Phones Will Cost More, but This Camera Is Free?

Summary

Waveform: The MKBHD Podcast Episode Summary

Episode: Phones Will Cost More, but This Camera Is Free?
Date: January 16, 2026
Hosts: Marques Brownlee (MKBHD), Andrew Liszewski, David Imel, Ellis Hamburger, David Pierce

Overview

This Waveform episode tackles pressing changes in the tech landscape, focusing on rising costs in smartphones, unique trends in camera and software markets, and an in-depth look at Apple’s surprising partnership with Google for AI. The hosts break down the economics, user experience, and repercussions for consumers, also injecting pop culture tangents, memorable analogies, and lively banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Golden Globes Add Podcast Category

(02:00–04:44)

• New “Best Podcast” award at the Golden Globes; winner: “Good Hang” by Amy Poehler.
• Hosts riff on the unclear process of podcast nominations and metrics.
• Quote (Ellis, 02:44):

  "Listen, it's been my dream ever since I was a little boy to win the Golden Globe. So I think we need Waveform to win a Golden Globe in 2027."

2. Xiaomi 17 Ultra: A Camera Phone or a Camera With a Phone?

(04:47–08:57)

• Xiaomi 17 Ultra is discussed as more of a Leica camera with phone features than a typical smartphone.
• Leica branding is nearly omnipresent on the device, overshadowing Xiaomi itself.
• Hardware: Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5, 6800mAh battery, 6.9" 3500-nit 120Hz display, 90W fast charging.
• Camera ring with haptic feedback: a unique, tactile, fun (if slightly impractical) camera control tool.
• Hosts note the camera isn’t the “best” by technical measures but is a uniquely fun experience.
• Discussion of features like Leica's "Live Cinematography," “Ultra HDR Live," and the legacy of Leica's collaboration in mobile.
• Quote (David Pierce, 08:31):

  "I think it's a B+ camera. Weirdly, maybe not as good as the Xiaomi 17 Pro Max. But it has way more fun stuff that you can do with the camera."

3. Apple Creator Studio Suite: Subscription vs. One-Time Purchases

(11:03–18:19)

• Apple bundles apps like Final Cut Pro, Logic, Motion, and Keynote into a subscription suite (Creator Studio) at $13/month or $130/year.
• Infinite updates policy for single-app buyers is retained "for now," unlike Adobe’s all-subscription model.
• Students get a significant discount: $3/month or $30/year (including iPad versions).
• Some AI features and content exclusives will be subscription-only, notably in productivity apps, not creative ones.
• Comparative costs to Adobe Creative Cloud (which is $25/month for students), and App value proposition.
• Quote (David Pierce, 13:10):

  "I'm giving Apple the credit now because...you can just buy one app and get infinite updates forever and that's still a thing. So I'm happy about that."

4. Tesla's FSD (Full Self Driving): Subscription Only

(19:21–20:53)

• Tesla will soon only offer FSD via subscription ($99/month), eliminating lifetime purchase options.
• Subscription noted to be 'transferable' between cars—previously, ownership was tied to the vehicle.
• Secondary market effect: cars sold with FSD retain value, but buyers can’t carry FSD license to a new vehicle.
• Quote (David Imel, 20:22):

  "If you bought it permanently, it was locked to your car. So if you sold the car...you couldn't get it on another Tesla."

5. Apple Partners With Google Gemini for Siri's AI Foundation

(21:56–29:02)

• Apple will use Google’s Gemini LLM to power new Siri and AI features, following a 'blind test' for model quality.
• Private Cloud Compute ensures personal data is processed with Apple’s privacy safeguards.
• Raises the fate of OpenAI/ChatGPT integrations in iOS.
• Discussion: Why is Apple licensing, not building, its own LLM? Is not controlling this “core” tech a strategic risk?
• Most users won't notice or care which backend powers their AI if it “just works.”
• Quote (David Pierce, 23:48):

  "If you're getting a Gemini foundation model and Siri gets this huge LLM reboot...why would we have the OpenAI partnership anymore at all?"

• Quote (David Imel, 28:55):

  "It's just a statement that Google's the best one and that's the one they picked."

6. Phones Getting Pricier: The RAM/MEMORY Squeeze

(38:41–41:17)

• Carl Pei (Nothing) warns that memory (RAM) price hikes will force phone prices up or specs down.
• Memory costs could jump 5x year-over-year for “top tier” devices.
• Previous similar predictions re: tariffs didn’t materialize fully, big brands can absorb shocks better than indie players.
• Companies like Samsung can offset with profit from other divisions (e.g., memory sales); smaller brands are most exposed.
• Quote (David Pierce, 40:00):

  “Phones forever have relied on prices going down for these things...this year, 2026, that’s not true.”

• Debates over whether Apple/Samsung will eat the cost or pass it to consumers, and if supply contracts insulate Apple for now.

7. Fujifilm X Half Camera: From Fad to Freebie

(48:11–51:48)

• Fujifilm X Half: retro-inspired, intentionally "bad" fun digicam for the Gen Z/Alpha aesthetic.
• Launched at $850 (“camera made to be bad”—includes light leaks, plastic build, portrait LCD).
• Because it flopped, retailers now bundle it free with the XT5 or sell it for $650.
• Commentary on how tariffs and shifting fads spike or crash device prices.
• Quote (David Imel, 50:11):

  “It’s so expensive. Really cool camera, really fun, really cute. But $850.”

8. Grok/Picture Manipulation & Platform Responsibility

(52:20–56:09)

• X (Twitter)’s Grok LLM enables easy AI image manipulation; immediately abused for deepfakes.
• Regulators in the UK/EU moving to force X to retain related records.
• Legislative moves: UK criminalizes malicious deepfakes; US introduces right to civil action.
• Hosts call out Apple & Google for not pulling the app in response.
• Quote (David Imel, 54:44):

  "Sundar Pichai and Tim Cook should have pulled this from their app store. As soon as this started happening."

9. Car Analogies: Corvette ZR1X’s Outlier Status

(63:03–70:35)

• The new Corvette ZR1X is the fastest American production car ever, with supercar performance at a fraction of the price.
• Tech analogy: Like a $550 OnePlus 15 with the world’s best camera, easily outperforming devices costing 4-10x as much.
• Side discussion on what enables such a leap in performance for the price.

10. Bonus: Fun Segments and Tech/Basketball Analogies

(70:59–79:57)

• Translating sports trades (“Trey Young trade”) into tech terms—comparing NBA player trades to hardware swaps among tech companies (e.g., trading the OnePlus 15 for a CMF Phone 2 Pro and accessories).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Apple’s Subscription Apps:
  “Honestly, like it feels crazy that we are even able to buy software once anymore. Like that seems magical that you can buy Final Cut one time for 300. It is a lost art.” – David Imel (14:41)

• On Apple's Gemini Deal:
  “It just means that's where it came from... Apple still retains the user. They control the user interface... So how much does it actually matter outside of the financials that they picked Google?” – David Pierce (26:56)

• On Carl Pei's ‘Phones Will Cost More’ Tweet:
  “I think Carl just taking the time to write this super long paragraph... is proof that the Nothing Phone is going to get more expensive this year and he's already making excuses for it.” – Ellis Hamburger (44:26)

• On the Leica-Badged Xiaomi:
  “It says the word Leica more than it says the word Xiaomi... That says a lot about what's going on here.” – David Pierce (05:09)

• Fujifilm X Half Analysis:
  “This camera feels like the R&D and design people—all of the money went to that. Because the app is also very good. When you transfer the photos... you can see the negatives and then they develop and then they turn into positives.” – David Imel (49:24)

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment/Event | |-----------|----------------| | 02:00–04:44 | Golden Globes podcast category, nomination process | | 04:47–08:57 | Xiaomi 17 Ultra “Leica Camera” deep dive | | 11:03–18:19 | Apple Creator Studio subscription & software economics | | 19:21–20:53 | Tesla FSD moves to subscription-only model | | 21:56–29:02 | Apple Gemini partnership, LLMs, fate of Siri & ChatGPT | | 38:41–41:17 | Discussion of RAM shortages and implications for phone pricing | | 48:11–51:48 | The Fujifilm X Half “bad camera” and its wild pricing trajectory | | 52:20–56:09 | Grok LLM abuse, regulatory responses, and app store responsibilities | | 63:03–70:35 | Corvette ZR1X as tech analogy for value per dollar | | 70:59–79:57 | Translating NBA trades to tech world analogies |

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Style and Tone

The episode embodies Waveform’s classic mix of deep industry insight, skepticism, and humor, often poking fun at both themselves and the absurdities of tech marketing and media coverage. The hosts highlight both user-centric and industry-level impacts, using rich analogies and listener-focused explanations.

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For New Listeners

Expect an informative and lively discussion, spanning new product quirks, the economics underlying your favorite gadgets, evolving tech industry business models (especially around subscriptions), and topical AI/ethical dilemmas. You’ll come away with context for upcoming changes in product pricing, insight into what’s driving trends in smartphone and software markets, as well as some fun “if tech companies made NBA trades” thought experiments.

Transcript

[Marques Brownlee]

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[Andrew Liszewski]

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[David Imel]

area where now we're insane on.

[Andrew Liszewski]

It's like, it's like I was looking it up, like now, like, sticks of RAM cost about as much as the actual RAM upgrades for Apple, dude.

[David Pierce]

Like, you try doubling the ram in a MacBook, it's like, that'll cost you another Mac $800. What is up, people of the Internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Pod. We're your hosts. I'm Marques.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I'm Andrew.

[David Imel]

And I'm David.

[David Pierce]

So this week in January, We've got a Xiaomi 17 Ultra in the house. We'll talk about that. We also might talk about why your smartphone might cost more, maybe. We also have some stuff to talk about with something called the Fuji X half, which I'm told is a total bust.

[Ellis Hamburger]

We've talked about it on this podcast before. Well, we'll see, obviously.

[David Pierce]

And I also want to explain something to you guys in tech terms that I think would be really interesting to try to explain.

[Ellis Hamburger]

But first, I have a butt first, of course. Did anyone see there's a best podcast award at the Golden Globes this year?

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Are you serious?

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

There was.

[David Imel]

Golden Globes website, by the way, is very bad. It's very broken.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I'm not surprised.

[David Pierce]

That's the least surprising sentence I've heard in a long time.

[David Imel]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Well, Amy Poehler won with Good Hang, which is a great podcast. But I think as a podcast, it's only fitting for us to ask for your help. I had no idea how the Golden Globes work. I Actually don't really know what the Golden Globes is about, if I'm being honest or what form of media they award, because now there's a podcast. But listen, it's been my dream ever since I was a little boy to win the Golden Globe. So I think we need waveform to win a Golden Globe in 2027. How do we do that? I don't know you as the audience can help us, but this is our plea.

[Marques Brownlee]

You're supposed to apply. I think it's on you.

[Ellis Hamburger]

We can apply.

[Marques Brownlee]

I think you're supposed to apply.

[Ellis Hamburger]

My bad. We're applying next year.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. First of all, these shows are always like, I'll be doing something on a Sunday night or whatever, and I'll get a news notification and be like, the Emmys are about to start. And I'm like, I don't care at all. Sorry, but that happened with the Golden Globes. And then I was made aware of the new podcast category.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It would be so funny to see all the tables of celebrities and then just us twiddling our thumbs, waiting to win.

[David Pierce]

Best podcast was nominated for best podcast for a Golden Globe. Was it actually good podcasts or was it just celebrities who are at the Golden Globes who also happen to have a podcast?

[Ellis Hamburger]

Mostly that good.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Hang with Amy Poehler, Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard, Call Her Daddy with Alex Cooper, the Mel Robbins podcast with Mel Robbins, Smartless with Jason Bateman, Will Arnett and Sean Hayes.

[David Imel]

And they're like an OG first and up first.

[Ellis Hamburger]

So up first is in there, npr, npr. And then, I mean, Call Her Daddy did start as a podcast. The rest of them are pretty much.

[David Pierce]

It's a podcast.

