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We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits
689. No Human Is Illegal: Reclaiming the Immigration Narrative - Carmen Patlan, Center for Immigrant Progress
00:36:14
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- [00:03]
A
Go to a nonprofit in your community that works with immigrant community members. Get to know your neighbors, listen to the community that you're a part of. Don't listen to the headlines. Go and meet people where they're at, engage people in conversations, and get to know us.
- [00:23]
B
Hey, I'm John.
- [00:24]
C
And I'm Becky.
- [00:25]
B
And this is the We Hear for Good podcast.
- [00:28]
C
Let's get started.
- [00:31]
B
Hi, Becky. How's it going?
- [00:32]
C
I'm so excited for the community to have this conversation today. And I think I'm going to start it sort of in a non traditional Becky intro, because we're all watching what's happening with the world right now. We're all watching what's happening with our country. And immigration is just this nuance that keeps coming up over and over. So today I just want to thank everyone who push play on this podcast because we're about to have a conversation about what it means to love your neighbor, how to be hospitable, how to hear people's stories and understand that I am a product of immigrants who came over through Ellis island from Italy and immigrants built our country. And so we're going to do what we talk about all the time on the podcast, which is we're going to go straight to the front line and talk to the people who are closest to the work to really inform what is going on in this moment in time and how we can lean in. So it's really a privilege for me to introduce the community to Carmen Patlin. She is the executive director for the center for Immigrant Progress out of Chicago. And I got to give a shout out to Samantha Sears over at Pathway Giving, who connected me to Carmen. Thank you for this intro. And at cip, she and her team advance immigrant rights by connecting legal protection, health equity, civic engagement and advocacy into one powerful, comprehensive model. And throughout her career, she's transformed public libraries into nationally recognized hubs of community care. She's led pandemic response efforts that delivered Berace yourself 23,000 meals and vaccinated 3,000 residents. And she also became the first formally undocumented Latina to receive the National Medal for Museum and Library Service twice. So Carmen's leadership is absolutely rooted in lived experience. Her story is so powerful, we're going to get into it in this conversation. And she also just has this very deep commitment to dignity, resiliency, and self determination. And I think our open hearts and open minds are going to learn so much today. Carmen, welcome to the We Are For Good podcast. We're so glad you're here.
- [02:47]
A
Thank you so much, Becky and John, it's wonderful. And thank you for this opportunity to share our story from our own voice.
- [02:54]
C
We definitely want to give you the mic and you know, we start out our first question getting to know our audience and our guest and our. And we want to know about little Carmen growing up and how you got into this work. But I think I want to put a little twist on it and I want you to take me back to, I think it was seven year old Carmen and what her life was like and that journey from Mexico to the United States.
- [03:22]
A
Well, thank you, Becky. It's a hard story to share. The question often is, well, why do they come? Why are they here and why are they here illegally? And that's the one word that always drives me crazy when I hear people reference us as illegal humans. No human is illegal. But as a seven year old, my parents immigrated us here because sadly, in our hometown, in our country, there was a lot of danger for us, danger to us as a young family, sadly, with cartels. And so I would not be able to go back to my hometown. I haven't been back to my hometown in 40 plus years because of the uncertainty that is our reality in Mexico. But my parents were able to cross 7 of US undocumented through the border. We got here as undocumented immigrants. We didn't speak the language, we knew nothing about this country. We came into a school system that in the 70s didn't know how to work with us. Certainly there wasn't any ESL programming. So coming into a very strange world felt unbearable for us. But we were a tight family unit, we supported each other. And I remember, I think it was we got here in August and by October, something clicked in my brain and I knew how to speak English. I still don't know how to explain it, but I knew how to speak English. I understood what the teachers were saying. And so same reaction to the rest of my brothers and sisters. And so we all were able to communicate. We would laugh at each other like, wait, you're sounding so weird. But it's a new language that we just learned so quickly. And so the beauty of it is how children adapt and the resiliency that we have as we adapt to this new environment and this new world that we have now been blessed to be a part of for 53 years. And so that was, I mean, there's a whole slew of reasons why we fled to this country. My father was a migrant worker. He came every season and he worked the fields of California he, he was a lumber, he picked apples, he did all the, the field work. And he saw that there was bigger, better opportunities for his family, a safer environment, a free country that his family could thrive in. And so when he went back to Mexico and saw the uncertainty of where we were living, then that's when he decided and it was a difficult choice. People that just don't pick up and leave. It was a difficult choice to pick up everything, sell everything that he owned, and then utilize that little funding to transport all of us to this country. And then here he worked very hard to fulfill that American dream, right? Owning a house, working a, a hard job, retiring with a pension. He did all of those things and all of his children grew up here safe being productive members of society. And so it's a proud moment for me to look back at how hard my parents worked to bring us here, but also how much we have been able to contribute to this country. And so I think that that's often ignored or often not recognized that we truly have and are continuously contributors for the better of this country.
