648. Unlock Your Board’s Potential: Accountability, Succession, and Engagement - Christal Cherry

Summary

We Are For Good Podcast – Episode 648: Unlock Your Board’s Potential: Accountability, Succession, and Engagement with Christal Cherry
Date: September 24, 2025
Host(s): Jon McCoy, CFRE and Becky Endicott, CFRE
Guest: Christal Cherry – Founder & CEO, The Board Pro; Founder & Chair, F3 Fabulous Female Fundraisers

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Episode Overview

In this energizing and wisdom-packed episode, hosts Jon and Becky sit down with nonprofit board expert Christal Cherry to discuss actionable ways nonprofit leaders can boost board engagement, accountability, and succession. Christal draws on her deep experience as a consultant, board member, and founder, sharing why board work is fundamentally about relationships—and why intentionally creating a culture of connection, clarity, and fun is the secret to unlocking a board’s real potential.

Key topics include concrete tools for engaging and activating boards, strategies for overcoming disengagement, fostering accountability, recruiting value-aligned board members, navigating tough conversations, and succession planning. Christal’s signature warmth, candor, and humor shine as she reframes board service as a deeply human, joy-fueled commitment—especially crucial in today’s challenging climate.

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Highlights & Key Insights

1. Step One: Get Passionate, Get Personal, Get Giving

[04:26 – 05:54]

• Christal’s #1 tip for board engagement is direct and practical: every board member should give—and consider stretching further during critical times.

  • Quote:
    “If you’ve not yet made your own personal gift, now is the time. And even if you’ve made your own personal gift, make a stretch gift… because this time, we are in critical times right now. Our nonprofits are struggling. Our CEOs and executive directors are burnt the hell out and they need you, they need us. They need their boards to step up and support them more now than ever.”
    — Christal Cherry [04:28–04:48]

• Remind boards: Showing up with gifts—beyond the minimum—demonstrates commitment and sets the tone for fundraising.

• “Throw in your Starbucks money” or other small luxuries as an extra gesture of support.

• Abundance Mindset: Despite tightened funding, Christal believes “the money is out there” and challenges boards to do the collective work to access it.

2. Fear Is Normal—Don’t Let It Stop You

[05:54 – 07:57]

• Many board members hesitate to fundraise out of fear or discomfort. Christal reframes this:

  • Fear is outweighed by genuine passion for the mission.
  • Not everyone will be a frontline asker, but everyone has a role (connector, ambassador, advocate, thanker, etc.).
  • Quote:
    “Stop letting fear get in the way… My passion for that mission trumps that. So, when I start feeling, oh, these little butterflies, that's nothing compared to people who are living on the street. They need our support. So my little butterflies in my stomach is nothing compared to that.”
    — Christal Cherry [06:04–06:34]

• Know Your Board: Understand strengths and comfort zones, then match roles accordingly. Let connectors connect, influencers promote, and askers ask.

3. Banishing Board Disengagement—Make It Fun & Relational

[08:05 – 12:10]

• Disengaged boards don’t always signal a problem with members themselves—it’s often about missing opportunities for meaningful engagement.
  • “We can make board work fun. We can make it something that people actually look forward to.” — Christal Cherry [08:50]
• Engagement goes far beyond attending meetings and reading bylaws. Opt for:
  • Volunteerism at programs and events
  • Writing thank-you notes, calling donors
  • Participating in community events or organizational activities
  • Personal Touch: Making it fun and rewarding keeps board members excited and ready to show up.
• Both staff and boards must bridge the engagement gap—a two-way street.
• Quote:
  “The onus is on the organization to find ways to keep them excited and engaged. They will do it. If they like it, right? If it's something they enjoy, feel reward from, they will do it.”
  — Christal Cherry [10:50–11:06]

Memorable Example:

• Christal shares her own experience at the YMCA: reading children's books in the nursery, volunteering at races, training new board members, bringing friends—showing that true engagement is about finding and cultivating connection points.

4. Accountability: Follow Through & The “Drumbeat” of Board Communication

[15:37 – 20:50]

• Accountability isn’t about nagging, but about building relationships and mutual respect.

• Tangible Practices:

  • Regular reminders (email, text, calendar invites)
  • Small gestures (personalized folders, birthday cards, knowing favorite colors)
  • Repeated communication before meetings/events
  • Having a designated board relations role (if resources allow) makes a big difference

• Quote:
  “Your board are stakeholders, they're volunteers, and you have to cultivate relationships with them just like you would any other group. It's a relationship business. They have to feel like—'you see me beyond being the ATM machine'…”
  — Christal Cherry [16:53–17:06]

• Get to Know Your Board: Invest in the small but meaningful details. People show up when they feel seen and valued.

• Thorough Onboarding: Provide role descriptions, expectations, calendar of events, culture statements, and more.

5. Recruitment: Vision, Values, and Who You Are Now

[21:50 – 24:56]

• Board recruitment isn’t just about skills—it's about alignment with mission, values, and organizational needs.

• Visioning Session: Begin by clarifying the board’s current identity and future direction.

  • Who are we now?
  • What have we learned?
  • What do we need in this season?
  • Who do we need by our side?

• Quote:
  “Board work has really changed and we need you to lean in. We do not need seat warmers at this time. If you cannot participate or contribute and it's not a good time for you—step down and give the seat to someone else.”
  — Christal Cherry [24:46–24:56]

• Seek bold, values-driven members ready to think, collaborate, and occasionally weather tough storms.

