← We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits
We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits
684. The Courage to Disappoint: Trust-Based Leadership for Nonprofits - Glennda Testone
00:38:23
Loading summary
Transcript62 lines
- [00:02]
A
Those have been some of the most meaningful moments in my nonprofit career. It's like getting it right according to the right people. Not always the people in power sometimes. Often the people with the least power, like them saying, wow, I'm just so glad you did that that way.
- [00:23]
B
Hey, I'm John.
- [00:24]
C
And I'm Becky.
- [00:25]
B
And this is the We Are for Good podcast.
- [00:28]
C
Let's get started.
- [00:31]
B
Hey, Becky. What you smiling about?
- [00:33]
C
I am smiling because one of my new favorite people is here, and I am so excited for this community to get to know her.
- [00:40]
B
I know. I feel like there was, like, the before Glenda and then the After Glenda moment in our life. And so I'm excited to introduce you to Glenda Testone. She is the CEO over at the Nonprofit Leadership Lab. You may know them because our friend Joan Gary, who came in the house and has taught us all the things, has brought together an incredible group of nonprofit leaders who want to do things differently, who want to shift mindsets, who want to lead into growth, who want to, like, not just avoid the complexity of the work either, but they're here to, like, champion it together. And so we thought it'd be fun to have Glenda over for a little convo, because when she's not running the Nonprofit Leadership Lab, she's also co hosting Nonprofits Are Messy. Hello. The number one nonprofit podcast in the world. And one of our dear friends along the journey has just been following, you know, the kind of trailblazing work they have done through the podcast. But Glenda also writes a monthly blog for Joengary.com and just she shows up in service to this community, but she is not one of those humans that just speaks. She speaks from lived experience. She speaks from more than 14 years as executive director of New York City's LGBT Community center, which Becky and I got to visit a couple of years back. Didn't know this at the time, but in that time she was there. She tripled the budget, she strengthened programs, and she even led a 9 million capital campaign renovation. So the very space we got to see was the very work that our friend was stitching together in the background. So she's also partnered with Google on Stonewall Forever and help lead a racial equity transformation. My goodness, my friend, really grateful to have you in the podcast today.
- [02:15]
A
I am so thrilled and excited to be here with you. Becky and John. We are new friends, but we are fast friends. And I feel like I'm first time guest, longtime listener of the pod. I'm a big, big fan. Big fan of we are for good. So I'm just so excited to be here with you all and talk about how we can support this incredible nonprofit ecosystem we all care so much about.
- [02:42]
B
There's so many things that we're excited to talk about today. But, you know, our podcast. We want to know the human. We want our community to get to know you and your story. Would you take us back to little Glenda growing up? And what Would you kind of connect the dots that led you to this work?
- [02:57]
A
Oh, that's such a great question. I'm going to make this quick. Don't get scared. I was born in upstate New York. I was born to two people who were of service and sort of helpers in their own right. My mom worked most of her career as the assistant director at an African American community center in upstate New York. During that time, she got her master's degree in social work and became a social worker. And she's super proud of it. And my dad started out as an educator. He was a earth science teacher and then progressed into administration and retired as a school superintendent. So giving back education, those are the folks that taught me how to be a human. And I went to school and majored in those things. You know, I. I got a degree, my undergrad degree was broadcast journalism and philosophy with a minor in women's studies. So I was like, oh, social change. This is exciting. And then I went on to Ohio State and I got a master's degree in women's studies because I was really interested in justice and injustice and went from there to get my first job at Glad and started there. My. The big boss at Glad at the time was Joan Gary.
- [04:18]
B
I was wondering if you overlap.
- [04:21]
C
She.
- [04:22]
A
I was completely, completely blown away by her the first time I met her. And she eventually became my mentor. I went to her and said, I want to do. I didn't even know this job existed. This executive director thing, I think that's what I want to do when I grow up. And then here we are. I did that for six years, and then I went on to be the vice president at the Women's Media center, which was a startup nonprofit trying to get progressive women's voices into the media, founded by Jane Fonda and Gloria Steinem and Robin Morgan. So more fabulous women. And then I applied for the job and got to run the LGBT center in New York. And it was. It was my dream job. That's what I always wanted to do from the, you know, years prior when I met Joan and figured out what an executive director was. And did that for 14 years, and it was super fulfilling and inspiring and incredible. And Joan came to me late in my tenure there and said, you know, I. I've built this thing called the Nonprofit Leadership Lab. And, you know, my wife's retired. I'm thinking I. I might want to take a step back, too. Would you like to come in and. And sort of help me run this stuff? And. And you can lean in, and I could lean out a little bit. We haven't quite gotten there yet. Yeah, but that is. That is. Joan's not a leaner outer, really, is what the thing. The thing is. And I'm. And I like working with her. I enjoy it. So I'm like, no, lean in. What do you think of this? What about this? So that. That. That was our plan, and that's how I arrived to you all. And I have the most respect in the world for the people who are trying to make the world a better place. So nonprofit was always my home. I wish someone had told me, you know, 25 years ago, oh, you belong here. Don't even think about this other stuff. But I've spent my whole career in nonprofit, so here I am.
