← We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits
We Are For Good Podcast - The Podcast for Nonprofits
706. How to Turn Around a Nonprofit From the Inside Out - Marisol Pineda Conde + Lindsey Fuller, The Teaching Well
00:47:48
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- [00:03]
Becky
At the end of the day, investing in our people, having them stay longer, having them give us the best that they have to offer is the business savvy move.
- [00:11]
Lindsay Fuller
And the only way your impact is sustained, which is what funders and what donors want to see that year over year you're actually sustaining your impact. That doesn't happen in a solo effort. Be a collectivist, take care of your squad, and they will serve the greater community and we will actualize our missions with more efficacy.
- [00:29]
John
Hey, I'm John.
- [00:30]
Becky
And I'm Becky.
- [00:31]
John
And this the We Are for Good podcast.
- [00:33]
Host
Let's get started.
- [00:36]
John
Hey Bea, what's happening?
- [00:38]
Host
Hey John. We've got some favorite human alerts coming in today.
- [00:43]
John
Not only are we bringing some heartwired humans that are so close to the very heartbeat of this movement, but we're also just having a conversation, you know, and this is not super scripted or anything like that. This is raw and real and something that I think a lot of you listening probably are facing or have faced or maybe you're going to walk into. And we wanted to create a container today that's not just a safe place to sit back and listen and be part of this conversation, but to hopefully be changed and inspired by it too. Because we're in the company of truly some of our most respected leaders in the space. And these are people that we look up to, we admire, but it's how they move with values at the very core of how they show up. And they also turn it into a teachable framework for others to come alongside them. They're teachers to their core. So you may have guessed. Lindsey Fuller is back in the house. She's the executive director of the teaching well and she's also alongside our favorite friend, Marisol Pineda Conde, the deputy director of the teaching well. They co lead this thing. They are an incredible duo. And to see them in their relationship and how it is so much built on trust and built on courage of showing up together as human centered leaders, like sets the tone for how this organization has gone from a turnaround kind of operation into some place that's thriving. And let me tell you a little about the teaching. Well, if you're not familiar with this organization, it's a nonprofit dedicated to building adult cultures in schools specifically that educators don't have to heal from. Like it's kind of a tagline that we talk about that can we build cultures that we don't have to heal from? I want you to sit with that, my friend, because I think we all came from spaces that we're still picking up the pieces of different experiences, but they dream of a different world. And especially starting at the very heart center of schools around our country, which are having crisis upon crisis kind of stacked up on top of them. So what we're going to do today is they are inviting us into a really special fireside kind of chat when we reflect on what does it look like to turn an organization around from the inside out, what do the hard decisions look like, what does it look like when you take a bold bet, or even how you build policies. They know how to build operations that live and breathe your values. And they're also just going to be really vulnerable with us about the moments that changed everything along the journey. So we're here today to hope, paint a path for how you can implement some of the same transformation wherever you're at in your organization. Lindsay, Marisol, we're so happy to see you. Thanks for being here, buddies, as always, leading. So generously. Appreciate you.
- [03:27]
Becky
Hey, it's so good to be here.
- [03:28]
Lindsay Fuller
We're so happy to be with y' all again today.
- [03:31]
John
I mean, y' all have both been around. We are. For good, for now, years. Marisol, I feel like we've not gotten your full journey on the podcast. I want to open it up just to share a little bit of breadcrumbs of your journey and story of what got you here today.
- [03:44]
Becky
Yeah, absolutely. I intersected with a teaching well as an educator. I was a principal, and our organization came in contact with the teaching well, and we started to contract to receive some support. I was at a really small charter school in Los Angeles, and I started to receive the coaching, My staff started to receive the professional development, and I got to see firsthand the impact of receiving support for adults. My adults were committed. They were incredible educators, and they were burnt out, they were tired. They were deeply impacted by direct and vicarious trauma. And I didn't know what to do. I didn't know how to support them. I just knew we needed some support. And so when I had this opportunity to see firsthand the impact of centering educators, centering their voice, and also directly meeting some of the needs that were emerging for them, I became a believer. And so when the opportunity emerged to join the team, I was like, absolutely. This is the type of work I want to do because I can have testimony to the firsthand impact on the adults and more importantly, what it did for students.