6. Transparency: Communicating Hard News & Triaging Challenges

[27:17 – 28:47]

• Do not sugarcoat or avoid negative news; radical honesty is a leadership imperative.
• Quote:
  “No, I think the only way to go is truth…Let everyone know, you know, that we, we. We need the doors closed. We are about to get into some tough topics, and I need everyone to lean in and pay attention right now… just be honest and transparent about whatever it is.”
  — Christal Cherry [27:17–27:50]
• Personal and organizational challenges are best faced together. Staff leaders: invite boards to share the load, offer opinions, and become true partners.

7. Succession Planning: Start Early—Don’t Procrastinate

[30:36 – 32:55]

• Begin conversations about leadership transitions long before they’re urgent.

• Ask, “Who’s your number two?” and actively groom future leaders.

• Quote:
  “Please don’t wait until the last minute and now run around scrambling trying to find folks… You should be molding and shaping whoever could be a number two now.”
  — Christal Cherry [30:36–31:43]

• Plan messaging to staff, board, and funders about transitions to maintain stability.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Human-Centered Board Culture:
  “You have to engage them. You have to give them things that they can do, ways that they can integrate into your nonprofit’s life. And you have to equip them. These people—who comes to a board with a PhD in board work?… No one.”
  — Christal Cherry [18:26–18:54]

• On Making Board Members Feel Seen:
  “When people actually feel like you see us… That matters when you start your board meeting like that.”
  — Christal Cherry [16:33–16:46]

• Radical Connection as a Theme:
  “My board, our theme is radical connection… If I don’t hear from [someone], or they’ve been quiet, I’m watching and observing. I’m going to call you and say, ‘Hey, just wanted to check to make sure everything was okay.’”
  — Christal Cherry [34:19–34:43]

• On Shared Ownership and Feedback:
  “I’m letting them know I hear you. I’m giving you an opportunity to lean in on something that’s important… and what you have to say matters.”
  — Christal Cherry [36:13–36:20]

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Segment Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment / Topic | |------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:26 | Board giving & personal investment | | 05:54 | Overcoming fear of fundraising; matching strengths to roles | | 08:05 | Diagnosing and fixing disengaged boards; making board work fun | | 15:37 | Accountability & relationship-building; the importance of a board liaison | | 21:50 | Best practices for thoughtful board recruitment & visioning | | 27:17 | Communicating tough news and triaging with transparency | | 30:36 | Succession planning—how to start early and prepare | | 34:19 | “One Good Thing”: Radical connection as everyday practice | | 36:13 | Involving the board in projects—campaigns, Giving Tuesday, etc. | | 37:20 | Final reflections: Boards as communities, boards as fun! | | 37:53 | Where to find Christal online & the new podcast |

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Actionable Takeaways

• Audit Board Giving: Ensure every board member has contributed recently—and encourage stretch gifts and new ways to give.
• Map Board Strengths: Survey board members about their comfort with fundraising, advocacy, logistics, etc. Place them where they’ll thrive.
• Re-energize Collaboration: Add interactive, fun, or mission-facing elements between (not just during) meetings.
• Personalize Engagement: Thank members with personalized notes, check in when they’re less active, and share small surprises.
• Elevate Recruitment: Hold visioning sessions; prioritize values and capacity for engagement over resumes.
• Practice Transparent Leadership: Invite boards into tough conversations early—with honesty and clear calls to action.
• Plan Succession: Never wait for a crisis. Identify and nurture next-generation leadership regularly.
• Live “Radical Connection”: Monitor, check in, and care for your people—human-to-human, not just role-to-role.

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Where to Find Christal & Resources

• Podcast: The Board Shake Up (Fridays on Spotify)
• LinkedIn: Christal Cherry
• Instagram: @theboardpro
• Facebook: The Board Pro
• Other: F3 Fabulous Female Fundraisers community and resources

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This episode is an energizing masterclass in nonprofit board leadership—an essential listen (or read!) for anyone seeking not just a productive board, but a joyful, resilient, and deeply connected one. Christal gives practical scripts, a values-based framework, and an unapologetically human tone to the work of board service.

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“It’s not rocket science. This is human to human engagement—and it can be fun.”
— Jon McCoy [37:40–37:42]

Transcript

[A]

Hey, friends. Impact Up Pause is coming back on October 9, 2025. It's a worldwide gathering of change makers to restore energy, set boundaries that stick, and deepen the connections that fuel both our missions and our well being. You can join us in more than 25 cities, at meetups and online to reframe your relationship with work and perfection, to build wellness into your life and organization, and simply to pause, reflect, and take intentional action. Sign up for free [e-mail] ImpactUp. We can't wait to see you there. Hey, I'm John.

[B]

And I'm Becky.

[A]

And this is the We Are for Good podcast.

[B]

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more, and be more for the causes that improve our world.

[A]

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

[B]

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers, and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

[A]

So let's get started. Oh, my gosh. We cannot contain our excitement right now.

[B]

The 3P is back in the house.

[C]

She's here.

[A]

Y'.

[D]

All.

[A]

We are so thrilled to have our friend back joining us today. This is Crystal Chair. You may recognize her laugh because she is a mover and a shaker. She's the founder and CEO.

[D]

Hi.

[B]

Hi, friend.

[A]

Founder and CEO of the board Pro. She's the founder and chair of F3 Fabulous Female Fundraisers. Crystal has been an integral part of We Are For Good since our story, I'd say in the first couple of weeks of launching the podcast. I remember us prepping for this conversation at Evoke Coffee in downtown Edmond. And we're like, okay, we're about to talk to this amazing board professional. Do we have all of our ducks in a row? We're so nervous. We're just starting the podcast.