- [07:07]
B
I mean, thank you for taking us back to some of those fragile moments of your journey. And I think, you know, as someone who would say leaving the country to travel has like completely changed my life and changed the trajectory of how I see the world and understand things that I'm pained. Like it's, it's, it's painful to watch how misunderstood so many people are right now that are in circumstances like you described. And we want to use today's platform is just to name some of these things. What do you believe after going through the lived experience and now you work on the front lines with, you know, immigrants? As an executive director, what do you wish that people understood about immigration that you only could really know from living it?
- [07:56]
A
The immigration system has intentionally been broken. We don't have or we've never had a just immigration process. When you speak to an immigration attorney and you ask them about a case, their response is always going to be, well, it all depends. It all depends on how you entered. It all depends on who's petitioning you. It all depends what country you're coming in from. It all depends. There is never a clean cut answer to the question. ICE didn't exist prior to 9 11. It's interesting that right prior to 9 11, President Bush was going to present a comprehensive immigration reform package to Congress. But it all went down the drain after 9 11. And so the last adjustment to the immigration process was done by Ronald Reagan in the 80s. That allowed a specific number of individuals to obtain status since then. There is approximately 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country who have been here 20, 30 plus years, yet they cannot obtain status because it all depends on how you entered, when you entered. And so there's never a clean cut response. The immigration system, let's say I want to petition someone, I want to petition my sister from Mexico. Mexico has a specific timeline of how far out they are for petitions. So right now, if I'm petitioning my sister, who may qualify for. Has all of the prerequisites, My sister has to wait in line 26 years because they're six years.
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C
This is the most shocking stat that I heard from you, 26 years.
- [09:55]
A
Because the applications that are being reviewed, they're 26 years out. So in order for my sister's application to be reviewed, it's 26 years away. And none of it is for certain your application will be reviewed. And, and if you meet all the protocols and all the prerequisites, you may have a possibility of coming of entering the country. So every country has an allotment of visas. So once those visas have for the year have already been filled, then you have to wait till the following year and the following year. So it's not as, it's not that simple that, you know, people think, well, why don't they just legalize? Well, it's not that simple. It's a giant puzzle and confusing process until you really understand the ins and outs and the in depth complexity of immigration. Can you make a call like that? Now if I came into this country with a tourist visa and I came in legally, I happen to be here for a few months, I meet the love of my life and I decide to risk it and to overstay my visa. That has happened so many times where individuals overstay their visa and they'd rather risk it all than to go back to uncertainty. I was in Mexico last week and I'm sure you're all aware of what is going on in Mexico with the cartels. I was literally at the precise area in Jalisco where this cartel situation occurred. So it's very, very uncertain. You know, when you go to a touristy location or resort, it's a different vibe than when you go to your hometowns. When you go to your hometowns, you see the reality when people who are here are being deported back to their country, often they're being deported to death because when you go back, the hometown knows that you've been in this country for 20 something years, that you probably have some money, that you probably build a life over here. And now they're going to use extortion to get to you or potentially take your life. And so that's the reality that our families are dealing with on a day in and day out basis. The uncertainty, the sadness that you really have no options to obtain status. And. And then also the reality that I walk around with a target on my back because I'm a brown skinned person. So the reality also is the labeling of us, the dehumanization of us. And so I'm sharing this story and I'm sharing this podcast in the hope that people who are listening can see that we are not illegal human beings, that we are productive members of society, that sadly, we had to make this trip to a strange country very much like your ancestors did, especially you, Becky. You can still relate. And so our ancestors didn't flee just for the joy of it. They fled because their lives depended on it. And so that's the same thing with us. It's just a different era, a different time, and a different race that's doing it.
- [13:08]
C
I just want to thank you for sharing all of this because I recognize how much of an emotional and mental toll this must take to endure. And you're enduring it in my mind, like in several different ways. You're enduring it from your lived experience professionally with the friends that you make and the people that you help. And I thank you for bringing us back to center on our humanity. I do want to talk a little bit about what you're doing over at the center for Immigrant Progress. I think the thing that I like about it is it doesn't just offer these services. It's just so baked in dignity and safety and preparedness. And so we absolutely want to know about your programs, but we also want to know why your mission is so important right now.