- [04:57]
Host
I cannot overemphasize enough how incredible Marisol is and how smart she is with this work. And of course you all have had Lindsay here coaching you, healing you. We are such rabid fans of the Gather at the well series. But I just want to hold space to thank you for seeing that need. I am such a rabid fan also of the teaching well. I am a proud donor and I do it not only because I believe but because my sister is one of those burnt out educators. My mother was a burnt out educator. My sister in law is a burnt out educator who also the duality of life absolutely love what they do and they believe in the hope of building this next generation. But we are going to have some real talk here. I want you to take us back five years into the teaching well and I want you to give us the honest state of the state of what the teaching well was facing internally. And I am guessing that our listeners are going to see so much of themselves in this and I hope that you will grab those seeds of hope that you hear in this episode to understand how to turn an organization around entirely because you all are vibrant AF right now and I'm so excited about it. So take it away. Lindsay, why don't you take the first one?
- [06:27]
Lindsay Fuller
No, I can't even do that well first what I wanted to say is there's no world in which I want to lead without Marisol as my co leader and I've been very vocal about that. Get you a co leader if you don't have one. It's not possible to do the work of leadership in this world in the state that it's in alone. We can't do it. And so I just want to give all the flowers to the operational prowess that is Marisa Opineda Conde and I want to actually allow her to speak to this first because we came in at a very similar time and and I remember one of the first conversations we had around like we didn't create this situation but like if you're down to be loyal, we could turn it around together. Like you down. And she didn't hesitate. She was like all right, we in here now. It's our responsibility. And so I actually want to just position her because I think so often folks that lead operational work are invisible are in the background. And so I want to give her this front and center opportunity.
- [07:31]
Host
What a tone set.
- [07:32]
Becky
Well thanks Lindsay for that. And I and I think what you said really resonates around like when you can find that values alignment that it creates a springboard. And that was very much sort of what we experienced when we came to the teaching well like many Nonprofits. The teaching world was an incredible idea. It was a great idea that really met a need. So when we looked around, there was a need for the teaching wall, there was a need to support educators, there was a need for folks to centered in different ways and for a different path to be created. And there was a belief that it was possible. And with that idea, there was a lot of momentum and energy. And so when we came into the organization, we shared in that momentum, we shared in that energy, and we shared in that belief. And yet, as we started to do the work, we started to find the places where that idea was rubbing against some additional needs, like some operational infrastructure, some systems, some protocols. We found ourselves in a place where we had one month Runway, and Lindsay and I sort of looked at each other and said, I don't like this. I don't know about you, but this is not really in alignment to how I want to feel within our organization. More importantly, to bring this to the team and say, this is where we are. And so when we found in those hard moments, realizing the true state of where we were, what came through was also a conviction, energy, as Lindsay was saying, to say, okay, well, this is the reality. Now what. What are we gonna do with this? How are we going to have the honest conversations about what's needed and put in the infrastructure to get us there? And so that's. That was very much the state that we found ourselves in. And Lindsay and I were both coming from places that were federally funded. And as we know, federally funded organizations have, to some extent, barring some of our current reality, some predictability to their funding sources that wasn't true for us. We were trying to get sales off the ground. We were trying to still secure grants. And so there was a lot of uncertainty and predictability to some of our funding. And we were working to build the systems and the structures to be able to weather that.
- [09:51]
Lindsay Fuller
Mm. So that, like, build the plane as you're flying it. It's that. Right. And so we had to recognize the internal and external infrastructure that was missing. There were not JDs, there was not an evaluation system. There was not a thorough handbook with policies. We didn't have comp structures that were exploitable in the org. Folks were unclear about expectations. And our program, we really redesigned it. I've been talking about a term in the shadows that I'm going to bring to the light, and maybe I'm going to get some. Some eye rolls here, but there's a lot of energy in the social sector space around founders and Bless them. They have brilliant ideas and and some of them are visionaries. And I'm going to go ahead and say that Marisol and I are re founders. There's not a lot of light that comes to turnaround leaders, but it's not just about turning around an organization, which is typically how I orient to it. We have an entirely new curriculum. We have an entirely new sales structure and revenue model. We have an entirely new internal evaluation system. We have an entirely new brand. We actually redesigned an organization that was a beautiful seed idea, but we created something that could stand the test of time. And so what we arrived at five years ago is definitely not where we are. But we have arrived. We are turned around. This is a new organization and we're hyped about it.
