Will Apple Make a $599 MacBook?

Summary

Waveform Podcast: Will Apple Make a $599 MacBook?

Date: August 15, 2025

Hosts: David, Andrew, Ellis, Adam (sans Marques)

---

Overview: Main Theme and Purpose

This week, the Waveform team dives into the swirling rumors about Apple preparing a new low-cost 12.9-inch MacBook, possibly priced as low as $599, and what such a move could mean for the market and users. The conversation is a mix of rumor analysis, speculation, nostalgia for past Apple designs, and industry context—both from Apple’s and its competitors' perspectives. The episode also touches on major AI developments, new consumer tech features, and some fun app finds—true to the wide-lens, conversational Waveform style.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Will Apple Make a $599 MacBook?

• Rumor Recap:
  • Digitimes reports a 12.9-inch MacBook with Apple Silicon (A18 or A18 Pro chip) could launch between $599-$699. (08:01)
  • Leaks suggest color options (silver, blue, pink, yellow) and that it will be powered by iPhone-grade chips.
• Market Motivation:
  • Apple likely targeting budget-conscious consumers and “the Chromebook crowd.”
  • “A lot of Chromebooks are still cheaper than this, but … a lot of people just want that Apple logo on their laptop.” — David (08:11)
• Technical Trade-Offs:
  • No Thunderbolt Support: Limiting high-end professional or creative use, but likely fine for students and average users.
  • Speculation: Would Apple include a cellular modem like in the iPhone 16e for always-connected notebooks?
    • “I think a lot of people would pay for … the ability to just bring your laptop with you and not think about anything.” — David (10:10)
• Design & Nostalgia:
  • “We want the 12-inch MacBook to make a comeback because it was so incredible, so thin, so small…” — David (08:11)
• Efficiency & Segmentation:
  • Repurposing mass-produced A18 chips reduces costs.
  • Lower-cost model avoids cannibalizing higher-end MacBook Air and Pro lines.

2. App, Feature, and Tech Tidbits

• Reddit Gaming:
  • New “Reddit Games” found in the official app, adding minigames for engagement.
• Fun with Folders (Phones):
  • Recap and debate over the right/wrong ways to use folders on smartphone docks.
    • Andrew’s setup: Two folders, 12 apps each, for muscle memory and efficiency.
    • Listeners' poll: "111 in favor, 18 not; there are dozens of us!" (06:08)
• Cassette App:
  • New iOS app mimics the nostalgia of camcorder tapes, letting users relive random short videos from their phone archives in a “VHS tape” UI (17:03–22:00)
    • “Effectively creates all of these different videotapes of different years of videos … your phone effectively is a camcorder.” — David (17:55)
  • Fun fact: The creators want Google/Apple to "Sherlock" their work for the greater good.

3. Major AI Updates

• OpenAI's GPT-5 Release
  • Not as Earthshaking:
    • “People were thinking GPT-5 was going to be just as big. It’s not.” — David (33:09)
    • Biggest new feature: Automatic model routing (no need to manually choose “Pro,” “Flash,” etc.)
• Google Integrations:
  • ChatGPT Pro users will soon be able to connect Gmail, contacts, and Calendar.
    • “It seems like that’s one of Gemini’s most powerful assets…” — David (34:58)
• Community Reactions:
  • Negative: Too "cold" and data-driven compared to GPT-4O’s quirky, emotional tone.
    • “Most people are saying it feels a lot colder and more generic and data driven than emotionally driven, which is great. Which is really good.” — David (38:23)
  • Backlash when GPT-4O was initially removed; OpenAI promises tweaks and reinstated options.
    • “Apparently a lot of people got very upset about it because they had formed emotional bonds with their robots…” — David (39:07)
• Nonsense Bar Graphs:
  • OpenAI’s graphs at the launch were mocked industry-wide for confusing, nonsensical scales.
    • “[They] made literally no sense.” — David (42:14)
    • “If you had given this to ChatGPT, it would have done a better job.” — Adam (43:28)
• Personal Use Cases:
  • Mixed reviews; some hosts found ChatGPT 5 much better than Gemini for scripting or programming tasks (44:45)

4. Other Quick Topics

• Ford’s $30,000 EV “Model T Moment”:
  • Not a real product yet, more an announcement of a multi-threaded manufacturing process… but headlines abound (53:41)
• Games in Non-Gaming Apps:
  • Reddit and YouTube are adding basic games to keep users engaged; tie into broader “every platform wants to be everything” trend.
• Nostalgia & Fun Features:
  • Callbacks to physical media, analog devices, and fun visual quirks (e.g., the “loop” in macOS Preview).

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Apple's budget MacBook strategy:
  “I think they’re definitely going after the cheaper, like Chromebook kind of crowd here.” — David (08:11)

• On leveraging leftover chips for cheaper products:
  “For a while … they were taking last year’s Pro processor and basically putting it in the next year’s cheaper phone.” — David (09:00)

• On losing Thunderbolt support:
  “I don't think anyone would miss Thunderbolt because … the computer's not going to be able to do anything in iMovie…” — Ellis (11:07)

• On the value of “cold and data-driven” AI:
  “Colder and data driven also sounds incredible to me. I think that is a great move … I wish it was even colder, more data driven.” — Andrew (40:26)

• On OpenAI’s bad bar graphs:
  “These AIs don’t understand scale.” — David (43:15)

• On the quirks of nostalgia apps:
  “Your phone effectively is a camcorder … we almost never go back and watch these videos. But this sort of gives you, like, a fun way.” — David (19:25)

• On every tech company being everything:
  “It feels like every app at this point … if you’re a tech company and you have anything to do with social media, you also have now games and you do video and you do this and you do that…” — David (62:00)

---

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Time | Topic | |------------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 08:00 | Apple $599 MacBook Rumors: Pricing, Specs, Market Context | | 13:46 | Google Translate AI Tutor Mode—Duolingo Competition | | 17:00 | Cassette App: VHS/Nostalgia for Phone Videos | | 32:19 | OpenAI GPT-5 Release: Features, Backlash, Reception | | 42:14 | OpenAI's Bar Graphs Ridiculed | | 44:41 | Real-World ChatGPT-5 Usage vs. Gemini | | 53:41 | Ford’s $30,000 Electric Truck Announcement | | 58:27 | Games Coming to Reddit, YouTube, and More |

---

Waveform's Tone and Style

• Playful and Nerdy: The group riffs, jokes, and teases each other as much as they discuss the news.
• Listener Interaction: Andrew recaps the surprising bulk of comments from last week’s “folders on dock” debate.
• Tech Nostalgia: Regular asides into 00s devices, VHS tapes, AOL dial-up—framed as both loss and fun.
• Meta Insights: Wry commentary on the tech industry’s cyclical nature, consolidation, and feature bloat.

---

Conclusion

This episode is a quintessential Waveform blend of serious industry discussion, product speculation, and lighthearted banter. The possible arrival of a sub-$700 MacBook is the major storyline, but the episode also successfully contextualizes news in the broader digital and cultural landscape—with substantial attention to AI’s ongoing (and sometimes awkward) evolution, as well as app feature trends and the enduring appeal of physical media nostalgia.

---

For more episodes and show notes, visit Waveform Podcast. Marquez will return next week for Pixel Week and more deep dives.

Transcript

[David]

I'm NFL linebacker TJ Watt and this is my personal best. YPB by Abercrombie is the activewear I'm always wearing. That's why I reached out to co design their latest drop. I worked with designers to create high performance activewear that holds up to my toughest workouts. Shop YPB by Abercrombie in store, online and in the app because your personal best is greater than any when did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together.

[Andrew]

Use polls to settle dinner plans, send.

[David]

Event invites and pin messages so no one forgets. Mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone.

[Andrew]

All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[David]

Learn [e-mail] what does that sound?

[Ellis]

We need to remember what we lost, what they took from us.

[Andrew]

Dude. I feel like explaining to people how cool it was that you could go on the Internet while your parents were on the phone. Feels so distant, but like, yeah, that was groundbreaking.

[Ellis]

Yeah, you didn't have to announce like.

[David]

I'm using the computer, mom, I'm on AIM right now. I just.

[Andrew]

Can you take the phone call later?

[Ellis]

You just booted me.

[David]

What is up, people of the Internet? Welcome back to another wonderful episode of the Waveform podcast, Sans Marquez. I'm your host, one of them, David.

[Andrew]

And I'm Andrew. And I'm excited for this wonderful episode.

[David]

It's gonna be a wonderful episode because we're gonna be wondering where the heck Marquez is because he's still not here and it's troublesome. He's coming back next week.

[Andrew]

Theoretically, yes. You can watch his games on theworldgames.org they're all free streaming. And you can watch the VOD because it's in China and it's usually on when we're all sleeping.

[Adam]

Yeah, the description.

[David]

Yeah, he's still in China. Hopefully he'll get back next week on time to talk about Pixel because you better Next week's Pixel Week. This week we have a lot of interesting stuff for you. Mostly It's a very AI heavy week, I'm going to say. Notably, OpenAI released ChatGPT 5 the next day after we recorded the podcast last week. So we're a week late yet again. So we're going to discuss that. But there are good things about that because now there are actually reactions to it and we're not just saying what happened. They brought back GPT4O because people apparently are in love with their chat bots. Now Elon is suing Apple again, and Perplexity is offering to buy Chrome for a lot of money, and it won't happen. But first, we finally got our official first look at the Pixel 10 Pro Fold from Google after they shared the Pixel 10s last week.

