← We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits
We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits
693. Despair Is Paralyzing, Hope Is Galvanizing: Afdhel Aziz's Three-Step Playbook for Stories That Move People to Action
00:37:22
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- [00:03]
A
Back in 2010, there was a 4% gap between hope and despair. Guess how much it is right now. 27%. Despair is paralyzing and hope is galvanizing. And when you look at the only thing big enough to fill that gap, the answer is culture. You know, the answer is culture and storytelling. Because I think stories are the most powerful vehicle to communicate hope.
- [00:29]
B
Hey, I'm John.
- [00:30]
C
And I'm Becky.
- [00:31]
B
And this is the We Are for Good podcast.
- [00:33]
C
Let's get started.
- [00:36]
B
Becky, what's happening?
- [00:37]
C
We have someone in the house that I've wanted to make my friend for, like ever since we started this. Yeah, it was like Dolly Parton stalked him for like Michelle Obama and afdals. And he's here. What a big day.
- [00:49]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's a huge honor to be talking to afdalaziz today. We. Here's the thing, if you've listened to the podcast for long, you know that we believe that storytelling is the heartbeat of connection. It's one of our core values that we are for good when we first started in 2020, because story is what opens the door to empathy. And we just believe that's fundamental to actually change the world. And today's guest, he has spent his entire life proving that at scale. And so Afdal, I'm so excited for you to know. If you don't follow his work already, he's a storytelling expert. He's had more than 30 years of experience advising some of the world's most recognized brands. And I could list them off, just impress you for days, but we're talking the likes of Gap and Adidas and Disney and Coca Cola. And that's all through his strategic consultancy called Conspiracy of Love. But he also has this really beautiful creative studio called Good is the New Cool. You know, we are like brothers from another mother over here with this love of the word good. He's a best selling author of the Purpose trilogy, he's a Forbes contributor, he's a TEDx speaker and award winning poet and filmmaker. And so we really wanted to have this conversation because in a world right now where AI is changing everything about how we work and communicate, Afdal has put his flag in the ground around this really bold thesis that the most powerful skill any leader can build right now, it's not technical, it's storytelling. And so today is gonna be a real heart focused conversation on this about what does it look like to scale belief. You know, one of our core values is it's not about giving, it's about belief. And he's Gonna walk us through some of that today. But also just like how to dig in and harness the power of storytelling to inspire action, to build trust. There's that word again. And lead with clarity even in the middle of uncertainty. Aftal it's taken five years to get you here, my friend. You were worth the wait. Good to see you. Thanks for coming.
- [02:37]
A
Oh my God, I feel overwhelmed. Me and Michelle Obama. That's like a high bar, guys.
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C
Coming up, you, Michelle Dali, the trifecta. Yes.
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A
I love what you guys are doing and I'm here to support and yeah, I can't wait to have this conversation and dive in.
- [02:52]
B
Well, we're grateful. And I mean, some of our audience may not be familiar with your work, so we always love to start with taking us back to the beginning. I mean, what are some formative experiences of your story growing up that shaped you into the person you are in the world and how you show up with this purpose driven work.
- [03:09]
A
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. So a little bit of context and history. I was born in Sri Lanka, which is a little tiny island off the south coast of India and grew up there. I went to London to study, I studied English literature, I studied media and communications. And then when the time came to get a job, I really wanted to be a journalist or a writer. And unfortunately nobody was handing out work permits to journalists in London in the 2000s. So I kind of by accident did a summer internship at Procter and Gamble and that turned into a 20 year career in marketing. I worked for Procter and Gamble and Nokia in London back when there was a large company called Nokia. And then I moved to New York in, in 2007 when I, you know, met my wife and worked for Absolut vodka and Heineken and did a lot of cool stuff right throughout. Lots of music partnerships with Lady Gaga and the Coachella Music Festival and all of these fun things. And then the strangest thing happened, which is the cool stopped being cool. You know, I kind of done everything I wanted to do. I say the 17 year old kid would be astounded at what the 37 year old kid was doing, but it kind of felt meaningless, you know. And that was when I started writing that first book, Good is the New Cool, with my dear friend, fellow dad and business now business partner, Bobby Jones. And that book came out in 2016, 10 years ago now. And the message to brands was, hey, you need to start thinking about doing good just as much as being cool. And that really was kind of the genesis of this kind of second half. Of my career that I've been fortunate enough to go on.
