Should SEOs Pay More Attention To Offline Marketing For SEO?

Summary

Voices of Search Podcast Summary

Episode Title: Should SEOs Pay More Attention To Offline Marketing For SEO?
Release Date: January 10, 2025
Host: Jordan Cooney
Guest: Morty Overstein, Founder of Unify and Head of SEO Brand at Wix

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Introduction

In this insightful episode of the Voices of Search podcast, host Jordan Cooney engages in a compelling discussion with Morty Overstein about the interplay between offline marketing and search engine optimization (SEO). Building on their previous conversation about PR and marketing's impact on SEO, they delve deeper into whether SEOs should allocate more attention to offline marketing strategies and how these efforts can influence online presence and brand reputation.

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Defining Offline Marketing

Timestamp: [04:07]

Jordan initiates the conversation by seeking Morty's definition of offline marketing. Morty elaborates that offline marketing encompasses all non-digital promotional activities such as real-life events, partnerships, sponsorships, and community-building efforts. He provides examples like sponsoring sports teams (e.g., Wix's past sponsorship of the Yankees) and participating in local fairs or industry conferences.

Morty Overstein [04:07]: "Offline marketing is community building, real community building... anything that's not... some kind of channel other than your TV channel, like social media channel, device, whatever it is."

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The Nature and Impact of Offline Marketing

Timestamp: [06:29]

Jordan raises a valid concern about the perceived antiquity of certain offline marketing methods, such as newspaper placements and billboards, questioning their relevance in the digital age. Morty counters by emphasizing the unique emotional connections fostered through offline channels. He argues that activities like radio ads and TV sponsorships create a lasting presence and resonate differently compared to digital ads.

Morty Overstein [07:16]: "It's the power of radio... an emotional connection. It's different than seeing a banner ad or a promoted post on social media."

Morty also highlights the inherent presence of offline marketing, noting that unlike digital ads, which can feel artificial and transient, offline efforts like billboards maintain a constant, authentic presence in people's daily lives.

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Challenges in Measuring Offline Marketing

Timestamp: [09:25]

A significant hurdle in integrating offline marketing with SEO strategies is measurement. Jordan points out the difficulty in quantifying the ROI of offline activities, drawing parallels to personal relationships where intangible benefits aren't easily measured. Morty humorously illustrates this by comparing the inability to measure offline marketing's impact to trying to quantify affection in a marriage.

Jordan Cooney [10:21]: "How do you take the reality that offline is very difficult to measure and it's very difficult to relate to, especially when you come from a very performance-driven environment?"

Morty acknowledges this challenge but underscores that offline efforts contribute to brand mentions, backlinks, site visits, and brand searches, all of which positively influence SEO.

Morty Overstein [12:23]: "Offline things will produce mentions, links, site visits, navigational searches, brand searches."

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The Incremental Nature of Marketing Efforts

Timestamp: [16:48]

Jordan introduces the concept of the Marketing Efficiency Ratio (MER), a simple metric calculating revenue generated from marketing divided by marketing costs. This ratio encompasses all marketing activities, both online and offline, providing a holistic view of marketing's effectiveness. Morty agrees, emphasizing that marketing efforts, whether digital or offline, build incrementally over time, much like relationships.

Morty Overstein [17:46]: "Everything is incremental. All the important things are incremental and they're not isolated."

He further explains that offline activities sow the seeds for future online successes, contributing to long-term brand perception and connection.

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Integrating Offline Marketing with SEO Strategies

Timestamp: [20:44]

Jordan and Morty discuss how SEOs can initiate conversations about incorporating offline marketing within their organizations. Jordan suggests leveraging the Marketing Efficiency Ratio to present a unified view of marketing's impact, transcending traditional silos.

Morty advocates for honest dialogue about the symbiotic relationship between SEO and brand presence. He emphasizes that SEO does not operate in isolation but is inherently linked to broader brand-building activities.

Morty Overstein [25:31]: "Understanding that authority is built over years of other activities have nothing to do with SEO. If you want to rank for that keyword and get that traffic, you have to consider the brand presence."

