622. Hold Fast: Building Donor Trust in Uncertain Times - Mike Duerksen

Summary

We Are For Good Podcast - Episode 622 Summary: "Hold Fast: Building Donor Trust in Uncertain Times" with Mike Dirksen

In Episode 622 of the We Are For Good Podcast titled "Hold Fast: Building Donor Trust in Uncertain Times," hosts Jon McCoy, CFRE, and Becky Endicott, CFRE, engage in an insightful conversation with Mike Dirksen, CEO of BuildGood. This episode delves into the crucial strategies nonprofits must adopt to maintain and build donor trust amidst today's uncertainties.

---

1. Episode Introduction and Guest Overview

Hosts Introduction: Jon McCoy and Becky Endicott open the episode by setting the stage for discussions pertinent to nonprofit professionals facing increasing pressures to amplify their impact. They emphasize the podcast's mission to foster an "Impact Uprising" through innovative ideas and inspirational stories.

Introducing Mike Dirksen (00:38 - 02:17): Becky warmly welcomes Mike Dirksen, highlighting his three appearances on the podcast and his role as CEO of BuildGood. Mike is praised for his ability to transition organizations from transactional fundraising to building meaningful, sustainable relationships with donors—an especially timely topic as 55% of the community identifies maintaining strong funding relationships as their primary challenge.

Notable Quote:

Mike Dirksen (02:54): "You actually walk the talk on the community thing. Everybody's like, ah, yeah, community, right. Just get closer to people... it's incredibly inspiring."

---

2. Navigating Current Challenges in Nonprofit Fundraising

Discussion Begins (03:03 - 05:31): John McCoy poses a pivotal question to Mike about how nonprofit leaders can approach donor acquisition and retention during chaotic times. Mike introduces the concept of focusing on retention rather than solely on acquisition, explaining that sustainable growth often hinges on maintaining existing donor relationships.

Key Insights:

• Retention vs. Acquisition: Retaining donors is generally more cost-effective and reliable than acquiring new ones.
• Growth Calculations: Mike illustrates the complexity of growth targets by showing that aiming for a 20% increase isn't just about raising an additional 200k but also compensating for a 20% donor and revenue churn, effectively doubling the effort needed.

Notable Quote:

Mike Dirksen (03:19): "A lot of your growth is very likely going to come from retention, maybe not as much from new donor acquisition."

---

3. Strategies to Engage and Activate Existing Donors

Identifying and Prioritizing Donors (08:07 - 10:15): Becky builds on Mike's points by asking how organizations can identify and prioritize existing donors for deeper engagement. Mike outlines two primary methods:

1. Analyzing Donor Data: Focus on multi-year donors who consistently give year after year, regardless of the gift size.
2. Donor Surveys: Utilize surveys to ask donors if they're open to making larger contributions in the future, effectively pre-qualifying potential major donors.

Implementing the "Nine-Word Email" (10:15 - 12:00): Mike introduces a straightforward yet powerful tactic known as the "nine-word email"—a concise, plain-text email from a key figure in the organization asking for permission to share more about an important project.

Example Provided:

Mike Dirksen (11:55): "Becky, we have an important project coming up. Can I share more?"

This approach strips away formatting and unnecessary elements, fostering a more personal and direct connection with the donor.

Notable Quote:

Mike Dirksen (12:00): "It's a bit of a two way. It's not just you yelling at the void."

---

4. Maintaining Motivation and Consistency in Fundraising Efforts

Addressing Fundraising Grind (14:09 - 17:13): In response to a listener's question about sustaining motivation during slow fundraising periods, Mike emphasizes the importance of consistency. He uses the analogy of gardening to illustrate how persistent effort, even when results aren't immediately visible, eventually leads to growth.

Key Takeaways:

• Consistency Compounds: Continuous, steady efforts in donor engagement yield significant long-term benefits.
• Emotional Resilience: Fundraisers must embrace the emotional labor involved in building and maintaining donor relationships.

Notable Quote:

Mike Dirksen (16:00): "If we're doing all the right things and if we do them for a long time... healthy things just, like, can't help but grow."