- [11:22]
John
Taking a quick pause from today's episode because we wanted to tell you about some amazing upcoming events that we don't want you to miss. So first up, on April 29th we've got our monthly working session live and we are excited to have Dana Snyder back in the house to walk us through forecasting our monthly giving growth in 2026. So you're going to walk away with a growth forecast for the year and all the pathways to get you there. Really excited about that session. Then in May, you can join us for our next Impact up gathering. You know, four times a year Impact App brings the we are for good community together around ideas that really matter most. This quarter we are going deep on the most powerful tool that you already have and probably aren't fully using Story. Impact app is also met with local meetups happening around the world so you can find one popping up somewhere near you. Head to weareforgood.com or go to this episode's description for the direct links and you can save your free seat today. I am man emotional. I am taken by what y' all just talked about and I want to call out a few things. First of all, if anyone's listening, we were in the exact same seat as y' all running this company. There was a lot of months, many months that you probably listened to this podcast, that we had less than one month's worth of money in the bank and we kept showing up and it's a scary place. So I first want to say thank you for normalizing talking about that. It's a very scary, real reality and I also appreciate that you didn't come in bashing where the organization was at. It was one of love the seed. This was a beautiful idea. Like those are the words that I heard That I think tell you everything that you need to know about you as leaders, that you're honoring what's come before you. And I know that's how you show up personally and your family as well. And so I just want to honor that. And I don't know which episode you said this on, Lindsay, but it's always stuck with us that you said, sometimes we need to till the soil, you know, and, like, work on the soil. And it's like, the seed is right, the idea is right. But that doesn't mean that we can't change things, you know, and, like, work things and things can get better, you know, and this belief that things can get better, and y' all are living proof of that. And so I want to give you flowers. I think that's a good analogy, considering we're talking about the seed here.
- [13:45]
Lindsay Fuller
Come on.
- [13:47]
John
But also, just like, I would love to get into the crux of, like, over the last five years, y' all have worked on some of these specific things that have turned around. I'm reading this that you called it a year. Five blessings that you brought to this team. Talk about what those were. Why did you call them that? And break it down for us, because I don't want to spill the joy of what they are, but I want you all to share about what they are.
- [14:11]
Lindsay Fuller
Yeah. But first, let's talk about what makes them financially possible. So when we arrived and we had a month Runway, that's very different than a reserve. And you'll hear us talking today about a reserve. And I want to be really clear about a couple of things. One, I've been told by every ED that has been in the field that it is a risk that I speak openly about having a reserve. Let me say it with 10 toes down and my chest fully out. Being a financially sustainable organization, meaning you close your gap year over year, is one thing. Being a financially solvent organization means you can weather financial hardships. And right from the beginning, Marisol and I understood that trajectory, understood that we were neither with one month of Runway, and that first we had to become financially sustainable, and then our goal was to become financially solvent. We have what we refer to as an earned revenue reserve. It's also talked about in between the two of us as a staff protection reserve. And I want to be really clear about this, because this is why I feel so confident speaking about it. When the perceived risk from EDS is funders are not going to think that that's all right. An earned revenue reserve does not put philanthropic dollars or donor Dollars into the reserve. Our grants and our donations go to our program work, go to our expenses for staff. Our earned revenue reserve was a collective care effort that we laid out very clearly with our team. That said, every year we have a sales target, an earned revenue target, anything we exceed beyond that we will put into a reserve that allows us to weather the storm with a very clear goal that we, if a grant went through or a major contract fell through, we would not have to lay off a staff member or clip our benefits. Because too often in the social sector, folks cannot rest. We cannot rest into the financial solvency that allows us to give our best and most brilliant performance. And especially as a global majority team, many of whom are trauma survivors, we wanted their nervous systems to be regulated enough to be able to innovate and to be able to heal others. That's why I'm not ashamed, first of all. But second of all, why I'm not quiet because this is not something that is competing with our funders. And in fact, funders have learned that we'll be here so their ROI and their investment is safe with us. We're not going under should something shift. And my team is willing to go 110% because they understand that we put them first, that they're not disposable. And so I just wanted to share that context because I think it really matters. And for all of you EDS out there, you need to have a clear narrative and a clear strategy for how you're building your reserve. We're not pulling from it willy nilly. We're pulling from it for our people. And that's how we got at the five year blessings. So I want to kick it to soul because every time I run my mouth, she makes sure we have the systems, policies and practices to back it up.
- [17:24]
Becky
Yeah, the place where I want to start is coming back to this idea of values because part of what we know to be true is Lindsay and I are aligned. And sometimes the things that we are aligned on, we've learned and this has come from interacting with other folks are not shared understandings or shared values across many other spaces and organizations. And so one of the places where we had to pause and say, wait a minute, we firmly believe this and started to realize that's not true, is that when you offer a benefit to your teen, you don't take it away. And she and I have some conviction in that, partly because we truly believe that in order to create trust, folks have to be able to believe that when they receive something, they can Count on it moving forward. And so part of our decision to call this blessings versus benefits is that we have this one time opportunity and some of the blessings may begin to shift into benefits when we can guarantee that our systems will ensure that they will be available to them for the long run. For the long haul. Right. And so that's part of what started to create that distinction. Why are we calling them blessings? Because these are one times that we have an intention, desire and vision to be able to make continuous. But we're not there yet. And that is okay. That is okay.