Jordan concurs, highlighting the importance of moving beyond performance-only metrics to appreciate the cumulative value of offline marketing efforts.

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Conclusion and Key Takeaways

Timestamp: [25:45]

As the episode concludes, Jordan and Morty reiterate the importance of integrating offline marketing with SEO strategies to foster sustainable growth and brand reputation. They encourage SEOs to advocate for a more holistic approach within their organizations, emphasizing that offline efforts significantly contribute to online success.

Morty Overstein [25:31]: "SEO is part of understanding the brand presence... It all contributes to how we are perceived and ultimately how we perform online."

Jordan summarizes the discussion by underscoring the need for SEOs to broaden their perspectives and collaborate across marketing channels to enhance overall effectiveness.

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Notable Quotes

• Morty Overstein [07:16]: "It's the power of radio... an emotional connection. It's different than seeing a banner ad or a promoted post on social media."
• Jordan Cooney [10:21]: "How do you take the reality that offline is very difficult to measure and it's very difficult to relate to, especially when you come from a very performance-driven environment?"
• Morty Overstein [17:46]: "Everything is incremental. All the important things are incremental and they're not isolated."
• Morty Overstein [25:31]: "SEO is part of understanding the brand presence... It all contributes to how we are perceived and ultimately how we perform online."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Voices of Search offers a profound exploration of the often-overlooked relationship between offline marketing and SEO. Morty Overstein provides valuable insights into how real-world brand-building activities can enhance online visibility and search performance. For SEOs looking to expand their strategic horizons, integrating offline marketing efforts is not just beneficial but essential for long-term success.

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For more insights and to connect with Morty Overstein, visit Unify Brand Marketing or find his LinkedIn profile in the show notes.

Transcript

[Podcast Announcer]

The Voices of Search Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com welcome to the Voices of Search Podcast. A member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network, ready to expedite your company's organic growth efforts. Sit back, relax and get ready for your daily dose of search engine optimization wisdom. Here's today's host of the Voices of.

[Jordan Cooney]

Search Podcast, Jordan Cooney hello SEOs and marketers. My name is Jordan Cooney from Pre Visible. Joining me today is Morty Overstein, who is the founder at Unify and Head of SEO Brand at wix. UNIFI is a brand strategy consultancy helping digital brands scale their online presence and brand reputation. Yesterday, Morty and I talked about SEOs and PR and marketing. Today we're going to continue our conversation by discussing should SEOs pay more attention to offline marketing.

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[Jordan Cooney]

Okay, here's my conversation with Morty Oberstein, the Head of SEO and Brand at WIX and founder at Unified Brand Marketing. Morty, welcome back to the Voice of Search Podcast.

[Morty Overstein]

Nice to be back again.

[Jordan Cooney]

So, diving into today's episode yesterday, first of all, we really covered an awesome topic which is PR and marketing, what it really means for SEO, but more even broadly speaking, how SEOs are going to be adapting to in this new world and facilitating the skills necessary to leverage things like PR and marketing to grow organic traffic. A real great episode for those SEOs who are truly thinking about how to redefine this industry and latch our great skills and capabilities into a broader audience of marketing and pr, which is absolutely critical to the future of growth for any of our companies and agencies. So please go back, listen to that episode. Morty definitely did an amazing job giving some insights and knowledge as to how we should think about that and really capture the right partners in organizations to continue to scale. But today we're broadening our conversation to offline marketing and what that means for SEO and why SEO should really give credence to offline marketing. Let's just start by giving a baseline foundation understanding of what we're talking about in terms of offline marketing. What does that mean to you as someone who comes from the branch side, as someone who comes from. Who's had experience in the other sides of marketing? Let's give a little bit of a baseline view as to what is offline marketing. What do we mean by that?