---

5. The Fundraising Flywheel: A Continuous Cycle of Engagement

Exploring the Fundraising Flywheel (19:17 - 23:48): Mike introduces the concept of the "fundraising flywheel," a cyclical process comprising listening, engaging, asking, celebrating, and reporting. This model emphasizes building trust and deepening donor relationships through consistent and meaningful interactions.

Components of the Flywheel:

1. Listening: Understanding donor needs and interests.
2. Engaging: Creating two-way communication channels like webinars or town halls.
3. Asking: Making targeted and thoughtful requests for support.
4. Celebrating: Acknowledging and celebrating donations to foster a sense of community and joy.
5. Reporting: Keeping donors informed about the impact of their contributions, reinforcing trust and transparency.

Notable Quote:

Mike Dirksen (22:30): "Trust is built by making promises and keeping them and reporting back is basically you saying, we asked you for money, you gave. Something good is happening."

---

6. Emphasizing Human Connections in the Age of AI

Humanizing Fundraising (25:19 - 26:08): As the discussion shifts towards the future, Mike stresses the importance of maintaining human-centric fundraising strategies, especially with the rise of AI. He advocates for personalized interactions, such as handwritten notes and short video messages, to differentiate nonprofits from automated, impersonal outreach.

Actionable Advice:

• Personal Touchpoints: Utilize methods like handwritten notes or brief video messages to connect with donors.
• Human Over Automation: Lean into human interactions that AI cannot replicate to build deeper, more authentic relationships.

Notable Quote:

Mike Dirksen (30:03): "Think about what is the most human thing we can do... because it's clear that AI cannot do this and just lean into that."

---

7. Actionable Steps: Homework for Listeners

Tactical Recommendations (26:30 - 32:33): Mike provides listeners with practical "homework" to implement the discussed strategies:

1. Donor Analysis:

   • Pull a list of donors with at least three gifts but haven't donated in the past 18-24 months.
   • These donors are valuable and should be re-engaged.

2. Outreach Methods:

   • Use the "nine-word email" or similar concise messages.
   • Leverage tools like ringless voicemails or LinkedIn's voicemail feature to maintain personal contact without being intrusive.

3. Consistency in Communication:

   • Set a regular cadence for outreach and reporting to ensure ongoing engagement and trust-building.

Tool Mentioned:

• Slybroadcast.com: For sending ringless voicemails that allow nonprofits to reach out without disrupting the donor's day.

Notable Quote:

Mike Dirksen (27:43): "Let's just go, hey, I just wanted to check in. How are you? How are you with all of this?"

---

8. Conclusion and Final Insights

Final Thoughts (33:00 - 33:04): The episode wraps up with heartfelt appreciation for Mike Dirksen, emphasizing the value of his insights and the positive impact of his work with BuildGood. Guests and hosts reaffirm their commitment to fostering a community focused on making a meaningful difference.

Final Notable Quote:

Mike Dirksen (31:24): "We get to be the most human thing ever... something you can do, and we're gonna let you know, like, the progress that you're making together."

---

Key Takeaways:

• Prioritize Donor Retention: Focus efforts on retaining and deepening relationships with existing donors rather than solely acquiring new ones.
• Consistency is Crucial: Regular and consistent engagement builds trust and leads to sustainable growth over time.
• Human-Centric Approaches: Personal, authentic interactions outperform automated methods, fostering deeper connections and trust.
• Utilize Strategic Tools: Implement practical tools and tactics like the "nine-word email" and ringless voicemails to enhance outreach effectiveness.
• Engage Through the Flywheel: Adopting a cyclical approach to listening, engaging, asking, celebrating, and reporting ensures a continuous and trusting relationship with donors.

This episode offers valuable strategies for nonprofit professionals aiming to build and maintain donor trust, emphasizing the importance of human connection and consistent, meaningful engagement.

Transcript

[John]

Hey, I'm John.

[Becky]

And I'm Becky.

[John]

And this is the We Are for Good podcast.

[Becky]

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more, and be more for the causes that improve our world.

[John]

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an IMPACT uprising.

[Becky]

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers, and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

[John]

So let's get started. Becky, friend in the house.

