Glennon Doyle (2:51)

Okay. I'm sure it's been hard for Amma, too. I know I've been struggling. Okay, now that's enough setting the scene for Abby to take over.

Abby Wambach (3:04)

Yeah. So Yesterday's game, Ammo was playing. I had to get on a zoom call. So I was in the parking lot and I was missing the first half because of this call. I get a phone call from Glennon that like breaks through the zoom and I was like, oh. And so I swiped up to check my text and Glennon said, am is on the ground. She hasn't moved in two minutes. I end my zoom call and I just start hauling ass to the field. Now, to preface this, Glennon, throughout this, this early part of the season, because Emma has been, I wouldn't say targeted, but she's been scouted as one of the best players in the way that the other teams defend against her. Sometimes there's two players, sometimes it's their biggest and strongest player. So she's, she's gotten a little beaten up over the last couple of, of of weeks of the season. If I were an opposing coach, I would probably do the exact same thing, like, oh, this is their strongest player. We have to play her very physical. We've got to play her hard, get her off her game, let the other, all the other players try to beat us, right? So before Glennon gets out of the car and I got on my zoom call, I say to Glennon, because she's going to be now by herself sitting in the stands.

Amanda Doyle (4:16)

I feel which is the most dangerous part of this scenario right now. It's not Emma on the ground, it's Glennon unattended, looking at Emma on the ground.

Abby Wambach (4:24)

Yes, I often have to remind Glennon, she's okay, it's okay. The referee called it, that wasn't a foul. You know, these sorts of things. Glennon gets very animated in protection of Ameth. There's something that, like motherhood, animalisticness comes over her. And so I get it. But as she was leaving, cuz I knew she was going to be by herself. I say to Glennon, famous last words. I said, honey, Emma can take care of herself. She's gonna be okay.

Glennon Doyle (4:55)

Every time someone tells me it's gonna be okay, it's a dirty lie.

Abby Wambach (5:00)

It's not true. Every once in a while, it's not true. Every once in a while, the world takes over anyway. I end the zoom. I take the phone call as I'm running, and she said she's been down for three minutes now, please, like, get out there, like, do something. And so I run straight out into the field and Amma's on her front side and cannot move. So I'm trying to assess the situation. Emma says, I Broke my collarbone. I heard it crack. Everybody heard it crack. The refs heard it crack. And I'm like, okay. And so I just kind of poke around. I touch her neck. I ask if anything else is hurt. And she said, no. In these circumstances, when a kid is immobile, you want to make sure that they. It's nothing with their spine. So I did that quick analysis, and she said, it's just my collarbone. She was very upset and very in pain. We get her rolled over and we sit her up. And, you know, luckily, with the collarbone, it's just upper body, so you can walk. And we walked to the car and went to the doctors.

Glennon Doyle (6:06)

We got her to the doctor, and they took an X ray, and it's completely broken the collarbone. And so she's out for eight weeks, and she's in so much pain upstairs. And it's just. It reminds me of when our oldest was young and we put him in sports. He kept stopping to help people up, and he kept giving the ball to people on the other team if they really wanted it.

Amanda Doyle (6:33)

I did a quick calculation, and they have more heart in this than I do.

Glennon Doyle (6:36)

Yeah. He felt like if his team had had it for long enough that he should give it anyway. When we talked to him about this, he said, well, I just, you know, in his little way, he said basically, like. But we always talk about sharing. So now I'm supposed to not. And he couldn't figure out how to switch his whole, like, way of being to a different set of rules. And I think when you're a parent of a kid on a field that gets super physical, it feels like that. It feels like it's been my job to protect the. This kid forever, and now suddenly, during these two hours, I'm supposed to convince my body that it's okay. And also, high school sports I have found to be scarier than even club high school sports. To me, I love the camaraderie and the coaching and the feeling of it, but the actual games feel like the wild west because the skill levels are lower and the referees are less qualified.

Amanda Doyle (7:32)

It's, like, out of control.

Glennon Doyle (7:34)

Literally, it feels out of control, which scares the crap out of.

Abby Wambach (7:37)

There's some kids who've never played the sport. For the most part, it's an amazing experience for these kids to get them to learn how to play sports. But every once in a while, things that like this that happen because you have such a disparity between a player like Emma who knows how to move her body, and generally how the play is supposed to go versus a player who may not understand how to not go into a tackle when you're a couple seconds late. Like it happened to her yesterday. I really just think it's a kid who doesn't. She doesn't play soccer very often. She's not trying to break Emma. Like, I know that, but there was.

