HELP: How to Ask for the Help You Need (Best Of)

Summary

We Can Do Hard Things: Episode Summary Episode: HELP: How to Ask for the Help You Need (Best Of)
Release Date: June 14, 2025
Hosts: Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle
Produced by: Audacy

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Introduction to Asking for Help

In the episode titled "HELP: How to Ask for the Help You Need (Best Of)," hosts Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle delve into the often challenging topic of seeking assistance in various aspects of life. They explore the emotional and psychological barriers that prevent individuals from asking for help, sharing personal anecdotes and insights to shed light on this universal struggle.

Personal Experiences and Reflections

Abby Wambach opens the discussion with a poignant story about her daughter, Alice, who struggles to complete a simple task—joining two friendship bracelets. This anecdote serves as a mirror reflecting Abby’s own difficulties in accepting help:

Abby Wambach [03:00]: "It's really the most unfortunate part is that you're like... you know, when I'm screaming at Bobby, you need to learn to regulate your emotions."

Amanda Doyle echoes similar sentiments, sharing her frustrations with everyday challenges like using remotes or navigating maps, highlighting the internal panic that surfaces when help is offered:

Unknown Speaker [07:18]: "I panic when people talk to me directly. Mostly when people speak to me directly."

The Psychology Behind Seeking Help

The conversation deepens as the hosts discuss the underlying psychology that makes asking for help so daunting. Shame and vulnerability emerge as significant barriers:

Abby Wambach [15:39]: "It's about vulnerability. It's about weakness. Not like in your perspective, being a bad thing."

Amanda adds that feeling overwhelmed can lead to reluctance in seeking assistance, as pride and the desire for self-sufficiency take precedence:

Unknown Speaker [16:17]: "I've felt that over my life. As opposed to the way you two are doing it, which feels like you're in a conference room by yourself with a bunch of whiteboards in your own brain."

Power Dynamics and Gender Roles

A substantial portion of the episode addresses how power dynamics and gender roles influence the willingness to ask for help. The hosts explore how societal expectations for men and women differ, often discouraging men from seeking assistance and pressuring women to appear strong and capable:

Amanda Doyle [35:04]: "Like, we put on all these roles as, like, women and men that then we're just fighting our whole lives against."

Abby discusses her own perception of being a workaholic and how it complicates her ability to accept help without feeling out of control:

Abby Wambach [32:42]: "I think it's because you're so desperate to help me that you're like, okay, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna hire this person to do this."

Practical Strategies for Asking for Help

Transitioning from personal stories to actionable advice, the hosts offer several strategies to make asking for help more effective and less intimidating:

1. Be Specific in Your Requests:

   • Avoid vague requests like "Can we get coffee?" Instead, clearly state what you need.
   • Abby Wambach [55:58]: "You need to say, I want to ask of you X. And if you do, it will result in yes."

2. Personalize Your Approach:

   • Tailor your request to the individual, showing that their specific help matters.
   • Unknown Speaker [59:35]: "It's about the personalization... showing that your particular help matters."

3. Opt for Direct Communication:

   • Reach out via phone or in-person rather than impersonal methods like mass emails.
   • Abby Wambach [57:23]: "You have to do it over the phone or in person."

4. Celebrate No's as Well as Yes's:

   • Recognize and respect responses, whether affirmative or not, to maintain relationships.
   • Unknown Speaker [58:27]: "We always do that. We will honor your no because that's equally badass."

Overcoming the Illusion of Transparency

The hosts introduce the concept of the "illusion of transparency," where individuals mistakenly believe their needs are more apparent to others than they actually are. This misconception often leads to unspoken struggles:

Abby Wambach [52:48]: "We have to use our words because everyone thinks they know where someone else is, and everyone thinks someone else knows where they are, and no one does."

Building Community and Connection

Emphasizing the importance of community, the hosts advocate for creating environments where asking for help is normalized and encouraged. They highlight how mutual support strengthens relationships and fosters a sense of belonging:

Abby Wambach [54:17]: "You are the least likely anyone is going to ever intervene if you don't directly ask."

Conclusion and Encouragement

The episode concludes with a heartfelt encouragement to listeners to break down the barriers to asking for help. By implementing the discussed strategies and fostering open communication, individuals can alleviate their burdens and build stronger, more connected communities.

Abby Wambach [55:58]: "When you allow someone to help you, they feel good and then they associate that good feeling with you."

Notable Quotes

• Abby Wambach [15:39]: "It's about vulnerability. It's about weakness."
• Unknown Speaker [07:18]: "I panic when people talk to me directly."
• Amanda Doyle [35:04]: "We're just fighting our whole lives against."
• Abby Wambach [55:58]: "They want to know what they're being asked and they want you to be specific."

