Get Free from Perfectionism | Live on Tour

Summary

Podcast Summary: We Can Do Hard Things – "Get Free from Perfectionism | Live on Tour" (August 21, 2025)

Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and candid live episode from Minneapolis, the final stop of the We Can Do Hard Things tour, hosts Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle (Sissy) gather with their audience to explore the struggle of perfectionism, parenting, family boundaries, the pain of being human, and the messy magic of making life up as they go. The episode features honest Q&A exchanges with audience members, reflections on handling feedback and setting boundaries, and a surprise on-stage vow renewal between Glennon and Abby, all wrapped in a deeply supportive, humorous, and vulnerable atmosphere.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Myth of Knowing What You’re Doing — Parenting & Life

• Parenting’s Reality (05:20)
  • Abby: “Nobody knows what they’re doing. You’re gonna make it up for you, and you’re gonna find things that work. You’re gonna find things that don’t work. ... That’s parenting in a nutshell.”
• Being Broken by What You Love (06:25)
  • Sissy: “Expect your child to absolutely break you ... but break you in the way that is most painful for you because it is the way you need to be broken.”
  • Glennon: “The end. But go with God.”

2. Perfectionism & Internal Family Systems

• Understanding the Root of Perfectionism (10:04)
  • Sissy encourages curiosity over self-shame. “Every single part of ourselves is working for us. … It thinks it is working the way that we need it to work.”
• Protective Nature of Perfectionism (12:20–13:23)
  • Sissy: “My perfectionist, I realized, was a protector ... not trying to be perfect, it was trying to protect me from what would happen if I wasn’t perfect.”
• Letting Go (13:40)
  • Glennon on new approaches: “I see you, but we’re not hanging out anymore.”

3. Navigating Feedback and Growth

• Dealing with Criticism Publicly and Privately (19:04)
  • Glennon: “I finally realized that doesn’t matter ... Why don’t I just go do something good and keep doing good things and keep showing up for people ... They just need us to show up and do the right thing.”
• Self-Reflection over External Validation (21:48)
  • Sissy: “That’s right.”
  • Glennon: “The most important feedback is the feedback you give yourself at the end of the day when you look in the mirror.”

4. Family, Boundaries, and the Pain of Change

• Sisterhood and Boundaries (23:32–28:38)
  • Glennon: “It is very hard because ... those core wounds come right to the top every time.”
  • Sissy: “You will lose that relationship if you know in your heart ... you said what you needed, she balked, and you took it back.”
  • Abby: “Grow the spine to be strong enough to stand up and walk out of any fucking room you need to walk out of.”
• After the Boundary Comes the Storm (28:19–29:17)
  • Glennon: “Never in the history of the world has anyone in a family unit said something that was different than what we all agreed on before ... When somebody on stage goes off script and says a new line, everybody else freaks the hell out.”

5. The Anxiety of Growing Older

• Comparison and Milestones in Twenties (31:05–35:38)
  • Audience (Kylie): “All my friends are married and have babies.”
  • Glennon: “They just got FOMO and grabbed the first person that they saw because their friend was getting married.”
  • Abby’s hack: “I choose to only hang out with older people. And so I always feel young.”

6. Self Care and the Futility of Seeking Only Happiness

• Normalizing Hurt and Slowing Down (36:11–39:14)
  • Glennon: “I never stop hurting ... being human isn’t about feeling happy. It’s about feeling everything.”
  • Measure mental health by Zillow time: “If I’m looking for a cabin with no electricity in the middle of the woods ... maybe I just need a minute by myself in my house.”
• Visionaries and Sadness (39:37–40:38)
  • Glennon: “The sadness is the gap between the vision you have inside of yourself about how things should be and the reality of how things are.”

7. Facing Overwhelm & Collective Resistance

• Historical Perspective as Comfort (45:41–48:53)
  • Sissy: “A lot of the overwhelm ... is an intentional strategy ... historically a repeated process.”
  • “Read stories about freedom fighters of the past ... it is horrifying to read and strangely comforting ... this is the human story.”
  • “People rise up to take totalitarian power and then the people either take their place ... or they don’t ... Dictators are gonna dictate, people are gonna people.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• Abby on Parenting:
  “Nobody knows what they’re doing ... making it up as you go along. That’s parenting in a nutshell.” (06:07)
• Sissy on Being Broken Open:
  “Expect your child to absolutely break you, but ... in the way you need to be broken.” (06:25)
• Sissy on Perfectionism’s Purpose:
  “My perfectionist ... was trying to protect me from what would happen if I wasn’t perfect.” (12:20)
• Glennon on Feedback:
  “I realized ... why would I spend one minute arguing with you about whether I’m a good person? Why don’t I just go do something good?” (19:04)
• Glennon on Family Boundaries:
  “Never in the history of the world has anyone in a family unit said something that was different ... and then everyone in the family went, ‘Oh, okay, that sounds good.’ No, no.” (28:38)
• Sissy on Sisterhood’s Intensity:
  “If it was a video game, like, you’d know exactly the place ... that’s what makes it so intimate. And that’s also what makes it ... dangerous.” (27:04)
• Glennon on Pain & Happiness:
  “Being human isn’t about feeling happy. It’s about feeling everything.” (36:37)
• Glennon on Sadness:
  “Visionaries have the biggest sadness, because ... you feel the vision inside of you and you see the reality and there’s such a distance, and that distance is the sadness.” (39:37)
• Sissy on Overwhelm in Activism:
  “A lot of the overwhelm ... is an intentional strategy ... when we’re so flooded like that ... read stories about freedom fighters of the past ... it is the human story.” (45:41–48:53)
• Abby’s Life Hack on Aging:
  “Hang out with older people. And so I always feel young.” (34:35)