[Andrew]

I have not seen this yet, so I'm saving my live reaction for the podcast.

[David]

Wait, let's see your live reaction.

[Andrew]

Ready?

[David]

Yeah, I'm ready. Live reaction live. Andrew, Reaction cam.

[Andrew]

Oh, that's the Pixel 9 folds.

[David]

Yep.

[Andrew]

Pro Pro Pro Fold profile.

[David]

What do you think?

[Andrew]

It's the same picture.

[David]

Yep, that's right.

[Andrew]

All right, sick. Next.

[David]

Moving on.

[Andrew]

All right, I want to bring up something from last week.

[David]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

The end of the podcast, we had a discussion. It was actually a trivia question that turned into a discussion about me putting folders on my dock.

[David]

Right.

[Andrew]

And I felt like everyone was attacking me here.

[David]

I'm sorry.

[Andrew]

No, no, it's okay.

[Adam]

I'm glad you felt that way.

[David]

I guess.

[Andrew]

Actually, first, Ellis was not here. I would like to see Ellis's take on this.

[David]

Okay.

[Andrew]

What is your thought on having folders with apps inside them on the dock of your phone?

[Ellis]

What did I say to you when you showed me because I got back from being sick and you were like, ellis, I need your opinion.

[Andrew]

I don't remember.

[Ellis]

I think it was something along the lines of, like, it's aesthetically. I can't co sign it, but I do understand the like, two tap. Like. Like the way your brain just sort of gets used to blind motor skills sort of stuff. You know what I mean? Like, I could totally see myself it being really efficient to just be like Spotify or Bank of America.

[Andrew]

I agree.

[David]

For those that didn't listen, you download something new. Yeah. For those that didn't listen, last week, one of the trivia questions was how well Andrew and I know each other. And one of the questions was, what apps are on our dock on our phones? Andrew has two folders full of apps.

[Andrew]

Two folders with 12 apps each. So I. You could have picked one of what, 24 +3 others, 27 apps, and you would have been correct on it.

[David]

I did get all four. Right, right.

[Andrew]

You did get them all.

[David]

Right. Yeah.

[Andrew]

But so, yeah, I. I like it. It's like second nature to just click things. And if I download something new, it doesn't. Because they're folders, they don't change my app drawer. I like, never go in my app drawer.

[Adam]

Pretty much my. My overall argument is you can never change them or you you have to retrain your brain.

[Andrew]

No, I just change. I like if I have to put something new and I take the least use app and put it in that exact spot so nothing else moves.

[Adam]

That's already too much.

[Andrew]

It's not. Okay. Whatever. Well, me not being, you know, really petty about this control effed my name in the comments of last week's episode and found well over a hundred responses. What either agreeing or disagreeing with me. And I have the final tally here. Okay, I'm read in favor of Andrew and folders. Here we go. 111 in favor of no folders. 18.

[Adam]

So there's 111 people that are psychotic.

[David]

Do these people actually have the same setup though or are they just saying it's okay for you to be this.

[Andrew]

No, no, no. A lot of them said folders in. I specifically did not pick the people who said this is such a good idea. I'm going to be using this from now on. I will say the 18 people. You were all really mean about it though. Diabolical psycho. Like it was name calling on top of it wasn't just this is there are dozens of us.

[David]

There was.

[Andrew]

It was aimed directly at me.

[David]

But wow.

[Andrew]

I think rude. I think folders wins. I'm just happy that there a lot of them were Android users. There were quite a few people who said I'm an iPhone user and still and put folders in my. My dock. Thank you.

[David]

I'm happy that we have a diversity of opinions.

[Ellis]

You guys want to guess what's on my doc?

[Andrew]

O It's just straight to the battery percentage.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ellis]

And also guess my battery percentage while we're here.

[David]

Oh yeah. 61. 61.

[Ellis]

Andrew.

[Andrew]

67.

[Ellis]

Andrew has it at 68. We're cooking this.

[Andrew]

It's 11:30. It's a little later than normal.

[David]

That thing's.

[Ellis]

I think I may have charged my phone a little bit in David's car this morning.

[David]

Oh. Oh yeah. True.

[Ellis]

My doc is really boring.

[Andrew]

Oh we want to. Oh yeah. What's on your dock?

[Ellis]

It's.

[David]

It's the default messages.

[Ellis]

Close messages is on there.

[Andrew]

Safari.

[Ellis]

Safari is on there. Phone is on there camera. No, there's nothing. It's just three.

[Andrew]

Oh.

[David]

Oh yeah. I remember seeing that looks so weird when I was hanging out with you earlier this week and I was like, oh, you did three. Yeah.

[Ellis]

Yeah. So it's centered.

[Andrew]

That's.

[David]

You can set our four things.

[Andrew]

Can you put five on an iPhone dock? No. Right.

[Ellis]

I view not on the midi, if you can. I think you might be able to with a small. I don't know, actually.

[David]

All right, well, we're going to move on to our first actual story here, which is that Apple is reportingly making a $612.9-inch MacBook running Apple Silicon. We talked about this earlier in June actually, because there was a rumor that there was going to be a MacBook with, with an A18 Pro chip in it or an A18 in it. And now we have some more details. According to Digitimes that says that this laptop could start between 599 and 699, which is crazy.

[Andrew]

That's crazy.

[Adam]

That's a very specific range.

[David]

The price.

[Adam]

Like, they're very confident.

[David]

Yeah, they're very confident.

[Adam]

Not even like, oh, 499 to like 999. They're like, no, it's within $100.

[David]

Yeah, well, 599 to 699. It's like, that is, that is pretty amazing. I think they're definitely going after sort of the, the cheaper, like Chromebook kind of crowd here. A lot of Chromebooks are obviously still cheaper than this, but a lot of people are very used to Mac OS or, you know, just want to have a lightweight, small, thin laptop. We've talked at length about how we want the 12 inch MacBook to make a comeback because it was so incredible, so thin, so small. And I think that could be really cool. Minchin Kuo, who is a leaker for a lot of kind of stuff like this, is suggesting that it could come in silver, blue, pink and yellow and would be powered by the A18 Pro chip from the iPhone 16 Pro.

[Adam]

I would get one of these so fast.

[David]

Yeah, that's.

[Andrew]

This is awesome. I mean, even just on top of people wanting Mac OS and stuff, some people just want an Apple product.

[David]

Yes.

[Andrew]

And like that's true. I think we all know that. And for the cheaper, you can make a person in class be able to open a laptop and an Apple logo, point out you're going to make a piss ton of money off. Like, if we're being honest, it's also.

[David]

Beneficial for Apple because they've already made a ton of these 18 Pro chips. And so the more they can make, the more the price goes down per unit. They probably have leftovers from the iPhone 16, you know, that kind of stuff. And that's the reason that Apple for a while was they were taking last year's Pro processor and basically putting it in the next year's cheaper phone because they were you know, they, it was just a way for them to like use old stock to lower the price of the, of the unit. Now, sorry now because it's the 18 Pro, it would not have things like Thunderbolt support. So it's going to be a little bit less capable, but I think a lot of people would probably be okay with that. A question I have is whether or not this thing would have the Apple C1 modem that we saw in the iPhone 16e. Because it would be very nice to be able to have a super thin and light laptop that had its own mobile data.

[Andrew]

Every time you bring this up it's like, why don't we.

[David]

Yeah, well it's mostly the modem stuff. Yeah. And now it is very easy to tether to your laptop from your phone, especially from an, an iPhone to an a MacBook. And it even pops up pretty instantly that says do you want to connect to your phone? So it's not that big of a deal. But, but I think the ability to just bring your laptop with you and not think about anything a lot of people would pay for.

[Andrew]

No, I totally agree. I also, it's funny because out of all the things I would want on this Thunderbolt is something I probably would want because generally in a smaller computer you probably have less storage and being able to just have like the fastest SSD on top of it. Especially because you're down to pay more because you've spent so little on the actual computer itself. But I guess if you're spending the less amount, you're probably not dealing with big video files or. Yeah, lots of images, stuff like that.

[David]

The people that they're aiming this at are not necessarily people who are going to be dealing with that kind of stuff.

[Ellis]

Yeah, yeah, they, they accidentally made The Apple Silicon MacBook airs like too good.

[David]

Yeah. You know what I mean?

[Ellis]

Like, like that's actually like such a capable computer for so many non professionals workflows that like it's kind of overkill if you just need something to like take notes on. So yeah, I don't think anyone would miss Thunderbolt because I think already yeah, computer's not going to be able to do anything in imovie and most of.

[Andrew]

The people who are doing stuff even with just like notes, documents, school stuff, all that's cloud based at this point anyways you're in like drive or something so it's not even taking up space.

[David]

Which ironically was the whole point of the Chromebook in the first place.

[Ellis]

Yeah.

[David]

So yeah, Apple just wants a little.

[Ellis]

Market segment of that it'll run Angry Birds really well though.