Final Thoughts

This episode of "We Can Do Hard Things" offers a compassionate and insightful exploration of the complexities surrounding the act of asking for help. Through personal narratives and practical advice, the hosts empower listeners to embrace vulnerability, foster meaningful connections, and navigate the challenges of seeking assistance with greater confidence.

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Transcript

[Glennon Doyle]

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[Amanda Doyle]

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[Unknown]

Hello world.

[Amanda Doyle]

Hi.

[Abby Wambach]

Hello world.

[Unknown]

Today on we can do hard things. We are talking about. Help.

[Abby Wambach]

Help.

[Amanda Doyle]

Help.

[Unknown]

Sister Talis.

[Amanda Doyle]

Help me. Rhonda. Help. Help me, Rhonda.

[Abby Wambach]

Help.

[Unknown]

I need somebody. Help. Alison's gonna cut all of this.

[Abby Wambach]

I hope she doesn't because I'm trying to launch my career.

[Unknown]

Tell us about Alice this week.

[Abby Wambach]

Okay, so this thing happened this week that I was telling Glendon about yesterday because I. It was an insight into myself that my daughter provided.

[Unknown]

They do that, don't they? They're little mirrors.

[Abby Wambach]

They do, yeah. It's really the most unfortunate part is that you're like. It's right there in front of my Face like when I'm screaming at Bobby, you need to learn to regulate your emotions. Yes, totally.

[Unknown]

I used to do with Tish. Why is she so dramatic?

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So Alice is currently in this camp that basically, I can only assume was started in the 60s. And they just codified the camp manual. And it's just been the same ever since. So it's like friendship bracelets and dodgeball and capture the flag and more friendship bracelets.

[Amanda Doyle]

I want that camp.

[Abby Wambach]

So she is trying to work on this. It was very simple. She's laying on my bed and she's trying to put these two bracelets together. And this is not complicated. She just has to fold the two bracelets together so that they're one.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Abby Wambach]

And she is trying and trying. And it's very clear to me that this just, like one tiny fold with her hand will solve her problem. And so I'm like, could I just. I just wanna. I'm just gonna get in there and do it. Like, it's impossible for me to watch her do this and just not be able to do it. And she gives me the death stare of like, I double dare you to help me with this. Like, you back off, lady. She wants none of it. And so I have to physically remove myself from the situation. Cause I just can't sit beside her and watch her struggle with this. So I move to a different chair.

[Unknown]

Oh, my God.

[Abby Wambach]

Okay, babe, you just, you know, Godspeed with that. And she. For like 10 minutes, she's working on this thing. And then after 10 minutes, she goes, mom, I need help, but I don't want help.

[Amanda Doyle]

Oh, my God.

[Abby Wambach]

And I was like, yes, yes, I understand that very well.

[Unknown]

Yes. Because that Yoda. Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

A third of my entire life, really. She wasn't describing what she needed next. It was like she was grappling with this weird feeling.

[Unknown]

Human condition. She's like, this human condition. Yes, yes.

[Abby Wambach]

She was just still messing with it. And she just needed me to know that she was holding both things. It's true that she understood she, in fact, needed help, but she also understood that she didn't want it. And I just thought we should talk about that, because I felt very much like that described a lot of my life where I'm in a situation where I intellectually understand that the help is necessary, but I am not comfortable with the asking or the receiving of it in that instance.

[Unknown]

And it's interesting because when you told me this story, you told me it like, I was gonna totally also relate and understand.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah. Like, I've Just solved all of our problems.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

This is the condition we live under.

[Unknown]

And I was like, I don't get it. I usually when we discover, you know, diametrically opposed human truths which we believe in. Right. Holding two things at once.

[Abby Wambach]

The paradox of humanity.

[Unknown]

Yes, I always agree. But this one in particular, I feel like I'm always asking for help. Right. Like that's just.

[Abby Wambach]

I also feel like you're always asking for help.

[Unknown]

I feel like where your go to would be to dig in and not want to ask for help. My go to is to like immediately ask for help. Like before even trying, kind of.

[Amanda Doyle]

I mean, yes. The remote, the refrigerator, and God help me with. With iPhone. Maps. Oh God help me with. I can't.

[Unknown]

Maps are hard. And. And phones and remotes. Remotes.

[Amanda Doyle]

I mean, honey, I have sent you videos on how to do it.

[Unknown]

And you sit with me over and over again.

[Amanda Doyle]

I try to be patient.

[Unknown]

Tutorials.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh, wait, about how to use the rem?

[Unknown]

Yes.

[Amanda Doyle]

You cannot.

[Unknown]

And the thing is that Abby does it over and over again. Like she sits me down and patiently talks me through the remote.

[Abby Wambach]

But you're not listening, are you? No.

