Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast

Episode: Can the iPhone 17 Pro Beat a Leica?

Date: October 3, 2025
Hosts: Marques Brownlee (MKBHD), Andrew Manganelli, David Imel, Adam
Special Guests: James Cameron, Andrew Bosworth (Meta CTO)

Episode Overview

This Techtober episode dives into the latest tech news and gear, featuring hands-on impressions of the Meta Ray-Ban Display smart glasses, rundown of Amazon and Google hardware launches, and a special game comparing raw photos from the iPhone 17 Pro and the Leica M11. The episode’s highlight is a fascinating segment with iconic filmmaker James Cameron, discussing the future of cameras, first-person video, and 3D media.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Show & Tell: Microsoft Windows XP Crocs

[02:09–07:02]

• Andrew’s big reveal: Microsoft XP-themed Crocs with “giblets/gibbets” referencing Windows icons (Recycle Bin, Clippy, etc.).
• The group riffed on Crocs design, comfort (textured braille insoles), and the culture of novelty shoe collaborations.
• Marques: “Is there something they could put on Crocs that would make you not like them? Windows Vista?”
• Lighter banter around Crocs in office culture and chef footwear.

2. First Impressions: Meta Ray-Ban Display Smart Glasses

[08:15–17:18]

• Marques wears and demos the shiny, display-equipped smart glasses ($800, with a Neuroband controller).
• Marques: “Is the future of computing going to end up in a place where I could be looking at my UI in front of my face... and it’s glasses?”
• Group observations: The display is bright (5,000 nits), field of view is limited but impressive, and the design tries to blend in with regular glasses—though they’re notably thick.
• Discussion on real-world reactions, use cases, and whether these are practical for “regular people” yet.
• Andrew: “It’s hard to review unless you’re inside that ecosystem—with WhatsApp and all that.”
• Marques references Casey Neistat’s recent video comparing Vision Pro and Meta Ray-Bans for future computing.

3. Quick Hits: Logitech MX Master 4 Hands-On

[17:35–22:30]

• Logitech’s new MX Master 4 mouse gets praise for materials, ergonomics, a customizable “action ring,” and USB-C dongle.
• The team shares configuration tips, quirks, and a PSA: don’t store the dongle in the mouse’s charge port—it gets stuck.

4. Amazon & Google Hardware Announcements

[22:37–38:44]

• Amazon Event Recap:
  • New Echo Show 8 & 11: Echo Show 11 gets a 1080p screen, both have mesh backs, and improved cameras. Priced at $179.99 (8”) and $219.99 (11”).
  • Echo Dot Max: Enlarged, high-bass Echo Dot, $100.
  • Kindle Scribe Color Soft: Amazon’s color e-ink tablet ($630), competing with Remarkable, with integrations for AI summarization.
  • Fire TV QLEDs and affordably-priced models, plus new Ring doorbells/cameras with “Retinal Vision” AI processing.
• Adam: “Most interesting is just how aggressively Amazon is trying to stay in your house.”
• Google Home Revamp:
  • Google is dropping the Nest naming, consolidating hardware and subscriptions under “Google Home.”
  • New Home app with Gemini (AI) integration, including context-aware voice controls, advanced video search, and automation.
  • Subscription overhaul: $10/mo (Standard), $20/mo (Advanced) for extra AI features.
  • New hardware: Doorbell, indoor/outdoor cams, and a Google Home speaker in bold new colors (ships Spring 2026).
• Marques: “Delete the Nest app—it’s finally over.”
• Mixed reactions to new subscription tiers and integration of Gemini, with confused parsing of Google’s messy tier structure.

5. Photo Game: iPhone 17 Pro RAW vs Leica M11

[44:10–66:16]

• Premise: Adam presents side-by-side alpine landscape photos on Google Slides; the team must guess if each was shot on the Leica M11 or iPhone 17 Pro (using Halide RAW app).
• Surprise: The iPhone’s RAWs often rival or even surpass Leica examples in detail, dynamic range, and tonal quality.
• Debates over telltale signs, e.g., highlight rolloff, sensor dust (“wait, is that a bird or sensor dust?”), color grading, and detail in shadows.
• Marques: “[The iPhone] is crazy good. You can take this with an iPhone 3GS if you had enough light!”
• General insight: with modern computational photography and RAW shooting—even pros can be fooled by flagship smartphone images in good light.

6. Feature Interview: James Cameron & Andrew Bosworth

[70:58–77:41]

On First-Person Storytelling & Smart Glasses

• James Cameron: “I think the filmmaker becomes the character... But we’ve got a whole generation coming up... used to being observed all the time. I think you can have a first-person narrative shot with first person lenses. Could be fully scripted... I wrote Strange Days in 1993 about people recording and selling experiences—turns out that’s the world we live in.”
• Marques: Relates to how YouTube puts the viewer in his shoes—technology now enables higher fidelity, more real-time presentation.
• Cameron: “You become the filmmaker and performer at the same time... We’re doing a deep sea expedition with multiple live feeds—will be a tech challenge to turn into content later.”
• On 3D video: “650 million years of evolution says yes [to stereoscopic video as the future]... The more your brain is active, the better you’ll remember, the more engaged you’ll be.”
• Andrew Bosworth: “Trends are to either extremely brief or extremely deep content. Depth for loyal viewers—compelling experiences—will keep growing easier.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [11:53] Marques on smart glasses: “This is a real thing that’s going to start happening out in the world.”
• [15:08] Andrew on smart glasses visibility: “Does Meta want these to blend in or stand out? It’s a fine line.”
• [23:51] Adam on Amazon events: “This started in 2017, when Amazon would just drop like 50 products.”
• [29:10] Ellis on e-ink devices: “I really don’t get what the use case of this is.”
• [74:27] James Cameron (on 3D’s future): “I think 650 million years of evolution says yes... we have two eyes for a reason. You want to engage people.”
• [77:19] James Cameron (on AI/3D vs native stereo): “Right now there’s one decisive advantage with native stereo cameras—real-time. But GenAI will catch up.”
• [53:31] Adam on iPhone RAWs: “The point I wanted to make is that phone processing sucks... if you want it to look like a real picture.”
• [62:10] Adam (after photo comparison): “You too, can take pretty cool pictures just with your phone. It’s pretty insane.”

Trivia & Quick Bits

• Amazon Echo Flex: Revealed as a wall plug adapter with a speaker and Alexa, not the predicted smart display or phone. [78:40]
• Echo Buds timeline: They’re still available for under $50. [80:18]
• Debunking: In horse racing, a horse finishing without a jockey doesn’t count. [40:03]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:09] – XP Crocs Show-and-Tell
• [08:15] – Meta Ray-Ban Display Impressions
• [17:35] – Logitech MX Master 4 Thoughts
• [22:37] – Amazon & Google Hardware News
• [44:10] – iPhone vs Leica Photo Game
• [70:58] – James Cameron Interview on First-Person Video & 3D
• [78:07] – What is the Echo Flex?
• [80:12] – Echo Buds Timeline/Trivia

Tone & Energy

The episode remains playful and nerdy with classic Waveform banter, frequently derailing into jokes or shoes but always circling back to gadgets, practical use, and implications for the future of tech. Expert guests (Cameron, Bosworth) bring gravitas, while the main hosts keep things personable and relatable, often poking fun at themselves and the quirks of modern product launches.

This episode demonstrates the speed at which consumer cameras—especially smartphones—are catching up to pro gear, and how rapidly the line between digital life and real-world interactions is blurring, whether via AR glasses, always-on voice assistants, or 3D-first content creation.