Apple Silicon Has Competition!

Summary

Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Apple Silicon Has Competition!
Date: June 5, 2026
Hosts: Marques Brownlee (MKBHD), Andrew Cunningham, David Pierce, Adam Doud, Ellis Hamburger

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Episode Overview

This week’s episode dives into the pre-WWDC (Apple’s Developer Conference) tech landscape, focusing on the mounting competition facing Apple Silicon (notably from Nvidia’s new RTX Spark), shifting trends in wearables (with deep discussions about Fitbit, Garmin, and smartwatches), Google’s evolving AI search controls, and the broader implications of the new crop of AI-powered hardware and platforms.

The hosts tackle:

• Previews and predictions for Apple’s WWDC 2026
• Nvidia’s aggressive move to challenge Apple Silicon with RTX Spark
• Fitbit’s exploding popularity and the evolving accessory (and “watchmaxing”) culture
• Frustrations and feature debates around wearable fitness platforms
• Google’s new options for website owners to opt-out of AI overviews
• Microsoft and Google’s latest plays in the AI and developer tooling arenas
• A wild, informative tangent breaking down the looming SpaceX IPO and the rapid evolution of tech-industry economics
• Listener-friendly tech trivia and plenty of lively banter

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. WWDC 2026 Preview & Apple’s AI Plans

[42:02–47:40]

• All Eyes on Siri: The main WWDC rumor is a massive Siri revamp, with the expectation that Apple will give Siri supercharged AI abilities and integrate it deeper into the iOS ecosystem—especially leveraging on-device and private cloud AI models to address privacy anxieties.
  • “I just generally expect them to give Siri a bunch of abilities to dig into your iPhone … use that contact data, calendar data, whatever.” – Marques [44:41]
• The group expects that, to differentiate, Apple will focus on "the assistant that works best on iPhone," leveraging unprecedented access to device data (as compared to ChatGPT or Gemini, which are app-limited on iOS).
• Privacy Messaging: Anticipation that Apple will hammer home the privacy story, emphasizing that AI runs locally and user data stays private.
  • “They’re going to have to reassure people over and over and over again that even though it’s using the data on your phone … it’s not going anywhere.” – David [45:08]
• WatchOS & Health: Predictions are for small WatchOS updates, maybe a new fitness metric or smarter coaching if powered by the new Siri. The hosts joke about Apple “Sherlocking” third-party apps like Bevel that bring Whoop-like fitness features to the Apple Watch.
  • “Maybe Siri is a fitness coach based on your health data.” – Marques [55:47]
  • “Can Siri even set two timers?” – Andrew [56:04]

Memorable moment:

• The hosts lampoon Apple's macOS naming strategy, riffing on the increasingly obscure California references:
  • “Monterey is not obscure.” – David [57:28]
  • “Most people aren’t from California... Most people are aware of California, but not intimately aware of all the things!” – Marques [57:39]

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2. Fitbit’s Popularity & Wearable Fitness Tracking

[10:02–20:18]

• Fitbit Air Mania: Fitbit Air sales are surging thanks to price, simplicity, and social trends. Users are “watchmaxing”—combining traditional watches with fitness trackers—often by strapping a regular watch to the Fitbit Air band (sometimes by flipping the tracker under the wrist, NATO style).
  • “A lot of people need to flip the Fitbit Air upside down and then it... goes against your wrist instead of the top.” – David [12:00]
• Google published official fitment specs to support 3rd-party accessories, opening the door for a boom in bands and attachments.
  • “...Fitbit put out official specifications for the Fitbit Air. So that anybody can make adapters... which is amazing.” – David [13:37]
• Compromises and Preferences: The group debates wearing multiple devices vs. combining features into one wearable. Adam champions wearing a mechanical watch on one wrist and a fitness band on the other, while others lament having to double-up.
  • “It’s fine to just wear two things.” – Adam [15:15]
• App Frustrations: Ellis shares “Did They Even Test This?” about Garmin’s clunky workout tracking and exercise search, humorously lamenting both his fitness journey and the UI.
  • “I literally cannot figure out for the life of me how to find any exercises in this [Garmin app].” – Ellis [05:56]
• Philosophy of Minimal Features: The crew debates whether minimal fitness trackers like Fitbit Air should support features like notifications (most agree it should be optional with a clear opt-in).

Notable quote:

• “Google wants me to care about the AI coaching. I don’t. I just want to know if I took this many steps today.” – Adam [11:14]

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3. Google’s New AI Search Opt-Out for Websites

[31:02–35:36]

• Google launches a toggle for webmasters to prevent their sites/content from being used in AI Overviews or “AI Mode.”
  • “If you decide to opt out, you will not receive traffic or impressions from generative AI features and they also promise it won't affect your search rankings….” – Andrew [31:08]
• The move is partly spurred by regulatory pressure in the UK and is rolling out there first.
• Open questions about impact and efficacy:
  • Will publishers actually opt out when faced with traffic stats?
  • What about data already scraped and in models? (Consensus: Google can’t/won’t remove what’s already in the ‘black box’.)
  • “It’s kind of like a black hole ... you can’t pull out one of the things. Once it’s in there, it’s in there.” – Marques [35:10]

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4. Nvidia RTX Spark vs. Apple Silicon – The Battle is On

[59:19–67:18]

• Nvidia has announced the RTX Spark “superchip”: ARM-based, all-in-one SoC for laptops/desktops—finally a direct answer to Apple’s M-series.
  • “They’re the big bear in the room.” – Marques [59:55]
• Boasts: 20 CPU cores, 6,144 GPU cores, up to RTX 5070 graphics, up to 128GB unified memory, “all-day” battery, 3nm process, and supercharged AI/agent workflows.
• The hosts are cautiously optimistic but deeply skeptical:
  • Potential for greatness if the platform is truly optimized … but Windows-ARM has flopped before.
  • “The window for how good or bad this could be is enormous....” – Marques [62:33]
• Pricing rumors are sky-high; prior dev kits went from $3,000 to $6,300.
• Early complaints: No Linux support at launch (a problem for devs); “all-day” battery likely questionable.
• With major OEMs on board, it’s a “wait-and-see” game for real-world performance and software support.
• Comparing to the Apple experience: Surface Ultra hardware is promising, but Windows remains less “hard-to-break” than macOS. Microsoft promises Homebrew and more developer-friendly tools soon.

Notable quotes:

• “With Nvidia though, being at the forefront and worth a pissload of money… there is a higher chance for sure.” – Andrew [66:17]
• “I want to be optimistic. I want to see when they come out, hopefully we get these benchmarks going.” – Marques [69:12]

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5. Microsoft’s Agent OS, Cloud AI, and Internal Shifts

[74:04–80:31]

• Project Solara (Agent OS): Microsoft Build shows off a new OS for “agents”—futuristic AI helpers—built on Android for all sorts of devices (badges, smart displays, etc.).
  • “My take on this is that they are trying to build the future platform... like Meta was trying to do with the Metaverse.” – David [75:10]
• Clamping Down on AI Coding Costs: Microsoft, despite distributing Claude AI to employees, is now forcing them to move to its in-house Copilot due to costs and competitive concerns.
  • “They sped run that. It’s not like they’re going to force them to use Codex... It’s like they’re just like, no, no bots.” – Ellis [78:31]

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6. Tech Industry Economics: SpaceX, Anthropic, IPO Mania

[81:14–88:12]

• The team walks through SpaceX's plan to IPO, describing the financial engineering that might force index funds (and thus Americans with 401(k)s) to inadvertently buy into a money-losing conglomerate of SpaceX, X (Twitter), and xAI.

  • “If you have a 401k that tracks the NASDAQ 100, you automatically have to invest in SpaceX.” – David [83:40]
  • “The whole idea is that Elon and everyone at SpaceX knows that SpaceX is the most overvalued public company in the world.” – Ellis [83:34]

• Wild speculation: “Bubble” risk is very real for AI companies.

  • “If the air bubble does burst, it'll probably happen in the next six months. ... We’re speedrunning this whole tech cycle!” – David/Andrew [85:51/86:02]

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7. Rapid-Fire: Fun Moments, Tangents, & Trivia

[36:13, 89:22 onward]

• Multiple trivia questions about Google’s history of failed platforms and product pivots.
• Ongoing riffing about obscure macOS code names, standardization, and fitness device accessories.
• Adam’s PSA (with group agreement): “Not financial advice.”

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• "All eyes on Siri [from Apple] this year... They're just gonna have to reassure people every step that your information stays on your device." – Marques & David [44:41, 45:08]
• “I literally cannot figure out for the life of me how to find any exercises in this [Garmin app].” – Ellis [05:56]
• “Maybe Siri is a fitness coach based on your health data.” – Marques [55:47]
• “They're the big bear in the room.” – Marques [59:55]
• “The window for how good or bad this could be is enormous...” – Marques [62:33]
• "I want to be optimistic. I want to see when they come out, hopefully we get these benchmarks going." – Marques [69:12]
• "If you have a 401k that tracks the NASDAQ 100, you automatically have to invest in SpaceX." – David [83:40]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------|--------------| | Garmin/Fitbit/“Did They Even Test This?” | 03:02–20:18 | | Fitbit Air + Traditional Watch Discussion | 11:28–20:20 | | Google AI Search Opt-Out | 31:02–35:36 | | Nvidia RTX Spark vs Apple Silicon | 59:19–67:18 | | Apple WWDC 2026 Preview & Siri Rumors | 42:02–47:40 | | Microsoft’s Project Solara & AI Strategy | 74:04–80:31 | | SpaceX IPO Financial Deep Dive | 81:14–88:12 | | Tech Trivia and Google’s Social Fails | 89:22+ |

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Episode Tone & Style

As always, the episode blends deep technical analysis with the group’s trademark irreverent humor, casual riffing, and a willingness to question their own (and Silicon Valley’s!) assumptions. The hosts oscillate between cautious optimism and pointed skepticism about the promises of new tech, both celebrating innovation and warning about hype.

They remain relatable, joking about “watchmaxing,” being anti-consumer about notifications, or needing help setting up Do Not Disturb routines—reminding listeners that even the biggest tech brains have ordinary headaches.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Tuned In

This summary covers the major takeaways and spirited debates from a jam-packed episode, providing both a look ahead to WWDC (the most Apple-heavy part of the year) and a measured breakdown of the coming Apple Silicon challengers—especially Nvidia’s RTX Spark, a potential game-changer.

The episode is ideal for anyone interested in the intersection of hardware innovation, personal tech habits, AI hype cycles, and the sometimes maddening, often hilarious state of the modern tech industry.

Transcript

[Marques Brownlee]

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[David Pierce]

California.

[Marques Brownlee]

Sierra. Hi. Sierra, California.

[David Pierce]

California.

[Marques Brownlee]

Mojave.

[David Pierce]

California.

[Marques Brownlee]

Catalina, California. Big Sur. Now we're just obscure. Monterey.

[David Pierce]

Monterey is not obscure.

[Marques Brownlee]

Ventura is not.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Ventura is not obscure.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yes. Ventura.

[Adam Doud]

I honestly didn't know Ventura was a

[David Pierce]

place because you guys are not from California.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Exactly.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Little obscure.

[Marques Brownlee]

Most people aren't from California.

[Ellis Hamburger]

But then actually Apple is statistically in the United States. Actually, most people are from California.

[Andrew Cunningham]

No.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yo, what is up, people of the Internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform podcast. We're your hosts. I'm Marques.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I'm Andrew.

[David Pierce]

I'm David.

[Marques Brownlee]

So we've got a big week for you. It's the week before wwdc. So we'll have some predictions, some stuff to talk about. We've got a lot of Watch talk. Also, Apple, Silicon competitors are starting to pop up and this is part of a bunch of stuff that's competing with Apple's world. But Nvidia, rtx, Spark, we gotta talk about that.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

And then Google is letting website owners opt out of AI overviews and some Microsoft news. So let's just dive right in.

[David Pierce]

All right, but first of all, if

[Marques Brownlee]

you haven't already subscribed on YouTube, this is definitely a shout out. I know a lot of people actually don't subscribe, but then it shows the video when we launch on the homepage. Anyway, because you just go to the homepage. But if you want to make sure you definitely see every new episode, subscribe and hit the little bell and then when it comes out, you'll be able to go, oh, pod on time. Or oh, pod late or chapter's working. That's actually here before chapters broke.

[David Pierce]

That's your alarm at me.

[Adam Doud]

I just came here to have a good time, record a podcast. I feel very attacked right now.

[David Pierce]

Well, that bell will be your alarm to go do your dishes. So you can just wait until the bell goes off and then you go to your dishes.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah. And if you're subscribed, you'll always get here before the chapters break.

[David Pierce]

That's right.

[Marques Brownlee]

That's very important. Yep. But first, did they even test this?

[Andrew Cunningham]

I think Ellis has one for us today.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I do, and I'm kind of nervous because I sort of feel like whenever I have a. Did they even test this? It's just on me.

[David Pierce]

Did you even Google this?

[Ellis Hamburger]

I have a few, but you know. Okay. So I have been trying to broaden my worldview and by that I mean use non Apple products more and more lately. And you know, eagle eyed viewers of the podcast may have noticed I've had a series of different Garmins on my wrist for the past few weeks. Today it's the Fenix 8 OLED dinner plate edition.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I think solar, right?