- [18:54]
Lindsay Fuller
More than okay. And actually a lot of EDs that I'm talking to at these conferences, especially because I dripped about this on LinkedIn. So I actually at this conference had a couple folks sidebar me and be like, like, wait, but why are you doing like blessings, like how are you? This is one of the places I think that Marisol and I innovate the most. Innovation doesn't always mean an AI tech platform. Innovation means how do we pilot benefits that could be game changing but feel the confidence to pilot before we have the financial resource to say this is here and it'll be here. In the long term. Why don't we create the psychological safety for leaders to explore? But how do we also understand that language matters and that when we enroll our teams for change management's sake and want to maintain that relational trust, we're really clear and explicit. This is a one year gift that you have all earned. Let's be very clear, right. Because of our belief system around our reserve, this is our money that we have earned from extending past our revenue targets to reinvest in you all. Thank you for your service. Sol and I didn't turn around this organization by ourselves. We have a steady team and those who have stayed, they have hustled with us, they have made this possible, this is their earnings and we're putting them back towards them. So I just want to say, like, let's innovate leaders. It doesn't have to be just scarcity and abundance. There's a lot of space in between that. What are the abundant micro dosings of wellness that we can actually invest in so that our team can say, yeah, more of that, or like that was cute or whatever, but like I don't need that all the time so that people are driving their benefits.
- [20:39]
Host
It is so human centered. And I want to ask you all, how have you socialized this change? I mean we're doing it here, which is so beautiful. How have you talked about this with funders what has your board seen? Because I want to know the human response to this incredible work. Because I think lifting it in this way and circling back gives it the, the, the solidity that it needs the power to keep going. What has been the response from your people?
- [21:14]
Lindsay Fuller
We imagine a different way to be in relationship with work. And that is a mindset that is held with a hundred percent of the teaching, well, staff. I will say that every other partner that you named is receiving this information because we're sharing about it in our story and we're not asking for permission to execute our staff, however learned and constructed at every step of the way, they feel nourished. And I think that something I heard in particular I'd love to kick off with like naming the three and let's do it. And we'll start with the physical health benefit. And I, I'll have Marisol kind of describe it in a moment, but what I'll say is a part of it was responsivity to the reality that four plus. Okay. And that's their business. Four plus of our staff members were either in perimenopause or menopause and in a field in education that is women majority. That is a reality that we are just now as a society beginning to talk about without shame, without fear and the hello hormones. Whether we want. Whether folks are comfortable with the branding or not so seen.
- [22:20]
Becky
Yes.
- [22:21]
Lindsay Fuller
But that we were hearing that our $150 a month wellness stipend, which is a benefit that all teammates receive in addition to our stellar medical health benefits, which is 100% for our staff and 50% for their benefits, that they're sorry for their dependence. Thank you. Look, she was like. And that's what I mean. She gets me right every time. There was still this gap. And I know I was on a journey of asking my doctor at Kaiser. I was like, hey yo, I want to do a hormone panel. Because I'm hearing that you should actually have your baseline data before you go into perimenopause. And they were like, we don't do that. And so we were having all of these staff members come back trying to self teach, trying to be in community. And so despite having solid benefits, there was still this inquiry around how do we learn our bodies and our brains and our hormones. And it's popular on Instagram now to talk about. But how are we learning in ways that align with our commitment to being well? And so the physical health benefit was born of that. And I'd love soul to talk a little bit more about how we did that.
- [23:23]
Becky
Yeah. So we heard this need from the team, and we brought a couple of options and we said, here are some options that we're thinking about. We want the team to have agency to choose. And so folks were able to decide, and we had 100% of our team decide to go with having a full medical screener. That gave us the opportunity to receive a full sort of like baseline or diagnostic data. And that's what folks opted in, of course, consent forward. We gave folks the opportunity to really drive their own process and have the opportunity to learn more about their own health and have agency on how they wanted to leverage this information in service of their own goals. And so we heard from the team resounding insights. There was, like, conversations that were happening, of course, as folks are wanting to share or not and feeling a lot of energy around knowing and this unique insight into their own health that that emerged from this blessing.
- [24:24]
Lindsay Fuller
And very concretely, I should say, we are not endorsed. We're not getting kickbacks. We went with function health. There are many screeners. Medical and physical health is sensitive, especially for marginalized communities where the medical system has not been a safe place. And so there were a couple of things that we wanted to be true, that they had choices. We made it explicit every time we talked about it and in writing that there would be no mandate to return to the organization and share any information. And all supervisors were trained not to ask about it unless the teammate brought it forward. And these are trauma informed, healing centered parameters that need to be launched because that is a way to build trust or to rupture it.