- [06:26]
B
Journey. Oh, my gosh.
- [06:27]
C
And such like a warrior. That's the thing I want to say about you. You have this, like, fight inside you. And I love so much that our stories intersected at first at the LGBT Community center, where we came in at the tail end of your tenure. And, like, literally, we walk in, and this. We're seeing the center and its vibrancy, and it's like, we got to see the end of what you had really built there. And so we want to learn from you, because you and Joan have such a distinct point of view in that Mama Bear quality is in there. And so I want to talk about leading through growth and complexity, because I feel like that has been your entire career, and I just think you have been through crises. You've been through equity work. You have gone through transformation completely. So can you share some of that journey and what shaped the leadership philosophy around how we're going to lead through growth and complexity?
- [07:29]
A
Oh, yeah, that is all true. And I think it's one of those things where if someone had told me in the beginning, hey, sign up for this, and you're going to go through X, Y, and Z, I would have said, you know what? Maybe not. I don't know. That seems really challenging. But having gone through it, I think what has really shaped my leadership philosophy is, first and foremost, I consider myself a learner. I Don't have all the answers. I don't know everything. And I believe in working with other people deeply and consistently. And so I, I went into every nonprofit leadership role I had with a mindset of like, tell me what I need to know. Because I know I, I know the things that I know, but I don't know everything. And I want to know what you all think. I'm just like collaborative to a fault, like in the stereotypical way you would think a nonprofit person is. But then I'm also, you know what, you know, what kicks in, I think helps me out a little bit sometimes is impatience. Not in my parenting. It's not good to be impatient when you, when you are a mama bear with your seven year old. But it is helpful when you're both super collaborative but also a little impatient. Because then I get to a point where I'm like, okay, and what are we going to do? Yeah, yeah, like we're talking, talking, talking. But like people need us, they need us to do something, to try something. So what, what are we going to do? I think I just always saw mistakes even from early on. I can remember being at GLAAD and working for Joan and I was responsible for the northeast region of the country and I was supposed to monitor the media and I was doing that. But I had missed something. I had missed something in the New York Post that I'm sure was some salacious and can't remember what it is now about like gay people or trans people. And, and I just missed it. And it wound up on Fox News and people were like, where did this come from? Did we have. And I'm like, oh my God, I missed it. It came from the New York Post and I had a choice at that time, like I felt terrible. This is my fault. I made a mistake. My first job out of graduate school to own it and try and be very clear it was not going to happen again. And here's why. Or to do the things that people sometimes do. Avoid it, blame someone else, ignore it, you know, and that's just not in my nature. So I did own it. And I think that first step early on gave me the courage I need to just continue to do that. Like I will get things wrong, I will make mistakes. And the way that I can best handle that is to admit it and own it and do it differently. And what I know better, do better. That's been my plan.
- [10:35]
B
There you go, Glenda. What a story. And I also want to go back to Glenda. Fifteen years or however many Years ago and give you all the AI tools that could monitor that stuff and make it really easy now.
- [10:46]
A
Oh, my God, John. I was looking at actual, actual newspaper.
- [10:51]
C
Oh, my gosh.
- [10:52]
B
I remember these days, people were reading the paper every day and highlighting obituaries and sending them upstairs. It's like, thank goodness, measuring pica so.
- [11:00]
C
We could see how much ad space it would have taken to buy that out. I totally am with you and friend.
- [11:06]
B
Yes.
- [11:06]
C
We have all been there, John. Do you remember who is screaming at us after I missed something? I mean, it happens.
- [11:14]
B
It's the moments that make you, you know, a little bit.
- [11:17]
A
Yeah.
- [11:18]
B
But, I mean, we have to counter this. I mean, I. I appreciate your vulnerability, and I think the door that opens up to community when you can just talk about this stuff and normalize it, it's everything. So thank you for leading in that way.
- [11:33]
A
Yeah.