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Special Live Moments

• Audience Connections
  • The episode features wide-ranging questions from attendees about parenting, perfectionism, family conflict, aging, and enduring through difficult times.
• Vow Renewal Surprise (51:09–52:44)
  • Abby surprises Glennon by asking her to renew their vows on-stage:
    Abby: “Glennon, will you please renew your vows with me and marry me again?”
    Glennon: “I will.”
    The crowd cheers, providing a heartfelt, awkward, and joyful moment.

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Closure

The episode ends with music by Tish Melton and words of gratitude from the hosts, encapsulating the raw, communal spirit of the tour and the podcast’s central message: We can do hard things — together, imperfectly, and with love.

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For listeners who crave honesty, community, laughter, and the comfort of not having all the answers, this episode delivers connection, insight, and solidarity for anyone walking through the messiness of life.

Transcript

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[Glennon Doyle]

Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. Today we are giving you the finale of our series of live episodes from the road from our We Can Do Hard Things tour. We hope you've enjoyed this little glimpse into the joy and connection we felt being together with you for our 10 city book tour. Being in those rooms with you all during this particular American moment moved me in ways that I am still processing and that are still swirling inside of us as we decide what's next. In today's episode, we sat in those rooms and had huge, thousands of people in these family meetings. That's what we did city by city across the country. In today's episode, during these family meetings, we talked about how to stop hurting or not stop hurting when life just won't let up. Perfectionism and the messy magic of just freaking making it all up as we go along. We're ending this one in Minneapolis. It was Abby and my wedding anniversary. I knew that because my dad texted me that morning to remind me, so. And then I googled it to verify. Oh, my God. It was true. Abby surprised me by asking me to renew our vows on stage in front of thousands of people, knowing how much I love big public displays of affection. Anyway, you'll just have to listen to see how that freaking went. But I was there, supported by you, the Minneapolis Pod squad. And I am told we made it through together. I'm not sure I dissociated with. We hope you enjoy it. Awkward.

[Abby Wambach]

Okay, so this is the part of the event that we take it to the people.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yes. So we want to know if you all have things that you would like.

[Abby Wambach]

Can we bring up the house lights just a touch so you can see each other a little bit? Can you pop out to the aisle and then ask the question from there? Hi, guys.

[Audience Member]

Well, I love you all so much. Obviously, me and my wife are actively right now trying to have a baby.

[Glennon Doyle]

Congratulations.

[Abby Wambach]

Thank you.

[Audience Member]

And you guys helped keep my coming out. I came out right when I found your guys podcast, so thank you. And you're gone. My question is, what is one piece of advice you would give us for us to give our child in parenting?

[Sissy (Sister)]

Your child or what you want your child to know?

[Audience Member]

Whatever you want.

[Glennon Doyle]

I like her. Okay. Do you have anything?

[Abby Wambach]

What we would want our child. Okay. If somebody were to tell me this before I became an insta mom, boom. You have three children. Okay? I was like, I'm gonna do this. I got this. I got gold medals. Like, this is. This is fine. This is the only true thing I really know about parenting. Nobody knows what they're doing. You're gonna make it up for you, and you're gonna find things that work. You're gonna find things that don't work. You're gonna have the baby. The baby is gonna change ages within a day.

[Glennon Doyle]

It's crazy.

[Abby Wambach]

And the baby's gonna hate the thing that they loved yesterday, and it's just, like, making it up. As you go along. That's it. That's parenting in a nutshell.

[Glennon Doyle]

You're. You got anything?

[Sissy (Sister)]

I got some things. I think you should expect your child to absolutely break you.

[Glennon Doyle]

The end. But go with God.

[Sissy (Sister)]

But, like, break you in the way that is most painful for you, because it is the way you need to be broken. Yes, my son totally changed me because I'm like, Type A. This is where we're going to do the thing. Be super respectful and get the good grades. And. No, we weren't. We were not to do that. Not one time. And I think that had my children been reversed, had my daughter been first, I would still be playing the game. Like, I would be like, there's a way to do this, and people act a certain way and bad kids are over here.

