In a future shaped by climate breakdown and extreme weather volatility, the current systems will be forced to change. Where does that leave fashion? My guest this week has ideas for "a profound structural shift away from fashion as trivialised, superficial and seasonal."

Indy Johar is the co-founder of Dark Matter Labs and a Professor of Practice at RMIT with the Planetary Civics Inquiry.

In his new paper, "The Future of Fashion, Toward an Entangled Economy" he outlines a whole new approach whereby "fashion is not simply worn, it is inhabited, augmented and co-stewarded. It is not just manufactured or marketed, it is programmed, maintained and integrated into complex civil, ecological, and technoligical systems. The garment becomes more than a product - it becomes a living protocol, a cultural interface, a microclimate shelter and a shared asset."

In this rollercoaster convo, we talk about everything from what he wears in the plane, to why he studied architecture, the climate reality and how we might design a better future, what it means to embrace 'interbecoming', and just what your Tshirt might cost if all the the externalities of producing it were factored into the price tag. Buckle up, you might want to listen twice!

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