Successfully Localizing International SEO Content

Summary

Summary of "Successfully Localizing International SEO Content" Episode – Voices of Search Podcast

Release Date: January 13, 2025

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Successfully Localizing International SEO Content" from the Voices of Search podcast, host Jordan Cooney engages in a comprehensive discussion with Tony Pataki, the Director of SEO and Marketing Performance at Procore Technologies. The conversation delves into the multifaceted world of international SEO, emphasizing the critical role of localization beyond mere translation to ensure content resonates with diverse global audiences.

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1. Understanding Localization in International SEO

Timestamp: [03:06]

Jordan Cooney initiates the discussion by seeking Tony Pataki's definition and perspective on localizing international SEO content. Tony clarifies that localization encompasses more than just translating text; it involves adapting the entire user experience to align with the cultural and regional nuances of the target audience.

Tony Pataki ([03:26]): "Localizing the full experience depending on the different cultures and countries you're targeting."

He emphasizes that the goal of international SEO is not just to generate traffic but to attract the right kind of traffic that engages and converts effectively within each specific market.

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2. Initiating the Localization Process

Timestamp: [05:33]

Jordan poses a critical question on how to kickstart the localization process for an English-based website that's already performing well in SEO. Tony advises leveraging SEO tools to analyze which countries the content is already ranking in organically. This initial analysis helps identify markets where the content is performing better than expected, serving as a foundation for targeted localization efforts.

Tony Pataki ([06:06]): "Target the keywords you're already doing quite well at. That would be the first step I would take in this process."

He suggests focusing on these high-performing regions first, using them as benchmarks to develop tailored content strategies that cater to local preferences and search behaviors.

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3. Technical Considerations for International SEO

Timestamp: [08:03]

The conversation shifts to the technical aspects essential for successful international SEO. Tony outlines the decision between using country-specific top-level domains (ccTLDs) versus subdirectories. While ccTLDs can signal geographic targeting effectively, Tony expresses a preference for subdirectories due to their manageability, especially for companies dealing with multiple markets.

Tony Pataki ([08:03]): "Managing the technical SEO for international SEO is especially when you start building a lot of content."

He highlights the complexity of managing hreflang tags—a critical component for indicating language and regional targeting to search engines—and stresses the importance of a well-thought-out technical plan to prevent issues like incorrect redirections or content cannibalization across different regions.

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4. Content Strategy and Localization

Timestamp: [14:37]

Post a brief sponsor segment, Jordan delves deeper into content strategy. Tony advises that companies should prioritize localizing bottom-of-funnel content, such as solution and product pages, as these are pivotal for conversions. Starting with these pages facilitates a more seamless internal linking structure and ensures that high-intent users receive relevant, localized content.

Tony Pataki ([15:03]): "Start with bottom of the funnel, work your way up."

He underscores the necessity of engaging local writers or experts who understand the cultural context, ensuring that the content not only translates linguistically but also culturally resonates with the target audience.

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5. Building Trust with Local Audiences

Timestamp: [19:22]

Tony elaborates on the significance of building trust with international consumers, particularly in regions like Europe where users are more meticulous about online security and privacy. He points out that elements such as privacy policies, terms and conditions, and clear CTAs (Calls to Action) must be meticulously localized to meet local standards and expectations.

Tony Pataki ([19:22]): "All parts of your site needs to be tip top shape and really paid attention to."

He emphasizes that trust signals like social proof, localized testimonials, and transparent communication channels are crucial in converting visitors into customers, especially in high-risk industries like cybersecurity.

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6. Case Study: Relevance of Imagery

Timestamp: [16:18] – [17:40]

Tony shares an insightful case study illustrating the impact of culturally relevant imagery on user engagement. He recounts an instance where an open-concept kitchen image performed exceptionally well in the US but failed to resonate with European audiences, who prefer more traditional kitchen layouts.

Tony Pataki ([17:40]): "If the image doesn't relate to me, I don't know you as a company. This is my first time seeing you. That's it. Our relationship is over."

This example underscores the importance of visual elements in localization, demonstrating that even seemingly minor details like kitchen design can significantly influence user perception and engagement.

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7. Adapting Measurements and Standards

Timestamp: [18:20] – [18:46]

Jordan adds to the discussion by highlighting the need to adapt measurements and standards to local norms, citing a project where American customers needed product dimensions in feet instead of meters to comprehend the size effectively.

