← We Can Do Hard Things
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- [00:00]
Kristen Press
Foreign.
- [00:11]
Glennon Doyle
Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. You are not going to want to miss this episode because today we have the Kristen Press and the Tobin Heath. Kristen Press is a two time World cup champion, two time Olympic Gold medalist and an equal pay pioneer. She is one of the all time top 10 goal scorers on the national team and currently plays for Angel City FC. Kristin led the U.S. women's National Team's historic achievement of equal pay and served as the leader of the U.S. women's National Team Players association for two years. Kristin is co founder and co CEO of Re Inc. A values led brand that exists to reimagine the way women are seen and experienced in sports. She sits on the board of Grassroots Soccer, a non profit organization that uses the power of soccer to provide mentors, information and health services to at risk youth in Africa. Tobin Heath is a two time World Cup Champion and a two time Olympic Gold medalist. Known as one of the most skillful and entertaining players in the game. Throughout her club career, Heath has played for psg, the Portland Thorns, Manchester United and Arsenal. Tobin has taken her vision, leadership and creativity off the pitch and into her roles as co founder and co CEO of RE Inc. And host of the critically acclaimed show which Abby and I are obsessed with, the recap show World Cup Edition. Welcome to two of our favorites, Kristin and Tobin.
- [01:44]
Abby Wambach
How are you guys?
- [01:45]
Kristen Press
We are good.
- [01:46]
Tobin Heath
Oh and can we just quickly tell you that one, I think I sent this to you, but I literally have listened to every single episode of your podcast except for my own. And I wanted to say that I became obsessed with Enneagrams, which I'm sure I'm not the only one who tells you this, but because of your show, to the point where like poor Tobin, our lives are ruled by the Enneagrams and it is also kind of fearful.
- [02:13]
Kristen Press
Her lies are ruled by.
- [02:15]
Abby Wambach
What numbers are you guys? What's your number, Kristen?
- [02:18]
Tobin Heath
Three. Seven.
- [02:19]
Glennon Doyle
Three and seven. So you two are my sister and Abby, you're missing a four.
- [02:26]
Kristen Press
Yeah, and I was actually, I didn't know that your sister wasn't gonna be on it. I've heard a lot about her and I was like, wait, what?
- [02:33]
Tobin Heath
I know it's because Amanda only joins when there's like an expert on. So when I join she never.
- [02:43]
Glennon Doyle
That is not true.
- [02:45]
Tobin Heath
That's not true. I was like, well what am I an expert at?
- [02:48]
Kristen Press
I did say. I was like when Kristin said when you text about the double date and I was like, wait, so you got to talk about something meaningful? And I have to talk about our relationship.
- [03:02]
Abby Wambach
We'll have you back on Tobin. Just solo you.
- [03:04]
Amanda Doyle
Oh, my God.
- [03:05]
Abby Wambach
And the next time we have Kristen on our relationship.
- [03:08]
Tobin Heath
So meaningful. It is meaningful. Thank you.
- [03:11]
Glennon Doyle
That sentence is so amazing. You got to talk about something meaningful, and I'm stuck with our relationship.
- [03:16]
Abby Wambach
Well, Tobin, I don't know. Tobin, did you hear the Suzanne Stabil episode that we did on And I'm a seven, And I've been doing a ridiculous amount of work in therapy right now, trying to discover more about my shadow side, like, the sadder emotions that I don't ever feel or want to feel, and that's been real interesting.
- [03:38]
Kristen Press
Yeah.
- [03:39]
Tobin Heath
Well, I also followed your lead and got went into therapy after I learned about my enneagram, legitimately listened to your podcast, found out what my enneagram was, and then signed up for therapy. But I have tried to get Tobin to, like, start to think about her shadow side, and it's not going well for us.
- [03:57]
Glennon Doyle
It's okay.
- [03:58]
Kristen Press
It's there.
- [03:59]
Glennon Doyle
It's there.
- [04:00]
Tobin Heath
The shadow side's there.
- [04:01]
Kristen Press
It's there.
- [04:02]
Glennon Doyle
Are you, like, a bright sider? Like, do you want to stay on this side of things? You want to stay on the happy side? Look on the bright side, not delve too?
- [04:09]
Tobin Heath
Yeah.
- [04:10]
Glennon Doyle
Okay. Okay.
- [04:12]
Kristen Press
No, I am.
- [04:14]
Tobin Heath
Yeah.
- [04:14]
Kristen Press
I never knew I. I was devoid of negative feelings.
- [04:19]
Glennon Doyle
Okay.
- [04:19]
Kristen Press
I always. I always found it to be my superpower. Right.
- [04:22]
Abby Wambach
Me, too.
- [04:22]
Kristen Press
Your superpower is also, like, your greatest. I do think it probably has helped in sport.
- [04:27]
Abby Wambach
Yes.
- [04:28]
Kristen Press
A lot of ways.
- [04:28]
Abby Wambach
Yes. It's really not great when you retire, though. It's toughy.
- [04:33]
Kristen Press
Yeah. I also think that I've, like, kind of reframed that in a way as well.
- [04:40]
Glennon Doyle
How so? I have a feeling that she's big on the reframe. This is the re Ink reimagine. Let's go ahead and reframe your resistance to the other half of being human. Right. Which is the sad stuff.
- [05:01]
Tobin Heath
Yeah.
- [05:02]
Kristen Press
I just think that Kristin kind of makes me confront that side, and I am the shadow. She is living in the shadows. Sometimes we just have to get in the water, you know?
- [05:18]
Glennon Doyle
Do you, too, Know, what's interesting is that it turns out. Okay, I didn't know this until this recent iteration of therapy this year, but it turns out that Kristen is actually not the shadow, and you're the light, so people polarize. So, like, if I want Abby to. Hello. Pay attention to all of the horrible things that could happen. Let's get anxious. Let's get a little depressed. Then I'm constantly. That Side. Then she goes into therapy, and she's just fucking bitching all the time. And I'm like, lighten up, Frances. Like, no. I am like a bit of ray of sunshine around here lately. I get to be fully human.
- [06:13]
Tobin Heath
Oh, interesting. That's the messy middle. That's not being so black or white. That's what I'm working on in therapy. Yes. So much black and white thinking. So it's like, if you are always happy, then I'll just always be evil.
- [06:29]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah. Yeah. Or. You know what has been interesting? Abby is a very nervous parent. She's, like, always worried so much. Okay. And especially since they've become teenagers and I. You guys, I'm like. Suddenly I'm like the dad. I'm like, they're fine. Everything's fine. It's all gonna fucking work out. And I'm like, oh, this is how men feel. Like, you just need a wife to be chill. It's not like a personality type. It's like somebody else is worrying. So you get to be calm.
- [07:04]
Tobin Heath
So that's reassuring. So you're like, she's busy worrying.
- [07:07]
Kristen Press
I'm good.
- [07:08]
Glennon Doyle
And then you get to be like, everything nice.
- [07:10]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [07:11]
Glennon Doyle
Anyway, I leave that for you.
- [07:13]
Kristen Press
Yeah. I was gonna say it's such a nice thing to have.
- [07:17]
Amanda Doyle
It really is.
- [07:18]
Glennon Doyle
It really is. So it's interesting we have a friend who called Abby and said, I heard that you're doing shadow work. I'm also a seven, but I don't want to do anything about it, and I'm not going to. I like my life and I like being this way.