- [05:02]
C
What's so cool to hear about that story is those of us who've known you for quite a while, and you've been saying that and beating that drum beat. I mean, you literally have a TEDx talk around it. And now you have an entire generation who is, like, living in this way. You know, I think Gen Z is just so cool in the way that they've made generosity cool and made it a part of their fiber and their being. And I just think that's probably why we found you so early, is because this language of love and authenticity and helping your neighbor, it seems so disruptive back then, which seems so bizarre. And now we're sitting in this time in history where there's so much chaos and division around us, and that is what we crave. And so I want to get into just the storytelling element, because that is your wheelhouse. You are such a good storyteller, and you, I know John teases a little bit in the introduction, but you were talking about, you know, in a world where AI is scaling execution, the real bottlenec for your story and your message actually getting through is alignment. It's about meaning. It's about belief, and that storytelling is going to bridge the gap between everything. What does that sort of belief mean for a nonprofit leader trying to move people to action today? What would you say to them?
- [06:31]
A
Yeah, you know, so my obsession with storytelling dates back to my, you know, youngest years. I used to write really dark short stories where everybody died when I was, like, 12 or 13. My mother was very worried about me.
- [06:45]
C
It's great. I wanted to be Stephen King when I was 11. So we're in the same, like, path. Great. We found the good.
- [06:52]
A
Yes. But, yeah, I think I've always been fascinated with how, like, words move people, you know, And I think that's where storytelling is hard coded into us as human beings. You know, anybody can tell a story. Anybody can tell a story starting with once upon a time and ending in happily ever after. Right. It's something we've absorbed since we were babies. And I think that's where in the world of corporate corporations, strategy is often held up to be the most paramount skill, technical skill. Right. But as somebody wise said, culture eats strategy for breakfast. And especially last year, when you saw all these changes happen, happened in the zeitgeist, all these companies and all of these organizations that had held up things like DEI and sustainability from a strategic perspective kind of folded and they kind of went underground. And it was kind of for those of us in the space, it was. It was shocking, though, in. In hindsight, we should have seen it coming, you know, we should have realized that every two steps forward, one step back. Right. I think what I realized then was that there was something bigger than strategy, and I think that's storytelling. Because the stories we tell about ourselves, whether it's the stories we tell as a leader about ourselves or our team, about our nonprofit organization, about our company, about the time that we're in, is more powerful than strategy. And I think that's where I realized that there was an opportunity to take this thing that I was so passionate about and had done for a while, you know, in terms of brand storytelling, and now really merged with Impact. And that's where good is a new cool. The creative studio is now focused on this mantra of stories that fill the hope gap. And this is this. The hope gap is something I stumbled upon a few years ago. There's an actual measurable gap in society around hope. This is something that's being measured by the Yale center on climate change since 2010. Back in 2010, there was a 4% gap between hope and despair. Guess how much it is right now?
- [09:09]
C
I'm afraid to ask, honestly.
- [09:12]
A
Give me some numbers.
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C
I don't want it to be higher than 10% or 15%, but I know it is.
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A
I know it is 27%. There is a 27% gap between hope and despair. And when you look at this, and this is about climate change, but I think it's a good proxy for just society in general. Right?
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C
Yeah.