- [11:34]
B
Let's also balance this. That you tripled the organization's budget over a period of years. And we're not just talking about growing expenses. Like, money moves at the speed of trust. That's obviously a huge growth of investment, the capital campaign that came together. What kind of leadership work had to happen within you to, like, get to a position to grow like that? Like, what are some of the principles that you'd pull out?
- [11:58]
A
Well, I. Gosh, I love talking to you guys because there's so many things I want to say to each question. You know, it's funny that you say money moves at the speed of trust. I was taught by one of our equity consultants who I just so deeply respect and listen to everything she said. Like, tell me. Tell me what should be happening. I am a white person leading an organization that is serving primarily people of color, and I need to. I need to get this right. I need to do better than people have done. And she always used to say, relationships move at the speed of trust. And I think the thing. The foundational things that allowed me to grow the organization were the relationship building that I did with people laterally above me, below me, colleagues, donors, community members, and the trust building. Really, really doing what I said I was going to do and being as transparent and as vulnerable as I could about what we were facing and the things I was juggling and trying to make the best decisions. That's. That's really investing that time and building relationships with people who I respected. And I. I needed their support and not just the people above me. I think leaders often assume, well, of course, you do that with your board and you do that with donors. But I needed that from the staff. And I, I went in as a non profit person, assuming I would have that, because I'm like, I'm you. Come on. I was where you are. But there is something different that happens when you get in that seat. You have to earn people's trust. They do not and will not just give it to you. You have to demonstrate to them that you care about the right things. And so that's where I think, like, my focus on justice for the people that do not have it is really what. What earned me some credibility in people's minds. And I got a lot of like, well, I wouldn't want to make that decision. I'm so glad you're making that decision. That's hard.
- [14:20]
C
I mean, every day in this work.
- [14:23]
A
You know, wow, that sounds hard. I mean, I really am advocating for you to say A, but, like, I wouldn't want to be the one that had to decide between A and B. That seems really difficult. So I try to, like, bring people in and say, like, look, I want to do the best things for people. I want to create this amazing community and environment, and I want to make things better. And here's all the nuance, here's the gray areas, here's the trade offs that we're looking at. Concretely. I tried as much as possible not to hide that from people and to really bring them in, because I think that educates people and, and helps them better understand the situation. Becky, I think what you said in the beginning are some of the best compliments I've ever gotten. Like, warrior, mama, bear, love it. That is who I am. That is who I want to be. And also, I want other people to believe they can. They can do that too. They have the tools, they have the power. They just have to believe.
- [15:28]
C
I just. There's so much hope in what you say. And to me, it is moving us past this very old school nonprofit mentality where the leader keeps things buttoned up. It's very Norman Rockwell. It's on a need to know basis. And Glinda's like, take the curtain down like the wizard is behind it. See the messy middle and everything in between. And guess what? It's gray and nuanced almost all the time. It's rarely black and white. And so I love that you're telling us the great unlock of tripling your budget is do what you say you're gonna do. Have integrity, be vulnerable, bring people in even when it's hard. And I thank you so much for talking about trust. It's the Number one trend that we have for this year, and we are for good, which is trust is the work now. And that has been illuminated so many times. And I think getting into a mindset shift is going to help us get there. And I think when we talk about nonprofit accountability, it feels a little bit like fear management for the sector. So this is, how do we avoid mistakes? How do we avoid backlash? How do we avoid risk? How do we avoid taking a political stance that some of our donors will not be in support of, and some of them will. And so I want you to help reframe accountability as something that actually builds trust and. And strengthens mission delivery.
- [16:59]
A
I love that question, and I think this is one of the biggest mindset shifts that leaders need to make. And I understand it. I was in. Look, I. I came into the center. We were not in a solid place financially. The world was not loving LGBT people, you know, and we were in New York, and it was. It was great on the one hand, like, more accepting than where my spouse is from, like Mississippi. But also, on the other hand, it. There was a lot of competition for the. The money that was there to try and serve the community. And I think making the shift from being fear based and being risk averse, which is. I feel like risk is like, this is a terrible mixed metaphor. If there was a drinking game at a board meeting, and every time a.
- [17:50]
C
Board member said.