[B]

Foster Syndrome. Bubbling.

[E]

Yes.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

And Crystal Cherry walks in as episode 13. And now we're in the 600-8, right? She's our phone, a friend in all things bored. And when you get to sit in her midst and hear her teach, you're going to know exactly why she has changed our community in the most positive ways. But she's back today because she is launching a brand new podcast called the Shake Up Podcast.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is in collaboration with our friends over at Little Bit of Good. Yes, friends, thank you for creating this space. But she's going to continue Sharing strategies for building high performing boards, strong nonprofit leadership. I know this is the things that y' all want in this community because we hear from y' all all the time about this.

[B]

You all have lifted several questions that we think are so applicable. So we're going to be talking about disengage boards to getting members to follow through actually on commitments to volunteer engagement, succession planning. You get the idea. So she the queen of understanding how to get your board to do something other than just warm that chair and say I. So Crystal is going to give us that practical, tactical advice. She's going to help you get unstuck to take action right away. We are so glad you're here and you are a podcast host now. I just love watching your evolution, my friend.

[E]

Welcome back. Thank you.

[D]

I am so glad to be back with you guys after these years. You guys have been so supportive and I love the impact you're having in our sector. I love that you interact with so much, so many different leaders in our sector and you encourage us and you get us to do things and be active and come together. I mean, I just love all that y' all are doing. So you guys have me forever. You can't kick me out. I'm sorry.

[B]

We're supposed to be your hype squad, so thank you for that, my friend. I. I think that this is just a topic that is really bubbling to the surface for a lot of nonprofits right now. We're getting into year end and I, I hope that everyone understands that this is not a solo game Going into year end, you're going to need a big bench and a team of people that are helping us get to those goals. So we want to dive right in to that fundraising on the board and volunteer engagement side. So we had one listener, Crystal, that shared they really needed some tactical strategies for fundraising and engaging both their board and their volunteers, and in particular, especially how to activate their most passionate supporters. So tell us how boards can step up and support these efforts right now.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[E]

The first thing they can do is.

[D]

Make their own donation.

[C]

Right?

[E]

Okay, There you go. You know, if you've not yet made your own personal gift, now is the time. And even if you've made your own personal gift, make a stretch gift. Like if you've done your $500 donation or your thousand dollar gift for the.

[D]

Year, go ahead and add another 250.

[C]

Right.

[D]

Because this time we are in critical times right now. Our nonprofits are struggling. Our CEOs and executive directors are burnt the hell out and they need you, they need us. They need their boards to step up and support them more now than ever. And money is tight.

[C]

Right?

[D]

Look, I'm the queen of abundance. I have a mindset of abundance that there's always enough money for all of us. But the reality is, right now, with all the cuts that have been happening, our nonprofits are struggling. So I believe the money is out there, but I believe we need to do a better job of going to get it.

[E]

So the first thing I say is, if you've not made your gift, make it.

[D]

And if you've made your gift, add a stretch gift, a couple extra hundred dollars, just to let them know we got your back. We know it's hard right now. I'm going to throw in my Starbucks money, throw in my.

[E]

Right. All the things that we splurge on.

[D]

I'm going to go ahead and throw that in and just let you know that I'm here to support you. So that's. The first thing, is to make sure that you have skin in the game and that you actually have made your own donation.

[E]

The second thing is stop letting fear get in the way of what needs.

[D]

To happen to support your organization.

[E]

All of us who raise money, we.

[D]

Feel a little scared and nervous. We have the little butterflies in our stomach when we go to ask people for some money. But you know what trumps that? My passion for what I'm doing, right? My passion for that mission. I want to make sure that these kids have what they need after school. I want to make sure that those who are homeless are getting the support that they need so they can become.

[E]

Stable, like all of that.

[D]

So when I start feeling, oh, these little butterflies, that's nothing compared to people who are living on the street. They need our support. So my little butterflies in my stomach is nothing compared to that.

[E]

So I'm going to. I'm going to tighten my shirt, fix my shoulders, and walk in, and I'm.

[D]

Going in to ask for what this organization needs. I say stop letting the fear stop. Stop you from what needs to happen.

[E]

Okay? And I get it. Everyone is not a fundraiser.

[D]

Everyone doesn't feel comfortable making the ask. And that is okay.

[E]

So what I suggest to my board chairs and my CEOs is find out.

[D]

The strengths and weaknesses of the people on your board.

[E]

There are some people who, like me.

[D]

Who will just go in and say.

[E]

I'm not scared of the word no.

[D]

And I'm going to go for it. I'm going to go in and I'm going to ask right I'm just going to like, there's three people I standing over there. I'm gonna go ask somebody for some money right now. Like, you need those people who are not fearful, who are going to go out there and be up front front facing right.

[E]

And then there are some people who say, you know what, not really feeling.

[D]

Comfortable asking, but I can connect you all day long.

[E]

Like, goodness, I have like so many.

[D]

Friends and influences on social media.

[E]

People I go to church with, people.

[D]

Who I work out at the gym with. I'll connect you. I will find out who might be interested in this mission.

[E]

And then they have some, you know what?

[D]

I will be your ambassador. I will rah rah you all day long.

[E]

I'll share and post and repost on social media, you know, like, so you got to find out the strengths and.

[D]

Weaknesses of your board members to see.

[E]

Who can step in to fill in.

[D]

Some of those gaps. And it's okay if they're not frontline fundraisers, but they can help in other ways.

