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Walk-In Talk Podcast
Shooting Wasn't Enough | John Hernandez on Food Styling, RAK, and Owning the Plate
00:29:04
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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.
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B
Most people see a finished image. The plate looks clean, composed, intentional. What they don't see is how much had to change behind the scenes to get it there. Because a year ago, this wasn't the expectation. This wasn't the standard. And for John Hernandez, the role was clear. Stay behind the camera. Capture the moment. Make it look right. But as the work evolved, so did the responsibility. Through our relationship with Rock Porcelain usa, the stakes got higher. This wasn't just content anymore. We earned the opportunity to shoot their product catalog. That means every plate matters, every detail matters. There's no room for good enough. And that's where the shift happened. John didn't step away from the camera. He stepped deeper into the process. Learning from the chefs coming through the studio week after week, watching how they build, how they adjust, how they think, and then applying it. Cooking, plating, refining not to become a chef, but to understand the plate well enough to elevate it before it ever hits the lens. And now the work reflects that. So today is a different kind of episode. No outside guests, just a conversation about growth, earned opportunity, and what happens when you stay close enough to the craft long enough that it starts to change how you see everything. And as we head towards episode 200 at the Tampa Club, this is part of that story. Because what we're building now is on a completely different level than when we started. Let's get into it.
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A
John, Do I say welcome to the show? I don't know. You know, it's weird. It's not weird because, you know, known each other for a million years.
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C
No, it's absolutely weird.
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A
Is it? Yeah. Okay. I don't think so.
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C
I don't.
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A
I don't think it. I don't think it's weird at all. But I will tell you that it's awkward, not weird. It's a little bizarre because typically, they're chefs. There's hustle and bustle going on here with more people today. Just you and me, baby. That's it.
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C
Still hustle and bustle?
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A
Yeah. No, clearly, there's work. There's tons of work involved in all of this. But it was different, and it was. Listen, we. I don't know. What time is it? We're We're a little bit. We're only just past our normal schedule time, and we kind of just eased into the whole day, and we had
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C
to go shopping, and we did three versions of the same dish.
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A
Correct. So the truth is, things went pretty smooth today, all things considered, that you're not, in fact, a chef, but today you were the one holding the tongs and tweezers.
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C
True story.
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A
I don't know. Back in 1989, when you used to draw, like, cartoon characters and stuff like that, you were very artsy. And then naturally, over the years, you progressed with your art. You started doing more serious stuff. Then, of course, you picked up the camera, you did all that stuff. Fast forward to 2020 and walk and talk media, and we're doing the podcast, and all of a sudden, there's photography, there's the food. You've always had that. I. But when did you realize that I alone, like, wasn't enough anymore?
- [03:23]
C
I'd have to say that I always felt like it wasn't enough. I'm harder on myself than anyone else could be. You don't always know what the next step is to get better. You know, you can get better at lighting, you can get better at all the technical stuff. But, you know, having these incredible chefs coming in here every week, you know, you start to pick up some of the stuff that they're doing, and I'm watching them very closely and trying to pick up little techniques and this kind of thing, you know. Then I started asking questions. So when they come in here, I'm always trying to pick their brains and get, you know, little bits of information from them. If I can get a little tidbit each week, you know, I see that as a win.
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A
Let's talk about the dish a little bit. What did you do today?
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C
We did a Greek chicken pasta dish. When we went to the store, we were trying to decide the dish. The recipe actually calls for penny pasta, but we wanted to elevate that a little bit. So when we went to the store, we. We decided to get penny bucatini and a red lentil spaghetti. And we decided we were going to do that three different ways. The dish has, obviously, chicken artichoke hearts, tomato, some feta, a little bit of citrus, some lemon, and lots of butter.
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A
Yeah, the butter was a winner.
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C
Gotta have butter, right? Everything's better with butter.
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A
Everything is better with butter. So here's the deal. I mean, clearly, I'm not a Greek, right? But the food is good. Love the Mediterranean stuff. I know my wife would dig this dish. A lot. So all three dishes, I gotta tell you, John, again, you're no culinarian, but you can get down in the kitchen a little bit, like in home style. Like, you're actually really great being a cook, a home cook. And for a guy who, granted, you have a terrific eye and granted you understand composition and colors and you get all that. So for you, maybe styling and picking up plating is probably pretty easy. But what you did today, three different dishes, physical dishes, you did freaking great. Everything looked great. The photography, like, as we're shooting them, man, dope. So we did the penne, we did the. The bugatini, and then lentil spaghetti, whatever. What was your favorite at all? Now, we're talking looks here, because flavor profiles are all in and around the same. Right. But we're talking looks. We're talking styling. What was your favorite?
