← We Can Do Hard Things
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- [00:00]
Glennon Doyle
As parents, we all want to set our kids up for success, but it's not always easy. Maybe you've got a kid struggling with a particular subject or they need help with homework, or it takes you 67 hours to find the online database where the assignments live. God help us. All of these situations are where IXL learning comes in. IXL is an online learning program designed to help kids understand fully subjects like math, language arts, science and social studies. They adapt to each child's needs with positive, positive feedback to keep them engaged and motivated. One subscription covers Pre K through 12th grade, making it easier to use for all kids, no matter age or level. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now and we can do hard things. Listeners get an exclusive 20% off IXL membership when they sign up. Today at IXLE learning.com we visit IXL learning.com we can to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price.
- [01:05]
Abby Wambach
We just got this package from Symbiotica and I'm so excited. I've used their liposomal glutathione and the vitamin C and they're my favorite products by far. The liposomal form gets it into your system and actually gets it to the places that you need it to be. So that especially during the winter times and the colds and all the things, I just need my system and my immune system to be like strong and capable of going outside and not worrying about getting sick. And that's what Symbiotica is giving me. It's giving me for real belief in my body again.
- [01:37]
Amanda Doyle
I know it's real. Just to Symbiotica. Thank you for making my wife so happy.
- [01:41]
Abby Wambach
High quality holistic wellness right at your fingertips. Be present and feel your best for life's most memorable moments. Go to symbiotica.com Glennon for 20% off your order plus free shipping today. That's symbiotica.com Glennon For 20 percent off your order plus free shipping. Welcome. Welcome back to we can do hard things. How are we all doing today?
- [02:20]
Amanda Doyle
We're so good. We have decided. If you listened to last episode, you know that we have decided to during this time that is so difficult for so many. In particular, our situation is being an adjacent town to Los Angeles and dealing with all of the fear and beauty and loss of this time that we're going to hold tight to each other and love and joy. And we're going to talk about our recent togetherness time as a family, which was the holidays. And if you haven't listened to the last episode, you really might want to, because Abigail, Mary Abigail Wambach, shared with us some absolutely beautiful. Heart opening, life shifting, paradigm blowing, upping stories.
- [03:14]
Abby Wambach
I'm fixed.
- [03:15]
Amanda Doyle
She's fixed. Done.
- [03:17]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah. Bad news. We're gonna have to end the podcast because Abby's fixed. Nothing else to talk about.
- [03:23]
Abby Wambach
I don't know. Glennon's still got some problems.
- [03:25]
Amanda Doyle
All right, all right, all right. I really do feel like I give us a lot of job security.
- [03:29]
Glennon Doyle
You are endless material.
- [03:31]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [03:31]
Glennon Doyle
As my old therapist used to say. I just feel like there's a lot of fertile ground here.
- [03:37]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [03:37]
Glennon Doyle
So I just feel like I'm not sure we're going to go fallow anytime soon.
- [03:42]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. If you want to hear the story that fixed Abby, it's in the last episode. Today we're going to talk about. Well, first I want to tell you about the gift Abby gave me for Christmas, which the first thing that's interesting about it is we both kind of did the exact same thing without knowing, which is we had little pieces of jewelry made for each other with meaning inscribed in them, which was a cool coincidence.
- [04:10]
Abby Wambach
By the same jeweler.
- [04:11]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, by our friend Thea at Drew. This is not an ad. We just love her. So Abby's piece of jewelry was about her brother Peter, which you can hear in the last episode. But what I opened on Christmas morning, and what's cool about this is that Abby's jewelry had a meaning that was really based on the journey she's been on over the last two years, which was grief for loss of her brother and religious trauma healing. Religious trauma, which you all beautiful listeners have walked her through and kind of listened to unfold. And my piece of jewelry was also kind of a summation of the journey I've been on the last two years, which I guess manifested as an anorexia diagnosis and then turned into a process during which I examined all of the programming that I had inside of me, like you did, Abby, and sort of led me to let go of some ideas about control being a protection, which is kind of what I did in every arena in my life. Like, if I just control my appetite, I'll be safe. If I just control my environment, I'll be safe. If I just control the people around me, I'll be safe. If just this absolute death grip, white knuckle grip that I had on every aspect of my life, because I thought that that white knuckling was what was keeping all the planets spinning. So Abby and I had this moment a few months ago. And this moment came on the heels of years, the last two years of really heart wrenching discussions about new ways to live that weren't based on fear and control. And for me, I would say my final frontiers in terms of the death grip was food and my kids. Okay, like, fine. I will trust your idea that there is a center that will hold. I will trust your idea that I am not controlling it all.
- [06:26]
Abby Wambach
The center.