[Andrew Liszewski]

It's a podcast.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I know it started as a podcast where everything else.

[Andrew Liszewski]

What does it mean it started?

[Ellis Hamburger]

I'm saying everyone else is a celebrity that made a podcast. Call Her Daddy is a person who got super famous because she started a podcast.

[David Pierce]

I mean, we're a podcast. We're also. We are channel.

[David Imel]

We're a talk show.

[David Pierce]

Also a YouTube video.

[Ellis Hamburger]

We're going to be at the Golden Globes next year.

[David Pierce]

I. I'm not entirely sure what they are, but yes. Golden Globes, Emmys, Grammys, Oscars, and whatever the other ones are. We should.

[Ellis Hamburger]

We should be the Video Game Awards.

[Andrew Liszewski]

According to Wikipedia, we have to be one of the top 25 most listened to podcasts to have been on what platform? I don't know.

[David Pierce]

Still the most nebulous. Yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

According to their data partner Luminant that decides based on analytics.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Podcast numbers are such A black box. Nobody knows what they are.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, and nobody willing to show.

[Ellis Hamburger]

We'll be there.

[David Imel]

Let's just have Amy Poehler on our podcast and then we'll be fine.

[Ellis Hamburger]

That would be awesome.

[David Pierce]

Well, I want to show you guys this, this phone real quick. So I'm working on a video about this. We already reviewed the Xiaomi 17 Pro and Pro Max, which were, let's be honest, iPhone 17 Pro and Pro Max clones, design wise anyway. But then they added a bunch of other features and the theme was really cool because they one upped the iPhone. This very different. This ultra. It's basically just a camera. It's a camera phone. It's made by Leica. I unboxed this phone on camera. It came with a case, a lens cap, a microfiber to clean the lens, and a lanyard to like use it like a regular camera. It says the word Leica more than it says the word Xiaomi. It says it over here, it's a Leica camera. Over on the back it's a Leica camera. On the lens it's a Leica camera. And by the way, it's a Xiaomi. Like that's. That says a lot about what's going on here.

[David Imel]

Well, Leica did have a Leica phone, but it was notably really, really bad.

[David Pierce]

It's bad.

[David Imel]

They made two generations of it and it was terrible.

[David Pierce]

So that's what's cool about this phone is I am mostly interested in the camera experience. Has Leica modes and obviously very high end hardware and it takes really good photos and videos. But it also is a Xiaomi flagship phone, so the rest of the phone happens to be really good too. It's a Snapdragon 8 Elite Gen 5. It's got 6800 milliamp hour silicon carbon battery, really bright 6.9 inch, 3500 nit display, 120Hz 90 watt, fast charging. So it's a Xiaomi flagship still, but it's got all this camera stuff. And maybe the most interesting part, which I'm gonna talk more about in the video, is this ring around the lens does turn and it has function. It quick launches the camera app and then once you're in the camera app, it's probably zoomed in on my phone right now.

[Ellis Hamburger]

This is an awesome.

[David Imel]

That is way better than camera control.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, it's a. Well, at first you would think that it is. It is. But it, I think might be a little bit of a novelty because I liked it at first. I thought it was really fun, but Then I saw I've been using it slowly less and less, except for certain cases. It's fun. You can map it to ev. Yeah. You can hold it. You can map it to, like, EV control or shutter speed or just zoom or whatever. In different modes, you could do that. So in pro mode, I think it's. Or in video mode, it changes your exposure value. In regular photo mode, it just zooms in and out, and it's just a smooth turning wheel. But there's a haptic click.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's. The haptic is really good.

[David Pierce]

Haptic click is pretty convincing. Oh, yeah. Wow. So it's nice. It feels like a little ratchet click. Yeah. So it's cool. But, you know when you just hold the phone and use it like regular, your finger sometimes bumps that camera ring and you feel some random haptic clicks sometimes, which is a little bit annoying.

[Ellis Hamburger]

The other thing is, like, when you're generally adjusting focus or zoom on a lens, it's like the lens is long enough that you've got some room to play with this. When I go to use it, I'm using my thumb and index or middle finger, and I'm immediately putting my pinky right in front of the lens.

[David Pierce]

Yep. That's. That is a. That's something I've noticed more and more. So I. I love the idea of just making a smartphone that is all about the camera, and that's mostly what I'm focusing on for this. But it is kind of funny that this is not the best camera.

[David Imel]

It's does not seem like the best

[David Pierce]

camera, and it's not the best camera experience, but it might be the most fun camera experience, like having a. Having a lens cap that you can throw on the end of your phone, having all these fun modes, this Leica essential mode, and all this character and fun that you can throw into your photos and videos. It's very capable and it's very fun and versatile, and I've taken some fun shots already. I'm gonna keep shooting with it over the weekend, but, yeah, it's just an. It's an Interesting Xiaomi 17 flagship, I would say.

[David Imel]

Yeah. Just taking a couple photos. This is not a good camera.

[David Pierce]

I think it's an okay. I think it's a B plus camera. I think it's weirdly, maybe not as good as the Xiaomi 17 Pro Max.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

But it has way more fun stuff that you can do with the camera in photos, videos in the camera ring, accessories, and all that fun stuff.

[David Imel]

Right.

[David Pierce]

So that's. That's what it's about. And it's just Leica everywhere. I'm surprised. I'm not that surprised, but I'm kind of surprised how much I think it's called the 17 Ultra by Leica.

[David Imel]

Okay.

[David Pierce]

And then there's, like, on the box, like, on the case, on the accessories, on the phone, in the software.

[David Imel]

So it has a live cinematography feature, which is in the camera app. And there are different things that you can do with it. So one of them is red carpet, where it slow zooms in on you.

[David Pierce]

Nice.

[David Imel]

There's a portrait. There's freestyle, which it doesn't really describe what any of these things are. It just kind of shows little mini videos.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[David Imel]

There's ultra HDR Live, which sounds terrible.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, there's all kinds of features that are just kind of like them throwing everything at the wall.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Tooling on the rails is. There's, like, grooves and just the etching of the like. Like I made by Germany is all really nice.

[David Pierce]

Oh, that's like a side of the

[David Imel]

phone that kind of makes my back tingle.

[David Pierce]

Oh, I might do a short with ASMR with this. This is pretty fire. But, yeah, it's. It's interesting.

[Andrew Liszewski]

So Leica just put out that iPhone app called Leica Lux.

[David Imel]

Yeah, like a Lux.

[Andrew Liszewski]

That's the manual. Oh, how's it for a bit? Well, Leica has an iPhone app that is a manual camera sort of.

[David Imel]

Sort of thing, which is very good,

[Andrew Liszewski]

but it's iPhone only, so I'm curious if this phone has some of the Lux functionalities built into it.

[David Imel]

It doesn't seem like it does.

[David Pierce]

This is like a central mode on the side. Like, like a bunch of different, like, monochrome, not filters, but like, literally image processing modes. Here's the thing that look like a Leica.

[David Imel]

There are many different, like, wings of, like, arms of Leica.

[David Pierce]

Right.

[David Imel]

As a company, there's, like the licensing wing. There's like. There's. When you go to, like, a Qualcomm Snapdragon Summit event and they're talking about the new chip, they have someone from, like, the Leica software portion of Leica that comes on and says, oh, here's how we optimized for these Leica looks on this. That's like a totally different wing of the company than the camera portion of the company. Because there's licensing. There's this, this. This. To me, this kind of just feels like it's primarily licensing with, like, maybe one or two people that are like, hey, we can optimize this for the Leica look, but it's probably not Leica, the main brand that's doing most of this.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Well, if you ever want to edit your photos, Apple just introduced Apple Creator Studio.

[David Imel]

Well, but you can't really edit photos in the Creator Studio.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. Somewhere you need a pixelmator.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Have you ever used numbers before?

[David Imel]

Oh, yeah, pixelmator.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[David Imel]

Have you ever used numbers like editing

[Andrew Liszewski]

a photo where every pixel is one cell in a spreadsheet?

[David Imel]

Or Marques who edits his thumbnails in Final Cut Pro?

[David Pierce]

Yeah, you know. So, okay, Apple introduces the Creator Studio suite, which is not anything new as far as the apps you use, but it is bundling a bunch of Apple's apps into one thing that you pay a subscription for. Specifically 13 bucks a month or about $130 a year. And it comes with a bunch of apps that are pretty expensive as standalone apps, which is cool. I remember I paid, I think $400 or so for Final Cut Pro like a decade ago, and I've gotten all of the updates since then. I've never paid more than once. It's on every single one of my Macs. 300 bucks. It's an incredible. For me, that's an incredible deal for how much I use Final Cut Pro. Right. So if you use a bunch of these apps, then it's maybe a good deal or it's something to consider. The other interesting thing about this, the more you look into it, and I had to clarify some of this with Apple and by reading the press releases, there will be some features like AI features or premium content built into some of the subscription versions of the apps that are not in the standalone versions of the apps. Specifically the productivity apps, not the creative apps will get this premium content or AI stuff. Yeah.

[David Imel]

Keynote Pages and Freeform are going to get Apple intelligence features that are specific to Creator Studio.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. So I was curious about Final Cut Pro cause they announced a couple new things like beat matching cuts or being able to search through an automatically transcribed video to go to a certain place on your timeline, stuff like that. All of that stuff is coming to both the subscription version and the standalone version. So I was like, okay, are you going to make me switch to a subscription for Final Cut? Even though I've been getting all the features for the last decade currently, the answer is no. It's gonna be on both versions.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Thank you for saying currently.

[David Pierce]

So I am giving Apple the credit now because if, you know, you see a lot of companies go, all right, it's a subscription. Adobe, well, you basically don't own the software. You Constantly have to pay for it. And Apple has had a pretty rare thing for a long time with apps like Final Cut Pro where you buy it once it's on all your computers. Infinite updates forever. That's amazing. And they're not shelving that. That's staying around. So if you don't need Motion Compressor Keynote, all these other apps, if you just need Final Cut Pro and pixelmator like me, you can just buy one app and get Infinite updates forever and that's still a thing. So I'm happy about that.

[David Imel]

It's Infinite updates for the one time. They update it every five years.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, they update Final Cut with every OS basically with like one or two features.

[David Imel]

One or two features.

[David Pierce]

I think the magic mask thing was the last significant thing. Yeah. Magnetic mass they added was the last like impressive thing they added to Totally Pro.

[David Imel]

Totally.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[David Imel]

Yeah. There's a lot of stuff in DaVinci resolve that I think they really could compete with.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[David Imel]

I don't know. Apple really needs to get this going. Their services game. They've been trying to be fuffed because they are terrified of the world where the iPhone is not their main money driver anymore. So they've been doing a good job in general of beefing this up and I think it makes sense for them to like get want recurring revenue. Especially since these apps, you know, $300 permanently one time. Honestly, like it feels crazy that we are even able to buy software once anymore. Like that seems magical that you can buy Final Cut one time for 300. It is a lost art.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[David Imel]

But this does make it a lot more affordable and generally I'm like very against monthly subscription stuff. But I think the really interesting thing is that students, if you're, if you have an Edu account or you, you know, are you a student, it's $3 a month or $30 a year.

[David Pierce]

That's a huge discount. Very. Like the student Discounts usually like 10% off or something. Yeah. This is a massive deal.

[Ellis Hamburger]

There's some good ones. This is also awesome because like if you're going to school and potentially doing this, maybe you do it for a year and then you're like, oh, I'm going to go into this professionally, I should buy the one time thing.

[David Imel]

Right.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Because I'm going to really long time.

[David Pierce]

That's a really good. Now that I'm thinking about it, a great strategy from Apple. Like if the most important customer to you is someone who is beginning their life as like a working professional or they're about to start learning creative apps you want this to be the best deal the obvious go to so that these people are like, used to your apps and then they grow, they grow up and they pay a little more. But, like, you want the customer first.