Jordan Cooney ([18:46]): "The only way you're going to get away with this is if you actually tell Americans that this is comparable to a 10 by 10 foot product."

Tony concurs, emphasizing that failing to adjust such details can lead to confusion and deter potential customers who may not understand or trust the metrics provided.

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8. Key Factors for Ranking and Trust

Timestamp: [19:22]

Wrapping up the content discussion, Tony identifies the most critical factors for creating trust and improving rankings in new markets:

1. User Engagement and Experience: Ensuring that users have a seamless and satisfying experience from entry to conversion.
2. Core Web Vitals and Server Speed: Maintaining optimal site performance to enhance user experience and search rankings.
3. Localized Content and Imagery: Tailoring written and visual content to align with local cultural preferences.
4. Trust Signals: Incorporating localized privacy policies, terms, and social proof to build credibility.
5. CTAs Adaptation: Customizing Calls to Action to fit cultural communication styles, making them more effective.

Tony Pataki ([19:22]): "Your CTAs can't be the same thing as you have in the U.S. ... guide them to try our product rather than get our product."

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Conclusion and Future Discussions

As the episode concludes, Jordan and Tony summarize the essential elements of successful international SEO: strategic localization, technical precision, and building trust through culturally resonant content and user experiences. They tease the next episode, which will explore the power of effective topical authority in SEO, promising continued insights for listeners aiming to excel in global markets.

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Notable Quotes

• Tony Pataki ([03:26]): "Localizing the full experience depending on the different cultures and countries you're targeting."
• Tony Pataki ([06:06]): "Target the keywords you're already doing quite well at. That would be the first step I would take in this process."
• Tony Pataki ([08:03]): "Managing the technical SEO for international SEO is especially when you start building a lot of content."
• Tony Pataki ([15:03]): "Start with bottom of the funnel, work your way up."
• Tony Pataki ([17:40]): "If the image doesn't relate to me, I don't know you as a company. This is my first time seeing you. That's it. Our relationship is over."
• Tony Pataki ([19:22]): "All parts of your site needs to be tip top shape and really paid attention to."
• Tony Pataki ([19:22]): "Your CTAs can't be the same thing as you have in the U.S.... guide them to try our product rather than get our product."

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Closing Remarks

This episode offers a wealth of knowledge for SEO professionals and marketers aiming to expand their digital presence globally. By addressing both the strategic and technical aspects of localization, Jordan Cooney and Tony Pataki provide actionable insights to navigate the complexities of international SEO effectively. Listeners are encouraged to implement these strategies to enhance their content’s relevance and performance across diverse markets.

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Transcript

[Bridget Hole]

The Voices of Search Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com Bridget Hole, CA Customer.

[Tony Pataki]

Service Number Highway Miles to the Gallon.

[Jordan Cooney]

Ford Focus Thailand Cave Rescue Operation what is Schema?

S Best wine bars in San Carlos, California Best Western Hotels how old is Ronaldo?

What happened with Big Brother?

[Tony Pataki]

What's a good engagement? How long before a wedding should I send out?

[Jordan Cooney]

How many games are in the first series?

Check email on other email clients Identify fonts from where to Find.

[Bridget Hole]

Welcome to the Voices of Search Podcast and I Hear Everything Production. In this podcast we'll share the news, knowledge and strategies you need to navigate the ever changing world of SEO. Ready to expedite your company's organic growth efforts. Sit back, relax and get ready for your daily dose of search engine optimization wisdom. Here's today's host of the Voices of Search podcast.

[Jordan Cooney]

Jordan Cooney hello SEOs, My name is Jordan Cooney from Pre Visible and this week we're going to discuss Mastering International and Topical Authority in SEO. Joining me is Tony Pataki, who is the Director of SEO and Marketing Performance at Procore Technologies, which provides cloud based construction software to clients across the globe. Today Tony and I are going to discuss successfully localizing international SEO content.

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Here'S my conversation with Tony Pataki, the Director of SEO and Marketing Performance at Procore Technologies. So before we get into the meat and potatoes of this topic, I'd like to understand what you mean by localizing international SEO content. How should our listeners generally think about this topic?