- [13:58]
A
The center for Immigrant Progress was started by six young women who have mixed status. A couple of them are still undocumented. They have daca. And so, you know, the DACA program is the deferred action for Unaccompanied minors. They are still. It's an uncertain uncertainty every day, the dreamers. But it was started by six young women who really wanted to see a different kind of leadership program, a different kind of nonprofit that would also empower them. And so when this, it's been in existence for six years. It was all volunteer run prior to me coming. But when this administration, the first round of this administration, these six young women felt the uncertainty, their status was in jeopardy, their well being was in jeopardy. And so they started this nonprofit with the hope that they could continue to help individuals like themselves pursue that their ongoing education. They provided scholarships to DACA recipients, scholarships to DACA renewals. A renewal process for DACA is a little under $700. A lot of these individuals don't have that luxury to have just $700 waiting around every two years to renew your status. And so they also felt the need to help educate with Know youw Rights and with as much information to have families be prepared. So fast forward to this past year. In July, they recruited me to come here. I'm their inaugural executive director. And as their Executive director, I want to keep making them proud. And so the center for Immigrant Progress has now grown. We now have a director of Legal and Civic Engagement, a manager that also supports with Legal and Civic Engagement, a Health and Wellness director, and then a Health and Wellness manager. And then we have an extensive internship program for social workers who want to come in and intern with us to continue to build their skills around this work. CIP offers extensive immigration support for immigrants who can't afford to go get an assessment by an immigration attorney. We work with pro bono attorneys to provide immigration assessments every Tuesday. As a matter of fact, next door we have booked appointments all the way, every Tuesday, all day, every half hour. So these assessments allow individuals to really understand what options they have or they may not have. If you know that you don't have any pathway towards status, then and if you do encounter ICE and ICE does detain you, then you know how to make your decision. Either you're going to decide to sign your self deportation or your immediate deportation or you're going to risk being incarcerated for an uncertain amount of time. And so we all know that the prison system right now is a big, big luxury business, right? For every person that is detained, the prison system makes $150 a night. So for every detainee, the longer they keep you, the more money the prison system makes. And so we educate our community members to understand your options so that you make an informed decision if ICE does come and detain you. That preparedness plan also includes what will happen to my home. Now I've been here 25, 30 years. I've been able to purchase a home, I've been able to purchase my vehicles, I have my own landscaping company or whatever. Then you want to make sure that you know what to do, that you are transferring your belongings to someone that could manage those accounts for you. Whether your banking account, your D for your home, the titles to your vehicles. Someone has to be able to manage that. If you're no longer in the picture, if you have younger children, then that means you need to get short term guardianships in place so that someone knows what to do with your children in case you do get detained and or deported. So all of that emergency preparedness and all of those plannings need to be something that families work out. And so we have a program that's called living while prepared versus living while you're in fear. Fear isn't going to get us anywhere, just we need to know how to be prepared. And so that preparedness also is, I know my rights. So if ICE is going to come knock at your door, they need to show you a judicial warrant. If they don't have a judicial warrant, you don't need to let them in, don't open the door. And if they do say they have a warrant, don't open the door, slide it under your door, show it through your window. And that warrant has to state everything, exactly who they're looking for, the address, the date, the time, and then a signature from a judge. If it doesn't have that, then it's not a valid warrant. So our job is to really educate our community. What are your rights? Understand them, practice them, have an emergency plan in place and then know what to do if you are encountering this situation. And the other part is we make up 20% of the race in this country, yet we are the least represented demographic in seats of power. So the civic engagement piece and the leadership development piece is we have a program that's called Rise and Lead. This program is a 16 session, 8 month program that is working to empower people of color to understand the power of the seat, why my vote is important and why legislators need to hear me and include me in their platform. Until we're holding legislation accountable, we won't be heard, we won't be represented. So we need to have representation and understand why it's important that we run for office and that we are represented in seats of power and that our voice is heard. The other part of what CIP is focusing on is wellness. We have seen so many children struggle with trauma because their parents, the uncertainty of their parents not coming home or parents that are already detained. These children are having so many anxiety issues, so much trauma that's being experienced by these children. And so our health and wellness program focuses on providing mental health support free of cost to these families and also families that are afraid to go out to Work. If you don't go to work, you don't have the ability to pay for your rent. You don't have the ability to pay your bills or keep your phone going. And so we're fundraising constantly to provide relief for these, for these families. And I can tell you, I have countless family members who, we buy their food every week. And then the other work that we're working on launching is a rebuilding our narrative. We have been dehumanized, we have been labeled and all lumped into one category of murderers, rapists, drug dealers, and the worst of the worst. Clearly, that is not the facts. That is not the case. And so we want to build a podcast. We're in the process of launching a podcast series that's called sonyando, which means Dreamers through the Eyes of Immigrants. And so we need to share our own story. We need to create our own narrative and publicize it, because our narrative is not what is being shared of us. So the center for Immigrant Progress is here to bridge the gaps between service and to also empower our community with knowledge and resources to help them thrive and to not live in fear.