[Morty Overstein]

Yeah, it could be, you could define it in a lot of different ways. It could be like, you know, completely offline. Like you talk like in real life events in real life partnerships, sponsorships. You know, the WIX used to sponsor the Yankees, for example, which I was before my day, which I really upset about because we used to have like Mariano Rivera, like videos with him and what, there's no T shirts anymore, but you still watch egg. Like there's wicks in like the back of the. I think, by the way, I mentioned this on the, on the other yesterday's episode. TV is offline.

[Jordan Cooney]

Okay.

[Morty Overstein]

Right. Because TV is happening in my opinion. People will disagree with me, but TV is a. An actual activity that you're doing. You're watching tv. You're sitting down to watch tv.

[Jordan Cooney]

Sure.

[Morty Overstein]

Which is, I think, a little bit different than like sitting down and streaming, let's say Netflix. I know that's like a hard, a hard thing, but I'm going to make that like split. Right. I'm sitting down to watch a TV show. I'm sitting with my family around the couch. It's an offline event for me also, because a lot of the ads have to do with a lot of offline things.

[Jordan Cooney]

Sure.

[Morty Overstein]

That's just how I see it in my brain. Fine. Like you can agree or disagree, fine. But in general, offline marketing is, is community building, real community building. So you see a lot of like the local space, you know, local fairs, local, you know, get together, whatever it is. It could be any conferences in the SEO space. That's where you really see it happening. Going to a conference, sponsoring a conference, networking a conference, exhibiting at a conference, doing some whatever at a speaking at a conference, whatever it is, is an offline marketing opportunity. So anything that's not, I'll define this way. It's not anything that has to do with some kind of channel other than your TV channel, like social media channel, device, whatever it is. So like no display ad, no PPC, no YouTube ad, all of that out, gone? No. What we call digital marketing out.

[Jordan Cooney]

Yeah. I mean, I'm kind of curious to get your take on this because there's gotta be a belief that a lot of these offline investments, marketing investments, are quite antiquate things like, you know, placements in newspapers, getting a flyer in the mail, billboards for that for that matter. Right. I mean, even though many digital companies have invested quite aggressively in billboards or physical, you know, types of advertisement, you know, what are your, what are your takes on that very physical nature, you know, outside of the human relationship? One which is like things like conferences or events, stuff like that. What's your take on that?

[Morty Overstein]

Yeah, like first off, think things that are physical or things that occur. Which is why I'm defining like did like, you know, digital in a weird way. Like I would even include certain podcast advertisements as offline things you're doing when you're involved in a real life activity. Right. Which is, by the way, the power of radio. Like, I'm sitting, I'm driving in my car, I'm on the way home from work. You're getting me through this horrible traffic. Four hours. I have a connection to you now because of that. Like an actual emotional connection. It's real, it hits and it resonates in a different way than seeing a banner ad somewhere or seeing a promoted post on social media. It just resonates differently. It's, it's like when you meet. And I'm a big advocate of remote working, so I'm not crapping on remote working, but when you physically meet with somebody in a room, it feels different.

[Jordan Cooney]

Right, right.

[Morty Overstein]

It's the same thing, but like less so. Like, obviously a billboard doesn't have presence the way a human being has presence. Right. But it is present in your life. It's not artificial. It's. It's there. It's a thing in the background. Digital, to a certain extent, is artificial. And there's no way around that.

[Jordan Cooney]

Yeah, I mean, there's a. There's a CMO that we work with.

[Morty Overstein]

She.

[Jordan Cooney]

She always coins the difference of offline versus online marketing by the ability to stream or consume digitally and move at the same time.

[Morty Overstein]

Yeah.

[Jordan Cooney]

Which is kind of interesting. Right. Like, I mean, it basically takes into account, like, this mobile device. You know, none of you can see that I'm holding up my cell phone to Morty. But anyway, you know, it's this concept of, like, I can walk around and consume this ad from her vantage point. It's all about, like, the consumption value, which is the belief that, like, how I'm consuming this ad is very hard. If I'm walking and trying to make sure my kid doesn't get hit by a car or, like, chewing gum at the same time, which for, you know, almost 100% of Americans is almost an impossible task. So, like, you know, if you're trying to see an ad and chew gum at the same time, you're not consuming the content at its highest value.

