Transcript

Brandi Carlile (0:00)

I don't know if it's just like my dykey ness, but like I say, I'll say to like my, you know, seven year old, be like, you look so beautiful, I can hardly talk to you right now. And Catherine's like, that is not the.

Glennon Doyle (0:11)

Right thing to say.

Brandi Carlile (0:12)

Stop talking.

Glennon Doyle (0:14)

Hey, pod squad. I'm sitting in my basement and waiting for Brandi Carlisle and Catherine Carlisle to arrive at my house. They're about to get here. They're about to come down here. And Brandi is about to sit with me and talk to me about her new album, Returning to Myself, which is the most personal portrait of Brandi Carlile's mind and heart that I've ever witnessed. And as Brandy's fan and more importantly, dear friend, I'm so excited for you to meet this side of Brandy. Kath's going to be here, Abby's going to be here, and I just don't think that you're going to miss. Want to miss this conversation because Brandy's about to get more vulnerable and raw than she ever has. And the Carlisle's are people who have changed our lives and who have become family to us. Brandi Carlisle's new album, which is my personal favorite that Brandy's ever written, is called Returning to myself, and it is out tomorrow. When I was little, I was really, really cute. Are we recording? Okay. I was a really, really cute little kid. And then I. And I actually remember the energy of that power. I only remember energetic things. Like, I remember that. The power of that. I remember like a leaning in of attention of a whatever, like a power in the world. And when I got so the kids would say chopped, like, I just, just the acne was so severe and the hair and the. All the things I got. So it was like a dramatic turn. And I could feel energetically the pulling way.

Brandi Carlile (2:21)

Oh, whoa.

Glennon Doyle (2:23)

Like the power of a beautiful little kid. And then losing all the power. And like, I even felt it. I. I feel like I felt it even from my parents. Like a, wow, what are we going to do?

Brandi Carlile (2:35)

So I don't know.

Glennon Doyle (2:37)

Anyway, Kath sent me the new album a long time ago and I have avoided listening to it. And the reason I avoid listening to your music when it's new is that I always feel like I have like a vase inside of me that is very full. And my job is to make no sudden movements to make sure that the vase doesn't spill out. And your music makes things spill very much so I knew I was going to need some time. I also are Mutual daughter Tish had told me repeatedly, like, when she came home from the studio with you, she said something about this being the best album. And I stopped her and said, do you seriously think this is going to be Brandy's best album? And she said, no. What I'm saying to you is this is the best album ever. And she's not, like, super dramatic about things that she says. So I was like, okay. Anyway, this last Thursday, this last Saturday morning, I Woke up at 7am and I was by myself upstairs and spent hours listening to every song. Although I. All the way through, then over again. And I think that she was right. I think it's the most incredible expression of you. And I'm not musically knowledgeable, so I just want to talk to you about the lyrics and what it all means and, like, what you were thinking.

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Brandi Carlile Has Returned to Herself"

We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle, Brandi Carlile, Catherine Carlile, and Abby Wambach
Date: October 23, 2025

Episode Overview

In this emotionally intimate episode, Glennon Doyle welcomes acclaimed musician Brandi Carlile (joined at times by her wife, Catherine Carlile) to discuss Brandi's new album, "Returning to Myself." Together with co-hosts Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle, the Pod Squad explores themes of self-discovery, vulnerability, the tension between introspection and community, and the creative process. Through stories, laughter, and tender introspection, Brandi shares what it means to return to oneself—and how that journey is at the heart of her latest, most personal album.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Power and Pain of Self-Returning

Brandi’s Album Inspiration
- Brandi describes the album as her most personal work:
  
  "I'm proud of all of my albums... but I've never loved one so personally... I don't care enough to change a single thing about it. It's got me in some places that I haven't been had access to for a really long time."
  — Brandi Carlile [04:20]
- The album began with a poem titled "Returning to Myself", written in a moment of intense aloneness in a barn in upstate New York. The solitude was “miserably and utterly alone... It’s a nightmare for me.”
  — Brandi Carlile [09:06]
Returning as Aloneness and Necessity
- Glennon asks what’s “in the aloneness” for Brandi, prompting reflection on discomfort and distraction:
  
  “None of the things I like to do with my hands... I feel I'm wasting time... I feel dormant.”
  — Brandi Carlile [11:32]
- The lyric: “Returning to myself is a lonely thing to do, but it’s the only thing to do.”
  — [11:49]

Community vs. Self

Community or Self: The Tension
- Glennon reflects on how Brandi and Catherine have taught her about choosing community over self, shifting her own focus outward.
  — [09:14]
- Brandi acknowledges her discomfort with being alone, and explains her comfort with "being alone with people." She distinguishes her style from her British wife Catherine’s social grace:
  
  “You can come in. There's the fridge. Like, I am playing Zelda right now.”
  — Brandi Carlile [10:37]