[Ellis Hamburger]

Not Solar, the AMOLED AMOLED X BEN 10. Because this thing is ginormous but. And I don't know if other Garmin users do this. One thing that I really like about the Garmin, I think maybe is that you, when you do strength workouts, you could put sets, reps, exercises, weights in and then it's like nice thighs or whatever. I don't know. To be honest, I can't figure out

[David Pierce]

how to use thigh data.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I've never used that. I've used Garmin for years. And the sets and reps thing, I always just my strength workouts. I essentially set up a bunch of different cardio workouts with just names of what I'm doing that day. So I just know.

[Ellis Hamburger]

So the general, that's what I've been doing for a long time too. But I was curious if I could get some sort of insight into. I don't know, I even saying this out loud, I'm like, dude, what are you doing? But I was just curious about the whole, the whole platform. And when you're doing upper body workouts, it's reasonably accurate. Like I would say it gets the right exercise 75% of the time and gets the reps right about 50% of the time. I do like the interface on the amoled Phoenix. It makes it very easy to like, change what, how many sets of reps. But after a workout, if you would like to correct Garmin's mistakes, you must do it in the Garmin Connect app, which is already not awesome.

[Andrew Cunningham]

It's an app.

[Adam Doud]

It's an app.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It is a app. But the thing that I did to even test this is I have found the search bar to. When you want to correct a work, an exercise, to search for the correct exercise is the most difficult to use search bar I have ever used in my entire life. I don't know. I cannot figure out the keyword logic. I cannot figure out anything about it.

[Adam Doud]

Have you searched in Gmail recently?

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's so much worse than Gmail. So yesterday, yesterday I was doing one legged leg presses with like a stability pad and I had given. I knew there was not going to be a stability pad option. Right, I'm in pt, I'm fixing my ankles, I'm fixing my calves. And so I was like, okay. So I googled leg, or excuse me, I put leg into the search bar. Nothing came up. I put press into the search bar. 50 million options came up. Obviously, because of all the pressing.

[Andrew Cunningham]

That does make sense.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I put leg press into the search bar and leg press showed up. Not what I'm looking for. I did one legged leg press. So I put one leg, nothing. Again, I put one in. Nothing comes up. I put one arm. Just because I put single nothing. It's just like, I literally cannot figure out for the life of me how to find any exercises in this. And then it's compounded by the fact that, like, I'm what I think a lot of people would call like a fitness moron. Like, I really don't. I'm still like learning what I'm doing in the gym, which I think makes me a great candidate for a product like this. But I'll be like, I don't know what this exercise is called. And then I'll try to go into Google and be like, exercise where you're on one foot and you take the thing and you swing it and like, you know, like. And it'll just be like, that's a Czechoslovakian, double, triple, Bulgarian, Bulgarian leg. Actually, to Garmin's credit, Bulgarian split squats are in the app. And that was.

[David Pierce]

Those are very common.

[Ellis Hamburger]

If you search Bulgarian, it does actually come up.

[David Pierce]

That is like the hardest exercise you could possibly do so I fall over every time.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Oh, have you guys used the hydro tube with those? In my pt, they gave. They give.

[Marques Brownlee]

Is that for balance?

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's sick. Marques, that sounds.

[Marques Brownlee]

I'm picturing something, but I want you to describe it.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Okay, picture like a four foot hot dog filled with 15 to 30 pounds of liquid, depending on how much it's like filled that day. And it's sloshing around and so you put it over your shoulders.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Like that sounds sweet.

[Adam Doud]

That sounds awesome.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Is that what that's called?

[Andrew Cunningham]

Barbell.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Boom. Like a barbell. And then not only do you have the weight of the water, but it's sloshing around. So you have to activate your core and your shins.

[Marques Brownlee]

I need a four foot. I need a four foot barbell filled with water. Sounds really useful.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It was sick. But obviously there's no way to put that in your. In your garbage anyway, so I would like to amend this. Did they even test this to please help.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I mean, to be fair, someone tweet

[Ellis Hamburger]

at me and tell me what I'm doing wrong. Because it has to be me, right? Like, there's no way this premier fitness app has.

[David Pierce]

Is this.

[Marques Brownlee]

I think it's a little bit of both. The thing is there's, there's, it's all about like you say you're a beginner and there's people who are more advanced. Like every exercise has a variation and a different name and to some extent I just kind of lump a lot of different exercises into. Into like a bigger category because it almost doesn't matter when I'm logging it. So if something is just in pt, I'll just label it all as PT and whatever.

[David Pierce]

I just.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Or like, if leg press was still in there, even though you're doing single leg leg press with a whatever. I'd probably just label it leg press. But you prove that the search function is broken because you typed in leg press, you typed in leg and nothing came up. Right. And then you typed in leg press press.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Everything come up, but. And it's like also it's like, am I crazy? Like, I feel like a single leg. A single leg leg press is not like a arcane, mysterious exercise.

[David Pierce]

No, it's pretty common.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah. So anyway, I guess I also. Without turning this into the waveform fitness podcast, when you guys are tracking strength stuff, are you looking at macro data like, like data across large periods of time? Cause that was my thing is like if I log all these workouts after a month, I will hopefully see some sort of macro trends. That I'm interested in, but I'm curious. I don't even know what I'm looking at.

[David Pierce]

What kind of data are you trying to look for?

[Ellis Hamburger]

I don't know.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I'm just.

[David Pierce]

I was sort of passive overload kind of thing.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I was just sort of hoping I would log it and then the Garmin app would be like, here's what you need to know. But it doesn't seem like it's ever going to be like, here's what you need.

[David Pierce]

I highly doubt the Garmin app is tuned to actually give you advice. Okay, so probably just for hard data.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I wouldn't be surprised if it's coming soon though. With some sort of AI coaching. Because of their screenless band that's rumored

[Ellis Hamburger]

for this year, Garmin has fighter jet money. Why do they need me to pay a subscription? That's ridiculous.

[David Pierce]

The Fitbit Air keeps winning. Keep. Stays winning.

[Ellis Hamburger]

One more thing about. About fitness.

[David Pierce]

Okay.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I successfully heard from one of my friends and I don't know if this was the intended result. One of my non techie friends, she said that we successfully de. Influenced her from buying a Fitbit Air.

[Marques Brownlee]

You know what's funny about that's so funny. I just got back from California for an unnamed shoot, but while I was there. Yeah, you guys will find out soon enough what that was for. But while I was there, probably four or five people between the airports I was at and all the events that I went to said they pointed at the Fitbit on the wrist and they said, I got this because of you.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Really? Yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

And it was a lot of Fitbits and I was surprised at how many Fitbits.

[David Pierce]

But yeah, they're apparently selling like a trend, an insane amount.

[Adam Doud]

It's the perfect price for a splurge. Like, okay, I'll. I'll do like a whoop. You have to think about or for

[Andrew Cunningham]

everyone thinking about a whoop and then saw that and were like, no, I.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I was saying the opposite. Like she was going to buy one until she listened to the wave.

[Marques Brownlee]

That's what I was expecting more of.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

What was the reason that she didn't buy it? Because the app is so bad.

[Ellis Hamburger]

We said it didn't work.

[David Pierce]

Well, it works. But the, the Gemini.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah, it was that. It was that the, the whole app experience was.

[David Pierce]

I mean, it's so. I've read so many people' at this point. Like Christian Selig put a blog post out about it. His takeaway was exactly the same. It was like, this is a really, really great product that the app doesn't really work at all, but it's still a great product.

[Andrew Cunningham]

And that's just.

[David Pierce]

That was my takeaway, too. It's just weird. It's weird that I can still recommend it and also really enjoy it and also be like, the app is crap.

[Adam Doud]

As long as it does the basics. That's all I care about. Google wants me to care about the AI coaching. I don't like.

[David Pierce]

Cool.

[Adam Doud]

That's cute that it's there, but I just want to know if I took this many steps today and, like, it does that. So, yeah, it's a good product, but the app is very.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

Well, speaking of Fitbit, this is convenient because this was next on our list. So Fitbit has seen all the people that have been. I guess Google has seen that the people have been talking about the Fitbit Air. There's a. There's this trend going around on social media where people are attaching traditional watches to the Fitbit Air strap. Yeah. Which looks pretty cool. A lot of. Sometimes it doesn't look quite right, but sometimes it looks okay.

[Andrew Cunningham]

They're doing it by flipping. The tracker part goes on the underside of their wrist.

[David Pierce]

Yes.

[Andrew Cunningham]

And then looped through. Adam, am I saying this NATO style for some of them, which just. It slips through the lugs, right. On a watch.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, actually.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Sorry. I got it. I freaking love standards. And if I. I'm gonna fact check this out. The episode, because it's something I. I'm pretty sure the NATO strap is, like, unbelievably specified. Like, they're all exactly the same so that countries in NATO can just buy insane bulk orders of straps and know they fit all military watches that they wear.

[Adam Doud]

Oh.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's like. It's part of the insane. Like, one of the big points of NATO is being able to, like, bulk order everything to, like, these insane standards and, like, share everything. And then this random watch strap is just one of the cool, standardized things we got out of that. Sorry. I love standards.

[David Pierce]

North Atlantic Treaty Organization. We love it. So, anyway, Dan Seifer, who used to work at the Verge, now works at the. Google shared a photo online of him using a traditional watch attached to his

[Adam Doud]

Fitbit Air, a Timex Marlin.

[David Pierce]

Timex Marlin.

[Marques Brownlee]

Beautiful watch.

[David Pierce]

Marlin is a fish. Just so you guys know. And it looked pretty cool. Adam asked him, does this actually work? Because a lot of people need to flip the Fitbit Air upside down, and then it kind of goes against your wrist instead of the top of your wrist. It's the bottom of your wrist. Yeah. And he said, it's not officially supported, but it works fine. Which is very interesting, very surprising. And so as of yesterday, actually, as of this morning, Fitbit put out official specifications for the Fitbit Air. So that anybody can make adapters, can make straps, can make, you know, bicep attachments or whatever, which is amazing.

[Marques Brownlee]

That's what we were predicting.

[David Pierce]

Well, we were predicting that the third party market would exist regardless of if Google officially allowed it to exist.

[Marques Brownlee]

And then Google went, let me make that a little easier for you.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, I think that they saw the things that people were doing with it and they were like, you know what? We're going to officially make. Make this work. And so that's very, very, very exciting because we are all kind of wrist maxing right now. We've been just like, testing.

[Marques Brownlee]

Speak for yourself. Show the camera. Show the camera. Cause this is.

[David Pierce]

Well, this is what you did last week.

[Marques Brownlee]

This is what I was doing last week. Exactly. Almost the same. You have the bulky Apple watch.

[David Pierce]

I had the smaller one, the series

[Marques Brownlee]

11, but yeah, the triple. Why do you have all three on now?

[David Pierce]

Okay, so. Because after I put out my Fitbit Air review on my blog, Whoop freaked out. And they emailed me and they were like, can you just try it? And I was like, I'll try it. And to be fair, I should try it because I shouldn't be comparing it to Whoop if I hadn't tried. That's the reason you're trying the Whoop too? Yep. And so I'm giving it a shot for like a couple of weeks. And yeah, WW that's how they get. We'll see. We'll see.

[Adam Doud]

I'm not $300 a year after that.

[David Pierce]

I'm not paying that money, dude. There's no way. There's no way. It doesn't matter how good it is. Um, yeah, and then Dub Dub is coming up next week, so I have to wear the Ultra. So I'm just like, I'm just fitness maxing right now. Yeah. Um, anyway, so, yeah, I'm very excited for the strap ecosystem to sort of blow up for this. Like we said before, we'd love, like, bicep straps. We love, like, just different types of watch adapters because we really want traditional watches to be able to be smart but still be traditional watches. Adam, are you wearing your traditional watch on top of your Fitbit Air?

[Adam Doud]

Absolutely not. I'm not a psycho. It's fine to just wear two things.

[Marques Brownlee]

Is it okay?

[Adam Doud]

It's okay as long as they're Both not watches. Like, the issue with the smart watches was that I would have a regular watch on my left hand and then a smartwatch in my right hand, which I only want for tracking, but it also tells the time. So now I'm like dual wristing for no real reason. But that's the beauty of like the Whoop and the Fitbit and the Amaze Fit. Like all these things are just straps. Like, it's fine. It's just another accessory like a bracelet that I wear on the offhand. And then on my regular hand I'll just wear my typical watch.

[Marques Brownlee]

Hearing you say that makes me feel less self conscious about it because I don't want to wear two things, I just want to wear one.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Oh, you're not even wearing an Apple watch.

[Marques Brownlee]

I'm not even wearing the Apple watch right now.

[Adam Doud]

As long as it's got two of the same thing. That's where I'm like, I get torn off.