Amanda Doyle (8:11)

No play on the ball like this. This is what I just wanna. I know I don't know about these things. What you're saying is we have to suspend reality. Like, if someone attacks my child in any other context other than this socially sanctioned context, I'm supposed to be really upset. But in this one, I'm supposed to be really cool about it and be like, things happen. So that's so strange to me. Because a certain thing that happens in a particular context, we have decided there's rules around it. If you punch someone on the street, they press charges, you're going to jail. If a kid tackles and breaks a bone of a kid unprovoked on the street, there's going to be charges. If it's in a game, we are all supposed to say, well, we signed up for this. I understand if you're making a play on the ball. What I saw in that video clip was not a play on the ball. On the ball. I saw someone. I am presuming, these are my inferences and based on what has happened, game over, game was told, make sure to isolate that player. We have decided that's okay to do. So that girl was doing her job, right? Someone told her to do that, she did it. And that resulted in an injury to Emma. So what I'm saying is that will continue to happen. Things continue to happen unless there are consequences for things that happen. If we all just continue to say that's what it is, that's what we signed up for, then those types of injuries will continue to happen.

Abby Wambach (9:44)

The problem with this theory though, the referee, and God bless the referees, because none of us want to actually referee. The referees are the ones that didn't handle that interaction correctly.

Amanda Doyle (9:54)

But that's on a case by case basis. I'm talking about a systemic. Like if coaches who are the ones who either tacitly accept that their players go out and take on without a play on the ball, the best player on the other team risking a major injury or who directly tell them to do it don't have consequences, then it will continue to happen. And we'll continue to say it's on a case by case referee. It doesn't matter if that referee had Intervened there. She would have still broken her collarbone in that instance.

Glennon Doyle (10:25)

Like if it were in a professional league, even if the ref didn't call it, they would review that play. There would be enough uprising that. Like what used to happen when you played Abby, like, the ref missed a horrible thing that somebody did to you. A dirty, dirty hit. The ref missed it. They got so much backlash because the crowd saw it that they reviewed the play afterward. And there was a system that stepped in that said, oh, yeah, sometimes the ref's gonna miss something, but the system sees it and that person got consequences. Correct.

Abby Wambach (10:59)

Yeah. But I do think that the systemic issues that you're talking about are indicated by the individual case by case bases that do happen. So let's just play it out right? Like, let's say the referee handled it correct and gave her a red card, right? Yes, Emma would still be injured, but that changes that player forever. Like when you get sent off and you are punished in the moment for something and a player does get injured, that does change the way that you go into that. There is this weird gray area. And I understand what you're saying, sister. We've talked to Ameth today about it. Like, do you want to do anything about this? And she's like, no.

Glennon Doyle (11:38)

She said something that I keep thinking about last night. I was upset about it and said something and we were all in bed together. She, like, we were all four of us, me, Abby, Emma, Chase were all laying in bed and the dogs, and the dogs with her. And then her friends came and brought her three little. Her three little best friends from high school brought her little treats. And they were all in the bedroom with us. It was kind of insane, actually. I said something about how bad it was. And I said, I wonder if they're going to talk to the other coach. And Amma said, you know, mom, it's just like when you're on the field, weird parts of your personality come out. And it was like she was trying to teach me that, like, it happens to her too. Something that I didn't understand happens on the field where, like, parts of yourself that you don't know or like or can come out. I don't know. I don't know. I also just think it's like a macro situation. I'm so sick of people not being punished for freaking breaking rules. Country. Everything feels like the wild West. And it feels like a hard time to protect your family or your kids or anything from anyone. And there's something that's going on in my body that is just Reacting on all the levels. But shout out to the parents who have kids in sports. It's not.

Amanda Doyle (12:58)

It's awful is what it is.

Glennon Doyle (12:59)

It's awful.

Abby Wambach (13:00)

It's awful.

Amanda Doyle (13:02)

Half the time I want to just stand up in the middle and being like, we're doing this on purpose for the purposes of fun. That's what we're allegedly doing. And I'm looking around and all the parents either look pissed that their kid isn't playing, pissed that they're not playing like they should be because of all the training and the money that they put into them. Mad at the coach for running a play. The coaches are mad at the kids that I'm like, this is an elective thing in our lives. This is something that no one has to do.

Abby Wambach (13:33)

Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (13:33)

And we're all came here to do it. And raise your hand if any of you are having fun.

Abby Wambach (13:39)

I know, but here's the problem with what you're saying, sissy. It has absolutely nothing to do with us as parents. It's the kids.

Amanda Doyle (13:47)

No, it has everything to do with us in its current regime. In its current regime. It has everything to do with a parent trying to have their kid live vicariously, trying to prove their family worthy, trying to gather whatever social capital the parents can get from the child until they go on to get their higher levels of social capital through their degrees and their money and their whatever it is the deliverance to the parents from the child to show that they are doing a good job and their family's on top. That is what's happening in this environment.

Glennon Doyle (14:20)

We should just. You know how like sometimes I've these sports people, they do their. Their game. But then there's watch parties in other places. I feel like maybe parents should only be allowed to do that. Like parents shouldn't even be able to be there.

Abby Wambach (14:33)

That's actually a really good.

Glennon Doyle (14:34)

Just a watch party where if you are behaved and there should be referees also at the watch party for parental behavior. And it's just like yellow cards and red cards and you just. Only there's two parents left at the end.