- [06:27]
Amanda Doyle
Right. That I am not that center. I will trust that my anxiety isn't actually what's keeping everyone safe. In fact, it's really upsetting everyone in every arena. But, like, when it comes to the kids, I am still the center that's been hard for me to let go of. So we were in this deep conversation about one of our kids who is an artist and the decisions that they were making that felt so brave and so scary to me and feeling like I had to be somebody who held the line on the plan B, not the abortion pill.
- [07:10]
Glennon Doyle
I mean, like, well, maybe that too.
- [07:11]
Amanda Doyle
That too. We have plenty of that also. But I mean that.
- [07:14]
Glennon Doyle
Right, right, exactly. Don't think I don't have a stockpile of that shit in my cabinet.
- [07:17]
Amanda Doyle
Yes, we do, too.
- [07:19]
Glennon Doyle
But a net. Who's thinking of the net for when this all collapses? Where are we gonna go next?
- [07:26]
Amanda Doyle
Right? And to my credit, I have not had any of these conversations in front of the child.
- [07:33]
Glennon Doyle
That's amazing.
- [07:34]
Amanda Doyle
These are conversations that Abby and I have and then figure out, like, how do we say it? And this particular conversation, I was trying to decide whether to step in and insist upon a plan B of some sort. And had I done that? I think we both knew that every parent's just trying to walk the balance of knowing that particular kid and what that will suggest into that kid's ecosystem. This particular kid looks to us for a lot of their eyes are wide when they look at us, and it is clear that they are taking in what we believe about them. Yeah, that is the vibe. I know it in my gut. I don't know if it's right or wrong. I don't know if it's because I've made myself too big of an entity. I have no idea. All I know is that is the truth right now. So I think that I knew in my gut that I had this voice saying, okay, so a responsible parent right now would say this, put this into play, make sure this other track is running. I also had this other side of myself that was like, if I say that this kid is going to translate it to mean I don't believe that they are worthy or capable of making the other track work.
- [08:59]
Glennon Doyle
Right.
- [09:00]
Amanda Doyle
Like, if I put this net beneath them while they trapeze in the air, I will feel better. But I think they might fall. Like, I think the fact of me just putting that net under there won't get in their head enough to make them fall when they wouldn't.
- [09:18]
Glennon Doyle
But is that a control thing, too?
- [09:20]
Amanda Doyle
Like, you still think I don't know. Anyway, the point is, all I'm saying is welcome to the my mind. Okay, okay. Okay. I also want to say, sometimes I feel like I joke about myself too much. Like I actually believe that all the things I just said are real. It sounds like I'm double thinking and I'm double. I actually truly believe that I was right about that. That thought.
- [09:43]
Glennon Doyle
No, I know, but isn't that interesting that you're like, I don't want to insert myself, but I feel like whether I do it or don't do it, it's impacting the outcome.
- [09:56]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [09:56]
Glennon Doyle
Like I'm not the center.
- [09:58]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [09:58]
Glennon Doyle
But I am impacting what will actually happen if I give the safety net. I get what you're saying. What you're saying is if I suggest to them that I'm not confident in them, do they lose confidence? And does that bump them off their track?
- [10:13]
Amanda Doyle
Because if I. Now, this is different. If you're a pod squatter and Your child is 5, this child is an adult. Okay? A fresh adult. A baby adult, but an adult. My question to myself was, if I do something, here I am interjecting myself as the center that will hold. I am once again providing a net. The question is, is there already a net that is not me.
- [10:45]
Glennon Doyle
Right. Right.
- [10:47]
Amanda Doyle
And if I interject myself as net, is that once again saying to my children, I've got you. I've got you. Don't worry, I've got you. Which feels like a correct vibe of parenting early. And there's this moment when the I've got you becomes poison. Because I've got you means you don't got you. I've got you means the universe doesn't got you. There's a vibe of I am here. If out there, you ever perceive that the center is not holding, come back. I'll be your temporary center anytime you need it. But I'm not going to follow you around. Being the net that is artificial. I had this thought the other day. This is morose, but we've been through some death in our family recently. Our Aunt Peggy died and we'll talk about that in another episode. But I have been part of moments now where you're surrounding a bed and your person is dying. And so I've had these visions recently of, like, when my kids are surrounding my deathbed. I don't want their thought to be. She was the best mom in the world. She handled everything. She was our center. She was the one who looked out for us. It's time for a different vibe, which is like, she taught us that we are our center. We've got us. That was her version of the last 20 years of mothering, was passing on that center to each of them. So when all of this sounds overthought, it is. But it's whatever. That's my job.
- [12:32]
Glennon Doyle
So.
- [12:32]
Abby Wambach
So, yeah, but you. I just want to be clear. We have kids that have ranged. They're five years apart. And I think it's important to note that where each of them are in their lives is in vastly different areas. They're like, when you're 16 versus 18 versus 21. Those are very different stages of life that require very different. And we're in the middle of all of it. So the youngest and the oldest, they're six years apart, five years apart. And the youngest, she's getting pretty baked, but we still have to be there with her because she's. She's baking herself. They're baking themselves, you know, and, like.
