619. Hold Fast: The Heart of Generosity: Trust, Belonging, and Community - Hali Lee

Summary

We Are For Good Podcast - Episode 619: "Hold Fast: The Heart of Generosity: Trust, Belonging, and Community" featuring Holly Lee

Release Date: May 12, 2025

In Episode 619 of the We Are For Good Podcast, hosts Jon McCoy, CFRE, and Becky Endicott, CFRE, delve deep into the essence of generosity within the nonprofit sector. Featuring returning guest Holly Lee, a renowned philanthropy innovator and author of The Big We, the episode explores the foundational pillars of trust, belonging, and community in fostering impactful and resilient nonprofit organizations.

---

1. Introduction: Embracing the Theme of "Holding Fast" (00:01 - 02:34)

John and Becky set the stage by highlighting the increasing challenges nonprofits face, emphasizing the need to "hold fast" to their missions amidst rapid changes and uncertainties. They introduce Holly Lee, celebrating her contributions as a disruptor in philanthropy and a community builder.

Becky (00:34): "We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers, and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world."

---

2. The Essence of Generosity: Relationships and Trust (03:23 - 05:05)

Holly Lee articulates that the core of generosity lies in building and nurturing relationships. She draws an analogy between physical constipation and the stagnation in philanthropy caused by overcomplicating generosity through professionalization.

Holly Lee (04:45): "We can overcomplicate generosity, especially when we professionalize fundraising and philanthropy. It can sometimes constipate the gears. So one of the things in my book is just like, come on, let's get it flowing."

Key Points:

• Generosity is driven by trust and relationships.
• Simplifying the act of giving can foster more authentic and fluid generosity.
• Building genuine connections leads to sustained and meaningful philanthropic engagements.

---

3. Navigating Donor Relationships: Short-Term Needs vs. Long-Term Trust (05:58 - 09:30)

John raises a critical issue: how nonprofits can balance immediate funding needs with the cultivation of long-term trust-based relationships with donors. Holly emphasizes the pivotal role of individual donors, especially in times when large institutional philanthropies face increasing scrutiny and challenges.

Holly Lee (07:15): "Individuals give for the long haul much more than foundations can. You can put organizations into your will, support them consistently over decades."

Key Points:

• Individual donors offer agility and sustained support that large foundations may not.
• Building long-term relationships with individual donors is essential for enduring impact.
• Nonprofits should prioritize cultivating trust over mere financial transactions.

---

4. The Shift to Collective and Inclusive Philanthropy (09:30 - 14:02)

The conversation transitions to the future of philanthropy, which Holly perceives as increasingly collaborative, collective, and inclusive. She critiques the traditional model dominated by "Big Phil"—heroic, individualistic philanthropists—and advocates for a more democratic and community-centered approach.

Holly Lee (10:45): "Our democratic system in America works only when its citizens care enough to get educated and join forces to do good in our community."

Key Points:

• Moving away from reliance on mega-donors to collective giving models.
• Emphasizing inclusivity and diverse voices in philanthropic efforts.
• Building community-based philanthropy enhances democratic engagement and societal resilience.

---

5. Practical Strategies for Diversifying Fundraising (16:10 - 22:30)

Becky prompts Holly to share actionable insights on how fundraisers can begin diversifying their donor base without overwhelming their teams. Holly outlines a two-part approach:

1. Assessing the "Why" and Building a Baseline:

   • Understand why diversification is essential for your organization.
   • Conduct an audit of your current donor demographics to establish a baseline.

2. Engaging and Building Relationships:

   • Initiate genuine conversations with a diverse range of donors.
   • Focus on listening and understanding donors' values and motivations.

Holly Lee (16:36): "Ask why is it important to diversify your fundraising base... then you can start building on a real ground."

Key Points:

• Start with Self-Reflection: Clarify the motivations and goals behind diversification.
• Data-Driven Approach: Collect and analyze data on current donor demographics.
• Genuine Engagement: Prioritize building authentic relationships over transactional interactions.

---

6. Empowering Grassroots Organizations (22:30 - 28:14)

Holly shares anecdotes illustrating the power of grassroots movements and collective action. She emphasizes that small, community-driven efforts can lead to significant impact when individuals organize and collaborate around shared values.

Holly Lee (26:05): "Individuals organized into groups are powerful. People are looking for community right now... the cure for loneliness is belonging."

Key Points:

• Collective Action: Small groups can drive substantial change through unified efforts.
• Community Building: Addressing social issues by fostering a sense of belonging and collective purpose.
• Low-Burden Initiatives: Encourage simple, community-centric activities like movie screenings or group discussions to build connections and support.