Abby Wambach (14:46)

In some clubs here in Southern California, they do silent Saturdays where the parents are banned from speaking on the sidelines. And this, it's like this really beautiful thing that ends up happening where you, the kid, the parents can actually hear their kids for the first time. I think that that's an interesting experiment.

Glennon Doyle (15:04)

So anyway, that's what we have.

Amanda Doyle (15:06)

So anyway, that's why we're in soft pants and not as positive as we wanted to be Anyway. Here's to 2026, Chee.

Abby Wambach (15:14)

But by the way, she's gonna be fine, okay? She doesn't need surgery. And I. I meant it then, and I mean it now. Her body will heal. Sports, they're inherently dangerous. There's things that happen, and we can't control the outcomes. But what we can do is just know that she's a tough cookie. She's handling it, and she's. She's gonna get through this. And so are we.

Glennon Doyle (15:38)

I feel like people should not break my child's bones and that. I feel like that should be a mountain I can die on. But, no, it's not. It's a sad thing to watch your kid be in pain.

Abby Wambach (15:51)

It really is just. Yeah, it's a toughie.

Glennon Doyle (15:54)

Oh, okay.

Abby Wambach (15:55)

But we're gonna be okay.

Glennon Doyle (15:57)

Here we go. New year, same us. Let's walk this incredible pod squad through what we're planning and dreaming and intending for our work and our lives in 2026 and what they can expect here. And before we do that, because Abby always talks about how, especially in our family, we don't do enough like recapping or celebrating. Celebrating before we move on to a new thing. So let us discuss what we are proudest about or most grateful or however you want to frame it for what we have done on the podcast so far. One thing that I'm really proud of, from our whole team, mostly the people who have been on this project from the beginning have been in the trenches the most are you and me and Amanda and Allison, and then Audrey came in and really helped over the last couple years. I'm proud of a couple things. One being that we have done it. I didn't even know. Most other podcasts our size have, like, full teams of producers who do a lot of the guest deciding, shaping of episodes and the questions and all of that. I didn't know that that's how it went till recently. And because of that ignorance, and also because of, I think the fact that we feel unable to put anything out in the world that didn't come from, like, the depths of our guts and hearts and brains, that we probably couldn't do it any other way. But the fact that we have really created and curated every bit, every minute ourselves of this project makes me really proud. And secondly, our commitment to the particular voices that we've decided to highlight on this pod. We, from the very beginning, five years ago, decided we are not going to default to the voices that are the easiest to grab, that are the most celebrated, that are the go tos for most media places, we are going to find the best voices, not just the most visible. And because of our commitment to finding the best voices, I guess best isn't a good word. I shouldn't use that. Most resonant, most soulful, most expert.

Amanda Doyle (18:27)

Necessary.

Glennon Doyle (18:29)

Yeah, necessary. The kind of voices where you listen to them and you think that that is not bullshit, that is real, that is lived experience, that is truth. And we do that over and over again knowing that it will be a harder climb for us. That, like, there are certain voices that you plug into a show or a podcast that immediately gets millions of downloads because that people want what they know already. I mean, I think we've. In 500 episodes, we've had five straight white guys on our podcast.

Abby Wambach (19:08)

Wow.

Glennon Doyle (19:09)

And we should mention the independent part. The Pod squad doesn't even know this. And we can go into this another time. But what we've gone through behind the scenes, because of the way we have chosen to use our voices in this moment, and because we have continued to be political, because we have continued to speak out consistently, and because we have continued to speak out about specific things like Palestine, we have experienced career changing effects from that which we knew would happen beforehand. And we decided we are the people that should be doing that. We can withstand career shifting dynamics. And so we went into that intentionally. We regret nothing. We're proud of all of it. We left a network, we went completely independent, we spent a year learning how to podcast runs, how advertises happen, how production happened, and we deconstructed our entire lives and jobs and took it all in house and started producing it completely ourselves. Well, with the help of Silver Tribe too. And that's. I'm proud of us for that too.

Amanda Doyle (20:18)

It was about four months ago that we made that shift. I mean, it feels like it dovetails with. Something that I'm most gratified by, by the podcast, is that it felt like everything we did was because we were going through something we needed to learn about, something to make sense of our lives or to the world around us. I can't sleep until I figure this out or I am really struggling with this relationally, or I need. I've started doing ifs in therapy and I need more of it. I need to understand it because it feels like it's something real or I just read this book and it changed everything about how I feel. And I. We need to talk about it. What was so special about this whole process up to now is it feels like it is what we needed, which is Selfish in a way, and also very affirming to know that those deepest personal struggles are also what our people needed to hear. When we meet listeners or on the tour or just in our inbox or our voicemails, when people say thank you, that is what I needed to hear. Or that changed something for me. Or I've been dying to talk about that thing. Thank you for having the conversations no one else is having. It's like, oh, wait, we're all like little streams that are going into this same river. We feel like we're all struggling individually or all grappling with a particular question, or something is plaguing us, and it's very, very similar. And so that makes me feel hopeful and it makes me feel less alone, and it makes me feel part of this collective. For me, what feels most gratifying is that what I hear from listeners in terms of what our podcast does for them is the same thing that it does for me. And that their existence and they're saying that is the same thing that I am thankful for from them. Because saying hearing you talk about this makes me feel less alone. It makes me feel less alone to know that the response is so resonant. Like, it just gives me hope. It's not each of us, like, struggling individually in our houses when we can share with each other. It is all of us struggling. And when we can struggle together is when we can start to fix some of these things. Because when we're all struggling together in the pursuit of the same solidarity and solution is when we start to have progress in things. That has been really encouraging and hopeful and powerful for me to hear.