- [13:15]
Amanda Doyle
The ingredients are still changing, but. Right, right, right.
- [13:18]
Abby Wambach
But it's hard to figure out the balance of when to do the shift, because you do have to loosen your. And I actually just think that the net metaphor, I love it, but I think that net is this fake belief that we need in order to be a parent.
- [13:36]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, Well, I am obsessed with the net. When you just said, is there a net that is not me? Because that to me is.
- [13:45]
Abby Wambach
Whoa.
- [13:46]
Glennon Doyle
Because we think it's either me or no net.
- [13:50]
Amanda Doyle
No, there is a net.
- [13:50]
Glennon Doyle
We think if I don't show up, then. Oh, my God. Then that's actually endangering them, because then they're just gonna. The ground and. But that is a story that we're the only net. Then that's. Are we actually taking away from them the beautiful work of building their own net of their own people and figuring out what they're going to do?
- [14:15]
Amanda Doyle
Yes, we are.
- [14:17]
Abby Wambach
We're just like a section of the net. We're like a few of the strings woven in their net. They are weaving it with their friends, with their sisters and brothers, with their other parents, with their other extended family.
- [14:31]
Amanda Doyle
With Their God, if they have.
- [14:32]
Abby Wambach
But I do think that this is a thing that mothers feel. It's this idea. And I don't know if this is a need for worthiness or this is my life's work idea, but I do think that the net we need to consider. What is the net? Is there in fact a net that you have been holding up underneath these children forever? I don't know.
- [14:54]
Amanda Doyle
Well, yeah, and it's like that bigger question that we talked about in the last episode. Like, for me, if you're looking too close at parenting and you're like, do I do this or do I do this? Do I this? What will make me a better mother? What will make them safer? What will make them better? What would a good mother do? And then it's like, actually, if we take out all of those paradigms and words and you're thinking, I am a bit of a guide, and in a split second I'm going to be leaving this person, one thing is for sure that if the universe unfolds as it should, and the parent goes first, which doesn't always happen, this person will be left without me. And so making myself their net is not the best play here. It's not the kindest, wisest, most generous thing I could do for this person. So how do I stand back enough, deal with my own anxiety, my own mistaken beliefs about worthiness and importance in this person's life, and get rid of my ideas about what a good mom would do and say, like, what would a wise guide do? What would a wise, loving guide do so that I am not this person's only lifeline? Because then what, right? So then there's all that. And then there's the other part that you learn when you start doing the kind of particular work that I've been doing over the last two years about relinquishing control, is that you realize how many times you have changed the outcome of something that might have been more beautiful had you not interjected yourself in a particular way. And so that's what I mean in this particular situation where I thought, oh, God, if I rush in and say anything here, I could change the ingredients of what needs to happen. Because what this kid is doing is really bold and brave and self directed and. And I think it took me. It took enough experiments and I'm talking small experiments, like there's a family conversation going on and it's going away, that I don't like how it's going. And I feel like this thing needs to be said. The narrative of this talk needs to get back on track and towards the value that I want everyone to take from this moment. What if I don't say anything? I have been doing these mini experiments. What if I say nothing and just see what happens? And by God, if everyone doesn't get to the thing that I would have annoyingly interjected in a controlling way. But watching it unfold in these tiny ways makes me understand there is a net, there is a center, there is a beautiful unfolding that happens in the micro and possibly the macro. So we're having this conversation about what should we do, what should we not do? And Abby just looks at me and she goes, you can't fuck with the art. And I said, what? She goes, you can't fuck with the art. And it was a moment like the one in the previous conversation where we were just staring at each other like, wait, that was something. That was something. Let's stop there. Let's hover on this you can't fuck with the art situation. Now. What Abby meant, the first meaning was we have to let this artist do what she's gonna do. Art is something that is. If it's in a kid, it's just gotta play out. You cannot step in and say it's too unrealistic. It's too. You can't be the fearful world that you are. Fear that the. The child will experience. You can't become that for them. Let the whole world say no to them. Let the no not come from their home. Like let there was that you can't fuck with the art. Being literal. Like we have to let this artist go do their art. But for me it was so much deeper. It was about life. It was about like not interjecting myself, trusting that life is art and that there isn't some kind of artist that is not me all the time.
- [19:36]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah.
- [19:37]
Amanda Doyle
And that things are unfolding based on a system that I can't see and don't understand. In a way that if I let go and just watch my family, watch a conversation wide eyed, watch my career, watch my child step out and do their thing, that there is an art there that I get to see. It's a gift to me. It's like, holy shit, it feels too good to be true. It's like a gift to myself that I don't have to pretend anymore that everything depends on me. We have a very exciting trip coming up.
