650. Human-Centered Major Gifts: How to Build Your Pipeline - Tammy Zonker

Summary

Podcast Summary: We Are For Good Podcast

Episode 650: Human-Centered Major Gifts: How to Build Your Pipeline
Guest: Tammy Zonker, Founder and President of Fundraising Transformed
Date: October 1, 2025
Hosts: Jon McCoy, CFRE & Becky Endicott, CFRE

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Episode Overview

This episode addresses the pressing challenges nonprofit professionals face, focusing on how to build and sustain a major gifts pipeline using a human-centered approach. Special guest Tammy Zonker, a veteran fundraiser and consultant, joins to share her philosophy, experience, and actionable insights for both small shops and large teams. With nearly 30 years in the field and almost a billion dollars raised, Tammy’s emphasis is on authentic relationships, trust, equity, inclusion, and the “heroic” courage needed in modern fundraising.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Tammy’s Background & Why “Calling All Heroes” (04:20–09:30)

• Tammy shares her origin story, growing up in rural Indiana with deep empathy for others and a persistent heart for justice and perseverance.
• She introduces the concept behind her new book, Calling All Heroes, explaining her careful choice of language given potential negative connotations of "hero" in philanthropic circles.
  • Quote:

    “I am a white, cisgendered woman and I hold unearned privilege. And here I am writing about equity and inclusion and social justice. … The hero that I believe in… is rooted in courage and selflessness and integrity and inspiration and fairness. I really believe that each of us has the capacity to be an everyday hero.”
    — Tammy Zonker [06:16]

• She draws parallels to superheroes like Wonder Woman, emphasizing that heroism means courage and community, not saviorism.

Defining Human-Centered Fundraising (11:03–13:56)

• Five Pillars of Human-Centered Fundraising:
  • Listening: Practicing deep, empathetic, and ongoing listening, especially across lines of difference.
  • Asking with Empathy: Prioritizing curiosity and belief in others’ lived experiences.
  • Belonging: Creating spaces where everyone’s background is valued.
  • Learning & Rebuilding: Open to both unlearning and co-creating new approaches based on shared values.
  • Authentic Partnership: Practicing truth-telling, naming hard realities, and welcoming feedback.
• Tammy emphasizes learning from critique—including about her book title—from trusted, diverse colleagues.

The Trust Crisis & Opportunity in Major Gifts (14:39–19:51)

• Tammy discusses insights from the Edelman Trust Barometer: NGOs remain more trusted than government but lag behind corporations.
• In the current environment, major gifts are both crucial for financial sustainability and an opportunity to model trust-based, non-transactional engagement.
  • Quote:

    “Replacing those old transactional practices and models with true engagement, authentic partnerships based on trust and respect and shared purpose and partnership… means we are transparent. We tell the truth, even when it’s difficult. And if that donor doesn’t agree with us, they’re not our people.”
    — Tammy Zonker [16:01]

  • Shares a favorite quote by James Baldwin on boundaries regarding donor values and organizational alignment.

    “We can disagree and still love each other. Unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist.”
    — Read by Tammy Zonker [18:44]

Donor Pipelines: Moving Mid-Level Donors Forward (20:50–23:39)

• Tammy elevates the importance of mid-level donors, likening them to Jan Brady: often overlooked but full of potential.
• The key is to see, know, and treat donors as people—not data points.
  • Prioritize curiosity about their motives, dreams, and preferred way to engage.
  • Use technology (AI, surveys, small group events) to scale personal touch, but always blend with authentic human relationships.
  • Recognize not every donor wants in-person or high-touch engagement; design flexible journeys.
  • Quote:

    “Moving mid level donors up is just simply a matter of seeing them as people. … The first step... is curiosity, taking the time to really understand them, their motives and their journey with your organization.”
    — Tammy Zonker [21:04]

Advice for Small Shops & Overwhelmed Fundraisers (25:06–29:11)

• Both small and large teams are overwhelmed, but small shops are more agile and can experiment quickly.
• First step: listening. Block a small amount of time weekly for discovery calls—just one or two “purposeful conversations” can create a snowball effect.
  • Focus on open-ended questions about donors’ dreams and values, not pitches or asks.
  • Example questions:

    “If you could dream big with us, what would you want to see happen?... What’s the thing about our work that worries you the most? … What do you really want to make happen?”