[Tony Pataki]

Yeah, as a company grows globally, all SEOs are thinking about, okay, now what's the best way of actually getting your content not just to rank in different countries, but also to perform well? I think that there's two parts to that. As SEO professionals, our goal is not just to generate traffic. Our goal is to generate the right type of traffic, but also making sure that that traffic has a good experience. So localizing content is not so much just getting the content ready or into the optimal space, but also localizing the full experience depending on the different cultures and countries you're targeting.

[Jordan Cooney]

Crazy. And when you think about this from a software perspective, this probably goes beyond just content planning. When we talk about content planning, it's the data around keywords and topics and then selecting them and then getting them into a calendar and writing content. It's beyond that. It sounds like when you talk about experience, it's much, much deeper than that. And tell us more about what that really should entail and mean to our listeners.

[Tony Pataki]

Yeah, I think a lot of people, when they first kind of approach globalization or doing international SEO, like the first thing that they're going to be thinking of, like, I'm going to take this content, translate it, get it published, and there I'm done. And that's generally not the ideal way of going about it. There's a lot of pitfalls, especially in the long term with that type of things. But even in the short term, when looking at your content, especially if you have educational content, right, because a lot of SaaS companies in general, you're going to have a lot of educational content where you're trying to help the users and guide them in their educational journey. So when it comes to localization, it's not so much just translating the words right? Like if you're looking at US versus UK and changing the Z's to S's and O's, ou's and that kind, it's making sure that the content is actually connecting with the user. And what I mean by this is that let's just say, here's a quick example of the US you write a content piece and let's just say you're talking about OSHA or you're talking about the US government, or you're giving examples of companies going through some struggles. It needs to be relevant to the audiences that you write for. Otherwise they're going to be turned off.

[Jordan Cooney]

Because OSHA is only in the US and those probably US based companies. And you want examples that are going to relate to the demographic that the language is being produced in for the content. So, Tony, give me a little bit of background on how we should get this process started. Let's just assume that we have an English based website that's been humming along from an SEO standpoint. We've got a functioning content plan in place. How do you get this localization effort going and where do you start?

[Tony Pataki]

I love this question. And before going into it, I would invite the audience, like take your domain put into your favorite SEO tool, especially if you have a lot of educational content put into your favorite SEO tool and take a look at what other countries your content's ranking for. You'll be kind of blown away. You'll be surprised of like how much of your content is ranking at page one in the uk, Perhaps Australia, definitely Canada. And I'll give you an idea of like, okay, well my content's already ranking in these places. So to your question, where do you start? That's one of the things I do like to look at because when it comes down to it is like you have this content, you know, it's working with your audience here in the us you want to start targeting content globally. And we're going to take UK now, for example. You want to target content in the UK that you know that people there are looking for as well. Right. So there's a keyword research aspect, is there? So you already have content that's probably already ranking there. That's a good place to start. If you're on page one now, you can start taking that content and actually now localizing not just the content but the experience to those users because it's going to be different. You don't want to just put the same exact experience and content in different countries as you have in the U.S. it's amazing how different things are going from one country to another. Especially when you're looking at Europe and then also going out into like Australia and the east as well. Things differ quite a lot. So target the keywords you're already doing quite well at. That would be the first step I would take in this process.

[Jordan Cooney]

So as you identify these opportunities. Right. Like one of the things that is dawning on me as we're talking about this is that like, in order for this to be effective in different markets, you have to build the plumbing for this. Right. I'm sure you're going to agree with this, Tony. Like the technical international SEO efforts is probably an entire episode, maybe like another 10 episodes. But just give us like the quick lay the land. What do you have to have in place from a technical standpoint in order for any, any of these content topics to really be relevant, useful.

