← We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits
We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits
694. Stop Scaling. Start Solving: What the Nonprofit Sector Gets Wrong About Growth - Eliza Blank
00:31:14
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- [00:03]
A
We talk about our obsolescence every single day. In a perfect world, we wouldn't need to exist. It's not always going to be about scale. Sometimes it's about going deeper, because I don't think it's growth for growth's sake. We have 48 million folks in this country experiencing food insecurity. We don't want to see that number go up. And implying that we get bigger or the system gets bigger just means that that's getting bigger. And what we think about is less about scaling and more about creating more interventions. Because it's never going to just be one solution that solves this. It's going to have to be many.
- [00:36]
B
Hey, I'm John.
- [00:37]
C
And I'm Becky.
- [00:38]
B
And this is the We Here for Good podcast.
- [00:41]
C
Let's get started.
- [00:44]
B
Hey, Becky, what's happening?
- [00:45]
C
One of my favorites is here. You're not supposed to say that you have favorites, but I do. And it is the Farm Link project.
- [00:51]
B
And I'm sure we don't share it around here.
- [00:53]
C
I know. I'm like, when you join somebody's monthly giving club like you are in. And I mean, everyone in this community knows how much we love the Farm Link project. And we have brought on the new CEO, Eliza Blank. She is proof that an entrepreneurial mindset might be exactly what the nonprofit sector needs right now. So we're about to dive into her story. But, you know, we had this segment at the We Are For Good summit called. It was a panel called the Disruptors, and it's people who are thinking about this work differently. They are going about it in a completely different and human way. And I absolutely think the Farm Lake project is one of those Disruptors. So you got to get to know Eliza because her story is fascinating. She founded the sill in 2012, and so it was pioneering direct to consumer house plants. And she bootstrapped it for five year, raising over $25 million in capital and eventually expanding into 12 stores across seven markets. So she knows brand building, logistics, community, and how to scale. And I would bet that the McCoy family frequented the sill many times in the 90 plants that used to be.
- [02:05]
B
Where else would you get a Monstera these days? You know, you gotta go to the sill.
- [02:08]
A
Yeah, we put Monstera on the map.
- [02:11]
B
Yeah, you did.
- [02:13]
A
Please let that be on a T
- [02:15]
C
shirt somewhere on a hat. So I just think that this is such an interesting hire. I think it's so brilliant. And as the newly appointed CEO of the FarmLink project, she's bringing all of that expertise to one of the most urgent problems of our time. That's the. The fact that we grow enough food to feed every person on this planet, and yet a third of it goes to waste while millions of people go hungry. And so if you've been with us and hung around We Are for good for a little while, you've probably hung out and heard some of Ben Collier's episodes because Ben was one of its founders. We also had Aiden Riley on the show. Love him. And today we get to meet the person who's helping the farmlink project write this next chapter. So we're going to explore what it looks like to lead movement into its next big era and what happens when a founder CEO mindset collides with a mission this big. So, Elisa, welcome to the We Are For Good podcast. We are delighted you are here.
- [03:13]
A
Thank you so much for having me. And what an intro. Very generous. I love it. I'm so glad to be here talking with you both and sharing some of my story.
- [03:23]
C
Well, it's clear that you deeply care about living things and growing healthy communities. I can just feel that in your story. Take us back to meet young Eliza. Like, how did her formative experiences lead her into running one of these beautiful, disruptive insurgent nonprofits that we're so obsessed with right now?
- [03:46]
A
Well, thank you for saying that. It's funny you mention that, because my hometown newspaper just wrote about Farm Link.
- [03:54]
C
Oh, which one? What hometown?
- [03:56]
A
I'm from Northampton, Massachusetts. You know, we're. We're in the Happy Valley. If you know it, you know it. And another one of the founding members of FarmLink happens to also be from North Hampton. And in fact, we had the same kindergarten teacher, even though we are 15 years apart in age, which is wild. We went to the same elementary school, and even there's actually other folks who have spent some time in Northampton. And so little Eliza was definitely shaped by the environment I grew up in. And Northampton, if you know it, is a very unique and special place, and I won't dwell on it too long, but just to say that I grew up in an area that was surrounded by farmland, I very much was attuned to where food came from and that it came from our neighbors and that it was grown out of the ground. And that sounds silly, but, you know, there's a lot of kids out there who do not know that because they don't live next to farmland like I did. I literally passed cows on my way to school.
- [04:53]
C
Same.
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B
We can relate in Oklahoma.
- [04:55]
C
We're Oklahomans, you know, oh, Oklahoma.