---

7. Homework and Practical Exercises (29:25 - 32:13)

Holly provides listeners with practical "homework" to implement the discussed strategies:

1. Read Dr. Vivek Murthy's Letter: Understanding the impact of loneliness and the importance of community.
2. Engage with Donors: Conduct deep, meaningful conversations with at least five supporters to understand their motivations and values.
3. Build Connections: Create opportunities for community members to connect and collaborate around shared interests and causes.

Holly Lee (31:00): "What brings you joy? The first question in our interview protocol is all about family and... the people and the culture and what brings you to this work."

Key Points:

• Deep Engagement: Shift focus from immediate fundraising to building meaningful relationships.
• Storytelling: Encourage donors to share personal stories to strengthen bonds and mutual understanding.
• Community Actions: Facilitate group activities that promote collaboration and collective impact.

---

8. Concluding Insights and One Good Thing (32:13 - 38:45)

As the episode wraps up, Holly shares inspiring examples of collective action, such as mothers raising over a million dollars through giving circles to support political change. She underscores the transformative power of organized groups aligned around shared values.

Holly Lee (33:50): "The power of individuals who come together in groups to do amazing things... they are powerful."

Becky reinforces the importance of humanity and simple acts of kindness in fostering community and impact.

Becky (33:10): "There are lessons for this moment and what it means to be human because we have seemed to lost some of our humanity in the way we walk through this earth. Let's be that humanity."

---

9. Final Thoughts and Promotion (38:45 - 39:05)

The hosts encourage listeners to engage with Holly Lee’s book The Big We and to start building or joining community groups that foster trust and collective action.

Holly Lee (38:45): "Invite me to your book group. Read it in a book group and LinkedIn me, you know, chat me on LinkedIn."

---

Key Takeaways:

1. Relationships Are Central: Genuine, trust-based relationships form the bedrock of effective generosity and philanthropy.
2. Shift to Collective Giving: Moving away from reliance on large, individual donors to a more inclusive, community-driven approach enhances sustainability and impact.
3. Practical Diversification: Nonprofits should methodically assess and engage with diverse donor bases through intentional strategies and authentic conversations.
4. Empower Grassroots Efforts: Small, organized groups can drive significant change by leveraging collective strengths and shared values.
5. Foster Belonging: Addressing social issues requires building communities where individuals feel a sense of belonging and connection.

---

This episode serves as a compelling guide for nonprofit professionals seeking to navigate the complexities of modern philanthropy. By emphasizing trust, community, and collective action, Holly Lee and the We Are For Good team provide actionable insights to inspire and empower organizations to make a lasting impact.

For more resources and to join the We Are For Good community, visit www.weareforgood.com.

Transcript

[John]

Hey, I'm John.

[Becky]

And I'm Becky.

[John]

And this is the We Are For Good podcast.

[Becky]

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more, and be more for the causes that improve our world.

[John]

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an Impact Uprising.

[Becky]

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers, and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

[John]

So let's get started. Becky, is your heart not just so happy right now?

[Becky]

I'm just thinking, like, the alliteration is real, like the happiness I feel that Holly is here.

[John]

I mean, it just feels like we can do this thing that we're talking about, which is Hold Fast. We got so inspired by the community around Impact up that we were leaning in together to say, when everything is changing so fast, how do we, like, dig deep, stay rooted to our mission when so much feels uncertain? And so, so, you know, we had to put a series around this and bring back some of the most popular guests from our gathering to go deeper and to, you know, not only just gain their wisdom, but to ask the questions we didn't have time to do@impact EP. And so we had to bring back one of our most favorite humans. And I'm gonna let you introduce her.

[Holly Lee]

Bea.

[Becky]

I mean, if this is your first time meeting Holly Lee, just settle back in because Holly is one of the great disruptors of our time and she is a philanthropy innovator, community builder.

[Holly Lee]

She.

[Becky]

If you missed her episode, please go back and check out because we talked about her new book called the Big We. She is also one of the founder of the Asian Women Giving Circles and a founding partner of Radiant Strategies. So she was back on the podcast here to talk to us about what it means to hold fast in the face of philanthropic power imbalances, maybe shifting donor priorities and burnout. Just a couple of small little topics that we'll be tackling today. So Holly is really here, and she's going to bring those bold insights on collective giving, on community centered philanthropy, and what your missions can do right now to cultivate trust and resilience in your funding relationships without losing yourself in the process. So if that theme is really speaking to you, know that the Whisperer is coming in here. Holly is just going to make you feel so protected and safe and ready to meet this moment. So, Holly, welcome back to the podcast. It's I mean, not been that long since you were back on. So we're back in the hot seat.