[Morty Overstein]

Yeah.

[Jordan Cooney]

You know, versus other forms where you're not on the go and you physically have no choice but to consume its presence because it's right there with you. Like a human interaction or standing and reading a billboard.

[Morty Overstein]

Exactly. And by the way, it's not a new concept. Right. Podcasting ad is all about this. Or radio ads before podcasts were all about this. You're doing something else. You're listening to whatever show you're listening to while you're working, while you're in the car, whatever it is. And it's not the one time placement. It's that you hear an ad for Bath Fitters every day while listening to the Michael K. Show. I don't know, like, what the hell Bath Fitters actually is, is I know they install some kind of bath, and I know they advertise for the last five years on this sports radio podcast that I listen to every day. Right, but. So it's not a new concept.

[Jordan Cooney]

Yeah, it's not. It's not. And it's not that it's less or better or worse, but.

[Morty Overstein]

No, it's different.

[Jordan Cooney]

It is different. Right? It is different, and then the consumption is different. Right. To your point on the Bath Fitters, like, you probably had to hear that, like, 47 times before it really stuck in your head.

[Morty Overstein]

I've been listening for five years for, like, three hours a day.

[Jordan Cooney]

You're way past the Law of retention.

[Morty Overstein]

Yeah, I just want to know what it actually is, like, at this point, because, like, I want to know, but that's kind of the point. Like, how does bath fitters measure that?

[Jordan Cooney]

Right. That's exactly where I was going to go. Yeah, right.

[Morty Overstein]

How do they. How do they account for a freak like me who's been listening for five years in a completely different market? They don't service by market, but I know who they are.

[Jordan Cooney]

But isn't that the challenge, right? Isn't that the unique challenge here of like, offline? Like, that's always been like, the big question mark is like, how do you measure this? What's the importance of it? What's the quality of. I mean, here we are on this podcast talking about bath fitters, and I doubt that they're going to like, capture this as one of their media mentions and part of their advertising winning. They did not, by the way. By the way, they did not pay us for product placement for this podcast.

[Morty Overstein]

Well, they can't, because I don't know what exactly it is.

[Jordan Cooney]

Hey, I'd argue most people who do, who do advertisements for product placement don't actually know what the products are. But still, on a serious note here, I mean, how do you take that into account? How do you take the reality that offline is very difficult to measure and it's very difficult to relate to, especially when you come from a very performance driven environment? That, in my opinion, oftentimes is where SEO is. It's not always the case, but oftentimes where SEO is.

[Morty Overstein]

But that's sort of the problem of I can't measure that I shouldn't do it. I don't know who said that. Like, do you do that in your real life? If I can't measure it, I'm not going to do it. Like, I can't measure how much my wife is going to love me back. So I will not love my wife now.

[Jordan Cooney]

True. Fair enough.

[Morty Overstein]

See how well that goes for you, dude.

[Jordan Cooney]

Right? Not very well. Maybe there's a reason why divorce rates are so high. But anyway, this is not a therapy podcast.

[Morty Overstein]

What's the roi? And loving my children.

[Jordan Cooney]

You know, there is a fair point to that, which is, like, in real life, we don't measure everything we do, right? We don't measure all activity that happens in our everyday life. Although as humans, we've become much more attuned to that. I mean, like, I mean, Morty, you're old enough just like me to know an era where we did not count our steps right? Our parents when we were children didn't like, you know, wake up when we were eight and a half and go, you know what, you need to put something on your wrist so you can track every step that you take.

[Morty Overstein]

No, instead we measured avocado on literal weight watcher scales with a spring in it. Right, exactly.

[Jordan Cooney]

There we go. How much protein powder that we're getting into our shake this morning. So correct. That didn't happen when we were children, but we've evolved to that now as a human species and now we measure everything. But that's the thing, right? Like we've got become just persistently obsessed with measuring every activity, every event, every type of thing that occurs. And you know, when you think about offline, it's not the easiest thing to measure. And then, and then to boot. And I think that the real, the real challenge here is how do you connect that back to SEO?