- [25:09]
Host
Okay, before we go to number two, we need to respond to this. I need you to know how much hope it brings me for the sector that you are tipping that domino so confidently and boldly to give comfort to others to take this path as well. You have said we want healthy humans, healthy humans that can come and go into this work and go back to their lives and their passion and their people and feel vibrant the entire time. Wow.
- [25:39]
Becky
Yes.
- [25:40]
Host
Okay, so that was the first one. Let's get into financial freedom.
- [25:46]
Becky
Yes. I can kick us off with financial freedom. So we are teachers and part of what we know to be true as well, and I always say this is that understanding finances can be a tool of liberation as well as a tool of oppression. And so that's how I feel about budgets. That's why I love budgets. I'm like, oh, everyone needs to know about budgets and understand the budgets. Because ultimately, what our organization dreams is only Possible if it's codified in the budget. And so what we wanted to bring to our team is an opportunity to do some collective learning around finances. And many of us were finding ourselves at different stages of our lives. Some folks caring for elders in their life, some folks just starting family, some folks not partnered. We were just in such different stuff spaces. And whenever we would talk about this, we often would go like, oh, if I could just go back in time and somebody would have told me about these Roth IRAs or somebody had talked. What is this 401k situation? Right. We just. I personally did not grow up with that being part of my lived experience. I didn't have folks model for me. I. We didn't talk about money. And so we wanted to really create an opportunity for our folks to one, normalize what it is to learn and two, to be empowered to make decisions. We launched a 401k plan for our team and we did a 4% match for folks and had our folks have been receiving this benefit now for some time. So we were finally at a place where folks were asking questions of like, but what does it mean if I go up a percent or what does it mean if I put a portion of that into a roth? And collectively we were coming to a place where we're starting to have these questions. And so we were able to partner with some folks to come in and give us some insight and, and help us learn together and collectively understand these systems in ways that would create long term financial viability for each of our individual homes. So that was our second benefit or sorry, our second blessing.
- [27:58]
Lindsay Fuller
See, look and we.
- [27:59]
Becky
I know I slip, I slip.
- [28:01]
Lindsay Fuller
That's all right. And because do it, we still love it because we love this for us and we want this to be codified. Like you could tell we want these all to be benef. But I'll just add on this like we've been listening and I think many of our teammates, this was something on the mental load on the later list, on the should on the I need to, but I don't have time to. And so because we hold three hours of internal PD every week, we have sacred time that we could leverage. That didn't add additional meetings to our team's calendar. That wasn't an after work exploration. It was a push in. It was free to them. Many of them have taken their professional development dollars and actually started working with some of the experts that we brought in. And it, to me, I'll just say has shattered some of the stigma that money is a Secret because my family also didn't talk openly about money. And now Marisol and I have had a couple conversations where I'm like, what? And we'll design a budget tool or something like that. And how are you talking about this? And oh, we got to do this. And one of the people even sat with us and held office hours for people to open Roth iras. Live with scaffolding and support.
- [29:09]
Host
So cool.
- [29:11]
Lindsay Fuller
And so I think just there is some anxiety always that once you see. Once you know better, you do better. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. And now our team's like, but we'll come through it. We'll come through it. And we're glad that we invested in this way.
- [29:26]
John
I'm glad you lifted that PD because it came up on one of the Gather at the well episodes of Just like Yalls commitment to actually the growth and development of your team. Like it's audacious to carve out three hours a week. And I just want to normalize that because you're okay that everyone is a work in progress. Learning like that's what we all are.
- [29:49]
Lindsay Fuller
And then asterisks though, because don't, don't be like, well, the teaching well said, we should do three hours of pd. If the PD should have been an email, then have be an email.
- [29:56]
Host
Yeah.
- [29:56]
Lindsay Fuller
I want to say really clearly, like I, and I always caution
- [30:02]
Becky
sometimes they should be emails.
- [30:04]
Lindsay Fuller
It will break their trust and it won't grow their practice. But I, I feel so excited by the, the level of rigor and differentiation, the sustainability, the co regulatory somatic work we're doing together, the coaching work we're doing together, the consultations we're doing together. So there's a balance of input and collaboration and output in our three hours. So I just want to say that hit us up if you have questions, but send the email. That should have been an email. Queen, I'm looking at you
- [30:34]
John
Blessing three. It's under your chair. Everyone check underneath your chair. There's a blessing.
- [30:38]
Lindsay Fuller
And you get a micro sabbatical.