[Holly Lee]

You too. I love hanging out with you guys. Thanks for having me again, and it's a pleasure to meet your community and, oh, my God, that impact update. Congratulations. Amazing. The vibes.

[Becky]

Thank you.

[Holly Lee]

Well, the learning, the community.

[Becky]

You. You just added so much to that.

[Holly Lee]

Our.

[Becky]

Our speakers were off the chain, and you only have such a finite amount of time that you can go down into these topics. And we really wanted to go a little bit deeper with you on some of these, you know, bigger challenges, like, you know, shifting donor priorities and how we can work through power imbalances. But, you know, you help build movements like the Donors of Network, the Asian Women's Giving Circle. I'm just curious from your purview, like, what have these communities taught you about how generosity actually works?

[Holly Lee]

It's such an important question for right now, and I think the. The heart of it is relationships. You know, like, if you and I are friends, if you and I have days, weeks, months, four events that we've put together, like working together, we've done stuff together, then you and I have started to build relationships. I know I can count on you, Becky. I can count on you to help me do this thing. I know that John is great at this thing and kind of nodded at this other thing. You're like, the things that we learn from being in working, actual hard work, relationships with each other, trusting one another, and the flip side of that, which is being trustworthy. These things come with time, and these things come with spending time with one another, building things. One of the. It's a little bit crude, but it's one of the themes that kind of runs through my book is being constipated. And one of the things in our sector. Yeah. You know, like, sometimes we can. We can get a little constipated. I mean, you know, our bodies, but also philanthropy and generosity and giving and some of that. Sometimes I think we can overthink this. Sometimes I think we can make it harder than it needs to be. We can overcomplicate generosity, especially when we professionalize fundraising and philanthropy. It can sometimes constipate the gears. So one of the things in my book is just like, come on, let's get it flowing. And the thing that gets it flowing is loving one another, trusting one another, being in relationships with one another, and trying to accomplish things together with one another. So I think that's how generosity works. It's fueled by relationships and love.

[John]

Yeah. I mean, I Love your lens that you bring to every conversation you enter. Because it feels like the reminder that we're in this together, that it's not like us versus them. Like we're, we're trying to solve these problems together. We bring our own gifts, we bring our own talents to the table and it just feels more doable, you know, in every sort of way. And so I want to kind of ask a follow up because every day we talk to folks inside nonprofits that are feeling the urgency, especially at the rate at which things are changing and the urgency that I've got to find funding for this year. We don't even have a budget yet. All these kind of things are happening while at the same time holding the balance of trying to build long term trust, which is the long game. You know, it's slow deposits over time. You know, what would you advise of, like, how are you for these nonprofits trying to do both, that you have a budget to meet, but you also don't want to sacrifice that to build these long term trust based relationships with donors?

[Holly Lee]

It's so hard. And I've been there, you know, we talked about this a little bit on the first, our first conversation. I've been an executive director, I've been a fundraising person at a nonprofit. I've been a development and strategy person. It's so hard. But that's the name of the game. Like, we really do have to do both. I don't know if this helps, but in the moment that we're in right now, sociopolitically in America, I personally feel like individuals are incredibly important right now. You know, big foundations, big institutional philanthropy, foundation organizations have kind of a target on their back and it's really terrible. And we're seeing it happen. And we're going to get more news today or this week, I think around Earth Day. It's coming and it's not going to be good and it's terrible for our sector, you know, but. And a lot of organizations, including the national center on Nonprofits and People, you know, organizations are fighting what's coming down the pike for sure. But what that means, I think for individuals with a little bit of extra money to give or a lot of extra money to give, the role that individuals can play right now is incredibly important because we can be more nimble. You know, we don't have targets on our back in the same way that the Ford foundation or Sorda foundation have. You know, we have money that we can spend to hire people. We have votes that we can spend to elect People we have, every dollar we spend, whether it's at a restaurant or to give something charitably, is an expression of our values. And for those of us who work in the impact sector, we get to work with these individuals and partner with them to move their dollars and time and talent and treasure and resources along with their values. So I think the role of individuals right now when so many institutions are under attack is incredibly important. So those of us who work with those individuals have this kind of precious opportunity right now to partner and build community and build trust and build the relationships over the long haul. And you guys know from doing this work that individuals give for the long haul much more than foundations can. You know, we can put organizations into our will. I mean, how many organizations have you two been giving to for more than five years in a row or more than 10 years in a row? Or maybe for me, more than 20 years in a row. Like, no foundation is going to do that.