[A]

Yeah, I love how you are just so non nonsense and just like, let's get in there, you know, I think is half the battle.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And these are people that have already raised their hand to be of service, to pour in at a deep level. So this is an invitation that should be out there. Like, this should be normal and they should be expected of this. Can we talk for a second about disengaged boards? Because I don't want to point fingers, but we've been in organizations before where your board seems like they're just coming to check a box. And it's not that they're there because. And I don't want to say that it was their fault. I do want to say like, this could be something that maybe we're not doing. How do you tackle disengaged boards? What are some ways to pull people out of that? How do we re energize a board that maybe is a little stagnant? Maybe they're not helping out with different things or maybe they're not showing up to meetings. How do you move from disengaged to on fire?

[D]

Yeah.

[E]

So, you know, we can make board work fun. We can make it something that people actually write, something that people look for forward to. It's not just about bylaws. It's not just about the budget.

[D]

Yes, it is about those things for sure. You need to know the budget, you need to look at the bylaws, you need to know the strategic plan, all those things, all the governance formalities. You need to do.

[E]

But there are other things you can.

[D]

Do to get involved in the life of the organization outside of the board meeting.

[E]

The board might meet four times a year, right? But what are you doing in between those times? You just hope, chill and watch that Everyone loves Raymond. No, you need to be, you need to be at the after school program.

[D]

You need to go out on those.

[E]

Visits with your CEO as he or.

[D]

She are talking to funders.

[E]

You need to be writing those thank you letters. You need to be calling donors and volunteers to thank you for their time. There are things that you can be doing in between and the responsibility. It's a balancing act.

[D]

The CEO needs, or the director of.

[E]

Development or whoever it is needs to.

[D]

Let the board know what help they need.

[E]

So they need to come halfway. And then the board member needs to call and say, hey, listen, I'm off.

[D]

Next Wednesday, took a day off.

[E]

What do you need? Can I come down and help with anything? So it has to be a balancing act where the board and the CEO.

[D]

Is responsible for letting them know what ways that they can be engaged outside of board meetings.

[E]

But if you make it fun to me, like I'm on the board of the ymca, right? And yeah, it's a board, but I'm down there, I'm volunteering. They got basketball games going. I'm on, I'm rah rah. We just had a race not too long ago. I'm out at the race, helping to set up booths. Like they've made it a way for me to feel like this is something.

[D]

For me to do good work in, right? They've given me opportunities for me to engage in the life of the organization outside of just being a board member. I've made my donation.

[E]

That's great.

[D]

I've brought a couple people on the board.

[E]

I actually help train their new board.

[D]

Members when they come on.

[E]

But they've given me things and ways.

[D]

That I can get involved with the.

[E]

Organization outside of the board meeting. And so the onus is on the organization to find ways to keep them excited and engaged. They will do it. If they like it, right? If it's something they enjoy, feel reward from, they will do it. I have a children's book.

[D]

I go down to the ny, they.

[E]

Have a little nursery so that people can leave their kids there. That's so funny. You had it right there. So yeah, so they have a little nursery where people can drop their kids off while they go work out. So what do I do? I take my children's book and I.

[D]

Go to the nursery. And I read it right.

[E]

It's just something I could do. Like, the kids are crawling all over me. Half of them may not even understand what I'm saying. And that's okay, but I'm giving back. Some people are pointing at the pitches. Oh, look at the ball. Look at this. And I'm like, oh my God, this.

[D]

Is so wonderful and amazing.

[E]

So there are just ways that you.

[D]

Can get involved and the board needs to lean in and find out how.

[E]

And if you.

[D]

And if your CEO or your executive director is not saying, sharing those things.

[E]

With you, call them and ask them. I will call my executive director at.

[D]

The Y and say I have a free warning next Thursday. What do you need? You need me to come down and.

[E]

Do anything and sure enough, you'll have something for me to do. Even if it's like packing boxes or moving something, just sitting at the front desk welcoming people when they come in. Whatever it is, I will do that. And it just helps me to feel.

[D]

So when the board meeting is coming, I'm looking forward to coming because I've.

[E]

Been to a few of the events.

[D]

I've interacted with some folks who are coming in from the community. Like, I'm excited and connected. So I know I have some things to say at the board meeting.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

Crystal, I want to compliment you for a way that you have helped me reframe completely the way that I look at boards. I had a very old school mentality before I met you and before I had, you know, had all these conversations and we are for good about the currency that a board brings to an organization and to me in my very Limited thinking. And I'm calling myself out. It was, they're going to make a gift and they're going to show up at these meetings and they're going to have influence. And you completely shattered that notion in episode 13, which we're going to link it up in these show notes because it is such a good primer if you're really thinking about, how do I get my board engaged. But the currency of a board isn't just those two things. There are so many ways that boards can tap their gifts into an. An organization. And I do think that the intake of an onboarding is going to help you understand, where is their fear? Where is their joy? Where do they want to spend their time? Oh, they. They don't want to ask for money. Well, will they open a door? Because that's going to lead us into asking for it, or would you come with me and I'll make the ask? I think these are the things that help people feel more comfortable about their role. And I just think accountability or matters more than ever right now. And I just have to share, like, a quick little story. I'm working with the board right now trying to help them find some revenue, and they're having the worst time getting their board just sort of off of those. What I said, off their butts and out there opening doors. And so I just think this is a real common challenge right now that we can't just look past right now. And I think you have talked about this on the podcast about, hey, it's up to you organization to have a drumbeat where you're coming back to your board members. Even if it's every Tuesday morning. It's like, here's the things I need, or maybe Monday morning, here's the ways you can tap in, talk about this common challenge of getting board members to follow through on what they say they're going to do. How can leaders sort of encourage that accountability without straining the relation. What's your counsel there?

