WWDTM: GWAR, Gretchen Whitmer, Josh Gad, Kara Jackson, and Amber Maykut

Summary

Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! Episode Summary

Title: Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me!
Host: Peter Sagal
Guests: GWAR members Mike Bishop and Mike Dirks, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, Actor Josh Gad, Taxidermist Amber Maykut, Singer-Songwriter Kara Jackson
Release Date: May 17, 2025

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Josh Gad: From Olaf to Memoir

Peter Sagal opens the episode with a heartfelt conversation with actor Josh Gad, best known for voicing Olaf the Snowman in Disney's Frozen. Josh discusses his newly released memoir, "Gad We Trust," sharing insights into his multifaceted career and personal reflections.

Memoir Insights and Recognition:

• Josh Gad (02:00): "It was just sitting there and typing all the words was intimidating because I had to come up with them. And as it started to expand, it just felt like, okay, this may be a story worth telling."
• Peter Sagal (02:18): "What are you most recognized for?"
• Josh Gad (02:37): "I regret the voice of Olaf because it leads to children recognizing me everywhere. But I'm grateful so many love Olaf."

Behind the Scenes of Fame: Josh shares amusing anecdotes about being recognized in unexpected places, such as grocery stores, and the challenges of balancing fame with personal privacy. He humorously recounts an encounter with director David O. Russell, who failed to recognize him in his Olaf persona:

• Josh Gad (05:46): "David O. Russell, brilliant director... He didn't recognize any of them. I said, 'I'm Olaf,' and he was baffled."

Dreams Realized: Josh reminisces about his early aspirations to work at Disney, particularly his desire to host the Jungle Cruise. Years later, through perseverance, he fulfilled that dream:

• Josh Gad (07:54): "I got to live out my dream, really."

Interactive Quiz: Posh Lads: Josh participates in the "Posh Lads" quiz segment, answering questions about British traditions and posh anecdotes. His successes in the quiz highlight his quick wit and broad knowledge base.

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Amber Maykut: Taxidermy with a Celebrity Twist

Amber Maykut, known as the "Taxidermist to the Stars," shares her unique craft of anthropomorphic taxidermy, transforming deceased animals into lifelike, whimsical pieces that reflect human characteristics.

Crafting Unique Pieces:

• Amber Maykut (16:01): "A lot of what I do is called anthropomorphic taxidermy, so it's kind of giving life, human characteristics or activities to the taxidermy."

She describes creating a raccoon dressed as a cowboy for Justin Long and Kate Bosworth, emphasizing the blend of artistry and personal touch that makes her work stand out:

• Amber Maykut (16:51): "That one is probably one of my best sellers that went viral online."

Techniques and Materials: Amber delves into the meticulous process involved in creating anatomically correct models, highlighting the combination of taxidermy supplies, sculpting, and artistry required to bring her creations to life.

Interactive Quiz: They're Alive: Amber engages in the "They're Alive" quiz game, which focuses on humorous and bizarre incidents involving animals entering homes. Her accurate answers showcase her expertise in the field of taxidermy and animal behavior.

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Gretchen Whitmer: Michigan's Governor and Author

Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer joins the show to discuss her latest book, "True Gretsch," and delves into the personal stories behind her unique nicknames, including the affectionate moniker "Big Gretch."

Embracing Nicknames:

• Gretchen Whitmer (22:13): "Big Gretch, when it first came to be during the pandemic, I was not sure what to make of it. But now it's my favorite nickname."

She shares the origin of her nickname, bestowed by Detroit rapper G Mac, and its transformation into a symbol of her connection with the people of Detroit:

• Gretchen Whitmer (22:58): "They love you. This is a nice thing. Now it's my favorite nickname, Big Gretsch."

Personal Anecdotes: Gretchen recounts her challenging youth, including a high school incident that significantly impacted her trajectory:

• Gretchen Whitmer (24:35): "I was practicing my State of the State last year and I ran into one of the podiums. All my front teeth."

Interactive Quiz: Check Out These Not So Great Lakes: Governor Whitmer participates in a trivia game about minor bodies of water, impressively answering questions about peculiar anecdotes involving lakes and puddles. Her correct responses demonstrate her well-rounded knowledge and quick thinking.

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GWAR: The Extraterrestrial Heavy Metal Phenoms

Members Mike Bishop and Mike Dirks of the legendary shock rock band GWAR discuss their theatrical performances and elaborate costumes, providing a behind-the-scenes look at what makes their shows uniquely captivating.

Band Dynamics and Characters:

• Mike Dirks (34:22): "Originally I was Beefcake the Mighty, who was the bass player. Now I am the Berserker Blothar."

• Negeen (34:06): "We are extraterrestrial war gods banished to Earth for our crimes in outer space."

Unique Performances: They describe the extreme nature of their costumes and stage antics, noting the meticulous detail and creativity that set them apart from other heavy metal bands:

• Negeen (34:28): "These costumes are not just like Kiss, for example. We've got enormous headpieces and huge full-body costumes."

Interactive Quiz: GWAR Meet Jaguar: GWAR members tackle a quiz focused on Jaguars, both the animal and the NFL team, demonstrating their extensive knowledge and humor-filled camaraderie.

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Kara Jackson: From T-Ball to Poetry Laureate

Singer-songwriter Kara Jackson reflects on her journey from playing T-ball under Peter Sagal's coaching to becoming an acclaimed youth poet laureate. She discusses her music, including her hit song "Head Blues," and her experiences performing internationally.

Early Days and Inspirations: Kara fondly remembers her time on the T-ball team, highlighting the importance of supportive coaching and teamwork:

• Kara Jackson (43:09): "I was really good at T-ball, I've gotta say. I was just really tall."

Poetic Endeavors: As the third National Youth Poet Laureate, Kara shares her process of creating and reflecting on her early poems, balancing nostalgia with pride:

• Kara Jackson (44:05): "It's a chance for me to treat my younger self with care and appreciate what I was doing at that age."

Musical Achievements: Kara discusses her song "Head Blues," which humorously tackles past relationships, and its positive reception, even performing it for the US Ambassador in London:

• Kara Jackson (46:28): "I had to perform at the US Ambassador in London, and I did that song for the US Ambassador, and she was really cool with it."