[Unknown]

Here's what I need to tell you about that. Okay? I thought this through recently. So when you sit me down at the couch and you say, honey, let's talk through this remote thing again. I panic when people talk to me directly. Mostly when people speak to me directly. When they look me in the eye and try to tell me something. Especially when they're trying to help me or something. Outside, I look like I'm paying attention. Inside, I'm trying to look grateful and present. But I'm panicking. I'm panicking inside. So when you sit me down and say, I'm going to tell you about this remote again. I am trying to appear to look as if I'm concentrating and understanding you. That's all. But on the inside of myself I am thinking, oh my God, this is the 50th time she's told me this shit. You better look attentive and grateful, Doyle. Like, does this look attentive and grateful? Smile. Look as if you are deeply processing new information. And then it's over. And then she stops. And then it's over. It's like, this is the problem with the map thing. Like when I ask for directions to someone on the street. Like this happened to me like two weeks ago. I had to stop and ask this nice looking man how to get to the street. That was not registering on my stupid ass phone map. And this dude gestures in a particular direction and says something about north.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh, God, no, no, no. We're not looking for north.

[Unknown]

No. So I'm looking at him, and I'm grateful that he stopped to tell me the things on the outside. But on the inside, I'm thinking, what? Who the hell am I, Lewis and fucking Clark? Like Amelia Earhart or some shit.

[Abby Wambach]

Do I look like an astrologer to you?

[Unknown]

Left or right, buddy? Left or right? But I can't say that because this is kind of him. So on the outside, I'm nodding and yes, yes ing and uh huh ing, and I'm trying to look like I've got this now, but no, I do not got this now. I've got it less than I did when I approached this cartographer.

[Amanda Doyle]

I think probably the reason why he was using the words north and maybe south is because there's the Pacific Ocean.

[Unknown]

You know, I don't want to start with oceans, all right? Yeah, but oceans.

[Amanda Doyle]

But we live close to the ocean.

[Unknown]

See, here she goes again. So now do I look grateful and like I'm processing new information?

[Amanda Doyle]

There's only one direction north can be from the context of the ocean. In one direction, south can be right.

[Unknown]

I get that you are also. Okay.

[Abby Wambach]

No, you don't.

[Amanda Doyle]

I just have.

[Abby Wambach]

You're not getting it.

[Unknown]

What about on a zoom meeting? You know me on zoom meetings.

[Amanda Doyle]

Oh, yeah.

[Unknown]

I am on a zoom meeting about very important things with a lot of very important people. And I never one time think my job on the zoom meeting is to pay attention and listen to this new information. Okay. I think my job is to appear to be listening and paying close attention. So I'm looking at my own face and I'm thinking, yes, that looks like the face of someone who is calm but concerned and serious but kind.

[Abby Wambach]

Look how professional I look.

[Unknown]

I was rum nailing this and who belongs here? But it's also grateful to be here and is being so supportive with my face of all of the other zoom square faces. And I look like I'm really taking in new information, but if you asked me at the end of this meeting what the new information is, I would have absolutely no clue.

[Abby Wambach]

You'd be like, something about north.

[Unknown]

Anyway, that's the point. I'm gonna work on this. I'm just trying to get you to understand what's happening in my body. I'm not. And I'm not at the fix it part. I'm just telling you I am panicking on the inside when you talk to me. What about you, sister?

[Abby Wambach]

Well, I mean, it's gone in a vaguely different direction than I imagined, but I think what we're dealing with here is maybe a more specific issue. A. I think on zoom, you're staring at your face and saying, is this the type of face of a person who is getting this?

[Unknown]

It's being self conscious. Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah. Self conscious, Yes. I think with the remotes and the directions, I think it's because I too, I can hear two directions. Go up there, turn left, then take the next right. And then everything after that, I'm just pretending to look gracious because there's zero chance I'm getting more than two things. I think it's probably the same with the remote. I think you probably get the first one and a half steps and then you're like, well, that's it. So maybe it's an attention thing.

[Glennon Doyle]

I don't know.

[Unknown]

Well, it's a. What I like about you and I think is different about us is I think there's like, a little bit of shame. If you go deeper, there's something shame involved. It's like, I should know how to do this thing. Like when Abby hands me the phone and asks me to find something. Cause she's driving. If I could explain to you how upsetting it is to me. I know she needs me to do it. I can't do it. Like, I cannot. I'm not gonna. I'm zooming in. I'm. I'm like, is this one of those screens where you do your fingers? I'm pushing the little dots. And it's not. I mean, it's funny, but it's not funny for me in the moment. I get really upset. And so my go to is to just. I can't do it and quit. But your go to is to never quit, to never stop. So I just wanna hear about your. Because I'm working on. Give yourself a second. Like, just it. I tell Abby sometimes, like, she'll jump in to try to help me with something. I'm like, it takes me a little bit longer than it does with you. If you want me to figure those types of things out, just give me a minute. I need to not be under immediate pressure. And then I can, like, give myself a minute. Between the hand, the panicking and. And the begging for help. I can try.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, I get that. And I think it is that deeper level. Because after Alice said that to me, I was thinking, I feel the exact same way. But it feels like it's a specific type of asking for help. Because you and I both Glennon are incredibly efficient and resourceful in things. Like we'll walk into a grocery store and. And if we need tomatoes, we will not look for the tomatoes. We will go up to a person and say, can you please point me towards the tomatoes? Because that just makes sense. Why am I going to spend five minutes looking when I can just ask you? So that kind of help. Easy breezy. Love it. Directions. Happy to ask. But I think it's the specific instance, like, exactly where Alice was that I'm. That I'm particularly allergic to, which is people seeing me needing help before I have determined whether I need help, whether I'm going to ask for help. Because there's no agency in that moment. Right. Like, if I have recognized that I need help and I am having the agency to ask for the help, then that is a position where I am activated and I am directional. If I'm struggling with something and someone notices that emotionally a job, no matter what it is, I am allergic to people seeing me struggling.