[David Imel]

Well, that value is even better because the iPad version of Final cut is a $5 a month subscription and so is the iPad version of Logic. So if you're only paying $3 for everything and it, it includes the iPad versions, the Creative Studio, that's a no brainer. Yeah. So it is like you're saving a ton of money if you're doing that. But even the regular version, that's 13, you are already paying the. The $5 for I for the iPad Final Cut and the $5 for the iPad Logic, that's 10. So it's a additional 3.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I mean, even this is still a great. Even the 12.99amonth, like, you might just be like, all right, I want to start doing some editing stuff. Pay for two months is still better than $300 to try it and then figure it out and decide.

[David Pierce]

I'm asking someone who's watching this podcast to do the math for me. Add up the prices of buying one time all of these apps, how many months and then how a bad deal. Like the subscription for the first month you win. For the second month you win. For as many months as you've paid less than it costs to have access to all these apps, you win. But somebody watching this has a calculator and they can find the total value of all the software and how many months it would take years. It's probably a pretty good amount of time. Yeah.

[David Imel]

As long as they jack up the prices every year. Like every subscription service tends to be so true.

[David Pierce]

I hope they keep it this way because, like, Final Cut's been the same price for forever. Yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

For reference to the Adobe Creative Cloud subscription is $25 per month for a student.

[David Pierce]

For a student.

[Marques Brownlee]

So it's probably eight times the price

[David Imel]

of the Apple one and the regular one. To be fair though, like, Apple does not really have competitors to every Adobe app in terms of quality and professionalism. Yeah, you just like pixelmator is Pixelmator. And it's, it's really good for what it is. And they bought it, you know, they bought it. Motion is horrible.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[David Imel]

Motion is not after.

[David Pierce]

Motion is not after effects.

[David Imel]

A lot of these are very, very pro. Like, a lot of people use Logic Pro, so there's that. But many of these are not true competitors to Adobe's app suite.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Logic Pro is a Weird one because it's. I like, I use it for almost everything here, but there's definitely a lot of professional work that it does not have the feature set required. That being said, it's the only app on here that Adobe like, does not like. Audition.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Andrew Liszewski]

You're using Audition?

[David Imel]

Yeah, for sure.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. Final Cut is, is, is kind of in a similar place. Like it's really good for what I use it for. We use it a lot here at the studio. But there is an Adobe equivalent. I mean Premiere is Premiere and After Effects is in a totally different league from Motion. So like you could be swayed to the more expensive one if you need After Effects. But yeah, I kind of wonder what kind of person uses a bunch of these apps. Like I only use two of them. Me personally. Yeah, I use Final Cut and pixelmator. Yeah. Somewhere out there there's a creative professional who also uses Logic and Motion for some reason. And Keynote.

[David Imel]

Does anyone use Motion?

[David Pierce]

Shout out to that creator.

[David Imel]

Well, that's the funny thing is like doesn't Kino and don't all of those apps like Kino and what is it, Numbers, those come pre installed on your computer?

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah, I guess you get the like

[David Imel]

so you just get the AI iFood versions. We don't even know what that's going to look like yet.

[Andrew Liszewski]

I want to know what they're added to. Freeform. Yeah.

[David Pierce]

What is Freeform?

[David Imel]

I love Freeform.

[Andrew Liszewski]

I like between Freeform. I think Freeform and Reminders are the two like Apple included apps I use the most now.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

Oh, Freeform. This is. Oh, Freeform.

[Andrew Liszewski]

It's Apple. Figma. Yeah, we don't. I do.

[David Imel]

You do.

[David Pierce]

I love use freeform.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Oh my God, I love Freeform.

[David Pierce]

Oh, I thought you were sarcastic.

[Andrew Liszewski]

No, no, no, no.

[David Pierce]

This could be for you then because you use Logic and it's two apps right there.

[Andrew Liszewski]

I own Logic.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. Do you use pixelmator?

[Andrew Liszewski]

No.

[David Pierce]

Do you use Keynote?

[Ellis Hamburger]

No.

[David Pierce]

Final Cut?

[Andrew Liszewski]

No.

[David Pierce]

Well, you know, speaking of subscriptions, there's also some news in the subscription world. Mostly it's just that Tesla FSD is now going to no longer, I think on February 14, no longer be offered as a single payment. It will only be a subscription. So I think it was, I don't even remember. It was a couple thousand dollars to add it onto the price of your car if you didn't want to pay the subscription to have FSD on it was many thousands.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah, I think a couple thousand. Selling it short.

[David Pierce]

It went on like 8, like it

[David Imel]

was, it was like 15k at one point. Yeah. And I think fluctuated a lot.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, yeah.

[David Imel]

Fluctuate.

[David Pierce]

Way more palatable for it to be $99 a month. But also it's, you have to pay every month. So again you'll do the math on how long you have to own that car for it to be not as. I mean it doesn't matter anymore because you can't do the one time payment. But that, that is a new subscription.

[Ellis Hamburger]

One thing I saw is I guess one positive this is if you're paying for subscription, it quote unquote transfers two cars.

[David Pierce]

Right.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Because previously if you're doing a one time payment and you sell that car, it goes with the car. Whatever stupid reason.

[David Imel]

It was so stupid. Yeah. It was like if you bought it permanently, it was locked to your car. So if you sold the car, you couldn't get it on it. If you bought another Tesla or whatever.

[David Pierce]

But it would, it would mean you could sell the car for more. Yeah.

[David Imel]

Which is what Tesla does with their leases because they don't let you buy out a lease. So what they do is like you lease the car, you give it back to them, they activate the full self driving and then they sell the car as like a, as like a pre leased car but with full self driving cost more. They sell it at full retail value.

[David Pierce]

Got it?

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Sick.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I love subscriptions.

[David Imel]

Subscription is my life. Well, speaking of things that may or may not have subscriptions, we're not really sure yet. Apple has formally come out and announced that they are going to be using Gemini to power the new Siri. Yeah, if you guys remember properly, two years ago now when they announced the new Siri that we all got very excited for, we didn't really know how it was gonna go. But then you know, they had the OpenAI partnership where you can, you know, ask Chat GPT and you can send queries to ChatGPT. People are like, is ChatGPT gonna be on device and is it gonna power the Siri features? We're not really sure. Now Google and Apple have issued a joint statement that say that Apple did a blind test and that Gemini provides the most capable foundation for our foundation models. Which is ironic and funny. Yeah. They're also going to be running on Apple's private cloud Compute so queries won't get shared to Google and stuff like that, which is nice. And they get deleted off Apple servers. We're still apparently supposed to see it this year. The rumor is that in the spring some of the features will start to trickle out and then the full fledged this is what it's doing is going to come out at WWDC only two years late and I hope they also roll back liquid glass. But that's going to. That's another conversation. So let's talk about this a little bit. You made a whole video about this.

[David Pierce]

I made a whole video about this. There's a lot of interesting like thoughts floating around about what this could mean and what it definitely means. I think the most interesting one to me is Siri. Okay. It's actually going to finally have. Because we keep talking about Siri. There's a whole bunch of Apple intelligence stuff. We're just Talking about the LLMs and the foundations behind Siri. Siri bad now. Siri could be good soon. Exciting. And it will be, it will be able to do all these things that Gemini is already doing and is already good at, which is very exciting. What else will Apple add on top of it? Because I don't know, it's not going to just be a one to one clone. It's a foundation model and then they build a bunch of stuff on top of it to obviously build things like that feature from the commercial they deleted where you ask Siri about some appointment or whatever and it remembers where you were at a certain time on your calendar, whatever that was happening. Like they got to build stuff on top of it and make their own features. What are those going to be? We'll see. The other one is what else aside from the LLMs would this help with? Because I brought up in my video circle to search which might touch this, might not touch it at all. But as of right now, the Apple intelligence feature where you do a visual search of what's on your screen, just does a Google Image search which is pretty basic. But what if it had all the Gemini goodness and you did like True Circle to search just like Android and it could search anything. It could search an image and know what type of dog breed it is or what map location that event is happening at or all these other things. I think that would be really interesting to keep an eye on.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

And then the other question is what happens to the OpenAI integration with ChatGPT? Because as of right now, the way it works is this is like very bolted onto the side. Siri does Siri things and if you ask Siri a question that is too complicated complicated or multi step OR whatever and ChatGPT would be better for it, which is lots of things it will literally ask you, hey, can I, can I use ChatGPT to do this and you say yes, and then it does that query. But if you're getting a Gemini foundation model and Siri gets this huge LLM reboot, it will theoretically not ever have to kick out to something it can't do anymore. Right. So why would we have the OpenAI partnership anymore at all?

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

So that we'll see what happens with that.

[David Imel]

I don't think we've ever really discussed how insane it was that in the settings menu of your iPhone you could open a login portal to the OpenAI ChatGPT login website.

[David Pierce]

Pretty crazy.

[David Imel]

In the settings menu of your phone. That's crazy.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Andrew Liszewski]

You still can.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, I know.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Imel]

I'm just saying, like, it's an insane thing that they did when they announced

[Ellis Hamburger]

all this and the ChatGPT integration. Am I remembering correct that they said there would be other models that you could choose to answer some of the questions and in the future and that that would be a choice you could have?

[David Imel]

So at the event at wwdc, there was a Q and A afterwards and they said Gemini will be an option in the future. Which never happened.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[David Imel]

But if they're using it as the foundation model, theoretically you wouldn't even need to do your whole model picker thing.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I wonder. Well, I guess my wonder was if they're trying to portray this choice that you have.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Would they keep a chatgpt as an option to throw out to or have other options in the future? I doubt Google wants that to happen. I think most people think right now like default chat GPT open AI is going out the window.

[David Imel]

Yeah, probably. It's just too much complexity. I think that they just don't want consumers to have to go through the whole model picking thing. Yeah, it's a lot. It's better if it's just behind the scenes than it just does stuff and you don't even have to think about it.

[David Pierce]

Yep. That's how it is ideal for most people. Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I'm sure Apple wants it to be as behind the scenes as possible. They'll make this announcement dub dub will mention it and they'll probably never mention Google's name ever.

[David Pierce]

About as small of an announcement as. This wasn't a newsroom post. This was like they gave one quote to one outlet.

[David Imel]

It was on the Google keyword blog.

[David Pierce]

But the blog was. Google made their post.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

And then Apple didn't make it.

[David Imel]

There was no.

[David Pierce]

We agree. Yeah, there it is. Yeah.

[David Imel]

It's a joint statement from Google and Apple on the keyword and it was two paragraphs.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. It was as small of a splash as you could make. Yeah. So, yeah, and then I made a video about it.

[David Imel]

So it is crazy though, because like you would assume Apple is very, very used to making their own versions of things because they don't like relying on other people. And the most that they've relied on other people is using Google search for things which they, you know, notably there was a lot of money that was flowing between those companies which then they got sued for. So it seems like they would be less likely, especially for like the future of the iPhone, to be powered by a Google model is going to be a recurring deal that they're going to have to keep making with Google until the end of, like, it doesn't seem like Apple is investing in making their own LLM.

[David Pierce]

So here's. This is the. The last thought I had about this is how much does that really matter? Like, if we. I know we can't do this, but let's take the money out of the equation. Okay. You're using Siri. It's falling back on a device, a model on the device that happens to have been made by Google. Cool. That doesn't mean new users for Google. That doesn't mean new info or data for Google. It just means that that's where it came from. Yeah. And Apple still retains the user. They still have the. They control the user interface and everything. And so you have. So if one day it happened to switch to ChatGPT, and if that's just as good as Gemini, the user shouldn't notice. It will still not have any of your history because it's not like feeding any data to that company. It's not any flow of users from Google to OpenAI. It's just the user keeps using Siri and it just keeps working. So how much does it actually matter outside of the financials that they picked Google?

[David Imel]

Yeah, there's a lot of question marks because they have their private cloud compute thing, which is supposed to not keep a lot of your queries and all that stuff. But at the same time, part of the new Siri features is that it remembers things about you and then it dynamically suggests you things and puts things on your calendar for you. So that's something in which it's going to have to retain a certain level of information. And then the question mark that I have is, is that information just retained locally on the device and can that easily pass to a new model that gets pushed to the device?