[Becky]

Yes, dear friend in the house. Brilliant, visionary, and someone that we learn from every single time he comes onto the podcast, which this is his third time, y' all. We are holding fast. Welcome back to the Hold Fast series. And if you've really dove into this series, it's an extension of the conversations that we already had at Impact up in April as we're talking about this notion of holding fast and weathering the storm. So we're continuing to explore what it means to stay grounded and true to our values in the midst of uncertainty. And Mike Dirksen is in the house with Build Good, and, man, what an incredible human being.

[Mike Dirksen]

Thanks for. Sorry for jumping in here.

[Becky]

We're not even done. Hold on to your butts because we.

[John]

Got a lot more to say about you, Mike. So there's Mike's voice. You know, he speaks to this entire sector as just somebody that brings his mind, brings his heart, brings storytelling in a way to help us all do better and build better. You may know him as the CEO of BuildGood. He's on the heels of hosting his first ever BuildGood summit. I mean, getting together people in real life. Mike just shows up for this community in such a powerful way. He has helped countless organizations move beyond transactional fundraising to really meaningful, sustainable relationships. And y' all get this. At a moment when 55%, 55% of our community said their biggest challenge is maintaining strong funding relationships, we feel like this conversation could not be more timely. And Mike is going to bring his calm, clear voice to the chaos. My friend, you're a family man, and you're always welcome in this family here. It's so good to have you back on the podcast, Mike. Good to see you.

[Mike Dirksen]

Thanks for having me. It's such an honor to be here. You know, like, before we hit record on the mics here, we were talking about we are for good a little bit. And what I didn't say is that, like, Every time I talk to you, I'm incredibly inspired as a, as a business owner, owner on what you guys have done because you, you actually, like, walk the talk on the community thing. Everybody's like, ah, yeah, community, right. Just get closer to people. But, like, you've built this entire we are for good based on just rallying people and then, like, listening to them and then engaging them and then actually like, like doing what you say you're going to do. So it's incredibly inspiring. I feel honored to, to be sitting at the table with you.

[John]

Oh, my gosh. I feel like you always do this. You get the mic and then you try to turn it for good. But this is, this is about you and your brilliance. Thank you for your kind words.

[Becky]

Really.

[Mike Dirksen]

Thank you.

[John]

I mean, my friend, how can nonprofit leaders walk into this moment right now? I mean, we still need to think about how we're acquiring donors. How can we keep our donors, you know, with us retention. How are you walking into that right now with so much chaos? What's, what's some advice that you jump.

[Mike Dirksen]

Into today with the way we're approaching fundraising at the moment is like, yeah, like, a lot of things seem uncertain, a lot of things seem divided. Everything seems highly polarized. But maybe this might not apply for every cause. By the way, what we're really interested in is what is the common ground and what is just like, human stories. And how can we just get back to the story of one? And how can we just get back to having dinner table conversations in our fundraising as much as possible? And a lot of your growth, you asked about how organizations think about retention and growth a little bit. A lot of your growth is very likely going to come from retention, maybe not as much from new donor acquisition. So I don't know if you want to dive in there, if that's a.

[Becky]

Good place to go. Yeah, keep going. Let's double click on that.

[Mike Dirksen]

A lot of fundraisers are probably in a situation where they're being asked to do more in the next 12 months with the same or fewer resources. So let's just use a very practical example. Let's use easy math. Let's say you're raising $1 million per year, and the board or leadership says, let's grow by 20%. We need to raise $1.2 million per year. And that might seem doable, it might seem feasible. That's finding an extra 200k. Now, realistically, what people never take into account is that you're going to have some revenue churn year over year. Even the healthiest of files, you're going to be losing some money year over year. So let's say you have an incredibly healthy file, you're doing all the right things and you're losing about 20% of your donors and maybe 20% of your revenue every year. So now next year you've got a million that you raised this year. Next year you want to raise 1.2. That seems like you need to raise an extra 200k, but you're also going to lose 200k. So that takes you back to 800k. So now you've got to raise an additional 400k next year in order to meet your 20% growth rate. So you think you have to raise additional 200k, you actually have to raise an additional 400k, 200k to stay even, another 200k to grow by 20%. Right now, all of a sudden your growth sort of rate that you set for yourself has doubled and your heart.

[Becky]

Rate while you're doing this math. Yes.