[Glennon Doyle]

You know, like, you're like, if you.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Can play the game, it's tempting to play. What I needed to learn is that the game is bullshit. And so what I'm saying is that was real hard for me. And I. Now that I look in the past and look at it, I'm like, thank you. Like, he was the only one that could have done it to me because I love him so much, even though he is so difficult, and. But I had to surrender that. And now I'm like, oh, my God, you're so great. You're insane. And I love you. And I can see you. I can see you for who you are, and I can love you in a way that is utterly detached from all these things that I thought one did to be loved.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yes.

[Tish Melton]

Good luck.

[Abby Wambach]

Yes. Right here in this front row. Yep.

[Audience Member]

Oh, thank you, guys.

[Glennon Doyle]

You're welcome.

[Audience Member]

Okay, so my question hearkens a lot to Amanda's holding things up and putting them down, which makes sense because I identify as an Amanda. Like, sun and Abby kind of moon and fun and rising. Like, it's.

[Glennon Doyle]

I feel like I should give you a hug.

[Abby Wambach]

Please. Okay. Sorry.

[Glennon Doyle]

Oh, God.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh. Love you so much. Put it together. Oh, my gosh. A sun and moon and rising.

[Audience Member]

No, but I'm so serious.

[Abby Wambach]

So serious.

[Audience Member]

A whole chart and everything. Anyway, so I like to think I'm, like, a recovering perfectionist. Right. And going to the why thing as well and not being stuck in the why. What I have been going through for the last couple years in therapy is needing to know what made me such a perfectionist. And what was very abundantly clear right away was that it's not a product of my highly evolved parents, who are amazing. And we're always like, just do your Best, do your best. You go through all these things and I still don't know. And so I'm trying to let go of the why do I want to hold things up? So I'm not even close to the put the things down. I'm like, why do I want to hold them up so badly? So if you have any insights on getting even to the why am I looking upward? That would be so magnificent. Love you all.

[Glennon Doyle]

Well, good job to your mom.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Good job, mom.

[Glennon Doyle]

Good job, mama.

[Sissy (Sister)]

So first, what I would say is the first step is not shaming yourself for that at all. Not saying why in a way of like, why do you do that perfect part? You know, in a way, because. Because what we've all been exploring so much in internal family systems therapy is that like, yeah, ifs to the rescue is that every single part of ourselves is working for us. Like, it has its job and it thinks it is working the way that we need it to work. Like, it's in there just hustling so hard and it doesn't know that we, where we are now don't still need that.

[Glennon Doyle]

Right?

[Sissy (Sister)]

So I don't think it's like anyone's fault. Sometimes it's someone's fault. In your case, clearly not. She's lovely, but I mean, it's more like a curiosity, which clearly you have. But, like, for me at least, it was like my perfectionist part, for example, was everything will go to shit if I don't stay hyper vigilant and try to look out for things that could be bad. My family, the business, whatever. Like, feeling like if I put something down, I was letting everyone down, right? And also feeling like that part that really, at the end of the day, that piece was trying to show that I was worthy of being here in whatever place I was, you know? And so I think it's different for every person. But I think, like, it's so cheesy and I'm like the worst therapist person. Because every time my therapist's like, go to your park and talk to it, I'm like, how?

[Glennon Doyle]

Where?

[Sissy (Sister)]

But like, if you actually, like, get curious, everything is logical. Like, it's not illogical that you have a perfectionist part. It's what is it doing? What was it working toward? What kind of update does it need that? Like, you actually don't need to hustle to be perfect anymore. Like, it needs an update. So I don't know, I just assume best intentions about everything that your crazy little self is doing and then just get curious about it and see if you still need it, doing that other thing because you want to know what my perfectionist part is doing right now? Okay, this is so embarrassing. But my perfectionist, I realized, was a protector. Like, it wasn't trying to be perfect, it was trying to protect me from what would happen if I wasn't perfect. And so what I am doing now is actually like when it comes up, because even with the new thing I'm trying, with the whole like, let the world unfold bullshit, which we're trying.

[Audience Member]

We're still trying it.

[Sissy (Sister)]

It's still like my anxiety's like, hey.

[Glennon Doyle]

Girl, are you sure? And I'm like, I see you, but we're not hanging out anymore.

[Abby Wambach]

Yes.

[Sissy (Sister)]

And I have to like consciously be like. And then we. And then I say like, okay here. Like we're actually okay. I see you. I know you're working to protect me. I know you think that's what we need, but actually we don't.

[Glennon Doyle]

Foreign.

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Hello, friends. As you know, back to school season, meaning back to crazy bananas. Life season is officially here. And speaking of bananas and over scheduling, I've been leaning hard on my Whole Foods Market runs right about now to keep everything on track. Between packing lunches, planning quick dinners in the 13 minutes we have together, and just trying to stay sane during busy weeks, they've seriously come through. One thing that's been a total game changer is the365 by Whole Foods Market brand. I started picking up their frozen waffles and breakfast sausage and all kinds of things like that for the hectic mornings. And this is like magic because the kids get a good breakfast, we all get out the door on time. It's a win, win, win. And for lunches, they have organic granola bar, multi packs, and they have reduced sugar, juice boxes, bagged apples, all the things that are fast, easy, and you feel good for them to be eating. Explore so many ways to save on back to school finds at Whole Foods Market.

