Podcast Summary: We Are For Good Podcast, Episode 668

Merge to Multiply: How a Purposeful Sunset Expanded Community Impact

Guests: Desiree Lyons (Namaste Direct) & Kate Flatley (Women's Justice Initiative)
Air Date: December 22, 2025
Host: Becky Endicott

Episode Overview

This episode explores how two mission-driven organizations—Namaste Direct and the Women's Justice Initiative (WJI)—made the difficult but strategic decision to sunset one organization and merge its successful program into another. The conversation candidly challenges assumptions in the nonprofit sector—particularly the idea that growth and scale are always the markers of success—offering listeners an in-depth look at the power of sunsetting with integrity, collaboration, and centering community needs.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Personal Journeys of the Guests

• Desiree Lyons’ Journey (02:20–03:46)
  • Grew up in Southern California; transformative experience traveling the world through Semester at Sea during 9/11.
  • Developed a passion for cultural anthropology and women’s empowerment.
  • "When I learned about Namaste Direct's work in Guatemala, I just instantly fell in love with the mission and the whole ethos of the organization." (03:31, Desiree)
• Kate Flatley’s Journey (04:00–05:02)
  • Grew up in Connecticut, began in foundation work, then moved to Guatemala for hands-on experience with community organizations.
  • Went to law school to focus on international human rights; returned to Guatemala, considers it home.

2. Organizational Overviews & Mission Alignment

• WJI’s Mission & Approach (05:14–07:07)
  • "WJI is driven by a vision to build brighter futures for women and girls... Guatemala faces extremely high rates of violence against women and girls." (05:16, Kate)
  • Programs in rights education, legal services, and violence prevention in 120+ communities—impacting over 60,000 beneficiaries.
  • Services delivered in Kachiquel (local language); collaboration central to the model.
• Namaste Direct’s Complementary Role (07:25–10:54)
  • Empowers Guatemalan women entrepreneurs with business advising, financial literacy, and fair capital.
  • "More than 80% of working Guatemalan women start small informal businesses out of necessity." (07:50, Desiree)
  • Founded to supplement microfinance with hands-on training and culturally rooted support; strong emphasis on dreaming beyond subsistence.

3. Recognizing the Need to Pivot: The Path to Sunsetting

• Rising Red Flags (11:33–16:06)
  • Despite program success, increasing loan defaults raised concerns about microfinance’s potential harm.
  • "We had a much higher default rate on loans... it is common practice for many MFIs just to simply give people another loan and refinance if somebody defaults—which is a contributor to a really troubling problem of debt." (11:58, Desiree)
  • Personal customer stories, including a top participant losing her business due to family needs and predatory lending, underscored the need for change.
  • "Does it really make sense for us to continue providing loans when the landscape is so saturated with debt and it's becoming more of a toxic survival mechanism? What else could we do that would be more empowering?" (15:30, Desiree)
• Strategic Decision Making (17:17–21:03)
  • Leadership weighed options: grow the org, merge, or sunset with integrity. Growth attempts were promising but did not resolve sustainability concerns.
  • "Building a successful new program is one thing, but it is not organizational sustainability." (19:47, Desiree)
  • Legal and financial factors in Guatemala informed the need for a well-planned, responsible transition.

4. The Decision to Merge: Finding a Mission-Aligned Partner

• Identifying WJI as Successor (21:03–22:55)

  • Desiree proposed transferring Namaste Direct’s signature program to a like-minded organization.
  • "What if we approach a mission aligned organization that has the capacity to take this program on, to take it further than we could?" (21:46, Desiree)
  • Kate and WJI had previously collaborated; intersection of economic empowerment and legal/rights advocacy.

• WJI’s Perspective & Considerations (24:01–27:11)

  • Kate’s initial reaction: “shock and sadness” at Namaste’s sunset, but honored and challenged by the responsibility.
  • WJI sees the program as “an opportunity that we couldn't pass up”—meaningful impact and mission synergy.
  • "Through Saving Circles, women develop strong, sustainable networks of support. They build partnerships and allies in their communities." (26:31, Kate)

5. Advice on Merging & Sunsetting

• For Nonprofit Leaders (27:29–29:02)

  • Prioritize community needs and mission over brand or ego.
  • "You have to take, like, institutional survival kind of off the table for a minute... Really getting clear on that, which is hard, and then looking for mission alignment." (27:31, Desiree)
  • Be creative and open to collaboration—focus on sustaining impact, not institutions.

• For Funders & Donors (29:44–33:17)

  • Change takes time; transitions require investment, patience, and a tolerance for piloting and learning.
  • “We really needed [funders] to be comfortable with that approach and to understand that we were moving slower initially to then be able to confidently invest in growing the program in the future.” (29:51, Kate)
  • Investments in sustainability—like educational resources—extend the program’s impact beyond organizational life cycle.

6. Philosophical Reflections and Hopes

• On Innovation and Change (29:02)
  • “We have a very technical term at We Are For Good—for innovation. It's called try stuff.” (29:02, Becky)
  • Risk, piloting, and learning are crucial to sectoral progress.

7. “One Good Thing” from Each Leader (34:33–34:55)

• Kate: “We're helping [women] achieve greater agency and live free from violence.” (34:52)
• Desiree: “Stay focused on the people and the communities that you're serving and be willing to adapt and pivot... and everything will work out from there, I believe.” (34:55)

Notable Quotes

• “Sunsetting is certainly not failure. It is responsibility. It's integrity. It's mission over ego.” — Desiree Lyons (00:23)
• “WJI focuses on addressing these challenges by improving the lives of indigenous women and girls through rights education, access to legal services, and gender-based violence prevention.” — Kate Flatley (05:24)
• “It was certainly the most challenging moment of my career.” — Desiree Lyons (17:17)
• “When the opportunity came our way, I think it was a mix of excitement and also, honestly, some concern about taking on a new program at this exact moment. But we saw... the importance of incorporating economic empowerment into our work.” — Kate Flatley (24:45)
• “Be creative, be collaborative.” — Desiree Lyons (28:56)
• “The results may not be immediate, but I think when organizations are supported to do this well, these transitions can really lead to stronger programs and greater impact for the communities we serve.” — Kate Flatley (30:59)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Introduction & Major Themes: 00:02–00:38
• Guest Introductions: 02:04–05:02
• Organizational Missions: 05:02–10:54
• Identifying the Need for Change: 11:33–16:06
• Strategic Sunset Planning: 17:17–22:55
• WJI Perspective on Merger: 24:01–27:11
• Advice to Nonprofits/Funders: 27:29–33:17
• One Good Thing: 34:33–34:55

Memorable Moments

• The heartfelt recounting of loan recipients’ real-life struggles highlighted the complexity and gravity of making a shift away from direct lending (13:30–15:30).
• The emotional hand-off: “The first organization that came to mind was the Women's Justice Initiative... At the same time, I did not have a whole lot of confidence that WJI would say yes. But it was sort of like, please.” (21:54, Desiree)
• The candid discussion around sunsetting as organizational courage rather than defeat (00:23, 27:29, 34:55).

Final Reflections

The episode is a masterclass in how transparency, values alignment, and genuine collaboration can enable nonprofit organizations to honor their missions even (and especially) in the face of big change. Both Desiree and Kate emphasize that true impact arises from centering community voices, bravely adapting to shifting landscapes, and daring to imagine new models for scaling good—not just growing organizations.