- [20:33]
Abby Wambach
Oh, I can't wait.
- [20:34]
Amanda Doyle
Pod Squad. We are going to stay in Park City in a big house with all of the people who we worked with to produce Andrew Gibson's documentary, which is called Come See Me in the Good Light. Okay. So we've been working on this documentary all year, and it's going to Sundance. Yay. Yay. And we all wanted to stay together. And so Abby and I found this big, beautiful house that all the. I mean, I think it's pretty much all lesbians. Mostly all lesbians. It's going to be a very gay, cozy house. We all want to have our own spaces, but we all want to feel connected.
- [21:09]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [21:10]
Amanda Doyle
So we went with Airbnb. If you're traveling with family or friends this winter like we are, consider an Airbnb. Those extra rooms and a full kitchen make all the difference. And if you're going solo, you can still find a place that feels. Feels like your own little sanctuary no matter where you are. So next time you're planning a winter getaway, give Airbnb a try. Trust me, it's an experience you won't regret.
- [21:32]
Glennon Doyle
Okay, I'm excited to tell you today about MIDI Health. If you have heard our menopause episodes, you know how passionate I feel about women having access to information about their bodies and about something that so fundamentally affects their lives. Here's the deal. If you're over 40 and you're starting to experience some of the symptoms of perimenopause or menopause, if you're having hot flashes, insomnia, brain fog, moodiness, all of this can be related to perimenopause or menopause. Log on to MIDI Health. I have done this. It is easy. In fact, I have recently been pursuing with MIDI health hormone therapy to replace some of the hormones that are diminishing in my body. The clinicians, they meet with you and they suggest specialized care for your health concerns. It's all through telehealth and 247 messaging, and they call in your prescriptions to your local pharmacy. You deserve to feel great. Book your virtual visit today at join midi. That's joinmidi.com so you all know I've.
- [22:39]
Amanda Doyle
Been using Bokeh for a while now, and I'm into it. Okay. This is like the new toothpaste with lots of different flavors, and it's kind of making my mornings and evenings a little bit more delightful. Bokeh is on a mission to inspire more mindful oral care. Their toothpaste is free from fluoride, parabens, sls, and artificial additives. It's powered by nature. It's a clean, safe way to keep your mouth and body happy and they have delightful and delicious flavors like element and they also offer cool ones like cocoa, ginger and lemon lavender. And they've got kid friendly flavors like orange cream, watermelon, mint and new strawberry mango. For a limited time, bokeh is offering listeners 15% off its best selling toothpastes on Amazon and bokeh.com with code Glennon15. That's Glennon15. Make the switch to bokeh for the whole family.
- [23:42]
Abby Wambach
Does it feel a little like a relief? Because the way that I think about it, it's like a parent going to a sports event or a soccer game and they've got to set up all the chairs just right. And they got to put the umbrella up and they got to have a little cooler of drinks and snacks and stuff. Rather than just getting to just sit on the grass and watch.
- [24:03]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [24:04]
Abby Wambach
It's like rather than rearranging stuff, you actually get to experience.
- [24:09]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [24:11]
Abby Wambach
Them.
- [24:12]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [24:12]
Abby Wambach
And it's not just watching. You get to experience seeing how they move through the world in their weird ways and p. S. Some ways. I would not move that way.
- [24:23]
Amanda Doyle
No, I would not move that way.
- [24:25]
Abby Wambach
I would not move that way. But we love that.
- [24:29]
Glennon Doyle
My analogy, I was thinking when you were like, don't fuck with the art. Is that they're gonna do their art no matter what. Right. But the difference is like you handing them a coloring book and be like, make your beautiful art here. And it might be beautiful, but the confines have already been defined. There is a ceiling to what that's gonna be, and there's security in that because you're like, well, it's not gonna be a disaster, but it's also not going to be a of their own creation.
- [24:59]
Amanda Doyle
Right.
- [24:59]
Glennon Doyle
Versus you hand them a canvas and it's like, that might not be the way I'd move. Like, it might be terrible, but it's going to be theirs. Or it might be something that is so vastly different. Better that you never could have conceived of it when you were doing the lines of the coloring book. So it's like it actually will be of them if it's of them.
- [25:22]
Amanda Doyle
Exactly.
- [25:23]
Glennon Doyle
For better or for worse.
- [25:25]
Amanda Doyle
Exactly. So on Christmas morning, I gave Abby her St. Peter's medallion with the back said, relax, I'll handle it. Relax, I'll take care of it. And Abby laughed and handed me mine. And she had a beautiful signet ring made. The beautiful opal on the front. And then engraved in the ring, it.
- [25:49]
Abby Wambach
Said onyx on the front.
- [25:52]
Amanda Doyle
Okay, right, sorry. Onyx on the front.