[Tony Pataki]

Right, okay. So, yeah, from a technical SEO perspective, I'll just quickly go through that in that, you know, of course you could do. I think the big question people will have of like, well, where should I have it on my site? Right, you're going to need to separate it out because you want to separate out the experience as well for your UK audience, your German audience, your Australian or China, whatever countries you're going after. So you can either go, right, cctlds or subdirectory. Those are the two popular ones now, cctlds, you're kind of like starting over. You're managing multiple sites. I'm a big fan of doing the subdirectory method, but getting those cctlds across the world and redirecting them, yeah, you definitely want to do that. A lot of countries still search for like, if they're looking for Procore, they'll put in.co.uk or they're putting whatever your website is, they'll put in their, their country code at the end. So once you have things separated within your website setting up, you know, you're planning for the hreflang tag management and that's the tricky part. That's the big. And that it takes a lot of effort. It takes a lot of work. Managing the technical SEO for international SEO is especially when you start building a lot of content, when you have thousands and thousands and thousands of content and then guess what? Someone redirects one thing or this one, and it's all mapped out. Now you have to redo all those hreflang tags. It gets messy real quick. So you need to think ahead of time. How are you going to manage all those URLs and all those hreflang tags? And once you have that technical SEO kind of like plan written down, the content calendar that you're going to be building is going to be a lot easier. You're going to start realizing like, oh, it makes sense to tackle these same topics at the same time because they're all going to be Connected rather than having totally unique content calendars across the world because it gets messy real fast.

[Jordan Cooney]

That's great. I think one of the interesting things there about the technical piece is that it's not just like a one and done thing thing. Doesn't matter how small your website is, if you're going to do international effectively, you're building out the whole experience, starting with, you know, whether you're going to have country TLDs or directory to managing Hreflang, but then even more universally, like what that experience needs to be in that market and do you have all the experiences that you may have in your primary market? Right. That's a tricky thing that requires management. But moving back into the content piece of this conversation, Tony, you've had a lot of experience working in a variety of different places, so international isn't something that you did for the first time here at Procore. It is an expertise in how you manage SEO that you have to develop over time. I'm curious to get your perspective and your insights on how to think about the content investments for international and specifically, like, whether it's in software where you're talking about like solution pages, product pages versus editorial and top of funnel pages, or maybe more in like a directory type site. Do you have to build a universal set of pages in terms of the experience? Like where the funnel might be, like how a user might like sign up or how a user might purchase something versus the informational pages that might attract a user to the page? Right, like, and those are like vastly different components of the websites and they require their own set of thinking in terms of localization. And so I'm kind of interested to get your view on that and how you should organize your thoughts depending on the vertical your business might be in.

[Tony Pataki]

I love this question because I feel like each one of those things you just brought up could be its own podcast, for example, how do you manage solution pages globally and that experience, and you know how I was saying, like localizing the experience is so important. Actually, before I go off on a tangent, I want to answer your question more directly of like, planning for when it comes to developing your global strategy is such a critical element of this because there's a lot of things that you can run into later on that you didn't think about. So you need to think two steps, three steps ahead of when you're creating your content calendar, when you're creating your israflame tag mapping, when you're creating your overall SEO strategy. And you also need to be thinking from, you know, like, let's just say you have cctlds. I didn't touch on this, but I'm going to touch on this right now. Let's just say you do have separate domains and this is less of an issue today because of CDNs. But sometimes what happens is like when you have CCTLDs or on separate servers, you want to make sure that that server in that country outperforms any other country. So this is very common, especially with US Canada, us, uk, US content. You might have a UK cctld and you have your HFLAME task set up and you're like, oh, I'm killing it. Then you start looking at the rankings like why is my US content outranking my UK content? There's a chance that the servers of your UK site is slower than the ones that are in the us. So if you have things on separate servers, you have to continue to think about those things and audit that to make sure that the server speeds and the experience is the best for that user so that your.com doesn't dominate. It happens all the time. I see it all the time. So that's one thing. From a technical standpoint, you got to really think ahead and you need to continually audit things. Now, going into the content, where should we start?

[Jordan Cooney]

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I'd love to know what your perspective is. And maybe we start like with software and then maybe work our way to other verticals. But it's. I actually think this is the most daunting element as an SEO is like, where do you start and what's the best investment? Right. Because the business might want to start with a certain area, the company might want to do something, but that might not actually do anything from an SEO standpoint. I'd love your perspective on that.