- [21:59]
C
I think what's coming up in my heart is I just want to say I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry this has happened to you. And you being proverbial everyone, and I think that you're reminding us that at the basis, it's not a political issue, it's not an economic issue, it's not our naturalization issue. It is a human issue. And so I just. I think what I want to ask you is you've kind of mentioned that immigrant stories are often told about people, not by them. What changes would immigrants get to tell their own stories and their own voices? What would that mean? Because I'm so proud of you for starting this podcast and I have such high hopes for it. Let us know when you're going to drop it. We would love to amplify it, but, like, how can we give agency back to these immigrants?
- [22:54]
A
Yes. You know, other people sharing our story is what I just shared with you. It is. You're gonna. You're gonna share what's on the headlines. You're gonna share what you're hearing on social media. But when people share their own story, they share the complexity. Their dreams, their humor, their anxieties. You are going to hear the humanity. You're also going to hear the leadership, the leadership that we bring to the space. But empowering individuals to share and to bear witness for themselves is, again, is re. Empowering. What has been stripped of us. When you hear the complexities of our own stories from our own voice, then you're able to rehumanize us. You know, I always talk about a quote from Maya Angelou that says we are more alike than not. And so we are one human race. And so race should not define who we are. Humanity should define who we are. And so for this human to be able to speak for herself, what makes me dream, what makes me joyful, what makes me fearful, what makes me anxious. And that others may listen to this voice and feel empathy, compassion. And so once we build that empathy, that compassion and the humanness, we will all be able to live more harmonious in a world that belongs to all of us.
- [24:31]
B
I mean, I think thank you for upholding the way, finding the humanity when that's not the norm, you know, at this moment. So thank you for being a stronghold for that. And also thank you for leaning into the complexity of this. I think what I was very moved by, and you talk about the vision and how CIP shows up. This is like meeting people in every aspect of it and also playing the long game, knowing that this is a long. Some things are going to take a long time to transform.
- [25:00]
A
Yes.
- [25:01]
B
So I appreciate the complexity that you're willing to step into and name. And I think there's a lot of people listening today that are your believers in this, that. I hope so. People that care, that feel motivated, but probably feel overwhelmed by the complexity of the situation and unsure of, like, what to do. So I'd love to invite you to share what's a meaningful action, something that people could do today that doesn't perpetuate more harm, but that would actually be helpful.
- [25:34]
A
You're doing it right. You reached out to me. You're having a conversation with me. You're getting to know me, a previously undocumented immigrant. I'm still an immigrant. I still look like I look. I am who I am. And you're sitting here having a conversation with me. So I would encourage the listeners, your followers, your neighbors to get to know us, to go to a nonprofit in your community that works with immigrant community members or that works with the less fortunate with underserved. Go to a food pantry, get to know your neighbors, and get to see and hear their humanity. And then don't let it just go in one ear and out the other, but look for ways on how you're able to support, how you're able to provide just a listening ear. Sometimes that's all people want, is just someone to Listen to me with empathy and to give me some words of encouragement. You know, oftentimes we have volunteers who say, I want to do something. I want to do something that's meaningful. Yes. Also donate to food banks, donate to nonprofits that are doing this work. I often say, and Becky, you could relate to this. Nonprofits are also in survival mode. We're in survival mode working with survival mode communities. And so fund nonprofits. Donate. Even if it's the smallest dollar amount, it makes the biggest difference. And so really, what I would say is listen to the community that you're a part of. Don't listen to the headlines. Go and meet people where they're at, engage people in conversations, and get to know us.
- [27:23]
C
I can always tell who a true community builder is when they don't just say, give to my nonprofit. They talk about the scaffolding all around them. But we're curious, from your perspective about a story in your life where generosity, kindness, or philanthropy played a very instrumental role. Is there one that's bubbling up for you that you would share?