[Marques Brownlee]

I was like, I had what David had. I had three things at once, which is obviously insane. But if I have one watch on. See, the thing is, it's just when they're overlapped a lot. So like the functionality of an Apple watch and the functionality of a traditional watch overlap massively. So it looks silly, but if you just have a fitness tracker on, but you also have an Apple watch, I think everyone also is aware that they're both fitness trackers. Cause the Apple watch is a fitness tracker to some extent too. So it still feels silly. But they do look different enough that it's okay.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah, I think that's why people like the straps. Totally agree. Like it can be on your other wrist. I don't think it probably could be on the same wrist, but I'd probably put it on two different ones. I was the whole flipping it on the bottom part of your wrist though. Not only. I mean, I'm wondering how accurate it is, but also who cares about the accuracy that much if it's at least consistently inaccurate, which is what we've always talked about. I just think that seems really uncomfortable to have when you're like, maybe I'm a nerd and just typing at a computer all day. That feels awful. That's why my Garmin always had a Velcro strap. That's why I really don't like bulky metal clasps on the bottom of watches. So to have a whole tracker there feels like a lot.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, that is not comfortable. I will say.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah, I don't think so.

[David Pierce]

But definitely more comfortable to be on the top.

[Andrew Cunningham]

It's kind of. Yeah, it looks kind of wild, but, you know, the fact that people are doing it, it seems kind of fun. I don't know if that will actually be a thing a lot of people do.

[Marques Brownlee]

I just googled it real quick because I was curious, and this is the AI overview. But it does make a lot of sense of why it's advised not to wear it on the bottom of your wrist. The optical sensor, since it's optical, it's just about like having a seal with the light. So it's just a thing up against your wrist, and it's pointing at your wrist so flat. When you wear it underneath your wrist, the tendons running through your fingers cause a lot of light leak because you move those tendons a lot and move your fingers, and so it can introduce a lot of noise or light leak in that sensor.

[David Pierce]

That makes sense.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Watching tendons is kind of crazy.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

So that's all I get that that may be noisier and a little bit less reliable for the fitness.

[Andrew Cunningham]

That's not what I was expecting. But I do remember in. I think it was des fit review, he said that the Fitbit air. One thing is because it is thinner than the whoop, an issue sometimes was that because the tracker is so close to the edge, if it seemed to kind of poke up, the light leak inside of that could screw it up. Where the whoop is so much wider, there's less of a chance of light leak coming in.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Interesting. I wouldn't have thought that. I almost would have thought, oh, my veins. I can see on the bottom. Can it read my heart rate through my veins? But that's just not how it works.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, it makes. It makes intuitive sense because, like, oh, you feel your pulse there. So, like, obviously, you should still be able to get my heart rate, but yeah, there's a bunch more that you're reading too.

[David Pierce]

So.

[Adam Doud]

Yeah, the optical sensor also needs more, like, muscle tissue, I believe. So, like, that's why the bicep straps are so popular, because there's a lot of, like, muscle there for the optical sensor to read from versus the wrist, which is, like you said, Mark has a bunch of tendons and stuff.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, that would work for me if I had bicep muscles.

[Andrew Cunningham]

All right, so we don't.

[David Pierce]

You talking about.

[Marques Brownlee]

I don't have Andrew's arms.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I just.

[David Pierce]

I don't.

[Marques Brownlee]

It'll just fall off.

[David Pierce]

I don't know. Your arms are bigger than mine, Marcus.

[Andrew Cunningham]

This. They're fine. So Adam will not be doing the.

[Adam Doud]

No, it's also just like it introduces another layer of friction for me because I change watches a lot. Like there are times when I'll get home from work and like part of my routine is switching out a watch to like an at home watch, you know. I know Marquez crazy, but that's part well so like I, I get home, I plug in my phone, I put my Pixel watch on so that I can leave my phone the other room charging and I still get messages. So that's part of my thing.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I will say this new Fitbit accessory like specifications going out for more people to do it I think is what seems whoop is like you can get different color bands, you can get different color hardware. The hardware is only that metal clasp, right?

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Andrew Cunningham]

How easy the Fitbit Air is to pop out into another band and having multiples of them is so sick. And when there's a thousand different versions of that, I miss that for probably all under 30 bucks is like awesome to be able to mix it up.

[Marques Brownlee]

When's the Fitbit underwear coming?

[David Pierce]

I don't think that's coming.

[Adam Doud]

Someone's already working on it.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Are you doing a review on it?

[Marques Brownlee]

No. But if it helps make it happen, maybe.

[David Pierce]

We made duct tape. That's all I got to say. That's true. Do whatever you want.

[Andrew Cunningham]

True.

[David Pierce]

Speaking of regular watches that can be smart in some ways.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yes. Speaking of not watchmaxing, but maybe watch semi watch semi watchmaxing. I was going to say there's been a. It's been a long time since there was no garment on this podcast, but Ellis is now the garment. I've been wearing one for like three years straight pretty much. But I took it off and now I have what this is the Casio F91W. I've never been a Casio fan, but I saw this video the other day. I don't have a problem with Casio. I think they're sick.

[Adam Doud]

I love Casio.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I've just never worn one or I don't have the nostalgia for one. But I got this video on my recommended the other day called A New Kind of Smartwatch by Cam Shand and I sent it to Adam and then winded up watching myself. But this company called Oli Watch makes a replacement board that can fit inside these Casios that are like $25 and essentially turn it into a smartwatch. Now I'm going to use smartwatch in extreme quotes here because it is a smartwatch that simultaneously this person who's running the project has done a million things for. And it still does almost nothing.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah. What does it. How do you.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Let me explain really quick on how I do it. You essentially open the watch up, replace the board completely. So it keeps the original screen, the original LED light.

[Marques Brownlee]

Okay.

[Andrew Cunningham]

All the original things. And then it puts a new board in that gives it Bluetooth capabilities that now lets it. Can your phone control the board? So I can connect to my phone via Bluetooth and give it a bunch of different features. Now, some of these features, you know, it's. There's still no vibration motor. There's still no.

[Marques Brownlee]

Curious what features you.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Heart rate sensor. Heart rate sensor. So time zones. It can do time zones. It can automatically sync times with your phone. Pretty cool. It can use. It does have a gesture mode, which means I have a step tracker now on it, which is pretty cool. Probably wildly inaccurate.

[Marques Brownlee]

So it's kind of hacking into the fact that it has a gesture like an accelerometer to detect something.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah, I think the new board has an accelerometer.

[David Pierce]

Compare the steps to your phone. Steps.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Like I should. If I should honestly probably wear my Garmin for like a day and do it just because I almost never carry my phone with me, I leave it all the time to see what that is. I'm almost positive it does have a stopwatch and alarm, which the Casio has already. But since it's connected to my phone, I can set it up in my phone and it can mark things after I've done them. So if I do a. If I run the stopwatch and then stop it, it tracks that in the app and I can go back and edit what that may have been. Okay. Which is pretty cool. That's pretty solid. These are all the different faces that you can activate or not activate. You can just go up and down through all the differents. I have my step counter, stopwatch, timer, alarm. That's all I carry.

[David Pierce]

Those are.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Those are faces. These are different faces. There's like. You can play blackjack. Heart rate, heart rate, temperature. Wait, wait, wait. Hold on.

[David Pierce]

Blackjack on the watch.

[Andrew Cunningham]

You can play blackjack.

[David Pierce]

That's crazy.

[Andrew Cunningham]

The heart rate is.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Monitor your heart rate while you play blackjack.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I don't think so. Because I'm pretty sure the way the heart rate works on this is it starts a timer where you hold your neck, count the amount of pulses, and then it calculates for you what your heart rate is. Very hacky way of doing it. Temperature, I have found, basically says 100 all of the time because it's definitely just my skin temperature. There's. I Can one thing that's cool is it can change the rgb, the LED to full rgb. All of the different things. There's things like raised to wake. The reason I think it's so cool is I love tinkering. Putting this together was super fun even though it only took like 10 minutes. The the board is 50 bucks. I believe it's by a singular person in Canada making and sending all of these out to the point where if you look for shipping updates he just says they will be shipped out in a week. And by that I mean I ship all of them on Friday. So no matter when you order it, it will ship out on Friday. That's how small this is. But he did release a roadmap that looks like he is trying to add notifications in Q2. Just for you Andrew. Just for me. I don't know how he's going to do it. There's no vibration motor probably through a chime or I'm hoping the LED or some sort of symbol on the watch.

[David Pierce]

But yeah, I have three Casios and none of them are supported unfortunately. But this is an official plea to please support them.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Which ones do you have plea out there?

[David Pierce]

I definitely have the a 1200 world timer and then my most recent one I don't know the model number of but if you are the Ollie.

[Marques Brownlee]

What is it?

[Andrew Cunningham]

Ollie watch.

[David Pierce]

Ollie watch. If you're the watch guy email me and I'll tell you.

[Andrew Cunningham]

David.com yeah it works with a couple different ones. Casio's got a million different watches. I'm definitely missing quite a few features on my Garmin Ellis. I don't know if you've gotten used to the flashlight on your Phoenix yet. If you double tap the top left button it should activate a flashlight and oh my God. The best part about it is if you scroll down it can be a red flashlight. Oh it is primo for like waking up in the middle of the night and having to go to the bathroom without tripping over everything but also without blinding yourself.

[David Pierce]

That's awesome.

[Andrew Cunningham]

It's weirdly the thing I miss the most.

[Adam Doud]

Walking Zuzu at night in winter when I'm picking up her poop when she just went in some leaves that I don't know where it landed. That flashlight is so clutch.

[Andrew Cunningham]

It's so good. I miss that so much. I'm going to miss. I leave my phone places all the time. People in this office can can attest

[Adam Doud]

to the amount of times I've seen it in the bathroom.

[Andrew Cunningham]

So they say they are not in the roadmap, they are not going to try and add like ping your phone. But if they somehow get notifications going this with maybe a Fitbit error might be my new go to.

[Adam Doud]

Not a whoop.

[Andrew Cunningham]

No that I said I'm not going to say anything bad about whoop today to myself. That's where I end this right now.

[David Pierce]

Wait, so why do you need it to be smart if you also have the Fitbit error track?

[Andrew Cunningham]

Health tracking, sleep tracking.

[David Pierce]

But the Fibon also does all the tracking that that can do.

[Andrew Cunningham]

This does like no tracking. It does step tracking.

[David Pierce]

So what do you want that for?

[Andrew Cunningham]

Tells time.

[David Pierce]

But then why do you need the smart board notifications.

[Adam Doud]

Notifications is what he really wants.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah, I'm okay.

[Adam Doud]

You're.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I have a bone to pick with. Why is everyone so against notifications on Fitbit Air?

[David Pierce]

There's two I don't.

[Andrew Cunningham]

You can turn it off. You got. I feel like everyone here is actively asking to not include like it already has the capability to do this because it has a vibration motor. So asking for it not to have it is just asking for it. Ye not have a feature. But that would because you don't want

[David Pierce]

it significantly reduce the battery life, number one. Number two, the whole point of a screenless device is that you want to forget about it, but it's just going to remind you all the time that it's there.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah, turn it off. If you don't want to use it, why would you not want the feature to have the option to turn it on for people who would want it?

[Adam Doud]

I do think that having the option is nice and yeah, I understand we should have more customizability options like that. But this is my point. I think that it's almost a useless feature because there is no screen. You will only be able to know what one notification is.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah. As your phone vibrating.

[Adam Doud]

Yeah, it's like you can't. I mean I would do like one vibrate for text, two for phone, maybe

[Andrew Cunningham]

one vibrate for text, constant vibrate for ring. That's literally all.

[Marques Brownlee]

It's actually less information because the phone does do different vibrations for different apps and the Fitbit probably wouldn't if it

[Andrew Cunningham]

did one for a text and keep going for a ring. That's literally all I want because that's the only notifications that I feel like are enough for me to be like, oh, I feel like that's all it needs. Just give me phone calls and text messages. Here's my plea to Google. You want more of my information, don't you? Don't you want to track my phones and text messages?

[Adam Doud]

They have it.

[Marques Brownlee]

Add notifications of other Fitbits too that have like more or less screen.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Somebody said that the like Charge 6 has a screen but it's still kind of small. But I think it still is really bulky compared to this. Plus the like different straps are way lower profile that you can swap out where the Charge 6 you can't do that.

[Marques Brownlee]

Feels like adding features back to a minimalist phone. Yeah. Where it's like.

[David Pierce]

That's a good analogy.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yes, you do want to be able to do more stuff but the people are getting the less capable version on purpose.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Did we just get to the point where Marques is.

[Marques Brownlee]

I'm not vouching for minimalist. Minimalist phone. I don't want it. But I'm saying the reason that people go for the minimalist phone because when I see a minimalist phone I'm like just get a regular phone and use it less. That's what my brain says.

[David Pierce]

But yeah, that's.

[Marques Brownlee]

That's probably.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I think it seems wild to not want it when it has everything it needs for it already. It feels like you're not giving us something just for the sake of not giving it to us.

[Marques Brownlee]

Like a books Palma. Just put a cellular radio in it. Just do it.

[Adam Doud]

I think just because you can do something doesn't mean you should disagree with all you.

[Andrew Cunningham]

And you all sound pretty anti consumer right now. And I think the comments will agree with me except of how smug I said saying that therefore now they disagree with me.