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C
So looks? The third one we did was the red lentil spaghetti. And I feel like by that time, actually I was a little bit warmed up. So, you know, my process, you know, I'm not a chef, so I'm not cooking, you know, 100 of these a night. You know, I'm going into it cold. By the time we got to the third dish, I think I was a little more warmed up and the process went a little smoother. Plus, we were running out of ingredients, so I did the sauce separate instead of mixing it in with the pasta. My only thing is, I was hoping that the red lentil spaghetti, that it would keep the color a little bit. And it did lose a lot of the red color. Once it was. Once it was cooked.
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A
Yeah. It turned into more of a bronze.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Which was.
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C
But, you know, but it looked nice.
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A
It did. You picked the right plate for it, so it actually worked out really well. In fact, while I was doing the. The filming, there was one close up. I mean, all of it was, you know, good, but this one particular close up shot, as you were finishing, looked freaking great.
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C
Yeah.
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A
Yeah. I can't wait to actually do the editing for that.
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C
Yeah, I liked it. I just was hoping for a little bit more red, that's all.
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A
With all the chefs that come through the studio and all the work we do together with them, is there anything subtle that you picked up from a chef particular that changed how you approach styling a dish?
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C
Yeah, I would have to say less is more. You know, when I go out to a restaurant to eat, you know, I want. I want that plate full because I'm the consumer, but when I'm taking a picture of it, you know, negative Space goes a really long way. You know, color. Color is always, always a plus. Find a way.
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A
We are in the business of documenting food, and sometimes it's not often, but sometimes we become the focus. Actually. No, you become the focus because I. I actually haven't cooked on the show ever. I might have to do that someday. At what point do you come up with the thinking, I'm going to just go and cook this plate myself?
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C
I've always kind of enjoyed cooking, and I started cooking really young, and, you know, on top of that, I moved out of home when I was very young. So, you know, I've always cooked for myself. And it's kind of a natural progression at that point. It's not like I have a private chef where I've to prepare a dish for me to shoot every day. So, you know, got to do it yourself.
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A
I mean, how many ramen noodles did we eat as teenagers? And Elios and Elio's pizza.
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C
Yeah.
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A
I mean, my God.
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C
I'm afraid it's. I'm afraid it's not going to be what I remember.
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A
Probably won't it? Probably. But you know what? Maybe it will. I don't know. Maybe, you know, I mean, after all the, you know, the Thomas Parkers and the Thomas Manzigs and, you know, all these people and, you know, the Michaelantes. Are we spoiled? Yeah. I don't know if I'm.
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C
But you can always enjoy a slice of Elios.
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A
I will take that challenge and go for that. All right, so there's a million people out there with a camera in their pocket, and they love to take pictures of their food. They love to post what they eat on socials, and. And, you know, that's that whole. It's that whole life that's upon us now. You're a professional photographer. Most of it. You are a professional photographer. When we have all these chefs coming in and out of here every week, and you have to bring that dish back into the studio, what do you. What are you looking at first? Is there something that. Are there times where you need to make corrections or adjustments to these dishes? Is it something where you're like, all right, let me. Let me. Let me check out the structure. Let me check out the color or the balance. Like, how are you tackling that?
- [09:32]
C
I would say that, know, probably balance is the most important, and then structure and then, you know, color. You know, that that's pretty much made up of what the ingredients are, whatever the chef is putting on the plate. So I. I always try to respect the chef's vision. But composition is super important in your image. And, you know, so that's why I would say balance first.
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A
Yeah, but what's your definition of balance? What? Balance.
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C
Okay, so for. So, for example, you know, there. There's an unwritten rule, the rule of thirds. So things compositionally look better in odd numbers when you're taking a photo. And then sometimes. Sometimes there's too much on a plate, and it's hiding, you know, an important aspect of that play. Maybe. Maybe the. The hero meat or something like that. You know what I mean?
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A
Walk and Talk Media is proudly supported by Rack Porcelain usa, creating durable, beautifully designed tableware for chefs and hospitality professionals. Learn more@rack porcelain.com.
- [10:42]
C
so when I do make an adjustment, I always, out of respect, you know, I try to ask the chef, hey, is it okay if I move this? Or whatever? And then, you know, sometimes you just know, you know, what's going to look right in the shot. And, you know, maybe you can't get an angle. Maybe. Maybe by the stuff that they put on the plate, it's. It's hiding it too much, and you can't get that right angle. So you got to move something for an. You know, a lot of times a chef is plating for a dinner table, not a picture. And, you know, it's similar, but, you know, it's different.