Glennon Doyle (23:01)

It's interesting because that's why the producing it ourselves and not having an outside. That's why people feel that, because it is happening in us first before it happens out of us. And that's why it's real. Like, that's why I can never imagine just, like, showing up and it being like, here's your things, here's your guests, here's your questions. It has to come from the inside out in order for it to get to other people's insides.

Abby Wambach (23:29)

It's very similar to my experience because I'm thinking back the last five years of doing this with you all, and it wasn't my intention. I didn't set out to feel this way five years later. What it has done for me is it has allowed me to heal parts of myself that I didn't know I needed to heal. You know, one of the biggest problems I had being a soccer Player is. It felt so singularly focused on just one thing for so long, and that's what this person needed to do in order to be at the level that I was at for so long. But it always made me question all the other parts of myself that I had not underdeveloped, but just not developed. And so, like, this show has allowed me and given me the space and the environment and the education and the people and the conversation to help heal myself in order to kind of come full circle, to realize and really open myself back up to getting into the sports world again.

Glennon Doyle (24:42)

That's so cool.

Abby Wambach (24:43)

It's been something I've been thinking about. Like, I really wanted to be a good parent and I really wanted to be a good wife. And, you know, untamed came out and you were working really hard. So we made a collective decision as a family that, like, I would be a little bit more like, homebound and home minded and kid. Not that you weren't, because you were doing everything like you always do, but that I would try to hold up the house. What are they? What is the saying? Keep the keepers burning.

Glennon Doyle (25:12)

Fires burning.

Abby Wambach (25:14)

Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (25:14)

Is that a sex thing? Hold down the fort.

Abby Wambach (25:16)

Hold down the fort. Yeah, that's what it is.

Glennon Doyle (25:18)

Yeah.

Abby Wambach (25:18)

Now I'm just like, wow. I now stepping back into the women's sports world with the new podcast. What I am noticing in myself that I've learned from this podcast is, oh, my gosh, Abby, you don't have to do everything like you did. Then. There are things for me in the sports world and then there are things that also are not for me that I don't need to participate in. I don't have to say yes to everything. Like, I did feel like I needed to back 10 years ago. Now this re entering into the women's sports world, into the sports world, really, I feel a little bit taller and I feel a little bit more healed. I feel healed in a way that I can interact with sports and bring this, this, all the parts of myself with me.

Glennon Doyle (26:04)

Wow.

Abby Wambach (26:05)

Yeah.

Glennon Doyle (26:06)

It's so cool to see, like, Chase was saying the other day that he wants to have a life where all of the parts of himself have room to exist. And it felt like, it feels like now you are reactivating that huge part of yourself that is so. I mean, you're like, so smiley right now. And like, I don't know, it's just great. It's really great fun.

Abby Wambach (26:31)

And here's the thing, for the folks listening, sports are political. They are inherently political. Like, watching women's sports. Watching people go out there and be powerful and compete against each other and be like, hardcore and badass and incredible. We women are always fighting for something, whether it's better pay or better CBA agreements or better treatment. Like, whatever it is, every time you watch a women's sporting event, you are voting for people who are fighting for. For freedom and to have an existence and to be respected and like the WNBA and the NWSL and love B Volleyball, like, women's sports is not just having a moment because, oh, my God, this has been a thing that's been collectively happening over time. And I missed it. I missed it so much, and I miss my friends so much.

Glennon Doyle (27:21)

So that's wonderful.

Abby Wambach (27:23)

Yeah. Thanks for this whole thing. Like, thanks to the pod squad. I've been on this healing journey with you. Is there something in your life that, I mean, I kind of turned my back on sports. It was almost a necessity that I had to literally turn my back on it. I just couldn't even see it. I didn't even want, you know, anyways.

Glennon Doyle (27:44)

I feel like when you get out of anything super, super intense, that's almost cult like, in its demand for your full being. You know, our kids are obsessed with. They constantly watch the Kimmy Schmidt show. And I feel like when you guys retire, you're like mole women. Like, you, like, come out of the. Of the bunker and you're like, wait, what's going on out here? Like, what has everyone else been doing? And maybe it requires a bit of time, like you said, to reactivate all the parts of yourself and work on or allow to breathe the parts you had to shut down to be great, to be focused enough to be great.