[David Pierce]

Probably not pass to a new model, but I think that will be? The idea is like Apple builds all their functionality on top of this model that happens to be Gemini. But the point of it being Gemini is it's just way more information and way smarter. So then, yeah, they can build their, like look into the user's apps and have all this data happening locally and be really helpful. But like that's not showing up as like a Google user or anything like that. It's just a statement that Google's the best one and that's the one they picked.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

Which is like a big deal for people who follow the race and which one's better, which one's number one. But after that it's like, yep, okay, Siri is going to be better now. Great.

[David Imel]

It is interesting that Apple didn't decide to invest in this, this whole AI race compared to everybody else. Everyone thought they were going to buy Anthropic for a long time.

[David Pierce]

That would be an investment.

[David Imel]

They should have done that like two years ago. I don't think Anthropic would sell to them at this point.

[David Pierce]

But yeah, it's, it's a statement about how much Apple believes that this AI race is actually a meaningful race to be involved in.

[David Imel]

Correct? Yes. Yeah.

[David Pierce]

I mean if they, they never decided to build and ship a search engine, that just means they figured it was never going to be worth it to Apple. That doesn't mean they don't think search engines matter. That just means they don't think it's worth it to be involved in that business.

[David Imel]

Well, and the Metaverse, remember like, and

[Ellis Hamburger]

the Metaverse, they were like, they already got fire half or didn't meta just fire a huge amount of people? Yeah, they, they, because they're just like

[David Imel]

cut a bunch of funding to the Metaverse division and there's like a hundred people that are still using it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean Apple didn't notably did not invest in that for, because they thought it might just be a fad. And then they notably did not invest in AI because they thought it might just be a fad or at least the LLM like Hype wave. Now I think that they're like, okay, well we have to do. But it's still surprising that they haven't tried to build up their own infrastructure.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's also on the back of like, it's not just a fad, it's a fad that could potentially help a product that they've had that's been terrible for a while. So like, I guess it links a little closer, but at A certain point, people are still buying iPhones and using garbage. Siri, is it easier to just continue to be like, no, no, Siri will be good one day.

[David Imel]

Yeah. And how many regular users actually are like, siri is bad. And that's why I'm going to buy a Google phone? Like, I don't really know how much.

[David Pierce]

Very few people. But I think Apple at least sees the writing that there are people who are like, look at all these cool things that circle the search. And Gemini and all these AI like built in features on Android phones is doing. At least we can match that. Just to make sure that's not a reason why you're leaving. The iPhone and the fact that they

[David Imel]

announced it very publicly and made advertisements around it and then haven't been able to deliver.

[David Pierce]

That's true.

[David Imel]

Very embarrassed.

[David Pierce]

Clearly planned on delivering. Yeah, yeah. So the only other connection I can make between businesses slash fads that Apple has decided not to invest in, which at this point is just search engines and their AI foundation models and multiple

[Ellis Hamburger]

wireless chargers in one and the Metaverse.

[David Imel]

Oh yeah.

[David Pierce]

Well, I guess between those two is Airpower.

[Ellis Hamburger]

They.

[David Pierce]

Those two are reliant on all this data. And Apple's thing.

[David Imel]

Yes.

[David Pierce]

Is privacy and not sharing user data for sure. And so if you're Apple and you're going, should we invest a ton in building our own foundation models and competing with OpenAI and all these companies that are just inhaling data. No, because that's not in the wheelhouse of like how they make money or what they do. And same with a search engine. Like Apple could build the UI to a search engine.

[David Imel]

Sure.

[David Pierce]

But all the other things that make a search engine good are not things that Apple really does.

[David Imel]

Yeah. Google makes money on data. They don't care about the pixel. Apple makes money on the iPhone. They don't care about the data.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[David Imel]

And that is. That is basically it boiled.

[David Pierce]

Well said. Yeah. Yeah.

[David Imel]

We got more to talk about in the future, including why things are more expensive.

[David Pierce]

Maybe.

[David Imel]

Probably. Welcome to every day of the week.

[David Pierce]

But before that, trivia. Also, Mariah's here.

[David Imel]

Hi.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Hi.

[Ellis Hamburger]

She spoke a couple times in this episode.

[David Pierce]

I'm assuming trivia might be coming from

[Ellis Hamburger]

Mariah today, but not yet.

[David Pierce]

Okay.

[Andrew Liszewski]

This question is inspired by a listener of the show I ran into in the City yesterday named Sam, who is an architecture student. So everybody say, hi, Sam.

[David Pierce]

What up, Sam.

[David Imel]

Hi, Sam.

[Andrew Liszewski]

And in researching possible architecture questions, I found something really funny. Not just about architecture, but about the great state of New Jersey, which is that New Jersey is Home to many, many, many different styles of architecture. But there is one that is actually only found in Staten island and North Jersey. What is the name of this two word alliterative style of New Jersey architecture of which the first word is a city here in North Jersey.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Oh,

[David Imel]

carny core.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I like.

[Andrew Liszewski]

That's, that's, that's kind of the answer I'm looking for. It's not carny core and it's not carny at all.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I was like, can we get an example of what this is like a jeopardy? Like what it looks like Bow bows. Will that be too obvious?

[Andrew Liszewski]

I think I can describe.

[David Pierce]

Oh, yeah.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Do you want to try to describe it?

[Marques Brownlee]

Frankly, I don't think anyone's going to guess this. But I will say for a clue, can I give a clue?

[David Pierce]

I would love a clue.

[Marques Brownlee]

A clue is I would say it's within a 15 minute drive of here.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

So let that sink in.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I want to know are we talking like, like commercial or like a house? Residential. Okay.

[David Imel]

And it's alliterative, which means it's like

[David Pierce]

I have a guess or something.

[David Imel]

Yeah. Like carnicore.

[David Pierce]

My guess is literally Maplewood Mansions.

[Ellis Hamburger]

One of the things is something else somewhere else in the northeast. So I'm pretty sure I'm wrong on that one.

[David Pierce]

Statin sweetness.

[David Imel]

But isn't that an island? Isn't that New York?

[David Pierce]

Yeah, but he said it's not really New York though.

[David Imel]

Can we, by the way, can we just agree that Staten island is just part of New Jersey?

[David Pierce]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[Marques Brownlee]

We don't have time for that.

[David Imel]

I went there for the first time and it was just New Jersey.

[David Pierce]

We. It's new. It's New York.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's literally you guys.

[David Pierce]

We will take the Statue of Liberty if you want to get well, because it's ours.

[David Imel]

No, no, no, no.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Give us it's ours.

[David Pierce]

Answers be at the end like usual. We'll be right back. Support for the show comes from Framer. A website should help your business grow, not slow it down. If updates to your dot com feel harder than they should, Framer is the shortcut you've been looking for. Framer is a website builder that can transform your dot com from a mere formality into a tool for growth. They've already helped thousands of businesses from early stage Startups to Fortune 500s build better websites faster. Framer is an enterprise grade no code website builder used by teams at companies like Perplexity and Miro to move faster with real time collaboration, a robust CMS with everything you need for great SEO and advanced analytics that include integrated A B testing, your designers and marketers are empowered to build and maximize your.com from day one changes to your Framer site go live to the web in seconds with one click without help from engineering. So whether you want to launch a new site or test a few Landing Pages or migrateyourful.com, framer has programs for startups, scale ups and large enterprises to make going from idea to live site as easy and fast as possible. So learn how to get more out of your.com from a framer specialist or get started building for free [e-mail] wave for 30% off a Framer Pro annual plan. That's Framer.com wave for 30% off Framer.com wave rules and restrictions may apply. Support for the show comes from Shopify the early days of starting a business are equal parts exciting and terrifying. It's a big risk, but it's one worth taking as long as you have the right tools. And if e commerce is part of your new business, here's a tip. Shopify Shopify is the commerce platform used by millions of businesses around the world. They say they can help you tackle all these important tasks in one place. From inventory to payments to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting the tool you need. Everything's all in one place, making your life easier and your business operations smoother. Let Shopify be your commerce expert. With world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond, you can get started with your own design studio. With hundreds of ready to use templates, Shopify helps you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand's style. Well. It's time to turn those what ifs into with Shopify today, you can sign up for your $1 per month trial and start selling today at shopify.com waveform. So go to shopify.com waveform that's shopify.com waveform. Support for the show comes from Anthropic, the team behind Claude. So when you're deep in something, figuring out how a new chip architecture works, or trying to understand why an update broke something you built last week, you need a thinking partner that can keep up. Claude works through those problems with you. Not a quick summary and move on. It digs in for developers. Claude code runs directly in your terminal, so handed a task, writing tests, refactoring a module, tracking down a bug, and it takes it from there without you walking it through Every single step, you can kick off multiple tasks in parallel and come back to finished work. If you want that level of capability without ever opening a terminal, that's where cowork comes in. Point it to a folder on your computer, connect your tools, and it handles the heavy lifting. Organizing files, synthesizing notes into reports, building out spreadsheets while you stay focused on the thinking that actually requires you. And one more thing worth knowing. Ads are coming to AI Anthropic committed to keeping Claude ad free. Your conversations won't be shaped by what someone else paid for. Try Claude for Free at Claude AI Waveform and see why problem solvers choose Claude as their thinking partner. All right, welcome back. We gotta talk about why your next smartphone. Well, according to some people, will cost more. I was gonna say might cost more, but will definitely cost more. And I'm saying it that way because we're mainly basing this on a Carl Pei tweet. He posted this really long tweet, which, I mean, okay, we could have kind of figured this out by context clues, but we know that memory is getting more and more expensive, and smartphones use memory. So maybe your next smartphone is more expensive. But Carl's tweet is much more definitively like, look, smartphones forever have relied on prices going down for these things. So every year you can expect a spec bump and the price doesn't have to go up. But this year, 2026, that's not true. Memory has gone up so much in price that it is impossible for your next phone to cost the same amount. Thanks. The same specs. And so, yes, if you haven't already heard memory shortage, like, this is. Have you tried to build a PC lately? Dude, it's really hard to get random memory. It's all super expensive.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Every tech trend just really screws people who want to build a cool PC. I feel like crypto is like, you want a gpu? Suck it.

[David Pierce]

I ordered everything.

[David Imel]

I ordered a little NAS enclosure thing because again, I was trying to do the photo photo stuff and just buying storage.

[David Pierce]

Yep.

[David Imel]

I'm like, holy crap. This is like four times as expensive as it was like, like six months ago.

[David Pierce]

It's all happening, in fact, in his tweet, he has. He's his numbers. And I credit to Carl, he's always super transparent about component pricing. That's like the one thing that I can say.

[David Imel]

The one thing that he is always

[David Pierce]

very transparent about that. So he says.

[Ellis Hamburger]

That we know of.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. He says brands face a simple choice. Raise prices by 30% or more. In some cases or downgrade specs.

[Ellis Hamburger]

He's saying it based on something that

[David Pierce]

cost $20 a year ago could exceed a hundred dollars by year end for top tier models.

[Ellis Hamburger]

He also thinks that entry to mid tier markets might shrink by 20% or more.

[David Pierce]

Logically, all of this makes perfect sense. But as we were like entering this into the like, we should talk about this today in the podcast. I remember we, we had this same discussion like 8 months ago around tariffs. Right. There was a sudden and sharp increase in prices among not just components, but like entire brands, like their whole like top to bottom supply chains. And so we assumed that there would be no choice but to raise prices of certain things. But to my memory, that didn't really happen the way we thought it would.

[David Imel]

It happened with some things, with a couple of things. We will talk about the Fuji X half soon.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Sure.

[David Imel]

The pricing of that device is notably the tariff device.

[David Pierce]

You remember last year we were thinking, I think the iPhone might get affected and they might have like a higher priced iPhone because of tariffs. Yeah.

[David Imel]

Because everyone on Twitter was like, the iPhone's gonna be $2,000 now.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. And that was not. Obviously didn't happen. Matter of fact, we got one of the best deals of an iPhone of all time last year.