[Unknown]

That is so true about you.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah. So that's what Alice's thing was. I was witnessing her struggling before she had made the determination whether she needed help or wanted help. Yes. And that is for apparently both of us, the sweet spot of ultimate vulnerability.

[Unknown]

Yes. It's about vulnerability. It's about weakness. Weakness. Not like in your perspective, being a bad thing. Like, I can't. Oh, my God, they're seeing me not be able to do this. It's about.

[Abby Wambach]

And I'm not in an active position of being like, okay, so I've done the analysis and I do in fact need help. And I'm accessing my resources and you know, it's just the, like the struggle area.

[Unknown]

Yeah. It's control too.

[Amanda Doyle]

You said something earlier that really rang true. It's becoming self conscious, like to become aware of yourself. And then, sister, what you're saying is like not being able to actually perform or complete or do whatever task is. And it's this intense vulnerability of shame or feeling not good enough or you don't have enough agency.

[Unknown]

Yeah. I'm just thinking about so many times, like, I'm actually remembering so many times where I feel like in real time you are like overwhelmed or exhausted or whatever it is. Which, it's so interesting because for me, in those moments, I really want someone to be like, what is needed. But when I say to you, you. You seem exhausted or what can I do? It's. You get mad.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

You actually get mad.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yes.

[Unknown]

And I see your body change. I see your Face change. It's like I've called you out, like I've noticed something that is causing you shame and you reject.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, that is correct. It's like you busting in, open the door on someone and they're naked and you're like, get the hell outta here. Which I never do because I have no problem being naked. So that's not a good analogy. But if to the average person that feels naked, vulnerable, and ick, it's like that versus, you know, coming out and being like, I need you to bring me some clothes.

[Unknown]

Yes. But here's.

[Abby Wambach]

Because that's me telling you what I need instead of you noticing what I need.

[Unknown]

Yes. My head is exploding right now. That feels just so lonely to me too, because I have this. We have one kid who I feel like was like this for a really long time. Like, this kid would come to us, sit down at the dinner table and say, I want you to know, I. My person and I broke up. It was three months ago that we broke up. And I went through some hard times. This person lived with us and was our child. Okay. I went through some hard times, and it was ups and downs. And I worked through it. I've created a PowerPoint. Yes.

[Abby Wambach]

So that you understand what's going on with me.

[Unknown]

Yes. And right now, just. It's just. No further questions. Everything's fine. I'm on the other end. I'm all. As well. And. And that we just had to. Okay. All right. But then I felt like, oh, this person thinks that life is something to figure out and control and get. And before you present it to people. But isn't that really lonely? Because isn't it that time when you're naked in the bathroom or whatever, like, you know, metaphorically? Isn't that when you most need people to sit with you before you figured it all out? Or is that just a way of being. That's not universal.

[Abby Wambach]

It's wild because when you said that, I remembered that in my divorce, that's exactly what I did. That I did. My three best friends, I. We had gone through the. I mean, granted, it was fairly swift, but it had. It was a couple months there of deep misery. And after the couple months was over, I called a summit to my house and I was like, I'm going to need you, all three of you, to come to my house because I have something to tell you. And they all came to my house and I delivered this news that here's what happened. I am getting a divorce. Here are the top level items you need to know about. And that is the story. I'll be taking questions at the end.

[Unknown]

Like it was no vulnerability and there.

[Abby Wambach]

Was nothing through was. Like it was exactly like you said with your kid.

[Unknown]

So it was nothing through it. What do you mean by nothing through it? Like it was not.

[Abby Wambach]

There was no contact about like in the sorrow, in the, in it. It was like I now have data to relay to you about the state of the union.

[Amanda Doyle]

It's like this deep need for a human being to need to have had overcome something in order to share it. The allergicness to, to true vulnerability. Yeah.

[Unknown]

The messy middle.