- [07:30]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [07:30]
Abby Wambach
She goes, if there's anything, like, really.
- [07:32]
Tobin Heath
Important, such a seven, if I should.
- [07:35]
Abby Wambach
Know anything, just let me know, like, what it is like, after you do the work. Let me know if, like, there's something that I could use.
- [07:41]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah.
- [07:42]
Kristen Press
You're like, it doesn't really work.
- [07:43]
Glennon Doyle
I know, but. But a seven would want that. Just give me the. Oh, the notes.
- [07:49]
Abby Wambach
Give me the notes.
- [07:50]
Glennon Doyle
Okay. So I'm so excited to talk to you about a situation that you two are. I don't know, just doing that is actually quite revolutionary in the world right now. And I want to talk to you about it as actually, as you're the experts on it.
- [08:07]
Abby Wambach
Hey. Okay.
- [08:09]
Glennon Doyle
You're the experts on it because no one else is doing it. No, you are. And it's something that in, like, my recovery right now, I'm thinking about non, stop, non stop about. And that is privacy. So I read Kristen say that both of you have a joy for sacredness and that you deeply appreciate privacy and that you have an opportunity to model privacy as a valid way to be even in the public eye, as models, especially for people who might be struggling in their personal life or in ways that make them vulnerable in their community. Like their relationship could make them vulnerable in their community. So, in other words, while many people in the public eye, including athletes, are choosing to show their interior lives in, like, big and loud and public ways, which is valid and amazing, you, too, are showing to the queer community and to everyone the beauty of doing it quietly and privately, which is actually. It's revolutionary. And actually, it's resistance.
- [09:22]
Abby Wambach
Yeah, it is.
- [09:22]
Glennon Doyle
It's resistance. I'm like, I can't stop thinking about it now because we're in this world where your value is what you can show people and, like, the clickbait and the exposure. So I'm thinking about this a lot in terms of looking back on my last 15 years and, like, what my family has gained and what they have lost by opening ourselves up to the world. And it's a lot. It's like, one of those things I don't even like looking back on directly because there's a lot of things in the Lost column. So when you say you have a joy for the sacred, can you talk to me about. And also you can talk to Abby, too, because she's here. Can you talk to me about what sacred means?
- [10:09]
Tobin Heath
Yes. Do you want me to start?
- [10:11]
Kristen Press
Of course.
- [10:12]
Tobin Heath
I think that, like, when I think of what's sacred, I think that, like, sometimes in the world now, everything is happening so fast and so quickly, and you need immediate return on the things that you're doing. And when I think of something that's sacred, I think of something that's, like, intentional, and it's slow and it's a little bit ours, and I think, like, a little bit of protection from some of the worst parts of society. To your point, there's pros and cons, right? Like, as much as you've said we've lost a lot, I'm sure you've gained a lot. So it's not like. I don't think we have an attitude about, like, our ways. Good. I think, especially in a queer relationship, we think a lot about modeling and being brave and being out in a way that, you know, people need role models, and we've kind of had to, like, grapple with that and what is our calling, because it's not always the same. But as, you know, being on a team, it's very easy to look at what everybody else is doing and say, okay, that's the right way. And there's so much that I think we admire from our teammates and from public figures that have been out and proud, just like the two of you. Right. I think there's something so beautiful about that. But it never felt like it was like Tobin and my calling or it was not the right, maybe lifestyle or decision or series of decisions that reflected us. And I think we've also both felt like we had something to protect. And I, John, really always, like, try to chase the good. Like, I never want to make decisions because I'm, like, I'm afraid of the bad. But when it came to my relationship, like, that felt like erring on the side of the safe side and always protecting us and always protecting you. And then the last thing I'd say is it's like, the marriage of, like, our different perspectives and our different families and our different baggages, and it ended up being this, like, really unique way of living that we have that we actually don't see anywhere else that I think is important. It's become, like, a really important part of us. We obviously, we've been teammates, we run a business together. So I think, like, the way that I. I see it is it's, like, not, don't look at us, look at what we do. And it allows our relationship to be ours and special and feel a little bit safe, and it allows us to have a space to, like, share our passion and our life's work with more people.
- [12:43]
Abby Wambach
Wow.
- [12:44]
Glennon Doyle
Love it. Look, don't look at us, look at our work. And you both are on the same page. Like, what were the conversations? Like, how do you come to this? Because you have the same decision about this. Like, what is your decision making look like?
- [12:57]
Kristen Press
I don't know if it's so much of a decision making. I felt like it was kind of, like an extension of the way that I viewed, like, my life and my passions and my crafts is, like, also with that same kind of, I guess, specialness to it where, like, I feel like if there's something really, really good, you almost kind of, like, you want to create a space for it that's just for you, like, where you get to create your own worlds and stuff like that. And I feel like, especially in a world that just feels like everything's for other people, it's so hard to hold on to something that's for yourself. And even, like, when I think about football, it's like, I didn't do football to be, like, known. You Know, I did football because, like, I loved it. And it's like, I don't do my relationship to be known. I do my relationship because I'm so crazy in love. And I feel like once you start giving things, what do you have for yourself? And it's, like, hard.
- [13:56]
Tobin Heath
I actually think that's such an important part because. And I think you all understand there's some twisted thing. You know, we are in the queer community, and we're fighting with the queer community for rights and all these things and protections and opportunities. And yet, as a queer public figure, it actually felt like us coming out and being really public in our relationship would be a huge advantage. It felt like we would have a bigger following, we'd be able to make more money, we're more marketable together. And that made it less interesting.
- [14:31]
Glennon Doyle
That's.
- [14:33]
Kristen Press
Yeah, that made it so not interesting because.
- [14:35]
Glennon Doyle
So let me. So you didn't want to monetize your relationship? Is that what you're saying? I'm confused. So you. You were not interested in monetizing your Got it. Okay.
- [14:48]
Abby Wambach
I mean, I just think that that's.
- [14:50]
Glennon Doyle
Revolutionary Difference between sacred and not sacred.
- [14:53]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [14:53]
Glennon Doyle
I mean, things we monetize and things we don't. Okay.
- [14:58]
Abby Wambach
It's like crossing this sacred boundary, and we just. I think it was natural. I was out. You were, like, the Gay Pride leader of the world when we met. Do you think that we monetize our love?
- [15:13]
Glennon Doyle
Oh, come on. Yes.
- [15:15]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. We have shit and.
- [15:19]
Glennon Doyle
Okay.
- [15:20]
Abby Wambach
Can we, like, pull the genie back into the lamp?
- [15:23]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, always. Always. I mean, because I feel a lot.
- [15:26]
Abby Wambach
Of envy right now for them.
- [15:28]
Glennon Doyle
Well, I think that there's something really beautiful. I think it sounds hard to make that decision just because anything that you're doing that's countercultural, that's different than what everyone else is doing in your position is so. And also the queer community is so focused on out, out, out.
- [15:46]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [15:46]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [15:47]
Glennon Doyle
And it reminds me of with feminism, where it's like, you have to be yelling all the time or you have to be loud or you have to be whatever. And it's like, no, it's. The idea is that everybody just gets to be themselves. So if your self is quieter, like, we have two different daughters, and one of them, freedom, looks quieter, and the other one, freedom, looks loud. But if you're just trying to fit another blueprint, then that's not freedom at all. So is there anything that you see happening in your friends, more public lives that make you feel like, yikes, that is not what we wanted? Are There things that you see that you, that affirm your decisions, judgment from the world.