[Becky]

Yeah. I feel like this is the moment for grassroots. I mean, we are truly watching what happens when one person connects with another person and locks arms and lifts their voices. And I think, particularly for people who are looking to invest like that, trust is the pinnacle of everything right now. And I've heard you say that the future of philanthropy is more inclusive. It is more collective, it is more trusting. And actually, some of these words are the words that are going to be kicked out of certain grants. They'll preclude nonprofits from coming in. Yet it is the very answer by which our collective growth can be unleashed. So I want you to talk about that dichotomy a bit, because I want to know, from your perspective, what do you think that inclusive, collective, trusting world, what does that practically look like for fundraisers today, right now, in this moment?

[Holly Lee]

I think the future of our sector is collaborative. The future of our sector is collective. We have seen. I mean, the first third of my book, I nickname him Big Phil. We have seen what? Big Phil. Thank you for this. Big Phil and constipation. Phil has constipated all of our words. Yes. All of our gunk. So. And I've been there. I mean, Big Phil. So for people who haven't read my book, like, Big Phil, you know, thank you for your service. But it's big philanthropy. Billionaire rich guy knows best. Heroic, individualistic philanthropy. And it's usually a guy, so I nickname him Big Phil. It's sometimes a dead guy, which is unfortunate, but, you know, kind of ruling the roost. And. And Big Phil's done a lot of good, you know, like malaria, polio, a lot of vaccinations. And Big Phil continues to do a lot of good. But we cannot depend on Big Phil to save us, because Big Phil has other priorities that don't really include the rest of us. And Big Phil is also not great for our democracy because we can't it. Relying on Big Phil inspires a sort of passivity among the rest of us and our. I really believe that our democratic system in America works only when its citizens, that would be you and me and everyone listening on this call cares enough to get educated and cares enough to invite and be invited to link arms with friends, neighbors, colleagues, sisters, roommates, whoever, in order to do good in our community. So that's kind of the collective that I'm talking about. And the history of philanthropy in the United States has tended to focus on these heroic, individualistic people, when, in fact, if we look at generosity as practiced by our people forever, whether you come from Korea, like my people, or Lithuania, like some other people, or Italians. Italians, oh, my gosh, look at the Italian.

[Becky]

Always so loud, always have so much to say.

[Holly Lee]

But yes, Francis, rest in peace and power, you know, died recently. But our people have been practicing collective generosity since our people have been our people, you know, And I think that's what we kind of need to get back to in order to, I don't know, reclaim our sector for us and not sort of cede our power and authority to Big Phil. And the question, I think, for us is like, do we want to put our five T's, our time, talent, treasure, testimony, ties as individuals? Do we want to put those five T's in service to Big Phil, or do we want to put them into service for all of us? And the answer, I think, is pretty clear, how to put that into practice. Like, I met this guy. I interviewed this guy for an op ed that never got picked up. But I loved writing.

[Becky]

Oh, my gosh, send it over. We will send it.

[John]

We'll read it.

[Becky]

I'll send it to you guys.

[Holly Lee]

But he's a pastor in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, and he's a person of faith, and he has a congregation. And there's a group of people called Unlikely Allies, and they were getting involved in the Supreme Court race in Wisconsin that was concluded on April 1, I think. And the person who I wanted to win won it. But this group of Unlikely Allies is comprised of people of faith, people who have badges, so firefighters and police officers and the, like, veterans. Yeah, those three veterans, People of Faith and people, police officers. And firefighters. And they're coming together to activate around issues that they care about in common that happen to be issues having to do with housing and access to health care and education. Things that most of the rest of us, not necessarily Big Phil, really care about. And I think part of the answer and how do we practically build a more collective, inclusive, trusting future is one by finding unlikely allies and working together in our communities to do the things that like housing and education and health care that, that, that help all of our families. Finding partners that might not always be the same ones that we've worked with in the past and always. And then the last piece I would add to that is sort of like listening. More pew, less pulpit, you know, like less preaching and more listening. And I think that that kind of mindset can help us build the kind of partnerships and collaborative future that we need for our communities and also that our sector needs.

[Becky]

Hey friends. It takes a lot to power a movement as mighty as the IMPACT uprising. And we couldn't do it without We Are for Good's value aligned partners.

[John]

Yeah, you're right. Our partners make it possible for us to keep showing up with free education tools, series, summits and resources because they believe like we do, that investing in people and community creates real lasting change.

[Becky]

So if you're looking for a trusted partner to help you find a new tech solution, a CRM, maybe a new direct mail strategist, or you're even looking for an entirely new brand partner, start here. We've curated a direct line for your VIP ad access to these groups just by saying you're with We Are for good.