[Amanda Doyle]

But it's interesting because you do take help. I think that Glennon, you are more capable of it. Which I think is interesting because you've married me who's always scanning the world for people who need help.

[Unknown]

That's right. It's like I need frickin Captain America.

[Abby Wambach]

If you're ever going to get a flat tire, if you're ever going to be thirsty, if you're ever gonna need a haircut, just generally be around Abby, she's gonna do all of those things for you.

[Amanda Doyle]

But I'm like sister, I like will not.

[Unknown]

Do you still feel like you're that way?

[Amanda Doyle]

Yeah. I actually used to not be this way. I never took help. I would just quit. So. So like before I got sober, that's how I was. I would try things and they wouldn't work out and I would just quit them. Just be like, no, that's just not the thing. And now since I have been sober, I like have a relentlessness that I never knew lived inside of me that I just don't ever quit.

[Unknown]

But you do ask for help now?

[Amanda Doyle]

Yeah, I have like kind of a blend a little bit.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Amanda Doyle]

But I wouldn't actually say I ask for help.

[Abby Wambach]

She procures help.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yeah, I, I, that's probably a little.

[Unknown]

Bit more of yeah, you're so right. You don't ask for help, you just arrange help.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

Which is an active thing. That's the difference. It's like I am in control and know what I need, I'm going to get it. I truly think there is something about that middle place where you need it. And you haven't made a decision as to what you need or even identified that you are struggling.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Abby Wambach]

That is the place.

[Unknown]

All right, so then here's my question about that. If you never seek other resources when you're in your messy middle, then the only power, the only choices, the only options, the only resources you are ever depending on Is your own what you already know?

[Amanda Doyle]

Yes.

[Unknown]

That's what's confusing me about it. It's like when I used to say, writing's my therapy. And I'm. I'm a writer. I write my. I'm therapist all the time. I'm always in therapy. I'm a writer. And then you were like, okay, but the only thing about that is that there's no therapist involved. Yeah, right. So, no, writing is not therapy. I guess what I'm saying is when you are at that, like, beautiful place, which. That breaking point, I think of that point as so luscious and fertile because you come to the end of your own power, and then there's like, every other. All you have these people in your life. You have people with different perspectives. You have friends. You have God or whatever your higher power is. You have all of these, you know, metaphorical angels who are, like, right there. Like, I picture it, like, right on the edge of waiting for you to break, waiting for you to break, Waiting for you to break, and then you break. You're like, I can't do it. I need help. It's like, whether you do that outwardly or just inwardly, it's like, rush to you is how it feels to me. And I know that's my weirdness, but I have felt that over my life. As opposed to the way you two are doing it, which feels like you're in, like, a conference room by yourself with a bunch of whiteboards in your own brain.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yes.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah. Yes, that's correct. It's like an accurate.

[Amanda Doyle]

It's like a killing.

[Abby Wambach]

Like. Well, the board is meeting to solve this problem. Who's present? I am.

[Amanda Doyle]

Me. I. I second.

[Unknown]

I second that motion.

[Abby Wambach]

Well, it's unanimous.

[Unknown]

This is what we're doing.

[Amanda Doyle]

But it's just. It's just all ego. I know that that's what has helped me so much in my sobriety is like the killing off of the ego, the ability to say that my life has become unmanageable.

[Unknown]

Right. That's the first step.

[Abby Wambach]

But even that, I think that I am moving towards that. But even that, I have determined that my life is in manageable. It is not. Truly. I think that's the difference. Like, the board has met. The board has made an assessment, and the board determines that its own life is unmanageable. Like, when you're talking about when I get mad, Glennon, you're like, I have determined that your life is unmanageable.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yes.

[Abby Wambach]

And that is the place where it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. Yeah, that's a little too close.

[Unknown]

Yeah, I hear that. I guess maybe if you came to me and said you well, that's what an intervention is, right? I mean, many people have come to me over my life, said you're like.

[Abby Wambach]

That is par for the course, right?

[Unknown]

We believe your life is unmanageable. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

Foreign.

[Glennon Doyle]

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[Unknown]

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[Amanda Doyle]

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[Unknown]

Okay, so here's a question. When are some times. Do you know of any times besides me coming to you in a work related thing and saying, like, this is unmanageable or whatever? What are some times when you have felt someone has caught me in my messy middle and I am not ready for this? Are there times where someone's just reaching out but it feels like untenable to you because you have not decided yet? Like, I'm just wondering, what are those things? That, that it's touching.

[Abby Wambach]

I think it's touching that. That I don't have a handle on it, that I could be doing better, that I'm not in control, that someone's worried about me. Like today.

[Unknown]

Say more about that. Because I'm like, someone's worried about me. You just said it with the most disdain I've got. Someone's worried about me.