- [30:40]
Host
And you get a micro sabbatical.
- [30:42]
Lindsay Fuller
Okay. So the founder did have this vision that at the three year point, which three years is a major indicator for attrition in many companies cross sector that at the three year mark, folks should have an extra five days off to engage in reflection and restoration. So that was already here. And as many folks know, if you tuned into Gather at the well season three, it's all about the three R's and really my learnings from the sabbatical that I was so fortunate to receive. I did an eight week micro sabbatical this past summer. And one of the things that became crystal clear to me as I emerged was that sabbatical should not be afforded solely to the number one seat. And so we needed to embark on a process of democratizing access to this type of rest that is protected. Marisol and I had been talking about it for years. It was always a dream of ours. And I would say of the three blessings, this one is the most codified. Because Marisol, don't play about the audit. Marisol, don't play with our accounting. I will say that we are 100% aligned in this. And of all of these blessings, and maybe arguably of all of the benefits in our org, this is one where my vision and mouth popping off required the most labor for operations. And I take real responsibility for that. And I have profound gratitude for Marisol and Emily Perea, our senior operations manager.
- [32:22]
Host
Hi, Emily.
- [32:23]
Lindsay Fuller
Who put incredible work into making this possible. I want to be very clear with all EDs, this undertaking puts a lot of extra work on ops and you need to be very aware of that. And you need to give a lot of love and coffee to your ops leader.
- [32:42]
Becky
Yes, a little cafecito. Because there's an incredible spreadsheet that tracks.
- [32:48]
Host
Of course you do.
- [32:49]
Becky
That makes it possible for us to know who is approaching. And so what we've decided is at the five year mark, folks will get four weeks that are, in addition to any other benefit, continuous weeks to step away to restore, replenish, refill and then come back. And so this summer we have four teammates, including myself, who will be going on a four week micro sabbatical. And we've laid out a plan for the next 10 years so that we know we have projections of when other teammates will be going out so that it is sustainable and the team doesn't have to weather the impact of this in a way that is disproportionate and that everyone can sort of rest into knowing, oh, 2029, that's when I go. 2031, that's when I go. And so this notion, again, this is one of those blessings that's really moving into the benefits space where we're saying in the future, we are planning for, we're accounting for this. It is in the budget. There's a line item in there to ensure that we are building a system to ensure that this is possible moving forward.
- [34:07]
Lindsay Fuller
That's right. And the full arc is three years. You get an extra week Five years, you get four weeks. Seven years, you get extra two weeks. Ten years, you get eight weeks. So that is our micro sabbatical arc. And we don't know past 10 because ain't nobody been in here for 10. But we'll cross that bridge. I will just say that like again, bless ops. You have to account for liability. These are counted just like PTO that travel year over year. You have to have precise accounting of and measurements of these things because they'll show up in your audit. We are compensating our teammates. Nothing changes about their salary or their benefits while they're on these micro sabbaticals. But I will say that in a dream world, folks would also get a wellness stipend in addition to that. We're not there yet. There's so many ways you can do this. And we believe deeply in a micro sabbatical because the alternative model is EDS get 6 to 12 months. So a lot of folks are like, oh, why so short? Because we can guarantee it for every teammate. And we're a collectivist community. And that is the most important thing to us, is that regardless of role, regardless of title, regardless of salary, regardless of tenure, you know exactly how the organization is going to be in reciprocal relationship with you so that you will give your all and we will give you all of the rest that you need at a predictable cadence.
- [35:32]
Host
Something I want to lift about this that I think is so nuanced and brilliant is core value number two at we are for good as we play the long game. And what you are doing to build your bench, the way you are building culture, the way you are building trust based leadership, it's not just about the sabbatical. What you just said. The collectivism creates an exhale initially and then I feel like it creates this. I want to stay here. I feel so loved and seen. And that is going to strengthen the mission of the teaching well, which will have a domino effect to helping all these other teachers. And look at you. You're coming into the nonprofit space. You're healing our people. You're healing people adjacent to the work. I thank you so deeply for it. And I also just want to give one last shout out to our OPS teams who are always in the background, who are creating safety, security and longevity. So thank you for pulling that out. And I want to go into one thing before we get into the one good thing. I want to talk about fear, because fear is as much a part of this work as. As much as our passion. And I want to talk about the fear that we collectively hold about how organizations spend their money. What do you say to leaders who want to invest in their people, but they feel like they just can't justify it?