[E]

Yeah, I mean, I so wish that.

[D]

Organizations had it in their budget to have a board liaison or a director of board relations, because it really is a lot of work. It's a job. And I'm a board chair. I have 14 board members. Right. And I do everything I can to keep them excited and engaged.

[E]

You know, little things, you know, like everybody in their folder. When we had our board meeting last.

[D]

Week here in Atlanta, everyone got a birthday card.

[E]

If your birthday hasn't come yet, don't open it. If your birthday's already passed, open it right like, it's little things people are telling me, like, you know, their favorite colors. So, like, I'm making, like, I'm getting file folders and put all the documents in them. Oh, you like rna? I made sure I listened to people. So when they told me what their favorite colors, like, I put the DAG on files in there, and they noticed and they're like, oh, my God, Crystal, you are so thoughtful. You always try to make us feel so at home.

[D]

We know you see us. That matters when you start your board meeting like that, when people actually feel like you see us. And I know executive directors are busy, and I know CEOs are busy, and.

[E]

They'Re thinking, I have a whole staff.

[D]

That I have to manage.

[E]

I have a whole staff that I.

[D]

Have to make sure are doing what they're supposed to be doing.

[E]

But your board are stakeholders, they're volunteers, and you have to cultivate relationships with them just like you would any other group. It's a relationship business. They have to feel like.

[D]

You see me beyond being the ATM machine, right?

[E]

Yes.

[D]

We need you to help us raise money. We need to make a donation. Absolutely. You need to do that.

[E]

But what else? I mean, I'm a whole person with all, all kinds of talents and gifts and skills that I can bring to.

[D]

This board outside of just money.

[E]

Have you tapped into those things for me? Like, you know, everyone knows, like, I love color. I love purple.

[C]

Right.

[E]

And so it would be uncomfortable. Every gift you give me needs to be something with some purple in it. You know, if you do that, you.

[D]

Got me all day long.

[C]

Right.

[D]

So I'm just saying get to know your board members.

[E]

Get to know who they are, what makes them tick, why they serve on.

[D]

Your organization, you know, why they're passionate about your mission. Really feed into those small things that you think don't matter. They do. And people will see and feel that from you. So when.

[E]

Even when they have a board meeting.

[D]

And they don't feel like coming because maybe they had a rough day or it's a long day, I'm just going to blow it off today. You know what? I'm going today because I remember how Crystal made me feel on that last board meeting. And in fact, I'm going to go ahead and read the agenda so that I ready.

[E]

I was ready to participate. Where's that budget I needed to approve?

[D]

Let me go check that out.

[C]

Right.

[E]

People will. People will respond to the way you treat them. I know that sounds like, oh, God.

[D]

Could it be that simple?

[E]

It really, really is. It's a relationship business.

[D]

It's a relationship business. You have to engage them. You have to give them things that they can do, ways that they can, they can integrate into your nonprofit's life.

[E]

And you have to equip them. These people. Like who comes to a board with.

[D]

A PhD in board work? Tell me, tell me.

[B]

I would say you.

[E]

No one. Right. And so unless, you know, unless you've gone through some kind of specific training, most people come to a board even.

[D]

If they've served on a board before, because all boards are different.

[E]

They don't know what, what you need.

[D]

They don't know. So you need to make sure before they come on. Like you said, Becky, the onboarding process is thorough.

[C]

Right.

[D]

There's a board job description. There's an agreement that they must sign.

[E]

I add a culture statement.

[C]

Right?

[D]

Because these days we need to know, okay, micro and macro aggressions are not going to be permitted in this environment. We're not doing that. We're not doing that right now. So here's your board agreement, here's your board job description.

[E]

Here's the culture statement to let you know how we get down in our house.

[C]

Right.

[D]

So when you walk through the door.

[E]

Right here, here's the list of all.

[D]

The board meetings for the year.

[E]

Put it on your calendar.

[D]

Now, no excuse that you didn't know there was a board meeting, right?

[E]

Here are the events that are happening.

[D]

In the next quarter or the next six months.

[E]

Please let us know which of these.

[D]

Events you can attend.

[C]

Right.

[E]

Give them, give them the information to.

[D]

Allow them because people are busy.

[E]

Give them an opportunity to say, okay.

[D]

In January I could do this, in December I could do that.

[C]

Right.

[E]

And then a lot of follow up. I send lots of emails out.

[D]

I have my board members via text.

[E]

I'm sending them reminders. Hey guys, just remind of one minute board meeting in one hour. See you soon. Can't wait to see you. If you don't have the zoom link, let me know.

[D]

I'm texting it to you in addition to emailing it to you.

[E]

It's a lot of work on my part to try to make sure that people.

[D]

Oh, thank you for the reminder.

[E]

Oh, good.

[D]

Thank you for sending me via text because I didn't even have no. So it's a lot of work to constantly remind them. I mean, they are adults and they should. But a lot of times people are busy. It may not be the top thing on their mind that day. And so the constant reminders. Just a reminder.

[E]

Yes.

[D]

You gave them the board meeting. Date three months ago, they've forgotten. So that means you're going to have to send it last week, going to have to send it this week, and then you're going to have to send it this morning. Board meeting tonight at 6 o'. Clock. Can't wait to see you. Barbecue in the house or something.

[E]

You know, say something that's going to.

[D]

Get them excited about coming. But it is a lot of work. But you have to have someone who's dedicated to doing it.