[Abby Wambach]

Exactly. Worry about yourself, asshole. Literally, if I'm like moving a box and John is walking by and I can tell he's like, I could carry that box. I'm like, I got it, I got it. And I'm like carrying the box of like this huge. If he was to come and just pick up the box and I'd be like, thank you. But if you. If someone is watching me struggle, either physically or emotionally and witnessing it, I can't handle. I can't handle. But I am thinking of what, like, I'm not impervious to this. I remember a time, like, when I'm thinking about when I got caught, like, kind of called in on something in college when Bonzo. When I was like, stealing people's food all the time and there were notes all over my house, it was like, whoever's stealing the food, please stop. You know, I was living with 12 girls and I'm 100% sure everyone knew it was me, but no one, it was the elephant in the room. No one talking about it. And there were notes where? In the pantry. Please stop stealing everyone's food. Because I was craving and stuff. And she sat me down and was like, okay, so it's you. Let's just talk about it. We know it's you. We have to stop this and what's going on. And. And I was actually very receptive to that, which is really.

[Unknown]

Yeah, so what was different about it? I mean, Lauren Ponce is such a badass. Imagine being that direct in college. Okay, yes. So she sits you down and says, you have a problem. You're stealing all of our food. Which, PS is a very embarrassing thing because I also have been caught stealing everyone's food.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah. It is humiliating.

[Unknown]

Humiliating. So why do you think in that moment? Because that was someone calling you out mid struggle. You did not go and say, I have a problem. I keep. I have an eating disorder and I'm stealing everyone's food. Why is that? Why is that a thing?

[Abby Wambach]

I think because I know that she loves me completely. I know that she respects me completely. It isn't like, oh, this poor thing, you know, Like. I think the like, thing situation. I'm severely allergic to knowing that she respects me, knowing that it was just to me. It's not like they called a house meeting and called me out. It was friend to friend. I would never question her faith in me and respect for me. It felt like two capable people problem solving together, as opposed to, oh, I pity you. You have a problem.

[Unknown]

Okay, so it's a power. It's a. It's a power dynamic thing, too. It's like someone coming to you as an equal, as a problem solver, as opposed to, I am above you, seeing that you have a problem. And, okay, so like, when I come to you, which, don't worry, I haven't done it for a year, so I'm like, you've learned. How can I do that better? Because you do so much, and sometimes I feel like it's where I'm worried or if there are ways that I can help or what am I, you know, I just.

[Abby Wambach]

How.

[Unknown]

What am I doing that's making you freeze up like a statue? That Bonso did better. Seriously, do you think that I think that you are a workaholic? So when I say it, there's like a fixing or pitying thing involved?

[Abby Wambach]

Well, I think. I think I probably am a workaholic. So I. I don't think that's like, a news flash probably. I mean, maybe I'm getting better, but I. No, I think it's because you're so desperate to help me that you're like, okay, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna hire this person to do this. We're gonna do this thing we're gonna do. And. And I'm like, oh, my God, now it's totally out of control.

[Amanda Doyle]

Help. And the conversation of power dynamics is really important. I bet if, like, I were walking in your house and I saw you struggle, and I just, like, came over and I was like, hey, let me help you with that, or whatever. You'd be like, okay. But there's a thing about it, having a man needing to help you, a woman. Right. I think that there is this because you will never accept help from a dude.

[Unknown]

Nope. There we go. We found my pride. And so, no, God help me.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

If I'm on an airplane, planes are fricking nightmare because they're so tall. And they made these. They're, like, made against short people. Okay? So I have to.

[Abby Wambach]

For Glennon, it's the over overhead compartment.

[Unknown]

It's the over overhead. Like, I get on a plane and I think of my first book's title. I'm a Carry On Warrior. I am a Carry On Warrior. I can do this. I can do this. Okay? So if I am putting that suitcase up in the carry on bin and a man comes over and tries to help me, I swear to God, I will. I will. I will turn this plane around. Okay? If a woman helps me, I am her best friend for the rest of her life. Right. Like, if a man says sweetheart, calls me sweetheart, I will kill him. If a woman says sweetheart, best friend for life. Yeah. Yes. Power dynamic, right? There's some kind of help. Power dynamic. It's like some kind of help is the kind of help that helping's all about.

[Amanda Doyle]

But it's interesting because even I would feel not allergic. But I. For me, I think I can do almost anything. Like, really, you do. And that's one of my strengths and also one of my, like, biggest weaknesses. And so I don't. I will never take help from a dude, like, ever.

[Unknown]

That's right.

[Amanda Doyle]

And I mean, even when I would be playing against, like, we would have to play against boys on the national team to train. And I would play so hard, and if anyone, like, fouled, like, one of my teammates, I would. I would two foot tackle that I would, because I just did not want them to believe that we were weaker in any way. So I feel like this help conversation is about this, like, deep underlining, underlying, like, feeling of weakness and the relationship between power and gender. Like, we put on all these roles as, like, women and men that then we're just fighting our whole lives against.