Abby Wambach (28:26)

Yeah.

Glennon Doyle (28:26)

And now you're like a full self coming back and you're relaxed about it. There's no scarcity involved in it. You're not trying to win anything.

Amanda Doyle (28:34)

But it feels like a relationship where if you get out of a relationship where you lost yourself in it, then you think, I can't be in a relationship. It's like the idea that, like, if you go back into relationship, that is what happens to me in relationships is that I lose myself. And so therefore, I'm going to do all of these other things but not pursue relationship. But when that healing happens, like what you're talking about, Abby, I think what happened is not that you could trust sport, but that you could trust yourself.

Abby Wambach (29:07)

That's right.

Amanda Doyle (29:08)

To remain whole inside of anything.

Abby Wambach (29:10)

That's right.

Amanda Doyle (29:11)

And so you were able to go back in and say, I will go back into a relationship, because I know I can trust myself to be with myself and to say yes to what I want and no to what I don't want and be part of it. And so I think that makes a lot of sense, and I think it happens to a lot of us. It happens in a thousand different ways. I am losing myself in work, so I have to quit this job. I can't deal with, like, the friction with my parents and the tension and the control, and so I'm gonna cut them off. It's hard for us to. To be ourselves inside of things that are unwieldy.

Abby Wambach (29:49)

Yes. We. We make that the problem. And so we get. We cut that part out so that. That is no longer the problem. But what my healing has taught me is, especially with my addiction at the end of my career and the anxiety and the pressures that I was dealing with, I wasn't able to handle all of that. Me, myself. It wasn't the drinking. It wasn't the soccer. It was me. And so now with this, like, healed, you're totally right. Like, with this more grounded, healed version of myself going back in. I trust myself. You're totally right. I like that you spun it that way. That's like, the right way. Good job, sissy.

Glennon Doyle (30:29)

Okay, so you're gonna be doing the sports, and we're really excited about that.

Abby Wambach (30:33)

Yeah, I know. I keep telling Glenn and all about it. We were watching a game the other day, volleyball.

Glennon Doyle (30:38)

Have you ever watched a women's volleyball game? I've never have. I was minding my own.

Amanda Doyle (30:43)

Did you watch Texas and Nebraska?

Glennon Doyle (30:46)

That's what we were watching.

Amanda Doyle (30:47)

Yeah.

Abby Wambach (30:47)

Texas A and M. Nebraska. Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (30:49)

Yeah. Because Texas played Wisconsin. Texas different than Texas A and M. Yeah. They're very particular about that in Texas.

Glennon Doyle (30:54)

They are.

Abby Wambach (30:54)

Yes.

Glennon Doyle (30:55)

That was incredible. Yeah.

Amanda Doyle (30:57)

Damn.

Abby Wambach (30:58)

Big upset.

Glennon Doyle (30:59)

Also, before we move on from volleyball, I realized what I love about volleyball. Very intense. Your heart is up and down. They are flailing themselves about the teams don't touch each other.

Abby Wambach (31:10)

That was a big revelation for the.

Glennon Doyle (31:12)

Teams do not have access to each other's bodies. They can't. When the ref turns around, they can't shove them down. They can't break their collarbones. They can't do shit to each other because they have very smartly put a net between them. And this is what I like about it.

Amanda Doyle (31:34)

Volleyball, Sports with boundaries.

Glennon Doyle (31:37)

Exactly. Come on. We need a net in the middle of the soccer field, and they're just allowed to kick back and forth the ball. And now it's time to thank the companies who allow you to listen to we can do hard things for free.

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Glennon Doyle (33:22)

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Abby Wambach (33:58)

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Amanda Doyle (35:14)

So I think one of the coolest parts about going independent is that before it felt like our schedule was being kind of pushed by a system that wanted to maximize advertising, maximize returns, and wasn't really as much in sync with what was in sync to us and what we feel like is probably in sync to everyday life for our listeners. And so part of going independent was in a way to match what we are putting out in the world with the rhythm that we have in us and not just doing more and more and more for more sake. So what we want to do is less quantity, more quality, more intention, less just amount of things. And so that has been a really cool part of what this independent process has been that we get today. Actually, we think one podcast a week is in line with what people can consume. The last goddamn thing we need to do is make people feel like a failure in more parts of their lives. Like, if you're behind in every part of your life, let you not be behind and we can do our things. Like, we cannot be on that shame cycle with you. So we would like to lighten your load and give you one hour a week that you can really marinate in and give you something to think about without overloading you in a world that always just wants more, more, more and more of everything. So we are going to be doing one podcast a week on Tuesdays. We are going to have one a month that is new and kind of what's going on personally with all of us. We are going to have two podcasts that are the conversations we've had that talk to this moment. Because during that time when we were being kind of pressured to do three podcasts a week, we know that those were not getting to people the way that we wanted them to. And some of those were our richest, most beautiful conversations that are really speaking to this moment. And we, we want folks to be able to listen to those and then.