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A
And the way we look at it is that, you know, despair is paralyzing and hope is galvanizing. Right. And when you look at the only thing big enough to fill that gap, the answer is culture. You know, the answer is culture and storytelling. That's where. Now, my thesis is that culture sits upstream from capitalism. And now what we need to do is to infuse culture with new stories. And that starts with a new story about what humanity tells itself. And this is where in one of the talks I do, I talk about how I asked ChatGPT to make me a list of 100 movies about the end of the world and the apocalypse and spat out a list of 100 movies and TV shows. I asked it to make me a list of 100 movies about how to avoid the apocalypse. Zero.
- [10:30]
B
It's true. Yeah. Yikes.
- [10:33]
A
As you think about this, there is this constant kind of drumbeat in culture, which is, hey, we've messed up and there's nothing we can do about it. Right? And that's where I feel like hope is such an essential tool to bring back. And it's really interesting when you look at hope itself. It's not this Pollyanna, ish, kind of like, you know, fluffy thing. It's actually this incredibly durable, resilient thing that can be operationalized, you know? And there's a wonderful book coming out by Barbara Perry and Harry Hudson. I gotta give him a shout out. It's called Hope at Work. And it talks about how you can put hope to work, to change organizations. And now that's where my particular obsession with storytelling and hope intersect, because I think stories are the most powerful vehicle to communicate hope, to get people engaged and inspired, whether they're in a Fortune 500 company or in a nonprofit.
- [11:32]
B
I love where you're going with this, and I feel aligned in kinship with this pursuit that you have. I was walking through our library a couple weeks back, and they always have, like, the best, like, used books in the front section. And I picked up one called the Book of Hope with written by Jane Goodall, you know, and I feel like the person that read it before me was, like, so aligned because they're circling all the stuff that I feel really inspired by. But what stuck out to me is that, you know, she had a lot of reason to, like, feel the despair or, like, just watching forests get decimated and species going extinct and all these sorts of things. But she's like, you know, nature is resilient at its core and looks at that as, like, a model for us to look at, to see the resiliency come through in the very core of how nature shows up. And I think I'm making the connection because you're saying we need to be able to see things that we want to become. Like, it's so much rooted in our identity, and there's these pictures around us. So how can we help create some of those pictures for other people to help pave the way? Because certainly it's going to be quite disruptive right now if we can't even find a film, you know, that stands up to the hope that we're trying to build? So I guess I want to ask you about that hope gap. I mean, how can nonprofits lean into that and tell stories that bring that to light or bring that alive in a real, tangible way? What does that look like?
- [12:57]
A
Let's start by looking at most nonprofit storytelling, right? You guys are experts in the space. I would say that 90% of nonprofit storytelling is about the problem and the issue.
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C
There you go.
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A
Yeah, I think that, you know, that's where we all know the cliche of the, you know, Sarah McLachlan, black and white. If you look at the effectiveness. You guys have heard of compassion fatigue, right? I think that's where, yes, I'm sure it does work to a certain extent, but what about the 10% of your stories that focus on how you solve the problem and the lives of people who were changed because you solved the problem? And so showing that to people, whether they're donors or volunteers or whoever else, and saying, hey, look at what happens when. When we've actually fixed a problem is the challenge I put to the nonprofit industry. Right. Again, I go back to. Despair is paralyzing. Hope is galvanizing. And so my simple prescription is spend a little bit of your budget talking about how it's worked, how you have made, you know, some progress, how you have, you know, covered some ground in solving the problem. I think that's where there's a muscle missing in storytelling that makes it, like, a little bit hard to do that. And I can. I can unpack a little bit of what we found to do with things like tone, to do with things like expectations, But I think that's where we feel it's time for a new type of impact storytelling. And ironically, the answer is in the name of a book we wrote in 2016. Like, what happens if you wrap cool around good, right? And by cool, I mean joy, optimism, you know, fun, excitement. Right? And bring people into this storytelling who may otherwise have been turned off.
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B
Right?
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A
So good. I'm sure you have. As I have the Netflix cue of good intentions, which are all the documentary.