[Unknown]

So is it like, we can only accept help from people who we sense, believe that we are equal?

[Abby Wambach]

Yes.

[Unknown]

We need to sense that the person is coming to us from a place of what you said, two people who are equal solving a problem together.

[Abby Wambach]

And two people who. Who have consensus over that this is a problem. Yeah, that's for me, like, I have to just from where I sit, be at the place where I'm like, I have a problem before someone can come in and help me with a problem. It is that place of struggle when I have not decided I need help, where someone wants to intervene and help me. And that is a threat to me.

[Unknown]

Okay, so what is something that you need help with if you had to think of one thing that you need in an area that you feel like you need help in?

[Amanda Doyle]

I can think of 12 that we both need.

[Unknown]

No, that each of you. Like Pod squad, think about what if you could have help in one area?

[Amanda Doyle]

You can think of 12 for yourself.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Amanda Doyle]

Oh, I thought you were putting it on us and I was starting to feel vulnerable.

[Abby Wambach]

No, no, no.

[Unknown]

I haven't even thought about you.

[Amanda Doyle]

I was like, this is exactly what sister was just talking about.

[Unknown]

Oh, absolutely not. I'm not. No. Like, what's something that you could use some help in an area of your life? Wow.

[Amanda Doyle]

This is really hard for me.

[Abby Wambach]

I think I need help in my house because in just our daily functioning, because John travels so much, there's this extra, like, I'm trying to do work and life when that margin of what he does is gone while operating on such a thin margin of capacity that then it's like, whoa, everything's to shit.

[Unknown]

Yep.

[Abby Wambach]

And so I think building in more margin in our life through some help so that it isn't always, like, we're always at a nine and a half. So the tiniest little bump will take us to a 12. That would be helpful.

[Unknown]

Cool. What about you?

[Amanda Doyle]

I'm trying to figure out why this is so embarrassing.

[Unknown]

You feel embarrassed?

[Amanda Doyle]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Do you want to stop this?

[Amanda Doyle]

No.

[Unknown]

Okay.

[Amanda Doyle]

Okay. This is something that just kind of came to me, but, you know, like, parental figures that have life experience that I feel like we are in a state of our life that I don't have somebody else to go to for. Like, life advice, like, what should we do here? How do we plan for the next five or ten years?

[Unknown]

How do we raise grownups? And how do we be this phase of our lives? We don't have it.

[Abby Wambach]

No.

[Amanda Doyle]

The biggest questions I'm asking right now are how do I be a better parent? I don't need tactile help. I'm really good at doing stuff. But also I am very good at outsourcing. If we don't have something or I can't figure something out, I will call somebody that knows better.

[Unknown]

But like wisdom.

[Abby Wambach]

You're like life wisdom.

[Amanda Doyle]

That's, that's really something that I need help with that.

[Abby Wambach]

Like you need like a grandma.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yes.

[Abby Wambach]

Be like, baby, baby, this is what you do.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yes. Or like also just don't worry about it. You know, like, that is real. That's real help to me is somebody who can kind of take all of whatever worries I have and make them not so big.

[Unknown]

I feel like I have that.

[Amanda Doyle]

You do.

[Glennon Doyle]

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[Abby Wambach]

It's super easy.

[Glennon Doyle]

There are so many ways to save on summer grilling favorites at Whole Foods Market.

[Abby Wambach]

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[Glennon Doyle]

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[Abby Wambach]

Book your virtual visit today at join midi. That's joinmidi.com.

[Unknown]

When our youngest was little, when we'd had this trip, we'd go to the beach. I had this big bag, like a tote bag full of beach stuff. You know, the mom beach bag.

[Abby Wambach]

And emma would always 1500 snacks and a shovel.

[Unknown]

Exactly, exactly. And she would always say, can I help you? Was so sweet. Can I help you carry the bag? So she would put one of the handles on her shoulder. But she was like 13 and she's shorter than me. So I'd be like, this bitch is not helping at all.

[Abby Wambach]

She just made my load heavier.

[Unknown]

Yeah, she's like, worse because she's pretending to help, but she's all the way down there. I'm carrying it all still, but I have to pretend that she's carrying it now. I'm carrying her body as well as the bag. Exactly. But this is so cheesy. But I think about this all the time because I think everything is so heavy. And I'm carrying all of this. My family, work, the world, all these things. And then I just think of whatever my idea of God is. I'm like the little amma pretending to carry it, but actually none of the weight is really on me. And there's this higher power, which to me is this old lady with gray curly hair. And I don't know what her face looks like. She just has gray curly hair and a flowy outfit on. And she's really carrying the whole thing. Like, I'm not carrying any of It. It's none of it. I think I'm carrying it. I'm not carrying any of it. God's looking at me like, this bitch is complaining. She's got no weight. She doesn't even know it.