[David Pierce]

Okay, so okay, here's a counter, counter, counterpoint. Every time you make a point, I make a counterpoint. That's a straightly manifesto lyric that you

[Andrew Cunningham]

tweeted 16 okay, that will come out in six years.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, it's still not, it's still not out. Anyway. Counter, counter, counterpoint is that a lot of people don't know how to look in their settings.

[Marques Brownlee]

Right.

[David Pierce]

So you're saying like a feature you can turn off if it was. If it was opt in.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I sorry, I was whispering that as Marques was saying something before. It can be default off. Okay, I don't care.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, all right.

[Andrew Cunningham]

If people don't want to default it is off at it as a feature later. People have it already. They're not used to it. Give me it later.

[David Pierce]

If there's a big flashing red button that says if you turn this on your battery life will be worse and your life will get worse then yeah, I guess so. I guess.

[Marques Brownlee]

And you bought the wrong Fitbit Yeah, return it.

[Adam Doud]

I'm just picturing having that feature and I would tell turn it off after a couple days. Like even as useful as it is, it doesn't give me the amount of usefulness that will let me leave it on.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I love the fact that with my Garmin, my phone never vibrated, it never rang, it never did anything for like three or four years. Now I have to have the vibration on to know when I'm getting a call or a text. And I don't know how you all deal with this, but it's woken me up every single night since because I forget to turn vibrations off when I go to sleep.

[Adam Doud]

Do not disturb routines.

[Andrew Cunningham]

But you a routine right?

[Adam Doud]

Every day at 9 o'.

[Marques Brownlee]

Clock.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I'll ask you this later on how to set it up because it, it has to be set up through assistant.

[Marques Brownlee]

No, no. A lot of phones you can just like have do not disturb and just like turn it turn on automatically at 9pm every day.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Okay, I need to do that. Someone teach me how to do that because I'm an idiot apparently.

[David Pierce]

Teach me. Teach me how to do that. Okay. And speaking of Google. Yeah.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I saw this this morning on 9 to 5 Google and then they also did a press release. Google is allowing websites to opt out of AI mode and overviews in Google search.

[David Pierce]

Ellis is saved.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Let me explain what it's doing first. Yeah, so they're starting to test a new toggle in their search console console which will allow website owners to decide if they want the site to appear in Google's AI search features like AI overviews, AI mode or AI overviews and discovery. If you decide to opt out, you will not receive traffic or impressions from generative AI features and they also promise it won't affect your search rankings for regular Google searches. So like allegedly. Allegedly fair. One thing though, it doesn't seem like it's stopping it from coming up in Gemini. This is like Google search features. The funny thing in their press release where they claimed we are actively listening to feedback from publishers and creators and engaging with regulators like the UK's Competition and Markets Authority to ensure website owners have the right tools as user preferences evolve, AKA UK got our ass again. We had to and we need to fix something because of it. So that's why this is rolling out to UK website owners first before potentially moving globally. They said they are also working on rolling out new insights for website owners in the search console that can help them understand the traffic they're getting, whether that's coming from AI features going forward. So that seems like a cool thing to add on top of this because obviously they don't want people to opt out. So give them some more information on maybe to claw them back in. Like, look at all these sweet insights you're getting.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, this gives Google a chance to put their money where their mouth is because their, their big argument. I don't know if you listen to Nilay's interview with Sundar, but Google's argument is that yeah, there's going to be less traffic to a lot of websites because of AI overview, but the traffic that websites do get will be way more specific and high quality traffic. And that's obviously great for commerce and great for certain websites. But I don't know if anybody believes that right off the bat.

[David Pierce]

We'll have to see that actually play out.

[Marques Brownlee]

So to offer the tools and insights to see, okay, I was getting let's say 100 page views a day or something like that. Now I'm getting 20, but all 20 of them buy something instead of 20 out of the hundred if you're an affiliate based website.

[Andrew Cunningham]

That's awesome.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, I was just gonna say that ignores the fact that a lot of websites exist off of like banner ads.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, banner use as all ad traffic disappears for those websites. Yeah, but yeah, it's an, it's at least an opportunity to show like how the traffic changes based on you opting in or opting out.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah, I mean giving them, giving them the option is good. Giving them more information to make that decision is good.

[Marques Brownlee]

Wikipedia opts out.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Okay, so that was something people were talking about on Reddit. So I have a list of like some things I'm interested to see how this changes. One, how many owners. Look at the statistics and what decision they wind up making. I think most website owners right now are like, I hate AI overviews because they're stealing traffic. When they see this, I want to see if a lot of people will actually stay or if they will opt out. If large websites opt out. One, how does that affect AI responses if Wikipedia like decides to, if they're big enough, will Google try and make some sort of agreement with them to make sure that they don't like if a Wikipedia ops out, I can't imagine Google wouldn't be like, we need to find some sort of compensation.

[Adam Doud]

I mean they did it with Reddit, they made a deal specifically with Reddit. So I could see them doing that.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I could definitely see that then. My other question is if a website ops out now, how much of they're existing? Yeah, like Information is already in the zeitgeist of, oh, they've already scraped the entire. Yes.

[Marques Brownlee]

So scraping stops. But whatever was already scraped is probably

[David Pierce]

already in my model. Trained up until.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Which is. Yeah, I feel like they need an answer for that. There's no way they're taking it out because it's all trained and they essentially can't. Right. Yeah. So whoop de do, I guess in the future. That's nice, but right now kind of sucks.

[Adam Doud]

But I just hope that in the search console there's a little toggle for me to turn on and off notifications.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I agree.

[Marques Brownlee]

It feels like the model. I was going to call it a black box. Like the training data is just in the black box. And then I just thought of the analogy that it's kind of like a black hole. Like all of the mass of the star is already in, so you can't take it out. I know it's part of all the rest of the stuff in there, but the mass is too dense. You just, you can't pull out one of the things. Once it's in there, it's in there.

[David Pierce]

Otherwise you get sucked in.

[Adam Doud]

We also get the Hawking radiation.

[Marques Brownlee]

Exactly.

[Adam Doud]

From the nerves.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. What about the Hawking radiation? Marques. A pulsar.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I think I could name all the planets.

[David Pierce]

All right, well, after the break, we are going to talk a little bit about Nvidia's new RTX Spark chipset that's trying to upset Apple, but. But maybe won't. We'll see. Before that, though, we got something that always comes out of the black hole.

[Marques Brownlee]

A tech trip

[David Pierce]

that's gotta be on the board. That's gotta be a question.

[Marques Brownlee]

A tech trivia question. I slept for 30% of what I

[David Pierce]

was supposed to a cardinal. Whoops.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, tech trivia.

[David Pierce]

Have you ever had a dream that you guys that you could do anything?

[Ellis Hamburger]

I heard the word Google and I heard the word opt out and I

[David Pierce]

immediately opted out of Google.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I immediately remembered the old days where you had to opt out of your Gmail getting every single Google notification and message that you ever dreamed of. So I wanted to write a Google trivia question. Doesn't really have that much to do with the topic today, but we all miss Google. And by we all, I mean, you know, someone out there.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Marquis Marquez. Is that someone.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Google, as we all know, loves to try new things. And they really, really love to try new things. Back in the day, I guess they still do this trivia question?

[David Pierce]

Not as much. They used to experiment a lot more.

[Ellis Hamburger]

They Do. And so today's trivia question is how many social media services did Google launch before Google?

[David Pierce]

Oh, my God.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Before Google.

[Marques Brownlee]

And name them.

[Ellis Hamburger]

You don't have to name them, but it will be Price is Right rules. So if you're too. If you think Google is too ambitious,

[David Pierce]

social media, find social media.

[Marques Brownlee]

And you're. I need you to say the question very specifically. Google launched. Didn't buy launched.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I'm going to confirm over the next section that they did not purchase any of these.

[Marques Brownlee]

Okay.

[Ellis Hamburger]

But to my knowledge, if they were purchased, they were purchased, pre launched and launched by Google. How many social media services did Google launch before Google? And I know, you know, I thought I rounded up every single one I could find. I'm going to go double check because it's Google. They could have launched six that somehow I never heard of. But these are all ones that I think a reasonable tech enthusiast might not remember off the top of their head, but would remember if spoken aloud. Adam, do you agree? Adam agrees.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Okay, I can't find it, but did you see the subreddit post of, like, I hate prices.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Right. Well, on our side.

[Adam Doud]

Why?

[Andrew Cunningham]

It was just like, I just don't

[David Pierce]

get that Delta is better, which is kind of true.

[Marques Brownlee]

Closest delta. I like closest Delta.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, closest a lot. Generally better.

[Marques Brownlee]

Especially when no one really has any idea what the ballpark of the answer is.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Actually, should we. Do I. I think I'm fine swapping around.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

What am I talking about here?

[Marques Brownlee]

Is Price is Right an internationally known.

[David Pierce]

I think so.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's ISO standard 38924 BC.

[David Pierce]

No, that's peanut butter.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Oh, you're so right.

[Marques Brownlee]

That's the Pantone color. No, I feel like. I feel like that's a maybe more local, fun rule that we've implemented, but I like swap. As long as everyone knows what it means.

[David Pierce]

Okay, Whatever you want.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, you guys are the game masters. I'm just, you know, just throw living

[Ellis Hamburger]

in your happy, jolly energy until we

[Andrew Cunningham]

all get it wrong, and then I. I will not be happy.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Pierce]

All right.

[Marques Brownlee]

Answers. Answers will be at the end, like usual. We'll be right back. Support for the show comes from Chef iq. Father's Day is coming up, and if you're still looking for a gift for your dad, here's the move. Get him something he'll actually use.

[Andrew Cunningham]

You know, as a dad, I can tell you that always lands better. And Chef IQ Sense is one of those gifts that feels smart, premium, and, you know, actually useful.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, it's a wireless smart thermometer that connects your phone and helps you cook meat exactly the way you want without the guesswork. So if your dad already knows his way around a grill, it helps him get that perfect steak done just right. And if he's not exactly a pro, it helps him make sure dinner is fully cooked and ready to serve.

[Andrew Cunningham]

You just insert the probe and the app tracks the cook in real time. It tells you when to flip it, it tells you when to pull it, it tells you when to let it rest. You don't have to hover, you don't have to second guess. No overcooked steak, no undercooked chicken. Just better results. All the confidence.

[Marques Brownlee]

It's just the type of gift he'll keep using way after Father's Day.

[David Pierce]

It's great.

[Marques Brownlee]

So get 40% off@chef IQ.com with code WAVE. That's code wavefeq.com it's the perfect gift for Father's Day. Support for the show comes from Shopify, so starting a business can be super overwhelming. Every day seems to introduce a new decision that needs an answer and that to do list just keeps growing every day and eventually starts to overrun your life. Finding the right tool that not only helps you out, but simplifies everything can be such a game changer for millions of businesses. That tool is Shopify. They're the commerce platform behind millions of businesses worldwide and nearly 10% of all E commerce in the US from established brands like Gymshark and Magic Spoon to companies that are just getting started, their design tools make it simple to create the exact online presence you're envisioning. With hundreds of ready to use templates available and with built in marketing tools, you can launch a full email and social campaign in just a few clicks so you can connect with customers wherever they are. Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify and start hearing. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at shopify.com waveform. Go to shopify.com waveform that's shopify.com waveform

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

I keep seeing celebrities posts me in the 90s versus now while the person staring at me in the mirror is definitely not the same person that could pull off boot cut jeans. Time creeps up on us so slowly you don't see it until suddenly you do. Same thing goes for your bills. A dollar here, an uptick there. It's a slow burn until one day you realize the price you're paying now is way higher than when you signed up. But AT T Mobile customers had the lowest wireless Bills versus Verizon and ATT over the past five years. And with T Mobile on their experience plans, you get a five year price guarantee so you know exactly what your plan price will be for the next five years. So at least that's one thing that won't change over time. I can't guarantee you'll still look good with frosted tips, but T Mobile can give you a clear guarantee on your wireless plan.

[Marques Brownlee]

Lower bills based on Harris X billing snapshots from Q3 21 to Q4 25 compared to average AT&T and Verizon bills. Comparison excludes discounts, credits and optional charges. Price guarantee on talk, text and data exclusions like taxes and fees apply. CT mobile.com all right, welcome back. We gotta talk about this upcoming Apple event. So by the time you hear this, it's Friday, WWDC 2026 is Monday and Dubdub. Every year it's our developer conference. We get all this software occasionally a little bit of hardware, like some teasing of some hardware. I think the last one we heard about was Mac Pro at Dubdub maybe, but usually it's just iOS, iPadOS, watchOS, all the OSes get updated and we do have some expectations for that. This year we got our invite. We will be out there. The clue that we have is all systems glow. As you know, Siri is the thing that glows in iOS because the rest of it is liquid glass. So we are expecting finally to get, I guess a re announcement of all the stuff we were expecting.

[David Pierce]

Two funny things about this one. Last year's tagline was it's glow time.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah. And again, they didn't do it. We don't talk about that.

[David Pierce]

Also, the person that announced the revamp, Siri two years ago now works at OpenAI.