- [16:37]
Tobin Heath
And that's not even about the relationship. It's just all of us, when we put ourselves out there, like, I don't enjoy the judgment, you know, I'll avoid that if I can. And the judgment, I think, comes from this idea that of permanence, of people see something that is right now and they just make a thousand assumptions about the rest of eternity. And you ask, like, how did we make that decision? And I actually think, like, Tobin and I made it quite differently. I would say Tobin is, compared to what is expected is extremely non committal. And so you can tell them your whole seven year contract situation if you'd like.
- [17:16]
Glennon Doyle
Please do.
- [17:17]
Tobin Heath
But I think there's something that Tobin said to me that I had to understand early because I had expectations of what a relationship is. And that was like, you know, you sign in blood that you'll never leave, no matter what, which always works well.
- [17:30]
Glennon Doyle
Always works well. It never goes well.
- [17:32]
Tobin Heath
And it modeled for me from my parents. And I was like, that's what love is. But then Tobin said to me, she said, every single day I wake up and I make a decision to be with you. And that's romantic to me. And I was like, oh, that makes me feel way better about your lack of commitment. Good job, good job. But I think it is beautiful. So I think part of what I've seen in other people, to answer your question, is the world assuming that they know about their relationship when they don't. And I don't want that. And I don't think that that was anyone's decision, but it was just the consequence of being in the public eye.
- [18:13]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [18:14]
Abby Wambach
Because like you, when you put anything out on social, oh, here we are, we're together. Then if it's like a pie like you, you give this fake pie of responsibility that these random people in the world think that they have on your relationship, and it's not true. Right. We all know, like most of us know that the people out there don't really know really what's going on. It's this fake contract that we have.
- [18:40]
Glennon Doyle
What's. Speaking of contract, what's the seven year contract?
- [18:43]
Abby Wambach
Oh, yeah.
- [18:45]
Kristen Press
Well, maybe this just comes from sports, but I, I just think that, like, relationships need to be like, redefined or reimagined. I think it's kind of like an insane expectation that you're going to make a decision and that decision is just going to be like for the rest of your lives. And it's not to deny that that's can totally work, But I've done research, and I've gone around and asked a lot of people, like, would you want the relationship your parents have? And I only met one person to date that said yes.
- [19:21]
Abby Wambach
No way. Yeah, I mean, that's for sure.
- [19:25]
Kristen Press
And it's like an. It's really important for me, like, for modeling, maybe, like, different ideas of what quite queer relationships can be. It's so weird to think that, like, in the queer community, we try to then label and define things where, like, the whole point is to be undefined and fluid and to be able to choose. And yet it's like, we need this clarity. And I think it's in the ambiguous nature of being queer. And that that word really vibes with me. Like, gay never vibed with me, but, like, queer really vibed with me. And it was like, in this fluidity because. And maybe this is part of the sevenness, but it's like, I don't want to be boxed in by any kind of label, any kind of definition. And honestly, one of the most beautiful things that, like, Kristen's ever given to me in my relationship was just, like, complete freedom. And, like, even in my, like, crazy ideas, because most of them is just, like, the idea of freedom. It's not this idea that, like, I'm going off and doing, like, all these crazy things. It's just this idea that I'm independent, I'm my own person. And, like, even within our relationship, I'm my own person. I can be seen. Seen as. As an individual piece of it. And for the choice part, that's probably the part that, like, I love. That makes things exciting for me. And, like, the fact that I have somebody that's literally a new choice every day because she's, like, a thousand different things all at once. So it's. It makes life super interesting. But, yeah, long story short, sorry, the contracts.
- [20:51]
Glennon Doyle
No.
- [20:52]
Kristen Press
And then I take it like sports, and I'm like, all right, how many years do you want? And then, like, at the end of a contract year, you come back together, and you. You say, is this something? Like, you want to sign up for how many years? And you sign another contract, or you just go your separate ways and you say, that was really fun. It's time to. Yeah, it's an out.
- [21:11]
Glennon Doyle
That's so cool. It's so wild. Because, like, yeah, but to be fair.
- [21:15]
Kristen Press
Kids, like, I have thought about this. Kids probably complicate the contract, but for now, the contract seems, like, pretty.
- [21:24]
Tobin Heath
Epic.
- [21:25]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, epic.
- [21:26]
Kristen Press
Yeah.
- [21:26]
Glennon Doyle
Pretty epic. It is interesting that it's like, we are queer and we want to do things differently, which means we just want the right to be as miserable as heterosexual.
- [21:36]
Tobin Heath
Yeah.
- [21:39]
Abby Wambach
That'S. I like this contract idea. I have a big fear of abandonment, so that.
- [21:45]
Glennon Doyle
Are you sweating?
- [21:46]
Tobin Heath
I don't think it's right for you.
- [21:47]
Glennon Doyle
You're, like, curled up in the fetal position right now.
- [21:50]
Abby Wambach
I'm like, scared that Glennon, after this, like, is going to be like, hey, I really like that idea that Tobin shared.
- [21:56]
Glennon Doyle
Well, let's talk about that for a second because this takes a lot of strength. This takes a lot of strength and, like, trust in yourself and in your person. It's just.
- [22:06]
Abby Wambach
Well, Kristin, how did you wrap your mind around this early days, like, when Tobin brought this to you?
- [22:13]
Tobin Heath
I think that Tobin is a lot more bark than bite. So this is my hopeful hypothesis. I always tell her she's like, you know, a dog that's like looking outside the fence, but as soon as you open the door, they like, tuck their tail and they run home. So I don't know if that means I truly wrapped my mind around it or. I just think it's like the right thing for her because I think there's me and my just like, impulses and what I want and my insecurities. I acknowledge those things sometimes, sometimes I bear them. But I try to function from the best version of me. And the best version of me is confident enough to believe that, one, she'll want to be with me, and two, if she doesn't, who would ever want to be with a partner that openly didn't want to be with them? So there's really no loss here. It's just giving her that feeling of freedom to be how she is and who she is.
- [23:13]
Glennon Doyle
What is that quote? That's like the highest expression of love is to love your person so that they constantly feel free. Like, freedom is the highest level of love. And that makes perfect sense because all of the contracts are so people cannot leave you under threat of money. Like, it is certainly not love based. It's fear based on woo.
- [23:39]
Kristen Press
And I think also because. And we can come back to, like, reasons why people stay in relationships. But, like, I think if you have like, independent self worth and actual worth, like you talk about financial freedom, it's a whole different dynamic as well.
- [23:56]
Tobin Heath
Oh, yeah, so true.
- [23:57]
Kristen Press
That can be on the next episode because that seems like a lot to dive into.
- [24:02]
Glennon Doyle
That's a lot. Thank you for that. I mean, you guys are so. I love people who are like, Doing their things, their brands, their things in the world. And then they're really like that in their life. You're, like, reimagining for real in your lives what life relationships can look like, doing it in such beautiful ways. It's so cool. It's awesome.
- [24:26]
Tobin Heath
Thank you.
- [24:27]
Abby Wambach
I agree.
- [24:36]
Amanda Doyle
Oh, my gosh. Okay, so I gotta tell you about something really special that we got to do recently, and I just want to say thanks to Airbnb because we had this chance to experience something way beyond, quote, unquote, just going to a game. So, on June 14, we hosted an Airbnb original Experience at the Angel City FC match. Wasn't that the best time? It was one of those days that just sticks with you. Core memory. First off, if you've never been to an Angel City FC game, you have to go. You're missing out. The energy is next level. It's not just about the sport, though. To me, you all know that that's important. It's about the community, the culture, and the pride that radiates throughout the whole stadium.