• Replicate your impact by multiplying relationships with passionate community leaders; leverage their influence and expertise.

Human-Centered Storytelling & Impact (31:01–35:16)

• Tammy shares a moving story (with permission) of Jasmine, a client at Detroit’s Children’s Center, who turned personal tragedy into community generosity, using the last of an emergency fund to provide smoke detectors for other families.
  • Quote:

    “Would it be okay if we used that money to buy smoke detectors for other families at the children’s center?”
    — Jasmine (shared by Tammy) [34:00]

• Tammy and the hosts emphasize the importance of dignity, consent, and ethical storytelling:

  “You walked into this story by modeling dignity, ethical storytelling, and consent — all the pieces where Jasmine felt that psychological safety to share what she needed.”
  — Jon McCoy [34:25]

One Good Thing: A Call to Bravery (36:11–)

• Tammy’s closing wisdom:
  • Quote:

    “Be brave. Ask yourself, what one brave decision can I make today?”
    — Tammy Zonker [36:27]

• The hosts and Tammy reaffirm the power of empathy, presence, and human-scale connection as the path forward for transformative fundraising.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• “Each of us has the capacity to be an everyday hero.” — Tammy Zonker [08:19]
• “What’s critical in building those authentic trust-based relationships, of course, is replacing those old transactional practices and models with true engagement, authentic partnerships based on trust and respect and shared purpose.” — Tammy Zonker [15:36]
• “If their beliefs and values are not rooted in the work that we are doing and the beliefs and the values that we hold dear to our organization, their money’s no good here.” — Tammy Zonker [19:06]
• “Moving mid level donors up is just simply a matter of seeing them as people… The first step... is curiosity.” — Tammy Zonker [21:04]
• “Start one or two conversations a week and see where they go because we want to multiply you out there in the world…” — Tammy Zonker [28:28]
• “Be brave. Ask yourself, what one brave decision can I make today?” — Tammy Zonker [36:27]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Tammy’s backstory, empathy, book inspiration: 04:20–09:30
• Human-centered fundraising pillars: 11:03–13:56
• Trust in the nonprofit sector: 14:39–15:27
• Power dynamics & authenticity: 16:00–19:51
• Mid-level donor pipeline: 20:50–23:39
• Advice for small shops: 25:06–29:11
• Story of Jasmine and transformative generosity: 31:01–35:16
• Closing advice (be brave): 36:11–36:27

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Final Thoughts

Tammy Zonker’s approach reframes major gifts fundraising from a transactional to a deeply human endeavor. Her call for bravery, authentic listening, courageous alignment around values, and ethical storytelling provides practical inspiration for nonprofits of every size. The episode balances strategy with heart, urging listeners to center humanity, not just in fundraising, but in every act of impact.

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Connect with Tammy Zonker:

• LinkedIn: Tammy Zonker
• Instagram
• Fundraising Transformed
• CallingAllHeroesBook.com
• The Intentional Fundraiser Podcast

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For more tools and resources, or to join the We Are For Good community, visit weareforgood.com.

Transcript

[A]

Hey, friends. Impact Up Pause is coming back on October 9, 2025. It's a worldwide gathering of change makers to restore energy, set boundaries that stick, and deepen the connections that fuel both our missions and our well being. You can join us in more than 25 cities, at meetups and online to reframe your relationship with work and perfection, to build wellness into your life and organization, and simply to pause, reflect and take intentional action. Sign up for free [e-mail] ImpactUp. We can't wait to see you there. Hey, I'm John.

[B]

And I'm Becky.

[A]

And this is the We Are for Good podcast.

[B]

Nonprofits are faced with more challenges to accomplish their missions and the growing pressure to do more, raise more, and be more for the causes that improve our world.

[A]

We're here to learn with you from some of the best in the industry, bringing the most innovative ideas, inspirational stories, all to create an impact uprising.