[David]

True. Because it's an iPhone processor. Okay, next story, Google is apparently adding a language tutor mode to Google Translate. Hey. Hey. It was. It's kind of cool. Okay, we agree. I'm excited. Oh, you're excited for this? Okay, so Android Authority did a tear down of a new Google Translate APK that included effectively a whole ass AI based duolingo competitor, which is very cool. You can tell the app your goals for learning the language, like if you're going on a trip or if you just want to talk to some like a spouse or something more often, and it will personalize the learning experience for you. So it's got an audio mode which plays words and different vocabulary for you and you tap the ones that you recognize. There's a speaking mode where you can practice your pron pronunciation. It looks very full fledged. Surprisingly, it looks quite built out. You should go check it out on the Android Authority website. They have a whole video where they, where they show it in action. So I mean, most of the AI stuff is just putting together like a little interface, like a specialized interface for you. So.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I don't know. I'm terrible at languages. I wish I was better. This did remind me though. Do you guys know that YouTuber that like all of his content is like, I surprise, blah, blah, blah by speaking like Uganda.

[Ellis]

Yeah.

[David]

Speaking like Mandarin. Yeah.

[Andrew]

Like at a Chinese restaurant.

[David]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

He did one recently where I surprised chat GPT by speaking computer language. And it's really funny. You should watch. He goes into it by like talking to chat GPT in different languages and he's like, can we just practice? And it goes back and forth and then I'm pretty sure he starts talking in hexadecimal and he just says a bunch of numbers and I'll be like, when it does that, ChatGPT starts going like, wow, you can speak in hexadecimal. And then starts like, can we go talk in a different language? And like, and then he talks about like the robot uprising. It's like, chill, man, let's go talk in like French again. Or something like that. And gets like really like nervous sounding. You should go watch it.

[David]

That's very funny.

[Andrew]

I think his content is very funny.

[Adam]

That's cool.

[David]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Should Duolingo be nervous about this?

[David]

No.

[Andrew]

You're a Duolingo user.

[David]

Yeah. You're the heaviest Duolingo user here.

[Andrew]

What do you think?

[Ellis]

What am I, chopped liver?

[Adam]

Yeah, chop liver. Ellis and I both have a streak that I keep failing at, but I think this has potential to make them shiver a little bit. But I think Duolingo has such a, like gamified version that this is more, I mean, from what we've seen so far, it looks more like very practical. It looks like, hey, I'm taking a trip next week or in a month. Like, let me learn some quick language things so I know how to use the bathroom. You know, Duolingo is more. It's way more social, it's way more fun. So unless they start adding those types of features, I'm not sure that this is like any direct competition.

[David]

Yeah, I don't think that they're trying to make like a full fledged, you know, competitor. But it is interesting to see something that Google has made that's been basically the same since they made it and adding all these additional features.

[Ellis]

I'm excited because there's a lot of, I shouldn't say a lot like I'm trying to learn all the languages, but there are a lot of languages that Duolingo doesn't support still and it doesn't seem like they're going to support them anytime soon. So that I are in Google Translate. So I would assume that Gemini can whip something up real quick.

[David]

Yeah, I mean, so this is an APK teardown from Android Authority, so I imagine that this is going to launch very soon, which makes me wonder if they're going to highlight it on the pixels. That might be something they do.

[Adam]

I mean, Gemini is already still pretty good at talking languages like the other. Well, actually, I'll do it right now.

[David]

Hold on.

[Adam]

Hey, I'm trying to learn Spanish. Do you think you could pretend to be a Spanish tutor and help me absolutamenti. It kind of does this already. So, like, I don't see.

[Andrew]

It would have been nice if it was like, hey, you're trying to learn Spanish. So I'm not going to just straight.

[David]

Speak Spanish directly into Spanish where you learn man immersion.

[Andrew]

I have a question about Duolingo. Is it all like, like you need to be present on your phone typing and pressing things? Right. Can you just do it by listening? So here's my que, like you two are like riding the bus or the train and can do it on that. I'm driving a car when I'm commuting. Is there a way to try it?

[Ellis]

You want like the old school, like learn Italian kind of.

[Andrew]

Well, because I can't use my phone when I'm driving.

[Ellis]

You know what is better than Duolingo that that should give them run for money. Just type in whatever language you want to learn on YouTube and then the word SpongeBob full episodes. And I'm like, not even joking, because if you're like us and you just know every line of the show anyway, like, no, but I'm not even. No, it's actually been, like, so helpful. There have been multiple times where I've heard a word and been like, oh, SpongeBob said that. He said it.

[David]

Like.

[Andrew]

Maybe I'll just start watching spongebob.

[Adam]

That's the pro move right there. Watching cartoons in the other languages.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[David]

Dang. Lastly, before we go to break, I actually think that Ellis is going to like this a lot. There's this new app from the maker of Crouton, which is that cooking app that they made, like, a Vision Pro version, and it won, like, an award. It's a very cool cooking app. They just released a new app called Cassette.

[Adam]

And, Oh, I saw this. It looks so good.

[David]

Cassette is cool. I downloaded this morning. I'll actually just give you a little live demo. But basically what it is is the idea was that we used to have camcorders, and on these camcorders, you would just record a few seconds, put the camcorder down. A few days later, you'd record a few seconds of something, put the camcorder down. You'd record random events, and then the tapes that you would have at the end would just be these tapes of, like, random moments of time that were all just sort of stitched together. And you'd label it, like, 2018, or, like, April20, you know, 20, 1996, something like that, you know? And so the idea of Cassette is basically to do that with your videos on your phone. All right, so this is the interface. It effectively creates all of these different videotapes of different years of videos that have been taken on your phone.

[Andrew]

And it has, like, a TV with a VCR above it.

[David]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

So it feels like you're, like pulling out of your VHS catalog.

[David]

Right. And so you. There's a take me somewhere button which basically randomizes which one you watch. But if I hit, like, the 2018 one, it takes it out, it puts it in the little tv, and then you can. You can play, you can fast forward, you can rewind, or you can, like, randomize, but it'll. I guess 2018 is probably not the best one to do because I only have one video from then. Hold on. Yeah, there's an eject button. So let's just say 2023. So it puts it in. There's Vibrations. It's very cool. And then it basically puts this like, little kind of like VHS effect on top of the video. And it also puts, like, the location and the time and the date.

[Andrew]

It's pretty much like a. Oh, there's me talking. Oh, I remember that. That was the scrapped YouTube short that we made. But wait, that was also.

[David]

I. I was with you.

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah, we were at.

[David]

We went to this concert together and it's kind of nice. You. You can just sort of just like watch all of these old videos that you've completely forgotten about.

[Andrew]

It feels like kind of a fun. A more fun version of the, like, this day in, like, Google Photos, like, X amount of years ago, or like, you were doing this five years ago, but.

[David]

Right.

[Andrew]

It's. It's stitching it together so you don't get the choice of doing it. And I guess it will bring back kind of like memories maybe you forgot about. Fun old way. Even though it's very funny that it's pretending to be a VHS tape when almost all of it was definitely recorded on your phone.

[David]

Oh, yeah. But that's the thing is, like, your phone effectively is a camcorder that we use all the time and we almost never go back and watch these videos. But this sort of gives you, like, a fun way to. You can like, sit with your spouse or something and just like, randomly watch a bunch of videos that you've taken on your phone, like, five years ago.

[Adam]

Does it take videos from your icloud or is it only local videos?

[David]

I am not sure.

[Adam]

Mine only shows, like, from, like, this week and last week and Adam changes.

[Andrew]

His phone every week, so it's not.

[Adam]

Very useful for me.

[David]

Yeah, it's probably your. I. Yeah, I'm not totally sure.

[Andrew]

But it's only iOS. Correct?

[David]

Correct, yeah. Right now it's only iOS.

[Andrew]

Android users like to have fun. We have folders on our docs. We know how to have fun. Come on.

[David]

Yeah, that's true. Anyway, I just thought it was fun and very cute. It is really.

[Adam]

It's a really clever app. I'm just nervous that this is going to be built into Google Photos, like, next week.

[David]

So I actually talked to the developer a little bit. They said they want it to be Sherlocked. So we built this because we really want there to be more, like, of a vibe when you're going through these features. And we, like, wouldn't mind it being Sherlocked because we're, like, not trying to make money from this. We're just trying to make phones a little more fun. To use.

[Andrew]

So it's exactly what I would say if I wanted to make a lot of money off of something.

[Adam]

Maybe because Google Photos does do this already, but it's does it terribly. It does like a weird basic track in the background.

[Andrew]

And like Google makes it feel like a remembrance video. Like, like someone died and then.

[David]

Yeah, no, like Apple Photos also does this because there's now the memory movies that you can make where you can describe something and it's giving me suggestions moments with Lee over time. A relaxing afternoon in the park, evenings out in San Francisco with epic music. It already does this, but it's very like evenings out in San Francisco. Wait, I always show them.

[Ellis]

I made the move of ordering us.

[David]

Pizza at 1am and it has this like animation, which is cool.

[Ellis]

Oh my God, you guys are so lame.

[David]

Wait, is it Epic Music? It's like me having dinner with Epic Music. It's so cringe.

[Andrew]

Wait, you picked the. Oh, that's Google or that's in your gas.