[Mike Dirksen]

And so very simply, you may not be able to find 400k of new revenue that is not as easy to do. And we'll talk about, in this conversation about how it actually takes some time to build a sustainable program and how a lot of wins happen a little bit later on in terms of like revenue wins. And so a lot of your growth, I would say just plan for it to come from retention, plan to, for it to come from the donors that you already have. Donors you already have are a lot more valuable than the ones you hope to acquire. You have to be acquiring donors. But today growth is going to come from today donors and then tomorrow growth is going to come from donors you acquire today. So that's, that's first mindset is like really see who's in our file, who's connected with us. Let's really focus on going deeper with those folks. It is better for your file overall. It is also easier. It's an easier lift for you than having to stress about finding thousands of new donors and raising all this new money from new donors. And so frankly, it's just the healthiest thing to do for your file.

[Becky]

I mean, that's such good starting counsel, I think, for this conversation and I hope it gives our listeners an exhale a little bit that the people that you need are already there. They already believe, we call them believers. Like, how do you activate those rabid fans? Because I think your point is really well taken because to acquire a new donor is significantly more expensive and takes more time than trying to retain an existing donor. So let's, let's go a little deeper into these audiences because I'm wondering what sort of advice you would give to organizations who are trying to identify those. And because you have a big pool, you have a lot of donors in there, how do you identify and prioritize those people who are already connected and how do you start to lift those in a cadence that makes sense because you've come on the podcast before and, and I love your evangelism of saying if you're just showing up to ask every single time, like you're going to alienate a lot of that base. And so it cannot just be this drum beat of asking, asking, asking, but like, how do you find those people and what is the rhythm that you put them in to where they're really seeing that they're an active part of this movement?

[Mike Dirksen]

Yeah. So let's say you've got. And everything we're going to talk about today is, is very much focused on less so institutional funding. So less so, like big funders. Although a lot of this stuff also works for big funders. But we're very much talking about like level giving, like the average donor next door. Sometimes we call them mass. Right. Broad based donors, mid level donors, those sort of, those types of people. Let's say you've got this pool and you've got maybe thousand or a few thousand in your file. There's two ways that we would start to identify, okay, who can we go a little bit deeper with? And both of those things have nothing to do with the size of the gift. So if you're just thinking like, who gives the most? Not a bad way to think. Of course, whoever gives the most try to have a good relationship and see what their interests are. But that is not necessarily the key indicator of who can give more. So we would look at that file and we would be like, okay, let's look at who are key multi year donors. So these are people who give year after year. Size doesn't matter. 50 bucks, 100 bucks, 200 bucks. Who gives year after year? You may find that you have a few hundred people who give to you every single year, once a year or twice per year they've been showing up regularly. That is a huge signal. A huge signal. So that's a cohort of people who absolutely would be good candidates to try to design a program around like based on outreach. And we'll talk about that in a second. So that's one way. Another way is to actually just ask people if they Want to go deeper. And you can, you can do that one on one, but you can also do it at scale. Donor surveys are an incredibly underused tool. So many organizations just don't, just don't ask for feedback. They ask for money, but they don't ask for brain share. They don't ask for opinions or feedback. And I just, I think maybe they just don't know how or maybe they're a little bit afraid or maybe don't.

[Becky]

Have time, haven't thought about it. Yeah, it's not on the KPI board. I feel this.

[Mike Dirksen]

Yep, exactly. Now you can ask a few different ways. You can have a question that says, hey, if in the next six months an urgent need comes up, would you be in a position to make a gift of $500 or more? Would you be in a position to make a gift of $1,000 and more? And the donor isn't saying they're going to make that gift, they're just saying that if an urgent need comes up in the next little while, they would be open to having that conversation. So they're almost pre qualifying themselves. And you will see that you will very often have hand raisers, people who actually say they can do that. And now the door is open. The door is open for you to follow up with those people and to actually start having a conversation about what urgent needs look like at the organization. That's one way you can do that. Another way is really scary. And it's called a nine word email. And it's scary because of how short it is. And it's like a completely plain text email from the CEO. We call it nine word email. It doesn't have to be nine words, but it's very short. And essentially it goes something like, there's an important project coming up. Can I share more? Question mark? John, that's it. You're just asking a very pointed question.

[John]

Dear friend, comma, there's no merge. Dear friend at the top. Oh, no.

