Podcast Summary: Voices of Search // The AEO, SEO & GEO Debate
Host: Jordan Cooney
Guest: Amy Jarenka, SEO Strategist at SEO Sustainable
Date: August 25, 2025
Episode Overview
In this episode, Jordan Cooney and Amy Jarenka discuss the evolving landscape of Search Engine Optimization (SEO), Answer Engine Optimization (AEO), and Generative Engine Optimization (GEO). With the proliferation of AI-powered discovery, zero-click searches, and changing user behaviors, they explore how digital marketers and SEOs should adapt strategies, content, measurement, and priorities to maximize search visibility and brand reach.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
The New Acronyms: SEO, AEO, & GEO
[03:54 - 06:34]
- SEO (10 Blue Links): Traditional SEO designed for classic SERPs that deliver organic traffic via clickable links.
- AEO (Answer Engine Optimization): Focused on getting brands and content into direct answers within LLMs (Large Language Models), voice search, and featured snippets. Measures visibility in conversations and Q&A experiences.
- GEO (Generative Engine Optimization): Targets visibility within AI-generated summaries and answers. Synonymous with brand exposure in generative outputs.
“SEO, I call that the 10 blue link SEO... AEO is more about answer engine optimization... GEO is just making sure – it’s more brand exposure... making sure you get in those generative outputs.” — Amy Jarenka [04:29]
Takeaway: SEOs must embrace new terminology and approaches, recognizing their flexibility and overlap while resisting the urge to define rigid boundaries.
Skills & Expectations Across SEO, AEO, and GEO
[06:35 - 09:14]
- Overlap in Skills: Many underlying skills and tools remain relevant but require adaptation in application.
- Changed Outcomes: Unlike SEO, AEO and GEO might not yield direct clicks but rather increase awareness or influence in AI-driven experiences.
- Measurement Complexity: Outputs differ—traffic/CTA tracking in SEO vs. brand mentions and inclusion in AI answers for AEO/GEO.
“Many of the same skills, many of the same tools... might work to be present or visible... but the outputs can be certainly different.” — Jordan Cooney [08:33]
Strategic Prioritization in a Blended World
[09:53 - 12:09]
- Budget & Tracking: It’s likely that companies will merge budgets for SEO, AEO, and GEO. The allocation of resources should be data-driven, reacting to trends in traffic/conversions from various LLMs.
- Responsive Strategy: Track where growth occurs (e.g. ChatGPT, Gemini) and prioritize optimization efforts there.
“It’s all about tracking... For your industry, what’s the growth? What are we seeing the growth on which LLMs?” — Amy Jarenka [11:09]
The Growing Role of Brand in AEO/GEO
[12:09 - 14:58]
- Brand Visibility as Off-Page SEO: Brand exposure in AI answers replaces traditional off-page metrics like backlinks.
- Content Shift: Generalized content is losing value; focus should shift to branded, product-centered content that reflects unique selling points and addresses buyer persona fears.
- Intent Precision: Detailed target personas (ICPs) are more important than ever.
“Generalized content is dead... content that’s based around your core pages, your homepage brand, and your product and services...” — Amy Jarenka [13:26]
Practical Content and Technical Tactics for AI-First Search
[15:05 - 20:42]
- Chunkability: Content must be structured so that each paragraph/chunk can stand alone—enabling LLMs to extract and display bite-sized information.
- Schema Markup: Intensify the use of schema for all applicable content types. Consider dedicated resources or tools for comprehensive schema implementation.
- Multimodality: Ensure dynamic content (charts, media) is accessible in HTML, not just as media files, for better parsing by bots.
- Echo Blocks & Semantic Triplets: Adopt advanced content structures (e.g. FAQ sections, precise entity relationships) for AI-friendliness.
“Chunkability is a big shift... AI bots and LLMs, they read it by chunk, passage, paragraph... every chunk needs to be able to live by itself.” — Amy Jarenka [17:27]
Measurement: Redefining KPIs in an AI-Driven World
[20:42 - 25:00]
- KPIs Beyond Clicks & Rankings: Success is moving from rankings and traffic to metrics that reflect brand visibility across LLMs.