[B]

So welcome to the good community. We're nonprofit professionals, philanthropists, world changers, and rabid fans who are striving to bring a little more goodness into the world.

[A]

So let's get started. Hey, Becky. Big grin.

[B]

John, what's up? This conversation is so long overdue.

[A]

So overdue.

[B]

Emmy Zonker. Welcome in to the We Are For Good podcast, y'.

[C]

All.

[B]

I'm so excited for the community to get to know Tammy because I've been a fan girl of hers for quite some time, just following her thought leadership. And then we got to meet IRL in New Orleans a couple years ago and you just fit so nicely under my arm, almost five nine. And it was just so good to be with you. And today we are diving into a topic that the community's really lifted. They've said, hey, we really want to go deeper on fundraising. We want to talk about major gifts. We want to talk about this bizarre moment in time and how we're navigating it. And so it is our joy to bring in Tammy Zonker. She is the founder and president of Fundraising Transformed. And y', all, we're going to talk about human centered major gifts and how to build your pipeline today. And so get ready, because not only is she a brilliant consultant. Hello. She is a brilliant podcast host as well. So we also want you to go over and check out her podcast, the Intentional Fundraiser podcast. She has been a major gift strategist and fundraising expert expert for nearly 30 years, though you wouldn't know it because her skin looks so incredible. But she's been leading non profits across social services, private schools, University and healthcare, and she's collectively raised nearly a billion dollars, including a beautiful single gift of $27.1 million, which I'm sure has an epic story behind it. So today we're going to dive into that human centered fundraising. She's got a brilliant new book out we want you to put in your cart called Calling All Heroes so you can get your insights on major gift strategy, donor cultivation, and building inclusive fundraising practices that really make an impact. And if you've hung around we are for good for any length of time, you know, that is our jam. So I gotta share this, though, John, because I love the nuance of it so much. When she's not sharing her expertise with the world, Tammy enjoys spending time with her grandchildren and tending her butterfly garden. Does that not just sound so whimsy and beautiful?

[A]

It's connected to transform, too. I remember our conversation back in New Orleans. We may have to take you back there because it's so connected in our mind. Oh, my gosh.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

The metaphor, it just. It all fits. So truly epic human that we admire so much. We're thrilled she's here with us today. So, Tammy, welcome to the We're For Good podcast.

[C]

It is a pleasure to be here. Being with you too is always a joy. And being a guest on this podcast, it's like, literally on my bucket list.

[A]

Oh, for check, my friend.

[B]

You just have such deep expertise into what we would think, what we would call the modern and the human way that we connect on major gifts. And we are going to go straight into that. But before we do, we want to get to know little Tammy, like, growing up, what was she like? How. What kind of heart did she have for this work? What led you to your work today?

[C]

Oh, my goodness. So little Tammy was born with a lot of empathy. You know, I tell this story, I refer to my childhood as Little Trailer on the Prairie. I literally was born in rural Indiana in a farming community. We literally had a mobile home on six acres of property. I worked my way through high school working at a pickle factory. We had chickens and goats and cows and guineas. The things. Here's what. I'll give you some advice. Do not eat the relish.

[B]

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

[A]

The one good thing right out of.

[B]

The game, things she cannot unsee. We will dive into that when we are together over a glass of wine.

[A]

Yeah, I gotta double click on that.

[C]

But it. I mean, I've just always had a heart for. For people, for especially those who had needs, those who were bullied, those who Maybe had a tougher road to walk. I just always had a heart for them. And I. And not just. It wasn't sympathy. It truly was empathy and admiration. I always have admired people who had the strength and found the way to continue to persevere, to rise above, to become who they were born to be. Despite having challenges.

[A]

You could tell why there's such a deep kinship in just the way you show up and it exudes in the words you use and just how you show up with presence when we've been around you. So I'm just so glad for this conversation today. And you're just off the heels of writing this wonderful book. And it's not lost on me that you could have titled it how to Go Raise a Billion Dollars, because that's what you have clearly done. But you called it Calling All Heroes, which is inviting us into a different story, a different narrative. And so I'm so curious about why you chose to kind of go that direction. What inspired you to write the book for this very moment that our sector's in?