- [04:58]
A
Right, of course. And we actually even had a vocational school that had an agricultural program. And we had a very famous potato farming family in my school at the time that I was growing up. And so I think that the combination of growing up just in western Massachusetts, where nature was sort of the backdrop, close to the food supply chain, if you will, I think that just embedded deeply in me, in my DNA, of being of great importance. And on top of that, I mean, as it relates to plants at least. My mother is from the Philippines, obviously a very tropical country. I don't know how she agreed to live in Massachusetts for the better part of her life, but as you can imagine, plants brought her closer to her home. And she's an avid gardener. And so mostly all my memories of her growing up are just tending to her plants. And all of her plants, by the way, are, like, older than I am. And they're the same ones, like, when I go home to visit my parents in my childhood home, the same plants that were there when I was 3 and 4 years old were my first memories are still there. So, you know, I've had a lot of early influences, but I am just so glad to have been able to carve my own path that aligns with the things that I'm most passionate about.
- [06:15]
B
Yeah, I am obsessed with all of these pieces coming together and just almost like the metaphors of it, too, that the work that you're getting to do now, the progression of your story, how you're coming in with this entrepreneurial lens, because, you know, Becky will tell you, like, I feel like that was one of our founding thesis for We Are for Good is that we felt like the playbook that the nonprofit sector had embraced for too long was just too static and too stationary and too limiting. And so I love that you're stepping into this with just a different perspective, and you're coming into an organization that's already been progressive on this, but you're coming in with this lens of a brand builder, of someone that's built something from scratch that has scaled significantly. And so I'm just so curious. What excites you about coming into the nonprofit model? And where do you think that there's opportunity being left off the table at this point?
- [07:09]
A
Great question. I mean, what attracted me to farmlink was that it was so entrepreneurial. Right. I think, you know, in many ways, you could describe it as a grassroots movement, but I see it as a startup. You have this founding team who identifies this massive problem that's been addressed in some ways, by these large institutions that have preceded them by 50 years plus. And they thought, well, you know, that's all well and good and there's still opportunity to do this differently. And what if we, with our, you know, air quotes, dumb questions could come in and, you know, try something new or try something different or not be afraid to make mistakes or look foolish. They just saw the problem and they attacked it. Completely separate from the requirement, I would suppose, of like needing to know about it, you know, and, and that's exactly what I did in plants. You know, I was like, huh, how come nobody does it this way? And I had no business getting into that industry. I had no background, I didn't look the part, and I didn't have the pedigree of, you know, three generations behind me or a degree in plant science. And I just was like, well, I'll give it a try, you know, and, and that's kind of what, yeah, incredible. First thing, that's kind of what Farm Link did. People say, oh, what's the difference? And I, you know, I often, I often think that there's actually more similarities than there are differences. Even as we relate to the ecosystem we're in. Startups are often considered disruptors and are trying to set aside the notions of what has been done and do it differently. And that's precisely what farmlink is doing and what it continues to do and, and really what the ecosystem needs it. It's not to say that the incumbents aren't important, like we don't want them to go away. I think that's actually the unique thing about nonprofits is we're not trying to like, elbow out the competition. Like we actually want to coexist, but we want to find those pockets of opportunity to solve for problems that maybe the bigger systems can't get to.
- [09:17]
C
You're just asking bigger questions. And that's what I think is just so brilliant about it. And I feel like we've been talking for, you know, 10, 15 minutes here and we even actually said what Farm Link does. We've talked about it a little bit. So I want to give some context to the listeners because we just take advantage of the fact that we talk about it so often on this podcast, but it's it, this is an amazing mission that is combating food waste by taking all this excess product either from farms or from other food related donors or charities, and then they redistribute it across food insecure communities. It seems like such a big, like a basic premise, but this is why I'm a donor. I could tell you right now why I'm a donor because you asked those bigger questions, because you're failing forward. And so that's what I really, really want to tap into, because I think that brand and community have been core to everything that Farm Link has built, and it actually feels like what you were building at the sill as well. And so how are you thinking about those two levers, like, brand and. And I'm curious what nonprofit leaders should be doing to strengthen their brand as a growth strategy. Because I know, John, you're thinking about this quote, because I am, too, that Aiden said on the first podcast, we're not thinking today about what comes next for Farm Link. We are stewarding people for 10 years from now and what their impact will be 10 years from now. And to me, that is the growth strategy. So kind of put that into practice for other nonprofit leaders and what they can learn from that.