[Abby Wambach]

Okay, we're gonna go to the top row. Anybody have a question? Yeah, right there. When you're going like this, stand up and move yourself to the center in the middle.

[Audience Member]

Yes.

[Abby Wambach]

That was efficient. Okay, go ahead and ask your question.

[Audience Member]

Hi, my name is Jen, and I just want to throw out a couple of things. One, you know, the universe relates, I think, puts us in situations that presents us opportunity to be able to grow. And myself, I'm in this really icky phase of life with a lot of stuff going on, right. Working on my shadow work, my therapist is great. I would love to know your perspective on when you get feedback, right, or somebody gives you an opinion and you're like, I can decide really how I want to interact with them. But here's the kicker. Nobody gives you the space to grow based on that feedback. So, particularly like Glennon, you're an activist. You all are. When we're asking for change and including for ourselves, how do we as cheetahs, how do we stay resilient to that constant asking for you to change who you are, how you interact with people, but get zero space?

[Glennon Doyle]

That's a good question.

[Audience Member]

Happy, Unhappy.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah. Good luck, babe.

[Glennon Doyle]

I mean, I can only tell you, like, my most Recent experience with this, because it changes for me every year. I think that I just realized. I think I spent so much time trying to be or appear to be or convince people that I was a good person. I was doing that all the time. When anyone was mad at me or when anyone was criticizing me or when anyone was saying all the things, which people do say a lot of things to me. I was constantly wondering if they were right secretly that I was not a good person or that I was. That's always what I heard in the criticism. Right? Or trying to argue back and show all the reasons that I was a good person. I finally realized that doesn't matter. I was in a situation recently where there was so many people mad at me and so many people yelling at me about whether I was doing anything right or giving me lots of feedback. And I realized, oh, my God, why would I spend one. I don't even know if I'm a good person. Like, who cares? There's so much shit to get done. Why would I spend one minute arguing with you about whether I'm a good person? Why don't I just go do something good and keep doing good things and keep showing up for people who have. They don't give a shit. These people being rounded up by ice, all the people in this country who are absolutely. Have so much less power and privilege than we do right now. They do not care whether we are a good or bad person. They just need us to show up and do the right thing. So I think it's almost like a touch of futility and narcissism to even care anymore. It doesn't matter whether you like me or not. I think what matters is that I can sleep at night. Yeah. I mean, because honestly, how you do. Half the time, people say shit to me. I'm like, yeah, you're right. That's dumb of me. Half the time they're right, half the time they're wrong. Half the time it has nothing to do with us. Half the time somebody says something to you about you. We don't see the people as they are. We see people as we are. So most of the things that people are saying to you are about them. And then also there are these beautiful moments where somebody says something to us that we're like, yeah, I'll take that.

[Sissy (Sister)]

That's. That's right.

[Glennon Doyle]

That one's right. It's like 20% of the time. I think the most important feedback is the feedback you give yourself. At the end of the day, when you look in the Mirror.

[Abby Wambach]

We'll go down here.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Hello, my name is Sophia.

[Abby Wambach]

I'm just so excited to be here.

[Sissy (Sister)]

So excited to be in front of you three. I was going to ask a question that was very similar to what above.

[Abby Wambach]

Me asks, but what I want to.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Adjust it a little bit, which is.

[Abby Wambach]

That I'm actively in a disagreement with my sister, who I adore. She's my older sister.

[Audience Member]

She has two kids.

[Abby Wambach]

I was going to go visit her.

[Sissy (Sister)]

In two weeks and now I'm not. Oh, that's hard.

[Abby Wambach]

And it happened because I asked for.

[Sissy (Sister)]

A little accommodation based off my history.

[Audience Member]

Of being a people pleaser, codependent person.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Who was trying not to self abandon.

[Glennon Doyle]

Try not to laugh.

[Abby Wambach]

Self abandon.

[Glennon Doyle]

Oh, yes.

[Sissy (Sister)]

And what happened was that I was.

[Abby Wambach]

Told that I was a little bit.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Too much and I was making things, like, complicated for people.

[Abby Wambach]

And so I agree with you, Glennon, when it is someone who is not so meaningful and has such a long.

[Sissy (Sister)]

History of love and warmth.

[Abby Wambach]

So I don't know what to do.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Then when I'm trying not to self.

[Abby Wambach]

Abandon and I don't want to lose this relationship.

[Sissy (Sister)]

And so wondering if you can talk about how you do that when you.