[David]

This is the. This is the memory movies through Apple Intelligence. And it's just random like videos. Yeah, it's pretty rough anyway. Yeah, it's. It's pretty rough. Stop. So yeah, I don't know. Fun little thing. Try it out. The nice thing is like you can download, it's free and then you just. You can just watch some random ones and reminisce a little bit. And then if you're done, you just done it all.

[Andrew]

Can I ask a question about it? If it has a feature and if it doesn't, they should have this. Is there like a way to cast to your TV through it? Because that would be the best way.

[Adam]

You mean airplay?

[Andrew]

Yeah, yeah. Is there not Google cast on iPhones at all? There is, man. I'm. I've really.

[Adam]

It depends on the app developer if they want to like put it in.

[Andrew]

Even airplay or whatever. I feel like the coolest way to do this would be it feeling like the VCR and then it's casting to your TV like you're watching on an old tv.

[David]

I don't, I don't know about Airplane.

[Adam]

Yeah, I'm going to guess not. You probably have to airplay your whole phone screen.

[David]

Yeah, probably.

[Adam]

Question for you, if I were to use this app just as a camcorder, will it do that? Like every time I open it up, it records on the same tape or does it just like access my album?

[David]

It just accesses your. Yeah.

[Adam]

There's no way to like record continuously.

[David]

No, you can't record through the app.

[Adam]

On the same file you can't record through the app. That's how I was.

[David]

Yeah. And then the other thing is, I guess there is a paid version that's a one time purchase of $8 and it lets you manually select videos. So I guess you can't normally manually select them. But I think that's part of the point is that it sort of just like randomizes and it's fun to just have fun.

[Adam]

I find this so interesting, this trend of like all these old analog things coming back in the form of apps because we missed.

[David]

Because we lost putting things in. Ellis and I were talking about this at his apartment the other night. Like Ellis has this amazing multi CD mixer that Andrew gave him.

[Ellis]

Yeah, that's how I. Funny, I was like, you brought all this joy into my life and it's so cool.

[Andrew]

The only time it's so cool because you can.

[David]

You can put up to five discs in it and there's a randomize feature and it there the number of the song on the disc disappears after it plays and there's just all these really cool.

[Ellis]

There's like a big grid of numbers from 1 to 25 or however many songs are on the album. And every time a song finishes the number goes black and so if it's on shuffle it'll like speckle out.

[David]

Yeah, it's cool. I don't know.

[Andrew]

My parents had one that held like like 50 CDs in this. It was basically a big spinning rack that held them all vertically and would spin around and I guess it would like feed it into the thing.

[Ellis]

My brother in Christ. That's a jukebox.

[Andrew]

Pretty much.

[David]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

I remember it then. Yeah.

[David]

Yeah.

[Adam]

It's funny because this is just how we used to listen to music like this. Makes me feel old.

[David]

I know. No, I don't know.

[Andrew]

You want to feel old. I feel AOL's killing dial up next month. Oh my.

[Adam]

Wait, it's still good.

[David]

Yeah, There's a lot of people that still use dial up.

[Andrew]

160000 people according to the 2023 census.

[Adam]

Actual people that use dial up or.

[Andrew]

Is it like fax machines or people who still pay? Don't know. They're still paying.

[David]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no. I mean speaking of like just really quickly. Just the things that we've lost.

[Adam]

None of this is on the docs by the way.

[David]

I know.

[Andrew]

So it's just going off the rails now.

[David]

Apple in the most recent of macOS Tahoe and I think the ipados version added in preview because pre the preview apps Icon is a loop, which, if you don't know, is like a little magnifying glass that you put on the back of a 4 by 5 camera so you can see the critical focus that you're focusing on, or so you can look at a positive piece of film on a light table.

[Adam]

Those words mean things.

[David]

They do. And they added a little Easter egg where you can now move around a loop on the app. Oh, and it's just for fun. And someone comment. Like someone had tweeted about it and someone commented, wow, typical Apple adding useless features. And I'm like, bro, if you like, come on, do you want no fun in your life?

[Ellis]

Like, I hate whimsy.

[Andrew]

Literally.

[David]

I'm like, does everything have to be practical? Geez.

[Ellis]

Also, before the, before the dentists and jewelers get in the comments, I, you know, loop is any sort of small magnifying glass that sits in front of you.

[Andrew]

That's true.

[David]

It doesn't have to be for film.

[Ellis]

Yeah, yeah, but it. It is.

[David]

I use it for that.

[Ellis]

Or what's the, what's the camera one called?

[David]

The.

[Ellis]

The Chapman's loop. The one that, like, suctions onto the rear screen.

[David]

Yeah. Chapman loop. Yep.

[Ellis]

So anyway, speaking of epic music in San Francisco.

[David]

Oh, what does that have to do with San Francisco?

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah, I thought we had a new.

[Ellis]

Speaking of epic music at San Francisco. What's that? Head To Head trivia. What's up? Welcome back to my first round of Super Head to Head Trivia because I was sick last week. But first, a correction, because two weeks in the future, I will make a mistake. And the reason I can say that is because that is when trivia extravaganza X0 comes out. But in that episode, which no one's heard yet, which we could just edit.

[David]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Wait, what? But we won't.

[David]

Why are you editing?

[Ellis]

I said that Claude was a Dutch name when it's actually a French name. I forgot. One of the most famous Frenchmen of all time. Claude Monet. Yes. So I apologize for when that happens.

[David]

Nice. Real ones know.

[Andrew]

No, they don't.

[Ellis]

Not yet.

[David]

They will know. Well, they know now.

[Ellis]

Real ones will know. It shall be known. Guys, in this second instance of Super Head to Head Trivia, the game where we ask you guys questions about each other to test your friendship. This time, we're going to be asking each one of you one question about the other person per break. So this first round, David, we are going to be asking you a question about Andrew.

[David]

Ooh. Okay.

[Ellis]

And that question is, what was Andrew's first job. I'm kidding. That's not the question.

[David]

Oh, okay.

[Ellis]

It could have been something that Waveform listeners may not know is that Andrew has a tattoo on his shoulder. What is this a tattoo of.

[David]

Andrew's Thinking?

[Andrew]

No, I'm thinking.

[David]

Why are you thinking?

[Andrew]

No, I'm thinking of how Alice knows that.

[David]

No reason.

[Ellis]

Because we're buds.

[Andrew]

Yeah, we're pals.

[Ellis]

How do you know that?

[Andrew]

We'll be right back. I've got a tattoo somewhere else.

[Ellis]

Support for this show comes from Shopify. Starting a business often comes with an endless to do list, but the right tool can make all the difference. And for millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify powers 10% of all E commerce in the US and supports businesses of every size, from global brands like Mattel and Gymshark to newcomers who are just getting started. With hundreds of customizable templates, Shopify helps you quickly build a brand that looks and feels like yours. It also makes marketing simpler, letting you create email and social campaigns with ease. And with AI tools built specifically for e commerce, you can generate product descriptions, discount codes and more fast. And best yet, Shopify is your commerce expert, with world class expertise in everything from managing inventory to international shipping to processing returns and beyond. If you're ready to sell, you're ready for Shopify. You can turn your big business idea into With Shopify on your side, you can sign up for your $1 a month trial and start selling today at shopify.com waveform go to shopify.com waveform shopify.com waveform support for this show comes from Coda, Powered by Grammarly have you ever listened to a podcast when one of the guests was clearly recorded on a computer mic or watched a great show but the lighting was just a little bit off? It doesn't matter how good the content is, if everyone isn't working together as a team, the product suffers. And now scale that up to an entire company. Trying to keep track of all that information, data and projects across dozens of platforms, products and tools will halt any productivity whatsoever. And that's why Coda, the All In One collaborative workspace that's helped 50,000 teams all over the world, is here to get you on the same page. By offering the flexibility of docs with the structure of spreadsheets, Coda facilitates deeper teamwork and quicker creativity. And their turnkey AI solution, Coda Brain is a game changer. It's powered by Grammarly. So Coda is entering a new phase of innovation and expansion and aiming to redefine productivity for the AI era. Whether you're a startup looking to organize the chaos while staying nimble, or an enterprise organization looking for better alignment, Coda matches your working style. Its seamless workspace connects to hundreds of your favorite tools, including Salesforce, Jira, Asana, and Figma, helping your teams transform their rituals and do more faster. You can head over to Coda I.O. wave right now and you'll get six months off of the team plan for startups for free. That's C O D a IO wave for six months of free Team Plan Coda IO Wave Eczema isn't always obvious.

[David]

But it's real and so is the relief from EBGLIS. After an initial dosing phase, about 4 in 10 people taking EVGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks, and most of those people maintained skin that still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

[Ellis]

EVGLIS Librechizumab LBKZ, a 250mg injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis, that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals, or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with epglis. Before starting epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief.

[David]

Ask your doctor about epglis and visit eglis.lily.com or call 1-800-lilyrx or 1-800-545-5979. Okay, welcome back. The biggest story that we missed last week because it happened the day after we recorded as usual, is that OpenAI released GPT5, which is their newest model. The big. Yeah, I know, I know. Yeah, pretty much this big AI wave kind of happened because chat GPT launched with GPT3. So we went through GPT4, which was like a pretty massive improvement. We had GPT 4.5 for a while. There was a 3.5 in there too. And then we've got all these micro models like 4O and all these things. But for a very long time people have been waiting with Bated breath because the jump from GPT3 to GPT4 was so big, people were thinking GPT5 was going to be just as big. It's not.