[A]

I love that you've lifted this because I've thought about this a lot recently with how much stuff is automated in our life now and with the rise of AI, so much is like not even written by humans. You know, it's like you have both those things in elevation. So getting a humanized text from Crystal cuts through the noise. It's not like an auto pop up that we're trying to dismiss all these notifications. It's like, oh, Crystal's expecting to see me in an hour. Like it, it humanizes. It shows that you care in very small touch points. And this is great advice for any donor relationship. But of course our board members as well. Crystal, I got to tap you about recruitment because so many listening are also thinking, man, I would love to add a couple of new board members in the next year. What is some really great strategies for really identifying, you know, the right people to recruit and then like, what are the steps that you can do now to start laying the groundwork to bring somebody on in a really wonderful way that's complimentary for your organization and a win for them personally too.

[D]

Yeah, I mean, when I recruit for a client, it's a whole process. I mean, like, in fact, I just got a new client and we first start off with a visioning session.

[E]

So of course at first I meet.

[D]

The board members who want to bring me in and we talk a little bit.

[E]

But we have a visioning session with.

[D]

The board to really discuss who are we right now?

[E]

Like, who are we? You know, a lot of folks are rolling off. Those of you who are rolling off, what have you learned?

[D]

What are some things we could still grow in?

[E]

Like, I really kind of get it.

[D]

Get a real sense of a grounding of who this board is. Where do you want this organization to go in the next five years?

[E]

What is the role the board should play in that?

[D]

Have you guys done anything that perhaps you don't want repeated? Like, what have you learned from less?

[E]

Like, I'm really trying to understand who.

[D]

You are as an organization and who you need now and three years from now to help this organization continue to thrive.

[E]

And if you're not having those kind of conversations with yourselves, even if you don't bring in a consultant, if you don't sit down with one another and.

[D]

Say, who are we right now? Do we have the right people?

[E]

Who's missing, you know, what gaps do.

[D]

We need to fill?

[E]

But more importantly, what are our values.

[D]

Particularly in times like this?

[E]

Right? What are our values? Right, Abs?

[B]

I mean, never before are they more important than right now.

[E]

Right. Because organizations are being put to the test about what they're going to stand up for and what they're not. Are we going to change the language on our website or the pictures on.

[D]

Our website to make other people feel better or to make sure that we continue to get that, that grant every year? You know, what are we.

[E]

What are we willing to compromise and what are we willing to say? No, ten toes down.

[D]

We're not moving. We're not moving an inch on this one.

[C]

Right.

[E]

And so having those kind of conversations.

[D]

I think, is really important before you start recruiting, because now we know who you're looking for. This is a movement board. This is a board about movement. We're going to be bold. We're going to be audacious. We're going to stand on our mission that. I know who I'm looking for. I'm looking for folks just like that. I'm not looking for wimpy. I'm looking for.

[E]

Listen, right? Times are going to be hard, and we need board members who are going to be able to stand their ground and withstand the pressure from the public.

[D]

About whatever, particularly if you have. If your mission could be considered controversial, you know, if you're, you know, dealing with anybody who, families who are dealing with hiv, so their stakeholder groups are, you know, LGBTQ communities.

[E]

That's, you know, I have a client.

[D]

Right now, and they've been struggling for a while now because they're concerned about.

[E]

The safety, safety of their clients coming in and out of their clinics, of their staff.

[C]

Right?

[E]

How, you know, how should we put the names of our staff on our website?

[D]

Like, all those things now are things that we didn't have to think about before, but now because of safety reasons, these are things that boards are talking to their executive directors about.

[E]

We need people at the table who.

[D]

Can discuss those big issues now that.

[E]

Maybe 10 years ago we didn't have to talk about.

[C]

Right.

[D]

So we need thought partners.

[E]

It's not just coming in and doing some little light stuff. We need People who are willing to.

[D]

Make those brain cells turn right, come.

[E]

In, give us some real advice on.

[D]

What we need to do.

[E]

So board work has really changed and.

[D]

We need you to lean in. We do not need seat warmers at this time. If you cannot participate or contribute and it's not a good time for you.

[E]

Step down and give the seat to someone else.

[D]

Really true, Really.

[E]

I mean, this is life changing stuff.

[B]

I gotta piggyback on that because, you know, there is no way to sugarcoat the season of life that we're all experiencing right now, personally, professionally, just out in the world. And I think the importance of telling the story of now has never been more important. And you have got to have allies on your board to support what is actually happening in your nonprofit. If you are worried about the safety of your beneficiaries coming in, then that is a big, big issue that's going to require more than just the ED to stand up and sort of figure out a way that we can re engineer our safety protocols or our culture. I mean, we need strong board allyship standing behind us. And leaders, it is incumbent upon us to tell the truth and the realities about what our orgs are up against. What is our, what are our staff facing? What are the changes, you know, in revenue structure or executive orders? What is the impact on our mission, on the bottom line? And once you have shared that story, you are exactly right, Crystal. There has got to be an activation point. Once you share that story, you say board, this is where we need your help. And this really transitions into this really interesting question. We got that I think a lot of people have right now, which is triaging negative news to the board and how do you communicate that sort of very tough news, whether it's something that's impacted the organization, whether it's. We've had a, you know, a gap in our funding that we need to make up. What do you suggest? Because I gotta lift that you, you and Dr. Renee Rubinross, I think, have done some beautiful work with boards and specifically around values, around biases. And we know that those things exist within our board members. We all have different religious beliefs, political beliefs, things that we bring to the table that are nuanced. So talk about how to share that hard news and how do you get someone activated through that hard news? What would be your counsel?

[E]

No, I think the only way to go is truth.

[D]

Right?

