We Can Do Hard Things: Celeste Ng - Why You Feel Stuck (Best Of) Release Date: April 13, 2025

In this compelling episode of We Can Do Hard Things, host Glennon Doyle, alongside co-hosts Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle, engages in a profound conversation with bestselling author Celeste Ng. The discussion delves deep into themes of identity, societal expectations, motherhood, and the challenges women face in reconciling personal desires with imposed roles. Through the lens of Celeste Ng's literary works, particularly Little Fires Everywhere and her latest novel, Our Missing Hearts, the episode unpacks the complexities of feeling "stuck" within societal constructs.

Exploring Whiteness and Power Through Fiction

Abby Wambach initiates the conversation by highlighting Celeste Ng's ability to intertwine personal struggles with broader societal issues. She states:

"Each of your books just feels like this. It's not answers, but just beautiful explorations of these questions in the form of a character's life and love and struggles and decisions."
[03:42]

Celeste Ng responds by emphasizing that her narratives are not about providing solutions but navigating questions alongside her characters:

"I write my books always because not because I have answers at all, but because I'm working through those same questions."
[03:52]

The discussion zeroes in on the character Elena from Little Fires Everywhere, a representation that sparks significant dialogue about whiteness and the inadvertent biases held by individuals in positions of power. Celeste Ng describes Elena as someone with "good intentions" who struggles with her "unseen spots" and biases:

"She wants to do right... it's really difficult to know sort of what your own unseen spots are, what your own biases are."
[05:26]

Abby Wambach relates personally to Elena's character, portraying her as a "dormant volcano with lipstick on," symbolizing the suppressed anger and frustrations that come with societal expectations placed on white women.

The Terrifying Question: "What Do You Want?"

A pivotal theme explored is the societal "sandbox" - the predefined roles and expectations women are confined to. Amanda Doyle introduces the concept through the metaphor of the Betty Crocker cookbook, which dictates women's fulfillment through domestic tasks:

"...recipes are telling women what they should want... and we cannot find our fulfillment in those things."
[11:39]

Celeste Ng expands on this, discussing the generational gap and the struggle to envision fulfillment beyond existing societal structures:

"It's hard to imagine something that doesn't exist... we're in a hard period of trying to imagine a new space."
[12:44]

The conversation addresses the internal conflict women face when breaking away from these molds, as exemplified by Elena's rage upon realizing that the societal promises did not lead to genuine happiness.

Superhuman Expectations and Embracing Imperfection

The hosts delve into the unrealistic expectations placed on women to be perfect in every role they undertake. Celeste Ng advocates for normalizing imperfection and rejecting the notion of being superhuman:

"You're a human being. You can't do all those things... it's normalizing the idea that you... cannot do everything,"
[29:49]

Amanda Doyle and Abby Wambach reinforce this by highlighting the importance of grace and community support over individual perfection.

Parenting in a Complex World: Nurturing Empathy and Resilience

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the challenges of parenting amidst societal turmoil. Abby Wambach shares her experiences teaching her son about racism and societal issues in an age-appropriate manner:

"We're trying to teach our kids to be part of a society... how do I prepare him for this?"
[53:03]

Celeste Ng emphasizes the delicate balance of protecting children while making them aware of the world's complexities, fostering resilience without instilling fear:

"Creating the space for that conversation to happen... making it so that he's aware that these are things that exist."
[55:23]

The discussion underscores the importance of community and support systems in alleviating the pressures of societal expectations on both parents and children.

Introducing Our Missing Hearts: A Novel for the Current Moment

Abby Wambach expresses her admiration for Celeste Ng's latest work, Our Missing Hearts, highlighting its relevance in today's socio-political climate:

"It's gonna shake people in that opera singer way... it's an un. Truly powerful act, not just of art, but of motherhood."
[53:23]

Celeste Ng provides an overview of the novel, describing it as a story set in a fear-driven America where anti-Chinese sentiment leads to oppressive laws. The protagonist, a 12-year-old boy named Bird, embarks on a quest to find his estranged mother, navigating themes of hope, parental responsibility, and resistance against systemic oppression:

"It's a story about parents and children and how you can still give hope to the next generation... even when it feels like the world is a very dark place."
[45:19]

The novel serves as both a reflection of contemporary issues and a call to action, urging readers to consider their roles in fostering a more just and compassionate society.

Empathy Through Fiction: Understanding and Connection

The episode concludes with an exploration of how fiction fosters empathy and understanding. Celeste Ng discusses the role of writers in creating characters that resonate with readers, thereby bridging gaps in understanding:

"If you can connect with somebody on a very small level... then you can start to understand what their problem is."
[59:58]

Abby Wambach echoes this sentiment, emphasizing the transformative power of storytelling in promoting empathy and societal change.

Key Takeaways

• Societal Constructs: The episode illuminates how societal expectations confine individuals, particularly women, to restrictive roles that hinder personal fulfillment and growth.

• Embracing Imperfection: Emphasizing the importance of normalizing imperfection, the discussion encourages breaking free from the unattainable ideal of being superhuman.

• Parenting with Awareness: Navigating the complexities of parenting in a multifaceted world requires fostering resilience and empathy in children while providing them with the tools to understand and challenge societal issues.

• Fiction as a Catalyst: Celeste Ng's works exemplify the power of fiction in fostering empathy, understanding, and inspiring societal change by presenting nuanced characters and challenging existing norms.

Notable Quotes

• Abby Wambach:
  "Is the bound of white womanhood... where the anger comes from is the place where you don't really have power."
  [07:33]

• Celeste Ng:
  "Fiction is almost like a doorstop that kind of wedges the door open... it's just holding a space where new stuff could come."
  [15:08]

• Amanda Doyle:
  "You are a human being. You can't do everything. So stop. It's not possible."
  [31:10]

• Celeste Ng:
  "What's happening to you is also relevant to me. That there is a point of connection."
  [60:56]

Conclusion

This episode of We Can Do Hard Things offers a rich and nuanced exploration of the factors that contribute to feelings of being "stuck" within societal frameworks. Through Celeste Ng's insightful perspectives and the hosts' empathetic engagement, listeners are encouraged to question ingrained societal norms, embrace imperfection, and foster empathy both personally and collectively. The conversation serves as a powerful reminder that while life presents numerous challenges, understanding and compassion can pave the way for meaningful change and personal liberation.