[Andrew]

There's one thing I've seen about all this, and I don't even know if it's official, but have you seen that photo of like, comparing the size of GPT 4 to 5? And it's like there's. It's just a photo of a circle that says GPT4, a picture of the sun which is like quite a bit bigger, and then a picture of GPT5 that's like three times bigger than the sun.

[David]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

Is this official or. It's been on the GPT subreddit for a while.

[David]

I don't think so. When we were going from GPT3 to GPT4, people were making a bunch of memes like this.

[Andrew]

Okay, so this is probably a meme.

[David]

And they were showing like the data size scales and they were just making it, like, ridiculous. They're saying GPT5 is going to be this big. Yes, probably not. So anyway, probably one of the biggest updates in GPT5 is that you no longer need to select the model we've talked about In Gemini, in ChatGPT, the most confusing thing about using these products is that they have all these models like Flash or like Deep Thinking or Deep Research, like all these different things or Pro. Yeah, all these things. And for regular person, it's like, how do you know which one is better for what? And it's confusing. And having to do that is annoying. Sam Altman did eventually say, yeah, this is really annoying. So one of the biggest updates is that they basically have an auto model router now based on your query. So whatever you ask it, it's supposed to automatically route you to the right model for your task.

[Andrew]

Okay.

[David]

Which has saved OpenAI quite a bit of money, they mentioned because, you know, it can use Flash more often when people would use the. The bigger model at different times. You know, things like that. Um, something that's also interesting is that Pro users are soon going to be able to connect their Gmail, Google contacts and Google Calendar to Jet Chat GPT Now.

[Adam]

I didn't realize you couldn't already do that.

[David]

Well, this surprised me a lot because it seems like that's one of Gemini's most powerful assets.

[Andrew]

Right?

[David]

Like Google has been in this incredible position because it has all of your data already. Not only does it have all of your, like, search data from just using Google, but it also has all of your emails and it has your calendar and like the things that you want agents to do or that you want your virtual assistants to do is to take action on things like your email and your calendar and search through things for you. So that has kind of been a thing that ChatGPT has not been able to. So it's, it's just surprising. I, I'm wondering and I'm guessing that there is some insane huge backdoor deal where OpenAI is paying Google a ton of money to allow for this.

[Andrew]

I guess can. I don't know the exact. What does it take to be able to like log into something via Google, you know, like getting that pop up.

[Adam]

Oauth.

[Andrew]

It's like.

[Adam]

Oh, it's a thing you build into your app. So basically you don't have to handle any of the user data yourself. You just let Google handle it and Google authenticates you.

[David]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

So I like. Does Google have to pay?

[David]

Because like I have no idea.

[Andrew]

Can Google stop me from deciding like I want to give Chat GPT all of my information in that sense or.

[David]

I don't know if like your Gmail, I guess your email data would be something that you could pass off.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I mean I think it's wild to do that and I think, I.

[Adam]

Mean we do it all the time.

[David]

When you log in.

[Andrew]

No, you're right.

[Adam]

With your email on like Apple Mail or something.

[David]

Yeah, this is true. This is true. It specifically mentions logging in with Gmail, Google Calendar and Google Contacts though, which is, is different from just like the raw file types, you know.

[Adam]

Does that include. I don't, I don't know if that's as crazy as we're thinking because that would be the same for me as like logging into a Calendar app, logging into an email, logging into a different like phone app. Like it has all that information that I put in there myself, but it doesn't have like my search history. You know, like Google still has that crazy amount of data and they get it by itself. Yeah.

[Andrew]

By default they just get it no matter what. You don't have to opt in.

[David]

Yeah. When you Google search and you're like logged in your Google account or if you use Google Chrome, like all of these are ways for Google to get more information about you. So I don't know. I'm going to have to do some more research about that is interesting that. Yeah. See if that's like a relationship.

[Adam]

Give that even top level information to ChatGPT and ask it questions about your calendar. Like that's kind of what I want.

[David]

It would Be very surprising to me that they didn't do that before, which is why I'm thinking there must be some sort of deal. Right? Feel like when they made all of the. Because they made all these GPTs that you could use a long time ago that were like specialized for different purposes and it seems like being able to access your email would be one of the first things that they'd want to add, but who knows. So that's interesting. They bumped the context window up to 256,000 tokens from 200,000 and they have a new Nano model available that is cheaper than Gemini apparently. Anyways, it's been about a week since it launched so of course you know, they launched on Thursdays. Now we've had time to actually digest this update, see what people are saying about it and it's not all as positive as OpenAI would have liked you to believe when they announced it. Most people are saying that it feels a lot colder and more generic and data driven than emotionally driven, which is great. Which is really good.

[Adam]

That's what I want from my tool.

[David]

Yeah, I don't.

[Andrew]

I hate when things are data driven.

[David]

I know, yeah. I mean one of the main updates to this is supposed to be that it hallucin hallucinates significantly less.

[Andrew]

Sounds great.

[David]

And that sounds great.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[David]

But there was a lot of backlash because initially when they launched GPT5 they just killed the 4 model, which was like the previous model that people had been using and apparently a lot of people got very upset about it because they had formed emotional bonds with their robots, which I really thought was going to take a little bit longer to happen, but apparently not. Apparently it happened immediately. So that's not fun.

[Andrew]

Well, I mean now maybe GPT5 will just understand when you're typing in a query that you wanted to be emotional about it and send it to GPT4.0. Well, without you knowing which one, this ain't grok.

[David]

Yeah. Based on the backlash, Sam Almond did say that they're going to be tweaking things to make it have a little bit warmer of a personality and then also give it access directly to the deep thinking mode when people want it. Also apparently people were saying it felt a lot dumber than four. Oh and then Sam Altman said that on the day that it launched the auto model switcher was broken which that seems like an excuse. I don't know. Anyway, a lot of people are not super happy with it, but I do think that this is probably going to be the future of these services. Is that you're just going to have some kind of AI model that you go and just ask things to and you're not going to have to be like, I want it to be faster this time. I want it to deep, like, think deeper this time.

[Andrew]

If I'm seeing if it sounds like the two biggest things here in terms of, like, features are auto choosing which model to use, that sounds like a great feature. I totally agree that, like, AI's whole thing is supposed to be like, this is easier. You can use your natural language, you can find stuff out without having to, like, learn SEO, like speak. So being able to pick or having to pick between them before was dumb.

[David]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

And like, really confusing. So doing that is awesome. Colder and data driven also sounds incredible to me. I think that is a great move and I think maybe I wish it was even colder, more data driven. Yeah, that sounds pretty good. So this sounds like a. They knocked it out of the park. Yeah, Yeah, I guess if people want it to be. Nah.

[David]

Yeah, I guess it could.

[Adam]

Like the same way it auto detects your query and decides a model, it could, like, determine how warmly it speaks to you based on your question, you know, because if you're like, hey, I don't know, what's the difference between these two things? It's like, okay, let me be like, friendly. And if you're like, hey, I have a medical condition, blah, blah, blah, like, help me figure this out, then it'll be like, more to the point.

[David]

Yeah. They specifically said that it was much better for medical queries, which. Go see a doctor.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Ellis]

Can you not just ask it, like, if you want it to be less cold, can you just be like, call me senpai, you know, and then it'll like, do that?

[Andrew]

That's. I kind of assumed that, but, like, that's the problem is if you can keep asking it to do things that you want, at what point is it not just feeding you?

[Ellis]

I need a partner. I need a partner to at least sort of predict my needs.

[David]

I mean, this is. We've talked about this before, but a robot that is just going to be like, affirming all the time. People are just going to turn into narcissists.

[Andrew]

There's plenty of manosphere podcasts that you can go to that will do all of that.

[David]

Yeah, well, I don't know. No one's going to push back on you or the AI is never going to push back on you. You know what I mean? So it becomes a problem. The very. Another very funny thing that came out of that launch was that they released a bunch of graphs to show how much better it was at certain things. And these graphs did. They made literally no sense.

[Andrew]

I saw Vergecast talking about this. It's. Yeah, basically like they're bar graphs and some of the numbers are not even remotely close. They're exactly the same size.

[David]

It makes no sense. This one is an academic graph that just says software engineering bench verified with thinking, without thinking. And a lot of these graphs, like they're the exact same size, but they have different numbers on them.

[Andrew]

So it says academic and then it has three bars. The GPT5 one is pink. It has two numbers. It's 52.8 or 74.9. 52.8 bars is higher than the bar next to it from OpenAI03, which is 69.1. And that graph is the same size as GPT4O, which the number is 30.8. So 52 is higher than 69. But 69 is the same as 30.8.

[David]

Yeah. They also had another graph that was deceptiveness and it just said it. It was rated a 50. What does that mean?

[Andrew]

Same.

[David]

What does that mean?

[Andrew]

These AIs don't understand scale.

[David]

Yeah, it was. Yeah. And people called this out, obviously, and they were like, sorry, we made this like the night before the presentation and we were really tired and I'm like, this makes no, no sense.

[Adam]

I feel like if you had given this to Chat GPT it would have done a better job.