[Becky]

Eleven words. Come on now.

[Mike Dirksen]

It would be like, becky, we have an important project coming up. Can I share more? And then John, like that's kind of.

[Becky]

What I love, the directness of that, honestly, in the succinctness. Yeah.

[John]

And your designer saying unformatted email. Like, I'm like, listen to this advice. It's so good. We don't have to put the, the.

[Becky]

Masthead and the yes. And a meme and yes.

[Mike Dirksen]

Yeah, yeah. Nope. Plain text email from the director of development, the fundraiser, the CEO. Even better. Yep. And we've seen some really Big, big gifts come in through this way. We just recently sent out a plain text email. It wasn't a nine word email. It was a little bit longer, but it was very much about like cake. Can we share more about this project? And a $50 donor said, yeah, sure, but I would like to do it over coffee because I want to make a $500,000 gift.

[John]

Oh, what?

[Becky]

Oh, it's not even my organ. I still get goosebumps.

[John]

Yeah, that's really cool.

[Mike Dirksen]

So this was a children's hospital. This guy had been in their file for, for a long time, just making 50 bucks per year because that's all he was ever asked. Because frankly, you do the, you do the list poll, you see how much people are giving. This is their range. Somebody gives 50 bucks every year. Maybe you try to upgrade them, but you're not going to ask for $500,000. That would, that would be, you know, insane. But you never know until you actually give people those opportunities every now and again. And so that's another tactic is you can literally just ask people if you can share more about an important project. And it's scary because if people reply, you have to actually get on the phone with them or get on a zoom with them or have a back and forth via email.

[Becky]

Real, real talk here.

[Mike Dirksen]

Yeah, that is a little bit also how friends would communicate. Right. And we all say fundraising is about relationships, but relationships are like, it's a lot of emotional labor. It just is. And that's what we're signing up for. And I completely don't want to undermine the fact that emotional labor is hard. But it is also our jobs as fundraisers to connect deeply with people in our files. And we have a duty of care, I think, to actually tend to those relationships. So that's another way you can do that is by asking pointed questions.

[John]

I mean, Mike, what I love about this advice is it, it applies to literally everyone. You weren't putting thresholds of what constitutes a major gift or not. It's seeing your file as humans that they are that believe in the cause and inviting the invitation, the gift of activation. And what's that? Clear next step. So so much clarity here. I gotta lift this question that came up at Impact up that we didn't have a chance to jump into was this. This is from Isaac out in Feeding America, Eastern Wisconsin. Hey, Isaac, he said, what are some tips for getting through the grind of fundraising outreach? Because, I mean, hearing you describe that there's periods of time when it feels like, is this thing on? Like Is anybody listening? It feels like we're not getting responses.

[Mike Dirksen]

Yeah.

[John]

What do you say? What's some advice that you share with your clients for getting through that grind?

[Mike Dirksen]

Yeah, thanks for the question, Isaac. So, first of all, bit of mindset, which is. Which is we're going to talk about this too, which is consistency compounds. We all want, like, wins and we all want them to happen quick. I am. So I'm the worst offender for this. That's why I keep reminding myself that consistency compounds. But know that what you're doing in those one to three months when it feels like nobody is getting back to you, this thing isn't even working. Those things are. They kind of are working in the background. You just won't know about it for a while. And so you just have to tell yourself that it is working in the background. You just won't know about it. So maybe tell yourself, hey, I'm entitled to the effort that goes in into tending to this garden, right? And I'm going to do my best to plant all these seeds. I'm going to do my best to till the soil. I'm going to dig ditches so that when it rains, I can capture all the water. But I don't know when it's going to rain. I do know that when the time comes and it does rain, I've done everything I can to make the most of it. And this garden is going to hopefully grow into something beautiful because of the things that I did that were under my control and then the things that happened that were out of my control. And the only thing I can do to affect that equation, the final outcome, is the things in my control. So that's number one. You're a bit of a gardener here. And nothing is blooming, and that's okay. The rain will come and we're just preparing for it and we're doing all the right things. And if we're doing all the right things and if we do them for, like, a long time, like if we do the common thing for an uncommon amount of time, things are going to happen. Because that is. I talked about having a healthy file and doing healthy things. Healthy things can't help but grow. Healthy organisms just grow. And so if you just focus on the health of the thing and doing all the right things, it will grow. Maybe not as fast as you want it to, or maybe not in the way that you want it to, but it will grow. Because healthy things just, like, can't help but grow.