Interactive Quiz: Yes Fun Party: Kara engages in a lively quiz about extravagant parties, demonstrating her sharp mind and playful spirit by correctly answering most questions.

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Conclusion

The episode of Wait Wait... Don't Tell Me! masterfully blends humor, trivia, and engaging conversations with a diverse lineup of guests. From the comedic anecdotes of Josh Gad to the artistic insights of Amber Maykut, the inspiring journey of Governor Gretchen Whitmer, the theatrical grandeur of GWAR, and the poetic talents of Kara Jackson, the show offers a rich tapestry of stories and personalities. Each segment is thoughtfully structured, providing listeners with laughter, knowledge, and a deeper appreciation for the multifaceted lives of the guests.

Notable Quotes:

• Josh Gad (02:37): "I will get recognized in like grocery stores just being like, hi, is milk over there?"
• Gretchen Whitmer (22:13): "This is a nice thing. Now it's my favorite nickname, Big Gretsch."
• Amber Maykut (16:51): "That one is probably one of my best sellers that went viral online."
• Mike Dirks (34:22): "Originally I was Beefcake the Mighty, who was the bass player. Now I am the Berserker Blothar."
• Kara Jackson (43:37): "I think I'm still chasing that high, honestly."

Listeners who missed the episode will find it a delightful mix of entertainment and informative discussions, encapsulating the essence of NPR's beloved news quiz show.

Transcript

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Bill Curtis]

From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait, wait, don't tell me. The NPR News Quiz. Invite me to your Memorial Day picnic. I'll eat your deviled eggs no matter how long they've been out in the sun. I'm Bill Curtis, and here is host at the Studebaker Theater and the Fine Arts Building in Chicago, Illinois, Peter Sagal.

[Peter Sagal]

Thank you, Bill. Thanks, everybody. So good to see you all. I am going to be honest with you all. The year's not even half over and we are already exhausted. So inspired by the hit TV show the White Lotus, we're going to take a week off. We're going to an exotic retreat and we're going to work on our wellness.

[Bill Curtis]

Oh, no, there's been a murder. Who could have seen this coming?

[Peter Sagal]

While we try to get to the bottom of this, we've got some soothing treatments for you, selected from the finest naturally derived radio segments.

[Bill Curtis]

First up, actor Josh Gad, the voice of Olaf the Snowman in Frozen, among many other roles. He joined us in January to talk about his new memoir.

[Peter Sagal]

And congratulations on the book, which I devoured this week. Was it a little intimidating to write a memoir at the age of 43?

[Josh Gad]

Well, it was just sitting there and typing all the words was intimidating because I had to come up with them. And as it started to expand, it just felt like, okay, this may be a story worth telling. And then a publisher paid me and I was like, okay, it is.

[Peter Sagal]

Yeah, that'll do it. Now the question I often ask people like you, who've done so many different things is what are you most recognized for? And you say in the book that you wish you had used a different voice for Olaf the Snowman because whenever you're talking in public, children hear you and go insane.

[Josh Gad]

Yeah, it was a stupid decision. I will get recognized in like Grocery stores just being like, hi, is milk over there? It can be something as innocuous as that. And all of a sudden three children will just give me an exorcist chair. So I regret that. But at the same time, I'm grateful that so many people love the voice of Olaf, which is me. The other thing that I'm weirdly recognized for is Bearclaw from New Girl, which makes no sense. There you go.

[Peter Sagal]

Yeah. Okay, there's some people. So I myself have never watched a show. Why is that surprising? Who is Bearclaw?

[Josh Gad]

That's my question as well. I did two episodes of that show and what's so funny is people went nuts for Bearclaw. He was this guy who, like, kind after Jess, played by Zooey Deschanel. And I was actually with Zoe's real life husband Jonathan yesterday. And he looked at me and he goes, bear Claw and Jess should have ended up together. Which is a very weird take.

[Peter Sagal]

Yeah. From. From her actual husband. Yeah.

[Josh Gad]

Yeah. There's like a small community, including her own husband, who just really love Bearclaw.

[Peter Sagal]

Wow, that's great. Can I ask a question about Olaf?

[Josh Gad]

Yes.

[Peter Sagal]

So I have a six year old daughter, so your voice is like in my apartment all the time. And I. You're great.

[Josh Gad]

It feels like less of a question and more like a threat.

[Peter Sagal]

Like, what kind of relationship do you have with the parents? Parents of the children that go nuts.

[Josh Gad]

One that's very volatile, like, whatever.

[Peter Sagal]

Like this thing that's happening right now. Yeah. No.

[Josh Gad]

You know what's funny is I've now been on the other side of it where, like, my girls are obsessed with Wicked right now.

[Peter Sagal]

Sure.

[Josh Gad]

And I'm having to listen to Ariana Grande's Popular over and over and Over Again or Cynthia Erivo's song. So I'm with you. I'm struggling and I know these people and so I'm texting them and I'm like, can we please just put a moratorium on this? A great job, but I can no longer listen to these songs on a loop.

[Peter Sagal]

Wow. It's like a Twilight Zone episode thing where it happens to you, man. It took so much empathy for you to give that detailed answer instead of just saying as I would have.

[Negeen]

Negeen, let it go.

[Peter Sagal]

He has more dignity than that, Josh. He has more dignity than that. He's the superior Josh G. You did tell the story in the book of one person who did not recognize you, which was the director, David O. Russell.

[Josh Gad]

Oh, God. Yeah. So, David O. Russell. This is such a crazy Story. David O. Russell, brilliant director. We were at the same Mommy and Me program because we're both mommies. And we were. We were outside and it was after he had just been nominated for one of the many films he was nominated for. And he looks at me and I said, congratulations on your nomination. He goes, oh, thank you. What do you do? And I said, oh, I'm an actor. And he says, well, what do you do? What do you act? And I said, oh, well, you know, your ear. I do this, I do that. He didn't recognize any of them. And then I said, you know, your kid may know me from something called Frozen. And he goes, what's that animated movie that's sort of, you know, everywhere but your home? And he goes, oh, what are you doing it? And I said, I'm a snowman. And it was do it.

[Peter Sagal]

He said, what?