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C
I'm calling it that forever. Forever. Now it's like, oh, I've got to
- [15:04]
A
watch that documentary about whales being killed in Japan. Like, I have to watch this, and I'm never going to watch them.
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B
Right.
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A
You know why? Because they're going to depress the hell out of me. Right?
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C
It is.
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A
And I also call it, like, you know, the impact storytelling. That's the 2000 views on YouTube problem.
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C
Explain.
- [15:26]
A
You make these stories and, you know, nobody watches these things on YouTube. They just sit there. And I remember once we had a conversation with, I'll just say, a famous sports brand whose marketing would get literally tens of millions of views the minute it dropped on YouTube, but whose impact storytelling would get 2,000 views. To us, that's like an opportunity to say, okay, how can we create a new genre almost of impact storytelling, right? Where you, you are still starting with the problem, right? You gotta have a little bit of dark to talk about the light. But instead of focusing on the problem, you focus on the solutions. Instead of focusing on doom and gloom, you focus on possibility. And we got a chance to try this out last year when we did our docu series, the Solutionaries with Time Studios, Incredible partners. Check them out. We were working with a not for profit, the Project Management Institute, which is the largest certifier of project managers globally. They're an incredible organization. They're part educational establishment, part community, part kind of, you know, body that helps raise the bar. And their problem was that nobody was looking at project management as a career path, especially amongst Gen Z. And so we developed this show, the Solutionaries, which is about three game changing climate entrepreneurs, one working in food, in fashion, in AI and robotics. And each of them are using project management as a way to execute against the promise of their idea. And we produce these three nine minute films. You can see them on time.com, you Google the solutionaries and if you go watch them, you see what we mean. These shows have color, they have movement, they have energy, they're cool. And so if you said to somebody, hey, will you watch this climate change documentary? I think nine times out of 10 people are like, I'm going to put that in my Netflix queue and I'm going to get to that, right? Yeah. But by seducing people and helping them kind of have an easy way into a topic. That's how I think we get into a much bigger audience of people who need to become galvanized to take action, to solve these problems. So we're kind of like figuring out this new formula, this new genre. But I'm really excited about the potential for us to go beyond the kind of tired tropes of impact storytelling and find a fresh new way to do this work.
- [18:06]
C
Now is the time, now is the time to try it. Because I think what you're saying that's both exciting and holds a lot of promise is the reframe of what storytelling is and who gets to be the author and who gets to own the narrative, which is deeply important. Actually that's come up a lot, I feel like on the podcast recently. But this notion that can we create cultures of storytelling around our cause, where everyone can see themselves not only as the storyteller, but the story solver, you know, as someone who could come in and actually be the funder, be the person who creates the story that goes viral or whatever it is, what we're aiming for is that the right people are seeing the right message for which they are connected and want to get called in on. And I want to double click on something that you actually mentioned that your team has found. You found this way.
- [19:04]
A
You.
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C
You mentioned to like break through this noise in a new way. Love your take on that as well.