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A
I mean, how blessed are we to have beautiful brand partners like Metro and Testo? And, of course, Rack Porcelain. John Marino was here a couple of weeks ago. He's the CEO and president of Rack Porcelain usa. Well, for me, that was such a big deal. I know for you, too, that was such a big deal for him to be here in this. In the studio with us. The fact that we do so much with them and the opportunity came out where you got to shoot their catalog and, you know, continue to. Is amazing. Now, obviously, when chefs are in the building here, everything's all, you know, easy peasy, lemon squeezy, right? It's easy. You just, hey, Chef, I need this, right? But when you're doing these catalogs, it's on you. You're the one that has to produce these dishes. And this is where I've seen. This was the genesis of this whole. This episode. Is that the progression that I've seen with you? Where, yeah, John, you're a badass photographer, but all of a sudden, you have to cook it and plate it, too, and shoot it looks to make it look professionally done. That is a big deal to me. As I'm looking just at, like, how experiences progress and how techniques get dialed in. Cooking the catalog dishes yourself is a whole different level of responsibility. What did you learn the hard way the first time you owned that entire plate doing these catalogs? Oof.
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C
Well, first thing I would say is that it is really hard. It's extremely difficult to set up your studio, get everything ready for the shoe pick, your plates pick. You know, a lot of times actually the, your, your plates are already picked for you. But picking your tabletop picking, you know, the style of lighting you want to use, all that stuff, then you got to cook. And these plates are high end. They're, they're beautiful plates. So you have to put high end looking food on there. You can't just put a hamburger on there. It's got to be, you know, a good looking dish. The good thing is, is, is I'm not cooking for flavor so much. I'm cooking for it to look beautiful. So you can cheat a little bit. It, the presentation just has to be stellar though. It has to match the plate that you're, that you're showcasing there. I would, I would say the first time is that I made an absolute terrible mess in my kitchen because there's no one clean enough for you. You're literally having to go right, right from plating into the studio and you can't clean up because the food dies. Dies real quick.
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A
So if there's any photographers in the audience listening to this, they're going to hear that, they're going to hear what you're saying and understand that, like, that's a lot of work.
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C
It's a ton of work.
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A
And it's all hurdles, it's all uphill,
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C
it's a ton of work. And here's the other thing. So if you make any mistake, you have to start completely over. You've just messed up the plate you're shooting on. So you have to completely start over from scratch. Or it might not even be that you made a mistake. Maybe you shot something and the client looks at it and says, well, can we, can we change the color of that pasta out? You know, we want the red lentil pasta, not the white. You know, start over.
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A
So look, at the end of the day, if it was anybody else except for like Rack or one of our people, I'm telling them it stays as is. Right? We're not doing this again. Anyway, it's beautiful, right? That's what you tell them and you show them the picture and they're going to go, ah, you're right, you're right. So with that said, what do most people misunderstand about what it takes to actually make food translate on camera? It's so much different than something you're going to get at, you know, McDonald's menu board, right? Like this is, this is just different. Although it looks delicious, by the way. McDonald's menu board stuff, but with, but it's, this is different stuff. This is a whole different type of, of plating, styling, you know, photography.
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C
I mean, I'll go back to the earlier question, you know, less is more.
- [15:28]
A
One of the biggest frustrations I hear from operators is putting time and money into things that don't actually bring people through the door. Franke is approaching that differently. It's a pay per visit model, so you're only paying when diners actually come in and spend. They're also leaning into user generated video. Real diners sharing real experiences. With over 220,000 restaurant videos out there already, what stands out is the accountability. You can actually see what's driving real traffic and revenue into your restaurant. If you're looking for a more measurable way to bring in diners, Franke's built to do exactly that. They're offering $250 in in store purchases to get started. Find the link in the show notes to redeem the offer.
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C
Don't, you know, don't fill the whole plate. And you know, color is really huge. If you can introduce some color to that dish, you know, it can go a really, really long way. And it doesn't take much, just a pop. You know, a brown steak with a brown sauce on a white mashed potato. You know, it can look really, really dull in an image and you know, probably tastes amazing, but, you know, throw some chives on those potatoes, you know, a little melted butter for some yellow. Add some chili flakes to the steak. You know, whatever you can do to add some color, it really, really goes a long way.
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A
I mean, that makes a lot of sense. Is that it? I mean, so like, if it's me, like, you know me for a long time, I was like ultra high contrast on my, let's take a picture. I sent it to you and you're like, yeah, it's an alien. What is that? What's something else? For like the, the average foodie who goes to the restaurant, they're snapping pictures and sending it to their, to their wives or kids or something like that.