[John]

Yeah. Big gratitude to our ecosystem partners at Donor Doc, Feather, RKD Group and Whiteboard. They're not just partners, they're walking alongside us to build something better and more inclusive.

[Becky]

Head to weareforgood.com Rex to explore our go to tools and humans doing this great work. Lock arms for impact and put more fuel back into this community. That's weareforgood.com now back to the show.

[John]

Gosh, more of this. I mean love your lens there. I just think to me it keeps bringing hope to the table because I think it's easy to feel like man, we, we're running out of options. But the way you describe this that we're inviting, we're having conversations with people that you're not typically. This is not going back to the same old. Well, it's saying ask a bigger, better question. Find commonality, find what you're for. Find new people also to be part of this. And it leads to all the things that we're looking for. Specifically, diversification around fundraising, I feel like, is a really big topic, and it's one that you can. It's also very polarizing online right now, because obviously this is not something you can flip a switch and have all this diversified fundraising overnight. But what are your ideas as a past fundraiser in an editor? What are some smart shifts that we could make today to start moving toward more diversification without overwhelming our team? Do you have thoughts on that?

[Holly Lee]

That's a great question. And, you know, I led this body of work that was so much fun. The Donors of Color Research and Network Build. And I got to interview 150 wealthy people of color across this country. And that's all available for free to read. And the interview instrument is appendix A in the full report, so that's available for people to use, too.

[John]

Amazing. Thank you. We'll link that up.

[Holly Lee]

Yeah. Well, I can share it with you afterwards. The first thing is kind of hard, actually, that I think teams have to do, which is really to ask why. Like, there's really no point, I think, and this could be controversial to diversify a fundraising base unless we know why. And it's a little bit like, you know, like a lot of people, I gained. I've gained some weight in my middle age post Covid. If I want to lose some weight, I have to get on a scale, you know, so that's part two. Like, if I want to change something, I need to know what I'm starting with, you know, so that part two. So part one is like, why. Why is it important to you as a leader or as a staff member or for an organization to diversify your fundraising base and really talk about it and be honest, you know, like, is it just because someone told you to? Or is it, like, what are the reasons? And part two is, what are we dealing with here? So get on a scale. Like, how diverse is your donor base right now? What is it like? I remember being part of an organization that was literally going through names because they'd never asked, like, like, Lee, the last name, Lee, my name. That could be Irish, it could be Chinese, it could be Vietnamese or Korean. But they. No one knew what this organization because they had never bothered to ask what the ethnicity, gen race culture of the donors was. So they didn't have the baseline. So you got to get on the scale and figure out what you're dealing with and have these real conversations with your team. Like, why is it important? What is the demographic of the area you're in. I was at the Omaha Community foundation, and they had this. This is years ago. They had this desire to diversify their funding base. But how diverse is Omaha? It turns out that parts of Omaha are really diverse because of recent immigrant communities that have. Have flowed into the area. And there are some people there who aren't recent immigrants who are from diverse communities, especially if we consider gender and queerness and socioeconomic. So really break down in what categories kind of do we want to diversify our fundraising, our donor base, and why, and include all of the categories that are important to the organization that you work with. And that's part of, like, that's part of sort of building the baseline. And then I think then once you do that sort of homework, then you're ready to start. So all of this pre work, and the reason it's important to do this pre work having been a person who was recruited to join a board or a person who was recruited to join a donor. I don't know community, because I'm Asian American. People can tell when they're being kind of asked to join something because of their phenotype, you know, so the. So that homework level of work is important so that it gives your voice and ask and intention, some integrity and realness to the thing that you're asking people to join. So that's, I think, what you have to start with. And I'm sorry I didn't make it bit less overwhelming because it's almost like more work. But once you do that, that homework level stuff, then getting into the work of building a more diverse community, actually it flows a lot better because you have some real ground to stand on.

[Becky]

I feel like you're saying this in a way that is almost like you're giving me a recipe. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, this is the thing I want to tell people because I've also seen so much of this, like, oh, we need to diversify the funding. And it's like, whoa, whoa. That's like, to me, step like 10.

[Holly Lee]

Yeah.