- [19:09]
A
Yeah. You know, it's really interesting when you look at the biggest stories of our time. Right. And you look at filmmakers who are making them. Right. Avatar is a movie about the environment. It's about indigenous tribes rising up against corporations to tackle the problem of environmental degradation and biodiversity loss. That's a multi billion dollar movie franchise right now. I'm not suggesting that we all have, you know, James Cameron level budgets, but look at the way they. He wrapped that topic in entertainment and storytelling. He had characters that you wanted to root for. He had stakes. He used design, he used color, he used music to engage you with emotion. And I think this is really the message here. Every single nonprofit has incredibly emotional stories of the people that they've helped. If you can go and find those stories and then partner with incredible storytellers like we had the privilege of doing. The Time Studios folks are incredible storytellers. Right. And you choose to lean in to the possibility and the solutions and highlight that aspect. So by the end of that piece of storytelling, you're feeling hopeful. Right. And you want to do something I go back to. Despair is paralyzing. Hope is galvanizing. If you can leave people with the message of, yes, things are tough, but smart people with big hearts and big brains are figuring this stuff out. And here's how you can help them push this button. Fundraise. Donate. Share the story. Volunteer. Like, that is the new kind of flywheel that we want to unleash. Right? And so that's where it's really funny. There is incredible stories in storytellers, in advertising who know how to make something in 30 seconds look so good that you are like dialed in and you're feeling a lump in your throat or you're feeling excited or pumped. Work with them. Go talk to them and say, help us take these incredible stories that we have. Make them more emotional, make them more compelling. So by the end of it, you have people saying, sign me up. I want to get involved in whatever this organization is doing. I'm wearing this T shirt today, Just Choose Love sweatshirt, because not only is it an incredible nonprofit that I'm honored to be on the board of the US board. Go check them out. ChooseLove.org. they're an incredible refugee and humanitarian nonprofit. They raised $100 million so far for causes around the world. And they do incredible work all over the world. But the way they do it is super interesting. Go look at their Instagram page and go look at the videos they do. They have celebrities like Benedict Cumberbatch and people like that who do really funny content for them. They do a store every year in London where you can walk into the store and buy refugee goods. You can buy, like, first aid kits and torches and, you know, food. But they have celebrities come and run the store. And they. I think they had Chris Martin from Coldplay come and busk, you know, and play guitar in front of the store. Amazing. And. And this is a remarkably powerful way to get people involved and engaged in something that could be really depressing. Right. And find a way to choose love and also, like, choose joy in how you get involved in the story. And so that's where I feel like we've all just gotten to this point where there's almost like a cliched way of doing impact storytelling, and we have to find a new way of doing it. So my mantras were like, no black and white. You were banned from using black and white imagery. No minor key music. No minor key, no ceremony.
- [23:16]
C
I was just thinking arms of an angel comes up and starts. Christian.
- [23:21]
A
No, no. And use wonder. Use kind of storytelling to spark wonder, to spark inspiration. I feel like it's just the gear that we need to find, you know, that's different. And so that's where we're developing, like seven or eight different shows now. Undergood is a new cool where each time we're taking a different topic, but wrapping it in fun and joy and cool. And trying to reach a wider audience as well with this message.
- [23:50]
B
Just so obsessed with this conversation, the way you think about this, because it's almost like we're expecting too much from our audience, from people that don't know us, but we can offer a pathway to come to a solution, to be part of the joy, to be part of the uplift, to be part of the hope. And everybody is looking for that. So I'm really interested in your framework because you go from awareness to belief, which I think is so powerful, that leads into action. What does that look like in practice? How do you kind of think about moving an audience through those steps that ultimately inspires the call to action, that all the organizations listening are like, yeah, we have things we want people to do.
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A
Yeah.
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B
What about this framework? Kind of helps get People there.
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A
Well, I'll start by redefining the audience a little bit. Right. And we define the audience as the activists and the advocates. 10% of people are activists. I'm talking about, like, go march in the street, get involved, roll up your sleeves and do stuff. I believe 90% of people are advocates or allies who are like, oh, yeah, I want to help, but I don't know what to do. I don't want to go march in the streets. I don't have the time to do it. I'm too busy. I've got three kids, I'm two jobs. And I think about how we reach that 90% of people. And we talk about everybody having time, talent, treasure. I'm sure you've used some variation of this, you know, before, Right. People. Some people might have time, but no money. Great. What do you give them? What do you offer to them? Some people might have money, but no time. All right, what do you ask them? And some people might have the ability to volunteer and give you skills. Okay. What do you. What do you have to give them? So you got to have like a. A bit of an audience segmentation almost. So first, allies versus activists. And then secondly, time, talent, treasure. Right. I'm thinking like a marketer here. This is what I'm trained.