- [25:27]
Glennon Doyle
Truth. It's the best.
- [25:28]
Amanda Doyle
I know.
- [25:29]
Glennon Doyle
The absolute best. Especially right now. To be in that stadium with those people, it feels so good.
- [25:35]
Amanda Doyle
It's just the best. Watching these women work so hard. The fans are cheering, and it really isn't about who's winning. It's about all of us gathering together.
- [25:46]
Glennon Doyle
Babe, what you just said, it's not all about who's winning. It's about all gathering together. I think I.
- [25:53]
Amanda Doyle
You're changing me.
- [25:54]
Glennon Doyle
Oh, okay.
- [25:56]
Abby Wambach
Sorry.
- [25:56]
Glennon Doyle
Keep going.
- [25:57]
Amanda Doyle
All right, so this is what happened. Airbnb got together with us, and they said, what if we put you and Glennon in our experience world, where people got to sign up and come watch the game with us, right?
- [26:08]
Glennon Doyle
So we got to sit, you guys. We got to sit at an Angel City game, which is one of our favorite places to be in the entire world, with a group of people who were. Well, some of them were huge Angel City fans, and some of them were just huge pod squatters. It was like the soccer people versus the feely people. And Abby got to kind of host the soccer people, and I got to sit with the feely people who didn't really know what the hell was going on, but were just there for the vibes.
- [26:34]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. Yeah.
- [26:34]
Amanda Doyle
They were just there for the vibes.
- [26:35]
Glennon Doyle
It's amazing.
- [26:36]
Abby Wambach
And we had a suite.
- [26:37]
Amanda Doyle
We had a field level suite, and we got all of this awesome food. Even for us. We are season ticket holders. We don't get this experience. So it was like, really fun to experience this with the pod squatters. With some die hard Angel City fans. It was the best.
- [26:51]
Glennon Doyle
Good food, good people, good game, good time. We all shared snacks, traded stories about our favorite moments. I taught people a lot of wrong things about soccer. Abby taught people a lot of right things about soccer. We'd even started a group text by the end of the match. It honestly felt like I was a part of something. Like, not just watching a game, but kind of belonging. There was a lot of belonging vibes there.
- [27:12]
Amanda Doyle
Well, and that's the whole thing about sport. And that's why I think that it's easier for you even if you don't know everything about what's going on. It's all about the community and the belonging.
- [27:22]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah. Which was very cool. And I think that's what Airbnb is trying to do with these experiences. You could really feel that kind of difference of belonging. It was real, it was local. It was something you couldn't find just scrolling through a tourist guide.
- [27:34]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, I mean, I would check it out. It's definitely a different and cool way to experience the city, experience people. Wherever you're traveling to, it helps you unlock the real side of a place. Right. The community, the culture, the stuff that's not in the brochures. Plus, it's pretty affordable. You don't have to spend a ton to feel like the VIPs that I felt like.
- [27:55]
Abby Wambach
I mean, we were the hosts of.
- [27:57]
Amanda Doyle
This experience, and I felt like a VIP just by, like, being in the suite and getting all the free food and getting all the fun little extras that came with it.
- [28:05]
Glennon Doyle
God, we love free food.
- [28:06]
Amanda Doyle
I mean, listen, did you like my halftime talk?
- [28:08]
Glennon Doyle
Yes. Oh, Abby did a little pep talk for everybody in. Pep talk? Is that what they call it in the sports?
- [28:13]
Amanda Doyle
Well, it was a halftime talk halftime speech.
- [28:16]
Glennon Doyle
It was a huddle up.
- [28:17]
Amanda Doyle
Pep talk is usually like, prior to the game, but I guess like a PE talk could. Could also live in. In the halftime of it all. So whether you're new to LA or you've been here forever, I can't recommend trying an Airbnb experience enough, Especially one like this. It's a reminder that really, the best moments, the ones that stick, are the ones where you really connect. And hey, if you're ever in town for a match or just looking to shake up your weekend plans, check out the experience section on Airbnb. Also, go to an Angel City match. If you haven't gone, check out experiences for your next trip@airbnb.com experiences. You will not be disappointed.
- [29:02]
Abby Wambach
I want to kind of switch gears, if you guys don't mind, for like the. The non soccer pod squatter. Listening to this, you heard Tobin earlier say football. She meant. Not American football. She meant soccer.
- [29:15]
Glennon Doyle
Tobin is a linebacker.
- [29:19]
Abby Wambach
Kristin, can you describe Tobin as a soccer player or a footballer?
- [29:25]
Tobin Heath
Oh, I think you have to go back in the archives. I feel like, oh, no. I hope I do her justice.
- [29:32]
Glennon Doyle
That's sweet.
- [29:33]
Tobin Heath
Tobin as a footballer, I think she's incredibly creative. She's very brave. It's like an art. It's a dance. Like, everything about her personality is out on the field. She's also extremely competitive. And actually, when I watch, she looks like her least happy self. Like the happy, easygoing, kind person I know all the time is gone. I know someone on the field that is very crazy. And as she, like, developed and became the best version of herself, she actually, actually became incredibly disciplined. Like an amazing defender, extremely smart and knowledgeable. And so when she was younger, she was sort of like, oh, Tobin, so good she doesn't need to defend. And then she became like, amazing at what people said she wasn't good at just to like, kind of prove a point. And then became like a very well rounded player. And in her very last couple of last years, she started scoring more goals, too.
- [30:35]
Abby Wambach
Hey, hey, hey. That's right. Okay, so just a couple now.
- [30:38]
Tobin Heath
Nothing crazy.
- [30:39]
Kristen Press
I had some good advice.
- [30:41]
Abby Wambach
Kristen. Now describe her as a non soccer player, human.
- [30:46]
Tobin Heath
Oh, well, it's pretty much the same art. Oh. Except for the opposite. Is her alter ego Tobin her most aggressive, evil self? I mean, maybe that's there in her real life, but I don't think so. I think she really uses sport to get all that negative juju.
- [31:06]
Abby Wambach
Maybe that's the shadow side.
- [31:08]
Tobin Heath
Oh, maybe she is living in her shadow side.
- [31:11]
Glennon Doyle
Wait, is plot twist is Tobin the evil soccer player?
- [31:17]
Kristen Press
I'm also a Gemini, so there's two sides of. Yeah, I know.
- [31:23]
Glennon Doyle
Also, I would like to say, as someone who has watched Tobin play, her feet dance around as if unattached to her legs. Yeah. It's like things are happening that. It's like trickster. Things are happening with her feet that are crazy. Right?
- [31:42]
Abby Wambach
It's very true.
- [31:43]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah.
- [31:44]
Abby Wambach
I never wanted to be close to either one of you guys playing because Tobin would just like, Meg, you. And you're like, yeah, just for fun.
- [31:51]
Glennon Doyle
Because of evil Tobin. Okay, maybe it was Tobin. So, Tobin, can you describe Kristen as a soccer player?
- [31:59]
Tobin Heath
Goal scorer.
- [32:02]
Kristen Press
Driven, singularly focused, Exceptional, crazy, like, specific, excellent, just excellence. Why does it look so painful because it is.