[Becky]

Step one is getting curious about who's around you, who are your believers, who are those rabid fans that are around you? Why are they there? What are they bringing to the table? And if you have only ever asked them for a gift, then you're leaving so much on the table that could be brought into the mission. From story, from network work to influence to lived experience. And I. I just think what you're saying has deep resonance for this moment. That if you are on, if you are listening. And bravo to you, by the way, for sitting down and listening to 150 leaders of color and just hearing their stories. I can imagine that absolutely reshaped something inside your head that you thought you knew. And I think when you sit at the feet of a stranger and hear their story, something is going to shift. And if you are a incredibly progressive, smart nonprofit, you're allowing that community to come in and share that story and latch on to the story of you now, because their story is going to help make this mission more collective, more inclusive, more trusting, because we're allowing more voices to come to the table. And I gotta say, friends, it is a relief to me as a former marketer in this work, that I don't have to message who we are, that I don't have to bring all of the answers about where we're going and who we're made up of and how you can show up in this work. So, yes, listen to Holly. I think she is speaking such deep truth here. And I. We always want to think about the tiny nonprofit, which is the bulk of nonprofits and missions that are in this work. How would you suggest, Holly, that a smaller or more like grassroots organization could tap into these collective giving models to grow their base, to unlock their power? I know you've seen this play out so many times. Spill that tea.

[Holly Lee]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, I, I have so many ideas there, but I want to go back, I want to have. I have a short story about what you just said. Becky, we love your stories. One of the great privileges of getting to hear all these stories from people, you know, not always only people of color, but also a lot of people of color are the connections that happen. And I love it when these connections happen. So I interviewed this man, and both of these men were pushing 70 at the time that I interviewed them separate from each other. And one of them is black and one of them is white. The person I interviewed who was African American, he called himself African American. I always try to use the words that they use to describe themselves. He grew up pretty poor rural Texas, went on to be like C Suite, one of the big company that everyone's heard of. And just getting to know this person and his wife, I learned from him that his happy place is on a tractor because he grew up on a family farm in rural Texas. And now you would never know it because, you know, nice suit, nice tie, like, you know, awesome guy. Few months later, I met a man who's white. Microsoft made a ton of money, runs a family foundation. Now grew up in rural Nebraska and his happy place is on a tractor.

[Becky]

Like, I could totally relate with this with a lot of men in my family, right? Happy places.

[Holly Lee]

So these two guys from very different places and backgrounds have this really core nugget in common. So it was my great pleasure to get to introduce them to each other at this other random place that we were at and the look on their face and to watch them go off into a corner and eat their lunch on their lap on a paper plate and talk about their happy place on a tractor and then go on, of course, later to do more like work and professional and philanthropic things together. It's like such a joy, you know, and once you really lean into the listening part of our jobs as fundraisers, nonprofit people, impact professionals, however you identify yourself on, you know, listening to this call, the more you can lean into listening and hearing those stories, then more of those connections can get made. And that's how you could be one of those people that knits together people to be in groups that can do good things together. And then, Becky, now I'm going to answer your question.

[Becky]

I'm so glad you didn't go right into the question. That was worth the wait.

[Holly Lee]

But how, you know, think about the tractor? Like, in my head, thinking of these two guys in attractors, you know, 14 year old kid, just makes me happy. So how can smaller grassroots organizations tap into collective giving models? Because that sounds like more work, you know, to grow their base and power. I just want to say that individuals organized into groups are powerful. So can we just all remember that individuals organized into groups are powerful also? People are looking for community right now. You know, there is an epidemic of loneliness in this country that is literally killing us. You know, Dr. Vivek Murthy wrote a very moving paper about this and a final goodbye letter that People magazine published as he was leaving his post as Surgeon General. Loneliness is literally killing Americans. It's. It's as bad for our health as smoking. I don't remember, like lots of cigarettes a day and drinking lots of glasses of wine a day. People are dying. Deaths of loneliness and despair we're committing. You know, there's like a lot of bad statistics about loneliness. And the cure for loneliness is not necessarily expensive. It's belonging. It's building belonging. And that's the magic superpower that each of us who works within a community organization has, is a set of values that guides the work that we do with our organization and a bunch of people who believe in those values and the good that your organization is doing in your community. So my question to you, remembering these three things or two things, right? One, individuals organized into groups are powerful, and two, people are looking for community and belonging. So is your organization positioned to help people do that? Is your organization positioned or able to invite people in and get them talking about issues that are important in your community? Is your organization able to give them some structured homework to do to take action together? It's that simple. You know, is your organization in a community that and connected to more than five people who can be brought in to talk about important things in your community? Can you provide them a table around which to sit and talk about the thing? You don't have to ask them for money at that moment. You don't have to be an expert at all, except just like you're the convener, you're the holder, and then give them some light homework to do to take action together. One woman I interviewed for my book, she, she, I think she hosted a movie screening. She was a volunteer for a community organization in her town. She lives in Arizona. She hosted a movie screening around the issue that the organization does. She provided snacks and some light conversation. And at the end, she asked people to put in, you know, the cost of a movie ticket for the organization's thing for their. Whatever they were raising money for. So it was a light fundraising ask that was built into a movie screening in her backyard. Another person, you know, we've all heard of people who do birthday parties and in lieu of gifts, make a gift. So it's a way of bringing people together around your networks for a thing that you believe in. And I think most of our organizations, volunteers, board members, staffers, can do that for the organizations they're part of.