- [17:53]
A
Everyone would be wasted because boards are obsessed with risk. And I coming in as a first time. The first woman to lead the organization, first time executive director, I was so scared of making a mistake. I was so scared of, like, taking a risk. So I didn't. You know, what I was describing in the last question was not how I came in to my career, it's how I evolved in my career and sort of. Sort of where I got to. But I do think that, you know, we need. It's not just a. We can't just say it. We can't just fake it till we make it. We have to actually deliver. We have to do that because there are so many broken promises in this country. And I think, especially for me, my evolution of growing up, even with my mom, you know, working in the African American Community center as a clueless white person and then evolving to like, oh, my God, there's so much racial injustice, and what are we. What are we going to do about this and how we're. How are we going to address this? It. It forced me to take accountability and to say, I can control myself and I can do things Differently. And I can keep going even when I mess up, because I know that's the thing that's actually going to change the world. Like for myself, my values are connection and justice. And so when I am making a decision, I sort of hold those up in my mind and say, okay, does this further these two things? Or does it actually go against these two things? Or is it, am I trying to do a. Am I trying to cheat a little bit? And it's like neutral, you know, and if it's neutral, how can I get it to support these things? The self accountability and the loving accountability is like the positive. It's. It's not just what you do wrong, but it's also what you get right. And those have been some of the most meaningful moments in my nonprofit career. It's like getting it right according to the right people. Not always the people in power sometimes, often the people with the least power, like them saying, wow, I'm so glad you did that that way. Like that's a, that's a huge win. I think it's also. I know I answered the question. I'll make this second answer very short. I wrote a blog post earlier this year about making the right decisions. And being a leader right now is not about trying not to disappoint anyone, which is how I used to live my life and how I used to lead. It's about deciding who you are. Okay, Disappointing, because you cannot, because of all that gray area, because of all that nuance. You absolutely cannot please everyone. And you're just doing a huge disservice to yourself and everyone else if you try to do that. So decide ahead of time. Okay? You know what? I'm okay with disappointing that person because I really believe we have to do this thing that's gonna help this other person. Cause they really need it.
- [21:13]
B
Glenda, you are coming through this screen Talking to this 8 year old people pleasing kid over here, trying to like find their place in the world, you know, I mean I think so many people listening, like what a reframe? I think the positive to accountability is a massive reframe too because feedback is a gift. Like relationships that can show up in both ways are the greatest gifts, you know, in life. So yeah, thank you for, for that. I think this is so good. I want to. Something I wanted to ask you earlier that I think kind of relates is like how do you figure out what to focus on as a leader when everything feels urgent? Because yeah, I feel some days like it's whack a mole like in the arcade, it's like I'm moving from just like the boat. I tell Becky and Julie this all the time. I just feel like I'm in a canoe. And it's like the new leak springs up and it's like a plug it keep waiting and then another one. And it's like, how do you prioritize when every day in the news cycle alone we wake up and it's like something else happening? And to respond to, how do you stay the course?
- [22:24]
A
I think the way that I have done this best in my life, and I haven't always been successful at this, but I feel like the times when I'm like, yeah, I'm doing it, there's a lot of. There's urgent stuff. There's important stuff. There are deadlines. There are no deadlines, but it's like, this is really important. I can't forget about this. Even though it doesn't have a deadline. I guess I. I have two answers. One is, and I learned this from Joan very early on when I first was promoted at GLAD and became a leader. And she was, she likes to joke. And it seems true that the people that like, go to organization seminars or something are the people who are already organized because they're already, like, upset. They're like, oh, more organization. Yes.
- [23:14]
C
I think that's kind of sign me up.
- [23:17]
A
Yeah. I mean, how do you even make it there if you're not organized? Like, you wouldn't even. It wouldn't even cross your mind, you disorganized.
- [23:24]
B
Yeah.
- [23:25]
A
I remember asking Joan, and I'm a little old school in this way, but I'm going to be vulnerable and, and share with you all. Remember, grew up reading newspapers and we didn't have AI back then.
- [23:36]
B
Right.
- [23:37]
A
But on the left hand, I have like a, like a little notebook that I've had for my whole career. Seems like my whole life.
- [23:45]
C
Oh, John. John.
- [23:46]
A
Probably not. When I was a child.
- [23:50]
C
And he can never find a pen and I.