[Ellis Hamburger]

That's true. So we also. Tariffs were also super confusing because every time we talked about it, by the time we released the episode it was different. So that was really hard to exam.

[David Pierce]

Who's not exempt.

[David Imel]

A lot of it comes down to market predictability. And I think the fact that the tariffs were changing every single day. A lot of companies, especially the ones that could afford it, just decided it's worth it to just not change pricing and just wait it out and see what happens. And if we need to in the future, maybe we will. Yeah. But we, we don't want to do this thing where we just are fluctuating our pricing like every two days. Yeah.

[David Pierce]

I think when you sell to consumers, like the number one thing you can do is be stable and predictable. But that's only easier as you get bigger of a company.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

If hopefully that sentence made sense. And so if you're smaller, like if you're nothing, pun, then you maybe deal with, you deal with more fluctuating supply chain pie. And things like this memory shortage are a giant blinking red light on your radar. Because how can you build in enough margin to accommodate this crazy change?

[David Imel]

It's a combination of that and your ability to sustain those changing market dynamics. Like Samsung, for example, notably does not make a ton of Money from its mobile division. That's not its main source of money. Actually probably most of its money comes from the RAM it makes for other people displays.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[David Imel]

So they're probably doing really well right now. And I don't think that Samsung will change its prices for at smartphones at all. So in a way Carl is kind of just like we're going to, we can't do this. And I think that there will be some larger companies that will be like, hey, don't speak for all of us. Yeah, come on, come on, girl.

[David Pierce]

I wanted to ask you guys, do you think that because we again we looked at this with tariffs and we saw kind of what was happening there. Do you think that we expect smartphone prices to go up because of RAM shortages or do we think that these huge companies are insulated enough that we again will. They'll just eat that cost and try to be as stable as possible and hopefully that goes goes down next year.

[David Imel]

I think they're going to eat it for one more year. And if the memory prices are still insane next year because the main reason the memory and storage prices are so insane right now is because of the data center explosion and like OpenAI buying up all of the RAM. So if that, you know, if that capacity changes next year, if either the companies that are building it build more fabs that can make more capacity or if OpenAI just doesn't need as much next year, the prices could go back down. So I think it's still kind of seen as a market fluctuation. It's just a bit longer term than the week long market fluctuations of the tariffs.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Sure, I have a. Well, I agree with David, even though he ends this whole post with we learned early on we couldn't win on spec sheets alone. Instead we focus on perfecting the user experience, proving how a phone looks and feels matter more than its raw numbers. Great quote after everyone hated the nothing phone three. But like I think Carl just taking the time to write this super long paragraph that could have just been RAM is expensive phone use ram. Do the math. Like yeah, is proof that the nothing phone is going to get more expensive this year and he's already making excuses for it.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I have another question though that Ellis and I were kind of talking about beforehand that might prove that I'm an idiot for the 8,000th time on this podcast. But we were talking about new MacBooks and I guess when I'm thinking of RAM, I'm immediately thinking of RAM sticks.

[David Pierce]

Right?

[Ellis Hamburger]

Like that we're all used to but when the memory is integrated onto something like Apple Silicon, is that going to be something that's going to, would be affected by something like this? And now I'm not exactly sure how RAM is working inside of phones if we're talking about it. So where is the question what RAM are we talking about? You know we saw it before because of like micro centers throwing it up which is the RAM sticks we all know. Is Apple Silicon going to be hit by this at all because it's all integrated into their chips?

[David Pierce]

That's a good question. I don't know the answer. I kind of assumed everything that uses memory, whether it's a RAM stick they put in a PC or if it's memory that that's in the Hasselblad camera or in Apple Silicon, it's all affected. Everything has to come. Yeah, everything that has memory. Cars like this happened with the chip shortage when people realized cars use a lot of chips because they all have computers in them. The chip shortage affects everything because everything has a chip and depends on how much your supply chain obviously and what percentage of your device is memory. Which is why we think cheaper smartphones, mid range smartphones are most affected because memory is an important and expensive component in that. But yeah, I do think it, I mean I don't know the answer but I do think it would affect Apple and Apple Silicon. But I don't, I don't think they're going to raise prices because it's not a big enough component.

[David Imel]

Yeah, I don't think so either.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Yeah, I think I see it both sides. Well, I think one thing that we failed to consider in our earlier conversation Andrew is that Apple probably pre negotiated their RAM prices for. I don't know when their contract with the three big suppliers ends but I would have a feeling that they're locked in through some.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[Andrew Liszewski]

To a price through some period of time. The other reason, the other thing that you know, we didn't really discuss was that I guess maybe we sort of touched on a little bit is that Apple has always charged this much for ram. Like, like now we're sort of like

[David Imel]

in an area where insane already, right?

[Andrew Liszewski]

It's like, it's like I was looking it up like now like sticks of RAM cost about as much as the actual RAM upgrades for Apple.

[David Pierce]

Or dude, like we try doubling the RAM in a MacBook it's like that'll cost you another Mac $800.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Going from 64 to 128 gigs of RAM on a MacBook Pro is an extra $800 you know, so it's crazy. So maybe they can just be like,

[David Pierce]

they built it in.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Yeah, they, they priced it, they priced

[David Imel]

it in the market price sit in.

[Andrew Liszewski]

You know, on the other hand, everything is getting more expensive.

[Ellis Hamburger]

So.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[Andrew Liszewski]

So I don't know.

[David Imel]

I feel like Apple probably already purchased this capacity ahead of time and it probably won't affect them for the short term. I just don't know how long that lasts.

[Andrew Liszewski]

I believe it was Lenovo that said publicly that their price contract thing ends at the end of 2026. And you know, Apple's worth a few Lenovo's. So like maybe their contract goes.

[David Pierce]

I was trying to think of a company that I think might be affected. That's not app. Motorola came to mind because they sell a lot of 212 $300 phones. They're a Motorola, they're a Lenovo company. They're like small. They don't have a ton of, to my knowledge, like super premium stuff like balancing it out where they can eat that charge on the smaller price things and they'll be okay. So I kind of feel like Motorola phones could be more expensive than their previous generations this year, potentially. Yeah, that's a total guess for me.

[David Imel]

Well, speaking of these things being a lot more expensive and now a lot cheaper, there's a camera we talk, we've talked about a few times called the Fujifilm X Half. This camera is the camera that was made to be bad. It's Fujifilm's response to the Gen Z and Gen Alpha kids buying digicams which are like early 2000s point and shoot cameras. And Fujifilm thought we really need to get in on that, that so they made this camera called the X Half. It's got a 1 inch sensor. It intentionally adds light leaks and all this.

[Ellis Hamburger]

You must have not been here when we brought it in.

[David Imel]

Yeah, Adam had it.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's such an interesting camera.

[David Imel]

It's an awesome camera.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It is both awesome and terrible at the same time.

[David Imel]

It's awesome.

[David Pierce]

It's the opposite of what I look for on cameras.

[Andrew Liszewski]

It has a portrait viewfinder. Like the, the viewfinder on the back is portrait by default.

[David Imel]

Because half frame cameras, xhash half always were portrait because they just shrink the film. The film gate half as wide so they become portrait.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It was like also plastic, but it looked really nice. And it had this like the pictures weren't great, but it had this really cool like secondary LCD screen where if you're doing film simulations, it would swipe. It would look like the roll of film was in it okay, yeah.

[David Imel]

This camera feels like the R D and like design people. All of the money went to that. Because the app is also very good. When you transfer the photos to the phone, you can see the negatives and then they develop and then they turn into positives.

[David Pierce]

This is the type of product where you're just like, hey, this is fun. Yeah, it's not going to be the best quality thing, but you're going to have the most fun.

[David Imel]

Absolutely.

[Ellis Hamburger]

And then it's like, so, yeah, give me 800, just have fun. You're like, I ain't trying to have that much fun.

[David Imel]

This is the problem. Launched 850. I remember when I did the briefing for this camera, it was like the day after the tariffs got announced and they wouldn't say the price and we were like, so are you guys going to be a affected by the terrorists? And they were like, ah, yeah. And then it launched at $850, which is just.

[David Pierce]

$850. Yeah.

[David Imel]

It's just crazy, man. It's so expensive. Really cool camera, really fun, really cute. But $850. So now Adorama is selling the Fujifilm XT5, which is their flagship prosumer camera. That is not the medium format GFX cameras. If you buy the kit that comes with the X T5 plus the lens, you get an X half for free, which is funny. The XF also on B and H, everyone thought this was just a Black Friday deal, but they never lower, like put the price back up.

[David Pierce]

They never stopped.

[David Imel]

The XF, you can now buy for $650 on B&H. It still says $200 off. It's clearly not the MSRP yet, but everyone's still selling it for that. The XT5. It makes sense that they're trying to move units of that because that came out quite a while ago. I think it was like, like 2022 or something. And there are rumors that the XT6 is going to come out in September. So it's clear a lot of these retailers are clearly just trying to move those units. But it's just very funny that they are. They are giving away a 650 used to be $850 camera with it.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It kind of makes sense because it's like move this. But also like these cameras are quite a bit different. The X half is like a more fun like toss in your pocket this. The XT5 obviously is pretty serious camera. It would be a fun thing to have as a side.

[David Imel]

Yeah, totally.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's just so funny. It's like totally buy a camera, get a mini camera with it for free. It doesn't sell for free.

[David Imel]

Yeah, because it's not selling. So. Yeah, I mean, again, it's just like they need to move units because the XC6 is going to come out soon. So that's really the reason.

[David Pierce]

But just getting them out of the store, out of the inventory, just like we made a bunch, we need to get rid of these. So you seem like the person who would want it. And you're buying this camera, so have this one too.

[David Imel]

I'm curious if sort of the margins or the tariffs like became less of a problem for them. And so now their margins on the X half are big enough that they can actually give these away for a relatively cheap place. Like I wonder what Adorama buys these from Fujifilm for.

[David Pierce]

Right?

[David Imel]

It's probably like 200 bucks would be my guess, so.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Wow.

[David Imel]

Yeah, yeah, that's just. That was just a pretty funny story that we saw. Okay, I just wanted to bring this up very quickly. We don't have to hang on it too much. Um, but there was this news that this, this happened this week. Grok, notably the anti censored AI, the

[David Pierce]

LLM that's built into X. Yeah, the

[David Imel]

LLM is built into X. Elon Musk's LLM. You can go on Twitter and you can say at grok, do this. And then recently they, they release editing and photo manipulation through like the comments. So if you can upload a photo to a tweet and you can say at grock, change it in this way when you have a specifically noted as like uncensored LLM, clearly people are going to start doing heinous things with it,

[Ellis Hamburger]

especially on that platform.

[David Pierce]

Your favorite thing.

[David Imel]

This is like sort of why they made Section 230. But they never expected it to get this insane. Notably, people started doing things with it that you would expect people to start doing things with, including really bad things. And because of that, you know, there's all these fake nudes that are being made of a lot of people. And at this point the UK and the EU are taking some action. They are forcing X to retain documents related to GROK until the end of the year so that they can review them. The UK also just passed a law criminalizing non consensual intimate deepfakes in response. And Twitter responded to this by making the image manipulation feature a X premium feature.

[Ellis Hamburger]

The first thing they did was desktop. That GROK as a Twitter profile. You could go to it and click the media tab and like if you go to that on like one of yours, you would just see all the photos it's posted. But if you were going to Grok and clicking the Media tab, it was just a bunch of random people being put in place, like swimsuits that without their consent and really, really creepy stuff. And then they just nuked the media file on Grok at first to just like make it not so obvious.

[David Imel]

And then they made it an X Premium feature as if that was going to stop people. Except if you have the dedicated Grok app on your phone, you don't even need Premium to use this feature anyway. It was, it was a whole thing. The Senate did just pass a bill in the US that would allow people with non consensual de fix to sue for civil dam. So there's the.

[David Pierce]

To sue the. To suit a person.