[Glennon Doyle]

Care about the person, that's different. Yours is different. Family is different. Ram Dass used to always say, you think you're enlightened to go home and spend a week with your family. What do you think about that? I mean, sisterhood is hard. It is the most beautiful thing in the world. And it is very hard because, you know, we're all walking around here trying not to deal with our core wounds. Like, our core wounds, the stuff that happened to us in our family of origin, whether there was a lot of love there or not, no matter what, we have wounds there. And the beauty of much of siblinghood is that with each other, those core wounds come right to the top every time. So every interaction is not even about the thing ever. It's like 50 leagues beneath the sea. Right? What do you want to say to her about sisterhood? That's a hard one, man.

[Sissy (Sister)]

I mean, I think I sat down.

[Abby Wambach]

Good.

[Sissy (Sister)]

You deserve to sit down.

[Glennon Doyle]

That was stressful.

[Sissy (Sister)]

I have a lot to say about it, but I think you can.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Nor.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Should you save her from the impact of your existence on her.

[Glennon Doyle]

Right.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Like, that's not a thing that.

[Glennon Doyle]

You.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Can fix or should fix, because it's when you say, I want to save the relationship. Like, you will lose that relationship if you know in your heart. You said what you needed, she balked, and you took it back. Like, it's over then, because you know that you are not safe to show up the way that you need to show up and that you can't trust yourself around her. Because if your self said what it needed and then yourself took it back when it got icky, then you can't trust yourself around her. So it really isn't a question of whether you can trust her. It's a question of whether you can trust yourself and to stay with yourself in her presence.

[Abby Wambach]

I also think that because I have complicated relationship with my whole family, too, and whenever I go home, I literally do this on the plane. And don't make fun of me. I literally, like, surround myself with white light in my mind, and I'm like, you can take your body anywhere it wants to go. You have a credit card. You can leave whenever you want. You can leave whenever you want. And so I don't want to take. Oftentimes when we ask for some sort of accommodation in some way, what we're also trying to do is grow the spine to be strong enough to be able to stand up and walk out of any fucking room you need to walk out of. The interpersonal relationship is less important right now until you can get your relationship with you solid enough where you can walk yourself in and out of any room.

[Glennon Doyle]

Ooh, that's good.

[Abby Wambach]

Because then the other stuff doesn't matter, right?

[Sissy (Sister)]

And then you can have compassion for her, because I think that's the other thing. Like, in sister relationships, it's like, you know each other's. Like, if it was a video game, like, you'd know exactly the place that you're like, well, that's death kill right there, right? And. And that's what makes it so intimate. And that's also what makes it, like, frankly, dangerous. And so I think you can also, if you know you have your own back, then you can look at her with compassion and be like, oh, this is so hard for her. Like, she's got a little sister who she's probably severely codependent and enmeshed with, who suddenly asserted that she was her own person. And she is taking that deeply and tragically personally because.

[Glennon Doyle]

Because she thinks you're one person.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Mentioning for a friend. That friend is me.

[Glennon Doyle]

We feel you.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Yeah.

[Glennon Doyle]

So she's just having a hard time.

[Sissy (Sister)]

With you separating yourself in some way. And that's hard, and it's also necessary, and she'll get through it. And you will also get through it if you stick with yourself.

[Glennon Doyle]

And nobody ever talks about. It's not. We think we all learned about boundaries, okay? Everybody talks about boundaries. Great. But what we don't tell people is when we finally get up the courage to set the boundary, like you said, the thing. That's actually not the hard part.

[Sissy (Sister)]

It's not.

[Glennon Doyle]

You say the thing. Never in the history of the world has anyone in a family unit said something that was different than what we all agreed on before. You have no needs. This is your role. This is your. Because we're all given scripts. Every family rolls a script. Nobody has ever gone off script. And then everyone in the family went, oh, okay. That sounds good. Yeah. No, no. When somebody on stage goes off script and says a new line, everybody else freaks the hell out because then they all have to change. Change their roles. Like, she's freaking out right now. That's okay.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Glennon Doyle]

You recalibrated. Now she has to recalibrate. Right? You can give her time. You can do that with an open, gentle heart. You don't have to be mad at her while she does it. That's what I do. I get so mad at people for thinking they're mad at me. And nobody's ever said they're mad at me. You actually don't have to do that. It's like you set the boundary and then you just wait. The storm is gonna come after you set them down. You hold, hold, hold. It's not your time. It's like you played chess. You did the thing. You're. No, you just wait for the storm to pass, wait for them to change their rolls, and then see. And if you keep a soft heart, plus, you are a love, like your energy. It's gonna be okay.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, you're gonna be good. All right, let's find another question. Up top. Thank you.

[Audience Member]

Hi, my name is kylie. I turned 27 in two weeks.

[Glennon Doyle]

Oh, little baby.

[Audience Member]

I feel geriatric. I feel like my life is ending because I'm in my late 20s. So how do I get over that?

[Glennon Doyle]

I feel like my life.

[Abby Wambach]

Hold on a second. What did she say? Did you say you're feeling geriatric? Okay, okay.

[Glennon Doyle]

How do you think that makes us feel?

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Glennon Doyle]

That'S okay, honey. Keep going. She's like, I'm not taking cues.