- [27:51]
A
Yes. I went to speak at a local community, and it was to a group of white individuals. Because I went and I spoke, and they asked me, well, what can we do? And I said, use your white privilege. Use your white privilege, please, in these moments of difficulty for us that can't. But while I was presenting there, this couple came up to me and they said, we don't have much, but we have a large home, and it would be open to receive a family that needs to be housed. Oh, my God. And then so. So I have them as a potential volunteer to host a family, and we had to, sadly, utilize that support. Those kinds of neighborly humanitarian aids are priceless. But the other part was we now have a monthly donation coming from this couple. I got two checks, and so I called them and I said, was it a mistake? Did you intend to send two checks? Did you intend. Because I want to make sure. And they said, no, we've made a monthly commitment to you now because you're a silent hero. And I never want to be viewed as a silent hero. I just. I feel responsible. I feel responsible to my community because I don't. I don't have that deep struggle. Even though I have to carry my passport and my wallet, I still have a passport. I still have a naturalized status. I don't. I don't have that layer of fear over me, and I feel responsible to my community. And so I didn't have to come and do this work. I chose to come and do this work because shame on me if I have the skill set or the ability and the know how and I don't utilize it for the betterment of others. And so this is why I was so compelled to come and do this with you, Becky and John, because you're doing this for the good and the betterment of others. And so this podcast is important. The words that we share in this podcast are important for people to hear and also want to pay it forward and want to do good. And so that's the story that surfaces for me, is the little acts of kindness that go so far.
- [30:25]
B
I just appreciate you naming what we think is just something that we've learned through this. It's not the nonprofit space that's going to fix everything. It's all of us figuring out what we have to bring, we have to bear. Some people can loan their mics. We happen to have some mics that we can loan out. You know, and some people can design a poster. Some people can make a post today. And some people can give and like, it's. We have to have this fundamental belief that we're needed in this to bring what we have to offer. And you offered that up in your career right now. And so I just want to acknowledge that and call that out that there's a lot of fear in the world today. There's a lot of darkness, but there is also a lot of hope by us doing what we can do with what we've got, you know, and thank you for kind of re centering us and bringing that. I want to invite you to just share like a. What's a one good thing that you're seeing in front of you, Maybe something that's bringing you hope right now and maybe it's that that you've us into. But we always end with a one good thing. And I just want to give you opportunity for something that's bubbling up maybe in your gut right now.
- [31:37]
A
I think one good thing that comes to surface for me is who I'm seeing standing shoulder to shoulder with us. There is a great deal of support that, that maybe wasn't there, that or maybe hadn't surfaced. But to see a community that is so caring and so, so willing to go to bat for us, that is willing to stand shoulder to shoulder to defend who we are as a people, is something that I will always acknowledge and be grateful for. So I appreciate, I appreciate the opportunity to speak to a community that may not have gotten to know me before, to a community that is interested in getting to know me as a human, that gives me hope.
- [32:27]
C
You know, there's so many powerful quotes about this. And I like Carlos Fuentes and he always talks about we must all be immigrants in the world because it makes us citizens of a wider humanity. And I thank you for that invitation. I thank you for being so vulnerable and so open here with us. How can listeners connect with you? Where do you hang out? Online. We want to know how to connect with center for Immigrant Progress. What's the best way that people could connect with you and your mission?
- [32:58]
A
You can find us on every media channel@ciplaycounty.org okay, one more.
- [33:06]
C
Because we do this with people who come on with missions. What does center for Immigrant Progress need right now the most? What can this community do to show up? If there was one thing, we need support.
- [33:18]
A
Without financial support, we cannot exist. We are a nonprofit. We are a grassroots nonprofit started by visionary undocumented immigrants who had a dream for a better world for themselves and a better world for others like them. And so we need donations in any form. A monthly donation, a one time donation, whatever you're able to provide or support. And if you are an immigration attorney and you may be interested in doing some pro bono work, we don't have to be in this state. You could be anywhere and be willing to do free legal consultations. If you are in Lake county and you're listening to this and you want to volunteer, please reach out to us. We are looking for volunteers, but again, support financially. Ciplakecounty.org volunteers. And if you're an immigration attorney, you're willing to provide some pro bono work, please let us know.
- [34:20]
C
Thank you. Carmen, you have set the tone here with unity is the answer and collectivism is the work now. So we are rooting for you mightily. And please call in this community when you need us.
- [34:34]
A
Thank you so much. Thank you so much, Becky and John, I really appreciate this platform.