[E]

We, we can, we can't sugarcoat it, you know, you know, set the tone.

[D]

Let that you know before we delve into these deep conversations. Let everyone Know, you know, that we, we. We need the doors closed. We are about to get into some tough topics, and I need everyone to lean in and pay attention right now. We'd love to be able to share good news, but sometimes we have news that's not so exciting and not so flattering, it could be scary. And so I really need you to lean in right now and hear what we're saying, you know, and just be honest and transparent about whatever it is.

[E]

And people will lean in because if.

[D]

They feel like you need my help, you need my help. You want my advice? You want my opinion? There's something I could do to make it better. If you come at them like that, as opposed to trying to backdoor it or try to sugarcoat it or make it be something that it's not, I think people are going to pick up on that, and you're going to lose the moment. This is the time now for you to take advantage of their ears, their attention. And these times that we're in, everybody knows it. So it's not like you know people. Well, hopefully people are not living in a bubble. Everyone knows that. These are times where everybody needs to lean in. But I think you need to be honest and transparent. If you're going through a challenge or you're going through, or you have some bad news to share or your organization is struggling, you need to let the board know where you are so that they can understand the seriousness of it and the depth of it and how they need to lean in to support you. Because it's not fair, as you, as one person, the ED or the CEO, to have to deal with that by yourself. It really just isn't. They don't pay you enough money.

[B]

And I'm glad you mentioned that, because I think the loneliness factor is a factor. And what we're trying to get people within this community to understand is that you do have a community. You do have a team and a bench, and they're ready to be called in.

[D]

Yes. A couple of years ago, I did a CEO coaching cohort where I think I have five CEOs, nonprofits in Connecticut, and they were all familiar with one another. But we're all struggling. And so we did four or five sessions together as a group. And it was just an opportunity for.

[E]

Them to come and share and share.

[D]

Ideas and lean on one another and.

[E]

Celebrate their wins and just having that space.

[D]

And so I say that if you're a CEO and executive director right now, you need to find your village. You really do, because it can feel Lonely and isolating. And you need a group who can rah, rah you when you need it and let you cry when you need to cry. Seriously. Because they understand your language.

[C]

Right.

[D]

And you may not be able to share that with the board, but you can share it with your comrades who are going through maybe similar things.

[A]

I mean, you know, you got kindred spirits over here. Community is everything. It's one of our values. It's the bedrock of you starting F3 that that gets together. Women that understand each other, that can support each other locally and around the country. So love that we have a kinship with that. What about as we start to like, wind down? I think of this is unprecedentedly hard times. It's not going to be everybody's time to stay on our boards. Some people are going to roll off. It's going to create. Some people need to step back for different reasons. How can we be thoughtful about board succession planning? Like, what are some steps that we need to think about? How do we do that? Well, you know, how do we not hurt relationships, but do it in a really honoring way? What is. What's some takeaways from you on that?

[E]

Yeah. Well, I say start early.

[D]

If you know, you have boards or board chair or a CEO who is going to be rolling off or leaving soon, please don't wait until the last minute and now run around scrambling trying to find folks to. It should be.

[B]

It's just going to stress you out.

[D]

It really is.

[B]

Don't do that to yourself, please.

[E]

Right. I mean, you know, right now I would. I always ask my CEOs, who's your number two? Like, if something happens to you, you're.

[D]

In the hospital or you're, for some reason you can't, you can't come in every day or you can't participate or lead.

[E]

Who at the organization right now do.

[D]

You feel comfortable giving that role to in your absence?

[E]

And when people say I don't have anyone, I'm like, that's concerning.

[D]

That's concerning.

[C]

Right.

[D]

You know, I worked at an organization where our Ed passed away suddenly and we were not prepared. And the board chair had to step in as the ED because it was sudden, no one expected it, and we were not prepared. He had been there for a long time, so no one ever thought he was ever going to leave. And when he passed away, everyone was scrambling.

[E]

That's the worst. But you should be molding and shaping.

[D]

Whoever could be a number two now. And if, you know, you've had a CEO Ed who's been there for 20 years, 15, 20 years. It's now time to start thinking about it and having that conversation.

[E]

And they should be ready to go.

[D]

At this point, 20 years, they should.

[E]

Be ready to go 20, 25 years. I'm sorry, give it to someone else.

[D]

Go sit on the beach and drink pina coladas all day and let some of these young folks come in.

[E]

But, yeah, no, I think to be.

[D]

Organized and prepared so that you're not caught off guard, you're not scrambling. Start getting your messaging together, right, about why this person is leaving, particularly if it's a CEO. If they're leaving of their own accord, I let them. You know, folks know early that they're going to be moving on to do greater things. You definitely want to. I mean, it's your whole plan, right? You have to talk to staff, you have to talk to your funders.

[E]

But I think you do so delicately.

[D]

And you come and you do it. So letting them know we have a plan in place so that people are not fearful and, and feeling weird about, oh, God, we're going to have a new CEO, we don't, we don't know who this, who this person is going to be. Is that going to change everything?

[E]

Which it will.

[D]

But I think how you prepare them and how organized you are really matters.

[B]

I think that board members want to rally around a really solid plan that is integrated and connected to their activation in it. And the beauty of that, friends, is that we can share the successes together. And I would even put on the back end, when we do have successes, go back and say thank you, share that impact. It's only going to feed someone to want to do more. So I think that like, number core value 6 here at we are for Good, like steward relentlessly. Because if someone is giving you their time and attention and whatever that currency is, whether it's making a gift, asking for the gift, opening the door, all of that is currency. And we need to recognize it and value it deep, deeply. So, Crystal, thank you for just an incredible wealth of information. You know, we're going to ask you a one good thing, but we're going to kind of narrow the focus on this one good thing because we want to know, like, what would be a one good way to activate your board today? It could be integrating them into your Giving Tuesday plan. It could be something around strategic planning or maybe you have a capital campaign going up or maybe to your point, before it's just picking up the phone and having board members call donors and thanking them, what would be your one good thing? To activate boards.