- [25:54]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah.
- [25:54]
Abby Wambach
I just want to be Clear.
- [25:55]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah. And then it said, engraved in tiny little letters, you can barely see it. It just says, you can't fuck with the art. And that is my 2020 vibes. And it's like I know that it's correct for me because it no longer feels punishing. It no longer feels like a correction. Like, you can't fuck with the art. It's like, you can't fuck with the art. It's like a gift to me. Guess what I get to do since I can't fuck with the art is I get to make my own art. I get to just be art. I get to not be God.
- [26:37]
Glennon Doyle
Right? You can relax.
- [26:42]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah. It's like two versions of the exact same message.
- [26:45]
Glennon Doyle
It's like the Tigs being like, nothing matters. Oh, my God.
- [26:50]
Abby Wambach
Nothing matters?
- [26:51]
Glennon Doyle
Or like nothing matters.
- [26:52]
Abby Wambach
Hooray.
- [26:53]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [26:53]
Glennon Doyle
It's like, you can't fuck with the art, Damn it. Or you can't fuck with the art.
- [26:58]
Amanda Doyle
There's another reason.
- [26:59]
Glennon Doyle
Try as you might, it's impossible. So just relax.
- [27:02]
Amanda Doyle
Because it's their art. It's their art. If we took it literally, each kid has their own easel and I'm behind them going, did you think about more red? Did you? What about green?
- [27:13]
Abby Wambach
I mean, listen, it's not easy getting you presents. And this was a big one because I had to, like, there's no take backs.
- [27:22]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [27:23]
Glennon Doyle
No take backs means that's yours for life.
- [27:26]
Amanda Doyle
My favorite. The only thing that is important about any gift that anyone gives me, my only request is that it's returnable. But I'm getting better about that too. Because this lack of can't with the art, this lack of control thing is blowing my mind every scenario. Because it's like I just figured out my new approach to life as it pertains to gifts. Is a gift, it turns out, is not something that you want and need and makes perfect sense to you that the other person has deduced and so has matched something on the list that you have created of things you want and need and nails it that way.
- [28:13]
Abby Wambach
But the list is.
- [28:13]
Glennon Doyle
And didn't share with them the list.
- [28:15]
Abby Wambach
The list is invisible and in your head.
- [28:17]
Amanda Doyle
True, true. That is because it would be a.
- [28:20]
Glennon Doyle
Bit important part of the model.
- [28:22]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah. Yes. The list is invisible. That is true. Not to me. That's a good point.
- [28:29]
Glennon Doyle
More obvious to me.
- [28:31]
Amanda Doyle
Okay. Turns out that's not what a gift is. Okay? Now the problem with that scenario is that when the thing that you receive that is clearly not from the invisible list in your head, then it is Incorrect.
- [28:46]
Glennon Doyle
The gift is insulting even.
- [28:48]
Abby Wambach
Yes.
- [28:49]
Amanda Doyle
Okay. No. A gift is something that the other person has felt would be beautiful and additive and lovely for you. It's not something that they tried to figure out necessarily from your head. It's something that came from their heart and head. So when you say, thank you so much, and then the following Tuesday, you return it, that is a bit of a rejection of their heart offering. So anyway, it's just a journey.
- [29:20]
Glennon Doyle
Are we sure?
- [29:21]
Amanda Doyle
No.
- [29:21]
Glennon Doyle
I mean, we're not.
- [29:22]
Amanda Doyle
No.
- [29:22]
Glennon Doyle
Turn it.
- [29:23]
Amanda Doyle
I'm not sure I still believe in returning, but I do think that there's space to consider this other way.
- [29:30]
Abby Wambach
You want to know a little bit of a hack that you can either share with your spouse or yourself?
- [29:37]
Amanda Doyle
Okay.
- [29:37]
Abby Wambach
And sister, I'm telling you this. A little bit of a hack prior to birthdays, gift giving moments, holidays, is have your person write out the things that they really loved about the prior year. So my mom every year asks us for a list of things that we are supposed to write down, and then she puts it on an ornament. And So I have 25, 30 of these little ornaments with all of the things that happened that year that were important to me.
- [30:09]
Glennon Doyle
That's so awesome.
- [30:10]
Abby Wambach
And so Glennon does it, and our kids do it. And I now have just hacked Glennon's gift giving, where I consult her list and I look at the things on her list as to what is the most important thing that happened to her that year. And so I had already gotten the ring going, and I had the thought, maybe this is gonna be it. But it was confirmed because she put C, F, T, A. Oh.
- [30:39]
Amanda Doyle
I was like, I did not say fuck on non.
- [30:40]
Abby Wambach
Assessment. No, you just wrote the letters.
- [30:42]
Amanda Doyle
Okay.
- [30:43]
Abby Wambach
What is that called?
- [30:44]
Amanda Doyle
The initials.