[David Imel]

I think it's the person who asked Grok to create the image.

[David Pierce]

Wow.

[David Imel]

Yeah. So there's probably a lot of stuff that's going to happen from this. I just wanted to say publicly that Sundar Pichai and Tim Cook should have pulled this from their app store. As soon as this started happening.

[David Pierce]

I saw that because I saw people saying, oh, that. But then also all the other apps can do that. They just aren't a meme of publicly doing it.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Can they do it with like a totally new image of someone in a bikini? Can you upload pictures of somebody and get them to change that? Gemini and that stuff can do it.

[David Pierce]

You can upload features, you can upload it.

[David Imel]

But I feel like there's a lot of limitations on what you can do with the photo editing through Gemini.

[David Pierce]

Most likely they're probably better than what's happening with Grok. I think that was the argument I saw is like, oh, you can do this with these other apps and they're not banned, but, but probably not as easily and probably takes way more effort, probably way more effort, way more prompting. And here's Grok just displaying them all on the Media tab. And it's like very public and it's a meme at the time, I mean,

[David Imel]

and it was just in the comments.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, it was everywhere. So it's like that's the difference. And so yeah, that's what I saw.

[David Imel]

It's just, I just feel like Google and Apple should have pulled this from their app store until that they made some serious changes, but they didn't because of politics, because now we live under techno feudalism. So just needed to note that because I felt like we had to talk

[Ellis Hamburger]

about it, it was a great timing for Razer to announce that they're going to use Grok for their stupid little hologram thing.

[David Pierce]

I'm testing the Tesla Model Y right now and every time I open the menu there's this big Grok icon and I'm like, why is this built into the car? Yeah. What are you doing? Like, you. I. I have to use it in the car. Like, it's not. I get that. There's like Spotify built in, there's maps built in. There's a Grok button. I haven't pressed it.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I guess Gemini's not in Android Auto yet, right? So.

[David Imel]

No, they just announced. Yeah, they brought it to recently.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I thought I just saw someone saying it's not fully in there yet.

[David Imel]

And they're expecting it got announced a couple months ago. Yeah. I've seen some videos of people using Grok in the car, talking to it, Talking to it. It can be pretty weird.

[David Pierce]

It's. Yeah, it's insane. It's actually right up Razor's alley. I'm not shocked they did that at all.

[David Imel]

I'm not shocked. I'm just disappointed. I'm disappointed because, you know, gamers can't afford this. But they also already have the whole, like, there's already the whole.

[David Pierce]

Exactly.

[David Imel]

Sorry, you can't afford this. I'm sorry. But they have the whole Persona of being like the creepy sort of incel thing, and Razer is just kind of like leaning into that, which I don't love. I don't like it.

[David Pierce]

I mean, that one product that we talked about it like last week. Yeah, the CES thing, that's exactly what we're a companion.

[Andrew Liszewski]

I think they're white labeling project. Ava.

[David Pierce]

I, I.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Late at night, I didn't want to hit the slack because I was kind of embarrassed about, like, why are you thinking about this? But I found, I found all of these, these, like, companies. Like, one of them is called AI Hollow Box.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Like, there are all these products that look so similar to the laser one.

[David Imel]

I would not be surprised at all.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Somebody in the comments was like, it is kind of like a hologram. It just sucks really bad, which I don't know what that means.

[David Imel]

But we were saying it was using the translucent glass, like LEDs, right? Yeah. Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

By the way, Ellis, just schedule send next time, then you can still get it.

[David Pierce]

Just to really freak us out. Yeah, that was okay.

[David Imel]

Yeah. Anyway, Tim Cook, Sundar, please pull X from your app stores. Let's do another trivia that's hopefully, hopefully about something A little less. Less depressing.

[David Pierce]

I hope it's a tech question.

[David Imel]

Is that crazy? It's probably going to be about like cucumbers or something. I don't know. I don't know.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Got an article, actually that would have worked well last week when we talked about pickle.

[David Imel]

Wait, did we even do any pickle questions last week, by the way? Bread and butter.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Best pickle.

[David Imel]

Best pickle.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Bread and butter. Slice.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Best pickle. Bread and butter. Best pickle.

[David Imel]

Best pickle.

[Ellis Hamburger]

That might be your worst pickles.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Insane.

[David Imel]

They're so good.

[Ellis Hamburger]

They're the worst.

[David Imel]

Bread and butter.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Pickles. Yeah, Bread and butter. I you, Andrew.

[Ellis Hamburger]

They're so.

[David Imel]

It's a type of vinegar they put in it that's like sweet.

[Andrew Liszewski]

No, it's just. It's just sugar pickle.

[David Imel]

That's right.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Oh, candy pickle.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Yeah, candy pickle.

[David Imel]

Like when I was growing up, I ate a lot of sugar.

[Marques Brownlee]

So we've been talking about a lot of cameras this week and I've been going down memory lane for a project we're working on with the studio. I was thinking about the granddaddy of all YouTube cameras. We all know it. We all love it.

[David Imel]

Canada2i the.

[Marques Brownlee]

That is the granddaughter of the granddaddy.

[David Pierce]

I don't know.

[Marques Brownlee]

It's a metaphor. We all know the 2007 flip video ultra. We know it, we love it.

[David Pierce]

It's great.

[Marques Brownlee]

And I'm just thinking about it and it's simple interface with few buttons, minimal Menus built in USB. It captured 13 of the camcorder market and was the best selling camcorder on Amazon at the time.

[David Imel]

So crazy.

[Marques Brownlee]

And it was cool because you could publish directly to YouTube or AOL video, which is definitely still around. And my question for you is, what was the MSRP for the 1 gigabyte version of the 2007 Flip Video Ultra?

[David Imel]

1 gigabyte.

[Marques Brownlee]

There was 1 gigabyte and 2 gigabytes.

[David Imel]

Didn't the guy that started Flip Video also start like a food chain? Like a popular food chain?

[David Pierce]

Probably. Whatever he did, it'll never live up to. It'll never emerge from the shadow of the flip camera. The flip camera is iconic to me.

[David Imel]

It is so iconic.

[David Pierce]

That being said, I do not remember the price.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I was gonna say I'm going off of a flash Dr. I bought my senior year of high

[David Pierce]

school, which would have been 2007 a one gig.

[Ellis Hamburger]

A one gig flash drive.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, but that's not cheap monitor. It's going to have.

[David Imel]

Dude, I bought a one gig flash drive in middle school and they accidentally at Staples gave me the eight gig and I was like, yeah, you're rich. I was the coolest kid at school, dude. Everyone was jealous of my eight gigs. It was crazy.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, well, I remember the camera, but I will have to do some digging to try to remember the price is

[David Imel]

the prices right rules.

[Marques Brownlee]

Yeah, price is right closest without going over.

[David Pierce]

Okay, perfect. All right, that'll be at the end. We'll be right back. Yo, Harvey, Zoe, group selfie. Ooh, nice. New iPhone 17.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Drew, let's do a triangle formation. I'm in front with a center stage front camera.

[David Pierce]

Everyone fits in the shot.

[Ellis Hamburger]

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[David Imel]

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[David Pierce]

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[David Imel]

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[Andrew Liszewski]

Focus, people.

[David Pierce]

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[Ellis Hamburger]

Yes way. No way.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Yes way. Guys, switch to T mobile and get iPhone 17 on us. And right now we'll pay off your old phone up to 800 bucks.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I'm grabbing my phone and switching to

[Andrew Liszewski]

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[David Imel]

Get back, Harvey.

[Andrew Liszewski]

We're taking a.

[David Pierce]

Let's go again, y'. All.

[Andrew Liszewski]

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[David Pierce]

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[Andrew Liszewski]

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[David Pierce]

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[Ellis Hamburger]

Well, I'm letting go of the worry

[David Pierce]

that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class.

[Marques Brownlee]

I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast.

[David Pierce]

And breathe. Oh, sorry.

[Marques Brownlee]

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[David Pierce]

the discount they gave me on my first order.

[Marques Brownlee]

Oh, sorry. Namaste.

[David Pierce]

Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.

[Andrew Liszewski]

1-800-contacts.

[Marques Brownlee]

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[David Pierce]

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[David Pierce]

Shop Vertuo up [e-mail]. all right, welcome back. I actually have two stories that I would like to explain to Andrew and David in tech terms. We've had this as a sort of a recurring segment where we bring in something from totally outside the tech world, but in a passion of ours that we try to get you to feel the passion for by using tech analogies for them. I have two. I think I've got my analogies I'm gonna try. All right. All right.

[David Imel]

I'm excited.

[David Pierce]

So the first one, the first bit of news is the Corvette ZR1X. The C8ZR1X just became the quickest American production car of all time and actually the quickest car ever made with an engine in it. It is a 1.7 second zero to 60 and an 8.6 second quarter mile. It's a $220,000 Corvette. It's obviously a pretty crazy car in the first place, but the outlier in performance that this car represents is totally insane. This C8 platform has been building for a while, while really, really insane stuff. But the numbers, the straight line performance that this car can pull off is equivalent to. It would be easy to say like, only like million dollar cars, but honestly, most million dollar cars are not this fast. This would be like 3 to 5 to $10 million. Cars are occasionally this fast. Sometimes. The only other car that we've tested that's this fast, Andrew, is the RIMAC Nevera. Okay, the RIMAC Nevera is several million dollars. It's pure electric quad motor, 1800 horsepower, all wheel drive. This is a Corvette that someone's just gonna buy someday. So I was trying to help explain this in tech terms and the best I can think of because I think the story is how much of an outlier it is for performance per dollar. This would be like if the OnePlus 15 had also by far the best camera the Android world has ever seen and was also so $550.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Wait, I like this, but I think I can do you one better. Marques.

[David Pierce]

I'm down for that.

[David Imel]

The OnePlus 4.

[Andrew Liszewski]

And I just want to let everyone know I like Corvettes. This is not me knocking on Corvettes. But I think the one thing that analogy leaves out is that historically for performance cars specifically, not for all cars, but for performance cars specifically, Corvettes are the budget option.

[David Pierce]

OnePlus.

[Andrew Liszewski]

I guess I don't really think of OnePlus as a budget budget option.

[David Pierce]

The history of OnePlus to me has Been like they have been somehow able to in their prime anyway. Like OnePlus 7 Days.

[David Imel]

OnePlus 1.

[David Pierce]

They were the ones that were giving you all of the specs somehow for cheaper than the competition.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah, Flagship kills.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, the flagship was Samsung.

[Andrew Liszewski]

To me, a Corvette that beats out everything. Also Corvettes historically compared to other performance cars made of plastic. And so to me this is the equivalent of someone puts out a chromebook that costs $4,500 and is the fastest computer you could buy.

[David Imel]

But it can't do anything.

[Andrew Liszewski]

No, it can do everything.

[David Imel]

But it's a Chromebook.

[Andrew Liszewski]

But it's a Chromebook.

[David Pierce]

I think I like my analogy because it hammers home two impossible things. Which is one. It's just insane to imagine the OnePlus 15 which kind of has a nerfed camera also like, like actually think about it. What if it had the best camera you've ever seen by far. Like the iPhone's to shame. The Samsung's to shame. The Xiaomi's are to shame. This is unbelievable. Camera actually picture that $800 was. And then it's also $550. That'd be crazy. It would just not make any. How does it have all of this stuff? How is it also the fastest and the best battery? How does it have all this performance? And it's undercutting all of like by far all the flagships. It's half the price of cars like. Like this or phones like this. Isn't that insane?

[Ellis Hamburger]

We don't have a direct comparison. We have to make up a thing. You had to put two exemptions on an existing product only car.

[David Pierce]

Literally the only other car that I've ever seen run an 8 1/2 second quarter mile from the factory is a $3 million Rimac Nevera. It's the only other car I've ever seen do this. Picture the most expensive. You've heard of Bugattis, right? Like Bugatti chiron. It's a three, four five million dollars car. Will run a nine two and a two and a half second zero to 60. That's bat fast. This is a full half second fast. It's incomprehensibly faster.