[Josh Gad]

He said, do it. And I said, do the snowman. He goes, yeah. And I looked at him, this Academy Award winning director, and I said, hi, I'm Olaf. And he looked at me and he goes, huh? And I have not been in a David O. Russell film.

[Peter Sagal]

Really?

[Josh Gad]

There you go.

[Peter Sagal]

Yeah. Should have done a song, dude, that would have done it.

[Josh Gad]

But then afterwards, he goes, oh, you're bear claw.

[Peter Sagal]

I gotta ask one thing. The book does cover some of your struggle. And one story I loved is when you applied as a young man, when you were living in Florida to work at Disney.

[Josh Gad]

There were two rides that I always wanted to be the sort of host of. One was this ride called the Great Movie Ride, and then the other was the Jungle Cruise, Right? So I said, you know, I really think that I would be an amazing skipper on the Jungle Cruise. And this person looks at me and goes, well, yeah, I don't know about that, but we do have openings on our janitorial staff. And then years later, I told this story at something called the Disney Legends Award. And the head of the parks came up to me and said, would you like to be a skipper for a day on the Jungle Cruise? So I got to live out my dream, really. And.

[Peter Sagal]

When David O. Russell got in that boat.

[Josh Gad]

Game over.

[Peter Sagal]

Amazing. Well, Josh Gad, it is a pleasure to talk to you after seeing you do so many amazing things over the years. But we have asked you here to play a game.

[Bill Curtis]

We're calling Josh Gad, meet Posh Lads.

[Josh Gad]

Oh, boy.

[Peter Sagal]

So we've decided to ask you about Posh Lads, those fancy boys produced by British universities and boarding schools. Bill, who is Josh playing for?

[Bill Curtis]

Larry Anderson of Denver, Colorado.

[Peter Sagal]

All Right, here we go. Here's your first question. In 1805, posh lad and porn poet Lord Byron attended Cambridge University. But Cambridge wouldn't let him bring his dog with him as dogs were banned. So Lord Byron, that scamp, did. What was it? A, he kept a bear in his dorm room instead, because nothing in the rules said he couldn't do that. B, he built a doghouse 50ft away just off school grounds, with a tunnel connecting it to his room. Or C, he submitted a fake application that got his dog hired as a professor.

[Amber Makot]

Hmm.

[Josh Gad]

I think it's the bear thing. Cause that's just crazy to come up with.

[Peter Sagal]

Well, you think it's the bear? Well, you're right. It was the bear. Yeah, he used to walk around. He used to walk the bear around campus on a chain. All right, Josh, your next question. The famously elite Eton College has a long standing tradition called the Eton Wall game. It's a sort of combination of soccer and rugby, and it's played against this big brick wall.

[Josh Gad]

Yes, I've played it.

[Peter Sagal]

You have.

[Josh Gad]

No, I lied to you.

[Peter Sagal]

I. There's an annual game between the fanciest king, scholars and the rest of the school. It's a big deal. Even though. Which of these is true? A, the last time anyone scored a goal in the game was in 1909. B, the wall completely encloses the playing field so none of the spectators can actually see anything. Or C, the game is played with a 95 year old ball that deflates if you kick it.

[Josh Gad]

I'm gonna go with C. You're going.

[Peter Sagal]

To go with C that is played with a 95 year old ball? No. The answer is actually A. No one has scored a goal in this game for more than 100 years. Here's your last question. If you get this, you win. Here we go. Eton was founded in the year 1440. So obviously a lot has changed over the years. For example, in the 17th century, what was a rule imposed on all Etonians? A, before exams, the headmaster inspected each boy to ensure his upper lips was sufficiently stiff. B, students were forbidden from even learning the cleaning staff's first names. Or C, for their health, all students were required to smoke before breakfast.

[Josh Gad]

I'm thinking it's B.

[Negeen]

Wait.

[Peter Sagal]

What are.

[Negeen]

What are.

[Josh Gad]

What is your audience screaming?

[Peter Sagal]

The audience is screaming. C. The audience is screaming. C. All right.

[Josh Gad]

Well, my friend in Denver, if the audience gets this wrong, it's on them, not me.

[Peter Sagal]

C. You're all right. It was C. Yes. We did it. They smoked tobacco. They were forced to smoke tobacco for their health. It probably protected them.

[Josh Gad]

Oh, I love you guys. Thank you for bailing me out, Bill.

[Peter Sagal]

How did Josh Gad do in our quiz?

[Bill Curtis]

Well, how can you get a bigger winner? Congratulations, Josh.

[Peter Sagal]

I don't know. Josh Gad's new memoir is in Gad We Trust. Josh Gad. Thank you so much for joining us on Wait, Wait, don't tell me. What a joy to talk to you and what a pleasure to come. Stay safe. When we come back, the taxidermist to the stars and a woman affectionately known as Big Gretch. That's when we return with more Wait, Wait, Don't Tell me from npr.

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[Peter Sagal]

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[Bill Curtis]

From NPR in WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait, Wait, Don't TELL me, the NPR News quiz. I'm Bill Curtis. Here's your host at the Studebaker Theater in downtown Chicago, Peter Sagal.

[Peter Sagal]

Thank you, Bill. So thank you all so much. So right now, all of us at Wait Waiter off in a spa somewhere, looking at custom reports on our biometrics and nodding along as if we understand them.

[Bill Curtis]

All I know is my heart chakra is outperforming the dao.

[Peter Sagal]

Our therapy for you, though, is some delightful conversations we've had in the past few Months.

[Bill Curtis]

One of the more interesting was in February with Amber Makecutt. She's known in the media by an unusual title, which Peter asked her about. When she joined us, we saw that.

[Peter Sagal]

You were called Taxidermist to the Stars. What exactly does that mean? How did you earn that title?

[Gretchen Whitmer]

I guess that a lot of celebrities have bought stuff for me or commissioned work for me, or I go to their houses and fix their taxidermy and hang it up for them.

[Peter Sagal]

Can you describe, without breaking any confidences, what the kind of work you've done for some of these people?

[Gretchen Whitmer]

Let's see. So for Drew Barrymore, I did some framed butterflies to hang on the wall. And then for Amy Sedaris, I did a pheasant. And then for Adam Jones, he's the guitarist of Tool, I did a ram head with four horns on it and a goat head for the band Slayer.