Creative Process & Song Meanings

"Returning to Myself" (title track)
- Written out of total solitude, inspired by heavy weekends with Joni Mitchell at the Hollywood Bowl, and the realization of being consumed by another artist’s journey.
  — [07:25]
"Woman Overseas"
- A song about Catherine, inspired by her ability to deeply connect with others but often not reveal herself:
  
  "Even married to her, even I am sitting next to this puppeteer... socially graceful and charismatic. I’m proud to walk into every room with her because she just wins the day... but does Kath feel loved?"
  — Brandi Carlile [15:55], [16:41]
"You Without Me"
- Sparked by watching her daughter Evangeline’s first soccer lessons and realizing the bittersweetness of watching loved ones thrive independently:
  
  “That's the you. That’s the one without... me.”
  — Brandi Carlile [23:12]
“The Long Goodbye”
- Memoir-like reflection on time, aging, the sweet spot of mid-life and the fear of rushing the ‘second half’:
  
  "I'm okay having lost those years... I'm writing about my journey, the chaotic, dangerous middle, then the love of my life and my family. I’m so jealous for those years... Don’t speed up the second half of life."
  — Brandi Carlile [41:30]
On Identity and Separation
- Glennon probes the album’s repeating motif:
  
  “Every song is sort of about... can we be known? Are we all alone in here?”
  — Glennon Doyle [49:48]
- Brandi agrees the ache comes from the illusion of separation, and the songs revolve around our longing to overcome it.

On the “Great and Mighty Me”: Critiquing Self-Focus

Brandi pushes back on a culture obsessed with individual self-optimization:

“At least if we’re going to do it... we can remove the blockage at the end of the road so that it’s circular and comes back out into the world again... there’s too much influence to just serve the self... If it bothers you, cut it off... that is seen as growth and evolution... I’m like, no, if you don’t understand, keep asking the question.”
— Brandi Carlile [54:22]

Vulnerability and Artistic Boundaries

Brandi on including vulnerable songs:

“Anniversary... one of those ones that, like, makes my skin crawl... I felt so self-conscious and uneasy... Right up until the final day of turning in the master... I had to make myself calm down by telling myself I didn’t have to put it on.”
— Brandi Carlile [46:48]
Catherine’s reaction:

“She just wrote back: ‘These are two of your best songs. We don’t have to talk about it.’”
— Brandi Carlile [65:13]

Relationships, Friendship, and Finding Home

Brandi and Glennon share tender stories about the meaning of home, the sound of visitors (“car wheels on a gravel road”), and learning to be themselves in the presence of others:
- “My most comfortable place... is being together. Somebody’s coming to be with me.”
  — Brandi Carlile [55:32]
- Glennon, on her own growth:
  
  “I have people I can be alone with... people I can still not change for, not perform for. That’s real friendship, a real community.”
  — Glennon Doyle [58:49]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On self-acceptance and creative integrity:

“Whether that's right or wrong. That's exactly what I meant.”
— Glennon Doyle [05:24]
On the meaning of ‘Returning to Myself’:

“Returning to myself is returning myself to my family.”
— Brandi Carlile [13:36]
On art and healing:

“My gift is like: I’m an unhardener of hearts.”
— Brandi Carlile [62:08]

Timestamps for Key Segments

00:00–02:35 — Lighthearted opener and Glennon on childhood & power
04:12–09:14 — The making of the album, “Returning to Myself” poem, and the barn story
10:05–11:49 — Inward vs. outward: Brandi’s way of being
13:36–16:42 — The story of “Woman Overseas”
21:33–26:17 — The origin of “You Without Me”
27:19–30:53 — “War with Time” & growing up
31:22–36:14 — The song “Human” and the wildfire sun metaphor
40:53–45:23 — “The Long Goodbye,” aging, and the value of midlife
49:48–52:14 — The existential core: Are we alone? The “jail of separation”
54:22–55:00 — Brandi’s critique of wellness/self-obsession
55:19–59:14 — Car wheels on a gravel road: Home, performance, and friendship
62:08–66:13 — On being vulnerable in music, “permission to be just a smidge human” in queer relationships
67:21–end — Parting words: The only thing to do is to return to ourselves

Tone & Style

The conversation is raw, intimate, and honest, with moments of laughter, gentle ribbing, and profound vulnerability. The group’s friendship and deep mutual respect create a safe container for reflection and warmth.

Summary Takeaway

Brandi Carlile’s return to herself is, paradoxically, a movement both inward and outward—a cyclical journey where deeper self-meeting allows for richer connection with others. Through unflinching honesty, music, and community, Brandi, Glennon, and their tribe reckon with the ache of separation and the joy found only through both solitude and radical togetherness.

Memorable sign-off quote:

“You are free to return to yourselves. I know it's a lonely thing, but it's the only thing.”
— Glennon Doyle & Brandi Carlile [67:21]

Brandi Carlile Has Returned to Herself