- [23:53]
A
On the left side, I used to write like, here are the big things I need to accomplish this week. Like, here are the big things I cannot forget about. Or they're like the ongoing priorities, you know, like, okay, this week might. Who knows what might happen? A crisis and anything. But these are the things I need to keep my. My eye on. And then the right hand side of the page is the to do list. And it's like, everything I need to get done by the. And then I circle the things that are like, I got to do this today. Today's the deadline. Got to do this. So it is about like prioritizing and organizing and figuring out you have to do a balance of what is urgent and what is important. Because if you only focus on the urgent, you're never going to do the important things. And if you only focus on what's important, but you ignore the urgent things, it's going to bite you in the butt and you might not have that job anymore. So you really, you really need to be able. And for me, I'm very visual. I needed to see both, to see both and really be able to balance that. We have an awesome tool that I created with the team at the lab last year about how to prioritize when everything feels urgent and more important. So if folks, you know, members of the lab get that for free and it's a really great tool. How do I decide what to do right now? And then what's next? And what's next? We just realized that that is, that's probably one of the most frequent questions that we get from leaders. It's like, there's so much stuff. It's all important, it's all urgent. How the heck do I figure out what to do first? So some tips and tools there for that.
- [25:47]
C
And we will definitely drop a link to the lab because we want you guys to go explore it. It is an incredible resource with such forward facing knowledge about what this sector needs to not only move its forward, but move its people healthily forward and in community and unity. So I really, really appreciate that. And I'm getting Seth Godin vibes. Do you remember Seth saying, you don't need more time, you just need to decide. Like that is sometimes the crutch of this.
- [26:18]
A
I think what I. One of the things I learned as a leader was how to say no. I, I would just. My inclination would be to say yes to everything. My inclination would be to try to please everyone and really getting into a leadership role and realizing, oh, I can't do that. Yeah, it's a recipe for like disaster. So I'm gonna have to say no to some things. I'm gonna have to disappoint some people who where like what? I completely agree and admire Seth. Usually it's not that we all have the same 24 hours. So it is like we need to decide how are you spending your time.
- [27:04]
C
And there's always gonna be too much to do. There's never gonna be a magic bullet tool that will do it all. So I do want to bring people back to you saying you have to disappoint people is part of that radical candor that I think was a part of your leadership style. And I think when people know the truth and you're upfront with them, like, they can lean into it. They can be a part of helping you troubleshoot it or solve it in a group. And so I think that what I'm saying is, please don't be alone and in your own head. And as we're talking about accountability and how hard we are on ourselves, I just want to tell you to, like, remember to love yourself. Well, in this, it's something that I struggle with. I'm very critical of all the things I didn't do right or I. Things that I missed. We do have to celebrate the good things. But on this podcast, we celebrate story, as you know, Glenda, and we want to know about a story or a moment where philanthropy, generosity, kindness, how everyone interpret that, how it came into your world and you felt utterly changed by it. What would be your story of philanthropy that stayed with you?
- [28:16]
A
This is my favorite question that you guys asked because it brought up so many examples of where I was like, gosh, I'm lucky. You know, you do. You have to celebrate the good and celebrate the wins. And the story I want to tell is one of, you know, being one of those executive directors going into the pandemic, not even knowing what the pandemic was until we were in it. And we were a community center. We were a, you know, we ran 99% in person. Things happened in the building. We did not have a huge technology infrastructure. We were not running a lot of online anything. It was all come to the building and do the thing. And so the building was shut down, and the economy was a huge question mark. What's going to happen? Are people going to give what you know? And so we were in the process of figuring out, and we had lots of folks who were employed to help run the building, and there was no running the building. Especially in the early days of the pandemic, we were closed. So we had to both, like, put everything online. And then we had to furlough staff who worked to, you know, keep up the building, because no one was in the building. And it was heartbreaking. And we did it as thoughtfully as we could. And one day I was at my desk and got a phone call from a person at a foundation. This is the Keith Haring Foundation. And she. She said. She. And the head of the foundation at the time said to me, look, we had been wanting to do this before, and we want to give a big gift to an organization that we feel like really helps the community. And we feel like it's the center. You know, Keith painted one of his murals in our second floor bathroom there. And so we're going to. We have his personal art collection. This is pieces that he collected from his artist friends, Basquiat and all kinds of really impressive folks, and Andy Warhol and, you know, all of those people. So we're going to auction it off, and we want to give you the money. And we think it might be half a million. A million dollars. And, you know, this was the pandemic. And we're like, oh, my God, this is gonna. Like, all of the worry and stress that I had about everything in that moment felt so relieved. And then they actually did what they said they were going to do, and they raised $3.5 million that they gave to us. So it was a moment for me of like, this is what philanthropy could and should be. And I'm saying I'm sharing this story now because I really want to encourage philanthropy to be bold. And I. I look, I know, I know. And have lived by the 5% rule and give away 5% of. Yeah, I can see John's eyes rolling. Rolling. And I'm like, this is not the. This is not the time. Like, this is not the time to stick to that rule. That's a stupid rule, you know, like, give what you can. And they were. They were sitting there and they're like, we have all this art, this priceless art we could sell. They could have sold that and put it back in their endowment and continued to give away 5%. And they chose not to. They said, we want to make a big transformational gift in the spirit of Keith and everything he believed in, because we want to help the community now. And so I was completely blown away and inspired by that and everybody that contributed to it. It was just amazing.