Abby Wambach (37:37)

Drum roll, please. Drum roll, please.

Amanda Doyle (37:41)

Was that a drum roll? That was not a drum roll.

Glennon Doyle (37:43)

Unlinked at thumb. Thank You.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (37:45)

Oh, that was a much better drum roll. Thank you.

Amanda Doyle (37:49)

And then one podcast a week I'm really excited about because I have asked for the opportunity to do one that is essentially. You won't believe this bullshit.

Glennon Doyle (38:03)

Okay.

Amanda Doyle (38:03)

Is the oh, my gosh, I'm so excited concept behind it. I want to talk about things that we just kind of accept as true and natural and just part of life, but that have always had a story behind them, but we have never heard that story and who that story serves and who it hurts. It's like all of society is like a Jenga tower, and. And once you start tugging on a few seemingly inconsequential pieces, it feels like this isn't made of anything sturdy. I really love just picking one thing and being like, what does this one phenomenon, this one thing that we don't spend a lot of time thinking about, but we just receive as inevitable? What does it mean about our lives and our societies and our own choices and how we can make things better? I'm excited by how excited I am about it. Like, I want to do one on. Why are billionaires. Like, yes, it's like Real Housewives meets the History Channel is what I'm going for.

Abby Wambach (39:13)

Oh, my God.

Amanda Doyle (39:14)

Who they are, how we created them, because they're a creation of us. Like with our tax dollars and our sweat and our labor. Why we idolize them instead of questioning why the hell we're subsidizing them. How they are actually running our country and how wealth inequality is actually a cornerstone of destabilizing society. So why we should care about them even though we think we only care about them, to idolize them. I want to talk about just random shit. Priest celibacy. We're like, that's just a thing. That's a thing that always has been. But no, it wasn't a thing. It was only a thing until the church decided that they wanted to not pay for the priestly families and wanted to keep the land within the church, the carbon footprint, which is. We're all supposed to be tiptoeing around our carbon footprint, but how that term was actually invented by bp, the oil and gas empire. They invented it and to promote it throughout our society to make us believe that we individually are responsible for decimating the planet. Except for the fact that 75% of climate change is actually committed by 90 companies. Nine. Zero.

Abby Wambach (40:23)

Wow.

Amanda Doyle (40:24)

So instead of going after the 90 companies that produce 75%, you're supposed to make sure you compost.

Glennon Doyle (40:30)

Okay.

Amanda Doyle (40:31)

That's what I want to talk about. I want to talk about terms that we use all the time, like the Middle East. The Middle east, that's just a place we know. That's a place that is only the Middle east because Britain brutally colonialized the entire planet and it was Middle east of them. But we're still calling the Middle east the Middle east, like banana Republic, which is because Guatemala fought this huge revolution to try to finally establish democratic governance. But because that democratic governance threatened the profits of the United Fruit company, which owned 3.5 million acres in Central America, these United States of America sent the CIA in to topple the democratic regime in 1954 so that the United Fruit Company could keep its products. That's why we call them banana republics.

Abby Wambach (41:20)

What?

Amanda Doyle (41:21)

Like just how working moms right now. Working moms right now work more time with their household and their childcare than stay at home moms did in the 70s. And that's why we're all so fucking crazy. I just want to talk about all of the things that are like, these are real things. This is why this place is insane. These are the Jenga pieces that we can pull out. We can build a little bit stronger, sturdier places by knowing little bits of history, by naming the rules that are unspoken rules, and by deciding we're not going to do that shit anymore.

Abby Wambach (41:57)

I love this so much. Like, I could listen to you just keep going on and on and on about all of that.

Glennon Doyle (42:05)

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Abby Wambach (42:13)

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Amanda Doyle (43:16)

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Amanda Doyle (43:33)

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Glennon Doyle (44:22)

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Amanda Doyle (45:30)

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Amanda Doyle (45:39)

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Glennon Doyle (46:21)

If anyone hasn't seen the video that Amanda did on Thanksgiving, you should go to her social media and just see this video she made that I think, you know, a lot of people call the epitome of creativity. Taking two disparate things and seeing how they're connected and showing people these are not isolated things. These are connected to each other. I think that that video where you explain how the genocides of today are connected to the genocide that led to the creation of this country and how connected they are. And when you said, like, the. Anyway, just go see that. Because I feel like on Amanda's IG page. Yeah. That is, like, what you do so brilliantly, and that's why it went so crazy and changed people's day and week. And I think that this show will do that. And it gives, like, space to all your fire and your wisdom and your brilliance and your creativity. And I'm. Are you gonna call it? You won't believe this bullshit.

Amanda Doyle (47:22)

I don't know.

Glennon Doyle (47:23)

So good.

Amanda Doyle (47:24)

I don't know. Maybe.

Glennon Doyle (47:25)

I love that.

Abby Wambach (47:26)

But, sister, I just want to make the plaid squad know that they will be able to find it here.