[Morty Overstein]

Okay, so I feel like the connecting it back to the SEO part is the easier part. Right? Because the offline things will produce mentions, links, site visits, navigational searches, brand searches. It'll produce all that for you. Like people aren't googling, I don't know, not Nike. That's a bad example now, right? Hoka. Yeah, right. Because like, oh, they did great SEO. It's because like they have a great brand and like I just want to find their shoes.

[Jordan Cooney]

Fair enough.

[Morty Overstein]

And they get mentions and then now they're on all the listicles, which we love so much. Like the best shoes of 2025, which is the same list as the best shoes of 2024 and 2023 and 2022 and 1982 have hook on it now. Yeah, so like that's another brand mentioned, that's another link, that's another flight visit, another navigation. So I feel that part like you don't have to think that far to see how brand. You just have to be willing to think that far, see how offline will impact online. I think the performance thing is like much, much, much more difficult. But it's almost like, I don't know, like for lunch today, like I'm going to eat something healthy. What's the value in that? It's aggregate. Like the one meal, like if I had, like, if I had fried chicken instead, like it wouldn't kill me necessarily. I mean, maybe it would, I don't know.

[Jordan Cooney]

Eventually.

[Morty Overstein]

Yeah, eventually. Eventually though. Eventually it's all aggregate, right? So a lot of those kind of offline things are, or brand activities, you know, if they are online, are aggregate value. And that's a different way of thinking that's looking at like, okay, like what's the long term aggregate value of being perceived this way? Because you really, you're really looking at that point. You're looking for connection and perception. How are people perceiving me? And I hope they're perceiving me well. And they're perceiving me well enough to be, you know, I don't know what I'm looking for, like moved or stirred. Stirred, that's the word I'm looking for. Stirred. To talk about me now. But that's an aggregate value.

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[Morty Overstein]

I O.

[Jordan Cooney]

And so like the relationship here is one component, I think the insatiable appetite for SEOs to know that it's working is another challenge. So I'm with you. I'm full agreement. There is clear signals that this is happening, that there's activity here, right? But what I think is really the hard part is as a performance driven culture, in many occasions we've now trained ourselves to believe that this activity, this action that's happening must have an event. It must have a lead, a conversion, a sign up, a newsletter, something that then we can go back to our boss and say, I did good Job, Please pay me more. So I'm curious where we manage that, that, that throttle because I'm going to believe that you're going to say that this takes time. And I would agree that there's a time coefficient to this that doesn't necessarily equate to all these events sprinkling out of the air.

[Morty Overstein]

Yeah, it's okay. Just like you need to take, let's say part of your marketing offline, you also need to take part of your mind offline and think about like, I don't know, like my wife, I didn't establish a relationship with her in, in one day. Like, I didn't, I didn't like order her in the mail. There came my wife. I'm not not criticizing people who do that. That's what you want to do. That's fine. Yeah, but you slowly like micro moments, like a very small was like, okay, after day one, we now have this level of relationship. It micro moment, micro moment, micro moment, micro moment that build up and build up and built up over time. That's the way life works. And that's just a logical concept. So if you can't see that concept, that's your biggest problem. Everything is incremental. All the important things are incremental and they're not isolated. Like we look at things like, oh, create a page, optimize the page, get the keyword, get the traffic, isolated event. As if that page not relating to the other pages either, by the way. Like.

[Jordan Cooney]

Right, yeah.

[Morty Overstein]

Nothing is isolated, everything is incremental. Once you do that and then once you start talking about like, okay, like, and companies by the, forget SEO. Like companies in general have a really hard time, I feel is a very logical point. We have our content strategy, we have our SEO strategy, we have our marketing, we have this, we have that. Okay, but who the hell is we? Yeah, like who are you, like who are you talking about? Because everything you're doing premises that there's a you that has this strategy that is doing X, that is doing Y. Well, who's the you? And if you can't answer who the you is, then that's a huge problem.