[Marques Brownlee]

The person on stage at Dub Dub who announced it. We don't talk about that either.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, we don't talk about Siri. So yeah, we hope it comes back. I was like scouring the Internet for all of the rumors, right? Because we wanted to do a rumor roundup. I actually promised you guys a rumor roundup last week. I lied to you. I looked online everywhere. I was like, top WDC rumors.

[Marques Brownlee]

I got some.

[David Pierce]

You got some small stuff. Because everything I found was just like,

[Andrew Cunningham]

Siri, Yeah, this is dub dub 2024 part two redux.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, I mean the main thing that I think is interesting is so obviously the iPhone is the thing that Apple does and the way they differentiate their products. Very often if you look back at the history of Apple, it's just making their new thing, the one that works with the iPhone the best, right? Yeah. So they've been super behind in all this AI and having large language models and having an assistant, but they're finally going to have this new Siri and what I'm expecting is for them to try to find ways that this assistant is the one that works with the iPhone the best. So how do they do that? One is a pre installed Siri app that kind of looks like a messaging app where you can just talk to Siri. I think potentially it's in the messaging app where you just message Siri like you're texting it. Yeah. But then two, of course, is like if you have ChatGPT the app, or Gemini the app or any of these other apps cloud on your iPhone, they can only tell you so much about your actual phone. They know about what you've plugged into it and what you've given it access to, but they don't know your messages or your calendar. They can't act on your iPhone for you. So I just generally expect, I mean, they tease a lot of this stuff already, but I generally expect them to give Siri a bunch of abilities to dig into your iPhone and use that contact data, calendar data, whatever other stuff is on your iPhone and take actions with it.

[David Pierce]

This is where Apple is going to have a lot of explaining to do because the entire thing that they kind of sell is privacy. And they're going to have to reassure people over and over and over again that even though it is using the data that is on your phone with text and the everything and the stuff and it's AI, we're not gonna see it. It's not going anywhere. They're gonna have to talk about their private cloud compute thing again. They're gonna have to say the Gemini Nano model runs locally on the phone. There's no data coming to Apple because again, it's gonna need all that context. For example, Gemini Spark that we talked about briefly last week from IO. I have early access to it and I tried it a little bit. David Pierce wrote a really good article about it and it's kind of creepy how much information it knows about you. Like when in Pierce's article that he wrote about it, he said like, plan me this trip. And it knew his wife's name, it knew what time his kid takes a nap.

[Marques Brownlee]

Is this because it's Gemini and it's plugged into your accounts and has all of that?

[David Pierce]

Yes. Yeah. Yes.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

And so Apple is going to have to be Very clear about the information that they're pulling from your devices and all this stuff. Again, Apple doesn't have nearly as much information as Google has about you because it doesn't have, like, I mean, I guess they kind of have icloud drive. They can kind of pull from documents and stuff, but they don't have their own documents creator thing that people actually use. They're just gonna have a little bit less context. But yeah, it's gonna be a lot of explaining, like security, security, security, privacy, privacy, privacy. On device models. Yeah, we'll see how regular people take it.

[Andrew Cunningham]

They just have to show that little Apple logo. That's a lock. It goes.

[Marques Brownlee]

I. We should. That's right now on how many times they do the animation. They for sure are going to do that at least one time full screen. Oh, yeah, during ww. I can see that. Yeah, no, that's. It's true. And also, like, to your point, Google is essentially an ad and data collection company. So they have all these great services that also serve as ways to collect data. So, like, we use Google Docs.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Great.

[Marques Brownlee]

We use Google Calendar as a company.

[David Pierce]

Great.

[Marques Brownlee]

We use Gmail.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Okay.

[Marques Brownlee]

So all this stuff is really useful to us as services. But then Jim and I pulls from all of that to be helpful for us. Apple, I mean, yeah, they have icloud. They don't have a. They have. They have ical. So if you have. If your calendar is in ical, they can use that. Your contacts, your imessage.

[David Pierce]

Maybe your imessage even feels like a stretch for Apple to use that data, to be honest.

[Marques Brownlee]

If it's on your device, it's cool.

[David Pierce]

I think it's okay. But I think that the messaging is going to be a little complicated for some reason. Texts are the things that people always think about the most when they think about is this data leaking. So I don't know.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, it just makes it hard because they don't have as much data and services. I guess it makes it harder for them to make a useful assistant. So let's see what sort of stuff they plug into with the iPhone.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. Gemini has like a daily brief feature now that I. I actually think mine's been really good.

[Marques Brownlee]

I've been waiting for it to get good.

[David Pierce]

Really?

[Marques Brownlee]

Every day I read my daily brief and I just shake my head.

[David Pierce]

Mine is like, so weirdly good.

[Marques Brownlee]

What is yours? Do you use it too? Yeah, mine is tell me what's in your daily brief. Because mine is just like, here's some emails you got. And I'm like, Yeah, I read those already this morning. Oh, wow. No. What is Daily Brief?

[David Pierce]

Mine.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Mine.

[David Pierce]

Mine comes to me when I wake up.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah. Mine gets. Okay, yeah. So it shows up in the morning, but often I've dismissed a bunch of emails from the night before and it's telling me about those again and it's telling me to take actions on things that are emails that I'm already gonna do. Because I read my emails.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

So what does yours do?

[David Pierce]

Mine's like, oh, this thing that you bought on ebay finally shipped. Here's the tracking number.

[Marques Brownlee]

Because of the email.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

But like, I don't know. That might be buried in my. I just like having it all in one place and it's like.

[Marques Brownlee]

Like your inbox.

[David Pierce]

I don't know everything. No, no. Cause not everything in my life is in my email. Right. Cause it mixes in things that happen in my email and in my calendar and in. In my Google Drive, stuff like that. Or in my Google tasks.

[Marques Brownlee]

You know what's been weirdly better? What is I've been using dia, and this is not an ad for them, but the browser. And because I have Google Docs open and I've given it access to stuff, it knows what docs I've been working on and it's seen my calendar and it knows this other stuff. And the daily brief that pops up in the morning from DIA is often more variety. Like, it knows what documents I've been working on. It's like, here's some stuff, some sources to help you find finish this dope tech video you've been writing. This is on your phone, this is on dia, the browser on my desktop. So that has been more useful because it's not all just emails. It goes, oh, you have some unresolved comments from the Google Doc from Andrew and Harper on this thing you've been writing. That's pretty useful.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I'm the person leaving those comments. I like that a lot.

[Marques Brownlee]

But the Google one I get every morning is just like a summary of my email.

[David Pierce]

Let me tell you my daily brief. Okay? So I'm shipping a product to a friend and then they're going to bring it to me. It's just a kind of complicated thing. And for some reason it knows the friend that I'm shipping it to. And it tells. So it not only was like, here's your tracking information, but it says, share the tracking information with him so that he can bring it to you.

[Marques Brownlee]

That's nice.

[David Pierce]

Which is crazy because I didn't, you know, that's not in the email from ebay, it's kind of a complicated. It's. It's interesting. I don't know how it knows that. Inspect the package that got delivered last night to make sure that nothing got. Like, there was no transit damage. Which is convenient because it knows that something recently got damaged in transit. I think because I like, submitted a claim. It's kind of interesting. Last night I was trying to transfer from the iPhone air over to the iPhone Pro max and it was freezing constantly. So it's like, make sure you resolve the freezing issue, which is, you know, obviously something.

[Marques Brownlee]

How does it know that? Because you're Google searching.

[David Pierce]

Because I. I asked Gemini once yesterday. Like, I'm trying to transfer and it. It's freezing. Like, what's the best thing to do? Here's a package that didn't know was arriving today, where it's like, hey, this thing is arriving today. It should get there. Whatever.

[Marques Brownlee]

That must be from an email.

[David Pierce]

Upcoming birthdays, which is one is on Friday, which I didn't know about. Like, I wouldn't have checked my calendar to, like, tried to see that the birthday was interesting.

[Marques Brownlee]

So I'm just so dialed in my calendar and inbox that this feels redundant to me. But if I wasn't checking my calendar

[David Pierce]

in my inbox, I do not live in my email at all. And the only. I mean, I use my calendar like crazy, but the only reason I use it is to make sure I'm not double scheduling things when people ask to, like, hang out or do something, you know? Okay, so maybe we just have different. I think for people that live in their email, maybe it's not, as it's

[Marques Brownlee]

pretty redundant for me. Okay, what does yours do, Adam?

[Adam Doud]

Mine, I. I'm like a mix. Like, I live in my email, but I also live in my calendar. But I also live in my notes app. Like, I'm all over the place. So my email specifically, the things I pay attention for are appointments, which may or may not reflect on my Google calendar. But for example, the one that saved me yesterday actually was last week. I have a class every Tuesday with a Spanish tutor that I meet on Zoom and we go through it for an hour. We had a miscommunication about scheduling and when we were going to talk all this stuff. So that was like a long email thread that it's all in Spanish, which I'm not great at. So it all, like, got lost in translation, literally. So yesterday I woke up and the Google Assistant little thing.

[Marques Brownlee]

Daily.

[David Pierce]

Daily Brief.

[Adam Doud]

Yeah, Gemini Daily Brief. Thank you. Was like, oh, don't forget you have your Spanish class today and the, the email thread is all in Spanish. And I was like, oh snap, it is today. Like, yeah, let me, let me lock that in my calendar. One o', clock, I have my calendar. So like things like that. It was like things that I would otherwise miss or not really pay attention to subscriptions that I meant to cancel. But I keep forgetting. Like it'll keep reminding you. Like, don't forget last week you wanted to do this thing.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Adam Doud]

And I still see that it's still there.

[David Pierce]

I like rarely check my email, so honestly I should check it more. But honestly like it sending. Telling me that things are arriving todays that I've, that I've ordered that I just didn't know about is very helpful, especially since packages get stolen from my apartment like all the time.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah. So, yeah, that's okay. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense as someone who's not in the inbox all the time that this would be useful. I'm looking at my daily brief again. It's literally just, hey, you got an email. You want to do anything about that? Here's another email. And yeah, it's not really pulling from anywhere other than email.

[Adam Doud]

How are you guys finding your daily brief?

[David Pierce]

It's in the Gemini app.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah. It's near the top if you open the sidebar.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. You can also get a notification for it every morning when you wake up.

[Adam Doud]

That's what I get. And I didn't realize I could just go to the gym and I am see it.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Dial in your new podcast room layout.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Adam Doud]

Modify or confirm your chewy auto ship order. Still have to do that. So you completely forgot about that review GitHub app. Claude requests for system permissions. Should probably check that. Sounds important.

[David Pierce]

Sounds important to me. I'm just saying I think it's, I think it's quite good. And it's going to be interesting to see how Apple like what data Apple allows their local models to collect and like use to actually be helpful. Because Google, Google has never pretended to be about privacy whatsoever. They're more like actually just give us all our data and we will give you useful features. And Apple is like, we don't look at anything. So it's just going to be, it's

[Marques Brownlee]

going to be different.

[David Pierce]

But I'm interested, I'm quite interested in what they do next week in that, in that use case. Obviously they're going to update all of the oss. So literally no idea what they're gonna do for the Watch. You know, it's like, it seems like every year they come up with a new metric, a new health metric that I didn't know did. And they add a new sensor. Yeah. Cause they need to sell a new watch. So that's strange.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I feel like the last two years. Was it the last two years. This where they're like, this is the biggest Update to watch OS.

[David Pierce]

Oh, WatchOS 10. Yeah.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah. And it was like nothing.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Watch it just come out of nowhere and be like, sick.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. I really want them to. Oh, yes. Yeah. That's a great. Yeah. Like.

[Marques Brownlee]

Like one new watch face, one new sensor.

[David Pierce]

Snoopy or honestly, they could probably just Sherlock. Bevel. Bevel is the like, actually.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

So if you don't know, Bevel is. Bevel is like the Whoop. It's an app that you use that takes your Apple watch data and it turns it into whoops for $100 a year.

[Andrew Cunningham]

It's only a hundred dollars for the AI features. I figured someone posted on our subreddit the majority of the stats are just free. Oh, subscriptions. AI features.

[David Pierce]

That's cool. Okay, that's even better. And so Apple has a real opportunity to kind of make especially the Ultra. Like, make it a harder core.

[Marques Brownlee]

Maybe this ties into Siri. Maybe Siri is a fitness coach based

[David Pierce]

on your health data.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah. Sydney Siri looks at all of this fitness data in the health app and becomes a chattable coach, actionable, like Coach for beginners. To understand. Like, hey, you have trends. Like, you can always open the health app and look at all these numbers and graphs and I don't know what to do with those a lot of times, but maybe Siri is like a little.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Can Siri even set two timers? And you wanted to tell you how you should.

[Marques Brownlee]

We're getting a revamped series. It's going to be the new Gemini series. It's going to be good, allegedly.

[David Pierce]

Is it two years late now or is it three?

[Marques Brownlee]

I guess it's announced at a year

[Andrew Cunningham]

and a half late, right?

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, announced almost two years ago. Okay.

[David Pierce]

Year and a half to be for

[Andrew Cunningham]

the next iPhone launch. So, yeah, half a year later.

[David Pierce]

I hope they make us Tahoe better. Apparently there was a leaked name for the new OS version, and it's potentially called Big Bear, which is a lake

[Marques Brownlee]

in California, like macOS.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

Big Bear.