[C]

I'm glad you asked. And I just first want to acknowledge that I am a white, cisgendered woman and I hold unearned privilege. And here I am writing about equity and inclusion and social justice. And that's tied to the title, in fact. And I recognize that the word hero has a trigger for some people, that it has been synonymous with saviorism. And I really, I understand why. Because historically and systemically it has created division, it has created harm, it has perpetuated racism and classism and sexism and ableism. And that is not the hero that I believe in. You know, I did Little Tammy grew up in the 70s and I loved that TV series, Wonder Woman, you know, starring Lynda Carter. Some of you younger people may have seen it on like TNT reruns or something. And I loved her for her strength. I loved her moral character, I loved her sense of justice and right and wrong. And let's face it, I mean, she had an invisible airplane, she had like bracelets that could deflect bullets, and she had a golden lasso of truth. I mean, come on, she was a real hero of mine. And, you know, maybe she wasn't your hero. Maybe, I don't know, maybe your hero was Black Panther or green hornet. My 3 year old grandson Grady, his hero right now is Spider Man. I mean, John, who. Who was your hero growing up?

[A]

Oof. I'm like, how do I not automatically have a hero in my mind?

[B]

I was thinking you were going to say Bob Ross.

[A]

Oh, that'd be. That would be really on brand. I would say Bob Ross, but my dad loved the vintage Batman, like the Adam West Batman. So probably that. Which is hilarious to watch.

[B]

Back on she Ra, Princess of Power. I'm aging myself in the 80s. Yeah, totally. Same idea, same concept.

[C]

Same concept, right. There's this tug toward courage and justice and what's right. And so that is my definition of hero. Right. It's rooted in courage and selflessness and integrity and inspiration and fairness. And I really believe that each of us has the capacity to be an everyday hero. So when I talk about calling all heroes, it's not speaking just about donors. It's not speaking just about fundraisers or just about volunteers or board members or just about community members or advocates or those who have that courage to walk that path and participate in our programs and be those first generation college students or whatever their journey is, that it's all of us. And just like the Justice League or the Avengers, that our greatest strength is coming together. And that is why, despite needing the explanation and needing to talk around and kind of shift the paradigm around the word heroes, that is why I picked that title.

[B]

Thank you for naming and claiming all of that. I am also a cisgendered white woman with an incredible amount of privilege. And so I'm curious just how you would break that down for someone listening right now, whether they're a fundraiser or maybe they're in back of house, maybe they're doing marketing, communications or general relations. What does it mean to be a hero, literally, in today's fundraising climate?

[C]

Foreign.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

You want to learn more, head over to weareforgood.com Rex that's we are for good.com recs for VIP access to orgs and amazing humans doing really great work.

[C]

Well, I frame it in the context of human centered Fundraising. There are five pillars in my version of human centered fundraising, and first is listening. So being curious, deep listening. And that was part of my journey when I moved to Detroit in 2008, you know, a city that has for centuries had deep racial divides. Listening, learning, unlearning, especially as a white cisgendered woman, hearing the stories, the hard stories, believing those stories. Not just relying on my colleagues and friends of color to educate me, but doing my own work. And then generously, they offered me the space, once I had done the work, a safe space to ask questions. You know, they knew my heart, and they gave me that space. So the listening, the asking questions, coming to it with empathy, seeking to understand, not sympathy, but true empathy. Wanting to understand as closely as we can that lived experience. Creating a sense of belonging. And I'm a. I'm a huge fan of John Powell and his writing around bridging and so creating belonging for everyone and creating space for everyone's lived experience. Learning from each other, building something new out of those learnings based on shared beliefs and shared values. And then, of course, creating authentic partnership. And authentic partnership, in every case means, you know, naming what's so respectfully, generously, compassionately. A lot of the mentors who took me under their wings, they also called me out.

[B]

I love it when that happens.

[A]

That's kindness.

