Podcast Summary: We Can Do Hard Things – Episode with Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach on Finding Family Success

Episode Title: Glennon and Abby on Finding Family Success
Host/Author: Glennon Doyle and Audacy
Release Date: May 18, 2025

Introduction

In this heartfelt episode of We Can Do Hard Things, Glennon Doyle welcomes her wife, Abby Wambach, to join Michelle Obama and Craig Robinson on the esteemed podcast imo. The episode delves deep into the challenges of balancing family dynamics, career aspirations, and the quest for community support amidst frequent relocations. The primary focus centers around a listener named Shira’s dilemma about whether to move back to New York City for better career opportunities or stay in rural Maine for family stability.

The Listener's Question

Shira’s Dilemma:

Shira, a 43-year-old mother of two, shares her struggle with deciding whether to relocate from rural Maine back to New York City. Her concerns include:

• Isolation: Lack of a robust support network in Maine.
• Career Opportunities: Limited prospects for her handbag business and her husband’s film editing career.
• Family Stability: Desire to provide an anchored home base for her children.
• Financial Constraints: High living costs in NYC and limited financial resources.
• Childcare: Affordability and accessibility of quality childcare in urban areas.

Shira’s Question:
"Given that there isn't one perfect city or one obvious reason to move anywhere, what should we prioritize when deciding when we have limited financial resources to draw from, but life is too expensive in the city where we can make the most money? What guiding principles should we use when deciding where to set up our family for the greatest stability and success?" ([09:54])

Discussion Points

1. The Importance of Community and Support Systems

Abby Wambach emphasizes the critical role of community in raising children:

"Kids respond to their situations based on how you act. If you're okay with it, if you're okay, they’re gonna be okay." ([20:24])

Michelle Obama shares her experience as the First Lady, highlighting the challenges of building a community amidst the isolation of the White House:

“I had to try to be so much smaller to fit into a place, to try to build community...” ([44:36])

Glennon Doyle adds that creating intentional friendships outside the family is vital for building a support network:

"Sometimes the support you need is not your family. There's something to the accountability of community." ([41:41])

2. Balancing Career and Family Stability

Abby Wambach discusses the financial and emotional implications of moving:

"Quality of life, too, with your career. Because if you're living in such an expensive place where all your income is going to rent and tuition and you can't save for college and you can't have a vacation, you can't take time off." ([53:22])

Michelle Obama reflects on the necessity of financial stability over material aspirations:

"Our father was pretty clear on not being house poor. He didn't make risky decisions that would put us in a position where he couldn't pay or he couldn't save for college." ([54:21])

3. Parenting Through Change and Building Resilience

Abby Wambach shares her approach to parenting during significant life changes:

"Kids need to know you can bump your head and you can figure it out. Don't do it again. Let's talk about it after the fact." ([61:25])

Glennon Doyle underscores the importance of allowing children to develop resilience:

"They need to know you're okay so that your job actually can be to create resilient kids." ([65:37])

Michelle Obama discusses the balance between fostering independence and maintaining a supportive presence:

“They’re doing it 24/7 on their phones. It’s scarier for them.” ([60:03])

4. Financial Prudence and Avoiding “House Poor”

Abby Wambach illustrates the significance of financial prudence through personal anecdotes:

"Our father was pretty clear on not being house poor. He just didn't make a lot of risky decisions that would put us in a position where he couldn't pay or he couldn't save for college." ([54:21])

Glennon Doyle echoes the necessity of aligning family success with personal definitions rather than societal expectations:

"I think people are starting to ask what success really means for their family, not just keeping up with the culture’s default." ([55:54])

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

1. Abby Wambach:
   "Kids respond to their situations based on how you act. If you're okay with it, if you're okay, they’re gonna be okay." ([20:24])

2. Michelle Obama:
   "I had to try to be so much smaller to fit into a place, to try to build community..." ([44:36])

3. Glennon Doyle:
   "Sometimes the support you need is not your family. There's something to the accountability of community." ([41:41])

4. Abby Wambach:
   "Quality of life, too, with your career. Because if you're living in such an expensive place where all your income is going to rent and tuition and you can't save for college and you can't have a vacation, you can't take time off." ([53:22])

5. Glennon Doyle:
   "They need to know you're okay so that your job actually can be to create resilient kids." ([65:37])

6. Michelle Obama:
   “They’re doing it 24/7 on their phones. It’s scarier for them.” ([60:03])

Personal Anecdotes and Insights

Abby Wambach and Michelle Obama’s Experiences:

• Move to the White House: Abby shares her fears about relocating her family to Washington D.C. when Barack Obama became President, worrying about disrupting her children's lives. However, she observed that children are more resilient than parents anticipate.

  "Kids are way more resilient, I think, than we give them credit for." ([20:24])

• Parenting Styles: Both Abby and Michelle discuss their approaches to parenting during their respective high-profile roles, navigating guilt, discipline, and fostering independence.

  "Don't try to do this parenting thing on your own. You need help, you need insight, you need advice, you need other people's perspectives." ([44:35])

Glennon Doyle’s Reflections:

• Relocation and Stability: Glennon reflects on her own experiences with frequent moves, highlighting the lack of roots and the continuous search for the "right place."

  "They have a lot of wings, but they don't have the roots." ([15:53])

• Defining Success: Emphasizes the importance of defining personal and familial success instead of adhering to societal benchmarks.

  "What is success for this little family? Like not feeling scarcity, having a cushion, then you start to make different decisions." ([55:54])

Conclusions and Takeaways

1. Define Personal Success: Families should collaboratively define what success means to them, prioritizing stability, happiness, and community over societal expectations.

2. Build and Nurture Community: Establishing a strong support network outside the immediate family is crucial, especially when relocating. Intentional relationships with other parents can provide valuable support and resources.

3. Financial Prudence: Prioritize financial stability over high-cost living areas. Avoiding becoming "house poor" ensures that families have a financial cushion to handle unexpected challenges.

4. Foster Resilience in Children: Allow children to navigate challenges and develop independence. Parenting should balance guidance with allowing children to learn from their own experiences.

5. Be Flexible and Prepared to Pivot: Life is unpredictable, and being prepared to adjust plans ensures that families can handle unforeseen circumstances without undue stress.

6. Avoid Parenting Out of Guilt: Decisions about moving and changing lifestyles should be made based on what is best for the family, not out of guilt or external pressures.

7. Maintain Direct Stability: The direct relationships within the family—between partners and with children—serve as the true pillars of stability, regardless of geographical changes.

Final Thoughts

This episode of We Can Do Hard Things offers profound insights into the intricacies of balancing family life with career ambitions amidst the challenges of relocation. Through candid discussions and personal stories, Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, Michelle Obama, and Craig Robinson provide valuable guidance for families navigating similar crossroads. The emphasis on community, financial stability, and fostering resilience presents a holistic approach to defining and achieving family success in today’s dynamic world.

Relevant Links:

• We Can Do Hard Things Podcast: We Can Do Hard Things
• MasterClass: masterclass.com/HardThings
• ALMA Therapy Services: helloalma.com/hardthings
• Vuori Clothing: vuori.com/hardthings