[David Pierce]

Big Bear.

[Marques Brownlee]

Big Bear.

[David Pierce]

Big Bear.

[Marques Brownlee]

Big Bear.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I'm realizing that Big Bear is.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, it's a great lake.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I'm realizing not everyone knows about Big Bear.

[Andrew Cunningham]

It's not A great.

[David Pierce]

I know. It's a California.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah. Wow.

[David Pierce]

There's a lot.

[Marques Brownlee]

Running out of popular things.

[David Pierce]

I mean, a lot of people. People didn't know about Tahoe either.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Correct. Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I just. I feel like when you live in California, everyone's always talking about Big Bear.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. People go to Big Bear to, like, vacation.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

Like, it's Big Bear. It's awesome. It's awesome.

[Adam Doud]

Wait a second. Are you guys from California?

[Marques Brownlee]

This is how fast they ran out of stuff.

[David Pierce]

Right.

[Marques Brownlee]

They had all the snow leopard, cheetah, puma, all those. Right. Then they got to California stuff for OS 10.9. Okay. Mavericks, Yosemite, El Capitan. Yeah. Okay, great.

[David Pierce]

California.

[Marques Brownlee]

Sierra, High Sierra. California.

[David Pierce]

California.

[Marques Brownlee]

Mojave, California. Catalina, California. Big Sur. Now we're just obscure. Monterey.

[David Pierce]

Monterey is not obscure.

[Marques Brownlee]

Ventura.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Ventura is not obscure.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

Sonoma.

[Adam Doud]

Honestly didn't know Ventura was a place

[David Pierce]

because you guys are not from California.

[Marques Brownlee]

Exactly.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It is a little obscure.

[Marques Brownlee]

Most people aren't from California.

[David Pierce]

Actually, Apple is.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Statistically, it's the United States, actually. Yeah, most people are from California.

[Marques Brownlee]

No, most people are. Are aware of California, but not intimately aware of all the things. Like, I think we've run out of the popular. I mean, let's name it after a city, but these are generally, like, you know, pretty places in California.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Marquez. According.

[David Pierce]

Better.

[Ellis Hamburger]

According to AI overview, 12% of all Americans are born in California.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah. And 80% aren't.

[Marques Brownlee]

Very few.

[Ellis Hamburger]

More than anywhere else.

[Marques Brownlee]

No, it's not.

[David Pierce]

I think it is.

[Marques Brownlee]

I think it's top three.

[David Pierce]

It's probably top one.

[Marques Brownlee]

It's probably two.

[David Pierce]

I think it's number one.

[Marques Brownlee]

How many people live in New York State?

[Ellis Hamburger]

A lot less than California.

[David Pierce]

Less than California.

[Marques Brownlee]

How about Texas?

[Ellis Hamburger]

Less. 8 million less than California.

[Marques Brownlee]

All right.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. California.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Probably California.

[David Pierce]

Anyway, I'm just saying, like, these are all beautiful places.

[Marques Brownlee]

I agree. And the videos that they do to, you know, Craig's gonna get on stage and say, our crack marketing team, he's gonna say that word for word, and he's gonna announce this new thing, and there's gonna be a very pretty video of it. And people from California are gonna recognize it from the video before they say the name. They'd be like, oh, my God, it's Big Bear. And people are gonna be like, what's Big Bear?

[David Pierce]

You know what?

[Andrew Cunningham]

I hope they're gonna be Skitter.

[David Pierce]

The California state flag is a bear. So I hope they, like, zoom out of the flag and it's a bear, and then they do a flyover of Big Bear Lake.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Wait, did they tease this like four years ago. And that bear broke into that guy's house in the watch.

[Marques Brownlee]

That's a big bear.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, I could be one too.

[Andrew Cunningham]

RTX Spark.

[David Pierce]

RTX Spark.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Speaking of big, wait a second, that's not in California.

[David Pierce]

Don't you know RTX Spark in California? Okay, so Apple, a number of years ago, 2020, released the M1 series processors. Big deal. Big change. ARM based, change the world. Okay?

[Marques Brownlee]

Been chasing it that high ever since.

[David Pierce]

Everyone's been chasing that high. Microsoft has been chasing that high. Qualcomm's been chasing that high. They can never seem to to do it because Windows just sucks. Unfortunately, it is truly not good because they need backwards compatibility for like 100 years. So Nvidia Multi trillion dollar company. What do they do?

[Andrew Cunningham]

Have you heard of them?

[David Pierce]

You might not have heard of them.

[Marques Brownlee]

They're the big bear in the room.

[David Pierce]

They're the biggest bear in the room. What they did was they made a competitor to the M1. It's called the RTX Spark superchip. It's effectively a laptop slash, you know, desktop PC version of the DGX Spark from last year, which was a personal dev kit, AI box that combines cpu, GPU all in one chip. Now they're going to put this thing in laptops, which is pretty crazy. We don't know really any performance, we don't really know any pricing.

[Marques Brownlee]

We just have numbers.

[David Pierce]

We have a lot of numbers, David.

[Andrew Cunningham]

It has all day battery life up

[Marques Brownlee]

to up to all day.

[David Pierce]

We'll see. I mean it is a 3 nanometer process, so maybe it'll be okay with efficiency. But yeah, it's got 20 CPU cores, 6,144 GPU cores. They say it can have up to RTX 5070 equivalent graphics. We don't know if that's the 5070 on the desktop or the 5070 on the laptop, which are very.

[Marques Brownlee]

When they don't specify, you can probably assume it's the lesser.

[David Pierce]

The lesser probably assume up to 128 gigabytes of unified memory. But it's starts at 16 gigs of unified memory all day. Battery life built in partner built in partnership with MediaTek. One petaflop of AI compute 600 gigabytes per second bandwidth. Or maybe that's gigabits. I didn't, I'm not sure if I read it correctly.

[Marques Brownlee]

Gigabits.

[David Pierce]

Jensen talked a lot about this being a platform for agents. He said agents a lot.

[Marques Brownlee]

Okay?

[David Pierce]

He used that word many times. He said there are only a billion people but there are so many more agents. I'm serious about this.

[Marques Brownlee]

Very carefully.

[David Pierce]

I also don't know why he said only a billion people because I think there's about 8 billion people. Yeah, but yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

Okay, my take on this, let's go. Based on what I've seen. Yeah. You know, we got this announcement, we got them focusing very heavily on AI and agents and how, you know, with up to 128 gigs of unified memory, you can run all these local large language models and do all this stuff and execute all these tasks and have even these optimizations. They talked about Adobe with like special versions. Obviously you have CUDA cores because it's Nvidia, but special versions of this new Adobe software where you can have it make stuff for you in the creative suite. Crazy agents happening on your computer. My take basically, which is probably based on how little time I spend in this PC world, is the window for how good or bad this could be. Oh, good one enormous. No pun intended. But the window for how high the ceiling could be or how low the floor could be is huge. Yeah, I think how bad it could be is okay. We don't know how bad like the base chip is. Okay. Starting at 16 gigs Unified Memory, you got a bunch of cores and obviously a whole bunch of bandwidth, 3 nanometer process and then it's just, you know, base just replacing the intel chip that you would have had level and that's okay. And maybe it's a little too expensive. The ceiling is like it is as good as the Apple silicon chips and it's better because of all the optimizations and the CUDA cores and it has all this local, you know, processing available, all this AI for all the agents you're going to run. So it's better for that sort of stuff. So the, the window and obviously it runs Windows. So like however into that you are the window for how good or bad this could be is huge to me. So I am, I'm going to wait to actually get my hands on it. They announced a whole bunch of laptop OEMs are going to be making these RTX Spark laptops and they're all very thin and very powerful, very premium looking. They all scream high price.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

But they haven't announced any specs or prices or benchmarks yet. So I'm just going to wait until we get some in hand and actually use them, benchmark them and see how good they actually are.

[David Pierce]

The DGX Spark last year was announced at $3,000. When it came out it was $4,000. And then within a few months it became $4,600. And then for some reason the Dell version was $6,300. So yeah, they're probably going to be pretty expensive. Again, we don't really know anything about battery life. The GTX spark pulled 140 watts from the wall. Hopefully it doesn't pull that much. It's going to be scaled down a lot.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Linus is saying something about 150 watts and then the battery life not that

[David Pierce]

less like two hours.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah, he was like, the math isn't mathing here, but like all of it. Because this is all at Computex, right?

[David Pierce]

Yeah. And like, well, there was Computex and then there was Nvidia, had their own thing. And then there was also Microsoft build, which happened like right after. Okay.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah, yeah. I mean they announced in it the Microsoft Surface Ultra, which is a 15 inch mini LED touchscreen, you know, the largest haptic trackpad in a Surface ever. One thing that was exactly like a

[David Pierce]

MacBook Pro, by the way.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I saw that it also just looks exactly like a Microsoft Surface laptop. It's looked like, except maybe a tad boxier, like thicker and less of a wedge shape. But I just think it's looked like a Surface for like that for a while. The Verge said that like looked exactly like a MacBook. And I was like, I thought it looks just like a.

[David Pierce]

More like a MacBook. But maybe I'm wrong.

[Marques Brownlee]

Surface Ultra is also a funny name. I mean, yeah, huge trackpad, black keyboard, thin bezels.

[Andrew Cunningham]

One thing I thought was interesting that Tom Warren said is so it's got USB C hdmi, full size SD headphone jack, but there's an USB C port on the right that he says looks a little bit larger. And when he asked the Microsoft employee, they just smiled and said they'd have more to share later.

[David Pierce]

Which to me sounds like service Connect port that you like a fast charger, I guess. Like, remember how the old Surface devices had that like detachable one?

[Andrew Cunningham]

It was essentially always like this weird, like long, I don't know, flat piece that would go into it and be like a, a proprietary fast charger. But you could also charge with USBC in a different port. Yeah, yeah, that was my guess too.

[David Pierce]

It might be a breakaway USBC like port.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Interesting.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. So it could, it could have the magnetic capabilities also be usbc, which would be cool.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah, I think it's just charging. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think it's anything that cool. Despite him smiling and laughing and Being like, you'll find out later this year. Yeah, yeah. This is all. You know, this is Windows and ARM again. We've seen it. Surface has done it. With Nvidia though, being at the forefront and worth a pissload of money.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Andrew Cunningham]

There is a higher chance for sure.

[David Pierce]

There's a higher chance this works because Nvidia has a lot more to lose than like Microsoft and Qualcomm did. Yeah. The thing that people are really upset at though is that there is not Linux support right now. And many, many developers use Linux and so everyone being forced to use Windows is not making people happy.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, that could be a future thing. I mean I expect them to listen to their audience at some point and maybe expand support.

[Andrew Cunningham]

But yeah, the response to Linus seemed very like we are not thinking about that right now. We have a lot of other things to worry about before we're going to worry about Linux.

[David Pierce]

Totally fair.

[Marques Brownlee]

They definitely had to launch this first and make sure it goes smoothly before doing anything else.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. So there's like a million questions that we're gonna not have answered until we actually get units of these things in

[Andrew Cunningham]

house, which is later this year. Like we're a while away from figuring any of this stuff out for sure.

[David Pierce]

Maybe before Siri. We'll see.

[Marques Brownlee]

Place your bets.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Before GTA 6.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, before GTA 6 or my street Light Manifesto album.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I'm weirdly like excited about this because there's a lot of like advanced high production creative workflows that more and more people are adopting. We were talking about this in the car this morning, David. Adopting these very slim local models to take care of one task in a really complicated production workflow with all the extra ports and the big trackpad on this Microsoft Surface. I could see this being a weirdly useful laptop with the asterisk being if this Nvidia graphics engine has access to all the like Nvidia specific graphics processes.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. Jetson made a big deal about the fact that this chipset supports literally everything Nvidia has ever made.

[Ellis Hamburger]

So the idea like these are like very hyper specific applications. But I could see a lot of like post production workflows or like computers that run concert visuals or like things like that being able to do like really unique powerful things on this laptop. If it's like not which unfortunately like it seems like they all end up being.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I don't think this is going to be.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I don't think so either.

[Andrew Cunningham]

It's supposed to run through Windows though. And as a Windows user we had to do this thing With a Dell monitor for a video we're making where it has a KVM and I'm switching between it. Setting up the Dell drivers for the KVM of this Dell monitor took me longer on the Windows PC than it did on the Mac for just like, it kept failing and then just extracting it and actually downloading it literally took like 10 times as long. And I was messaging Mark as like, I'm losing my mind here. It was a Dell XPS laptop I was using. That was like hurting. Trying to install Dell drivers. Yeah, it was infuriating.

[David Pierce]

Damn.

[Marques Brownlee]

I want to be optimistic. I want to. I want to see when they come out, hopefully we get these, these benchmarks going.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Thank you for the big trackpad.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

All laptops need a giant trackpad.

[David Pierce]

I agree, I agree. The question sort of becomes like, Apple has become the de facto kind of AI agent computers because they're like the best bang for buck right now. But if another company comes in and is optimized for that stuff, are people going to start moving over to, you know, agent specific hardware?

[Marques Brownlee]

If it's built for whatever you plan on doing.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, whatever that means.