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C
Yeah, I mean, you know, lighting is everything. Obviously the worst thing you can do is light a dish from the front. You know, you want to be lighting it from the side or the back and, you know, to add a little drama. Some shadows. Shadows are wonderful. You know, that's what I would say.
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A
I remember the first time that I walked into a restaurant. I walked into an active eatery, and I had to film by myself. Like, there was no one there. You weren't there. There was no. There was nobody. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I can't believe I'm doing this. This is my first time actually doing this by myself. I had to earn that confidence from the floor up, from the ground up. And it wasn't easy for you, learning some cooking methods and learning how to actually plate. What does that do for your confidence behind the lens?
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C
Well, I mean, I'm still learning, you know, but. But confidence is built when you do plate that thing and you do shoot it, and then you're proud of that image that you shot. And each time that happens, you know, that confidence compounds.
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A
How do you know when it's the last microgreen? How do you know when it's the last drip or smear or. Or whatever? How do you know when it's the last one? When it's been. When it's too much? When you've crossed a line?
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C
You know, I don't always know.
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A
And.
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C
And sometimes I love it when I'm shooting it. And then, you know, the next day you look at it and you're like, man, what was I thinking? What would you learn from it? You know, the best way to. Best way to get better is to screw up.
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A
Do you still put out that content?
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C
Man, I'm super picky about what I put out sometimes. You know, what we do here is very unique. First off, what we shoot is not fake. It's real. It's what the chef is cooking. And, you know, it gets eaten here. This is not, you know, a hamburger with, you know, pieces of corrugated cardboard stacked in between to make it, you know, build up and for. This is real stuff. So I don't always love the way a dish looks when I'm shooting it, but it's real. But I'm super picky about what I put out.
- [19:33]
A
Oh, I get it. Me too. Like, there's so much content that I don't use, even though it was crisp and there was something that was wrong in the right. Just in the periphery where you can't get rid of it. And instead of. Instead of publishing that, I dump it.
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C
Yeah, same.
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A
You have to. And I'm glad we do that, but we have so much content. That's the Beautiful thing we have. We have access to so much action that we can. We can do that kind of thing. I guess other people might be, you know, compromised with that. They don't. They don't have enough to. There's not enough for them to. To be so picky. We're just building out these relationships, man. And for me, that's one of the. That's one of the coolest things about what we're doing here and the growth that we have going on. And I want to just kind of go back to. I want to go back to the catalog for a second. It's a big opportunity, and that's a lot of pressure because you're dealing with several people in that company. You have to perform, and everybody has an opinion or direction, and at the end of it, you have to walk that tightrope, perform, execute, deliver. And that's amazing. And that's a whole different level of pressure, knowing that. How does it impact your approach?
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C
First of all, the team over at Rack is so awesome to work with. I was so excited. I couldn't have been more excited to get these catalog shoots. And, you know, I would say there were many challenges going in, but the biggest one that, you know, I could think of is that we're in Florida and they're in Ohio.
- [21:16]
A
Support for Walk and Talk Media comes from Metro food service solutions trusted by kitchens that need storage and workflow that actually does the job. Learn more@metro.com
- [21:28]
C
so, so how do you fix that? The software that I use allows me to share my shoot with them as I'm shooting. They're getting my images live as I shoot. So, you know, we're all communicating, the team and me as we shoot. And, you know, sometimes it's, you know, move. Move that fork a little bit to the left. Move the. Move the glass to the right, you know, whatever. So. So they're doing. This is all happening live, you know, constant feedback throughout the day. Generally before the shoot, they prepare me with a. With a shoot list so that I can get ready beforehand. Going to shop for ingredients. If I need to go get any props beforehand, I like to research looks for a particular dish that we're. That we're doing. You know, a lot. A lot of times they provide me with a mood board beforehand, you know, so. So there's a lot of prep that goes into it before you even switch the lights on, you know, so.
- [22:25]
A
Speaking of pressure, how you feeling about this, this podcast? Normally, as everyone knows in this audience who listens, you never speak ever. And Here you are just being little Billy Badass, doing your thing, talking about your level of work. You. You do a good job on the video that we did today, bro. Strikes, strikes. You hit strikes all day. Personally, I think you should be participating more doing this. I'm just saying you don't have to. Don't say. Shh. No, don't say a word. You don't have to say anything. But I'm telling you, this is something that you should get into a little bit more, and I think we should have a lot, you know, a lot more fun with this. With that said, Johnny, today is episode 194. We have six more to go. We're hitting 200. I don't know how you process that. We've actually never spoken about this together, but for me, it blows my mind the fact that the average podcast goes three episodes and they're out. We have a really great team with you and Pooch and Colantis now, and I'm going to throw in the two Thomases. Barker, Manzik. We have a really steady team. There's a bunch of people. Actually, there's another dozen chefs I should be mentioning right now. But the reality is what we're doing is pretty amazing. What you're doing is pretty amazing. How do you feel? And I hate talking about it like this. To tell you the truth. I almost feel like I'm whoring it out, but I'm not. I'm not. It's just exciting. What does this milestone mean to you personally?