[C]

Yes. Yes. And because they knew my heart and that I like. Thank you. I had blinders on that I didn't even know. And that was actually. It was Maya McGill, the founder of the Inclusive Philanthropy Institute. She read an advanced reader copy of Calling All Heroes, and she wrote a beautiful endorsement. She gave me feedback in several areas, and one of the areas was the title. She said, I really have a hard time with the word hero. And we kind of unpacked it. And that was the inspiration for me writing in the introduction the whole idea of reclaiming the word hero. So again, it just. Those kind of call outs, those kind of deeper conversations, open conversations, always expand the conversation. I think something good and partnership comes from that.

[A]

I hate that it's disruptive that you're centering the human is so disruptive because we should be coming from that place. But I think the way you just described that gets us back to the heart of what this is all about. It's about seeing each other. It's about not creating more harm. It's creating spaces of dignity and some of the most uplifting possibilities, the conversations we can have with donors about our deepest values, what really matters in the world. So I want to tap Your brain. I mean, you are a coach to thousands of fundraisers that look up to you, that learn from you. I mean, what are those opportunities that exist today for those that are just building their major gift strategy? What feels really critical to you right now?

[C]

Well, I think a couple of things. The first is really, I think, built on trust, right? What's really critical is getting back to healing the broken trust that exists. You're gonna think I'm a nerd, but this morning I was reading the 2025 Edelman Trust Barometer.

[B]

Oh, we read that too. Nerds unite. Let's go.

[C]

I was revisiting some of the graphs and I was just astounded all over again in terms of like, yes, nonprofits, NGOs are trusted more than government right now, but we're trusted less than corporations.

[B]

I literally talked about this in a keynote in New Hampshire last week and how that boggles the mind also, hello, New Hampshire, new friends. Like, yes, how is that possible exactly?

[C]

And so I think when you ask the question, like, what exists? Like, what are the opportunities and major gifts right now? First of all, major gifts have never been more important because I think that they can help sustain us while we begin to repair the disconnect that we're experiencing with everyday donors. Right? The donor retention crisis, the US Household giving crisis. Like major donors might be help us sustain ourselves while we repair those relationships. So I think it's an and strategy, but it's really hard to steal second with your foot on first, right? So we need both of this. So what's critical in building those authentic trust based relationships, of course, is replacing those old transactional practices and models with true engagement, authentic partnerships based on trust and respect and shared purpose and partnership. And we get to part of this when we talk about human centered fundraising and human centered major gifts in the space of Power Dynamics. You know, in Calling All Heroes, I write an entire chapter just on power dynamics. How they show up and ways to dismantle them, ways to navigate them. But it always comes back to truth telling. You know, when we look at the strengths of donor centered fundraising and the shadow side of donor centered fundraising, and we look at the strengths of community centered fundraising and the shadow side of. Of community centered fundraising, right? That this book is about combining the best of those models. And clearly one of the unintended shadow sides of donor centered fundraising are the power dynamics, without a doubt. And that was never what donor centered fundraising was intended to do. When Penelope Burke rolled this out, it was about thanking donors promptly and accurately. It was about showcasing the impact that their gifts were made. Never did it say, let them run wild with your mission. Never did it say, let them reinforce stereotypes about the people you serve and the communities and the work that you do. Never did it say that. And yet we let that happen because we were not brave. We were not brave enough to say that's not actually true. We weren't brave enough to say the problems we are working to solve are actually far more complex than most people understand. I would love. Would you like to have a conversation about some of those complexities? And so that transparency, that power dynamic, just that true partnership between colleagues and community, and the same is true with our donors. True partnership means we are transparent. We tell the truth, even when it's difficult. And if that donor does not agree with us, they're not our people. And one of the quotes, I have it up on my wall all the time, and it's a James Baldwin quote. And of course, James Baldwin, an incredible author and incredible advocate for LGBTQ people. He passed away in the late 80s, but he says we can disagree and still love each other. Unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist.

[B]

Oh, that's a good one, Tammy.

[C]

And so if someone, no matter how wealthy, no matter how generous, if their beliefs and values are not rooted in the work that we are doing and the beliefs and the values that we hold dear to our organization, their money's no good here.

[B]

We need to release them.