- [30:45]
Abby Wambach
Initials.
- [30:46]
Glennon Doyle
Acronym.
- [30:47]
Abby Wambach
Acronym. Yeah.
- [30:48]
Glennon Doyle
I don't know.
- [30:48]
Amanda Doyle
Whatever. The first letter of can't fuck with the art.
- [30:51]
Glennon Doyle
You are hilarious, Glenn. You really do it.
- [30:53]
Amanda Doyle
Do it.
- [30:54]
Glennon Doyle
You really think of the most important thing and send it to Nana from your year. You're like, well, I can't talk with art was a really important moment for me.
- [31:01]
Amanda Doyle
So it was, oh, my gosh.
- [31:03]
Glennon Doyle
I would have been like, spring break.
- [31:05]
Amanda Doyle
Trip to the beach.
- [31:06]
Abby Wambach
There's all of that. She usually does, like two.
- [31:09]
Glennon Doyle
Two real things.
- [31:10]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [31:11]
Amanda Doyle
Wow.
- [31:11]
Abby Wambach
And so that's when I was like, it was confirmation. And I emailed Thea and I was like, can't fuck with the art. Make it engraved, and you can't take it back. And I also learned this. Glennon just likes jewelry.
- [31:23]
Amanda Doyle
I do. I just love jewelry. I just do I just love things that are sparkly.
- [31:30]
Abby Wambach
So I get a plethora of things. I get a few things that she can take back. One thing she cannot, the main present. And then I get a few things that are kind of joint presents that we will both use. That's how I cover my basis. But evidently she's worked on herself so that, like, gift giving is no longer an issue. But it's been.
- [31:51]
Amanda Doyle
It has been. Yeah.
- [31:52]
Abby Wambach
Good job. Good job, honey.
- [31:54]
Amanda Doyle
Thank you, babe. Thank you. What about you, Sissy? What are you thinking about from this past holiday?
- [32:00]
Glennon Doyle
From this holiday? Oh, it was such a great holiday. Well, we had a really nice, long holiday. We were in your town for a week, staying at an Airbnb really close by. And that was so great because we were. It was kind of the best of both worlds. We were able to be with y'all and with all the cousins and then have our little spot for breakfast and mornings and hanging out. So that was a delight. And really, really had a great time there, and it was lovely. And then what I'm thinking about with this holiday was that we did something, like, very different, which is that after the actual holiday week, we got this idea. I don't know, it could have really broken bad, but John decided that we should take a road trip from your place up to San Francisco and stop at all these places along the way. And I was like, that sounds like something that a cool family would do. Like, so that's great. But then as it got closer, I'm like, feel like we're not like a car trip family. We don't do. I don't know what car trip families do. I feel like maybe they sing songs. This isn't gonna go well. It's like a slippery slope to camping. I. I don't know what's happening here. So I was a little bit nervous. And it was so great. You know, our kids are 12 and 10, so there was a healthy dose of the, like, God help us, whining and hating everything and nothing being good. There was that, but there was also. We spent a lot of time in the car seeing beautiful, beautiful California. It's like breaking my heart anew with all of what's happening, because I had no idea how beautiful the entire coast of California is. And I can see why people are so in love with it. But a lot of the things we did didn't cost any money. Like, we would just drive and then walk on all of these lovely piers and watch surfers surfing. And then John had researched these places where we'd pull over and there would be, like. This is a beach where there's supposed to be a lot of elephant seals. So, of course, you know, getting out of the car there, like, it's freezing.
- [34:25]
Amanda Doyle
We're gonna be in a stupid beach.
- [34:28]
Abby Wambach
Stupid.
- [34:29]
Glennon Doyle
You know? But then flash forward, like, three hours later. We are still standing there, transfixed by the elephant seals. We are laughing so hard because there's a whole. It's like Desperate Housewives of Elephant Seal Beach. There's, like, fights going on. There are two babies being born. There's one mama seal who I'm very worried because she keeps going over and attacking the other moms with the new babies. We're, like, very worried. We're, like, rooting for people. Not people, it turns out. Elephant seals.
- [34:59]
Amanda Doyle
Seals.