- Brand-Focused Tracking: Shift KPI focus to homepage and key product/service pages where brand matters most.
- Granular Source Analysis: Track by organic source, especially as direct traffic may indicate users returning post-AI research.
- Client-Specific Metrics: Custom-tailor KPIs to business objectives and context (e.g., large corporations vs. local service providers).
“[We] can’t just track keyword ranked in organic traffic and then clicks... I’m going to have to start doing specialized... traffic and KPIs and metrics that tie back to... what we’ve decided on with the client.” — Amy Jarenka [21:39]
Resource Allocation: If You Could Only Track One Metric
[23:17 - 25:00]
- No One-Size-Fits-All: Keyword rankings still matter, especially for most of today's traffic, but growing segments may require AI-focused measurement.
- Context is Key: Metric choice should depend on client goals, available resources, and where meaningful conversions are coming from.
“If I only have to choose one... it depends, right?... If I have a client and I only have to choose one right now... it would definitely be on the goals of that company.” — Amy Jarenka [24:14]
The Modern SEO Playbook: Actions For Success
[25:00 - 28:52]
- Technical Foundations: Ensure all major bots (not just Google or Bing) can crawl, render, and index your content.
- Content Purpose Shift: Content is now for surfacing products/brands within AI answers—NOT simply inbound traffic from queries.
- Data-Driven Agility: Keep experimenting with different LLMs, monitor shifts in traffic patterns, and share insights with clients and stakeholders.
- Keyword Research Reframed: Use keyword research not just for content planning, but as a guide to understand the brand’s market and inform content clusters.
“We really need to make sure [the bots] can crawl the site... and then when we go from there... the content shift of how we’re looking at content and what is the purpose of that content...” — Amy Jarenka [25:56]
Evolving Tactics: From Planning to Execution
[28:21 - 31:49]
- Actionable Insight: Proactively communicate with clients about how you’re preparing for the AI shift—even if traffic hasn’t shifted drastically in their niche yet.
- Serp Feature Strategies: Tactics that worked for featured snippets can help with AI Overviews―monitor and optimize aggressively.
- Empirical Flexibility: With the search landscape changing almost daily, embrace ongoing testing while focusing on core principles: clarity, indexability, brand differentiation.
“…same way you would optimize for a featured snippet. We’re just doing it for an AI overview. And I have seen a drastic switch over.” — Amy Jarenka [31:36]
Memorable Quotes
“New things need new language. When I’m explaining this not only to my own brain... but also... to clients and C-levels—they’re going to need different terms and know that I need to do different things.” — Amy Jarenka [04:29]
“Chunkability is a big way. It’s a big shift of the difference between how like traditional search engines... write an entire page and then rank that page, where these AI bots and LLMs, they read by chunk.” — Amy Jarenka [17:27]
“It’s not going to be perfect and it’s going to be a lot less than we’ve ever had. But let’s do that.” — Amy Jarenka, on making the best of new and limited measurement options [26:59]
Notable Timestamps
- [03:54] – Definition and open discussion of SEO, AEO, GEO
- [06:35] – How the three disciplines intersect; skills and expectations
- [12:09] – Building brand exposure in the world of LLMs
- [15:05] – Practical content adaptations: chunkability, schema, technical enhancements
- [20:42] – Measurement and KPI challenges in the AI era
- [25:56] – Immediate action plan; technical and tactical priorities for SEOs
- [31:36] – Featured snippet strategies translate to AI Overviews
Summary
The digital search world is experiencing a historic evolution. Jordan and Amy urge SEOs and marketers to embrace fluid roles and innovative tactics. The focus should shift from classic keyword-driven strategies to nuanced, brand-first visibility within AI responses and generative experiences. Content must be highly structured, semantically rich, and formatted for AI consumption, while measurement systems pivot to new forms of visibility and brand awareness.
In an era where classic traffic and ranking metrics are losing exclusivity, the ability to adapt, experiment, and educate stakeholders is the true mark of a future-proofed search professional.