Podcast Summary: "Bad with Money? Get Better with Tori Dunlap"

We Can Do Hard Things
Host: Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, Amanda Doyle
Guest: Tori Dunlap
Release Date: July 27, 2025

1. Introduction to Tori Dunlap

The episode welcomes Tori Dunlap, a prominent financial feminist, author of the New York Times Best Seller Financial Feminist, and host of her own top-ranked podcast. Tori is recognized for her impactful work in empowering over five million women to negotiate salaries, pay off debt, build savings, and invest confidently.

Notable Quote:
Tori Dunlap [02:13]: "I've helped over 5 million women negotiate salary, pay off debt, build savings, and invest, changing their entire stories around money."

2. Personal Stories and Money Memories

The conversation begins with the hosts and Tori sharing their first memories related to money, highlighting how early experiences shape our financial behaviors and beliefs.

Glennon Doyle [24:12]: "I have two memories—watching my dad start a car with a screwdriver and creating a formal contract for borrowing a sweater. These moments instilled a sense of control and responsibility around money from a young age."

Tori Dunlap [20:37]: "My first memory of money is when my mom bought me a sandwich after I forgot my lunch. It made me associate money with love and scarcity, leading to fear and anxiety around spending."

3. Emotional Barriers to Money

Tori delves into the emotional aspects that hinder women from managing money effectively. She discusses concepts like the ostrich effect, where individuals ignore financial problems, and the pervasive shame associated with financial struggles.

Abby Wambach [07:36]: "All of us have to interact with money, but very few want to. The ostrich effect is a barrier where we hide our problems, expecting money to improve magically while feeling terrified to confront it."

Abby Wambach [10:36]: "Emotions like shame prevent honest conversations about spending and debt. We often see financial competence as innate, not a learnable skill, leading to a continuous shame cycle."

4. Societal Narratives and Gender

The discussion shifts to how societal expectations and gender roles influence women's relationship with money. Tori and the hosts explore how women are conditioned to view money through limiting narratives that differ starkly from those imposed on men.

Abby Wambach [11:08]: "From childhood, girls are given dolls and kitchens, teaching them that their value lies in selflessness and caring for others. When women pursue wealth, society labels it as greed, unlike men who are encouraged to expand and accumulate."

Abby Wambach [13:02]: "The patriarchy panics when women assert financial power because it's threatening. Women are told to be grateful and humble, while men are celebrated for wealth accumulation."

Amanda Doyle [16:03]: "In heteronormative relationships, women often lie about their earnings to align with societal expectations, while men do the opposite. Patriarchy harms both genders by enforcing these financial roles."

5. Redefining Money Stories

The guests discuss the importance of identifying and reshaping personal money stories to break free from limiting beliefs. They emphasize the need to understand money as a tool for freedom and self-respect rather than something inherently moral or immoral.

Abby Wambach [34:37]: "The right money story is one where you feel ownership over your money rather than it owning you. Money should provide options and choices, not dictate your life."

State of Childhood Influence:
Abby explains how childhood experiences, both positive and negative, shape our financial behaviors and beliefs, often leading to either hoarding or reckless spending as coping mechanisms.

6. Practical Steps to Improve Financial Health

Tori offers actionable advice for listeners to transform their financial relationship:

1. Un-ostrich Yourself
   Abby Wambach [50:54]: "Sit down and face your finances head-on. Treat it like a date with your money where you acknowledge its presence and impact on your life."

2. Align Spending with Values
   Tori Dunlap [53:03]: "Identify the top three areas in your life that bring you the most joy and prioritize your spending towards them. This reduces guilt and increases satisfaction."

3. Automate Savings
   Abby Wambach [53:52]: "Set up automatic transfers to your savings account. Start small and gradually increase to build the habit of saving without constant manual effort."

Additional Insights:
Glennon and Abby discuss the concept of "Zing"—the immediate gratification from spending money—and how reimagining Zing through saving can create long-term fulfillment without the accompanying guilt of mindless spending.

Glennon Doyle [56:29]: "Replacing the instant gratification of spending with the deeper satisfaction of saving transforms how money contributes to your well-being."

7. Overcoming External Judgments and Building Self-Respect

The hosts and Tori address the challenges women face when asserting financial independence in a society that often undermines it. They advocate for building internal self-respect and collective support among women to overcome external negativity.

Abby Wambach [45:07]: "Women should not feel the need to justify their financial success. Owning your achievements without seeking validation dismantles harmful societal expectations."

Amanda Doyle [46:43]: "We need to create a force of women who support each other without needing to be liked by everyone. Self-respect comes from within, not from external approval."

Glennon Doyle [47:40]: "True self-respect means being confident in your financial and personal decisions without relying on others' acceptance."

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

The episode wraps up with a reaffirmation of the importance of reshaping financial narratives and supporting each other in the journey toward financial empowerment. Tori emphasizes that increasing financial literacy and emotional understanding can lead to greater freedom and generational wealth.

Abby Wambach [59:47]: "Nothing bad happens when women have more money. They become more generous, empowered, and able to take control of their destinies."

Glennon Doyle [60:32]: "Shame around money holds us back. By embracing our financial stories without shame, we can take care of ourselves and live more fulfilling lives."

Tori Dunlap [50:54]: "Start by facing your finances, align your spending with what truly brings you joy, and automate your savings. These steps can transform your relationship with money."

Key Takeaways:

• Emotional Intelligence in Finances: Understanding and addressing the emotions tied to money is crucial for financial well-being.
• Challenging Societal Norms: Women must dismantle limiting societal narratives that hinder financial empowerment.
• Practical Financial Strategies: Implementing actionable steps like automating savings and aligning spending with personal values can lead to healthier financial habits.
• Collective Support: Building a supportive community of women helps overcome external judgments and fosters financial independence.

Final Quote:
Abby Wambach [57:40]: "Money allows you to exercise your self-worth, giving you the power to control your own life and support your community."

For more insights on transforming your financial journey, explore Tori Dunlap's book Financial Feminist and her platform, Treasury, focused on investing education for women.