- [35:00]
Glennon Doyle
And the best thing about them is they're, like, gargantuan. They can be, like, £5,000. And they rush at each other like they're gonna storm another one. But they can only go, like, five paces at a time before they have to relax. So they, like, rile up, and they're huge. And then they're like, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then they, like, lay down, and it's so huge because it's like, if your ass is there 90 minutes, so help you God, by the time I get to you, it's like a game of chess. They're trying to move out of each other's way. Anyway, it was a delight. And what I realized is that the car is the best because you're stuck there. You're physically close. And I realized that in that period of time, that week that we were together in the car was probably the equivalent of a cumulative two years of our regular life. Because it's always activity after school. The weekends are divide and conquer. Someone's taking somebody, someone's taken another person. We do dinners together, but that's 30 minutes of, like, something to do and hurry up and the dishes and going to bed, she said. As if they don't go to bed like, three hours after dinner. But you know what I mean? And the thing about the time is it was, like, this opportunity to just observe. Observe them and listen to them and then, like, observe them out in the wild and just see what they're like. Because I think I don't get that experience very often. Like, I don't get to see what they're like and what they're becoming like. Alice was hilarious. Every other night, she would come up with these, like, impromptu dances in the hotel that were so funny that I Legitimately was, like, in pain because she was so funny. I did not know how funny she was. You know, you just don't. They're becoming something, and you don't catch up to understanding who they are. And then we were at New Year's. We had ordered in food for New Year's Eve. Bobby and I had gone down to the lobby to try to meet the guy. Cause we wanted to save him the trip up to the hotel room. We missed him somehow. And he was already, like, trying to navigate this behemoth hotel and finding our room. He found our room and delivered it while we were still downstairs. And Bobby was like, man, this guy is out here working so hard so we can have, like, a relaxing celebration of a new year. And that's like, man. And he. So he saw the guy when he was leaving the hotel to go back to his car. And he walked up to him and he pulled, like, 10 bucks out of his own wallet and was like, thank you so much, man. And I was just like, you know what? The kids are all right. They're fine. That wasn't just, like, an example, but just seeing how they are in the world. And I think that it's just giving me this kind of jolt of peace. Because I think that a lot of my anxiety throughout the year and kind of these, like, high highs and low lows is this idea of, are they okay? Do they know what they need to know? Are they acting right? Is it gonna be all right? Am I doing enough, you know, to show them how to grow. Grow into who they're going to be? And I think that might be what a lot of our anxiety is coming from. Like, those of us who don't want to make our kids into, like, superstars, who just want to, like, make sure they're decent, good people who are being who they should be in terms of, like, expressing who they are in the world. And just having that time to see them how they are was very calming. Because it was like, I don't have to search for those crumbs of clues all day, every day. I can just be like, yeah, they are right. I really like them. I like these kids. They're great. They're funny as shit. They're interesting. They've got good hearts. And I don't have to ride the high, high and the low low of the inevitable reports that will come unto me throughout the year. I can just kind of coast the wave and be like, we're gonna be all right.
- [39:32]
Amanda Doyle
Dang.
- [39:32]
Glennon Doyle
We know what we know, and things are good.
- [39:35]
Amanda Doyle
That's so good.
- [39:36]
Glennon Doyle
And so that was a real blessing of that time. You know, you don't realize that the time, the little pockets of time you might be really hungry for, that kind of knowledge about your kid and not.
- [39:50]
Amanda Doyle
Even know really gives you a different idea of what those times are for. Because we can be like, oh, what is a vacation for? It's for seeing cool things or this experience or that experience or this experience or that outward experience. But it's like actually just an opportunity to see each other. It doesn't really matter what you're doing. It's like the seventh day, like every day. You're creating these universes for your kids and that time is the seventh day where you get to look at each other and say, oh, it's good, it's good. And how cool to think that the kids might be having that experience with you and John, that the whole rest of their lives, all our kids see us swirling and whirling and working and worrying and whatever. And what if they're in their little beds going, it's good to see Mom's all right. Did you see her? She's funny. Did you see that dance she did? Did you see, like, how dad was, like, relaxing with Mom? Did you see how I'm glad I got to actually see them for who they are as people and not just their roles. They could be having the exact same experience with different language in their little heads, of course.
- [40:55]
Glennon Doyle
Do you know that that is exactly. I hadn't thought of that, but one of the kids buddies came over last week and was talking about vacation dad and was like, it's really special when we go away because he makes dinner, he laughs, he jokes. And that is the only time that that happens. And think about, like, if you didn't have those couple of weeks of the year, you would think, my dad is someone who is so serious and so stressed and that is who he is. Not like, that is who he is under pressure, in a high pressure position, which he happens to be in for this decade. You would think that he's a monolith. Right? So that's a challenge too, I'm sure, to parents to try to figure out how to show the other sides of them more often. But also for this kid to be like, oh, wait, there's a lot more to my person. And I can see that. I can glimpse that in these periods of time.
- [42:04]
Amanda Doyle
Foreign.
- [42:09]
Abby Wambach
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- [42:42]
Amanda Doyle
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- [43:51]
Abby Wambach
I want to talk a little bit about the story you told about Bobby. I don't know about you guys, but for me, you could be a terrible student. And if you have that heart and mind where you're paying attention and then also deducing and figuring out, wait, today's New Year's Eve. I mean, he's 12. That is so incredible to me that, like, obviously people would think that sports are really important, be a terrible athlete. But be that. That's something I want to, like, see. And I just think that, God, that's so cool that you were able to create a space to do the doordash thing. Because, like, I also think it's important for kids to, like, see that stuff. So often. The food just shows up on the table.