- [32:32]
C
And to think that they were so forward thinking to design a gift that would honor his legacy. And it's like the generosity would just keep rippling on and on and on and on. There's just so much to relate to in that story. I mean, just being a leader and just constantly walking around with that financial pressure, like, on you all the time is something that needs to be studied. But I just believe in the kindness of good people to do good things. And when we are so lucky to have them in our missions, like, then we've done something right because we have been a beacon for them to come to us. We've done Some things. Right. That is such a great, like, locking arms for impact story.
- [33:20]
A
Fantastic. Then it's also like a hang in there story. You know, we had. I did fundraising for capital campaign before that, and I went to the foundation and said, hey, can we have a big gift? You know, Keith did a pit. And they were like, no. And we didn't. Yeah, they were like, no. And this was years later, so we didn't. I'm saying that to the executive directors out there who have been disappointed and who hasn't. You know, where a foundation or a donor has said, no, don't give up. You know, we stayed in contact. We. We kept talking. We're like, these people are. They are in our circle. They are. You know, we care about the same things. And we kept them up to date and we invited them to things. And years later, this happened. We were not specifically cultivating. We didn't even know this existed.
- [34:13]
B
I'm just obsessed with the story. I mean, it speaks to our values. Playing the long game. I think it connects to this trust building thread of this whole conversation. The trust was there. So things move so much more quickly. Really. Just a powerful story. Everything you've said today, I'm just like, we don't need to do this alone on every level. So I want to kick it to you for a one good thing. You know, our traditions. Ask for a piece of advice or something to round out the episode. What's a one good thing? You leave with our community.
- [34:43]
A
Just jumping off of something you said, Becky, which is like, and this is a mantra of mine, of the lab. It's all the people I coach, all of the leaders out there in the nonprofit world. Don't try and go it alone. It's not going to work. It's much harder and it's much less fun.
- [35:08]
C
It's miserable.
- [35:09]
A
Much less fun. Like, the most fun I have had a nonprofit is linking arms with other people to try and do a really hard thing. That was really important. It's like you want inspiration and drama and, you know, excitement. That's where it is. That's where it is. It's not sitting on a zoom alone in your house, coming up with your big master plan. No, it is like working together in community, gathering people to try and make change. That is. That is how it happens. And so, you know, I. That can. It doesn't have to be big. It can be in your town, in your neighborhood, in your community and your. I just believe in the power of connections and people coming together. And it's one of the reasons I love your podcast so much. So keep doing it, guys.
- [36:09]
C
Our final core value is community is everything. And the ironic thing for a lot of people who know our community well is we only had seven when we launched and we didn't have that last community as everything. We discovered it as we were going along. And so please find somebody to link arms with if you're stuck somewhere. And I don't just mean stuck in your work, if you're stuck mentally, if you're stuck with other things going on in your life, please find someone. If you don't have a someone, reach out to us. We will be here. Someone. So, Linda, Absolutely. People are going to want to connect with you. We want links to the podcast. We want links to the nonprofit lab. Like tell everybody how they can connect with you and connect with your incredible community.
- [36:55]
A
Sure. So I am G Testone on Instagram and G Testone on Facebook and on LinkedIn. Glenda with two N's. Unique in that way. My, my grandfather was Glenn with two N's. So Glenda, test that and come check out the lab. It's non profit leadershiplab.com we have about 5, 500 members right now who are part of that community and growing. And it's just incredible. If you are one of those people that Becky and I were talking about that's out there alone, join, join immediately. You do not have to be alone. There are so many other people who are going through what you're going through. And we have so many people that join and say, I found my people, I have found, found my folks.
- [37:47]
C
So no more lonely fundraisers. We are here for it. So please go find Glenda. Find somebody. Pour into yourself. And Glenda, thanks for coming in here and blowing the water. I said blowing that. Blowing us out of the water with all of your amazing points. And I just love hanging out with you. I love your energy. And my highest core value is justice as well. So we are linked in that. Let's go do some more good justice work in this world.
- [38:18]
A
Awesome. Love it. Thank you both. Thank you, John and Becky. This is amazing. Anytime.