Amanda Doyle (47:31)

Oh, yeah. It's just gonna be a monthly we can do our things show is going to be on some kind of, like, taking some little cultural or historic moment and. And teaching us the real thing behind it that we were never taught and connecting it to our daily lives, like, how it impacts how we actually operate in the world.

Abby Wambach (47:55)

So freaking.

Glennon Doyle (47:55)

Do you feel nervous about it at all or only excited?

Amanda Doyle (47:59)

I feel skyded.

Glennon Doyle (48:00)

Sky did.

Amanda Doyle (48:01)

It feels a little vulnerable. You know, if you say you're. We can do our things, people are like, yes, please, I want to come on your. But I'm like, it's just me. Will you come and talk to me? And I feel a little vulnerable about it. And then I feel like, will people like it? But I. I don't know. I hope so.

Abby Wambach (48:18)

If you ever want to ask me, I'm going to always say yes.

Amanda Doyle (48:21)

Thank you, Abby.

Abby Wambach (48:23)

I'm just wanting to let you know.

Glennon Doyle (48:25)

That more than one time I've been doing a book signing, and I've looked down and there's a kid with their mom. There's. And it's a kid in a jersey. And the kid looks at me and says, where's Abby? And I say, oh, honey, she's not here. And the kids start Both two times started bawling in the book line. It's like, I've been waiting in this line for you. I do understand that feeling.

Amanda Doyle (48:51)

I feel like that's a parent's fault. Like, you should really check on that before you let the kid wait in the line.

Glennon Doyle (48:58)

That's so exciting. And I am going to. In addition to our monthly shows, we're doing. I'm gonna. I've been writing again.

Abby Wambach (49:05)

Yo, dudes.

Glennon Doyle (49:06)

I've been ready and writing exciting. And that's been really kind of scary and special and exciting for me.

Abby Wambach (49:13)

And don't worry, everybody. We just figured out how to do Google Docs so Glennon won't lose. I've been entire book that she's been writing on one Microsoft document. And. And it is 50, 000 words in one document.

Glennon Doyle (49:29)

And I just.

Abby Wambach (49:30)

In one document. And I just am like, we've got to fix.

Glennon Doyle (49:33)

I just email it to myself every day when I'm done so that I don't lose it anyway. I feel like it's good for me right now. I'm trying not to make sweeping things, but I do feel like the constant what you're talking about with the pressure of just like having to always be talking has felt to me a little bit like being in the water and just like constantly being in the surf, constantly being in the waves every day, just trying to, you know, flail about and look as if I'm floating, like, not be taken under. I mean, it's just kind of felt that bit of energy. And when I am in a more of a writing mode, I feel more like I'm diving below. And for me, I think both of those places are extremely important for thinkers to be. I think we need people in the surf every day showing us how to flail about, how to react to each wave. That is so important. But I also think we also need people, some people to be below, maybe a little bit out of the daily surf, but different ideas settle in down there. And so I find myself in my writing still responding to all that's going on, to everything in the air, but in sort of a different way. That's just lower for me and feels a little bit steadier and more stable for me right now. So I'm really grateful for that. I also just am. As you guys know, I'm going into my 50th year. I'm turning 50 this year. And it is interesting how when you were saying, Amanda, that we feel like what people need is maybe a little less. Like we don't need so much. I also feel that for myself, I feel like, you know, you both know that we can talk about this more another time. But I really got to the point where I kind of woke up one day and was like, how have I created a life where the most important relationships in my life are, like, so business based? Suddenly that, you know, Abby and I were noticing some dynamics in our house that we did not love. It felt like every conversation was suddenly about work. That's not how we've ever been. I felt like every relationship that you and I were having was about work. And that is not. We had, like, lost this whole other realm that we used to live in. And I don't want that for my 50s. I want to live in a real realm that is not about hustle and is not about relevance, and it's not about more and more and is about relationship. And so I'm making, like, real life, in person, in flesh relationships. You can get to a point where it's like, you realize that the people you call your friends you actually haven't seen for four years, and you're really just friends because you know what's going on in social media. I'm craving, like, analog life. I want to see people in. I want to be on my couch with them. I want to make nonsensical trips that have nothing to do with work and are just to be with people. And I want to feel that tetheredness. I might always feel like a Macy's Day balloon, but I want to feel like I have a bunch of handlers, like tethers. And that's what friendship feels to me and relationship with you guys. So I want to find ways to. To focus. I want to wake up every day and think art, think relationships. I mean, the other day, we were talking to somebody about what was going on in 2026, and I was saying, well, we've. We're, you know, we're still going strong with the Come See Me in the Good Light project, which has been so beautiful. And we're executive producing this musical that Emily Saylors is doing that's so beautiful. And Abby's working with Billie Jean King. And I said, I think what we do is just we make good art with old lesbians. And I was like. When I said that, I was like, yep, that's right. That's a little niche, but it's my niche.

Abby Wambach (53:38)

But really, we make good art with good people.