[Tony Pataki]

I like this. Let's just say we're entering a new country. I used to work for a cybersecurity firm and we were in like 47 different countries and it was like. And they had separate cctlds. It was like I was dropped into this situation and I was like, okay, well, let's manage this. It's going to be tricky. And I would say that when you're kind of like moving into new territory, I always like to start with bottom of the funnel, work your way up. It's usually. It's easier to internal link that way as well. And also just like, you kind of have a better thought process of, like, what goes where and how, like what the overall site structure and hierarchy is like. So starting with your solution, Product pages is going to be number one. Now, what we did there, what we did a lot there was we did a lot of usability testing. And that's why, like, localizing the experience is so important. So, one, you get your content, you get the written content localized. Now, what does that mean? The ideal method is having a local writer, a local expert take your content and turn it into the local content. Someone who is there, they know the culture and everything else. And I can't stress that enough. And then once you have the content down, you're not ready, not done. The next piece are the images. And people usually forget that one. And I want to share a story, if that's all right.

[Jordan Cooney]

Please. Yeah, give us a story.

[Tony Pataki]

It's not like two totally different worlds looking. This is like vers US versus Europe, because we got this feedback from a few different countries. So we were doing a lot of usability testing. And I'm a big fan of getting SEO and usability testing. Yeah, get that connected. Because I can argue today that 99.9% of the SEO ranking factors are all directly related to ux. Right. So we had this image that's on the homepage and it was There's a woman sitting in the kitchen at a kitchen table. She had her laptop open and you know, in the background you could see the kitchen, you can see the living room as well, like this open concept thing. And the she had someone right behind her with like basically her husband who's like looking over her shoulder and like looking at the screen of what she's pointing at. Now in the US this content did great. In Europe, not so great. And we're like, what's going on here? So we did usability tests and if the audience is wondering, it's like, well, what could it be? Well, the image had an open concept kitchen. In Europe, people don't have open concept kitchens. Especially back then, everyone's got doors on their kitchens. They're like, it's open concept kitchen. So when I came here, I'm like, this doesn't relate to me. And those who haven't done international SEO, Europeans and a lot of different European countries are very risk averse when it comes to buying, especially when it comes to cybersecurity. Off. Sure.

[Jordan Cooney]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Tony Pataki]

Perceived risk is super high, so buying effort is huge. So you're going to be Europeans in general research a lot so they don't make a mistake, they don't want to take the risk. So it doesn't take too much to set someone off. Just like, you know when you get like a text message or an email, like, hey, I have this big opportunity and you find just one spelling mistake in it, you automatically think to yourself, this is scam. Right? Like that's helpless sign. It doesn't take too much to get someone not to trust you. And same thing there, like in Image. If it doesn't relate to me, I don't know you as a company. This is my first time seeing you. That's it. Our relationship is over. I'm going to the next person, right? So imagery is the next part.

[Jordan Cooney]

It's 100% part of the journey. I mean, I remember a project we worked on where we were dealing with a European company moving into the US market and everything was in meters and they were planning on selling it as such in the US market. And I was like, the only way you're going to get away with this is if you actually tell Americans that this is comparable to a 10 by 10 foot product. Because otherwise they're never going to know. Like, nobody here is going to understand what this is.

[Tony Pataki]

That's exactly right. They're going to be going to Google like, what is this meter thing in feet? Yeah, yeah.

[Jordan Cooney]

I mean they're not going to buy.

[Tony Pataki]

Right?

[Jordan Cooney]

Like, I mean it's an E commerce business. You got to get the person to trust you to your point. And I think that's a great place for us to ask my last question here, which is in your experience and in your work around localization, translation and developing out these experiences that are effective for SEO in new markets, what are the biggest factors, what are the most important ranking signals to creating that trust with consumers?

[Tony Pataki]