- [24:08]
C
Yeah, I mean, we've come a long way, man, from when we started doing this to today. I'm just hoping and praying that, you know, God willing, we continue to progress and that we continue to bring in amazing partners like Rack. We've been talking about Rack today, you know, to work with us more in the future, and, you know, maybe we. We get to a place where I have a short list of guests that. That I would love to work with, you know?
- [24:39]
A
Like who?
- [24:40]
C
It's funny. Me and Manzik were just talking about this a couple days ago. I would love to. To shoot Aaron Franklin stuff.
- [24:48]
A
Oh, that would be badass, isn't it? You know, speak honestly. Speaking of Thomas Manzik, he's literally. He literally just sent me right now. I got two. Two pictures and a little text. He says, can we normalize? No AI picks ever for food.
- [25:04]
C
I totally agree. Actually, man, I think that's dishonest, man. AI with food.
- [25:08]
A
I think AI with any finished product.
- [25:10]
C
Well, so. So I don't mind AI for certain things. Like, so, for example, you know, let's say you're shooting a certain dish or product for a customer, but, you know, you need a background or something. I think that's okay as long as the hero of the shot is legit. You know, I don't, I don't think it's a bad thing to integrate AI into an image. But, but this session of Walk and
- [25:36]
A
Talk media is made possible by Citrus America, delivering fresh Florida citrus and juice solutions to food service professionals nationwide. Learn more@critrusamerica.com
- [25:50]
C
People putting full AI images out as if, you know, it's a dish they did is, is dishonest in my mind.
- [25:57]
A
I do not. I scroll past. I don't watch it, don't look at it. If it's AI created, I don't want it. Yeah. Even if it looks good. I, I, I think, I think the average person, going forward, I, I think most people are just going to tune out of that.
- [26:13]
C
I will. I think people are kind of getting sick of it already, man.
- [26:15]
A
Well, I've been sick of it from the beginning, but I like AI for workflow purposes. It's freaking amazing. Like, it's a lot. It is a life changer. Yeah, but like, people who are making future decisions based on, you know, what kind of, you know, AI production they can do. I don't, man. I just, I'm worthy. I mean, there's magazines out there that do that. The whole, you know, entire pieces are done in, in AI the article, the photos, everything. I can't get behind it. I just can't. Can't.
- [26:46]
C
I can't either.
- [26:47]
A
Not for me. But I will tell you this. June 8th, invite only, so if you
- [26:54]
C
get one, are we having AI dinner?
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A
It's an AI dinner. It's going to be AI delicious. Tampa Club, real life, in person. Pinch me. We're having a big shindig. It's going to be pretty dope. You got Cisco, Bush Brothers, Lombardi seafood, Crab island seafood dips, Southern ice house with a, with a sculpture ice. That's crazy. It is. So, I mean, there's going to be more, too. This is like the current list. So there's going to be a ton of food, ton of cocktails, and it's going to be just badass. Let me tell you something a little bit more Metro and Rack Porcelain will be donating product merchandise as a raffle at the event. So that's pretty exciting.
- [27:44]
C
That's so epic.
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A
It's is epic. It really is.
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C
Who else?
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A
I mean, honestly, dude, we are. So I'm gonna say blessed to be where we are. Hands down, 100. All right, so, I mean, I know what the music means. I know you know what the music means. Super excited to see the photographs. I'm actually pretty stoked about about this. The videos I'm gonna put out. John Hernandez, I have his images. How do people find you?
- [28:15]
C
You can find me on Instagram at Ibis images or@ibisimages.com yeah, and you know what?
- [28:22]
A
Why don't you build up your LinkedIn? I'm just saying, hey, people out there, look up John Hernandez. It's going to be hard to find him. There's 6 million John Hernandez. But if you go.
- [28:31]
C
But I'm connected to you, man.
- [28:32]
A
Exactly. So if you go to Carl Fadini, ride or walk a talk, you're going to find John. And you, you should follow him. Same thing on the Instagram. All right, man. I appreciate you, brother. Let's get. Let's get on out of here. And I will see you on side B. We are out. This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever find yourself playing the budgeting game? Well, with the name your price tool from Progressive, you can find options that fit your budget and potentially lower your bills. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law. Not available in all states.