[David]

No, I think this was made by an AI. No way. Yeah, because they, they don't understand scale.

[Adam]

Graphing is like one of the first things we taught computers how to visualize.

[Ellis]

No, they are bad. I, I've had a lot of trouble generating graphs with ChatGPT.

[Andrew]

Someone said vibe coded presentation.

[David]

LOL. It's. It's worse, it seems.

[Ellis]

So they, they, they're good at stuff like that. Like there was a few presentations ago where like it was Sam and a few engineers around this table in their office talking about some release and it was like the worst sounding video I think I've ever seen on YouTube. Like, it was so shocking that this company worth seemingly infinite amounts of money.

[Andrew]

Didn't I remember that we were all.

[Ellis]

Listening to it and we're like Mike somewhere properly. Okay.

[David]

Deception evals across models, which doesn't tell you at all what that means. There are two graphs. One is pink, one is clear. The pink one is much shorter and just says 50 at coding. Deception, whatever that means. And then there's one that's much taller that says 47.4. What is this?

[Adam]

Have you guys used this model yet?

[Andrew]

I have not.

[David]

I've. I tried it.

[Adam]

Yeah, I tried it yesterday.

[David]

I don't really. It's Whatever it like.

[Adam]

Well, I don't know if maybe this was already a thing in 4o, but I used to GPT5 with Gemini, and I was trying to figure out how to edit a Google script that I have, which, like, pulls numbers from YouTube Analytics, API, like, all this stuff. So I was like, okay, here's the script. Do this extra stuff for me. And I assumed Google Gemini would be able to do it, and it just completely.

[David]

The bed. Yeah.

[Adam]

Which is like, it's a Google product and Google Gemini couldn't figure it out. But I put the same exact thing into Chat GPT and it just gave me the right answer. So they're doing something right. I don't know, like, how useful that is to anyone else, but that's fair. It helped me yesterday.

[David]

No, it is surprising with Gemini, you know, they'll always make the announcements like, Gemini can now do this. And I'll be like, awesome. And then I'll be like, do this. And it's like, I can't do that. Okay. I don't know. These things are nebulous.

[Ellis]

How do you get on chat GPT5.

[David]

It's automatically. It's already five. They. They stopped allowing.

[Ellis]

Really?

[David]

Yeah.

[Ellis]

Because I.

[David]

If you just go to Chat GPT.

[Ellis]

I just asked chatgpt, am I speaking with four zero or five? And it said, you're speaking with four. Oh, five is not out yet.

[David]

Case in point, my friend.

[Andrew]

It just didn't tell four, so it didn't?

[David]

No, no, It's. It's only a five right now. There is a way to switch it to 4. 0, because people got upset that their little JAP model ran away from them. Yeah, but it should automatically be five for you.

[Andrew]

This is the bad place. All right, well, let's go to some cheerier news, which is Elon suing Apple for only listing OpenAI as the number one on the app Store.

[David]

Yeah. So Elon tweeted, Apple is behaving in a manner that makes it impossible for any AI company besides OpenAI to reach number one in the app Store, which is an unequivocal antitrust violation. XAI will take immediate action. This is really funny, because his tweet got community noted like crazy. First, the community Note said in January 25, 2025, Deep Seq was number one in the app Store. Then it said in July, perplexity was number one in India's App Store. And both of these things happened before Apple and OpenAI's partnership was announced. So some also someone also did the grock who's right about this? And Grok was like lol. Elon is completely wrong and same Oman's right.

[Andrew]

Community notes and Grok have hilariously been incredible because of how often it tells people they're wrong on the platform that they swear they're right.

[David]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Apple also responded to this when reached for comment and they said the App Store is designed to be fair and free of bias. We feature thousands of apps through charts, algorithmic recommendations and curated lists by selected by experts and objective criteria. And if you look at how many ratings and reviews Grok vs ChatGPT has, chat GPT just has like thousands of more reviews. So that's a thing. People are using it more. I'm sorry.

[Andrew]

It was also funny because Sam started tweeting at Elon and they got into a little fight about things and then I. I'm pretty sure like people brought up that OpenAI considers X links as potentially harmful. There's so many fun things of just everyone losing. Yeah, it's a great thread.

[Adam]

Love it.

[David]

We. We live under a world of oligarchs, my friends. So anyway, lastly, last AI news, I promise Perplexity has offered to buy chrome again for $34.5 billion. This will never happen.

[Adam]

Me too.

[David]

Yeah, true.

[Adam]

I AM also offering $34.5 billion.

[David]

Yeah, for context, perplexity itself is valued at only $14 billion. But they got a bunch of 14 billion. But they did get a bunch of funds that said that they would cover the rest or whatever. But this is not. This is not going to happen. Chrome is one of Google's main cash cows unless the government forces Google to sell it.

[Andrew]

So I wonder if like having these public offers out there changes how, like how this might go down of are we gonna force them to sell it? Like if we see that there are other companies out there that are not Google that are willing to buy it and maybe would. That's the thing is like it's clearly a monopoly. Chrome should be sold. I can't think of anyone who I would want to buy Chrome and not just assume that it's.

[David]

No, exactly. The only people that could afford Chrome are the other monopolies. Like, you don't want Amazon to buy Chrome.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[David]

You don't want Apple to buy Chrome. It's all bad.

[Andrew]

It's all bad.

[David]

It's all bad. I don't Also want to.

[Andrew]

It's cool seeing some numbers about what people potentially think Chrome is.

[David]

Could value it at.

[Andrew]

Yeah, 34 billion.

[David]

34.5 billion.

[Andrew]

Couldn't even go to 35 billion.

[David]

I know why 34.5. I guess 500 million is a lot of money. So.

[Andrew]

It is.

[David]

All right, well, that's about it for the AI segment of this podcast. Thank God. We're gonna take it to an ad break, but first, Andrew's gonna get asked a question about me.

[Andrew]

I already forgot what the question. Oh, no. Never mind. Super head to head trivia.

[Ellis]

I keep hitting the wrong button. I'm just so sorry, guys. But Andrew. Yes, keen Waveform listeners may have picked up that David is very musical, but what genre of music did David's band in college play?

[David]

I'm pretty sure many different genres.

[Ellis]

I'm looking for two in particular, and I'll accept either one.

[David]

Oh, two.

[Ellis]

One of them is a musical genre. The other one is an occupation.

[Andrew]

That. I don't know what that is. I know what instrument he played too. I don't even know what that means.

[Adam]

Hearing that described as an occupation is hilarious. You'll get it later.

[David]

Okay.

[Ellis]

It was submitted many times as an occupation during our Family Feud episode a little while back. Like two years ago.

[David]

An occupation. All right.

[Ellis]

I really hope I'm remembering this right about you, David.

[David]

I think I am. Well, I'll verify that at the end, like usual. We'll be right back. Do it.

[Ellis]

Support for Waveform comes from Monarch Money. When you get to that certain age, you realize that finances, it can be messy and confusing. But Monarch Money can act like your personal cfo, giving you full visibility and control so you can stop just simply earning and start growing instead. It's more than your average budgeting app. Monarch Money is a complete financial command center for your accounts, investments and goals. You don't want to just manage your money. You want to build wealth. And without a clear financial picture, financial dreams can feel out of reach. It's the reason Monarch Money makes managing money simple, even for busy lives. With all your accounts, credit cards and investments in one place, you'll always know where your money stands without the hassle. You can track your spending, savings and investments effortlessly so you can focus on what matters most, making your biggest life goals a reality. Plus, you can even share access with a financial advisor or tax pro at no extra cost. Get control of your overall finances with Monarch Money. Use code [e-mail] in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first [e-mail] with code WAVE.

[David]

Labor Day savings are here at the.

[Ellis]

Home Depot with up to 35% off.

[David]

Plus up to an extra $450 off select appliances like LG. Keep your routines running smoothly with an LG refrigerator you can can count on from the Home Depot. And with the connected ThinQ app, you'll know if the door is left open and when to replace the filter. Gear up for fall with Labor Day savings on lg, America's most reliable appliance brand at the Home Depot offer valid August 21st through September 10th. US only. Sea Store online for details.

[Andrew]

Race the rudders.

[Adam]

Raise the sails.

[David]

Race the sails. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over. Roger.

[Adam]

Wait.

[David]

Is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors.

[Ellis]

With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. Start converting your B2B audience today.

[David]

Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free 250 credit for the next one. Get started [e-mail] campaign terms and conditions apply.

[Andrew]

All right, welcome back. Two more. Okay, we're back already and I got booed. Two pretty quick things to talk about.

[David]

Not by us.

[Andrew]

Ford sort of released something just like you. All the headlines will say ford's announcing a $30,000 EV truck. It's not exactly what they did, but I'll get into that.

[Adam]

That's what I'm titling this episode.

[Andrew]

That's okay. Jim Farley, the CEO of Ford.

[Ellis]

Were you about to say Jim Ford.

[David]

Just like Tim Apple?

[Andrew]

That would be so he announced this week something that he is calling a Model T moment in history which is a great marketing scheme that David and Ellis both just t posed at the same same time. But the reason he can kind of call it this is because it's less about the actual truck that he's announcing and more about the assembly line that and how they're going to be producing EVs in the future. Right. So this is their way of getting into a more affordable EV. Kind of like the way Model Ts was the way with the assembly line to construct vehicles for more middle class America. Back in when was that Ellis, you seem like you had no when the Model T came out.