[John]

Okay, you know why we're kindred spirits? Because everything you said is what we're fighting for. You know, in this world, that the move, the money raised through the movie ticket is probably the least impactful part of what just happened in that room. But the belonging, the connection, the advocacy, the service that came from that is everything. And you can build on that. And I love that you quoted Vivek Murthy's, you know, his parting prescription, I think is what he called it, because we noticed it was these three pieces, relationships, purpose, and service that he talked about. And I'm like, we're uniquely set up to deliver that as nonprofits. So I love that you lifted it. What a powerful thing. And it's a must read. So we'll try to add that into the show. Notes as well. If you haven't read that. Okay, UT'd up homework. So I feel like I can officially ask you for some homework. Holly, is that we love these conversations that would lead to what we say. What starts here? Ripples. What are some good questions? Or what is an exercise you would encourage someone listening today that you really challenge them to think about this as an application for their organization. Or maybe they're volunteering with service. What is a way that we kind of go next step for everyone listening to move toward implementing these ideas?

[Holly Lee]

Well, I think you mentioned 1. Read Dr. Vivek Murthy's letter and People magazine.

[Becky]

Seriously, just Google it up. Chatgpt it. I promise it will be worth your while.

[Holly Lee]

Oh, my gosh. He's the college friend of the cousin of my friend. So through that thing, I just sent him a book.

[Becky]

Father's brother's sister's former roommate.

[John]

Yeah, y' all both come back to the podcast. We'll talk about this.

[Becky]

Oh, my gosh, Dr. Murthy, please come on.

[Holly Lee]

The Weir for oh my gosh, we.

[Becky]

Want to talk to you.

[Holly Lee]

And he just seems like such a kind, generous, smart person. I'm dying to be meet him. Anyways, I'll let you know if I can meet him. So read that. And then also the first question, and I think I mentioned this last, I'm sorry to repeat myself, but when I was doing these donors of color interviews, the first question in the interview protocol is, what brings you joy? Becky, John. And then stop talking. And it's a little bit awkward, but you just can't believe what comes out. You know, the first third of our interview and these were 90 minute in person conversations. I know not everyone has time to do that with 150 people in over a year or a half, but I bet you have time to do that with five people over the course of this year. Five people in your organization. If you work at a nonprofit, I bet you have time to spend an hour with five people you know, and don't make it just the richest person who gives to your organization. Talk to the volunteer who's been volunteering every month for 20 years. Talk to a board member. Talk to a variety of different people who are supporters and super fans of your organization. What brings you joy? The first third of our interview protocol is all about family and, you know, literally like, on whose shoulders do you stand to do this work? It's not until the last third that we start talking about money and start asking about money. So you can tell from the way we're priority prioritizing the conversation, that the priority is the person, the why, the values, the people, the culture, what brings you to this work. And I promise you that if you do this a few times, you will find connections from your to yourself and your why and you'll start to build that relationship with these foundational people to your organization and you'll start to find the tractor people. You know, you'll start to find the connections between people literally right, Whether. Whether it's having a parent who struggled with alcoholism or my happy place is on a tractor, or I have a sibling with a disability. Like, the things that you learn from, from listening and asking and listening are really profound. And it is those kinds of knitting blocks that I think will help you build what we need to build to.

[John]

Can I say something on that too? Because it's kind of selfish, but it's Becky. And my favorite part time hobby is to connect two people that probably wouldn't have accidentally run into each other. It's so joy to see those connections and get to say, hey, y' all just need to know each other in this world. And so what a gift that keeps on giving. Literally.

[Holly Lee]

Yeah, totally.

[Becky]

And P.S. those two guys sitting on their tractors, I can assure you this is my father in law, I want to be really clear, like spent his entire career in the oil industry and took all of that savings and wanted to be a farmer at the very end and he went back to farming. And I think there's something prophetic about getting back to your roots and the thing that grounded you and rooted you in who you are. And I just love these kindergarten principles that literally serve us so well today where it's like, be nice, grab each other's hands, share, you know, share your graham cracker, share whatever you can share with someone. Put your arm around somebody who's hurting. And I just think there are lessons for this moment and what it means to be human because we have seemed to lost some of our humanity in the way we walk through this earth. Let's be that humanity. And so, Holly, you've been on the podcast. You know, we're going to wrap it up with a strong one good thing. Can you drop a one good thing as it relates to this topic today that you could leave with our audience?