[Jordan Cooney]

Yep. I mean there's, there's this concept here that, that we, we haven't really, you know, tethered yet. Which is this, this reality that the cross channel measurement is something that SEOs and search marketers have tried to really nail down for a long time. I'm not going to say that it's been really well measured or that there's an established best practice around Cross channel measurement. But then when you break the paradigm of it not being just a digital channel, quote unquote to how we started this episode, now we're going into this offline realm of how are we engaging with our brand, our services, our marketing. It really expands the viewpoint entirely. And I want to bring up this concept. As we were prepping for this episode, I mentioned to you this concept of marketing efficiency ratio, which is a very simple notion of just your revenue generated from marketing divided by the marketing costs that you have. So it's a very simple ratio that you can come up with and then you can baseline, but it takes into account all marketing events, right, Whether they be offline or online or otherwise. And it's such a simplistic yet incredibly powerful belief that all marketing combined can generate a set number of revenue or growth for the business. And it doesn't really sit down and, you know, try to really create its own silos of like, well, this is what SEO did and that's what offline did and that's what the paid search team did. Although that's naturally how we create our own tension. It just says, hey, this is how marketing did as a whole. This is the revenue we made, this is how much money we spent across everything. Ta da. Here's our ratio. Some contributed more to cost, some contributed more to traffic. That happens in a lot of business. SEO is one of the largest traffic sources for almost all businesses. Amazing. Hooray. But I think we've now come to realize that not all clicks are that useful. Now, what do we tell our CMOs? So to the question here, Maury, right, is like, how do we start to evolve our measurement systems, our belief systems, our working partnership systems to become a more effective contributor to not just marketing, but really what the beauty of the MER concept is. Marketing efficiency ratio to the overall revenue to the overall growth of a business.

[Morty Overstein]

It's a hard question, by the way, not just for SEOs, but for CMOs, because CMOs aren't so into this either, which is sort of the problem, right? And I'll say like, like, because like you can have like, let's say you're doing 10 different things and all together they produce those two values, the cost and the actual, the actual revenue. You can find like greater efficiency here. This thing is working better. This thing is not working as well. Like, doesn't mean that, you know, you don't dive in and figure it out. But it also, I think, I wonder what you think of this. It doesn't mean that or does mean I'm going to say next, if you know something is working, like, I know this is getting traction. I know people are into this. I know it has certain, like, vitality and vibrance to it and I can't pinpoint it. I'm not going to do it. Doesn't mean that either. It means okay. Like it means being okay with the fact that I'm going to spend money, I'm going to spend time on it. I don't know where exactly the value is because a lot of the time the things that you're doing aren't even planting seeds. They're just sowing the ground so that you can eventually plant the seed. And it's almost impossible to concretely measure that in any way, shape or form.

[Jordan Cooney]

Oh man, that is super powerful messaging. I actually think that that is one of the interesting concepts, the whole sowing the ground to plant the seed because we don't take that into account in a lot of our marketing. We're so performance based, which is what happens all the way on the other end. Right. After the 470th time that you've heard about Bath Fitters on a podcast, you may now need to. I'm not entirely sure what you're going to do, but maybe change the handle on your toilet. I'm not sure what it means.

[Morty Overstein]

Fit your bath. I need to fit my bath. It's like you want to take my. I imagine is I have a really like great bath that I like and I move apartments, let's say, and it doesn't fit anymore and I want to bring that old bath with me and they'll fit it into the new bathroom.

[Jordan Cooney]

I hope that that's the case. I have no idea.

[Morty Overstein]

I don't think it is, but that's how I imagine it. Bath Fitters.

[Jordan Cooney]

I mean, back onto this notion though, of offline or go ahead. Did you want to add something onto this point?