[David Imel]

It's like M1.

[David Pierce]

It doesn't make any sense.

[David Imel]

Like the M1 chip.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, actually, yeah. It's kind of like if the M1 chip was also a fraction of the price of what it actually costs.

[David Imel]

And they kind of were when they first launched.

[Andrew Liszewski]

But they came out in a device made of plastic too.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. Because Apple's known as premium it would be like if M1 in a Chromebook. Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

See?

[David Imel]

Oh yeah.

[David Pierce]

You know, M1, it would be silly, it would be ridiculous. But it's happening and it's the biggest story on the car.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Is there a reason they're able to accomplish this? Clearly every company in the entire world has wanted to be the really the best. That's also cheap.

[David Pierce]

That's a great question.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Like hotcakes or. What are the red flags we see going on right now?

[David Pierce]

Fair enough. The C8 Corvette, this platform, this newest generation of the Corvette, they have all a bunch of different versions of it that they've been building up to over the years. So there is the base C8, it's mid engine engine. It was very popular. It was really good price for performance. And then they started doing more and more higher end powertrains and we kind of expected them to walk up this ladder and they got more and more impressive. We had the E Ray here. I don't know if you remember that, that blue Corvette. Yeah, it was a hybrid. That's kind of in the same powertrain as the Hybrid 911 Turbo S or the Hybrid Ferrari 296 for example. Cars that are similarly fast. But it was always cheaper because it's gm, they just, they make. What else would GM make? Cadillacs, Escalades, the Lyriq, they make like regular cars. And they're also making this world beater supercar. So they just kept walking it up more and more. Now they have this massive engine making a thousand horsepower with the biggest turbos ever in a production car. And also a front axle, 186 horsepower, electric motor, all wheel drive, lightweight, two door mid engine supercar. It's just in insane. And the red flags are only really that. I don't know if there are any red flags to be honest. The red flag is that this is going to be on the streets.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah, agree.

[David Pierce]

This is insane.

[David Imel]

Yeah. You said one point.

[David Pierce]

What? 1.7 seconds, 0 to 60.

[David Imel]

Is that the fastest car ever?

[David Pierce]

It launches harder than the rimac. The hardest. I mean a model three performance is. I think when you bought your model S plaid, the plaid.

[David Imel]

That was probably the fastest car I've ever driven.

[David Pierce]

Okay. So that would do a absolute best case scenario. Drag strip, 2.00 seconds, 0 to 60. Which is unbelievable. That car was already an anomaly for straight line acceleration. Yeah, this is 40% harder launching than that. That doesn't make any sense.

[David Imel]

Yeah, that's crazy.

[David Pierce]

And again, it accelerates even faster. It traps a higher speed through the quarter mile it does in 8 1/2 seconds. It's crazy. So, yeah, it's insane.

[Andrew Liszewski]

But if you buy it, it's plastic. I don't want to say it's a cheap car.

[David Pierce]

Right?

[Andrew Liszewski]

Like it. It's a Corvette. It's still a nice car.

[David Pierce]

It's a nice car.

[Andrew Liszewski]

But I think, think anything else you would buy in that performance category would either be super bare bones, like no door handles, no ac, like race car status, or it would be the Bugatti. Everything feels like it's made of diamonds. Quality. So that's why I like the Chromebook. It's like you're not going to get the fit and finish of its competitors.

[David Pierce]

People buying cars with this much performance usually also want the look at Me car. Yeah. And you wouldn't buy a. A Look at me Chromebook, but you can. But you. You could. They.

[Ellis Hamburger]

They got a couple Chromebook fans real mad right now.

[David Pierce]

I'm just.

[David Imel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Can we throw?

[David Pierce]

That's the first one.

[Ellis Hamburger]

One other one out there?

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Um. Oh, yeah. The second one, I guess. Cuz we kind of started this discussion, but it's another basketball one.

[David Pierce]

Mm.

[Ellis Hamburger]

We had a lot of fun with the Luca trade because that was a huge luca.

[David Imel]

I know that guy.

[Ellis Hamburger]

This is the Trey Young trade because it seems quite a bit different than the Luca trade and I would to like to understand it.

[David Pierce]

Okay.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Better.

[David Pierce]

Ellis, you might have to help me with this one.

[David Imel]

In tech terms, the LUCA one was the guy who was the best and they traded him for nothing.

[David Pierce]

Right.

[David Imel]

That's what happened.

[Ellis Hamburger]

They traded him for like someone who was really good, but as like horrible knees and is old. Right.

[David Pierce]

Who literally just had a season ending injury like last week. Okay. This trade. Yeah. The news is that a player named Trey Young who is on the Atlanta Hawks, he's their point guard for a. A long time. Since he was drafted. Right. To the Hawks.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

Or traded to the Hawks on draft night.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[David Pierce]

He's been on that team for a long time. He's been their point guard.

[Andrew Liszewski]

He the face of the team.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

He was traded for CJ McCollum and Corey Crispert. Two people, two for one.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Now before I kind of mentioned something about CJ because I thought he was really good, but he is good.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Okay.

[Andrew Liszewski]

But I wouldn't.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I'm rolling, I'm rolling this on the fact that I have a friend who apparently went to college with him and thought he was really cool.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

And I've heard a lot about him as somebody. Someone who's probably under the level of NBA talent that I should know.

[David Pierce]

That's a great observation. You probably would not have heard of CJ McCollum had it not been for this friend that we share.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Shout out.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Grover might be listening to this.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. So Trae Young on a middling Eastern Conference team, but he's been the face of the franchise for a while. Gets traded to the Wizards are the worst team in the East. Right. Or third worst or something. Bottom feeder.

[Ellis Hamburger]

They're like just over the 6th.

[David Imel]

Isn't that the team that. That Michael Jordan was on?

[David Pierce]

No. Yeah. That's.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Why do you know that that's really actually true.

[David Pierce]

Yes. That is a team that Michael Jordan was once on.

[Andrew Liszewski]

The pace are 12 wins behind the Wizards right now.

[David Pierce]

Okay, so what you basically have to understand is Trae Young was once thought of as maybe kind of like a second coming of Steph Curry. Like, has a lot of really good qualities on offense. Offense. And ran a franchise and was, you know, big stats guy.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Trey, he was so good that Knicks fans absolutely hate him.

[David Pierce]

That's a great point. Yeah, he was.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Do you know the video? The Bing Bong video?

[David Imel]

Bing Bong.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah. Yeah. And then, like, right after they go like, f. Trey Young. F Trey Young.

[Andrew Liszewski]

That was something that happened, like, four years ago that Knicks fans.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[David Imel]

Still like the Bing bong.

[David Pierce]

So this guy was kind of a big bad guy in the east. And he. He, yeah. Just abruptly got traded this season to one of the worst teams for CJ McCollum, who you probably haven't heard of, and Corey Crispert, who I'm sure is a nice guy, but that doesn't seem like a very even trade.

[David Imel]

The gene editing guy.

[David Pierce]

Crispr. Wow.

[Ellis Hamburger]

That's. I was gonna say. Is that. Is that the architectural type that we're trying to figure out?

[David Pierce]

I love doing these words. Write the most random anecdotes. Yeah. So that's. That's a pretty. Now, in tech terms, this is. This is hard to. To explain, to fully appreciate, but it would be like.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Well, so here I think that one important detail is that no one denies that Trae Young is really good at basketball.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Alex does.

[David Pierce]

But he's a Knicks fan. Don't worry about him.

[Andrew Liszewski]

I have so much to say right there. No one denies that he's really good at basketball, but people constantly put into question whether he was the right flavor of good at basketball to take the Atlanta Hawks to where they needed to be. And so I'm trying to think if there's, like, an executive that no one Doubted the talent and prowess of. But were like, this just isn't the right fit.

[David Pierce]

It would be like Apple trading Tim Cook.

[David Imel]

Well, they are doing that for, For. Oh, wait, wait. For the, the guy. The liquid glass guy. They made the liquid glass guy that went to Meta. Meta where they did make a trade. They traded him to Meta.

[David Pierce]

It would be like trading him for like the Humane CEO.

[Ellis Hamburger]

HP already did that.

[David Pierce]

And a vending machine.

[David Imel]

Wait, okay, so let's see, let's see. Because they traded the liquid glass guy to Meta, Right? So in this case, Meta is the wizard.

[David Pierce]

The Wizards are really bad.

[Andrew Liszewski]

The Wizards not only are really bad, but are never good.

[David Imel]

Meta's really bad and has never been good too.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, but they're a competitor. They're a multi billion, billion dollar. I'm saying, I'm thinking, when I say humane, I'm trying to think of like you would never make this trade type of moves, you know, but technically the same space.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Like you, you bought a OnePlus 15 expecting it to be the perfect camera for every or perfect phone for everything. And then you started taking pictures and after a while you're like, this just isn't the phone for me. I'm going to give it to my, my friend who's going to give me A Galaxy S22 Pro and CMF Buds or something like that.

[David Pierce]

I could see CJ McCullum being a CMF Phone 2 Pro.

[Ellis Hamburger]

That's actually brand new sentence.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Like crispy Cobert is the Buds cheap.

[David Pierce]

But Cory Crisper is like the S and Buds. Yeah. Like an accessory. Yeah. Yeah.

[David Imel]

You're trading the OnePlus 15.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. Yeah.

[David Imel]

That's an awful deal.

[Ellis Hamburger]

And so I guess you're hoping that those two just kind of finish out the season you don't care about and then you go big game hunting and get a real.

[David Imel]

Yeah, because the CMF Phone 2 Pro will just break in half.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah. So you're just hoping it lasts.

[David Pierce]

That's why you're going to have to

[David Imel]

get a new one.

[David Pierce]

Yeah. Damn, that might track.

[David Imel]

That sounds good.

[Andrew Liszewski]

I don't know. Is Atlanta going to try and tank the rest of this season? Like, is that part of the plan?

[David Pierce]

Do they keep making trades till the deadline and then we decide if they tank?

[Andrew Liszewski]

Like.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, I don't know if there's a tech equivalent of tanking because nobody wants to get the. Nobody actively seeks the worst tech.

[Andrew Liszewski]

There is like a form of trying to get the worst tech, which is like being the guy who like orders the humane pin, the 1x robot, you know, like.

[David Pierce]

But those people think they're getting the best tech.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Unfortunately, that's being delusional.

[David Pierce]

Like tanking is actively, you know. Are you familiar? You know, I know. So you throw them on purpose the whole season. If a team is bad enough at the end of the season, they have a better chance of a really good draft pick to get a good player for next season. Do you get higher draft pick? Hilarious. If you do worse.

[Andrew Liszewski]

You wanna hear something really funny?

[David Pierce]

Essential.

[Andrew Liszewski]

In Europe, sports teams are like super capitalist. Like, if you do really well, you get more. And if you have a really bad season, you can sometimes get relegated. Have to be like in a worse.

[David Imel]

Which is why the soccer teams, it's like, it's always the same teams, they

[David Pierce]

never, they're always trying to be the best.

[Andrew Liszewski]

In the United States United, where we do sports communism, where if you get a, if you just suck, you get to draft players first the next season and it helps keep everyone kind of competitive. Competitive. The idea of tanking is being like, our team is really bad. We're. If we try our hardest, we will do really bad. So let's not try it all and make sure we're the last place team and have the best odds of getting a really great draft pick.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Quick question. In the NBA, do you guys make slogans like for when a team's really bad? Like, I just pulled up a thread of NHL slogans where it was like, fall for hall because the number one pick was like, yeah, hey, hey, hey, hey.

[David Pierce]

Here we go.

[David Imel]

Is someone's name Trust?

[David Pierce]

Because the idea is if you're a middling team, then you're like not good enough to like win playoff series, but you're not bad enough to get a good pick. So you get like a not that great draft pick. And then you're stuck in the middle because it doesn't change anything. So if you're in the middle, you just start to just get worse. Just like stop trying. Sit your best players, tank, get to the bottom, then you'll get a good drive.

