Podcast Summary: "We Can Do Hard Things"

Episode: Couples Therapy: The Tools You Need with Dr. Orna Guralnik (Best Of)
Release Date: April 6, 2025
Hosts: Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, Amanda Doyle
Guest: Dr. Orna Guralnik
Source: Audacy

Overview

In this compelling episode of We Can Do Hard Things, hosts Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle welcome Dr. Orna Guralnik, a renowned psychoanalyst and writer. Drawing from her extensive experience on the Showtime docu-series Couples Therapy, Dr. Guralnik offers deep insights into navigating the complexities of intimate relationships. The conversation delves into the concept of "otherness," the underlying fears that challenge couple dynamics, the role of splitting as a defense mechanism, and practical tools for fostering healthier connections.

Introduction to Dr. Orna Guralnik

Amanda Doyle introduces Dr. Guralnik, highlighting her impressive credentials and contributions to psychoanalysis and cultural studies. The hosts express admiration for Dr. Guralnik's work, particularly her ability to portray authentic relationship struggles and resolutions on Couples Therapy.

Notable Quote:
"We're all fussy as hell." — Amanda Doyle ([05:23])

Embracing Otherness in Relationships

Dr. Guralnik emphasizes that "otherness" is an intrinsic part of any relationship. Instead of seeking to dissolve differences, couples are encouraged to negotiate and embrace them, viewing these differences as opportunities for growth.

Notable Quote:
"Otherness is like the thorn that will make you grow, that will make you heal and go beyond yourself." — Dr. Orna Guralnik ([06:45])

The Fear Behind Otherness

The discussion shifts to the fears that underlie challenges related to otherness. Dr. Guralnik explains that inherent fears, such as abandonment or power dynamics, often exacerbate conflicts between partners.

Notable Quote:
"What is the existential fear that otherness brings up? Because you know that underlies, like racism, it underlines, underlies homophobia. Every kind of difference obviously can." — Dr. Orna Guralnik ([12:05])

The Role of Splitting in Relationships

A significant part of the conversation explores the concept of splitting, a defense mechanism where individuals categorize situations and people in extremes to manage internal conflicts. This avoidance of nuance can hinder relationship growth and understanding.

Notable Quote:
"All that has to do with vulnerability. Need has been split and kind of dumped into the feminine. So there's just so much shame around that." — Dr. Orna Guralnik ([47:50])

Addressing Gender Dynamics and Patriarchy

Dr. Guralnik discusses how societal structures like patriarchy influence both men and women in relationships. She highlights the confusion men face when traditional masculine roles are disrupted, leading to passivity or identity crises.

Notable Quote:
"Society is no longer asking of men simply to be a breadwinner or simply to be dominant and clueless about anything else." — Dr. Orna Guralnik ([26:46])

Paradoxical Interventions in Couples Therapy

Introducing therapeutic techniques, Dr. Guralnik explains paradoxical interventions—strategies where couples are instructed to do the opposite of their habitual responses to break dysfunctional patterns.

Example:
In a couple where one partner is hyper-functional and the other seeks relaxation, encouraging the hyper-functional partner to take time off can lead to unexpected positive changes.

Notable Quote:
"A paradoxical intervention is when you instruct a person to do exactly the opposite of what you ultimately think is going to happen." — Dr. Orna Guralnik ([24:52])

Listener Questions and Expert Insights

The episode features real listener questions, with Dr. Guralnik providing nuanced advice:

1. Want vs. Need in Relationships ([40:01])

Question: How to differentiate between wants and needs, and how unmet desires affect the relationship.
Insight: Dr. Guralnik advises viewing wants and needs intersubjectively, understanding them within the unique context of each relationship rather than labeling them as inherently legitimate or not.

Notable Quote:
"It's about finding someone who truly understands your journey and is dedicated to helping you make progress." — Dr. Orna Guralnik ([47:11])

2. Feeling Lost in a Relationship ([58:01])

Question: Signs of losing oneself in a relationship and how to regain personal identity.
Insight: Emphasizes personal introspection and addressing internal feelings rather than projecting issues onto the partner.

Notable Quote:
"Sounds like this person is already doing a lot of the work. And that's a good example of what it means to try not to get lost in a relationship." — Dr. Orna Guralnik ([60:25])

3. Sleeping Habits Conflicts ([62:12])

Question: Navigating differing sleeping habits and the expectations around co-sleeping.
Insight: Encourages exploring underlying fears and vulnerabilities associated with vulnerability and suggests open communication about individual needs.

Notable Quote:
"What is the unconscious telling you about what could happen to you if you let loose and fall asleep in the presence of another person?" — Dr. Orna Guralnik ([62:21])

The Next Right Thing: Embracing Otherness

As the episode concludes, Amanda Doyle introduces the "Next Right Thing" segment, offering actionable advice for listeners:

Actionable Step:
Challenge yourself to think of the aspect of your partner that disturbs you the most and imagine it as a catalyst for your personal and relational growth.

Notable Quote:
"Operationalize otherness and consider other people's annoyances as the thorn from which our growth will come." — Amanda Doyle ([65:13])

Conclusion

This episode of We Can Do Hard Things provides profound insights into the dynamics of intimate relationships. Dr. Orna Guralnik's expertise illuminates the challenges couples face when dealing with differences and fears, offering practical tools and therapeutic techniques to foster healthier, more understanding connections. By embracing otherness and addressing underlying fears, couples can transform their relationships into spaces of mutual growth and resilience.

Notable Quotes:

• "Otherness is like the thorn that will make you grow, that will make you heal and go beyond yourself." — Dr. Orna Guralnik ([06:45])
• "Any kind of splitting ultimately empties you out. Women suffer, too. Not only do they suffer the oppression of patriarchy, but they suffer of having to split themselves off of all the goods that the whatever we want to imagine as masculinity is." — Dr. Orna Guralnik ([18:53])
• "A paradoxical intervention is when you instruct a person to do exactly the opposite of what you ultimately think is going to happen." — Dr. Orna Guralnik ([24:52])
• "Climbing the mountain of embracing otherness begins with acknowledging and valuing differences as growth opportunities." — Amanda Doyle ([65:44])

This summary encapsulates the key discussions, insights, and practical advice offered in the episode, providing a comprehensive overview for those who haven't listened.