[Morty Overstein]

No, I wanted. I wanted to read a quote I like. I did thing with Kevin Indyk and Kevin wrote one pattern I continuously see with clients that underinvest in brand marketing is that performance channels become more expensive and less fruitful over time. The challenge, you know, Colin, this pattern creeps up slowly and is extremely hard to diagnose. So what happens is you'll see performance channels decrease. You'll like. I don't know. A good example might be Nike, for example, right? They're seeing their performance channels decrease and their brand also sucks right now at the same time. Or not as good as it used to be. I don't say it sucks, but it's not as good as it used to be. Now Nike is being smart and what they're doing is saying, okay, we realize we underinvested in brand and maybe we haven't set the right messaging over the past, I don't know, a year or two years. Whatever it is. That's not typical. What most brands will do is, oh, clicks are down, bring in the SEO, bring in the PPC person, and they'll just look at the performance aspects, but they won't diagnose the real issue, which is pre performance.

[Jordan Cooney]

That's right. And this is kind of where I want to go with my last question on this episode, which is, where do we as SEOs? So if you're talking to an audience of SEOs who are maybe five to 10 years into their career, we've been refining our skills, maybe we've elevated our skills now in terms of how we leverage AI and how we use our remit to secure traffic from not just SEO as it being just Google. So let's just say the reality is that we're finding a way to get at the table to have a conversation about offline and how SEO is part of that. How do we create that conversation? How do we start that conversation in our organizations? Because this is a very difficult conversation to have. I mean, any agency, consultancy, any in house SEO is going to have a real tough time knocking on someone's door and saying, hey, I want to talk to you about offline marketing. I'm the SEO guy over here. I sit in front of my computer computer for 47 hours a day. That's not going to go real well. So how do you start that conversation?

[Morty Overstein]

I, I wonder if it's having an honest conversation about SEO for a change, maybe. Which meaning to say that it's not like I spin out a page, I optimize it and I get ranking. Like, doesn't happen in a vacuum. It happens because, like, there's a brand presence. Like, oh, Google loves big brands. It's like big brands have a big presence and, and instead of trying to like silo SEO, and here's my mystical SEO magic that I'm going to do for you. It's really understanding. Like, yeah, you're talking about eat. Like, authority is built over years of other activities have nothing to do with SEO. So if you want to rank for that keyword and you want to get that traffic, I'm going to tell you, and maybe it's like an uncomfortable position for a lot of SEOs to be. I can't do that. You can do that, and then I can. Then I can do my thing to make it actually happen.

[Jordan Cooney]

That's a great place for us to wrap up this episode of the Voice of the Search Podcast. Huge thank you to Morty from WIX and Unified Brand Marketing for joining us. If you'd like to get in touch with Morty, you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes or visit his company website, unifi brand marketing.com okay, thanks to Jordan Cooney.

[Ben Jschab]

The founder of Pre Visible. If you'd like to get in touch with Jordan, you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes. You can contact him on Twitter. His handle is J.T. cooney. That's J T K O E N E. Or you can visit his company's website, which is Previsible IO that's P R E V I S I B L e dot com and a special.

[Ahrefs Sponsor]

Thanks to Ahrefs for sponsoring this podcast. Monitoring your website used to require multiple expensive tools, but that's not the case anymore. Thanks to Ahrefs, because they just launched their Ahrefs Webmaster Tools product, which monitors your SEO health, helps you keep track of your backlinks, and gives you the insight into what keywords are performing for free. So check out Ahrefs webmaster [e-mail] that's Ahrefs a h r e f s.comAWT.

[Ben Jschab]

Just one more link in our show notes I'd like to tell you about. If you didn't have a chance to take notes while you were listening to this podcast, head over to voicesofsearch.com, where we have summaries of all of our episodes and contact information for our guests. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter, and you can even send us your topic suggestions or your marketing questions, which we'll answer live on our show. Of course, you can always reach out on social media. Our handle is voicesofsearch on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or you can contact me directly. My handle is Ben Jschab B E N J S H A B and if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of SEO and content marketing insights in your podcast feed. We're going to publish an episode every day during the work week, so hit that subscribe button in your podcast app and we'll be back in your feed tomorrow morning. All right, that's it for today. But until next time, remember the answers.

[Ahrefs Sponsor]

Are always in the data.