- [10:57]
A
Yeah, I would say first, from a brand perspective, I think what the SIL afforded me was an opportunity to highlight a category that nobody even cared about. Houseplants were like, what was in the corner of, like, your grandma's house or, like, in the dentist's office? Like, it wasn't it. It was. It was a thing that people didn't even know they needed. And I think of FarmLink and even more broadly, brand building in the ecosystem of nonprofits is similar. It's actually up against a similar challenge. But the upside is the same, which is to say that you can create such a meaningful community of fanatics around the cause that you are trying to gain awareness around. You know, for Farm Link, it's like, yes, we're talking about food insecurity, which of course, everybody knows about, but the particular way in which we solve it and the issues of food waste at the scale that we're talking about is a problem that nobody knows about. I think even as someone who came in here relatively recently, I'm still astounded by the magnitude and the scale of which food can go to waste in this country and where in the supply chain that happens. So the brand building is bringing awareness to, but forming community around and creating that fanaticism in, you know, being able to support this solution. You know, I mean, it's. It's not a perfect parallel, but, you know, people just got so into plants because they were able to realize that it was this really magical sort of, like, symbiotic relationship. It's like, you take care of the plants, they take care of you. And at least when it comes to whether it's charitable giving or just involvement in some of this nonprofit work, like, it will give back. And I think that's the hook that maybe needs, like a little bit of a. Of a rebrand itself. I think we're all sort of searching for those feel good moments. And it's not to say that charity should just be about feeling good about yourself for participating. But if that's the hook, you know what? I'm not mad about it. And I think that's sort of what got people into plants, and then it grew from there. And I think that's. That's the same opportunity that we're talking about here.
- [13:18]
B
I want to lift something that I see because as you're explaining this, I think one of our core values that we are for good is simplify, humanize, tell a great story. And I look at the farm link story, and they found a way. Y' all have found a way to tell the story so simply that it seems, like, obvious, like, why would we not do this? And I want to respect the fact that on the back end, it's not that simple. Like, it's so hard. It's a logistical nightmare, I'm sure, to, like, make happen. But that's not what you lead with. Like, that's why you have this incredible network that figures that out. But the donor story is really simple to understand and translate, and that's what spreads because it is so simple and you can handle the complex. And I think that it has to be the same for shipping houseplants all over the US and world and all
- [14:08]
A
that
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B
logistically super complex, complicated. You know, I want to talk about scaling impact without losing your soul. And, you know, we've just came out of an episode this season that we're like, is scaling even the goal for some of these. Some places we just need to go deeper. Scale is not always the goal. But FarmLink connects farms to food banks at national scale. What does it take operationally and culturally to make that work? And what could maybe anyone listening take from that model of how y' all do that?
- [14:40]
A
Well, you know what's interesting? You talk about scale, and yes, we're at a national level, and yes, we are moving millions of pounds of food every single week. And yet that's not at scale. That's like just tip of the iceberg. And so in many ways, we are still, you know, quite a small operation. And, you know, of course, we do have ambition to continue to scale. But I don't think you're wrong. I think I Think the way we think about it at FarmLink is it's not growth for the sake of growth. And in fact, in many ways, do you want to put these systems in place that are so permanent that we're effectively band aiding the system and we're not addressing root causes of hunger instead of just fixing supply chain issues? And so we're very cognizant of that at FarmLink. And I think that was the other thing that attracted me to this group and this organization is we talk about our obsolescence every single day. Like in a perfect world, we wouldn't need to exist. And in some cases, yes. Does that mean just shoring up the supply chains and making some of this more automated or a playbook that others can follow? Yes, absolutely. And you know, your point about it's not always going to be about scale. Sometimes it's about going deeper. We are absolutely thinking with that mindset as well, because I don't think it's growth for growth's sake. That would actually be tragic in many ways. Right. Like we are seeing the numbers actually go in the wrong direction. We have 48 million folks in this country experiencing food insecurity. It's, you know, we don't want to see that number go up. And, and implying that we get bigger or the system gets bigger just means that that's getting bigger. And so what we think about is less about scaling and more about creating more interventions. Because it's never going to just be one solution that solves this. It's going to have to be many. And I think that's what's really exciting about FarmLink is that we are very innovative and experimental. And in some ways, I would say that this group considers what we do today as just the first successful thing that we've piloted and scaled. But there's many more things that we can do and will do here at farmlink.