[Sissy (Sister)]

You're taking cues.

[Abby Wambach]

So the question is, how do we make you feel better about being so old? Is that it?

[Sissy (Sister)]

Yeah, that's a question.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, I think it is.

[Glennon Doyle]

It's all downhill for you. But hold on, hold on. Let's just hold some space.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, sure.

[Glennon Doyle]

Hold, hold. Okay. Is it possible I'm just trying to Empathize. I'm trying to think. I'm trying to remember when I was 27. You were wasted. I know, I was so drunk. So that's one option. I'm just trying to get into a 27 year old space. I mean, we do have lots of crappy ideas in this country about how fast we're supposed to be achieving and doing all kinds of stuff, and it's all bullshit. Are you worried that you haven't like gotten enough done on the planet yet or actually want to know what you're worried about?

[Abby Wambach]

Yes.

[Audience Member]

All my friends are married and have babies.

[Glennon Doyle]

Oh, honey, they're missing a bit. Give them a minute, they'll be back. You are crushing it. Oh, sweetheart, that is stressful because at.

[Sissy (Sister)]

That time, you know what I always think about? You know how. Okay, so depending it changes by state, but for some reason there's like a magical age in every state where it's like There will be 35 weddings in your friend group this, this year. It just so happens that everybody met the person they want to spend the rest of their lives with this year.

[Glennon Doyle]

No, they didn't.

[Sissy (Sister)]

This is so arbitrary.

[Glennon Doyle]

They just got fomo. They just got FOMO and grabbed the first person that they saw because their friend was getting married. They're like, this is the time, let's go. You'll do, you'll do, you'll do.

[Sissy (Sister)]

So that's silliness. We should really relook at that. We really, really should.

[Glennon Doyle]

But there is.

[Sissy (Sister)]

There's always like, whether you're 27 or 37 or 47 or 57, there's like, it does feel like there's a little bit of. There's always a pressure that you should have done something by now. Your life should be in more order than it is. Your relationship should be X, Y and Z. And you should just generally have your shit a little more together than you do, like at every stage. And I think there's a legitimate grief of every stage. The good news about getting older is, hey, still kicking. The bad news is that that period of your life really is coming to a close. And so I think it is a disservice to be like when we make getting older this tragic thing, as if it is, which is so silly. But it's also, we shouldn't minimize that something is done. You know, your 20s are done. For me, I was like, thank you, baby Jesus. Minds of twenties are done. But I mean, there is a period of time that you do, you grieve and so. But no one has Their shit together at 27 or 37 or 47. So, like, there isn't at all. And like, I have a life hack.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, I've got a life hack for you.

[Glennon Doyle]

Buckle up.

[Abby Wambach]

I'm the youngest of seven in my family and I choose to only hang out with older people. And so I always feel young.

[Glennon Doyle]

Trying not to take that personally right now.

[Abby Wambach]

That's it. So, like, when my older brothers and sisters, like, they turn 50, they're about to turn 60. I'm like, they're old and I am young, so. And I'm saying that at almost 45, so you've got plenty of time.

[Glennon Doyle]

But I love you and I do think we should hang out with more. Like, we should do more intergenerational stuff. Like, it was so hard to be 27. I would not. It is so hard to have all the shoulds in front of you and have the whole world telling you, you should be this or you should be that. And you still care about what people think. When you're 20, you still care.

[Sissy (Sister)]

That's the real thing.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah. Yeah, you still care.

[Abby Wambach]

And so the 40s, that starts to go away.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

Wonderful.

[Tish Melton]

Hang in there, love bug.

[Abby Wambach]

All right, we got one down here.

[Sissy (Sister)]

So my name is Blaine, and just.

[Glennon Doyle]

Like the town, Minnesota.

[Abby Wambach]

Hey, I can't believe I'm in the same room.

[Audience Member]

So I was one of the blogs that you highlighted on mama's Terry, like 12 million years ago.

[Glennon Doyle]

Anyway, that's not the point.

[Sissy (Sister)]

My question is, what is your self.

[Audience Member]

Care to stop hurting?

[Glennon Doyle]

To stop what?

[Abby Wambach]

Hurting.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Stop hurting.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Glennon Doyle]

What is your self care to stop.

[Audience Member]

Hurting with all of the shit that.

[Glennon Doyle]

We have to fucking deal with? Yeah, yeah. I never stop hurting.

[Abby Wambach]

That's true.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah. I don't even think that's the goal for me anymore. Like, I'll never forget being at one of my first AA meetings and I said something like this, like, I just want to be happy. I just. How do I be happy? How do I be happier? And this like, old lady kind of grabbed my leg and she said, oh, honey, being human isn't about feeling happy. It's about feeling everything. And like, I don't know, I just think this whole, like, pursuit of happiness thing is so. It's like the pursuit of it is what makes us miss everything. Like, I don't even know what we're trying to do. I just. I think the only self care that's real for me is to like, slow down. Like just slow down enough to notice how I feel and to notice my humanity and to notice Intuition. Like we run so fast to try to get happy grabbing all the things, like the next. I mean, the amount of time I spend on Zillow, it's just.