- [32:25]
Glennon Doyle
Fast. What is different about Kristin as a human being than as a soccer player?
- [32:34]
Kristen Press
She is all those things. As a human, I would say excellence, like, stands out as like just being like a through line. And then I would say as a human, she has such a wide aperture for people.
- [32:51]
Abby Wambach
Like, that is cool.
- [32:53]
Kristen Press
From a social perspective, it's probably the. I'd say the place that I've learned the most from her is in her empathy and her compassion for others. I don't really have much of that.
- [33:06]
Glennon Doyle
Is that true? Do you have strong boundaries with other people? What do you mean by that?
- [33:11]
Kristen Press
I think it was just learnings, right? I don't think I had been exposed to some of the learnings that Kristen had and through different lenses. And honestly, it wasn't really a part of myself that like, showed a lot of curiosity. I always like, wanted to like, put good into the world, but I never knew from like a social aspect, like, what that really meant. You know, I'm like, oh, like people just enjoy watching me play football. That's. That's fun and joyful. But I've really understood.
- [33:44]
Tobin Heath
A bit more.
- [33:44]
Kristen Press
About other people, which is always helpful.
- [33:50]
Abby Wambach
Kristen, this excellence piece that like kind of lives on both sides of you, both as a soccer player and as like a non soccer player human, where does that live inside of you? What function is it? Is it for you? Like, what, What? Why?
- [34:06]
Glennon Doyle
It's because she's. I'm a three.
- [34:08]
Tobin Heath
Yeah, I'm a three. So this is like, oh, this is my whole revolution of 2023 was, you know, so the enneagram's like trauma based, right? So I was like, trying to understand why I am the way I am. I understand what, how A3 manifests that. But it's simply like the idea of wanting validation from the people that are most important to you. So it's actually like kind of like a middle range. It's not like I need the whole world to say I'm the best. I really specifically needed my parents to be proud of me when I was a kid. And they also had a very broken relationship. And I was four years old saying, well, when I score goals, they're very happy. And so it's kind of a simple story of every athlete, right? Like chasing something that's unattainable. I kept scoring goals. They were still not happier at the day's end. It was so fleeting. And like my entire drive for soccer to this day, like, I wonder, why do I do this still? Because I feel like my love was of being successful, and my need was to be successful. And when I try new things and I'm good at them, I say, oh, I like that thing. And when I try something and I'm not good at it, I don't like that thing. But it's like, I've never learned to actually assess the activity. I can only assess how good I am at it. So now I'm in a place in my life where I'm like, oh, my gosh, who am I? What do I like? I have no idea. I have no idea. Like, if I didn't play soccer, if I didn't just keep doing what I was doing, running my business, and someone was like, kristen, what would you like to do? I have no idea.
- [35:52]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, I get that.
- [35:53]
Tobin Heath
That's scary.
- [35:55]
Glennon Doyle
So, like, if you have a day where you have nothing to do, first of all, does that. Do you even allow a world in which that. No, that's not.
- [36:02]
Tobin Heath
I don't like that. A whole day. No.
- [36:07]
Glennon Doyle
If you have a full time, even.
- [36:08]
Kristen Press
Us be scheduled, like, do nothing.
- [36:10]
Glennon Doyle
Okay, so that's in your calendar. Toba, you can do.
- [36:12]
Abby Wambach
You can do a day, right? You're a seven. You can chill and give me a month. Yeah, me too.
- [36:17]
Glennon Doyle
Jeez. Does that cause any tension?
- [36:23]
Kristen Press
No, I would say, like, our. I think maybe it's because, like, I'm, like, kind of, like, along for the ride, and I. I make for, like, a really fun kind of, like, partner on the ride.
- [36:33]
Abby Wambach
Yeah, me too.
- [36:34]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah. Yeah.
- [36:35]
Abby Wambach
I'm good at that shit.
- [36:35]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah.
- [36:36]
Amanda Doyle
What do you want to do?
- [36:37]
Abby Wambach
I'm ready to go. Like, I'm ready to do whatever she.
- [36:39]
Kristen Press
Like, wants to do the most epic shit ever. So it's like, dang, I chose, like, the right train to get on, you know? Like, it's so amazing. Like, yeah, it's so amazing. I'm like. I think she's so cool.
- [36:54]
Glennon Doyle
Kristin, this is a thing, though, because, God, it's so interesting thinking about sacred things that are not for other people, that are not for success, that are not for monetizing, and then trying to find something for yourself that is not any of those things. Like, do you have those things personally, anything that is like, I'm not.
- [37:18]
Tobin Heath
So when I think about this, and honestly, when I'm, like, talking about this to my therapist, the only example I have is Tobin. Honestly, the only, like, the only example I have for something that I know I like that I chose, that is, like, innate in me and is Tobin. I can't think of a single other example. Oh, and maybe like a dog. Like my parents dogs, like, they like me for me, you know what I mean? Not for, like, what I do, but there's nothing else. And I used to have. Well, very recently, I would go around saying, like, I'm going to be a farmer. Like, I'm going to quit my job, grow up my hair, never cut it, never put on shoes, put on a big hat and work on the farm. Like, this was my dream. I was like, I figured it all out. I'm going to be really happy. And my little sister who works on farms said to me, she was like, you would hate that. And I was like, oh, she's so mad. Like, because I'm going to do something that. She was, no, she was right. My personality type doesn't make for a great farmer.
- [38:28]
Glennon Doyle
Like, the idea of being a farmer, you just want to press a button and have a different somebody to tell you what to do and then have that vibe. But really, you just need, like, a new free people hat. That's a farmer's hat. You know, like, it's not. We had that dream for a month. We were going to have a home, homestead on a ranch. We were going to call it the Homo. We had it all named.
- [38:47]
Abby Wambach
It's still my dream. Like, this is. This is still my dream.
- [38:49]
Glennon Doyle
We were going to have Highland cows, I think.
- [38:52]
Abby Wambach
Have you seen pictures of Highland cows?
- [38:54]
Glennon Doyle
We'll talk about them again, okay?
- [38:56]
Abby Wambach
Just Google May. It may bring back the dream of wanting to have a farm. Here's the thing. It's got to be so hard for you, Kristen, because the same with our sister Amanda. You probably excel and are exceptional at almost everything you do try. And so when you are associating being good at something with liking it, it must be very confusing because all of these adventures and things you take on, you're like, oh, yeah, I figured it out. Like, you're super smart. You have a lot of agency. You can get shit done. And so it seems like you have all of this to look at and be like, look at what I've loved. And you're like, actually, I don't know if I like any of it.
- [39:35]
Glennon Doyle
Wow.
- [39:36]
Tobin Heath
Yeah. And it's actually dangerous. Like, I don't have a belief that, like, talent is real. I, like, believe that I can do everything. I just believe that because I'm like, look, if I could make it to the U.S. women's National Team as a soccer player, I literally can do anything because I didn't have a lot of things going in that direction. And so it Makes it so I have no discernment. Right. And, like, is that not the most important thing? To be able to know when to say no or know what you like and what you don't like? And, like, just gives you so much direction to move through things. And then I think what happens is I get caught. And I've been talking a lot with this about this with you is, like, I get caught just doing what I'm doing because I can't find the thing inside me that says, like, this is what you actually want.
- [40:32]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [40:33]
Glennon Doyle
I mean, look, that's three things.
