Four years after we first met her in our studio - just days after her victim impact statement in Alison Mack’s NXIVM trial - Jessica Joan is back.

Since we last spoke, Jessica shared her story on the Hulu docuseries “How I Escaped My Cult”, and a lot has shifted: in her healing, in what “justice” means, and in what accountability actually looks like over time.

This follow-up conversation was prompted by our recent interview with journalist Natalie Robehmed, host of the podcast “Alison After NXIVM”, where listeners hear Alison speak publicly about NXIVM and her life post-prison. After that episode, it felt important to come back to Jessica - to hear directly from someone harmed by Alison, and to explore the messy questions of empathy, forgiveness, and what we’re really asking for when we say we want “accountability.”

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