[Abby Wambach]

I am also guilty.

[Glennon Doyle]

Play pack.

[Abby Wambach]

Love Zillow.

[Glennon Doyle]

You know, I've gotten to the point where I can measure my mental health by how many hours I'm spending on Zillow a day.

[Abby Wambach]

It's like I can measure it by how many houses you send me on email from Zillow. I'm like, oh, it's not a good day.

[Glennon Doyle]

And I'm like, okay. My self care is like, if I'm looking for a cabin with no electricity in the middle of the woods in some state I've never been to, maybe I just need a minute by myself in my house. If I'm visited the next day, I'm looking for a commune in New York where all my friends can live. Like, maybe I just need to call Liz. It's very small things, you know, But I know it looks like online it looks like everybody's happy. I know everybody. And they're not happy. Right. They're just like us. Everybody's just like either avoiding their feelings or sitting in them a little bit. And I think when we sit in them, we find what we're meant to do next and who we love. And I mean, I'm slowing down a lot, getting quieter. I'm crying all the time now. I'm like, I don't know where that came from.

[Abby Wambach]

That's fun. Well, I've been the crier in our family, so it's actually fun. Like before she was just like. It'd be like a sad movie. Sad.

[Glennon Doyle]

Well, I've been on Lexapro since I was born.

[Abby Wambach]

I know, but she'd just be like this, looking at me and I'm like, now she's crying. So it's good.

[Glennon Doyle]

I think it's okay to hurt. I think the best people hurt. That's like we need the people who are sensitive enough to feel what's going on in the world and the people who are sad. The sadness is the gap between the vision you have inside of yourself about how things should be and the reality of how things are. That's why visionaries have the biggest sadness, because the big sadness is the biggest gap you can see between what you know. This relationship could be more beautiful, this person's life could be more beautiful, this planet could be more beautiful, this country could be more beautiful. And you feel the vision inside of you and you see the reality and there's such a distance, and that distance is the sadness. So keep the sadness. The sad people are the ones who stretch to make the vision come true on earth, which is what that whole shit about on earth as it is in heaven means. Wow.

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[Abby Wambach]

Okay, we're gonna go up top again. There you go.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Thank you for being here. My name is Michael.

[Glennon Doyle]

Hi.

[Sissy (Sister)]

I heard you live the first time in the Twin Cities in November 2016.

[Glennon Doyle]

Oh, my God. Wow. Love Warrior.

[Sissy (Sister)]

On October 20, 2016, my husband was diagnosed with stage four cancer. 48. And I listened to you tell us in the audience that one way you navigate hard things, you lean on your.

[Glennon Doyle]

Community, but don't take too many showers.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Because then you look good and they don't know you're having a hard time.

[Glennon Doyle]

That's right. That's right. You gotta look sad.

[Sissy (Sister)]

I stood up and I asked you, in addition to not showering, how do you navigate really, really hard things? And I think you even stood up, and you said, you take it one.

[Glennon Doyle]

Step at a time.

[Sissy (Sister)]

You look for that next spot that lights up, and you just go there. You can't figure all this out. My husband is still alive.

[Glennon Doyle]

Wow.

[Sissy (Sister)]

He has recurrences, but he quit his corporate job.

[Audience Member]

He's coaching.

[Sissy (Sister)]

We're teaching about navigating hard things in life. And I always tell my Glennon story. Whoever I'm with, God bless you.

[Glennon Doyle]

I just want to know, for the.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Three of you, eight years later, for Glenn and for the three of you, how do you balance one step at a time with the immensity of either personal hardships or this country we're living.

[Glennon Doyle]

In, in this moment.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Do you have any revised take on that?

[Glennon Doyle]

You are beautiful.

[Sissy (Sister)]

Yeah.

[Glennon Doyle]

What do you think, Sissy? I want to know what you guys think about that one.

[Sissy (Sister)]

I felt on the what's going on in the country situation, I think that a lot of the overwhelm, where we feel like we're getting flooded right now, just absolutely flooded as an intentional strategy with so much violence, so much dehumanization. It is an intentional strategy to do that, because when they do that to us, we feel like our only choice is to either look away or to go numb. And it's shrewd. It's actually historically a repeated process. And so I think when we're so flooded like that, when we're so overwhelmed, it feels like, oh, my God, this is Brand new. This is unprecedented. I am full of fear. What will happen if we're even daring to continue to look, as opposed to look away. And what I find to be super helpful in those times is to not look forward, but look back. This moment is alarming and outrageous and we should be outraged about outrageous things. But it is also something that has happened over and over, over and over and over. And so I like to read stories about freedom fighters of the past. I like to read stories about American history. I think that. About apartheid history about Fascism 1.0. Like I really think we would all benefit from that because it is horrifying to read and strangely comforting when we find ourselves owed the. This is not a unique personal experience to us. This is not an individual fear that we are facing about something that is happening to us. This is the human story. Like Michelle Alexander said, we are not the resistance. They are resisting the flood. That is the people's pursuit of their self determination, of their liberation, of their joy. And when you look back and see all the ways that others before us have fought really, really hard for what they have gained, you suddenly don't feel overwhelmed and scared. You just decide, am I taking my place where I belong in the way things work, which is that people rise up to take totalitarian power and then the people either take their place to fight it and to caretake the world, or they don't. And it makes it very simple. It's like I want to do that. I want to be part of the history of the way the world works. And so for me, it just feels like it takes the fear out and just makes it math. Dictators are gonna dictate, people are gonna. People, let's show up in people and dictators gonna dictate.