- [25:52]
C
Yeah, you are.
- [25:53]
A
And then the playbook is actually pretty simple. We try to break it down to, like, three steps. So number one, start with hope. Don't start with fear. Don't start with anxiety or despair. Start with hope. So be deliberate about the choice of stories. Be deliberate about how you tell those stories. You start with hope and make sure that you have that as a first starting intention. Second is spark, wonder. And this is almost such a difficult step, but it's an important step. By wonder, we mean you got to open people's eyes to the possibilities of what's out there. Right? And this is really where the storytelling can kick in. This is where all those things we're talking about, music, visuals, editing, all of those things. There's a limbic system at work that human beings have that you can tap directly into. Hollywood knows how to do this. Madison Avenue knows how to do it. Impact change makers need to learn how to do this and spark wonder and make your eyes go bigger. And then three is inspire courageous action. That's really where you now start to think about, what do I want somebody to do? Give them an off ramp from the storytelling, which is super clear, which takes all of that energy and emotion that you've created through this great storytelling. But make sure it leads to courageous action, whatever that is, and then you can start the cycle again. So that's the three part playbook for how to tell stories that fill the
- [27:27]
C
hope gap after all. I mean, one, you're already invited to my Thanksgiving dinner table because of virtue of being just so wonderful. But that right there was such a powerful unlock. And friends, can I just tell you that AFDAL literally just explained how to do this like eight minutes ago. Because when you said, I'm wearing this shirt called Choose Love, that's when your story began. As an ambassador of love for this org, you told us who it was. You explained an elevator speech about what it is. You gave us context into the way that they interpret some of, in my opinion, are some of the hardest news that we can even absorb as a society. And you talked about, and I felt like I was there in the storefront with Coldplay, like, just listening. And so I already know this works because you're living it right now. What you are saying and doing is beautiful. I love the way you have always walked through this world. I love the way you bring people along. And you have had to have heard so many stories in your lifetime that have changed you as a human being. And we like to hold space on this podcast to get, give you the mic and say, when was a time that philanthropy, generosity, kindness, a story came into your life that moved you so profoundly that you felt changed by it? Is there one of those stories you'd like to share with us today?
- [28:57]
A
Man, you're talking to a story nerd about.
- [28:59]
C
I know. That's why I have big expectations here.
- [29:04]
A
You know, it's really interesting when I think about the nonprofit work that I've been privileged to do. By the way, newsflash. Good is a new Cool now has a foundation. So as about this.
- [29:18]
C
Okay, yeah, yeah, double click.
- [29:21]
A
We partnered with the wonderful folks at Social Impact Fund, which is a fiscal, fiscally sponsored organization. We are now one of the 60 incredible organizations that are part of SIF.
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B
So cool.
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A
And so we are now accepting grants for storytelling. And, you know, we're now in this space as well, formally. I wanted to mention that community.
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C
There you go.
- [29:41]
A
Thanks to the SIF folks as well for welcoming us in. You know, it's interesting, I've been privileged to work with a number of different nonprofits in the last decade or so. You know, through Conspiracy of Love, we partnered brands with Thurgood Marshall College Project, with Boys and Girls Club, Feeding America. And I'm one of those people who I want to help all causes, all impacts. You know, they're all really special to me. But I realized that as I grew older, that if somebody said, well, what is your favorite cause or area of impact? I realized it wasn't a cause, but a country. And that country is Sri Lanka. And I think it's no coincidence that the older I get, I keep being drawn back to helping my country, the country of my birth. It's an incredibly beautiful country. If you've never been there, I highly encourage it. It's been hit with so many setbacks over the last five years, from, you know, terrorism to, you know, cyclones to economic collapse to so many other things, but it keeps getting back on its feet again, you know, and that's where I've been privileged to go and do storytelling projects there. In the last few years, I directed an architectural documentary there about a famous Sri Lankan architect. And then last year, I went and shot a food and travel show celebrating Sri Lankan food. That was super fun, you know. And so I would say that the story that I keep coming back to again and again is the story of Sri Lanka. And there's something that I know I'm going to keep going back and doing there till I die to help young storytellers there, young filmmakers there, to keep uplifting the country, to shine a light on how beautiful and amazing its people are. And so, yeah, that's. That was my realization that it's. It's a country, not a cause, that I'm really obsessed with telling the story of.
