Summary3 min read

Podcast Summary: Voices of Search

Episode: The Evolution of Engagement Metrics Over the Next 18 Months

Date: September 18, 2025
Host: Tyson Stockton
Guest: Daniel Hurwitz, Informatica

Main Theme & Purpose

In this episode, host Tyson Stockton and guest Daniel Hurwitz explore how engagement metrics in SEO and content marketing are evolving, particularly as more user interactions happen within AI-driven experiences (like "AI mode" in Google). They discuss the increasing fragmentation of data, the challenges in measurement, and how strategies and reporting must adapt for the future.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Increased Fragmentation of Engagement Metrics

Daniel Hurwitz: Engagement data is becoming "more fragmented and less measurable" due to AI-driven experiences.
Current analytics tools do not capture user interactions within AI summaries or AI agents, making traditional tracking harder.

"I mean, the fact that we can't track metrics from AI overviews or AI mode in Google Search Console is honestly insane. So it's like we're just kind of flying a little blind."
(Daniel Hurwitz, 00:55)

The absence of granular data means marketers operate with limited visibility, especially regarding AI-generated content consumption.

2. The Challenge of Attribution in AI-Driven Environments

The guest raises concerns: How do we track the experience of an AI agent visiting a website? Are traditional user metrics still relevant?
There's an expectation that, for at least a year, uncertainty will persist about what can be measured and attributed.

"Are we going to get the same kind of user metrics that you would from a human user at a browser? I mean, I don't know if that's answerable."
(Daniel Hurwitz, 01:10)

Predicts a shift toward an "impression model" with less clear-cut attribution than previously possible.

3. Google’s Traditional Engagement Metrics vs. AI Mode

Tyson Stockton: Historically, Google has used direct signals from users' website behavior (via Nav Boost and similar signals) to judge ranking appropriateness.
He questions how Google will now measure "engagement" when much of the user experience is completed within search surfaces (SERPs) or AI-generated answers, rather than on the actual website.

"If that experience is happening within the actual SERP page or AI mode, are they measuring like, well, how long did they stay on the prompt answer, or how well it satisfied?"
(Tyson Stockton, 01:38)

Concludes that SEOs must adapt their understanding of user metrics and reporting frameworks.

4. AI’s "Black Box" Effect and Data Transparency

As understanding improves, the system seems to become more opaque.
AI features like 'fan out query'—where Google issues multiple background queries to generate an answer—further obscure what's being measured.

"Just as we were able to pull back the curtain, there's another black box is how it feels."
(Daniel Hurwitz, 02:26)

There's skepticism that Google will ever provide detailed data on these new types of interactions to SEOs.

Memorable Quotes

"I think it's just going to be more fragmented and less measurable. I mean, it already is."
(Daniel Hurwitz, 00:55)
"We're going to move more toward this kind of impression model with less clear attribution metrics."
(Daniel Hurwitz, 01:19)
"It's just like, just as we were able to pull back the curtain, there's another black box is how it feels."
(Daniel Hurwitz, 02:26)
"Are they measuring like, well, how long did they stay on the prompt answer or how well it satisfied?"
(Tyson Stockton, 01:38)

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:43 – The Big Question: How will engagement metrics evolve with increasing AI-mode experiences?
00:55 – Fragmented and Less Measurable Metrics: Daniel outlines current and future tracking challenges.
01:38 – Google's Traditional vs. New Engagement Models: Tyson compares old and emerging measurement paradigms.
02:26 – Another Black Box: Daniel voices concerns about AI-driven opacity and data access.

Conclusion

This episode underscores a major shift for SEOs and marketers: With the rise of AI-powered search and information delivery, engagement metrics are becoming more fragmented, less transparent, and harder to attribute. SEOs must rethink traditional approaches to data collection and reporting, expecting the field to further fragment and for familiar metrics to evolve over the next 18 months.

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Transcript6 lines

[00:00]
A
The Voices of Search Podcast is a proud member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network. Looking to launch or scale your podcast, I Hear Everything delivers podcast production, growth and monetization solutions that transform your words into profit. Ready to give your brand a voice? Then visit iheareverything.com welcome to the Voices of Search Podcast. A member of the I Hear Everything Podcast Network, ready to expedite your company's organic growth efforts. Sit back, relax, and get ready for your daily dose of search engine optimization wisdom. Here's today's host of the Voices of Search podcast, Tyson Stockton.
[00:43]
B
All right, next question is going to be crystal ball. How will engagement metrics evolve over the next 18 months as more and more of the experience is occurring within areas like AI mode?
[00:55]
C
Yeah, I think it's just going to be more fragmented and less measurable. I mean, it already is. I mean, the fact that we can't track metrics from AI overviews or AI mode in Google search Console is honestly insane. So it's like we're just kind of flying a little blind. I think it's going to be more so. I mean, how do we track the experience of an AI agent that's going to a website? Is that going to be something that's possible? Are we going to get the same kind of user metrics that you would from a human user at a browser? I mean, I don't know if that's answerable. I think we'll have a better idea in a year. But I would say my prediction is, yeah, things are just going to be more fragmented. We're going to move more toward this kind of impression model with less clear attribution metrics.
[01:39]
B
Absolutely. And this is one that I'm really particularly interested in because I feel like if you look at the elements within Nav Boost and how Google's been looking at engagement metrics, it's in a very traditional sense. And so they're like, okay, what did the user do once they went to this website to evaluate? Did we rank these appropriately? Well, now, if that experience is happening within the actual SERP page or AI mode, are they measuring like, well, how long did they stay on the prompt answer of how well it's satisfied? And so I do feel like we're at this kind of shifting point of where we're going to have to similarly think about user metrics a bit different than how we look at our standard kind of reporting in that front.
[02:26]
C
Definitely. It's just like, just as we were able to pull back the curtain, there's another black box is how it feels. And yet things like the fan out query in AI mode where it's running a bunch of synthetic queries where you don't even know what those queries are and there's no way to track that. And I sort of doubt that Google will give that level of data to SEOs 100%.
[02:52]
B
Well, with that, that's going to wrap up this episode of the Voice of Search podcast. Thanks again to Daniel Hurwitz from Informatica for joining us. If you'd like to contact Daniel, you can find a link to his LinkedIn profile in the show Notes, or you can go on and visit his company's website@informatica.com if you haven't subscribed yet and you want a daily stream of SEO and content marketing knowledge in your podcast feed, hit that subscribe button in your podcast app or on YouTube and we'll be back in your feed in the following day. That's all for today. Thanks for stopping by and we'll see you in the next episode.