Podcast Summary: We Are For Good – Ep. 671

Shift 1 – Metrics With Meaning: Make Better Decisions With Less Noise
Guest: Ori Carmel (Founder & CEO, Sowen)
Date: January 5, 2026
Hosts: Jon McCoy, Becky Endicott, and co-host

Episode Overview

This episode launches the “12 Shifts” series for nonprofits, starting with the critical topic of moving from “more data” to “metrics with meaning.” Guest Ori Carmel, impact measurement expert and founder of Sowen, joins the hosts to unpack how nonprofits can overcome data overwhelm and focus on actionable metrics that truly drive decision-making and impact. The conversation is practical, candid, and occasionally humorous as they explore why so many impact reports miss the mark and what leaders should do differently.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Data Reckoning” in the Nonprofit Sector

Timestamps: 00:05 – 04:21

• Rising Pressures: Nonprofits are under pressure from political, economic, and social factors, making sound decisions more important than ever.
• Overload Paradox: Although organizations have more dashboards and tools, many feel “stuck” and lack clarity. More data often leads to slower, not smarter, decision-making.
• Quote (Ori Carmel, 02:05):

  “When the stakes are high, the decisions become more critical.”

• The Impact Buzzword: “Impact” has lost meaning due to overuse; many reports are superficial, tracking activity not outcomes.
• Stakeholder Disconnect: Organizations often struggle to connect their vision and mission to what really matters to stakeholders.

2. From Data Overload to Actionable Insights

Timestamps: 04:21 – 08:56

• Why Impact Reports Fail:

  • Reports are often performative or focus on easy-to-measure activities instead of true outcomes.
  • Example metrics: # of meetings, dollars distributed—these don’t show real change.

• Root Causes:

  • Lack of deep stakeholder understanding.
  • Difficulty defining what matters and identifying relevant information within data volume.
  • Ambiguity in definitions (“impact” means different things to different organizations).

• Quote (Ori Carmel, 04:21):

  “Only 1% of [data] is going to be relevant to the decision or question you are looking to answer. It’s very hard to sift that out.”

3. Asking Better Questions – The Path to Meaningful Metrics

Timestamps: 08:24 – 12:13

• The Process of Getting to Better Questions:
  • Understand your organization: vision, mission, what change you’re uniquely equipped to make.
  • Stakeholder mapping—identify and prioritize different stakeholder needs.
  • Prioritize: You can’t satisfy every need; choose vs. scatter your focus.
• Example from Sowen: Ori shares how narrowing focus to fewer, specific things transformed effectiveness.
• Quote (Ori Carmel, 08:56):

  “Get very, very specific about what it is that you do that is at the intersection of what your stakeholders need, where you can make an impact, and where you are most effective.”

4. The Danger of Performance Theater & Vanity Metrics

Timestamps: 12:57 – 17:20

• Sector Trap: Many organizations default to “performance theater” — glossy reports repeating the same metrics year after year.
• Accountability Rising: The time for finger-pointing and empty promises is ending; stakeholders want real, demonstrable impact.
• Comparison to Corporate World: Nonprofits are young in using data, but need to professionalize quickly.
• Quote (Ori Carmel, 14:25):

  “Eventually somebody… is going to raise their hand and say, ‘Hey, we’re going to hold you accountable...’ Once that spiral of lack of trust starts, it’s very, very hard to stop it.”

5. Building Metrics With Meaning

Timestamps: 17:20 – 22:48

• The Shift:
  • Get specific: Know who you are, your goals, what you do best, and tailor metrics accordingly.
  • Triangulate: Combine surveys/focus groups with actual results (“what happened” vs. “what people say”).
  • Beware paralysis by analysis: Collecting endless data for perfect answers stalls decisions.
• The “Aspirin Test”:
  • Use data for sufficient confidence, not certainty. Move forward once you reasonably know enough.
• Quote (Ori Carmel, 17:51):

  “Without the right insights, you can’t...go back to your funders and say, ‘Here’s what we actually did with it. Here’s what we said we would do. Here’s the gap. Here’s the opportunity.’”