[David Imel]

Are there penalties for doing that intentionally?

[David Pierce]

Weak ones? Not really.

[David Imel]

Because then at the end of the, then at the end of the season, all the bad teams are just like, oh, I don't know what a basketball is.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, exactly. Fighting for the worst product.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Wait, there is a tech version of tanking? I totally just realized it. It's when you're meta or Google or Amazon and you lay off like 10, 15,000 people at one time to make

[David Imel]

your stock price go so that you

[Andrew Liszewski]

can report a Bunch of losses for that year on your taxes. Be like, oh, we're the worst.

[Marques Brownlee]

Worst.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Andrew Liszewski]

And then your shareholder inflate the stock price. That's tech tanking.

[David Pierce]

There is tanking.

[David Imel]

That's tanking.

[David Pierce]

That's wild. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I don't know if we got a perfect analogy for that one, but

[Ellis Hamburger]

I liked my OnePlus One.

[David Pierce]

Yeah, the OnePlus One feels a good phone. CJ McCollum feels like a CMF Phone 2 Pro. Most people have not heard of that phone or that player. Yeah, but they're like, that's why they work decent and like a good company.

[David Imel]

You should send him one and see what he says.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I hope C. CJ1 doesn't listen to this podcast. And two isn't like, a huge Android fan and is gonna feel so bad.

[David Imel]

To be clear, we like that phone.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah, it was a nice phone.

[David Pierce]

I like C.J. mcCollum. It won an award. Hopefully now, by the end of the segment, everyone here can appreciate how ridiculous the ZR1X is and how crazy the Trey Young trade was. Now, let's do trivia.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Bang, bong your life.

[Andrew Liszewski]

The lyrics to the trivia music is bing, bong.

[David Imel]

The witch is dead.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Yeah.

[David Pierce]

Bing, bing, ba bong, bong. I miss crazy frog.

[Ellis Hamburger]

What's going on?

[Andrew Liszewski]

Inspired by listener Sam.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Thank you.

[David Imel]

Thanks, Sam.

[Andrew Liszewski]

What is the name of the iconic New Jersey architectural style that is alliterative? And the first word is a city. City in North Jersey.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I forgot. Your laptop has the grass skin on it.

[David Imel]

You didn't know what that feeling was. You never felt anything like that before.

[Ellis Hamburger]

North Jersey, you said. And it's based on a city around here.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know North Jersey geography well enough to say it's around here. I know it's near here. I know it's like, can we get

[Ellis Hamburger]

one point for each? Because none of us are getting this one point per word correct.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Which means, I'm just guessing a city,

[Andrew Liszewski]

and we might as well throw a second word in there, flip them and read.

[David Pierce]

I wrote Hoboken Hazards.

[Andrew Liszewski]

That's hilarious.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Neither of those were correct.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I wrote Newark Nail.

[Andrew Liszewski]

That is also nail.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I don't know. He said, write another one.

[David Imel]

I wrote Newark New.

[Andrew Liszewski]

It's also wrong, but I like that it sounds like a type of face.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[Andrew Liszewski]

The correct answer was the Bayonne box. Oh, the Bayonne box.

[Ellis Hamburger]

That sounds like a. Like an early bird special. Yo. I got the.

[David Pierce]

That's cool.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I got the munchy meal that actually makes.

[David Imel]

Yeah, like the Jack in the box sense.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I'm pretty sure all of Bayonne.

[David Imel]

How do you spell Bayonne?

[Ellis Hamburger]

B, A, Y, O, N, N, E.

[David Imel]

Why the Bayonne box can't be phased out. Nice.

[Marques Brownlee]

It's a good article, actually.

[David Imel]

Really?

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[David Imel]

All right, well, I don't own one because I'll never own a home. Let's move on. What's the next one?

[Marques Brownlee]

Question number two is about our beloved 2007 camera, the Flip Video Ultra. And my question for you is Price is Right rules. What was the original MSRP for the camera?

[Ellis Hamburger]

What was the resolution on that bad boy?

[Marques Brownlee]

720p.

[Ellis Hamburger]

That's what I was feel like this

[David Pierce]

would make a cool noise.

[David Imel]

I could hear that being like a wolf back song or something.

[David Pierce]

Decent. You already have your gu.

[Ellis Hamburger]

There is a Can I see that? There is a musical instrument that's like.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Do you know what it's called?

[David Pierce]

Scraper.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's. They use one in rusted root semi. On my way.

[Andrew Liszewski]

I would give someone a trivia point if they knew what that was called.

[David Pierce]

I. I can picture it. I just don't know the name.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Make the first sound.

[David Imel]

Washboard.

[Andrew Liszewski]

A washboard is an example, but it wasn't what I was thinking.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Oh, that's a great.

[David Pierce]

I wish I knew.

[Andrew Liszewski]

I'm talking about the one that's typically shaped like a fish.

[David Pierce]

It's made of.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Yeah, it's like fishboard. Fish looking.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Actually, wait. The name I had in my head is wrong. I'm thinking of it.

[David Imel]

So do I get the point for washboard?

[Ellis Hamburger]

Can I name a song that has it in it?

[David Pierce]

No, I just name something about it and get a point.

[Marques Brownlee]

Oh, it is shaped like a fish.

[David Imel]

No, I had it right.

[David Pierce]

I was right.

[Andrew Liszewski]

I was.

[David Imel]

What is it? What is it called?

[Andrew Liszewski]

It's called a gyro.

[David Imel]

Like a. Like a Greek sandwich.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Like a gyro.

[David Pierce]

Let's see if anyone got the price right of this one gig Flip Cam.

[Marques Brownlee]

All right, one gig.

[David Pierce]

What do you got?

[Ellis Hamburger]

Oh, I went really expensive. Whoopsie.

[Marques Brownlee]

David's got $80.

[David Imel]

I've got 79.99 specifically.

[Marques Brownlee]

Sorry.

[David Imel]

Just in case that's the real price.

[Marques Brownlee]

Correct.

[David Imel]

Okay, but.

[Ellis Hamburger]

But I just want you to know that's how much my one gig flash drive was when I was a senior high school.

[David Imel]

That's how much I paid at Staples. And then they gave me the eight gigabyte old.

[Marques Brownlee]

Okay, Andrew, how much do you do?

[Ellis Hamburger]

329.

[David Imel]

320 is not correct.

[Marques Brownlee]

That's a little too much.

[David Imel]

Kids can't afford this.

[Marques Brownlee]

Andrew's gone over Marquez, so I might get this.

[David Pierce]

I. I wrote 149.97.

[Ellis Hamburger]

97.

[Marques Brownlee]

And it's another W from Marquez, unfortunately.

[David Imel]

Why did you do that?

[Marques Brownlee]

And the original MSRP was 149.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Oh,

[David Pierce]

that's a great price is right guess. Marquee. A great price.

[Ellis Hamburger]

No, actually, that's a terrible.

[David Pierce]

What?

[Ellis Hamburger]

No, no, no, no. Hold on. That's a terrible price is right guess. Because 99 you would get right on the nail, which means you get the product right.

[David Pierce]

I thought there was a chance someone would guess 150, so I was like, let me guess. Right under 150. Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

So you should have done 99, I think.

[Marques Brownlee]

Okay, so according to CNET, it says it was $149, but there's no longer an Amazon page for this.

[David Imel]

What about. Wait, you should have looked at the Wikipedia.

[David Pierce]

Right price, if you can find it. Can you be a devastating.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Can you say old one more time into the microphone?

[Marques Brownlee]

Old,

[Ellis Hamburger]

I guess like you're. You would be fighting against if it was 97. But it's so rarely 97. Unless it's a Costco item that's getting kicked off soon.

[David Pierce]

Should have done 98 at least.

[Marques Brownlee]

Would you like to know the price with inflation, how much it would be now?

[Ellis Hamburger]

329.

[David Pierce]

That sounds. It's probably more.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's probably like 500.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[Marques Brownlee]

It would be US$232 now.

[David Pierce]

That's it. What?

[Marques Brownlee]

A deal for 720p.

[David Pierce]

That's a deal.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Well, but you'd also. That's why they change the resolution. By inflation. By resolution.

[Marques Brownlee]

Oh, yeah.

[David Pierce]

Resolution, inflation.

[Ellis Hamburger]

It's like 4k.

[David Pierce]

Can we get a score update?

[David Imel]

But do you want to know, like, hold on. You know, you want to know who Flip got acquired by. It'll make you cry.

[Marques Brownlee]

I unfortunately know this is aol.

[David Imel]

It's worse.

[David Pierce]

A hardware.

[David Imel]

No.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Facebook.

[David Imel]

Sort of. Yes, yes. Hardware, but also software. But is also essential. Unfortunately, yeah.

[David Pierce]

Is it hp? Close.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Easy pass.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Even more essential. Even more terrible.

[David Pierce]

It's easy. It's.

[David Imel]

It's Cisco.

[David Pierce]

Oh, right.

[David Imel]

Like why?

[David Pierce]

Right.

[David Imel]

Like why?

[David Pierce]

I remember that happening.

[David Imel]

Yeah.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Wait, the Cisco with the Y.

[Andrew Liszewski]

No, with the I. Oh, yeah.

[David Pierce]

Yes.

[David Imel]

No.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[David Imel]

C, I, S, E, O. Yeah. Not sy, SEO and not Cisco. Yes.

[David Pierce]

That is really depressing. Wow. Anyway, I would love a score update. Sorry. Yeah.

[Andrew Liszewski]

David holding up the rear with 11.

[David Imel]

I always points.

[Andrew Liszewski]

Marquez, he's pulling ahead 12 points. And Andrew trailblazing CJ McCollum style.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Is he number 14?

[Andrew Liszewski]

You have 14 points, Andrew.

[Ellis Hamburger]

14 points.

[David Imel]

Oh, yeah. Okay.

[David Pierce]

So he.

[David Imel]

He invented the melt, The. The burger chain, the grilled cheese chain, the melt.

[Andrew Liszewski]

CJ McCollum.

[David Imel]

Sorry, the flip video guy. They have it in San Francisco.

[Andrew Liszewski]

I was going to be like, oh,

[David Pierce]

my God, it's a.

[David Imel]

It's a grilled cheese chain.

[Andrew Liszewski]

I thought it was a Mac and sheet.

[David Pierce]

He also did the voice for one of the Saja boys. I'm just kidding. All right, this is a perfect time to end this podcast. We're going off the rails.

[Andrew Liszewski]

It also wasn't him.

[David Imel]

The better time was yesterday.

[David Pierce]

Thank you.

[Andrew Liszewski]

This is a Cisco joke.

[David Pierce]

Thank you for watching and for listening and for learning with us so that we could, of course, you know, get trivia points, but also come away better educated than we were coming in. Catch you guys next week.

[David Imel]

Peace. Bye.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Wave Performance produced by Adelina Ellis Roven and Mariah Zenk. We're part of a Vox Media podcast network and earn your outro music is created by Vain Sill.

[David Imel]

Bingo.

[David Pierce]

We'll take the Statue of Liberty if you want to give.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Well, because it's ours.

[David Imel]

No, no, no, no.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Give us. It's ours.

[David Pierce]

Oh, yeah, it's ours.

[Ellis Hamburger]

The Statue of Liberty is over the New Jersey state line.

[David Pierce]

If you want to give us Staten island, we are fully claiming the Statue of Liberty.

[David Imel]

That's fine.

[David Pierce]

Ellis Island. The whole thing.

[David Imel]

Oh, Ellis island, too.

[David Pierce]

Yeah.

[David Imel]

Well, you could have it if you want. I mean, if it means that you take Staten island, then I think I'd make that deal.

[David Pierce]

Whoa.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Listen to all our Staten island viewers. We love.

[David Imel]

Don't have.

[Ellis Hamburger]

I just think you should stay in New York.

[David Pierce]

I just think you're New Yorkers. Yeah, I don't know.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Something wrong with that.

[David Pierce]

All right, well, we'll definitely learn.

[Ellis Hamburger]

Wait, hold on.