So the trust issue with the users, and we'll start there, the user engagement and trust. Going back to what I was saying before of like SEOs, you're not responsible just for the traffic, you're also responsible for the overall quality of that traffic, but also the quality of the experience that they have. Right? Because like when you bring in traffic and no one converts well, you didn't really help anything. So you really want to pay attention to like all those things of like what is this consumer going through from entrance to the website? Right. We pay attention to things like core web vitals, server speeds and all these other things and making sure things load fast, which is part of the experience. But the full experience from very beginning to the very end is going to be important and even things you might normally think of. So here's another thing if I would ask your audience, especially those who do have presences in European countries. One thing I noticed, especially when I was in the cybersecurity space, is it's interesting to see how much more people in Europe look at your privacy policy in terms of condition pages. They really dig in, like, who is this company? Who are they? Can I trust them? So that's what I say, like all parts of your site needs to be tip top shape and really paid attention to because I think a lot of companies out there do. It's like set it and forget it. Here's parts of policy, terms and conditions, put it out there, boom, done, right? But even those parts need to be, but even like when you're looking at, so you have your content, let's just say you did a great job vocalizing it with someone who's on the ground, their boots on the ground there, who knows the culture, who's expert in the subject, which is the ideal way of building that content. Images are all done perfect. Those are local images, your team went out and made them. That's the ideal way of doing it. And you have the images that are right for you, right for your audience, really. That's, that's what matters. Now then you have to ask your question. The then what? Right? Someone's there. Where are they going to go next? And that's a huge part, I think the next part that I think needs to be paid attention to. Your CTAs can't be the same thing as you have in the U.S. it's fascinating how saying something like get your ebook in the US versus get my ebook in a lot of places in South America, people connect with get my ebook rather than get your ebook because it's like they connect with the wording and stuff like that around that, but also just understanding different cultures of. They have different perception and they react differently. For CTAs where it's here, we kind of like are more demanding with our CTAs. We're telling you exactly what to do. And that's not polite and not as receptive in some other countries. So you have to guide them to try our product rather than get our product right. So it's those like, small little changes that people need to pay attention. And it does vary from country to country. I know I've been kind of like just saying Europe, but there's different countries will. Will react to different things in a very different matter. It's quite amazing. Even within Europe, it's like. And depends on your product as well. And that's the other thing. If your product is. Has a high perceived risk, right? The costs a lot. If it's something you have to subscribe to, if it's something with money, if it's something with cybersecurity, people are more likely to research a lot deeper into your site than if it was something like a $5, you know, product, whatever it might be low perceived risk. You're not going to be spending too much time. You know, you're going to. So it's important to really think about the next steps people take in that and also understand that, for example, getting social proof marketing in some countries is going to be way more important than others. Especially if you're in your country, right? If you're like a B2B company, we'll go back to cyber security. They want to see the social proof that's there. The companies you work with better be companies in that country because they're like, does my competitor here use you? Okay, now I can trust you. Like, that's like one step. And then other countries, like, they want to make sure they can talk to someone, right? Belgium, France, even Germany, they're like, they want to see, like, they want to get in touch with someone. Especially when it's like a high perceived risk item like cybersecurity. They want to is there someone behind this website or you know, I mean like they want to build that trust. So the journey starts. First touch to your website all the way until they buy and you got to pay attention to each piece.

[Jordan Cooney]

That's amazing. I think that's a great place for us to wrap up this episode of the Voice of Search Podcast. A big thank you to Tony Pataky, Director of SEO and Marketing Performance at Procore Technologies, for joining us in part two of this interview, which we'll publish tomorrow, Tony and I are going to discuss the power of effective topical authority. If you can't wait until our next episode and would like to learn more about Tony, you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes or visit his company's website, procore.com.

Okay, thanks to Jordan Cooney, the founder of Pre Visible. If you'd like to get in touch with Jordan, you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in our show notes. You can contact him on Twitter. His handle is J.T. cooney. That's J T K O E N E. Or you can visit his company's website, which is Previsible IO that's P R E V I S I B L E I O and a special thanks to Ahrefs for sponsoring this podcast. Monitoring your website used to require multiple expensive tools, but that's not the case anymore. Thanks to Ahrefs because they just launched their Ahrefs Webmaster Tools product which monitors your SEO health, helps you keep track of your backlinks, and gives you the insight into what keywords are performing for free. So check out Ahrefs webmaster [e-mail] that's Ahrefs a h r e f s.comAWT just one more link in our show notes I'd like to tell you about. If you didn't have a chance to take notes while you were listening to this podcast, head over to voicesofsearch.com, where we have summaries of all of our episodes and contact information for our guests. You can also subscribe to our weekly newsletter and you can even send us your topic suggestions or your marketing questions, which we'll answer live on our show. Of course, you can always reach out on social media. Our handle is voicesofsearch on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, or you can contact me directly. My handle is benjschapp B E N J S H A P and if you haven't subscribed yet, and you want a daily stream of SEO and content marketing insights in your podcast feed. We're going to publish an episode every day during the work week, so hit that subscribe button in your podcast app and we'll be back in your feed to tomorrow morning. All right, that's it for today. But until next time, remember, the answers are always in the data.