[E]

Yeah, I mean, so I, you know.

[D]

My board, our theme is radical connection.

[C]

Right.

[D]

And so for us, radical connection with one another.

[C]

Right.

[D]

To make sure I do that by.

[E]

Like, if I don't hear from. If someone's been absent or they've been.

[D]

Quiet, I'm watching and observing.

[E]

So if I.

[D]

We're in a board meeting and I notice you're not saying anything, with the last two board meetings, you've been quiet. I'm going to call you and say, hey.

[E]

Just wanted to check to make sure everything was okay.

[D]

I know you're usually very vocal, but you haven't said a whole lot these last two board meetings.

[E]

Is everything okay? And people will tell you, I lost.

[D]

My job, my mother's sick, whatever. You know, they just didn't feel comfortable speaking up.

[E]

But thank you for checking.

[D]

Thank you for calling. And I didn't think anybody really noticed. Yeah, I'm noticing.

[E]

And so, you know, in addition to birthday cards and just calling to check.

[D]

On people and letting people know I'm thinking about them, I had a board member said she's thinking about leaving her job and her resume is a mess. I just texted her this morning, send me your resume. Let me take a look.

[C]

Right.

[E]

Like, I'm not a career consultant, but, you know, I just, like, let me help. So I just think radical connection and caring for people. I know it sounds cliche, but it really does matter.

[D]

It really does help.

[E]

And then, yes, if there's a project.

[D]

That you have going on. We just launched F3. Just launched our first fundraising campaign, and we've been working on it for a few months. It's going to actually launch on October 1st. Right. Some landing pages done. I worked with Taylor Shanklin and her crew. They did our design. It's beautiful. Creative shizzle. Yeah, they did our stuff.

[E]

And all throughout the process, I kept.

[D]

The board apprised of where we were.

[E]

And that, you know, when the landing.

[D]

The first. The first sample of the landing page.

[E]

Came out, I sent it to them. What do you think?

[D]

Do you like it? Do you love it? And people gave me back, oh, I.

[E]

Think we should move this. We should add that.

[D]

We should move this word. We got don't forget to add tag, tax, deductible, blah, blah, blah.

[E]

And I was like, oh, my God.

[D]

Thank you so much for your input.

[E]

And then I went back and I did it. I made the changes to the website and then I sent it back and say, hey, guys, here's the revised website based on your feedback.

[C]

Right.

[E]

Like, so I'M letting them know.

[D]

I hear you. I'm giving you an opportunity to lean in on something that's important that we're working on and what you have to say matters.

[E]

Oh, I didn't think.

[D]

Maybe we should move the picture down. Maybe we'll move it down here.

[E]

Oh, no. Rather than stock pictures, we should have.

[D]

Pictures of real F3 people. Great idea.

[E]

So I'm letting them lean into something.

[D]

That we're working on together, giving them an opportunity to give feedback, to make changes.

[E]

And then I actually did it and.

[D]

Then went back and showed them that I did it. Right. Like, so they know. Oh, so Crystal's not making decisions about us in a bubble.

[C]

Right?

[D]

We don't get no say on how things go. No, absolutely. What you think and what you say matters, and I'm going to implement that and I'm going to make those changes.

[E]

And I see you.

[D]

So give them an opportunity to lean in on whether Giving Tuesday is coming up. This is the perfect time to get your void involved in Giving Tuesday to find out what kind of campaign you should have that first Tuesday after Thanksgiving. Right? Year end is coming up. That's another big thing that's coming up for. For all of us, all of our nonprofits. How can we get our boards? I have all kinds of blogs on how to get your boards involved in year end giving. So yes, this is the perfect time of year to get your board engaged. If they've been kind of absent or sleeping, it's time to wake them up.

[E]

And let them know, wake the hell up.

[D]

The year is about to end. I need you to get involved.

[A]

I mean, my friend, thank you for humanizing boards for us. These conversations leave me joyful. They leave me like, oh, we can do this. You know, this isn't rocket science. This is human to human engagement.

[D]

And it can be fun. It can be fun.

[A]

Yeah, it's so good. Could you point folks to where you hang out online? I think our friends listening are going to hear these resources. Tell us where to find the podcast. All these blogs you're dropping. Where do you hang out?

[E]

Crystal? Yeah, the podcast, the board Shake up.

[D]

Is on Spotify, so I'm very excited about that. We drop every Friday and the last couple ones have been amazing. So please go check us out. I think one of my favorites is the board CEO partnership that we just did two weeks ago. That was great. But last year we had Tesha McCord and Mallory. Mallory Erickson came and talked about wellness for nonprofit leaders. That was last Friday.

[E]

So, yeah, some good stuff.

[D]

Happening.

[E]

But you can find me on LinkedIn at, you know, Crystal Cherry and then.

[D]

At the Board Pro on Instagram and Facebook.

[B]

I think about the ways that you've come into this community. You've coached, you've supported, you've reframed, and I just thank you for everything you're doing for the sector, what you do for this community, and thank you for just being such a beautiful friend and ally of ours.

[D]

Thank you guys so much. I appreciate that. You, too. Back at.

[A]

Appreciate you.