[Becky]

Hey, friends. It takes a lot to power a movement as mighty as the impact uprising. And we couldn't do it without We Are for Good's Value aligned partners.

[John]

Yeah, you're right. Our partners make it possible for us to keep showing up with free education tools, series summits and resources because they believe like we do, that investing in people and community creates real, lasting change.

[Becky]

So if you're looking for a trusted partner to help you find a new tech solution, a CRM or maybe a new direct mail strategist, or you're even looking for an entirely new brand partner, start here. We've curated a direct line for your VIP access to these groups. Just by saying you're with We Are for Good.

[John]

Yeah. Big gratitude to our ecosystem partners at Donor Doc, Feather, RKD Group and Whiteboard. They're not just partners, they're walking alongside us to build something better and more inclusive.

[Becky]

Head to we are for good.com SL to explore our go to tools and humans doing this great work. Lock arms for impact and put more fuel back into this community. That's weare for good.com recs now back to the show.

[John]

So sage, especially for our friend in Canada, the guy. Just think of your winters. It's like that are so long, you know, like, but holding out that this is not forever. Like it does come back. Like the plants will come back. They're. They're under there surviving.

[Becky]

And I actually really like this. This thought about consistency. These habits really build upon each other and I really like this. Consistency compounds notion. Like if we can take this to someone who's working, whether it's in fundraising or marketing or donor relations or events, annual giving, I feel like this could apply across the board. What kind of routines or practices could individuals and teams adopt to make sure that this consistent engagement happens with their donor base? Can you lob us a couple ideas?

[Mike Dirksen]

Yeah. Yeah. You're a fantastic example of consistency compounding, like showing up three times per week, whether you felt good or not good or sad or happy, or like y' all just showed up every single week. Three times per week. And it's been five years now for. For We Are for good. Right. And I don't know if you imagined where you would be five years ago.

[Becky]

Oh my gosh, these have been dog years. It feels like 50. But yes, and I've. And I've loved them. But also yes.

[Mike Dirksen]

But yeah, in terms of cadence, we talk a lot about. We call it the fundraising flywheel. It doesn't have to be called that. That's just what we call it, which is getting in a rhythm of listening to donors, engaging them in as much one to one or one to few as possible. So it doesn't have to be one to one. It can be one to few. But really doing stuff where there's a bit of a two way. It's not just you yelling at the void, it's a bit of a two way. It can be town halls or webinars or getting together and doing stuff together. So that's listening to donors, engaging donors, then asking. Asking is a big part of it. But it's only 20% of this equation. It's, it's 1/5 of the flywheel. Celebrating really well. Philanthropy is really, really good for humans. It is good physiologically. Our bodies actually feel a heck of a whole lot better when we give. It's, it's actually a healing thing to do. And so we should celebrate that. We should, we should celebrate that. It's a good thing. Like we celebrate taking care of ourselves and like we celebrate rest and like we celebrate, you know, all these other health hacks. So we should celebrate giving as the same and making, making people feel good about their giving and affirmed and seen. Reporting back, this is a very, very consistent, if you can have one very consistent cadence. It's just every month reporting back a little bit to donors on what's happening and being like, see, things are happening. Because your brand as an organization is not your logo, it's not your tagline. It's not like it's always just how people think about you when you're not in a room. And how about about you when you're not in the room? And so how do you become a trusted organization? Trust is built by making promises and keeping them and reporting back is basically you saying, we asked you for money, you gave. Something good is happening. We asked you for money, we said something good would happen if you would give something good is happening. It doesn't have to be like incredible, like feats of victory. It can be just small wins. But we all want to feel like we're making progress in this thing together. And honestly, you are making progress as an organization. If you're not, you should shut your doors down and you probably would. So just like let, let people know good things are happening. It's you keeping a promise and it's you building a very trusted brand. And recessions, crises, uncertain times, doesn't matter. Everybody who makes it through those stronger than before is trusted brands because they, A consistency, they were consistently showing up before the crises and B, in the crises, who are you going to give to probably the people you trust the most. Probably not like some unknown entity. Like very likely you're going to give to the people that you trust the most. Because in uncertain times, we all crave certainty. And so reporting back. And then that's the cycle you can start all over again. Listen, engage, ask, celebrate, report. Listen, engage, ask, celebrate, report. And we run that whole flywheel a few times throughout the year with some of our clients, but you don't have to run it as frequently, as long as you do it consistently.