[Peter Sagal]

I'm sure the goat heads are very popular with the whole heavy metal genre. Right? They all need the goat heads.

[Gretchen Whitmer]

Yeah, definitely.

[Peter Sagal]

Could you. I mean, I think people should understand this, that when we're talking about your taxidermy, for the most part, we're not talking about what they're thinking of, which is like, I don't know, a deer head mounted above a bar or in a cabin somewhere. Could you describe your work and what makes it special?

[Gretchen Whitmer]

Sure. A lot of what I do is called anthropomorphic taxidermy, so it's kind of giving life, human characteristics or activities to the taxidermy. So behind me here, I have a raccoon. Cowboy. So it's a raccoon wearing a cowboy hat and a red bandana around his neck and he's doing finger guns with his paws. That was actually for Justin Long and Kate Bosworth is shipping to la. And then the one next to it is actually a squirrel riding a horse, waving a cowboy hat. Cowboy theme happening here. And that one's for Maura Tierney, who's an actress from the show.

[Mike Dirks]

Er, yes.

[Peter Sagal]

Yes. I have so many questions. Yeah, let's just focus on Justin Long. Raccoon with the cowboy hat and the finger guns.

[Gretchen Whitmer]

Yes. So that one is probably one of my best sellers that went viral online. I made one once and then I put it online in my online shop that people could just click and buy it and then.

[Peter Sagal]

So you came up with it. Where did that come from? Were you, like, thinking about raccoons and going, you know, what would make them even better?

[Gretchen Whitmer]

Oh, geez, I don't know. I write down things in the middle of the night sometimes. That make no sense at all. So who knows?

[Peter Sagal]

Is there, like, the taxidermists have, like, their own aesthetic. Like, what makes a great taxidermy.

[Gretchen Whitmer]

Yeah, A mount. Good mount.

[Peter Sagal]

A good mount. Thank you.

[Gretchen Whitmer]

So taxidermy is, if you see, like, the mannequin behind me on the one side. So this is a Himalayan goat on one side that's mounted with the skin on it already. And the one on the other side is just a mannequin with just a form. So it's an anatomically correct mannequin to that specimen.

[Peter Sagal]

How do you get anatomically correct models of animals?

[Negeen]

Or do you make them?

[Gretchen Whitmer]

So there's taxidermy supply companies, dozens of them in the US where you can order, you know, your deer mannequin or skunk mannequin, and then you basically, it's kind of tailoring in reverse. You whittle down your mannequin or build up your mannequin to custom fit it to your skin. And then you use glass eyes that are also anatomically correct to the specimen to the millimeter wire for the tail. And then you do, you know, you kind of clay for musculature and sculptural work and sew it up, do your hair and makeup, do airbrushing, painting. So there's a lot. It's a lot of sculpture.

[Peter Sagal]

Yeah.

[Mike Dirks]

This is how I get ready in the morning, too.

[Peter Sagal]

You're just basically a polyurethane core.

[Josh Gad]

There's tons of mold, urethane.

[Peter Sagal]

I mean, obviously, you're so deeply invested in this. I have a problem. Problem with stuffed animals, because whenever I look away, I assume they're moving their heads to stare at me, and I turn and I look back, and they're immediately still again. I find it discomforting to be near all those completely still animals. It's creepy. Do you ever.

[Gretchen Whitmer]

Thanks for having me on, then.

[Peter Sagal]

Oh, you're welcome. It was an act of courage on my part. Well, Amber Makot, we have invited you here to play a game we're calling They're Alive. So, as we have been discussing, you specialize in putting deceased animals recreated in people's homes. So we thought we'd ask you about three instances of live animals getting in there. Get two out of three right, you will win our prize for one of our listeners. Are you ready to play? Sure. All right, Chiocchi, who is Amber Maycup playing for?

[Negeen]

Larry Gold of Minneapolis, Minnesota.

[Peter Sagal]

All right, Minnesotans here. Here's your first question. An Australian family was surprised when a koala got into their house, especially because it took them A little while to notice it. Where was it? A, on their couch next to a throw pillow with a koala printed on it. B, hanging on their Christmas tree as if pretending to be an ornament, Or C, sitting on top of their ceiling fan until, that is, they turned the ceiling fan on.

[Gretchen Whitmer]

No, I'm gonna go with A.

[Peter Sagal]

You're gonna go with a. That it was on their couch next to a koala throw pillow and they were like, oh, I guess we have two koalas. You pick it up because you're choosing B. Hanging on their Christmas tree.

[Gretchen Whitmer]

I guess so.

[Peter Sagal]

That's right. Oh, wow.

[Negeen]

Nice.

[Peter Sagal]

It was like hanging on the Christmas tree. They like trees. It makes sense. Alright, good. All right, next question. Some people actually welcome wild animals into their homes, including some surprising people. Like which of these? A, Britain's King Charles, who not only lets red squirrels into his Scottish estate, but leaves jackets hanging on chairs with nuts in the pockets for them to find B, Jamie Foxx, who has a deal with local animal control for them to bring any captured foxes naturally to his house, or C, Peyton Manning, who learned to imitate six different mating calls so he could attract animals to his patio.

[Gretchen Whitmer]

I'll go with a.

[Peter Sagal]

You can go with A. Britain's King Charles. You're right. Yeah. He loves those red squirrels. He says, sometimes when I leave my jackets on a chair with nuts in the pockets, I see them with their tails sticking out as they hunt for nuts. They're incredibly special creatures. All right, last question. You're doing very well. It's not just houses that can have trouble with wildlife. A high school in Little Rock had a bat infestation, but dealt with it quickly and decisively. Just by doing what? A, changing their mascot from the Running Rebels to the Fighting Bats. B, enrolling the bats as students, which allowed them access to state funds to get rid of the bats. Or C, just ceding control of the school to the bats and making all classes remote for a while. C. Yes, exactly right. It took them about four days to clear out the bats and clean up everything and bring the students back. Jochi, how did Amber do in our quiz?

[Negeen]

Amber got three taxidermy finger guns. She is a winner.

[Peter Sagal]

Amber May Cut is a taxidermist to the stars and the founder of Brooklyn Taxidermy. You can see see her [e-mail]. i recommend it highly, Amber. Well, thank you so much for being on. Wait, wait, don't tell me. Take care. Bye. Bye.