[C]

Yes. And I have to believe when we have that kind of courage, when we put that stake in the ground, we will attract a great many more who say, I want to work with an organization with that kind of integrity, with that kind of vision, with that kind of belief that we'll attract more than we lose. But it does take courage.

[B]

It takes such courage. And I appreciate so deeply you talking about the duality that both things can be true and donor centric and community fundraising, and both things can be held. However, the thing that never moves is who you are, your values, what you believe. And that is why your community comes in in the first place, because they see themselves rooted in those values. And I wonder about, like, even shifting from major gifts. Let's look at mid level donors because we really want to start to move people from who are able, you know, and who desires to move up that ladder. How would you suggest approaching moving mid level donors into that major gift pipeline that doesn't feel like we're pushing them based on, well, screenings or what we've heard? It's about the human centered design. What's your thoughts on that?

[C]

Yeah, I love mid level donors. I think of them like Jan Brady.

[B]

Marcia, Marcia, Marcia. All they do is talk about major gift donors. What about me?

[C]

Yes, exactly. Exactly. And yet there's something so special about them. I think that moving mid level donors up is just simply a matter of seeing them as people. Right? Not a constituent id, not like a segment, but actual people. And just like we aim to understand the beliefs and the values and the behaviors of our major donors or our monthly donors, like the first step in moving your middle donors up is curiosity. Taking the time to really understand them, their motives and their journey with your organization. You know, their behavioral dynamics. And AI can be helpful in that, but it needs to be something that augments that personal touch. So again, AI can help us scale the personal touch, whether it's through surveys or whether it's through small group gatherings and meetups or personalized outreach. But again, blending the high touch with some of the automation, which, by the way, more and more of our donors want a blended model. They don't all want to go to coffee with us, right?

[A]

Breaking news.

[C]

And so just this blended model of understanding their behaviors, their preferences, why do they give? What are their hopes and dreams in terms of what they want to impact? What area of your work is, are they most passionate about? What difference do they want to make and how is it that they want to belong? How do they want to show up in community? And so understanding that helps us chart a pathway. And it's not one pathway for middle donors, just like it's not one pathway for major donors. It might be one pathway for middle donors who are looking for belonging in a social element and they care about foster children. It might be another pathway for mid range givers who are more introverted. They're not so interested in the events or social gatherings, but they're deeply passionate about another area of your work. So creating a few of those donor journeys for your middle donors and just following their lead, continuing to get to know them, and personalizing their experience both through digital and personalized engagement, you know, it's just scaling and adapting the same kinds of approaches that we take with major donors.

[A]

I love this call out because I led annual giving for a big chunk of my career. And a lot of times it's like you're herding cats because you're trying to get a large group of people to do a certain thing. And I think where you are switching some of the traditional mindsets of the sector is that we're getting curious. What do they want? Like, we have a lot of different ways that can create an impact here. It's not always money. Sometimes it's money, sometimes it's volunteers, sometimes it's signing this or coming here and understanding the human, which is what you're driving, is the great unlock. Because it's not a mode of scarcity. There's going to be more, there's enough. But people are not going to stick around if they're doing something they don't want to do. So why are we spending all of our time trying to put everybody in one bucket? It just doesn't work. So I'm so here for this. I think it's a great unlock. I love the call out that tech can help us do this better, but we just can't lose the human element at the same time. So, Tammy, I mean, a lot of our listeners are solo shops. Some are small team fundraisers where they just feel the burden of, okay, I'm the prospect researcher over here. I'm also cultivating gifts and I'm making the asks. What's a realistic first step toward kind of embracing these human inclusive, centered pipelines, but also stepping out of the overwhelm because there's so much to do and doing personalized at scale. How do you do that? What do you, where do you guide someone with a small shop, limited time?