[John]

I mean, I love your call out for the reporting piece specifically because we talked about the power of believers. And the reality is not everybody that's in your file, I'll use your word, Mike is a believer. Some people are. This guy may have been given $50 to see what happens. Or maybe somebody just got connected through a friend and they supported a memorial gift or something like that. And doing these practices, though, we have found, can help take somebody from transactional to a believer. And I've seen it like in such tangible terms that actually being that consistent, trusted force and connecting their gift to impact, like, this is how it happens. This is how the sausage is made proverbially in the shops. Because over time, when you do that at scale, you've got a lot of people that believe that my gift makes a difference here. And that's how it compounds doing that over and over and over again.

[Mike Dirksen]

So.

[Becky]

And I also think, like, if it's good news, if it's progress, if it's something to celebrate, I don't know about you all, but I. The, the joy is not the predominant thing that's going through my feed right now, on my phone, on my news, on, you know, what media I'm streaming. And so we have this unique ability to be this little dopamine hit that's like, oh, that feels good. Oh, I'm glad I was a part of that. Oh, I'm glad that I and 2000 of people I don't even know came together to make this thing happen. And then what do you do? You chase that. And I think having a drumbeat of that. And I don't want to say, I want to be really clear that I'm not saying to Norman Rockwell this, where you just put out your good news. Because I think this whole notion that you talked about early on with your CEO and this nine word email is like, people just want to know what's going on. They want to know what the needs are. They want to know what the story of now is. And I think Peppering that in and just having that again, that drumbeat, that compounded consistency is something that is going to stand out and going to build not only tuba believers, but guess what? Those. Your fans are going to share that. And that's how your fans start to acquire new donors on your behalf. And you did it through retention, which I think is also a really brilliant move of what you're saying here, Mike.

[Mike Dirksen]

Yeah. And what an incredible job, Right? Like, we get to serve a market of needs, not a market of wants. And so we actually get to, like, in your inbox and in your feed instead of selling you stuff that you don't need. And I don't mean to disparage that at all, but we get to be like, we get to be merchants of joy, right? We get to be like, there's real problems in the world. There are big problems in the world, but guess what? You're entirely not powerless about. About it. There's actually something you can do, and we're gonna let you know, like, the progress that you're making together. Right. Small victories over time. And what a wonderful thing to reaffirm somebody that they're giving was a smart choice. It was a good decision, and it was effective. Right?

[Becky]

Amen.

[John]

Mike, we like you so much. This is why you're so gifted at what you do. It feels doable. You know, we've kind of had fun with this Hold Fast series asking for our guest to bring some homework to our listeners. So what are some questions or maybe next steps based on the conversation we've had today that could really carry the ripple of this? How can we apply this into our. Into our work?

[Mike Dirksen]

Yeah. So maybe the homework might be something super tactical that hopefully will help your fundraising a little bit, which is. I would pull a list, I would spend a bit of time in your CRM block, a bit of time on the calendar, see who has made at least three gifts to your organization and who hasn't made a gift, let's say, in 18 months. So they haven't made a gift between 18 to 24 months, but their last gift was right before that. And they have at least three gifts on file. So those are fairly committed donors. At least three gifts on file, and it's been 18 months since they haven't made a gift. So they're dropping off. So there's been a bit of a disconnect there. They may not even realize that they have made a gift in 18 months. They might still love you. They might be getting all your emails, they might be getting your Stuff they might love you and not even realize that they haven't made a gift in 18 months. But that cohort of people is a very valuable cohort and you should reach out to them. This month. You can make it a nine word email, you can make it a postcard, you can make it a phone call, you can make it a ringless voicemail. Super easy to do. You record a voicemail on your iPhone as a voice note. Then you go to slybroadcast.com I just.