Glennon Doyle (53:41)

Totally. And I mean old, and the majority.

Amanda Doyle (53:43)

Of whom happen to be old lesbians. The Venn diagram of good people and old lesbians is almost a full circle.

Glennon Doyle (53:48)

Amen. And I mean old when I say old now. I mean that with nothing.

Abby Wambach (53:53)

You're including yourself in that?

Glennon Doyle (53:55)

Absolutely.

Abby Wambach (53:55)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're the old lesbians now.

Glennon Doyle (53:58)

Oh, look at us. We're the elders.

Abby Wambach (54:00)

Yeah. Also, I just want to say, because we didn't really, like, do a lot of the celebrating part. So I'm going to read a few incredible things that this podcast has accomplished over the last five years.

Glennon Doyle (54:13)

Okay. Wow.

Abby Wambach (54:14)

Does the Pod Squad know that we've reached more than half a billion plays?

Glennon Doyle (54:19)

That's crazy.

Abby Wambach (54:20)

A half a billion. We've won every major podcast award. Webby's Gracie's I Heart Signal. This debuted as the number one show on Apple Podcast. It was named the Hollywood Reporter's most powerful people in podcasting for three straight years, and we sold out a 10 City Nation tour within hours. We've never missed a week since launching in May 2021, never taken a break. Showing up. Through our own illnesses and losses, we've brought our activism into the show, helping bring the total to $56 million raised and distributed in global aid. And most importantly, we've stayed true to our mission, creating honest, brave, important conversations about the reality of life and how to stay human, y'.

Glennon Doyle (55:09)

All.

Abby Wambach (55:09)

That's incredible.

Glennon Doyle (55:10)

As a person who celebrates and loves trash tv, I say this with great respect for any medium.

Abby Wambach (55:20)

But what are you going to say?

Glennon Doyle (55:22)

I just feel like I want to honor the listeners of this show because it is easier to. To listen to easier things.

Amanda Doyle (55:32)

It is true.

Glennon Doyle (55:33)

Most of the shows that are celebrated, there's like a vibe of ignoring the zeitgeist, of staying away from what is difficult, of not aligning with what challenges us, of not saying and doing scary, hard things when they need to be said and done. And the people who every single day listen to this are opting in to that sort of. Well, Amanda, you kind of described it. There's a piece that comes with it. It's the piece from facing dead on what is hard and taking responsibility for what we need to know. It's a way of being responsible, I think. And we're gonna be. I was about to say we're gonna be funny and lighten up, but I've said that every year. We never fucking do that.

Amanda Doyle (56:22)

So for me, yes, it's easier to not have hard conversations. It's easier not to confront things. It's easier because healing hurts. That's the irony.

Glennon Doyle (56:34)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, healing hurts.

Amanda Doyle (56:40)

And so It's. It's hard work and it's painful, and so it's easier to avoid it. And I understand why. Lots of people do. And I just want to say that if you have been on this journey of healing that the three of us have been on together and working on healing yourself through it, good for you on all that hard work, because it would have been easier to not do that. And also, that is the real self care.

Glennon Doyle (57:14)

Right? That's it.

Amanda Doyle (57:15)

That is the only and the highest thing I think you can do on this planet is to be committed to heal yourself. And so it's just such an honor.

Sponsor/Ad Voice (57:28)

To be doing it with y'.

Glennon Doyle (57:31)

All. I want to say one more thing before we go, and then I know we need to go. This just struck me when we were talking about all of our things. Do you think that the result, it could feel random, this. This way, what we're doing this year. It also feels like maybe the shit we've been doing has worked because it feels like we're individuating.

Abby Wambach (57:50)

Yes.

Glennon Doyle (57:51)

Like we're doing it, but we're also doing it in the way that I always think of as the highest form of love. Like, what I want so much in my life is the kind of love that makes you feel held and free. Like, the most beautiful kind of communities are where we don't have to give up our individuality, but we also don't have to give up our belonging. We don't have to pick one or the other. And it feels like this version we're trying in 2026 is like, yes, we are going to come together, but we are also going to be free to each be who we are in our separate arenas as well.

Abby Wambach (58:25)

That's right.

Glennon Doyle (58:25)

That can't be a coincidence. Like, I feel like maybe this shit is working.

Amanda Doyle (58:30)

I think it might be.

Abby Wambach (58:32)

It's really good.

Amanda Doyle (58:33)

I mean, much is not working, but some things are working. So there's that.

Glennon Doyle (58:40)

I love you both. I love this Pod Squad community. Thanks for evolving with us. Thanks for watching, doing life with us. And I think it's gonna be a special 2026, as Abby would say. Let's fucking go. Bye.

Abby Wambach (58:55)

Love you guys. Bye.

Glennon Doyle (58:58)

We Can Do Hard Things is an independent production podcast brought to you by Treat Media. Treat Media makes art for humans who want to stay human. And you can follow us at We Can Do Hard Things on Instagram and We Can Do Hard things show on TikTok.