[Ellis Hamburger]

And can they safeguard? Like, I think another reason the Apple platform is so popular for vibe coding and agents and stuff like that is because it's. You can really monkey around a lot in Terminal and with bash commands and stuff and feel confident you're not going to delete some system file that renders your computer completely broken in a way that I feel a lot less confident on a Windows system.

[David Pierce]

Satya did specifically say they're bringing a lot of that stuff to Windows now, though. Like, they're bringing Homebrew to Windows. He announced that.

[Adam Doud]

What?

[Ellis Hamburger]

How?

[David Pierce]

He announced that a build.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's a how.

[Adam Doud]

How?

[David Pierce]

Ask him yourself.

[Ellis Hamburger]

That doesn't make sense. I thought Homebrew was a Mac thing. I thought it was a Mac repository.

[David Pierce]

He said, we're bringing a lot of your favorite Mac stuff to Windows so that you. So that you can.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Oh, how the tables have turned, my friends. For my whole life. It was like, oh, this is really sweet, but you can't do it on Mac, so I gotta own a. Oh, I love this program, but it's. It's Windows. Oh, yeah, yeah. Now look at the Windows crowd, baby. Look at them crawl over to our side, the turntables.

[David Pierce]

Well, we won't know about that stuff until later this year, so a whole lot of hoopla, hoopla, hoopla. But while we're waiting for later this year to roll around, there's a Thing that happens every single gosh darn week, babe.

[Marques Brownlee]

Right on time.

[David Pierce]

And it's hoopla.

[Adam Doud]

Oh, trivia spelled hoopla. This was another great Ellis question that I'm just gonna steal from him. So while Google didn't stick around, one feature built into Google eventually became a standalone product in 2013. What product is that?

[Ellis Hamburger]

Two Google questions, one episode.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I actually say that again. I think I actually know that Google.

[Marques Brownlee]

Say it again. I'm gonna get this one right.

[Adam Doud]

While Google did not stick around.

[Marques Brownlee]

Correct.

[Adam Doud]

One feature built into Google eventually became a standalone product in 2013. What product was that?

[Andrew Cunningham]

I think I actually know that.

[Marques Brownlee]

Can I ask a. No. Just a little extra. Extra information.

[Adam Doud]

Okay.

[Marques Brownlee]

Does that product still exist?

[Adam Doud]

It kind of changed its name.

[Andrew Cunningham]

With every second, we're getting closer to spoiling the answer.

[Adam Doud]

This is a hard. A hard one because I do think technically it's the same thing. But they do change its name and

[David Pierce]

make it a. I think a French thing now.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah, I think you're giving it up.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Shut up. Everybody shut up.

[Andrew Cunningham]

This is why she. Listen to my. No.

[Marques Brownlee]

All right, never mind. Don't have to answer. You don't have to answer. We'll think about it.

[David Pierce]

I'm going to answer.

[Marques Brownlee]

What do you think about it? Yeah, you know, I don't. You don't have to answer. My question. My question. My clarifying.

[David Pierce]

Oh, I see. I'll just.

[Marques Brownlee]

I'll just guess.

[Adam Doud]

No, it's dead.

[Marques Brownlee]

Oh, great. Oh, that doesn't narrow it down at all.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Wait, it's back.

[Marques Brownlee]

And is that again. All right, we'll answer at the end. We'll be right back. Okay.

[David Pierce]

When I scraped my car in that parking garage, I was worried that it could be a long process to take care of it. Like a landscaper's first day trimming a hedge maze.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I have definitely already been here.

[Adam Doud]

Now, was it left, right or right? Left. Well, maybe I'll cut a path out

[Marques Brownlee]

and find my way back later.

[David Pierce]

But it wasn't like that.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I filed a claim in under two minutes on the Geico app, and they

[David Pierce]

handled it from there. It was taken care of almost as quickly as it happened.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It feels good to get help quick.

[David Pierce]

It feels good to Geico study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds. Get the unreal college deal. Everything you need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft

[Adam Doud]

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[David Pierce]

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[David Pierce]

Welcome back. We gotta talk about Microslop. I mean Microsoft. I stole that from Steve from Gamers Nexus.

[Marques Brownlee]

Oh, I have. The comment section's been.

[David Pierce]

Oh, did they say that?

[Marques Brownlee]

I made a video about just the problem that Microsoft has with laptops. And most of the comments were just making fun of Microsoft by calling it Microsoft. Damn, it was solid.

[David Pierce]

Well, well, we got two Microsoft stories for you. The first is that Microsoft is making a Project Solara Agent os. So if you didn't hear the last part of the podcast, and if you didn't, I don't know, why are you. At this part of the podcast we talked about Microsoft Build very briefly actually. Yeah, this might be in a clip, so I don't know, that'd be crazy. But they had Microsoft Build, which is their annual developer conference, similar to ww, similar to IO, and they announced some stuff there. One of the things they announced was a new OS called Project Solara and it's effectively supposed to be an OS built specifically for agents. It's funny though, because it's Android. Everything is Android at the end of the day.

[Adam Doud]

When I heard this, I thought of Rabbit os.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, that's kind of what it is.

[Adam Doud]

Same thing.

[David Pierce]

They basically my take on this is that they are trying to build the future platform, kind of like Meta was trying to do with the Metaverse, because they were mad that Google kind of took the web. And so now they're trying to be the ones that build an OS that can work on various different types of hardware. So they have these images of like, oh, smart glasses or a smart screen or a smart this. And they showed off two different concept devices. One was like an Echo like device, like an Amazon Echo like device that sits on your desk, has Windows, hello. So you walk up to it, it logs in and whatever and then you can just talk to it and you're talking to agents and agents are doing stuff for you, whatever. They also showed a concept of a smart badge. Now you might not know what a badge is if you have not worked at one of these megacorp, one of these megacorpes gives you a little badge that you wear on your neck that has your name and your id.

[Adam Doud]

Oh, like a physical badge?

[Andrew Cunningham]

Like an ID badge.

[David Pierce]

Like an ID badge.

[Adam Doud]

I don't know why I was thinking like a meta verified check mark badge or something.

[David Pierce]

No, not a digital badge.

[Adam Doud]

You mean like an actual badge?

[David Pierce]

Physical badge that helps you scan into different rooms, etc. This one has like your name, your ID on it, whatever, but it also has agents on it and also the camera. So they showed off at build where the guy that was presenting it basically turned it sideways and he recorded. Recorded a video. And then he was like, computer, cut up a video of this and like share it to my social media with some cool music. Bad. No, don't do.

[Andrew Cunningham]

It's a phone.

[David Pierce]

It's not your phone.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Can do. Yeah, just put it on your phone. Yeah, and make the badge. But get you in the door.

[David Pierce]

But the phone case. But the phone can't do it yet because Siri's not here yet. And Gemini. I don't think Gemini can like cut up a video.

[Adam Doud]

I don't think so either.

[David Pierce]

But I don't know.

[Adam Doud]

This is making me think that what if, going back to dub, dub predictions and rumors and stuff, if it becomes a Siri os? Because Apple seems to be the only one that doesn't.

[David Pierce]

Apple is not going to make a new os.

[Marques Brownlee]

That's all confusing.

[Adam Doud]

No, they're not going to because Android has Gemini that talks across all their platforms. Microsoft just announced this thing where all their agents. It's like different form factors. Doesn't matter. The agent will talk to it. Yeah, Apple doesn't have that yet.

[David Pierce]

It's iOS.

[Marques Brownlee]

I think Siri might act like that, but I don't think they would call it an os.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, they share a lot of confusion.

[Marques Brownlee]

Avoid confusion.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah, they'd call it an ontology. That was a Palantir joke.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Sorry, sorry.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Like six people listening to this laughed really hard.

[David Pierce]

Okay. Anyway, I already said it, but yeah, they want to be like the platform of the future. And I don't know, Microsoft has announced a lot of demo hardware in the past that they just never release. So that's a possibility. But yeah, just wanted to bring that up.

[Adam Doud]

Well, this doesn't seem like hardware to me.

[David Pierce]

Well, it's, it's. Yeah, it's. They're. They. They are making concept devices to show what you could do with this agent OS that they're building on top of Android.

[Adam Doud]

But the thing that they're showing off is the Agent os. Yeah, it's not like the hardware itself.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, we'll. We'll see if they even ship the agent os. Yeah, that's what I was my question. Because it's Microsoft. Okay, one more Microsoft story. Microsoft is in the process of shutting down all employees using cloud code for work by June 30th. Very funny. People have been thinking about this for a long time. At what point do tokens become more expensive than humans? Turns out we're reaching that point really fast now.

[Andrew Cunningham]

They sped run that.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's not like they're going to force them to use Codex or. What's the Microsoft one called? Copilot?

[Andrew Cunningham]

GitHub copilot, CLI.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah, it's like they're just like, no, no bots.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Well, so this, what happened was in December they gave everybody Claude subscriptions, like pretty much whoever wanted it there. And it seems like everyone was only using Claude and not Copilot. Copilot, yeah. So one, the reason a lot of people think this is because of how much is expensive. Because of how expensive it is, because it's ending on June 30, which is the end of Microsoft's fiscal year. Big red flag of like this is probably costing us a metric ton. But also it is a straight competitor. Not all employees are losing Claude completely because Copilot uses Claude inside of it. Yeah. So they'll still be able to like be connected to it somewhat, but most likely because it is a, a competitor and because it's costing so much money. Yeah, it's why they're stopping them from using it. But like David said, we're getting to this point of what costs more agents or people. And like Uber already just ditched like all of their, their AI coding.

[David Pierce]

I mean, Microsoft also has Copilot and they have GitHub copilot and they announced at build a new version of Terminal, which is they call a smart terminal, which has GitHub Copilot built into the terminal. And so, I mean, Microsoft would be a little hypocritical if they were not using their own, you know, agents. They also announced their own language models at Build. So I think, you know, it's a combination of this is probably getting insanely expensive. And also we spent billions of dollars to make this ourselves. Why are we not using it ourselves?

[Andrew Cunningham]

So this is getting extremely expensive in two different ways.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. So the question becomes how far behind anthropic are they in terms of the quality of their language models? That's Going to be a big question. And if it slows them down, do they need to be slowed down? I don't know. It'd be really thing that Microsoft's done significantly in the last few years. So who knows?

[Marques Brownlee]

I haven't used Bing in a min. Remember when Bing got crazy for one day?

[Andrew Cunningham]

Someone in our subreddit posted a really funny. They were like, it was the Bing copilot overview asking about me and it said I immigrated here in like 1891 and that I also host a podcast called Wave 4.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Holy moly.

[Marques Brownlee]

I said call him Unk but like really, really old.

[David Pierce]

That's hella Unk. Holy.

[Marques Brownlee]

That's crazy.

[David Pierce]

Speaking of the stuff anthropic also just confidentially filed to ipo, but then they tweeted about it, so it wasn't too confidential, I suppose. And it's one of the biggest IPOs. The estimations are just under a trillion dollars. Another IPO that might happen soon is the SpaceX one that is stealing from everyone's 401ks. That's a very complex topic. I watched like five videos about that yesterday.

[Andrew Cunningham]

No, it's not. That's all there is to it.

[David Pierce]

Well, yeah, it's about. So okay, I'll tell you real quick.

[Marques Brownlee]

Is there a tldw?

[David Pierce]

Yes. Okay. Well, yes. Okay, so basically when you invest in an index fund, an index fund is run by a company, right? So like Dow is like a company that collects these index funds and they basically, you know, you're forced to invest in the companies that they put on the index fund that they are.

[Marques Brownlee]

You're not picking companies, you're picking a fund. They invest a bunch of companies for you.

[David Pierce]

And so what has happened is that Twitter that got turned into X got merged into xai, right? Because they were out of money. Then XAI got merged into SpaceX because Xai was out of money and they were burning a billion dollars a day.

[Marques Brownlee]

They seem not related, but okay.

[Adam Doud]

It's a Russian nesting doll situation.

[David Pierce]

Nesting doll.

[Andrew Cunningham]

So there is something related. Elon Musk.

[Ellis Hamburger]

You know, SpaceX is like a reasonably profitable company and XAI just burns cash at an insane rate. And so SpaceX. And so Elon was like, if I burn buy Xai with SpaceX, I. I don't lose any money because I'm paying myself for this. And all of Xai's losses gets absorbed into SpaceX shareholders. So now the losses are their problem.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. And so now SpaceX is filing to go public for like a lot of money. The problem. Okay, the crazy thing here is that usually when a company goes public, if it's like a very large company, there's sort of this cooldown period that usually is about a year before seasoning. It's called seasoning. Yeah.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Where.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, where a stock, basically the market has to see like, is the stock gonna like go crazy and then dip or then blah, blah, blah, blah. These index funds will not adopt the stock for a year. And that's just been a formality, basically. It's kind of a rule that they use. But Elon basically convinced one of these index fund like the Dow or whatever, the NASDAQ, the NASDAQ 100, to waive that formality so that the SpaceX stock will immediately get, within, I think 15 days or so get injected into all of these index funds. So now if you have a 401k that tracks the NASDAQ 100, you automatically have to invest in SpaceX.