- [40:34]
Abby Wambach
I think a lot of our lives, though, we've been stunted a little bit because it's been so soccer focused that, like, you're now kind of nearing. I don't mean to know exactly when you're gonna retire, but you're getting closer to the end than you were when you started. And, like, your brain is starting to, like, shift into maybe what's gonna happen next. And so you're. You're building something. Whether you like it or not. You do have to open your aperture up for ideas and possibilities for, like, the next step and the next phase of your life. Because we didn't have the opportunity. We just had, like, little blinders on. Only focus on one thing. When I retired, I did not know how to be a person. I did not know how to make a calendar, a schedule for myself.
- [41:19]
Glennon Doyle
I didn't. Like, I had to teach her how to use calendar.
- [41:21]
Abby Wambach
Like, actually, I didn't know. I was like, somebody's not gonna send me a daily, like, schedule. No. I have to figure out how to do that. So I know that it might feel daunting, but this is the process you will be on for probably the next five to ten years, however long. It is like, it is just the process you are going through. And every player who has stepped away from. From playing at some point, whether it's been injury or retirement, whether they want to go through it like you are, or some players choose not to actually try to figure it out, you're just a seeker, too.
- [41:58]
Glennon Doyle
Like, here's the thing about seekers. Okay? God help us if we find anything.
- [42:03]
Kristen Press
Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
- [42:06]
Glennon Doyle
We cannot. We cannot be a farmer. The second we go be a farmer, we are going to be like, I belong in the city.
- [42:12]
Tobin Heath
They have to gesture.
- [42:14]
Glennon Doyle
Like, as long as we keep seeking, we're fine. But we are cult susceptible. We are moving susceptible. We are like, if we find anybody that we think has the answer, we think someone has the Answers, Kristen, you think somebody has the answers and that you're going to find it. But the thing is, is that your answer is that you are the most beautiful seeker. Like, we just need to hear you think out loud forever. Yeah, somehow I agree. Somehow we just need to hear you think out loud. What is your conflict styles, and what was your last argument about?
- [42:48]
Tobin Heath
See, I should have known this question was coming.
- [42:50]
Kristen Press
Shoot. Last argument.
- [42:54]
Tobin Heath
Okay. Oh, complex styles. I would say angry.
- [42:59]
Glennon Doyle
Angry, angry, angry.
- [43:00]
Kristen Press
Fire. Fire.
- [43:01]
Tobin Heath
Fire. Fire.
- [43:02]
Glennon Doyle
Oh, that's fire.
- [43:03]
Kristen Press
Fire. Bonfire.
- [43:06]
Glennon Doyle
That's cool.
- [43:07]
Kristen Press
Kristin has to, like, talk it out. She needs to talk it out, and I'd rather just be like, let's just give it 10 minutes before he dies. It's fine.
- [43:15]
Glennon Doyle
Avoidance.
- [43:16]
Kristen Press
I don't really take anything too serious. I think that's the problem.
- [43:19]
Tobin Heath
Unless you're very angry. Oh, we can't give them, like. We can't give them the pretend version that you're just, like, cool.
- [43:27]
Kristen Press
Yeah, but I'm always just. No, no. Chill. No chill when I'm angry.
- [43:33]
Tobin Heath
No. Yeah, She's. I would say Tobin is like. Like I said, she's so easygoing. Chill. Easy to be around, gets along with everyone. Like, I would just describe her whole life as ease. And then she does hit a point where, like, she cannot stand me. Like, I'll be like, look at me. It's still me.
- [43:54]
Glennon Doyle
Look at me.
- [43:55]
Tobin Heath
She's like, I don't see you, and I don't like you.
- [44:01]
Glennon Doyle
Interesting.
- [44:02]
Tobin Heath
And I'm a little. I would say I'm more quick to anger. Like, I'm irritable and I'll bark.
- [44:10]
Abby Wambach
That's right. That's good. That's. I think that that's really.
- [44:13]
Glennon Doyle
I do, too. It must be good to have two fires, because then you don't worry. One person's not, like, getting their stuff out at all.
- [44:19]
Kristen Press
I. I didn't grow up in a house of yelling at all. Like, I never once saw my parents yell. And I took yelling to be a sign of, like, oh, no, this is bad. Like, this is bad for us.
- [44:29]
Abby Wambach
Me, too.
- [44:32]
Kristen Press
Well, like, yelling. Yeah. No, I'm. I'm thankful for that. But I also like it. We, like, clean house, like, all the time. We just let it burn, you know, it's like, there's nothing like that. We're. There's no, like, rug that has something under it that. That is going on. Like, we put it all out in the open and it burns, and then do a little sage dance or whatever. Palo Santo, and we're right back to work.
- [44:57]
Glennon Doyle
So you recover quickly.
- [44:59]
Kristen Press
Oh, yeah.
- [45:01]
Tobin Heath
And Tobin will swear she doesn't even remember that it happened.
- [45:05]
Glennon Doyle
Oh, really?
- [45:06]
Tobin Heath
I'll be like, oh, you remember when we got in this blowout fight when we were doing.
- [45:09]
Glennon Doyle
She'll be like, no little dissociation there.
- [45:13]
Tobin Heath
Very interesting shadow side in the past, you see.
- [45:16]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah. Know. Think twice, Kristen, before you encourage Tobin to go into therapy for the shadow side. I'm just saying there's something legit about keeping your partner on the happy side.
- [45:27]
Kristen Press
I keep telling her this.
- [45:30]
Abby Wambach
The only thing that I would say, Tobin, is I didn't know how much I was suffering without saying it. So, like, now I'll like something as little as missing a turn while driving. For whatever reason. I've not expressed an anger feeling or a sadness feeling for probably three weeks. Okay. And then I miss a turn. I've made a mistake. And I'm like, God fucking damn it.
- [45:57]
Glennon Doyle
I mean, Tobit.
- [45:58]
Tobin Heath
She like, I'm an idiot. I'm so stupid. I'm the.
- [46:02]
Glennon Doyle
But we're like.
- [46:03]
Abby Wambach
And everybody in the car is like, what the hell? And so. And so now I'll let some of my. Like. Cause it's still me. I'm not an angry person either. And I'm like, oh, man, that was silly. I like, say stuff now that it's like a pressure thing. Like, I release every once in a while so that I don't ever blow.
- [46:26]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, yeah. So it's been helpful. And then the thing we've been working on recently is that, unfortunately, as Abby has started to express her feelings more to me.
- [46:37]
Abby Wambach
Oh, God.
- [46:39]
Glennon Doyle
She will be like, just last week, I was being terrible. Okay. Our general fight is, am I irritable or are you irritating? That's it. That's our whole fight. That's it. She told me that I had hurt her feelings, and I had, and I knew I had. And she sat me down and she said it very seriously and very, very sincerely, and I burst out laughing.
- [47:03]
Kristen Press
Oh, my gosh. That happened to me one time, too. Literally, to Kristen. I was like, I'm trying to be open and say how I'm feeling. And she literally laughed. And I was like, isn't this supposed to work? I'm like, isn't this what you want? I'm like, I remember this. This happened a long time ago, and it probably only happened once, which is why I remember. But I was like, guess I'm not doing it right.
- [47:23]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [47:24]
Glennon Doyle
Guess I'm not.
- [47:25]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [47:27]
Abby Wambach
It's a vulnerability. I've crossed over into this no go zone for Glennon And I'm just. Like. I said. I was like. That really, really hurt my feelings. And I just want to tell you that. And she just. She gets this face and she goes.
