Voices of Search Podcast: Detailed Summary of "Should SEOs Care About PR & Marketing?"

Release Date: January 9, 2025
Host: Jordan Cooney
Guest: Morty Oberstein, Founder at Unifi Brand Marketing and Head of SEO Brand at Wix

Introduction to the Episode

In the episode titled "Should SEOs Care About PR & Marketing?", host Jordan Cooney engages in a deep discussion with Morty Oberstein, a seasoned expert in brand strategy and SEO. The conversation explores the evolving landscape of Search Engine Optimization (SEO) and its intersection with Public Relations (PR) and marketing, especially in the age of Large Language Models (LLMs) and artificial intelligence (AI).

The Evolution of SEO: From Backlinks to Brand Presence

Jordan Cooney initiates the discussion by highlighting the shifting paradigm in SEO:

"We used to just think about it from an SEO perspective as just backlinks. Right? But it's so much more than that now." [02:37]

Morty emphasizes that the traditional focus on backlinks is no longer sufficient. With advancements in AI and changing consumer behaviors, building a robust online presence and brand reputation has become paramount. The role of SEO has expanded beyond technical tweaks to encompass broader marketing strategies.

Impact of Large Language Models (LLMs) and AI on SEO

The conversation delves into how LLMs like those developed by OpenAI are transforming SEO practices:

Morty Oberstein: "The LLM is basically everyone's... trying to reverse engineer the LLMs by giving it feedback." [03:38]

Both hosts agree that SEOs are now grappling with optimizing for AI-driven search mechanisms. Morty humorously critiques this approach:

"Idiotic approach to optimizing for an LLM." [04:05]

They discuss the transient nature of gains from such tactics, emphasizing that long-term strategies rooted in genuine brand presence are more sustainable.

Shifting Mindsets: From Optimization to Genuine Growth

Jordan raises a critical point about the necessity for SEOs to adopt a growth-oriented mindset:

"We're playing a game of an evolutionary technology that is rapidly changing and in some cases very soon, maybe self-adherent to updates." [04:30]

Morty concurs, stating that the real challenge lies in a mindset shift rather than just tactical or skill-based changes:

"It's a mindset shift, which is the hardest thing to do." [09:19]

They argue that SEOs must transition from chasing algorithm updates to fostering authentic connections with audiences, aligning SEO efforts with broader marketing and brand strategies.

The Role of Offline Marketing in Enhancing SEO

The discussion progresses to the significance of offline marketing:

Morty Oberstein: "If you go to a conference and you were just at Brighton SEO... it's real and it has... resonance is way bigger." [07:00]

Morty points out that offline interactions, such as networking at conferences, can significantly impact a brand's digital presence. These genuine connections often lead to more meaningful online engagements compared to purely digital interactions plagued by noise and superficiality.

Measuring the Synergy Between SEO, PR, and Marketing

A pivotal segment focuses on how to measure the effectiveness of integrated SEO and marketing strategies:

Jordan Cooney: "We're one of the few individuals in the marketing suite that has true, genuine technical skills... building an agent is not just simply like pushing a couple of buttons." [17:34]

Morty elaborates on the importance of qualitative metrics alongside traditional quantitative measures:

"Qualifying the reach and qualifying the engagement qualitatively also." [19:07]

They suggest that SEOs should leverage branded searches, engagement quality, and thematic analysis of search queries to gauge the impact of their integrated efforts effectively.

Leveraging SEO Skills for Enhanced Marketing and PR

Exploring the transferable skills SEOs possess, Morty underscores how these can be pivotal in marketing and PR:

Morty Oberstein: "SEOs are really good at refining and targeting, which is a huge part of this." [16:36]

Jordan adds that SEOs' technical expertise, such as proficiency in Python and understanding JavaScript, positions them uniquely to navigate the complexities of AI-driven discovery systems. This technical foundation is crucial for building sophisticated marketing strategies that complement SEO efforts.

The Future of SEO: Embracing Holistic Marketing Strategies

As the episode draws to a close, both hosts reflect on the necessity for SEOs to embrace a more holistic approach by integrating with marketing and PR:

Morty Oberstein: "The SEO is the ones that I see are doing the best job are the ones who are sitting with comms." [21:53]

Jordan agrees, emphasizing the need for unified strategies that marry communication efforts with performance metrics:

"Unifying... the two parts of the marketing picture, comms and the performance side." [22:38]

They advocate for SEOs to collaborate closely with communication teams to ensure that branding and SEO efforts are aligned, fostering a cohesive strategy that enhances overall brand presence and search performance.

Conclusion and Looking Ahead

The episode concludes with a teaser for the next installment:

"In part two of this interview, we'll discuss whether SEOs should pay more attention to offline marketing for SEO." [22:38]

Listeners are encouraged to connect with the hosts and guest through provided social media links and to subscribe for ongoing insights into SEO and content marketing.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Jordan Cooney: "We used to just think about it from an SEO perspective as just backlinks. Right? But it's so much more than that now." [02:37]

2. Morty Oberstein: "Idiotic approach to optimizing for an LLM." [04:05]

3. Jordan Cooney: "We're playing a game of an evolutionary technology that is rapidly changing and in some cases very soon, maybe self-adherent to updates." [04:30]

4. Morty Oberstein: "It's a mindset shift, which is the hardest thing to do." [09:19]

5. Morty Oberstein: "If you go to a conference and you were just at Brighton SEO... it's real and it has... resonance is way bigger." [07:00]

6. Jordan Cooney: "We're one of the few individuals in the marketing suite that has true, genuine technical skills... building an agent is not just simply like pushing a couple of buttons." [17:34]

7. Morty Oberstein: "SEOs are really good at refining and targeting, which is a huge part of this." [16:36]

8. Morty Oberstein: "The SEO is the ones that I see are doing the best job are the ones who are sitting with comms." [21:53]

Key Takeaways

• Integration of SEO with PR and Marketing: Modern SEO transcends traditional backlink strategies, requiring a blend with PR and marketing to build a strong brand presence.

• Adaptation to AI and LLMs: SEOs must evolve from manipulating search algorithms to fostering authentic connections that align with AI-driven search mechanisms.

• Emphasis on Offline Marketing: Genuine offline interactions can significantly enhance online brand presence, offering deeper resonance than purely digital efforts.

• Holistic Measurement Strategies: Incorporating both quantitative and qualitative metrics provides a more comprehensive understanding of SEO and marketing effectiveness.

• Leveraging Technical Skills: SEOs' technical prowess is invaluable in developing sophisticated, integrated marketing strategies that complement search performance.

This episode underscores the necessity for SEOs to adapt and integrate their strategies with broader marketing and PR efforts. By embracing a holistic approach and leveraging their unique technical skills, SEOs can significantly enhance their impact on brand presence and search performance in an increasingly complex digital landscape.