- [16:42]
C
Okay, I know why you're grinning, John. You have that grin about you. And it's because we just had an entrepreneur onto the podcast who says you don't just scale for scale's sake. And you're right, Eliza, because I just think it's different to grow a business where you have widgets and certain things. And I think it's different to lead a movement that has so many complex layers. And I think you allow yourself so much openness, and I commend you all for this. When you say there are many ways of coming at this and we're not going to be so close or narrow minded about what it looks like and who gets to deliver this impact, which is why we haven't even talked about your fellowship program, which I think is such a brilliant program because Farm Link was founded by college students. And so you start with kids at that age with that level of passion. Their center for justice is so core to who they are. I just think the long game that you're playing here and continuing to reiterate yourself to be open to how the brand moves, to how the solutions move, that tells me you're going to be around for a really long time time. So I want to know, like, what tension you're navigating right now. You talk about all these really big issues that you're solving for and I want to know what is the most difficult thing to manage right now between growing fast and staying true to what makes farmlink so incredibly special? How are you making the big calls in this moment?
- [18:21]
A
Great question. I think, you know, the tension right now is that we're growing up as an organization, right? So this group who founded FarmLink, I think half of the team today is comprised of some of those founding members. And now half are, you know, folks like me who have, who have joined the cause and come with our own set of experiences, whether from business or life, whether they're related directly or adjacent. But that in and of itself is such an exciting part of business, if I can say that. And that's again, this familiarity I have, you know, I, I grew the sill from me to almost 100 employees and there's so many chapters in that and there's so many pain points, quite frankly, of just scaling culturally and maintaining focus and knowing when to place the bets. And I mean, so many stories there. But I think for FarmLink, the tension is less, I think about our focus externally, about what, you know, we're crystal clear on what our mission is. And while we're experimental and innovative, we maintain that focus. It's always to fuel our mission. So for us, it's about how do we just continue to mature as an organization so that we are here for the long run. And I think a really core tenant of farmlink is this youth leadership. So I'm glad you mentioned our field fellowship because that brings in college students to work alongside us to get educated in food systems and agriculture and the hunger fighting space. And then they're able to do these on the ground programs with some of our partners. They can be farms, they can be food banks, they can be all sorts of things. And in the past they've come up with their own thesis. And now we have them work on some of farmlink's thesis. What's wonderful about that is it keeps us grounded in that youth leadership. Because guess what? Our founders are growing up like they're not the youngest anymore. And so it's, how do you, how do you grow up and integrate this multi generational team while still angling towards amplifying that youth leadership? Because so much of what I think is special about Farm Link and even again, relating back to, to it myself, is you can't be what you can't see. And so I think for Farm Link, that means they're really encouraging and inspiring young people to get in the game basically, to be like, you don't have to wait until you're 40 like me to go solve problems like you can solve them when you're 18 and 19 and 20 and 21. I started to sell when I was 26, but so it was less about age. But just similarly, you know, having other women come to me and say, wow, you like, built this business and you raise venture capital and all these things, like, that's so hard for us. And yet you inspire me to do it because you're doing it. So I think just even being a platform is important. And so I'm trying to ensure that the group that founded this is able to create this platform for that youth leadership and maintain it as everybody naturally gets older.
- [21:31]
B
Becky, you kind of quoted what Aiden said on the first episode. I'm gonna, I, I didn't pull the full quote, but I just want to go back because I think what was shared is fun to think about five years later probably or ish. When we met, when we met them. But he was talking specifically about the people that are coming through Farm, like the team we're building into, like the leaders that are going to go on and continue to solve the world's problems. And I think of like this transition with Ben stepping out and chasing kind of his next. I think he's doing another degree. Right. Or something like that.
- [22:03]
A
And yeah, that's right.
- [22:05]
B
Such a beautiful long game, infinite game perspective that I would love to see replicated in more organizations. Like, it's so bought into pouring into youth in an organization because of what that means of what's going to happen for what's next. So thanks for posturing that. And we're always rooting for y' all and just the way that y' all show up in the world, it's so beautiful. We gotta ask for a story from you. So we're kind of all softies about philanthropy around here. And that's defined as just everyday kindness, everyday generosity. We want you to think back, like, is there a moment in life when you've gotten to witness generosity that's just stuck with you after many years? And would you take us into that story?
- [22:47]
A
Yeah, I mean, I. There's actually many that I could. That I could think of. What I'll share with you is actually much more recent, but is in part what led me here is that I've always felt close to feeding people. It just. It's so fundamental. And so, you know, while I was in college, I volunteered in a prep kitchen at God's Love We Deliver, which is a fantastic institution here in New York. And then more recently at the pantry where I live, and I was doing that for at least a year. Farm Link wasn't even on my radar. And what struck me and what I think really turned, like, lit me up and like, turned something on inside of me was watching the folks who. Who work in the pantry engage with the clients or the patrons. I don't even want to say it's generosity. It was just humanity. Right? Like, it's just, you know, here are people who have fallen on tough times, and, you know, going to a pantry is not easy, as you can imagine. And yet our pantry and shout out to the pantry in Stoneridge, New York, I think just treats people with such dignity and care and respect and makes it, you know, it's not transactional. It's not hard to do. And I remember actually someone young just taking a moment to, like, thank me for being there and for showing up. Obviously, it meant a lot for him to be on the receiving end, but it just felt like we were sort of like, all in this thing together. Like, here we are, we're neighbors, we're in the same community. There's physically no, like, wall between us. And I think just being in that environment leading up to joining farmlink is really what actually inspired me in so many ways to take this type of work forward, how critically important it is. So, yeah, I would say that. And also God's Love We Deliver. What a great operation and what a fun way to spend your mornings before your workday. I just remember being 21 in that kitchen and really enjoying my time there.