[Ellis Hamburger]

The whole idea is that Elon and everyone at SpaceX knows that SpaceX is the most overvalued public company in the world. Like they, they lose not quite a billion dollars a month, but in the hundreds of millions of dollars a month.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

And they're valued as like one of the most valuable companies in the world. Right.

[Marques Brownlee]

Despite just like SpaceX or Xai.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's the same company. Yeah, they're, they're SpaceX AI SpaceX. So Elon used SpaceX to buy Xai, which bought Twitter. Yeah, so. So SpaceX, Xai and Twitter are all the same balance sheet now.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

And together they record about $800 million of losses. I'm going to fact check that after the episode, but I believe it's about $800 million of losses a year.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

So the whole plan is if you can get all of these index funds to automatically buy SpaceX about two weeks after it iPodOS, it doesn't have enough time to crash, and that auto pumps the stock to infinity. So when the stock does crash, the people who lose are the people whose retirement accounts auto invested and the people

[David Pierce]

who already have the stock in Space XAI are the people who invest Twitter and the people who invested in xai, which is like a lot of the billionaires who funded the Twitter deal in the beginning because Elon lost half of the value of Twitter after he bought it because it crashed to half the price.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's, you know how like in the meme coin strat is, you tweet about a meme coin, so a bunch of people buy it and then you sell off as soon as they buy it.

[David Pierce]

Because you secretly own 80% of the.

[Ellis Hamburger]

That is. That's the plan here is. Except instead of convincing people to buy it with a tweet, they're being forced to buy. They're being. They're literally being forced to buy it.

[David Pierce]

Everyone who has a 401k, it's like

[Ellis Hamburger]

one of the most insane financial plays ever.

[Andrew Cunningham]

It's like stock market. So it's all fake.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. I think a lot of people don't realize that these index funds are companies and they're not just like things that are sort of set up and managed by the government and are like a, you know, apolitical, a moral whatever. They're like companies that. Their whole thing is that they track certain stocks.

[Andrew Cunningham]

So.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, it's crazy. I would. I would recommend watching some videos on it. It's wild. Yeah. And then Anthropics potentially going to go public. We'll see. If OpenAI goes public. I don't know, man. It's going to be crazy. If the air bubble does burst, it'll probably happen in the next six months.

[Andrew Cunningham]

We're speedruming this whole tech. I feel like two years ago we were like, cool, look, Will Smith eating spaghetti. Or it made a dinosaur chicken nugget surfing. And now we're like, it's too expensive to run anymore.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Adam Doud]

So who do you think is going to go public first? Anthropic or

[David Pierce]

anthropic before open AI?

[Andrew Cunningham]

For sure.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I need to correct myself. I said SpaceX was losing about $800 billion a month. I was not even close. In the first three months of this year, they lost 4.3 billion with a B. Dollars.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Okay, you misspoke for a second though. You said 800 billion.

[David Pierce]

You mean. Do you mean million?

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah, sorry. 800 million was an incorrect number. Four. In the first three months of 2026, they lost 4%.3 billion dollars. Despite being, again, in theory, the largest, most valuable IPO in history, somehow.

[Andrew Cunningham]

So I still don't get it. No one.

[Marques Brownlee]

Because they're betting on the future.

[David Pierce]

Anthropic is worth more than Open AI now. Did you know that?

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's like. It's all spec. It doesn't matter.

[David Pierce]

All of it is.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Well, in theory. Not all of it is. Like, there are companies you can buy whose balance sheets directly reflect their valuation. You know, they're just.

[Andrew Cunningham]

They just don't know how to grind.

[David Pierce]

That's true.

[Ellis Hamburger]

No, what they don't know how to do is pay another company to buy $800 million worth of their own product.

[Marques Brownlee]

I always Found it weird when like, like we'll see something on stage happen and then we'll see like that night a story about how the stock price went. Like with the Ferrari Lucha. Yeah. Like the car gets announced and then they lose 5% of their value overnight. Yeah, that's just speculation. That's just people going, ah, I see that their future plans for selling this will not work out. So I don't think they're worth as much anymore. So I will sell or I think it's worth less.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Well, in theory, that's the whole idea of index funds, right. It's like you can escape the volatility

[Marques Brownlee]

in a single certain market, but the

[Ellis Hamburger]

contract sort of falls apart when the company runs your index fund is like, no, I'm going to make so much money off of the losses.

[Adam Doud]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

Well, also I think Hank Green did a good video about this. Like the point of an index fund is to escape the volatility of different markets. But when like 80% of the market is AI companies, it's still dangerous to have your money in an index fund now. So it's just. This is not. This is not financial advice.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Not financial advice.

[David Pierce]

Not financial advice.

[Ellis Hamburger]

We should probably cut dangerous to put. That's.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, well that's what he said. I don't know, I'm just quoting him.

[Marques Brownlee]

But did he say not financial advice several times rapidly into the camera without blinking.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Actually fun fact. Hank Green is a certified public public accountant.

[David Pierce]

Really?

[Marques Brownlee]

But you still don't made that up.

[David Pierce]

This is not truth advice.

[Adam Doud]

Okay, it's fine because the president meme coin anyway.

[David Pierce]

So don't listen to us matters. Don't listen to us. Go, go, go. Watch people who are very, very well versed in this. I only learned about this last blame them. So yeah, blame them. Yes. Okay, well with that we're gonna wrap it up with trivia and then next week we'll have wtc.

[Ellis Hamburger]

For some reason you saying wrap it up really makes me want some sort of wrap for lunch.

[David Pierce]

Taco Bell.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I don't know guys. Before Google was released, how many. Before Google, how many social network, how many social networking sites did Google launch? Would you like me to include social media platforms that Google purchased pre launch or just ones that Google was the launcher of?

[David Pierce]

What were you gonna do? What were you gonna do at the beginning?

[Marques Brownlee]

I was gonna do Google launched.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Google launched.

[Adam Doud]

Okay.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. And is it closest out going over?

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yes, it is. Price is right rules.

[Marques Brownlee]

So then just the number.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Just the number. I don't need names and I will fully accept that if you write to me about the one I missed, I will, I will, I will, I will go back and award points.

[Marques Brownlee]

I feel like I'm. If price is right, I just go with the lower version.

[Ellis Hamburger]

And I would also like to make a clarification because there are lots of things that Google did that are sort of like social media platforms that are not, in my opinion, social media platforms.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Oh, this is based on your.

[Marques Brownlee]

We may debate on this.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Oh, I am not including Dodgeball because while that does resemble Foursquare, it was an SMS service and I don't believe an SMS based service could be.

[David Pierce]

I think that's pretty.

[Ellis Hamburger]

So social network. I am not including Picasa Web because the social features were an afterthought

[David Pierce]

photo service.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I am not including Google Open Social because that is a protocol and an API. It is not an accessible platform, but it's a Fediverse. I am not including Google Wave.

[Marques Brownlee]

What?

[David Pierce]

What's that?

[Ellis Hamburger]

It was sort of like a bulletin board. Like, like.

[Marques Brownlee]

That feels like social media though, to me.

[Ellis Hamburger]

And I am not including Google Buzz

[Marques Brownlee]

because come on, that's social media.

[Andrew Cunningham]

That is definitively social media.

[Ellis Hamburger]

You think Google Buzz is social media apps? Okay, I will include Google Buzz then.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

All right. How many did you put?

[David Pierce]

Well, I should have put more. Oh, oh.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I went 5:14.

[Marques Brownlee]

Okay, we'll see.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Bro, you might sound like it was 800.

[Adam Doud]

No.

[Marques Brownlee]

Okay.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Marques, what did you put?

[Marques Brownlee]

I put five.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Unfortunately, as of my current list, you are one over. Unfortunately because I had got four on my list. David, you put three.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Which four did you.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I included Haiku, or I think it's pronounced Haiku because it starts with a J. Sonnet. I did Haiku spelled IQ with a J. It's because it's a cross between the word haiku and a Finnish word for like, short stories. And it was a Twitter clone.

[David Pierce]

Google Haiku.

[Marques Brownlee]

Wait, I don't remember that very well.

[David Pierce]

No, sorry, sorry.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Haiku cannot be on this list. Haiku was purchased by Google after it was launched. I take that back. So there are three. There are three. The correct answer is three. So David nailed it. Right on the money. Oh, no. But we put Google Buzz on the list.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, Buzz.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Oh yeah, Buzz, Google Friend Connect and Orkut. And I had never heard of Orkut, but Google really tried to make it happen and it only took off in Brazil.

[Marques Brownlee]

Can I read you a description of one and you can tell me if it's social media or not?

[Ellis Hamburger]

Sure.

[Marques Brownlee]

The description is a mobile app for group discussions and messaging developed by Google Intended to compete with Slack, but it was a content sharing platform where users can create a space, invite their friends for discussions, share videos, images, text, and other media.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I'm open to it, but what year did it launch?

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

2016. That is after Google got it and then. Okay, what else was I thinking? I like Google Wave as social media, but I still lose anyway. Okay, buzz, buzz.

[Ellis Hamburger]

If you are upset with the way I adjudicated this question, I encourage you to tweet at me or leave a comment.

[David Pierce]

Really?

[Andrew Cunningham]

Stick it to him by subscribing.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Dude, if you subscribed, I would hate that so much.

[David Pierce]

So I got the point.

[Adam Doud]

You got the point. And with that, you now are at 30 points. Andrew at 25, Marquez with 26.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Yeah, that's closer than I thought. Cool.

[Adam Doud]

That's a close.

[David Pierce]

Wait.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

How did you get so many points?

[Marques Brownlee]

I think Mirage got a few.

[David Pierce]

Do you have a crazy run or something?

[Marques Brownlee]

No. People when he was out. People.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Hell yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

All right. Yeah.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Team game.

[Adam Doud]

Question number two.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah.

[Adam Doud]

While Google didn't stick around, one feature built into Google eventually became a standalone product in 2013. What was it?

[Marques Brownlee]

I mean, Google didn't have very many features, but it did have these.

[David Pierce]

It had the entirety community on it. These.

[Marques Brownlee]

I'm trying to figure out which one stuck around.

[David Pierce]

Oh, iron.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I am.

[Marques Brownlee]

I. I think I'm wrong, but I'm gonna try it because I don't know the name.

[Adam Doud]

All right, flip them and read. What do you guys got?

[Andrew Cunningham]

I'm worried there's a really stupid answer.

[Marques Brownlee]

That's what it. Okay, we all said different things.

[David Pierce]

Four Square.

[Adam Doud]

And you just had a completely different company.

[Marques Brownlee]

So you go first.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Foursquare.

[David Pierce]

That's not a Google problem.

[Marques Brownlee]

I was torn between Circles or whatever the chat built into it was called, and I ended up just going with circles.

[David Pierce]

Nope. Hangouts.

[Adam Doud]

Correct.

[Marques Brownlee]

Oh, so that was what the chat was called. I used Hangouts Rip Hangouts a lot.

[Andrew Cunningham]

I loved Google Hangouts.

[David Pierce]

Which version?

[Ellis Hamburger]

Google Guy over here.

[David Pierce]

Remember when they integrated Hangouts with. With sms and then they took it out and then they put it back and then they took it out again.

[Marques Brownlee]

It was gonna be my unified messaging app. So many times.

[Andrew Cunningham]

So many times.

[Marques Brownlee]

And then it wasn't.

[Andrew Cunningham]

And then it was a little chat inside of Gmail.

[Marques Brownlee]

No, I knew better. I knew Google wasn't gonna stick with it. Cause when it finally got it, I forgot what phone was coming out. But I was like. It was like preloaded on the phones and it was sitting in the dock and I was like, oh, I could just use this. But I knew better.

[David Pierce]

The one that really broke my heart was Allo because Allo had such cool UI and the animations and the stickers were so awesome.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, that's because they were trying to copy iMessage and FaceTime. So they made Alo and Duo and

[Adam Doud]

they kept the worst one. Duo sucks. Alo should have been it, right?

[David Pierce]

Well, now it's just. I think they integrated Duo into Google.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Now it's just me doing this again. We're not doing the Google everything. Google Chat, meet Alo Duo call. We're not. Someone read us out.

[Marques Brownlee]

Hey, if you guys. If you made it this far, obviously you're. You're a true fan and you've listened to Deep into the podcast. So comment Deep if you made it this far.

[Ellis Hamburger]

And subscribe.

[Marques Brownlee]

And subscribe. Because of course you're probably already subscribed if you're this deep. But thank you for watching, thanks for subscribing, thanks for making it this deep in the pod. We'll catch you guys next week. Peace.

[David Pierce]

That's Deep.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Marques Waveform is produced by Adam and Ellis. We're partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network and Intra Outro music created by vainstill.com.

[David Pierce]

This weekend my friend came up to me that I have that he lives in another town and goes to a different school.

[Marques Brownlee]

You would know some Follow the noise. Bloomberg follows the money. Whether it's the funds fueling AI or crypto's trillion dollar swings, there's a money side to every story. Get the money side of the story. Subscribe [e-mail]

[Ellis Hamburger]

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[Marques Brownlee]

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[Ellis Hamburger]

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[Adam Doud]

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[Ellis Hamburger]

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