[C]

Well, first, I love small shop fundraisers.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

I think for, I mean, I know it is completely overwhelming, but I will give you a little inside, little insight. I work with, you know, big university teams. They're also overwhelmed. Yeah, we're all overwhelmed. So one of the things I love about small shops is that you're a little more agile. There's fewer hoops to jump through. There's less hierarchy that you have to navigate when you're trying to adapt or make change or maybe try do a trial or experiment with some things. So I love that about small shops and I think that, that, you know, look at that as an advantage that you have. So my advice with small shops is to start with listening. So maybe it's even one or two purposeful discovery calls or conversations each week. One or two conversations can make a huge difference. And one of the things that I would often do is just block time. Like Friday afternoons. I would block time to make thank you calls or just to call and hopefully catch someone who they're wrapping up their day and would maybe would have a few minutes or maybe I would catch them on their commute home and I would get Some of the times I would catch donors and have some of the most meaningful conversations. So just open, asking open ended questions, not trying to sell them something, not even trying to book a visit, not trying to pitch something, not trying to tell them about a new program, not trying to push information, trying to learn. So, you know, some well placed open ended questions. I would time it to what was going on maybe in our organization. So if we were going into strategic planning the next month, I might say. Marilyn, it's Tammy. Listen, I just came out of a leadership team meeting. We are going to be moving into strategic planning next month, start of a new quarter. And I wanted to just ask you a question. If you've got some time, wait for confirmation, right? Marilyn, if you could dream big with us, what would you want to see happen? Like if there were no limits, what would you want to see happen or what would you want to help make happen? You know, what's the thing about our work that worries you the most? What is it about our community and the work that we do that breaks your heart the most? Where you really want to have an impact, where you really want to make changes, and what do you think it would take? Who would need to be at the table for us to make that change? Again, these are just big questions. And Marilyn, I want, maybe you probably won't even be able to answer that between now and by the time you get to your driveway. But I want you to think about it if you would, over the course of the next week and maybe we could get together. I know we've got a board meeting coming up, maybe we could visit right after the board meeting. So again, just these open ended questions, these big questions to really get inside as a small shop, you know, sometimes it just takes a few of these conversations to create that snowball effect that things really start beginning to happen. I mean, what you need to do is replicate you. And there's no better way to do that than with a group of passionate community leaders, whether they're donors or community advocates or, you know, this volunteer corps leader, people who make things happen. Start one or two conversations a week and see where they go because we want to multiply you out there in the world, leveraging their circles of influence, their resources, their expertise, their vision. So I would say start there.

[B]

Okay, I gotta dissect all of that because there were so many brilliant nuances that I want to make sure that people do not miss. Our trend this year was owning your narrative. And we asked the question is, what is the true story of your organization right now. Because if the story of five years ago has got to be different than what it is, I mean, even a year ago, you is probably different. And what you've just unpacked. There is a frictionless way to cultivate and understand a donor. And discovery. There was no ask. There was no mention of money, the currency of which you just asked. There was, to me, what I would call like the Charlie Bucket golden ticket. You are asking somebody what lights them up. You are asking them about their why. And I think it's absolutely brilliant. So clearly Tammy knows her stuff. And friends, if you have found yourself nodding during this and saying, this is how I want to approach my donors, guess what? This is how your donors want you to approach them. They don't want the old scripts. They don't want the same email you've been sending every single time. They want human to human design that feels personal, tied back to those values. So, Tammy, we're starting to wind down conversation a little bit, and I want to get into story. Because you are such a champion of narrative. I think you weave story in such a beautiful way. Is there a moment of philanthropy or generosity in your career that just hit you right between the eyes? And probably, if I know you from what you've said, it hit you in the heart and it stayed with you. What's that story that's bubbling up?

[C]

So what bubbled up first, of course, was the $27.1 million gift, but that's not the one that I want to share. I want to share one. And it's a hard story, but it is so beautiful. And it's a story of a family that I met at the Children's center in Detroit when I was chief philanthropy officer there for nine years. And I am sharing this story with their permission. Jasmine was the mom of two young boys. Orlando was nine and Jaden was seven. And Children's center is a mental health and behavioral health center in Detroit. And Jasmine brought Orlando in because he nothing serious, but he was acting up at school and kind of being the class clown and it was affecting his grades. So she brought him in for some treatment, and we, you know, got him into counseling, and he was doing really well. We got a call one day that it was actually the day after Valentine's Day. There had been a house fire. They had had a house fire in their home and completely burned down their home. Both boys were in intensive care with burns over 90% of their bodies.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