[Bill Curtis]

In April, we all traveled to Detroit to speak to Michigan's governor Gretchen Whitmer, who had just published a book with a title inspired by her nickname, Big Gretch.

[Peter Sagal]

I asked her how she came to embrace that handle.

[Mike Dirks]

So I'm named after both my grandmothers, Gretchen and Esther. And Grandma Gretchen always said, never let anyone call you Gretch. Your name is Gretchen. Gretch sounds like wretch. It's not pretty. So I've always had this aversion to being called Gretch, and I don't know many women that want big in front of their nickname. So, Big Gretch, when it first came to be during the pandemic, I was not sure what to make of it. And a woman who worked with me, Shaquilla Myers, who's from Detroit, said, you don't understand. This is a compliment. This is like the people of Detroit just gave you this, the key to the city, right? This is. They love you. This is a nice thing. So now it's my favorite nickname, Big Reverend.

[Peter Sagal]

Well, if there's not. If there might be somebody in the audience who's not as au courant with Detroit hip hop as you and I. It came from a. But it was bestowed upon you by a rapper, a Detroit rapper named G Mac. Right.

[Mike Dirks]

So he made it into a song. It started in the city of Detroit, but he made Big Gretch into a song. And that's really what.

[Peter Sagal]

Yeah.

[Mike Dirks]

What blew it up.

[Peter Sagal]

Right. And for people who don't know it, I'm not going to attempt to perform it, but the chorus is throw the buffs on her face because that's Big Gretsch. We ain't about to stress. We got Big Gretsch. You can find her in the press under Big Gretsch fresh in a new dress. Yeah, that's Big Gretch. And you said you weren't gonna perform it.

[Mike Dirks]

It's almost like GMAC Cash is here with us.

[Peter Sagal]

Really? It really is. Sticking with nicknames for a second. You mention in the book that you've had other nicknames before Big Gretsch, one of which was Gravity Gretchen. Yes. And could you tell us how you got that particular nickname?

[Mike Dirks]

Well, I'm a very active, accident prone person. I'm a klutz. I run into things, I fall down. I mean, I was practicing my State of the State last year and I ran into one of the podiums. I had a huge bruise. It just happens all the time. But when I was in middle school, I went to church camp, and for some reason it was out in Virginia or West Virginia of all places. And I was running to a base and the other girl tagged me, but pushed me really hard, and I went right into the cement and knocked out my front teeth. And so I came back from church camp in a wheelchair because I got 30 stitches in my knee. Both my hands were cut up, my face was cut up, and I was missing my teeth. And my father just looked at me and said, gravity, Gretchen.

[Peter Sagal]

And what did you do to anger God thus?

[Mike Dirks]

It's a good question. You know, I felt most bad about my dad because he just paid for braces to fix the gap between those front teeth.

[Peter Sagal]

Well.

[Mike Dirks]

But now I think I gotta figure out how I angered God.

[Peter Sagal]

Thank you. Well, something for the next book. Since we brought it up, I have to ask you about another time you fell down, or at least were found on the ground in high school, which, again, I think is a unique story among America's governors. I was wondering if you could share that.

[Mike Dirks]

Well, I'll just say this. There weren't no dogs were shot in my book.

[Peter Sagal]

That's true.

[Mike Dirks]

Yeah. So when I was in high school, I ran with a fast crowd, and it was the 80s, you know, there was a lot of. Not a whole lot of parental oversight and a lot of access to alcohol. And I drank a lot before a football game, and I passed out between two cars, and my principal found me. And I tell the story because that was really when I kind of got it together and became the best, you know, the most improved student that year and went to Michigan State and, you know, ended up. Thank you, Go Green. Ended up, you know, on the dean's list. And then I went to law school and graduated magna cum laude. But I think it was. I think it was that moment that really. It was devastating and I was punished, but it really inspired me to get my act together.

[Peter Sagal]

Right. I get that. But in the telling of that story, which, as you say, is inspirational, both in terms of its effect on your life, and I think, hopefully to the many young people who might read the book, there was a detail that you left out just now, which is when the principal found you.

[Mike Dirks]

Yeah.

[Peter Sagal]

Didn't you, like, bomb?

[Mike Dirks]

Oh, I threw up on him.

[Peter Sagal]

Oh, God. I gotta tell you, this all sounds.

[Josh Gad]

Like Big Gretch bae.

[Peter Sagal]

It really does. Really does. Continuing. This is great, because one of the interesting things about your life is that we can tell it in the form, like, via nicknames. Another famous one, of course, you could find it on Merch, that woman from Michigan, which was bestowed upon you by President Trump, or as I guess we should call him, President Trump 1.0. It must be exciting. Are you hoping for a new nickname in the second term?

[Mike Dirks]

I mean, we'll see. We'll see how it goes. I'm gonna, you know, see how it goes.

[Peter Sagal]

All right. Yeah. But, you know, the T shirt printers are ready in case he comes up.

[Mike Dirks]

With something that Michigan's Etsy community is ready to roll.

[Peter Sagal]

Governor Whitmer, it is an absolute thrill to be able to talk to you here in Detroit as we have with so many important people. We have invited you here to play a game that this time we are.

[Bill Curtis]

Calling check out these not so Great Lakes.

[Peter Sagal]

So Michigan, as I'm sure you know, is the Great Lakes State.

[Mike Dirks]

Oh, we are.

[Peter Sagal]

Yeah. So we thought we'd ask you about some not so Great Lakes, that is much, much smaller bodies of water. Answer two out of three questions about tiny lakes correctly and you will win our prize for one of our listeners, the voice of anyone they might choose for our show. Bill, who is Governor Whitmer playing for?

[Bill Curtis]

Jeff Kruger of Livonia, Michigan.

[Peter Sagal]

Are you ready to do this?

[Mike Dirks]

I'm ready.

[Peter Sagal]

Here's your first question. One of the smallest bodies of water you can find is, of course, a hot tub. And if you happen to have a hot tub outside of your house in Monrovia, California, in the 1990s, you had to watch out for what? A, a brand new STD that evolved in the heated water called Jacuzzi. Ria B. Samson the Hot tub bear, a 500 pound black bear who loved ending his day in somebody's. Or C, a business called Peeping Tim's Aerial Hot Tub Helicopter Tours.