[Adam]

That is something else would know.

[David]

Ellis. Model T release.

[Ellis]

Model T came out in 1920.

[Andrew]

Did you just write Model T release date?

[David]

Am I wrong?

[Ellis]

Is it 2320? It's either three, six or nine.

[David]

It was 1908.

[Ellis]

It was 1908.

[Adam]

They stopped making it in dang 27.

[Ellis]

Wow. It's entire product generation.

[David]

Yeah. That was the Model T. Two little.

[Ellis]

Jokes on you guys. I didn't know that.

[Andrew]

Anyways, the kind of cool thing about this is that it's not just a linear assembly line. They announced that this would be multi.

[Adam]

Threaded.

[Andrew]

They are calling it like a tree.

[David]

Yeah, tree.

[Andrew]

Where three separate lines can start production on different parts of the car simultaneously. And they would all funnel down into the end of the assembly line.

[Adam]

Was no one already doing this?

[David]

I don't know, man. I don't know anything about.

[Andrew]

Yeah, I really don't know about production stuff like that. So they're doing a lot of other things to make these cars more efficient in terms of like automation on the assembly line and things like it says 20 fewer parts, 25 fewer fasteners and 4,000ft shorter of wiring inside it versus the Mustang Mach E. Where would that.

[David]

Be on the OpenAI bar graph?

[Andrew]

I think it'd be right between sun and GPT4.

[Adam]

It's right next to 48.

[David]

It's right next to deceptiveness.

[Andrew]

They're also going to be using lithium iron phosphate batteries which they say will save space and weight. Cheaper types of batteries. Iron.

[David]

Iron.

[Adam]

Iron. Like. Like fe?

[Andrew]

I think so. Oh, wow.

[Adam]

Interesting. Okay, sorry, continue.

[Andrew]

This is all still just like. We're not going to see production of this till 2025. The $30,000.

[David]

It is 2025.

[Andrew]

Or sorry, 2027. Damn. That would be crazy. There's no pictures of this truck. They say it's 30 000. It's going to have a 0 to 60 of 4.5 seconds. It's going more cubic feet in like interior space than a RAV4. And then that's not including the front. And they claim the trunk or the truck of the bed will be able to fit a surfboard and accessories without the use of a roof rack. What's confusing about that is I'm pretty sure you can just lean a surfboard up on a truck of a bed. So I can't tell the actual size. And there's also many different size surfboards also.

[Ellis]

That doesn't sound very mid sized truck anymore. That just sounds like a. A big old truck.

[Andrew]

It does. I think everyone's just assuming this is going to be a ranger size, which is in the truck world.

[Ellis]

That's a small truck.

[Andrew]

Yeah. Smaller truck.

[Ellis]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Andrew]

So yeah. But it's not just gonna be trucks. It's gonna be SUVs. Pretty much. All we're talking about platform and assembly here. Which is cool, but it's also slate.

[Adam]

Basically like the slate truck that was announced.

[Andrew]

It sounds bigger than the slate, but it sounds similar to that line of like the slate is though pick all your different parts like a la carte style. This is more like how we've talked about EV companies built in kind of like bases of vehicles so then they can make multiple different. Yeah. Platforms.

[Ellis]

The canoe rip.

[Andrew]

Yeah. So we'll see. This is a really big announcement for production not starting for one and a half years and we have zero photos of the truck. They did say there's apparently like a rumored some design of the truck going around to like Ford workers and some people have seen it so maybe we'll see a leak of it sometime in the future.

[David]

But I'm also going to release a.

[Andrew]

$20,000 evil website where I can reserve now with a hundred dollar. If so please link it in the show notes.

[David]

All right.

[Andrew]

Okay. One more thing.

[David]

Okay.

[Andrew]

Have you noticed Reddit now has games I have not.

[David]

Thank God gamers can afford.

[Andrew]

Okay. The Reddit app.

[David]

If you're a gamer, you cannot afford this.

[Andrew]

Everyone's favorite Reddit app. That's totally not terrible at all. I noticed this weekend. Now above my communities, above my most recently visited apps has a sidebar for Reddit games which first of all, why are we doing games on everything? Netflix has it.

[David]

YouTube.

[Andrew]

YouTube has. Feels like everybody's trying to do be the next like random app that has farmville that like a bunch of people get addicted.

[David]

Do not leave the app. Maximum monthly usage time, please.

[Andrew]

You don't. No, it's not mine. I can take a screen recording. Maybe they screenshot of it. I actually did take it.

[Adam]

Maybe it's like rolling out little by little.

[Andrew]

They're just personally in my sidebar right now I have games on Reddit, ridonculous, solve riddles. Then I have type battle Flappy Goose and discover more games. When I click and discover more games, it brings it up kind of like a subreddit.

[David]

Okay.

[Andrew]

With posts that have comments and titles. But then I like try and play. The first thing I try and play is Flappy Goose, but it just plays me a video of someone else playing it and then there's comments under it.

[David]

Because we need to touch grass.

[Andrew]

Don't really understand what's going on.

[David]

You really need to go outside.

[Andrew]

And then there's one Artillery games, they sort of are like this is pixel art and you have to guess what it is. But there's not really an actual answer to it. There's just a Graph of everybody's guesses. So, like, the first one I saw was Crash Bandicoot, and it was just a graph of people typing in Crash. Like Bandicoot. Crash. Crash Bandicoot. Crash Bandicoot with different capitalization on. Makes no sense. And in an app that already is terrible. Instead of fixing things like your timeline. Refreshing. And you losing all the articles you just saw. Or my algorithm just completely shuts off sometimes because I guess I'm not following enough communities. And since it won't list it chronologically, I just have no more things to read. Or my favorite, getting sold human growth hormone pills in the ads. Like, every single day. The ads are so bad. It's. It's like Twitter where you can just tell no one wants to advertise on this anymore.

[David]

Yeah.

[Andrew]

So you get the most. The dumbest ads possible. They're like, hey, let's add some games to this. Feels cool.

[David]

You got games on your phone. Do you got games on your app?

[Andrew]

Games in your broken.

[Ellis]

You know what app has games hidden in it that are actually kind of fun, though?

[David]

YouTube.

[Ellis]

The YouTube app. Oh, right. Have you played those? I've never played.

[David]

Yeah, there's like a Running man one that's kind of good.

[Andrew]

They're good.

[Ellis]

I just see all the name of their flash games from my childhood in there.

[Andrew]

Really?

[David]

Really?

[Ellis]

A bunch of them.

[Andrew]

Like. Like New Grounds or like, not that old.

[Ellis]

Like a little bit after that.

[Andrew]

What are those?

[Ellis]

What are those? I don't know, Like. I don't know.

[Andrew]

Tanks.

[Ellis]

Like the.

[Andrew]

The start.

[David]

Yeah. There's Prison Life City Smash and Solar Smash. Those are the ones.

[Andrew]

Those are the YouTube games.

[David]

Well, those are the ones that just popped up for me.

[Andrew]

I just don't get this trend of games I would love. There's got to be numbers somewhere of how many people are playing.

[Adam]

All you got to do is look at wordle in the New York Times. Wordle got them. So many new subscribers. Most of the New York Times money now comes from just people subscribing for their games specifically.

[David]

That is true.

[Adam]

I think it's like more than half of their profit or something crazy like that.

[David]

Don't quote me.

[Adam]

That was an AI Answer.

[Ellis]

I meant. I meant. I said flash games. I meant early mobile games from my.

[David]

Yeah, a lot of these are just kind of like early, easy mobile games that they put. But it's just. Yeah, I don't know. It's. It feels like every app at this point, every company, like, it's very rare now that a company will be like, we are A company that does this. It's just that if you're a tech company and you have anything to do with social media, you also have now games and you do video and you do this and you do that. And it's like everyone wants to be tick tock first and then everyone wants to be this and everyone. It's just like.

[Andrew]

Speaking of, didn't Instagram just launch the like, map your friends thing like Snapchat did?

[David]

Yeah, Snap maps.

[Andrew]

Snap or what did. Who's the CEO of Snap?

[David]

Evan Spiegel.

[Andrew]

Spiegel. Didn't he have like, in his LinkedIn.

[David]

Like it said Facebook? Yeah, he said he worked at Meta.

[Adam]

It was like head of product.

[David]

Head of product at Meta.

[Andrew]

Yeah, he's gonna have that like times two now.

[Adam]

I think that was a joke, though. But still pretty, pretty.

[Andrew]

No, no, it is a joke. All right, VP of product.

[Adam]

You didn't.

[Ellis]

What app might talk about that has goofy games in it that are pretty fun?

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah? What is it?

[Ellis]

It's the United app.

[Andrew]

Oh, but that makes sense. No, no, no, that makes sense because the United app's whole thing is like, you need to. You can't pay for the Internet, but it'll use the Internet just in the app for X amount of things. So it can serve you a couple ads.

[Ellis]

Do you know how frustrating it is when I'm on. I just want to play Angry Birds and I can't because Angry Birds requires an Internet connection now because of what they've taken from us.

[Andrew]

I've played a lot of blackjack on the United.

[David]

They've taken everything from us.