And Jaden, the younger one, was responding well to treatment, but Orlando was really struggling. And in fact, they made the difficult decision to take Orlando off life support. And Jasmine says she just wanted to curl up in a ball and go to sleep and never wake up. But she knew Jaden was counting on her. So of course I, you know, I shared that story with our board and we did an emergency like fund to help with medical expenses, but to also help them. It was a rental. She needed a place. So we've got funds for them to make a deposit on a new rental home to replace furniture and clothing and all the things. Right. It was like, it was like $20,000. And Jaden did recover. Of course, both of them were receiving grief counseling, got them back on their feet. And our therapist, their, their counselor was helping them spend the money, get back on their feet, get. And There was like $2,500 left in this fund. And they weren't spending it. They weren't spending it. And finance is calling me, like, you know, this is a, you know, we got to empty this fund. And so I, I, I talked to the therapist and she said, okay, I'll, I'll call Jasmine. We'll get it taken care of. And you know, Jasmine, Jasmine said, listen to the therapist. She said, listen, I know we could go out and get a big screen tv. We could spend that money in a lot of different ways, but we are simple people with simple needs. Would it be okay if we used that money to buy smoke detectors for other families at the children's center? Oh.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[C]

And to me, that is such a 360 expression of generosity and caring for one another in community is one of the most beautiful stories that I have ever witnessed. And it's hard to hear, but that's what happens in community, right? People taking care of people.

[A]

But also, we're talking to many fundraisers, many people surrounded by missions that are hard. Maybe not this hard. This is hard. But I want to recognize of how you walked into this story by modeling dignity, by modeling ethical storytelling, by modeling consent. All of the pieces where Jasmine felt that psychological safety to share what she need, you know, and I think it goes both ways, that this is the human way. We're not donors. We're not these mid level donors. We are humans and, and, and journeying. This one of the hardest stories I've heard. My goodness. But so beautiful of what is possible as we kind of untap what's really at our deepest values, at our deepest core level. Thank you for that, my friend.

[C]

Yeah. And we're more alike than different. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. So true.

[B]

And when we meet each other, where we're at and the way we need to be met, that matters. It deeply, deeply matters. And when life feels so chaotic and like we have no control over what is happening in our missions, I think just feeling seen and known helps us feel held and held on for another day or for another moment. And that is what people remember. Thank you for seeing Jasmine the way she needed to be seen. That was really beautiful.

[A]

It's really beautiful. My friend, one good thing we'd ask of you, like, how do you want to end this conversation? Is there something that feels true that you want to share with this community? It could be a habit. It could be a hack. Take us. What's in your brain?

[C]

What's in my brain? And I love that you end every episode, that you include this in every episode. For me, the one good thing is be brave. Ask yourselves what I ask myself every day, and that is what one brave decision can I make today.

[A]

Boom.

[C]

Be brave.

[A]

That's it.

[B]

Timmy Zonker, I like you so much. I just. I think you're good for the sector. You're good for the world. You're good for the butterflies and the grandkids and everything in between. You just bring it back to the human centeredness and remind us of our empathy. And I think the. The call to empathy rather than sympathy is. Was a really powerful one. At the top of the hour, so people are going to want to connect with you. Tell us where you hang out online, tell them how they can. I mean, certainly you know where to go on the podcast. We want people to go check out the Intentional Fundraiser podcast, but also tell us about fundraising transformed and what social.

[C]

Channels you hang out on. Yeah. Thank you. Well, for sure, you can find me on LinkedIn. Tammy Zonker. I think I'm the only Tammy Zonker on LinkedIn.

[B]

Great SEO.

[C]

Yes. Yep, for sure. I'm on Instagram. You'll get some pictures of grandkids on Instagram and Sunday brunches and an occasional butterfly garden shot. And if you want to check out the book, you can go to calling allheroes book.com.

[B]

Oh, please check out this book. Well, we'll submit it into we are for Books community and see if it's something else that we can all learn from as well.

[A]

My friend, we love how you show up in the world. Thank you for this time. What a gift you are. Grateful for you.

[C]

Thank you.