- [37:06]
Lindsay Fuller
Well, Marisol and I care, and I don't think we could care anymore for our team. We care so deeply about our team. But because we're committed to being change leaders and not thought leaders, we have a responsibility to prove our career. Not to overextend and perform, but to codify and protect. And I think that that is such a natural leadership disposition to us, both because of how we're wired culturally, but also because we are educators. And so it's natural for us, but it's not natural in the nonprofit sector. And neither of us had worked in nonprofits. What I will say that is not maybe accessible to every nonprofit out there, but is our truth. Nonprofits are about stewarding public dollars. We're not a for profit. The teaching wall doesn't belong to Marisol and I, but there's also the reality that the earned revenue side of our work, that is the place where we have the most locus of control. And that's why as soon as we got in there, we understood that we had to both get our raised capital sources and diversified revenue streams very clear that I needed to be on this funder push, and foundations are my ministries. So if you want to invest in a stable workforce, hit us up at the teaching well, funders also. The earned revenue, that is the work. That money is no threat to philanthropy. That money is the closest part of money that we feel like we can really influence and leverage to pour into our team. And so if you are a nonprofit leader that has been questioning whether or not you should build program, do your landscape analysis, don't do something that's already out there. But if you have a unique contribution in the field and you understand your lane, you understand your gift, and there's a way for you to. To bring in some earned revenue. To me, that is the. The pot of money that has the potential for the most liberatory movement.
- [38:58]
John
I think explaining what that earned revenue looks like at teaching. Well, like, not in dollars, but like in what, how y' all show up. I think it's super inspiring, and it kind of expands the conversation for someone listening, never thinking about this.
- [39:12]
Becky
Yeah, absolutely. So we partner with schools to offer our services, and we both have our sort of signature model programming as well as a la carte services. And so folks can partner with us for as little as one professional development session all the way through a Multi year partnership of multiple services. And so we're able to work in partnership with schools and modify the offering to really meet their needs, but also to sort of meet their, their possibilities within their budget. And, and that's where some of that earned revenue is emerging from.
- [39:55]
Lindsay Fuller
Yeah. And I will say one thing that I was last year, years old. I don't think that's how that saying works.
- [40:00]
John
Yeah, it does.
- [40:01]
Host
I know exactly what you're talking about.
- [40:02]
Lindsay Fuller
I was in a. I was in a community filled with EDS. And after this year long commitment, there was a $10,000 honorarium that was given. And one of the things that the folks who put on this event said to me was, you were the only executive director that gave the 10k to your org. And this was in year four. This was in year four. And I'm not knocking all the eds that are out here doing speaking gigs. Trust me, I'm building on that too. And I'm actually, it's something I grapple with. Like when I do a keynote now, year five, I have this clarity when I do a keynote talking about my burnout story. That resource should come to me. There's a cost to that expression.
- [40:41]
Host
Right.
- [40:41]
Lindsay Fuller
But when I am representing a canned keynote as the executive director of the teaching, well, that money is for my organization. I don't think we are having an honest conversation with CEOs and EDs and boards and revenue earnings about that distinction. And I think that it is a place we need to really deepen in understanding. But I spent the first four and a half years where every single speaking gig I did, every single podcast I did, every hundred dollar honorarium I gave back to the org. Now I'm complicating that narrative and we as an organization are building a policy to make clear some parameters. But I will say that that spoke volumes last year when I was like, oh, even your speaking gigs. Yeah, it doesn't have to be. You have a service model yet. Even your speaking gigs could be going towards a pot to take care of your people. You get to decide if that's your value and need. It was a no brainer for Marisol and I because we don't get to be in this seat. You don't get to lead without a team.
- [41:46]
Becky
I think the last piece I want to layer on is like, all those things are true. And sometimes when engaging with our boards or engaging with some folks, it's like, but what is the bottom dollar? Right when we're thinking about reinvesting in our team and what I would layer on is at the end of the day, it is the business smart move. When we invest in our people, we save in turnaround and onboarding costs. And this is true in schools, this is true in nonprofits. This is true in the corporate world.
- [42:14]
Host
Right.
- [42:14]
Becky
And so at the end of the day, investing in our people, having them stay longer, having them give us the best that they have to offer, is the business savvy move. And so if there is a place where all of the other rationales have not necessarily sealed the deal, I would come to the table with that.
- [42:31]
Lindsay Fuller
That's right. Desperation does not drive donorship. That's what something that came through Sol and I as we were chatting just before this. Like, your financial solvency actually encourages reinvestment. And the only way your impact is sustained, which is what funders and what donors want to see that year over year, you're actually sustaining your impact. That doesn't happen in a solo effort. Be a collectivist, take care of your squad, and they will serve the greater community and we will actualize our missions with more efficacy.