6. What to Stop Doing: Less is More

Timestamps: 22:48 – 25:14

• Stop “Chasing Data”:
  • Building dashboards or implementing new systems just to have them wastes time and money.
  • Question: “How is this going to help you make a better decision, move faster, identify the impact you’re creating?”
• Avoid “Silver Bullet” Solutions: Focus on implementable, digestible fixes that your team will actually use.
• Quote (Ori Carmel, 22:48):

  “Stop chasing silver bullet solutions... The tools are agnostic. The tools are neither good or bad. It’s how we use them.”

7. Putting It Into Practice: A Homework/Playbook for Leaders

Timestamps: 27:07 – 31:24

• “The Power of Fewer, Clearer Priorities”:
  • Conduct a team exercise to clarify the 3 things you do best—what brings unique value and aligns with stakeholder needs.
  • Organizations (including Sowen) succeed when they narrow their focus and say “no” to work outside their true strengths.
• Impact Measurement: Make impact tracking one of the top areas of focus, followed by strategy and implementation of data tools.
• Quote (Ori Carmel, 27:18):

  “…What are the three things that you do best better than anyone or that you’re best positioned to do?... You end up doing a lot of things kind of well rather than doing the few things that you are best positioned to do really, really well and then make an impact on that.”

8. Remember: Qualitative Matters Too

Timestamps: 31:24 – 32:43

• Broaden Data Thinking:
  • Qualitative data (stories, nonverbals, context) are just as essential as numbers for painting a full impact picture.
• Quote (Ori Carmel, 31:24):

  “90% of the information that we digest is visual… The eye contact, the twitching of the face, the nonverbal communication—that is just as important, if not more important sometimes.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Why Impact Reports Often Fail:
  • “[Organizations] measure activities and outputs rather than outcomes and impact... They don’t tie the vision and mission... to tangible things that matter to [stakeholders].” — Ori Carmel (04:21)
• On the Risk of Superficial Data:
  • “Once that spiral of lack of trust starts, it’s very, very hard to stop it.” — Ori Carmel (14:25)
• On Falling in Love With the Problem:
  • “We call it, like, falling in love with the problem. …Trying to get all the possible data…that doesn’t exist. Life moves too fast.” — Ori Carmel (20:03)
• On Tools and Decision-Making:
  • “If you don’t have an idea of how you’re going to use it or what are you trying to solve with it, don’t go build the tool.” — Ori Carmel (24:59)

Timestamps: Key Segments

• The Data Overwhelm Crisis: 00:05 – 04:21
• Why Impact Measurement Fails: 04:21 – 08:56
• How to Ask Better Questions: 08:56 – 12:13
• Performance Theater & Vanity Metrics: 12:57 – 17:20
• Building Meaningful Metrics: 17:20 – 22:48
• What to Stop Doing (Dashboards, Data Chasing): 22:48 – 25:14
• Focus Exercise for Leaders: 27:07 – 31:24
• The Value of Qualitative Data: 31:24 – 32:43

Actionable Takeaways for Listeners

• Prioritize clarity over completeness. Focus on the 1% of data that leads to better decisions.
• Define and prioritize your stakeholders. Map their needs—then make hard choices about who you’ll serve best.
• Triangulate information. Don’t rely on surveys or focus groups alone—match intentions to reality.
• Stop chasing the latest tools. Only implement dashboards or systems if they solve a clearly defined problem.
• Narrow your priorities. Identify 3 things your organization does best and focus your measurement and improvement efforts there.
• Use qualitative data too. Stories, context, and nonverbal cues are just as vital as numbers for understanding impact.
• Embrace decision-making with “enough” data. Don’t wait for perfect certainty before acting.

How to Connect with Ori Carmel & Sowen

• Website: sowenco.com
• Email: oricarmel@sowenco.com
• LinkedIn: (search Ori Carmel)
• Contact the hosts for an intro

Tone Note: Conversation is insightful and practical, with Ori sharing candid, witty takes (“You just killed so many dashboard dreams right now,” 24:40) and the hosts highlighting the sector’s shared challenges and learning curve. There’s also a recurring theme of encouragement and humility—everyone is on the same journey toward metrics that matter.

(Advertisements, intros, and outros have been omitted from this summary.)