- [47:42]
Glennon Doyle
And then you guys. It's the thing, right? What the fuck? Now I know I can't do it because we've talked about it so many times. So now it's over. It's like when you start laughing at a funeral. It's happening. It's coming, you know. You know the thing that went on that was like your Roman Empire, it was like all over the Internet for a while. Like, what do you guys think about all the time? I want to know this from you, too. When you're not being forced to think about something in particular for work or. What are you thinking about the most?
- [48:25]
Tobin Heath
Well, I did not get the Roman Empire.
- [48:27]
Kristen Press
Me either, but I.
- [48:28]
Tobin Heath
You don't know what happens on the Internet, unfortunately.
- [48:31]
Kristen Press
Okay.
- [48:31]
Abby Wambach
So there was like this thing going around that wives were asking their husbands, how often do you think about the Roman Empire? And they were like, every day.
- [48:40]
Glennon Doyle
Like, men reacting like, this is new. Yeah.
- [48:44]
Kristen Press
No, I've never heard this.
- [48:45]
Abby Wambach
And it was like, shocking to women everywhere. Like, what?
- [48:49]
Glennon Doyle
And there's a lot of, like, underneath that. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine there's a lot underneath.
- [48:54]
Tobin Heath
Okay. What do you.
- [48:54]
Glennon Doyle
How things are organized?
- [48:56]
Tobin Heath
Oh, no.
- [48:57]
Kristen Press
I can't be pinned down to one thing.
- [48:59]
Amanda Doyle
Well, no.
- [49:00]
Tobin Heath
Yeah, tell them about the walks through the forests and stuff.
- [49:02]
Kristen Press
Oh, yeah. So, like, I obsessed with my mind. I don't know if people say that, but not because I'm like, thinking, like, I'm like, so smart or so whatever. But it's because I love my imagination and I can do anything in my mind. Right. So anything that, like, I can't do, like, in this physical world, I can do in my mind. And a lot of times, like, I'll go for a walk. So I know some people become restless if they can't sleep or something. And I'll just go to my favorite place in my mind and I'll just walk around and it's. Yeah, I. I think that's probably where I call it my mind palace. And that's where I would go. Like, I go to different, like, rooms and, like, hang out and walk around. In my mind.
- [49:45]
Glennon Doyle
You have a palace that's built and it's like, the same one.
- [49:48]
Tobin Heath
Yeah.
- [49:49]
Kristen Press
And it's like. It's infinite.
- [49:52]
Abby Wambach
That's cool.
- [49:53]
Glennon Doyle
That is so cool. That's like happy creative dissociation.
- [49:58]
Abby Wambach
You do it too. It's just you never Called it a palace.
- [50:01]
Glennon Doyle
Oh, it's so cool. I think that's magical. I think that's magical. That's so wonderful.
- [50:06]
Tobin Heath
And it's like. That's what she does. Like, when she would be like, oh, I can't sleep. I'm, like, anxious, and she's like, forget that I'm going to the Heath in London. And she just walks around, and she literally goes there. I think it's so cool. I just am a little jealous. Cause I just, like, can't sleep and have anxiety.
- [50:26]
Glennon Doyle
Right? You're in the anxiety palace.
- [50:28]
Tobin Heath
Yeah, I have a palace, too.
- [50:30]
Kristen Press
Okay.
- [50:30]
Glennon Doyle
I'm a palace, too. It's more like a haunted house.
- [50:35]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [50:36]
Kristen Press
It's when you turn on. We can do hard things in the middle of the night.
- [50:41]
Tobin Heath
I do. You do?
- [50:41]
Kristen Press
What do you.
- [50:42]
Glennon Doyle
What's important about it to you? Why do you listen to it? Why is it important to you, this podcast?
- [50:48]
Tobin Heath
I think because it's real and it's honest. And I think all of the topics are, like, aligned with the things that I care about, bringing in, like, the best experts in the world to, like, talk from their heart rather than, like, from their books. And I think you all do an amazing job of going beyond what's comfortable to do publicly, really. And actually, it's really hard for Tobin. I, like, will play it in the.
- [51:16]
Kristen Press
House, and she, oh, I can't listen to it.
- [51:18]
Tobin Heath
Can't listen to it.
- [51:19]
Kristen Press
No offense. I love you both, but it's because I'm a seven. So when you guys are talking about feelings and all that, I'm like, why would anybody. I've actually not listened to any pod squads, like, on my own. Except for Kristen's when she was on, wasn't it. So that's actually the only one she hasn't listened to. So we have 100% participation in the pod squad. And she did play the. She'll do. This is really sweet of her. Is that she'll actually be like, oh, you'll like this five minutes. And she'll play, like, five minutes of we can do hard things for me on particular subjects that she knows that I will enjoy.
- [52:05]
Tobin Heath
That won't be too scary.
- [52:06]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, I love that there won't be.
- [52:09]
Tobin Heath
Anybody dealing with any problem.
- [52:10]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, I'm always.
- [52:12]
Kristen Press
I'm always like, can you please put.
- [52:13]
Glennon Doyle
Your headphones in, Tobin? I understand that I do that with music. I listen to talk a lot. I'll listen to some news from some shit on the radio. Because music does that to me. Like, it makes me too achy.
- [52:27]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. I Turn on Adele like, Sarah McLachlan, and she's like, let it body Vetter.
- [52:32]
Glennon Doyle
There's certain people like Stevie Nicks, like, I can't. Their voices make me want to crack open, and I am like, you have to warn me. I can't.
- [52:40]
Tobin Heath
Oh, I am all in for any form of entertainment that will crack me open. Like, all the people you just named. That's, like, exactly my music genre. I like sad shows. I love to cry watching tv. I just want it all same. That's why I'm a very proud pod squatter. I'm like, tell me all your problems, and I just will cry right with you. And it feels so good.
- [53:03]
Kristen Press
You guys are doing amazing.
- [53:05]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah.
- [53:06]
Kristen Press
Like, it's really incredible. I. I don't know if people tell you that. I'm sure people tell you that, like, a thousand times a day, but we're going to tell you it. We really appreciate everything that you brought into our lives.
- [53:18]
Abby Wambach
Like I said earlier on. And you said it too, Tobin, I really hitched myself to the correct ride.
- [53:24]
Glennon Doyle
Oh, please. You need to know that one of my favorite things to do during the World cup was to watch your show.
- [53:33]
Amanda Doyle
And then the recap show.
- [53:34]
Glennon Doyle
The recap show, which is so good. I texted Kristen about this, but then I would try to memorize the things that you'd say, and then I would sit down at dinner and just say the things, and I would say all your words, and I would say the lingo, and I would say the defenders and all the things. And she'd be like, what the.
- [53:56]
Abby Wambach
Listen, I love that.
- [53:58]
Glennon Doyle
It was, like, three days in until I was like, I think.
- [54:00]
Kristen Press
Yeah, I think a lot of people.
- [54:02]
Glennon Doyle
Actually are doing that did that.