- [24:48]
C
Okay. I was not aware of it, but Eliza's pulling a story out of me because I just had a very similar situation happen to me. We found one here when we moved
- [24:58]
A
to our new town.
- [24:59]
C
The hunger program for the Colorado State University, for the students, the Faculty and staff. And I just did this a couple weeks ago, and I have to tell you, I had the exact same experience. And the level of dignity and generosity is so incredible because what happens is they bring people in for volunteers, and half the volunteers are also going to take food. And the spirit of generosity, of being able to take some, give some to be abundant, it's a transcendent experience for me and just how it really is so much less about food insecurity and more about abundance and shared humanity. So thank you for bringing us all back to that. Okay, we are winding down this conversation, sadly. I always love talking with Farmly to hear what you guys are doing, and it's always groundbreaking and so exciting. But we want you to kind of distill something down to your piece of advice. Maybe it's a life hack, could be a habit. What's a one good thing that you would be willing to leave with our audience today?
- [26:02]
A
For me at least, what's been helpful is choosing a lane of interest in where you want to do good and make your mark in the world, because quite frankly, you can get overwhelmed really easily. And I find this to be the case with, you know, almost everyone I meet. It's not that people don't want to help. I think we're all intrinsically like, you know, wanting to be of service and to help, and yet we get stuck because there's so many great causes and there's so many, you know, so much need in the world. And so rather than getting sort of stuck, I would suggest pick the thing that, you know, lights you up. You know, it could be. It could be something around food, it could be something around the climate, it could be something around education, it could be something around human rights. You. You really can't go wrong. And I would say that it compounds over your lifetime. Right. So I started volunteering in the kitchen when I was 21 years old to be able to then see the progress of, like, where I started. Where I am now, having stayed in this one lane, kind of coincidentally, I think it's kind of the way to do it. And so. And maybe you have more than one area of interest, but to then be able to see like, oh, wow, it wasn't just that one event that I volunteered in or that one check that I wrote. You know, this has become a lifetime of giving in this one direction. And, like, that's impact, you know, and that's beautiful. And so I would say for anyone who's feeling like, oh, I'm, like, all over the place, Or I don't even know where to dig in or I don't even know what to do. You know, find. Find what moves you and then, you know, double down.
- [27:37]
B
Dang. My friend. I feel like it's full circle of how you were explaining the work, how much more confidently you move forward with FarmLink because the mission's so clear as we define that for ourself. Like how much more clear those steps of like how to get active and how to get involved as we kind of dig into what really lights us up. Of course you're leaving us with a good CTA at the end here for our listeners. How can folks listening connect with you, my friend? Where do you hang out online? Or where is the best place to catch the Farm Link project? And what do y' all need right now?
- [28:09]
A
I mean, surely we're always looking for supporters through donation. Becky, sounds like you're signed up, so I appreciate that.
- [28:17]
C
Come join me.
- [28:18]
A
Folks can always go to farmlinkproject.org that's where you can learn about us. You can actually find a wonderful documentary that's just 20 minutes about the founding story. It is a tear jerker, but it also really gets you going. So be sure to watch abundance and all of our social handles are there, of course. So I would encourage you to go there, consider making a donation or just getting involved. That's the call to action. No matter whether it's with Farm Link or not. Get involved. Roll up your sleeves, let's get going. Let's do something today.
- [28:52]
C
And I want to make sure that we give you the space to say, how many millions of pounds of food have you rescued today? Because I always think it's extraordinary and every time I ask, it's a crazy number. It's a crazier number than before.
- [29:04]
A
Well, last calendar year we moved 150 million pounds of food. So we've reset that clock. We move, like I said, 100 trucks a week, over a million pounds a week. You can do the math, of course. And like I said, scratching the surface. We are just scratching the surface.
- [29:21]
C
And I just saw that France just passed a law that said all excess food now has to be given away. When we see more momentum like that, that's the hope being reignited. So keep going. And we are rooting for you mightily, always.
- [29:37]
A
Thank you.