[Mike Dirks]

Samson the Hot Tub and bear.

[Peter Sagal]

You're right. You just knew.

[Mike Dirks]

Just had a feeling.

[Peter Sagal]

You just had a feeling because of your knowledge of hot tubs, your knowledge of bears. Both. Neither.

[Mike Dirks]

All of the above.

[Peter Sagal]

All of the above. Yes. All right. That was very good. Governor. Here's your next question. Puddles. Harmless little bodies of water, but they can cause problems from time to time. As in, when which of these happened? A, a Japanese government official got in trouble for making a subordinate give him a piggyback ride over a puddle? B, a single puddle caused a massive traffic jam in Texas when a cybertruck rolled through it and shorted out? Or C, a Florida billionaire got caught trying to get a tax break by calling a puddle on his property an endangered wetland.

[Mike Dirks]

I mean, it's. I think it's a.

[Peter Sagal]

You think it's a. The Japanese government official. You're right. Oh, you're right. This happened back in 2016, and there was this, this big typhoon that damaged and the minister in charge of like, emergency relief showed up and there was a big puddle and he says he forgot to bring his overshoes. So he had a subordinate pick him up and carry him through the puddle, which did not go over well with the Japanese public. We had to apologize. All right, that's very good. You have one more. Let's see if you can be perfect here. The largest public swimming pool ever, we think, was the Fleisch Hacker public pool in San Francisco. It was so enormous during its heyday that what once happened, A, it was taken over by a pod of gray whales, B, it had to close twice a day for low tide, or C, they had to put lifeguards out to patrol the pool in rowboats. C. That's right. Wow. It was an enormous pool, now closed, now gone, filled with seawater piped in from the ocean next door, they say could accommodate 10,000 people at once. Bill, how did Governor Whitmer do in our quiz?

[Bill Curtis]

She is perfect.

[Peter Sagal]

Yes, Gretchen Whitmer is the governor of Michigan. Her new book, True Gretsch, is available now. It's a hoop feet and a half. Governor Gretchen Whitmer, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. And wait, don't tell. We'll give it up for your governor. Ladies and gentlemen, when we come back, two of the humans behind the heavy metal Aliens of gwar and a singer songwriter with a very special connection to me. That's when we come back with more of Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. From npr, support for this podcast and the following message come from Mint Mobile. Summer is just around the corner. You may break a sweat, but don't break the bank. Get your summer savings at Mint Mobile Shop Premium wireless plans for just $15 a [e-mail] wait. Upfront payment of $45 for a 3 month 5 gigabyte plan required. New customer offer for first 3 months only. Then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

[Negeen]

This message comes from Capella University. The right support can make a difference. That's why at Capella University, learning online doesn't mean learning alone. You'll get support from people who care about your success and are there for you every step of the way. Whether you're working on a bachelor's, master's or doctoral degree, you can learn confidently, knowing you'll get the dedicated help you need. A different future is closer than you think with Capella University. Learn [e-mail].

[Bill Curtis]

From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is Wait, wait, don't tell me, the NPR News quiz. I'm Bill Curtis, and here is your host at the Studebaker Theater in the Fine Arts Building in downtown Chicago, Illinois, Peter Siegel.

[Peter Sagal]

Thank you, Bill. So by this time at the exotic spa where we're spending the week, we've had the massages, the yoga, the meditation, and frankly, none of us are feeling any better.

[Bill Curtis]

That's it. I'm going to find a way to relax, even if it's kills me.

[Peter Sagal]

Well, you work on that, Bill. Here are two more treatments for our audience in the form of music therapy, by which we mean interviews with musicians.

[Bill Curtis]

We went to Richmond, Virginia in February to celebrate what the city was most famous for, the legendary shock rock band gwar.

[Peter Sagal]

We were joined by Mike Bishop and Mike Dirks, who did something they almost never do. They got up on stage without their elaborate costumes and makeup. So I started by asking them to describe their band. It's a theatrical shock rock, shock heavy metal band that is very performative on stage. And we are theatrical show that involves a lot of costuming and set pieces and phony executions and oh, oh, that old saw, quite literally, they use a saw sometimes. We're also from outer space, though.

[Negeen]

We have a narrative or a band of extraterrestrial war gods that has been banished to the planet Earth for all the crimes they committed in outer space.

[Peter Sagal]

Right. So just, and you two were right there in the beginning and when you joined the band, did you pick your own characters?

[Negeen]

I inherited mine. I am Ball Zack. The Jaws of Death.

[Peter Sagal]

Ballsack. The Jaws of Death.

[Negeen]

And I was the third Jaws of Death. There had been a couple incarnations because the first few shows that Gore played, they were, it was just a collective of whoever, whatever artists and musicians they could grab from VCU and the surrounding areas to throw on these costumes and do a show.

[Peter Sagal]

Yeah, I love, I love how folksy that sounds. You know, like my father is Mr. Balzac. Call me Balzac. But his grandfather was the jaw to death and his grandfather before me. And, and Bishop, who are you on stage? So originally I was Beefcake the Mighty, who was the bass player. Beefcake has some fans here. Yeah. And now I am the singer. Following the passing of the original lead singer, Dave Brocki, who everybody knows and love, I came back and now I play the Berserker Blothar. The Berserker Blothar. And for people who haven't seen it, these costumes you wear are not just, I mean, like the guys from Kiss, for example, are just amateurs when it comes to you guys. You've got like enormous headpieces and huge full body costumes that often have, shall we say, over the top anatomy. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. This is not your first time in npr because famously Guar did a tiny desk concert. This is true. And by the way, I recommend everybody watch this. When you walked into NPR headquarters in the full guar regalia, what was the reaction from our colleagues there?

[Negeen]

It was enthusiastic. No, they made us go around the whole studios and I think, yeah, they.

[Bill Curtis]

Were kind of using us to scare their.

[Peter Sagal]

Wait a minute. What do you mean? It'd be like, hey, Scott Simon, could you say, step out of the office just for a second?

[Bill Curtis]

Yeah, yeah, Sylvia.

[Peter Sagal]

And you Guar very popular in Richmond, of course. And you even have a guar bar.

[Negeen]

We do.