- [43:01]
John
On behalf of everyone listening, thank you. Thanks for modeling it. Thanks for not running away from hard stuff. We've covered a lot today, but at the same time, I'm like, man, there's so much more to talk about of everything that's happened over the last few years. But I so I want to contour the one good thing. Y' all have given us a lot of one good thing energy already. But what's a one good thing? Looking back over the last five years, maybe that just kind of points out, as you think about doing this inside out transformational work, what's lifting for you?
- [43:31]
Becky
I would say there is a lot of apprehension to be transparent. And if we can build a cadence, then we build a muscle around it. And when we have to come and share not so great news, it is a lot easier to navigate. It's not easy, but it's easier to navigate. And so just inviting us to consider what does it mean for us to be transparent leaders? How are we building a predictable cadence around it so that we can be true to ourselves, but also so that our teams can trust into that.
- [44:06]
Host
I wish everybody had a Marisol in their.
- [44:09]
Lindsay Fuller
I also recommend it, just not mine. Sorry. That's like probably the biggest.
- [44:14]
John
That's how I feel when people say Julie mindset. I have Julie, just not Julie.
- [44:19]
Host
Yeah, take your get a producer, but not Julie.
- [44:22]
Lindsay Fuller
Nobody have a Julie convert except for us. Yeah, that's real. But that's. I feel like I have such an Abundance mindset. And then I get scarcity when it comes to Marisol. I'm like, wait. But hold on, wait, hold on, wait. You good, right?
- [44:34]
John
All the scarcity comes out.
- [44:36]
Lindsay Fuller
My one good thing is that despite all of the hard work, because turnaround work is hard. Marisol is so deserving of this sabbatical. I needed that sabbatical. At the end of five years, I feel more convicted. I feel more on purpose. I feel more encouraged. I am happier leading inside of this organization than I ever have been. Because when you act from a place of your values, it becomes more and more easeful to navigate uncertainty when you work with people that you actually like to work with. That's why hiring is so important. Everybody. The work becomes fun. I don't have the Sunday scaries anymore. I don't know. I think I've spent five years saying to all of the listeners, and we are for good and anyone who will listen, we need to change our relationship to work. And recently I've been looking up and I'm like, oh, we did it. Not that we've arrived. We have so much work to do as the teaching well. But, like, we are turned around. Like, we did it. We did a thing together. And it just. It's so dope for once to be able to now sit in a space where we can enjoy that. Because I think for so many of us, we turn around an organization and then we jump to the next burning fire. Sit for a minute. Make sure that you see the good stuff. Recognize when you did it, even if did it is just one step in the journey. Be with that.
- [46:09]
Host
Right before we get into this, how do people connect with you? I just want to read this because John teed this up for us early, because of course, I have it in my quotes file on my phone because I love it so much. But Lindsay said this, and I'm going to give you the full quote. Healing is messy work. Choose each other. Make time for healing. Make time to have conscientious, difficult conversations. Can we till the soil together? I believe we can.
- [46:39]
Lindsay Fuller
Well, hallelujah. Past self way to be coherent.
- [46:43]
Host
Can we till this soil together? You have just proven that you can. And because you can, we can. And so y' all come up and get up. Reach out to the teaching well. Feel free. If you are an OPS person, reach out to Marisol again, it clearly has the receipts. Tell people how they can connect with the teaching well, how they can connect with you. And then tell us what the teaching well needs so we can get some activation on your behalf.
- [47:13]
Lindsay Fuller
Ashe yeah, I really, really deeply appreciate this opportunity and I will say find us@theteachingwell.org I will say go beyond Marisol and I if you are a believer, if you're listening and you believe in the work that we're doing, find every single teaching well staff member on LinkedIn and connect with them because they are just as impactful as we are tenfold. So find us on LinkedIn, follow us on our Instagram account if that's your jam. And I would say, honestly, we are looking to replenish the well. We are looking to build our donor group because we know that there are other supporters, not just folks that care about retaining teachers and mental health in the field, but because you're in a nonprofit or the social sector and you don't yet believe that what we're talking about is accessible to you. Help us grow, help us sustain. And our promise is that we will continue to lift the veil and be the organization that is willing to teach human centered policies, practices and ways of being so that all of us can thrive. So please consider donating and replenishing the well.
- [48:20]
John
What a beautiful conversation. Grateful for you. Hey friend, thank you so much for joining us today. If you find yourself looking for a place to stay connected and keep learning between episodes, I hope you'll come and join us inside the We Are for Good community. Yeah, it is free. It's full of incredible non profit leaders like yourself and it's now an app and the Apple App Store and Google Play Store. So you can take this community with you wherever you go. Head over to weareforgoodcommunity.com to find us. We cannot wait to see you inside.