- [31:42]
B
I love that answer. I love that you're honoring your roots and your family's legacy there. And it's not lost on me. Last night, I was catching up in our We Are For Good community, which is a platform you can join for free at we are for goodcommunity.com and this guy just joined from Sri Lanka. I'm not even making this up, really, because I was threading together an episode of Aaliyah Whitney Johnson, who has a nonprofit there. The universe conspires these things. And I'm like, it's so beautiful how you're paying it forward. And it's just the message that we need each other. Everyone has a gift that they can advance to the time Treasure talent piece that you shared about. So thank you for that. Aftil. I'm grieving. This is our last question. This is tradition around here that we ask for a one good thing, and that could be defined by. Could be a habit that you love. A piece of advice that's resonant to You. Or maybe a mantra. I'm going to ask you, what's your one good thing? What's coming up for you?
- [32:41]
A
Ooh. Okay. So many things come to mind. I think the one good thing that I am now obsessed with is being authentic, you know, and for those of you who haven't read this book, it's called the Top five Regrets of the Dying by a woman called Bronnie Ware. I highly recommend it. Not to get morbid at the end of the podcast, but this woman, Bronnie Ware, was a hospice nurse who sat with people who are dying and asked them, what's your number one regret? And what do you think people said was in the top five? Give me a couple.
- [33:13]
C
I can assure you one of them is, I work too much.
- [33:17]
B
Probably, like, not doing what's true to them or being authentic.
- [33:21]
A
That is the number one regret. Not living a life authentic to themselves.
- [33:26]
B
Yeah.
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A
And when I read that, I was like, that's so fascinating because there's, you know, however many 7 billion of us, there's 7 billion definitions of authenticity, of what an authentic life means, you know, and so that's where my mantra is, you know, how do you live a life that's authentic to yourself? How do you be true to yourself? I think that way lies a lot more happiness, a lot more, you know, clarity, and. And really, that's where I hope I'm living a life that's authentic to myself. I hope my son sees me doing that, and I hope all of you out there are also on that journey to live an authentic life as well.
- [34:08]
B
You are. Can we just affirm that?
- [34:10]
C
I'm like, can we validate you right now, say, what a lucky little guy your son is to be able to, like, have this modeling and also to be proximate to so many stories that you feel changed by. I think that's one of my greatest joys of doing this work for me personally, is that at least three days a week, I sit down at the dinner table with my family, and I share something that I learned in this platform or from these people that profoundly move me. And I have them all the time, and they get to be fed by that as much as I am. So I just. I just think what you're doing is so needed. We're so glad to see you're working with Elevate Prize, their Make Good famous, and your logo. They work so good together. So I know people are going to want to connect with you f. So tell us, like, where you hang out online, where they can find out more information if you want to drop away, that we can help Choose Love's foundation today. We would love to activate this, give some courageous activation to this community. So let us know.
- [35:16]
A
Yes, you can find me on LinkedIn after Lazeez. That's probably the fastest way to check me down. Please check out chooselove.org if you guys can stick a link in the in the podcast, we'll put it in the
- [35:26]
C
show notes for sure.
- [35:27]
A
Please support their work. And yeah, thanks to everybody out there doing the good work. We think you're pretty cool, and we're here to, like, shine a light on what you're doing.
- [35:37]
B
You've been making it cool, seems like since you were born. So thank you for this conversation. Such an honor to be in friendship with you.
- [35:45]
A
Thanks for having me, guys.