- [44:42]
Glennon Doyle
They don't understand magic. No one's working for it. Nobody likes imagining in your life everyone else is sitting on a hotel bed having a nice meal tonight. No, they're not.
- [44:51]
Abby Wambach
Yeah, exactly. So I need to, like, call Bobby out. Like, good job, man. I'm gonna text him later. Not about this. Just, like, I think you're cool.
- [44:59]
Amanda Doyle
He is so cool. Which one of our kids the other day said, the best thing about Christmas is the resurgence of the cousin group chat. I mean, Bobby on the cousin group chat is just.
- [45:10]
Glennon Doyle
He abuses the privilege. He is so happy to have access to big kids to tell things to. I'm like, the ratio of Bobby to cous texts must be like 10 to 1.
- [45:21]
Amanda Doyle
So good. Bobby's the connector. It makes me sad that we all have these necessary selves that we only get to show each other our relaxed, joyful selves two weeks a year. It's just sucks. I'm not saying that I know a better system, but it does make me think of, you know, the religion, like the Judaism that has the Sabbath. It would be beautiful family ritual to carve out. To not wait for one week a year where we get to be our real selves. Like to carve out times more frequently where we get to be our relaxed, connected selves.
- [45:58]
Abby Wambach
Let's do like one day a month.
- [46:01]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, that's cool.
- [46:02]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, a lay in a couch. And what's cool about it is because it was in the doing nothing of the thing.
- [46:10]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [46:10]
Glennon Doyle
It's just hearing their reactions to things. Or I mean even just like Bobby's little thing under his breath and we'd go see something and he's like, I don't know what. Bobby and Alice think it's that cool. That was so weird. And I'm like, I think that was so weird too. Why did we even go there? It's just like discovering the things that you like connect with one kid or the other. We think of it as quote unquote, doing nothing, but you're actually doing something. You're being like, what are you like now? Because when you think of the lives of people, six months is a long ass time of change and development and way they are. It would be cool.
- [46:50]
Amanda Doyle
Beautiful idea. It's also like a shout out to simpler vacations because, oh, you can really just recreate your family trauma with a vacation. If it's all, then we have to do this and then we have to do this and then we have to be there and then we have. And then you're just like bringing your hustle self to the thing. So like, if this is your goal, the seeing each other and the being in the moment, then less might be more.
- [47:12]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, I think that's right. There's something about the movement too. Because even if you go somewhere and you unpack, you're like, well, here we are. I guess you'll sit in that room and I'll sit in this room. There's something about the confined space of the car and the movement where you're like, we're all going a place together now. Look at us. Go to a place and we're all within like a six corner square feet.
- [47:32]
Amanda Doyle
You don't have time to settle into a system or the same ecosystem. You don't have enough time.
- [47:36]
Glennon Doyle
One room. There's one ass hotel room. We are one group right now.
- [47:40]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [47:41]
Abby Wambach
And you're stuck in the car and you run out of things to think about. Oftentimes in your own city, you're thinking about your own stuff or whatever. The phone gets tiring or whatever. And so you actually just start talking to each other.
- [47:55]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah.
- [47:56]
Amanda Doyle
And you're not in fight or flight with your parents because you're not staring at them.
- [47:59]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [47:59]
Amanda Doyle
Dinner tables and couches. When you're making eye contact, all the kids just freak. Which is hilarious that we have all of our, like, family meetings in that structure because no one can talk.
- [48:08]
Glennon Doyle
Yep.
- [48:09]
Abby Wambach
We should sit in a circle.
- [48:10]
Amanda Doyle
We should get in the car. Get in the car, sit in a.
- [48:12]
Glennon Doyle
Circle, facing out or on a couch, just all looking, facing the tv. And then eventually you can turn the TV on. But like, no one has to look at each other and confront each other. Like an elephant seal.
- [48:23]
Amanda Doyle
Exactly. Or like we just do it through our dogs. Honey, do you think that Abby's upset? Like, if you were. What? Yeah, we just talked through all of our feelings.
- [48:32]
Glennon Doyle
Would you feel unappreciated, honey, if no one ever.
- [48:36]
Amanda Doyle
All right. I love you both.
- [48:38]
Abby Wambach
Love you too.
- [48:40]
Amanda Doyle
You can't with the art, can you? No, you can't. Fuck.
- [48:43]
Abby Wambach
Go on a road trip. I want to go on a road trip. That actually got me excited about a road trip.
- [48:47]
Amanda Doyle
Take it easy. We love you. We can do hard things. See you soon. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to we can do hard things. Following the POD helps you because you'll never miss an episode. And it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on Follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We can do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner and Bill Schultz.