[Glennon Doyle]

So good.

[Sissy (Sister)]

That helps me.

[Abby Wambach]

So good. Okay, let's go to this, this person here.

[Audience Member]

My name is Darcy.

[Glennon Doyle]

Hi, Darcy.

[Audience Member]

Everybody here is just so amazed to be in the same room with you. And I don't know if you remember or if you saw, but I had sent an email to you, I had written a poem. All the parts of me are the many parts of you. And that really is just kind of the story of how I see myself in each of you. And the way that you have traveled on my journey with me and been every step of the way. Exactly what I needed to hear right at the right time. I got divorced. I got divorced. I left the Catholic church. I'm a four. I found out I am neurodivergent. And I also found out at 45 that I'm queer.

[Abby Wambach]

Yes.

[Glennon Doyle]

Welcome. You're so lucky.

[Audience Member]

And as a fellow educator also struggling with the world of education right now. So my question is, do you know how massive of an impact you have on us.

[Glennon Doyle]

Sister? Wow. Great job, Sissy.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. I'm, like, tearing up. Okay, hold on a second. I've got a surprise.

[Glennon Doyle]

What is your name again?

[Sissy (Sister)]

Darcy. Darcy, I have a little surprise.

[Abby Wambach]

Because you guys are so beautiful. Today is Glennon and my's anniversary. I wanted you all to be a part of this because I knew it would embarrass Glennon so much.

[Glennon Doyle]

I knew it was our anniversary. My dad texted me this morning, and then I Googled it.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, she's not good with numbers. I don't take it personally. She has other strengths. So one of Glennon's least favorite things is big shows of love. So that's what we're gonna do right now. And what I will tell you is, a few years back, I proposed to renew our vows, and that didn't go over so well because her family was there. So I'm going to try again because our family's here. So, Glennon, will you please renew your vows with me and marry me again?

[Tish Melton]

I will.

[Abby Wambach]

I will.

[Glennon Doyle]

She said yes. Happy anniversary.

[Abby Wambach]

Happy anniversary. You guys, we're gonna close out the show with Tish Melton. Tish, get out here. She's gonna play one more song for us.

[Glennon Doyle]

Darcy. Thank you. Thank you.

[Abby Wambach]

Hi.

[Glennon Doyle]

That was cute.

[Abby Wambach]

Are you so embarrassed? Are you crying?

[Glennon Doyle]

You're crying.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh, my gosh.

[Glennon Doyle]

Oh, my gosh.

[Abby Wambach]

That's so sweet. Are you. Are you. Were they tears because you were so embarrassed to have to come up here after? Okay, thank you all so much for coming. Thank you for coming. Thank you so much for coming. Thank you guys for coming. I will. Thank you for coming. Coming. Thank you so much for coming.

[Glennon Doyle]

That's so sweet. Thank you, Pod Squad. Thank you for showing up and for helping us stay human with your brave and beautiful questions. I will never forget those moments with you on the road. We cherished every single moment being together with you in person. God, we love doing life with you. We're closing this episode the same way we ended each unforgettable night with Tish singing. We Can Do Hard Things. Until next time. I give you Tish Melton and Brandi Carlile.

[Tish Melton]

I walked through fire I came out the other side I chased desire I made sure I got what's mine.

[Glennon Doyle]

And.

[Tish Melton]

I continue to believe that I'm the one for me and because I.

[Glennon Doyle]

I.

[Tish Melton]

Walk the line Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks Our map A final destination we lack We've stopped asking directions Some places they've never been and to be loved we need to be known we'll finally find our way back home and through the joy and pain that our lives bring we can do a hard thing I hit rock bottom it felt like a brand new start I'm not the problem Sometimes things fall apart and I continue to believe the best yes, people are free and it took some time but I'm finally fine Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on that our final destination we lack we stopped asking directions to places they've never been and to be loved we need to be known we'll finally find our way back home and through the joy and pain that our lives bring we we can do hard Take some math we might get lost but we're okay with that We've stopped asking directions to places they've never been and to be loved we need to be known we'll finally find our way back home and through through the joy and pain that our lives bring we can do hard things yeah, we can do hard things yeah, we can do hard things.

[Glennon Doyle]

Sa.