- [54:04]
Kristen Press
Because, you know, what we found in there was a big mission, and there were kind of, like, mini missions in doing this. Right. And where we found it to be just incredible was when all of a sudden our voices started, like, leading the conversation. And I think where Abby can understand a little bit more than you, Glennon, but maybe you can. When you're, like, in a world championship or just a professional, you hear other people talking about the thing that you're doing, and there's kind of this, like, disassociation with it. Like, those people have no idea what they're talking about, but it's. You kind of just accept it, you know? And it was really powerful to bring in the actual voices and perspectives of the people that were doing the thing and being able to actually bring in our culture, which I think is missing in when we speak about the thing. And when we got to lead conversation and there were some like, hard conversations within that World cup as, as you know, and I was really, really proud. And it really like affected kind of my mission as a whole, where I was like, this is actually really important.
- [55:13]
Glennon Doyle
Really important. I remember waking up and thinking, let's see what they say about this.
- [55:19]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [55:19]
Glennon Doyle
I was like, let's just. Before we decide what to think, let's just check in.
- [55:24]
Abby Wambach
Well, what was cool about you guys? You know, the commentators who are are talking at halftime, it is their job and they are getting paid. And a lot of them are all former athletes. And so they are competitive as fuck. So they want to be the best at what they're doing. And they all know in order to get re upped for their contract, they gotta say some shit. And so it is not as it appears. They are not always speaking truth. They are speaking their perception of the truth. So that clickbait, so that it can get clickbait and all that, you guys brought a totally different perspective of not only having the ability inside of it, but also it felt like you guys were able to draw back a little bit, which I found so important. And I think it is a lost art, or maybe never has been an art in the commentating world. There's so many things that are going on and so many complications. And of course we're all fans, but nobody like the commentators. They gotta ask a question, they gotta respond in the moment. And I'm not excusing them, they're just doing their job. And I just thought it was really awesome what you two did. And we definitely waited. Cause I was like, I just can't wait because I wanted to just get online and just be like, shut up. You know?
- [56:46]
Kristen Press
But it's like everyone thinks that that's the truth, right? There's three people that are talking about this like huge thing that's happening. And for most people, they're not super educated in what's actually happening. So then they're just through that lens, they're just saying those things.
- [57:02]
Tobin Heath
Yeah. I feel like I had a really interesting experience because I'm not a sports fan. So I literally never hear anyone talk about sports. I don't watch any sports at all on television. Like, then why in the world did I think I should talk about sports? I don't know. I was brought on last minute to this show, but part of it was, I think that the sports world that I grew up watching, I didn't think it was built for me. And so it felt really important every single time Tobin was doing the creative for the show, that I would tie it to something that I cared about, which I think just made it more generalizable. And I think, like, a lot of women have felt that the sports house isn't built for them. So just us having our two different personalities allowed us to be able to speak differently to different people, and I think that was really important.
- [57:57]
Kristen Press
Yeah.
- [57:58]
Glennon Doyle
It feels like listening to the commentators on the tv, that there is nothing sacred about it to them, that it's all monetized. It's all. I will say the thing that's the most inflammatory. So that I. And with you two, it is clear that soccer is sacred to you. And it's so interesting and true. But there's something so which just. You just trust you so much. Are you going to do the Olympics, too? Are you going to keep doing.
- [58:24]
Tobin Heath
Oh, yeah.
- [58:25]
Glennon Doyle
Okay.
- [58:25]
Tobin Heath
Cheer about the next iterations.
- [58:28]
Kristen Press
Yeah. We have big plans for 2024, but really kind of franchising what the recap show is and bringing it to different temple movements and different sports and competitions, because part of the mission was to never take a spotlight off what women's sports are and to try to lead kind of conversation of what, like, content creation can look like for women's sports.
- [58:52]
Glennon Doyle
So, like, you'll do your show, but with different sports.
- [58:55]
Abby Wambach
Yeah, yeah.
- [58:57]
Glennon Doyle
All the.
- [58:57]
Tobin Heath
And different people.
- [58:58]
Kristen Press
And different people.
- [58:59]
Glennon Doyle
And different people.
- [59:00]
Tobin Heath
Soccer is as far as I go.
- [59:02]
Glennon Doyle
Okay. Okay. So they're going to call in other people.
- [59:05]
Abby Wambach
Hold on a second.
- [59:06]
Kristen Press
All people. Kristen could probably transition to other sports.
- [59:09]
Abby Wambach
Yes.
- [59:09]
Glennon Doyle
No, but let's not do that to her, because then she'll be. Have to become the best at it, and then she'll be so tired.
- [59:14]
Abby Wambach
No, listen, I. I think what you said earlier, though, Kristen is really important, and it's something that when I'm watching the sports now with Glennon, it's important for me to know that her perspective and the way that she's experiencing it is totally different than mine. And there's 50%, probably more of the people who are watching whatever sport you're watching, especially women's sports that are watching it in your way. So, like, don't count yourself out, because who wouldn't want to listen to Glennon Doyle commentate on a soccer game right now?
- [59:45]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, a lot of people wouldn't.
- [59:47]
Abby Wambach
I wouldn't.
- [59:47]
Kristen Press
I would actually.
- [59:48]
Tobin Heath
Oh, for sure.
- [59:49]
Abby Wambach
It's hilarious.
- [59:50]
Tobin Heath
I mean, Glennon, you taught me what offside was.
- [59:54]
Kristen Press
This is a link up. Always has been.
- [59:58]
Glennon Doyle
Oh, I. I would die For Kristen Kress, there's no. It's always been this way. This is how from the very beginning. I knew from the first time I saw her running around down the field.
- [60:06]
Kristen Press
While you're, you know, Glenn, because you.
- [60:09]
Glennon Doyle
Can tell when she's playing. Before I knew who she was, before I knew I could tell on the field, she's spirit spice. She's just. There's something about. Your feet are flailing about, and she's floating along like a graceful swan. And then, bam. I knew from the beginning.
- [60:25]
Kristen Press
Yeah.
- [60:26]
Glennon Doyle
Please allow us to come alongside you with all of these ventures. We believe so much in what you're doing. This Pod Squad is full of. Just tell us what you're doing. Let us know all the things, because we want to support everything you do. We just think it's so important. And we adore you, too.
- [60:46]
Tobin Heath
Well, thank you. So sweet.
- [60:47]
Glennon Doyle
Thank you for this hour.
- [60:48]
Tobin Heath
I'm so happy to hang. What a joy.
- [60:51]
Abby Wambach
Thank you for this.
- [60:51]
Kristen Press
Double dates aren't that bad.
- [60:53]
Glennon Doyle
All right. Tobin has now experienced her first Weekend to Hard Things episode besides Kristen. In short, was she not amazing on that episode that you listened to?
- [61:03]
Abby Wambach
I've listened to that episode five times. It's.
- [61:05]
Glennon Doyle
It fixed people. It fixed. It healed people.
- [61:09]
Kristen Press
Yeah. That's when I feel like she kind of transcends. I don't even know if she knew what she was saying, you know?
- [61:15]
Glennon Doyle
Oh, my God.
- [61:16]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [61:17]
Abby Wambach
I cried during the episode. It, like, helped heal my fear of death. Like, you just. Yeah, you changed. You changed my life for sure.
- [61:24]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah.
- [61:25]
Tobin Heath
Thank you.
- [61:25]
Glennon Doyle
We love you both. Pod Squad, we will see you here next time.
- [61:30]
Tobin Heath
Television. Amanda, I said hi.
- [61:32]
Abby Wambach
I will do it.
- [61:37]
Glennon Doyle
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the POD helps you because you'll never miss an episode. And it helps us because you'll never miss an episode episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner and Bill Schultz.