[Peter Sagal]

People have been to for fans and. And Dirks. You work there sometimes, right?

[Negeen]

I do. I. I bartend and I'm a man, one of the managers there.

[Peter Sagal]

Right. And do people ever come in and I presume it with. They're GWAR fans, they recognize you.

[Negeen]

We'll get people in there all the time. I'll be bartending and people will come up and ask me like, so do the guys in GWAR ever hang out here? My wife's like, not very often, no.

[Peter Sagal]

Well, Mike Dirks and Mike Bishop, we have invited you here to play a game we're calling.

[Negeen]

You guys are Guar Meet Jaguar.

[Peter Sagal]

We're gonna ask you about Jaguar Jaguars. Answer two out of three questions about Jaguars of various kinds. You'll win our prize for one of our listeners, Joki, who are Mike and Mike playing for?

[Negeen]

Sharon Lowry of Richmond, Virginia.

[Peter Sagal]

All right. If you win, maybe she'll come by the bar to thank you. All right, here we go. Now, the Jacksonville Jaguars are an NFL team that's had some good seasons, but they have also been been very unlucky, including one year when their punter suffered a unique injury. What was it? A, he bet somebody he could punt a 35 pound kettlebell and broke all his toes. B, he accidentally chopped himself in the leg with the inspirational axe kept in the locker room. Or C, he joined the team's cheerleaders for a kick line and ruptured his groin on the first kick. C. Sounds weird. Yeah, the kicker joining a kick line.

[Negeen]

But I know that they have strict rules against fraternization between the players and the. So I'm thinking it's the. He broke his toes trying to broke his toes you.

[Peter Sagal]

So. So let me get this right, Dirk, you're Picking. He broke his toes trying to punt a kettle bell.

[Negeen]

Yeah.

[Peter Sagal]

And Bishop, you're choosing. He got in the kick line with a julie. It was actually the other one. The coach kept an axe and a stump in the locker room to inspire his team to, quote, keep chopping. What does that happen? The punter did. All right, that's okay, guys. You still have two more chances. Here is your next question. The Jacksonville Jaguars mascot is Jackson deville. It's a person in a skin tight suit and a big jaguar head. And he has been so innovative in the mascot arts that he has actually inspired a real rule change for all mascots across the NFL. What is that rule change? A, no mascot may ever mime intimate acts with the other team's mascot. B, all mascots must be drug tested before each half. Or C, no mascot may get closer than six feet to the field of play. Especially not if they are carrying a life size dummy of the opponent's quarterback that they intend to stomp on midfield.

[Negeen]

Well, it sounds like a very guar answer. So having the rubber dummy of the.

[Peter Sagal]

Opposing quarterback, it could be inspired by guar. Maybe it was. That's the real answer. Of course, the rule arose from an incident in a game against the Steelers in 1998. Okay, let's start talking about real Jaguars. According to the scientists who work at a wildlife reserve in Guatemala, the best way to attract one of the big cats they can do it without fail is to do what? A, turn on music by Kenny G, which the Jaguars find irresistible. B wear lots of Obsession by Calvin Klein, which draws them like flies. Or C dress like Jackson deville, the Jacksonville Jaguars mascot. I bet it's Kenny G, man.

[Negeen]

Oh, wow.

[Peter Sagal]

The audience is saying B. B. The audience is shouting B. Obsession by Calvin Klein.

[Negeen]

I don't know. Cats don't have this super sensitive smell like dogs.

[Peter Sagal]

Dog. Yeah, well, they got that thing where they go like that. All right, all right.

[Negeen]

We're trusting. These people are obviously more intelligent than us.

[Peter Sagal]

So you're gonna go for B. Yeah. Yes. That's right. Congratulation. How did Dirks and Bishop do in our quiz?

[Negeen]

The scum dogs of the universe do not know defeat.

[Peter Sagal]

Well done.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Peter Sagal]

October of last year, we hosted the singer songwriter Kara Jackson, a former Illinois and then national Youth Poet Laureate.

[Bill Curtis]

But we of course focused in on her most important formative experience, being coached at T ball by none other than Peter Sager.

[Peter Sagal]

Thanks for having me. Now I have left off what I think of as one of the most important items on your resume, which is that you were one of the starting players on the Angels, an eight year old girl's T ball team in Oak park, which I coached.

[Amber Makot]

Yeah.

[Peter Sagal]

So a little nervous about the answer. What do you remember about Coach Sagal on on the Angels and being on the Angels?

[Amber Makot]

You know, I was pretty good at T ball, I've gotta say. I was just really tall.

[Peter Sagal]

Yeah.

[Amber Makot]

I feel like some people struggled. Like there were some people where it was like they were shorter so they had to like, you know, lower the tee.

[Peter Sagal]

Yeah.

[Amber Makot]

But the taller kids, they would make it bigger and everyone would be like back up.

[Peter Sagal]

Like there really is no better feeling, I imagine, than coming to bat with the tee and all the other players.

[Amber Makot]

I think I'm still chasing that high, honestly.

[Peter Sagal]

Right. So you moved from T ball to poetry and were named the Chicago Youth Poet Laureate while you were still in high school. Do you remember any of those early poems?

[Amber Makot]

Well, unfortunately for me, a part of the Youth Poet Laureate program in the city, every poet laureate is responsible for writing a chapbook. So like a mini book of poems. So I have, you know, a living archive.

[Peter Sagal]

Right.

[Amber Makot]

All the poems I wrote at that time.

[Peter Sagal]

Right. Do you ever go back and look at them and how do you feel about them?

[Amber Makot]

I think it's been a minute since I've looked back at them, but I think I have mixed emotions sometimes. It's cringy just because I think that having a living record of things you thought as a teenager would just be cringy probably for everyone here Right.

[Peter Sagal]

It's all true. It gets very true.

[Amber Makot]

You know, it's also, like a chance for me. I'm trying to do better the older I get to also, you know, treat my younger self with care and, you know, appreciate what I was doing at that age. Because I think you take for granted.

[Peter Sagal]

Yeah. A lot. Yeah. My advice would be go to that young girl you once were and give her a snack and a juice box, because it always works.

[Amber Makot]

The after the game snacks.