[Ellis]

I like the. The make the airplanes land. Although it's kind of freaky to play a game where you can make planes.

[Andrew]

Crash on a plane a little bit. All right, I think we're. I think we're done here.

[David]

We're done trivia.

[Ellis]

Oh, yeah. You guys think you're friends? We're about to find out.

[Andrew]

That makes it sound like you're gonna actively pit us against each other.

[Ellis]

Yeah, it's super head to head trivia. Oh, it's not super heads together trivia. Although maybe that'll be fun for next time. You have to work cooperative.

[Andrew]

Wait, that's a really good idea.

[Ellis]

Thanks. I'm full of them.

[David]

Co op. Yeah.

[Ellis]

Couch, co op, podcast, PvE. All right, David.

[David]

Oh, yeah.

[Ellis]

Something waveform listeners may not know is that Andrew has a tattoo on his shoulder. What is this a tattoo of a Frisbee?

[David]

You're just.

[Ellis]

You're just gonna do it. You gotta find 30 seconds to think about it.

[David]

What are the really, like, generic ones? There's, like, the Aerosmith logo.

[Andrew]

The Aerosmith.

[Ellis]

What does the arrow even look like?

[David]

It's like. That's like a. Like a tramp stamp tattoo.

[Andrew]

Are you saying, like, the wings on it?

[David]

Yeah, the wings. The angel wings.

[Andrew]

Hold on.

[Adam]

Saying Andrew has a tramp stamp.

[Andrew]

Wait, no, hold on. I want to keep this going. Yeah, if you think it's generic, like, what. What generic tattoo would I have? I don't think it's not generic tattoo. Like, it's not a generic in the tattoo sense, but this. The one on my shoulder is not necessarily, like, artsy or creative.

[David]

It is generic.

[Andrew]

You could call it that.

[David]

An American flag?

[Andrew]

No.

[David]

A gun. I don't know.

[Andrew]

What are some of.

[David]

It's not a Frisbee.

[Andrew]

It's not a Frisbee.

[Adam]

A few of his favorite things.

[David]

Oh, is it one of your favorite things?

[Andrew]

It is one of my favorite things. Things.

[David]

A beer?

[Andrew]

It is just a beer. I got it when I was 18, so that would be a beer. It's a logo.

[David]

Really?

[Andrew]

Part of it is a logo.

[David]

Really? What brands does Andrew like?

[Andrew]

Firefox?

[David]

Is it a mountain?

[Andrew]

No. Good guess.

[David]

Is it Patagonia?

[Andrew]

Like the Patagonia company logo? That would be sick. Not gonna lie. That would be Rei.

[David]

Costco. Those are all things.

[Andrew]

I'm writing these all on my future north Face. No, it's not.

[David]

All right, can you. Okay, let's do 20 questions.

[Andrew]

Okay, let's do 10 questions.

[David]

Okay, 10 questions. Is it a person, place, or thing?

[Ellis]

That's. That's not. It has to be a yes or no question.

[David]

That is. That is. Is it a person? By zing.

[Ellis]

Yes.

[David]

Yes, I guess it is a thing.

[Ellis]

Is it a vague concept?

[David]

Is it a sport?

[Andrew]

Yes.

[David]

Okay, you've whittled it down.

[Andrew]

No.

[David]

Is it a football? No, It's a sport.

[Andrew]

It's a sport.

[Ellis]

It's a football logo.

[Andrew]

It's a sport logo.

[David]

A sport logo?

[Andrew]

Yes.

[David]

Oh, the devil's logo. I did it in one question. Didn't need 20. Through the magic of editing. Call me a Magic 8 Ball.

[Andrew]

It's a little. It's the. It's the devil's logo. And then there's actually this, like, devil on skates with a hockey stick from their AHL logo. Like, incorporated.

[David]

Can I see it?

[Andrew]

Yes. Off the pod. Yeah, this is it.

[David]

I don't want this shoulder. Oh. Oh, I see it through your shirt. Oh. Oh, wow. That's cool.

[Andrew]

How old? It's almost 20 years old.

[David]

Wow.

[Adam]

Your tattoo is older than chat.

[David]

GBT feel old yet?

[Andrew]

It's probably. Feel old.

[David]

Feel old.

[Andrew]

Yeah.

[Ellis]

All right, well, Andrew, now it's your turn.

[David]

Okay.

[Andrew]

It is.

[Ellis]

Because David, while in college, was in.

[David]

A band and high school.

[Ellis]

Yeah. Actually, I realized I got that wrong. It was your high school.

[David]

Well, it was half high school, half college.

[Ellis]

As a young man, David was in a band. What genre of music did this band perform?

[Andrew]

I'm, like, very confident about this, which makes me worried that I'm wrong.

[Ellis]

If you can get both words I'm.

[Andrew]

Looking for, I'm only trying to choose one. I have literally no idea what the other one is.

[Ellis]

All right.

[Andrew]

Should I flip it?

[David]

Let's wait for the ending of the sound.

[Ellis]

Build more suspense.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ellis]

AOL dial up Internet.

[David]

That's only one.

[Andrew]

It is one, though. I wrote.

[Ellis]

I was looking for, though.

[David]

You're at ska Ska.

[Andrew]

Okay. What was you looking for?

[Ellis]

The other word I was looking for. And David, please correct me if I'm wrong.

[David]

Okay.

[Ellis]

The other word I was looking for was pirate.

[David]

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You know, that's actually true. Pirates.

[Andrew]

I should have gotten that.

[David]

Yeah, I would. I would classify it.

[Adam]

Why do both of you have a history with pirates?

[David]

Yeah, it's true.

[Andrew]

You guys should collab.

[David]

You should. We had a pirate song. We had a medieval ska song. We had a robot SCA song.

[Ellis]

Got it.

[David]

But it was more p. Like, pirate ska was more of the vibe. For sure. I've seen we have an album.

[Andrew]

It's out the blender music video with the pirate ship. That's like flipping up and upside down.

[David]

Rendering that music video. I had a razor blade at the time. It was the first one. And it melted the connector between the. The battery and the computer so it could no longer was the first razor blade.

[Andrew]

The one where some of the keys were. Were kind of like the stream deck where you could make them skills. Like in a moba.

[David]

Yeah, man.

[Andrew]

Razor used to think of some cool stuff.

[David]

They did. Yeah. The album is called Smoke and Mirrors by Loose Cannon Mariachi. You can find the album on any streaming platform. There are also many YouTube videos of us playing at county fairs.

[Adam]

Nice.

[David]

And in coffee shops. Anyway, I'm never gonna make money from that, so.

[Ellis]

You never know.

[David]

We have over a thousand plays. Hey, so that's been it.

[Ellis]

Yeah. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Waveform podcast. I don't think there's anything else.

[Adam]

Wait, I got something.

[Ellis]

He's got something.

[David]

Adam has something.

[Adam]

The Premier League starts this week.

[Andrew]

Oh, yeah.

[Adam]

I know a lot of people don't care. So you can start tuning out. But if you do care about Premier League football, soccer, footy, I am setting up a fantasy draft that I will link down in the description so you can join and we can just have a Waveform fantasy Premier League Soccer thing. So do that.

[Andrew]

And the winner of it gets to be the Waveform producer for one day.

[Adam]

Oh, actually I would love that if we get Marquez to sign off on that. I would do that.

[David]

Yeah.

[Adam]

Probably not. Those don't get. Probably mostly just for funsies.

[David]

Sports Marquez will be back next week. Thank God. Next week we'll be talking about all the pixels. Pixel they're gonna be launching. So it's gonna be a big week. Very exciting week. We're definitely going to learn new things. Definitely.

[Andrew]

I'm really. I'm almost definitely pre ordering this new Pixel.

[Ellis]

The next like a bunch of weeks for Waveform are really sick. We have Pixel and then Trivia Extravaganza and then. And then iPhone right after that.

[David]

Yeah.

[Ellis]

And then it goes back to sucking.

[David]

Yeah.

[Adam]

I love that you put Trivia Extravaganza in between our two biggest episodes of the year.

[Ellis]

It's literally trivia is like the biggest thing that happens in tech.

[Adam]

Nice.

[Andrew]

Well, yeah. Google and Apple like made sure their events didn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Ellis]

They shut down so that everyone's going to want to be at home watching.

[David]

That's true.

[Ellis]

Trivia Extravaganza. There's like a palpable shift in the S&P 500 from so many tech companies. Like being unproductive that day.

[David]

That's true.

[Ellis]

Someone please read us out before I.

[Andrew]

Waveform was produced by Adam Molina and Ellis Roven in partner with Vox Media Pocket. It's not working on it. Intro Outro Music was created by Vane Sil.

[David]

Bingo.

[Ellis]

I shouldn't have done that.

[David]

Now I just have to wait.

[Adam]

Now we gotta wait.

[Andrew]

Hold on one second. You're a gamer. You can. That's just embarrassing. I can't believe you brought that.

[David]

Smarts but also a lot of data. Shut up. Yeah. Wait. That's incredible.

[Andrew]

That was awesome.

[David]

Wow.

[Andrew]

So dope packages by Expedia.

[Adam]

You were made to occasionally take the hard route to the top of the Eiffel Tower. We were made to easily bundle your trip Expedia Made to travel flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.