[Holly Lee]

I'm so. I have a hard time with just one. As you guys know.

[Becky]

Becky, if you need to have a couple, we love you. So go and do what you want.

[Holly Lee]

God, it's just hard, hard, so hard to pick one, I gotta say. Like the two Guys on the tractor, they're in my head now. They also are important to remember is like they're connect like they've now they've lived in big cities, but they have that rural heart, you know, and they, they now are doing both. And in terms of like connecting and now, you know, like we need to remember that large parts of our country are in rural. Yes part, you know, are rural and not so connected to the Internet and not so connected to some of the wealth and bounty that the coasts have kind of had. So I feel like people like that who have had, who have lived in, in those both of those places are really important now to kind of harness as they have lived experience in both and as we're trying to build that connective tissue across this huge, diverse, amazing country, they have a lot of, of intelligence and wisdom to offer us. I just, it's just striking me that. And they're actually both really involved in, in knitting those connections and trying to drive more resources from coast to more rural and inland kind of areas. So I'm just. Kudos to both of these guys who I'm thinking of. Okay, but one good thing. So tonight, sorry, now I'm switching. I had to like, I had to go there for a second. But tonight I'm going to a States Project party. So the States Project is a network of giving circles around the country and a lot of them are run by women. And this is a group of moms. And we all of I went to, my kids went to preschool with these, the kids of these moms. So I've been friends or peripherally friends or friend friends with these Women for like 25 years, you know, and they, they, I helped them start a giving circle. And when they started, you guys, they were so afraid of raising money. You know, they were so deeply uncomfortable raising money. And these are like super capable, smart, uber volunteer moms that, you know, they were the ones who kept me in line for like show up with a baked good, you know, don't forget your kid's supposed to dress as something. You know, like they always, they helped really help me out. They bailed me out so many times. They're like super capable friends and parents, but they were so uncomfortable raising money. So I sort of gave them this pep talk. You guys can do it it. And this group of uncomfortable women have gone on to raise one over a million dollars to send boards state legislative races around the country. Not in New York. They've, you know, sent money to different states over the past several election cycles. And it's amazing, you know, and so this group of moms is there, there, there's dozens if not a hundred of these giving circles around the country that are pulling their letter writing and phone calling and, and money raising skills in order to affect some political change in communities that, that they want to support. So that's my one good thing. It's the power of individuals who come together in groups to do amazing things. You guys heard my mother in law story last time we talked. My 96 year old mother in law, you know, her table, amazing tea around her kitchen table materially impacted a state legislative race in her rural part of the country. And now this group of moms whose party I'm going tonight, also pulling the individuals coming together in groups organized around a set of values, adding some money can make powerful change. So that's my one good thing for this morning.

[John]

Don't you just feel so buoyed hanging around our friend every time? Every time. I know, know. So my friend, point us to where we can find the big we point us to where people can find you online. Look at that beautiful book.

[Holly Lee]

Look at this.

[John]

Oh my gosh.

[Holly Lee]

I tried to sell my book, you guys. It's hard.

[Becky]

It's so fantastic. I really want to put a strong endorsement on it because I do think the future is we. It is for sure. Because we cannot go at it alone anymore and I don't want to any longer.

[Holly Lee]

Me neither, Becky. Yeah, me neither. Yeah. So you can get it wherever you want. Honestly. Buy one. Of course. Audio. I read. Yes you do. Yes. My voice.

[John]

Oh my God.

[Holly Lee]

I can lull you, bore you to sleep if you want to read the audio.

[Becky]

So check it out. I mean I'm a fan of Libby so I will check it out from my local library. But get in communion community with your people. Find your people. If you don't see a table, set one up, start one. It doesn't have to be anything formal. It doesn't. You don't even have to bring snacks. Though I would encourage it as someone who likes to eat and is an Italian. But like friends, let's just get started. Let's start sharing power, sharing story, finding common ground. Holly, I think you have dropped a lot of wise knots nuggets today and it's why we love hanging out with you.

[Holly Lee]

Draw. Invite me to your book group. Read it in a book group and LinkedIn me, you know, chat me on LinkedIn and all.

[Becky]

That's a great idea.

[Holly Lee]

Zoom into your.

[Becky]

Pull it in. Let's get a group discussion going around this Everybody owns their part. Thank you, my friend, for all. Hopefully we'll see you in another couple weeks. We can't go every couple weeks without hanging out.

[Holly Lee]

It's a deal.