[Peter Sagal]

Oh. The best part of T Ball, I can see we're never gonna get off that topic. You then became, and I remember hearing about this and being very impressed. The National Youth Poet Laureate. Right. And what kind of. I mean, that sounds like a serious post. What kind of obligations, duties, ceremonial, otherwise come with it.

[Amber Makot]

Yeah. So when I became the Youth Poet Laureate, I was the third one. So I think the program was still kind of establishing itself in terms of what it entails as a role. I think it was still kind of, you know, becoming a real tangible thing.

[Peter Sagal]

Yeah, sure.

[Negeen]

So. So you were the third one. And there have been plenty since then.

[Amber Makot]

Yeah.

[Negeen]

So do you look at the new ones, like, man, y' all got it good. You know, like how college athletes are getting paid a lot more money now?

[Amber Makot]

I don't know. I really think I only look at the new ones with admiration because they're younger than me. So I. Either way, I think I would never trade places with someone who's like 19 at this age, like, no matter what I'm going through.

[Peter Sagal]

Yeah, yeah. But you're 25 right now. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

[Amber Makot]

Almost 25 in a couple weeks.

[Commercial Announcer]

You're not 25 yet.

[Peter Sagal]

She's 24. You're at that age.

[Negeen]

She's like, yeah, back in the day when I was just 19.

[Peter Sagal]

24 and a half. Let's talk about your music. So you have a song about the various losers you've dated. It's called Head Blues. It's pretty scathing. And I'm wondering, what has that done for your social life?

[Amber Makot]

I don't know, because I think that I am really associated with like minded people. So I think it maybe only enhanced it. I feel like for people who needed that song, they really, you know, leaned into it. And it's been fun to travel and perform that one in front of many different audiences. I had to perform at the US Ambassador in London, and I did that song for the US Ambassador, and she was really cool with it. I feel like she, you know, maybe related, possibly.

[Peter Sagal]

And the response was positive.

[Amber Makot]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Peter Sagal]

Well, there you are?

[Amber Makot]

Yeah.

[Negeen]

The ambassador was like, right on, right on.

[Bill Curtis]

He said, yeah, girl. Get him close.

[Peter Sagal]

Well, Kara Jackson, it is great to talk to you, and we've invited you here to play a game we're calling.

[Bill Curtis]

It's a yes Fun Party.

[Peter Sagal]

So you wrote a song called no Fun Party?

[Amber Makot]

Yes.

[Peter Sagal]

So based on that, we thought we'd ask you about some really fun parties. Answer two to three questions correctly, you'll win our prize for one of our listeners, the voice of anyone they might choose for their voicemail. Bill, who is Kara Jackson playing for?

[Bill Curtis]

Maureen Tarr of Natick, Massachusetts.

[Peter Sagal]

There you are. All right, you ready to play?

[Amber Makot]

Okay. Yeah.

[Peter Sagal]

First question. The former executive of a company called Tyco was sent to prison back in the day for stealing money from his company to fund his lavish lifestyle, including a 2002 birthday party for his wife, which included which of these. A, each guest getting a new Mercedes Benz in a giant bag as they departed. B, an ice sculpture of Michelangelo's David that dispensed vodka from his little David. Or C, a musical background of instrumental versions of U2 songs played during the cocktail hour by U2.

[Amber Makot]

I feel like maybe it's B.

[Peter Sagal]

It is B. So if you think about it, it's sort of like a spigot, right? The ice sculptor. Anyway, here is your next question. A British woman named Ivy smalls celebrated her 105th birthday back in 2016. She only had one request for the party. What was it? A life size blown up photos of all her enemies that she had outlived.

[Amber Makot]

That's what I would want.

[Peter Sagal]

That's my kind.

[Amber Makot]

That's what I would want.

[Peter Sagal]

Speaks to me. B, hunky firefighters with tattoos. Or C, pot brownies.

[Amber Makot]

Hmm. The first one speaks to me the most. So I'm gonna go with A, life.

[Peter Sagal]

Size photos of all the people she'd outlived. No, it was actually hunky firefighters with tattoos. Really? Yeah. That's what she wanted. All right, here's your last question. Get this right, you win. Colleges are known, of course, for huge parties. And in 2017, one house party at a college in Maryland became such a rager that. What happened? A, NBA scouts showed up just to recruit from the beer pong games. B, when the cops came to bust up their party, their breathalyzers all went off just from the air inside the house. Or C, the party became so big, it could be seen from space.

[Amber Makot]

Yeah, I'm gonna go with B. Sorry in advance. This person.

[Peter Sagal]

You're right again. The air was so thick with alcohol that the breathalyzers on their belts started beeping. Bill, how did Kara Jackson do in our quiz?

[Bill Curtis]

Two out of three. Kara, you are the poet laureate who won the game.

[Peter Sagal]

Congratulations. Kara Jackson is an award winning poet in the cell, celebrated singer, songwriter, behind why does the Earth Give Us People to Love? And speaking from personal experience, she's a contact hitter who can hit with power to all fields. Kara Jackson, thank you so much for joining us. Wait, wait, Don't Tell Me. That's it for our Wellness Retreat edition. Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me is a production of NPR and WBEZ Chicago in association with Urgent Haircut Productions. Doug Berman, benevolent overlord Philip Gautica writes our limericks. Our public address announcer is Paul Friedman. Our tour manager is Shayna Donald. BJ Ledemann composed our theme. Our program is produced by Jennifer Mills, Miles Dornboss and Lillian King. Special thanks to Monica Hickey. Our jolly good fellow is Anna Anderson. The hot stones and our massage those are Peter Gwynn. Our vibe curator is Emma Choi. Technical direction is from Lorna White. Our CFO is Colin Miller. Our production manager is Robert Neuhaus. Our senior producer is Ian Chillag. And the executive producer, Wait, wait, don't tell me. Is Mr. Michael Danforth. Thanks to everybody you heard on the show this week, all of our panelists, our special guests, of course, Bill Curtis, and thanks to all of you for listening. I'm Peter Sagal and we'll be back next week, revivified with a new sense of well being. This is NPR.

[Negeen]

This message comes from NPR sponsor 1Password Secure access to your online world, from emails to banking, so you can protect what matters most with 1Password for a free 2 week trial, go to 1Password.com.

[Commercial Announcer]

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