[Becky]

Learned about this tool. It is brilliant. It just shows up and without a ring I'm like, yes, thank you. And it's transcribed. Thank you. Apple iPhone. Like it is the easiest, most amazing thing. Keep going.

[Mike Dirksen]

Yeah. And it's, and it's not a. The aversion. Sometimes the robocalls, which I have aversion to them as well. But they're so weird because your phone rings and you pick it up and you have an expectation to talk to humans and you're not, you're just listening to a recording, a ringless voicemail. The context is I'm going to listen to a voicemail. There's no expectation that I'm going to be talking back to somebody. And so ringless voicemails are a huge arsenal in your toolbox that you can use. So that's the homework. I love that people who've had a few gifts on file and who are just like lapsing like 18 months haven't made a gift. Let's reach out to those folks and maybe even let's just go, hey, I just wanted to check in. How are you? How are you with all of this?

[Becky]

Yes, in the good times and the bad, we should be checking in. That's how people know we care. I thank you for such a very specific tactic. I think that that was really, really helpful and, and listeners come back to us, let us know what happens. For those of you who really take this activation, we want to know the stories that come out, I would even say drop into people's DMs. You know, great connection tools that John and I have found is the one minute like 60 second voicemail feature on LinkedIn. Like it is unbelievable how in 60 seconds you can connect. Actually they don't even give you 60 seconds. Pretty sure they give you 59 right before they cut you off. So I think that, I think the point is well made that we need to connect. We need to look at the way people connect with us, find those mediums, reach out and I think you're going to be really surprised at how that intentionality, that consistency and that humanness is going to translate into action into your organization in many ways, not just the financial ways. Mike, you've been on the podcast enough to know we're going to put a bow on it with a one good thing. What would you say is your one good thing, sort of as it relates to this topic today?

[Mike Dirksen]

Yeah, we're about to enter the age of AI. Everything. We're already there, but it's going to accelerate an incredible amount in the next 12 months. I'm a big fan of AI. We're trying to play around with it and use it as much as we can, but so is everyone else. And I think it's going to be so easy to. Maybe I'm going to bite my words. I think it's going to be so easy to win in fundraising by doing the most human thing ever, like going forward, because you're going to be competing with a lot of bottom of the barrel sort of tactics. And not that I think it's a competition, but that's what's going to be out there, both nonprofits and from other companies. And so I just think the one good thing is just think about what is the most human thing we can do. Can we gather with people every now and again? Can we do stuff together? Can we, can we do more handwritten touchpoints? Can we do more 60 second LinkedIn voicemails? What human stuff can we do when it's very clear that AI cannot do this and just lean into that? And I think it's going to be a huge boon. We're certainly doing that already and planning on doing a lot more of it. And in our case, we're doing small dinners, like eight to 10 people. And, you know, there's a whole thing there that we can talk about sometime, but using that as a growth tactic.

[John]

But yeah, yeah, it feels like I appreciate your lens because I do think we're uniquely set up to own this moment. You know, it's not just about optimized to the end. It's like, about getting humans involved in this really vital mission that we're fighting for. And so centering our humanity in that is absolutely the way. Mike, how can people connect with you? Work with buildgood, Go to all the buildgood things like connect us to your work and where you hang out online. Besides, we know LinkedIn. We love that.

[Mike Dirksen]

Yeah. If people like listening to podcasts, there's the BuildGood fundraising podcast. You can find that. And then probably the most helpful thing that we do for most organizations is the buildgood Academy. We jump on Zoom a bunch of times throughout the week and we help you out with your fundraising. Very human. You're with a human.

[John]

He's not a bot.

[Mike Dirksen]

Yeah, yeah. It's not a self paced course or anything like that. It's just like we jump on Zoom a few times per week and you'll. And so do other organizations. Everybody learns from each other and that's [e-mail] academy. That's probably the best way that we can be helpful.

[Becky]

We will definitely amplify and support and applaud that because anytime we're learning in community from each other, that's where. Where the joy and the good stuff comes from. So, Mike, just sitting with you is always a joy. Learn so much. Have my mind expanded. Godspeed on your beautiful work. Thank you for coming in here and just giving us so much hope and activation as you always do. Just adore you.

[Mike Dirksen]

Oh, thank you so much. I'll come back anytime you have me.

[Becky]

Open door, open mic for you, my friend.