[Abby Wambach]

That's awesome. It's like the footprints in the sand. They always say, Jesus. It's like the new meme is the footprints in the sand. And the graphic is like, this bitch thinks she's scared.

[Unknown]

Oh, I'm so stressed.

[Abby Wambach]

This is so hard.

[Unknown]

And God's like, I've got the whole bag. Just walk.

[Abby Wambach]

I love that. I mean, I think it. A lot of it has to do, too, with, like, being a burden, like, thinking that we're a burden on someone. And so when I started thinking about this and I read this, social psychologist Heidi Grant wrote a book called Reinforcements. Harvard Business Review book. And it's all about. It's all the research on help, why we don't ask, why we should ask. What happens when we do all this stuff? I feel like one of the reasons people don't ask for help is that they. We think that people don't want to help us, that we are bothering them or burdening them or whatever. But actually, the research shows that our perception is completely wrong about this, that people are twice as likely to want to help us as we perceive them to be. And also, what's wild to me is that people. People like us more when they've helped us.

[Unknown]

Yes, that makes sense to me. That's right. Because I'm saying to our kid who comes down to the dinner table and was like, it's done. It's all done. I'm like, oh, my God, we just missed all of the stuff that makes us closer.

[Abby Wambach]

Mm.

[Unknown]

You skipped over the entire part where we get to know each other better, where we build trust in each other, where we feel more deeply connected. Because you think this is some kind of a sufficiency contest. It's like, we were about to take a road trip together, and you took a plane. We were, like, getting packed up the car packed up for this trip we were going to take, where we were going to see all these sites, and we were going to talk, and we were going to talk, and it was going to be annoying and take a long time, but it was going to be so such a bonding experience. And you called us from Good News Airport, where you just landed, and we're like, good News, I'm already here. And I was like, okay, that's efficient. But you've just. We've missed the Whole trip together, missed the whole ride. That's what we're doing here together. To be in those really vulnerable places together and not have a clue and then somehow get through it together. Because self sufficiency is a connection blocker.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah. It is such an awesome point and such a powerful analogy of the ride and the flight. The even on like the concrete little things, even like letting your neighbor order pizza for your family when you're sick. The data shows that the helping someone else is one of the quickest, most effective ways that you feel better about yourself. And so asking and receiving help from people is most of the most effective ways to make them feel good. And it's like that Maya Angelou quote of people won't remember what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel. When you allow someone to help you, they feel good and then they associate that good feeling with you.

[Unknown]

Yes. Because you feel powerful and you feel important and you feel necessary to that other person. It's one thing to feel like someone's impressive, like you like, oh, wow, good job, impressive. But that's different from feeling connected and needed. Like when my kid sits down and says it's done, I'm like, oh, they didn't need me at all. I'm not necessary at all here. What's the point?

[Abby Wambach]

Yes, the necessary thing is beautiful. I was listening to a TED Talk that this former kindergarten teacher, Ms. Kim, gave about. It was all about what we have to learn from kids, about asking for help. And, and she was talking about how as a first time teacher, she was just waiting for the moment. Like when a kid, a kindergartner, falls and they get hurt, they don't start crying. They look up and scan for a person they can trust. And if they find them and lock eyes with them, then they start crying. They won't cry until they have locked eyes with someone that they trust. And she said she kept seeing it happen with other teachers and she was waiting for the moment where it happened for her. And this little kid in her class who was always so self sufficient, he like wouldn't accept help in any way and he fell down and he locked eyes with her and he burst out crying. And she was like, I am valued and needed and you have just proven that I'm trustworthy to me by allowing yourself to crumble in front of me.

[Unknown]

That's it.

[Amanda Doyle]

I wonder if part of his consciousness, I'm just like still on the power part of it. Like if he's like super efficient, he's like the go Getter in the class, he's like, I only trust the teacher here.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah. All the other assholes like that.

[Amanda Doyle]

Power differential in a marriage, in a business partnership with all of us. It's like, how do we cut through here? How do you and I. Glennon.

[Unknown]

I mean, I would be so honored if. And I don't know, you all witness a lot of my moments. I think of my middle parts where I haven't figured it all out, but I would love to get a message from. And I feel like you do. You do it now. And from. A message from the middle is what we're calling this year. Like, that's like, I'm fucked. Those moments where you're just like, I haven't figured it all out yet. I'm just feeling lost, or I'm feeling unmanageable or I'm. Whatever. Just those moments. A message from those moments I think would be interesting. And I also will promise to not try to figure anything out just to be like, here with you.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

I wonder if something practical. Because I think we all, at least, speaking for myself, have to wait because it's hard for everyone. Everyone's struggling. Everyone, like work, family, everything. Everyone's a mess. Right.

[Unknown]

Right. So we.

[Abby Wambach]

We're almost like making a judgment call that ours has reached a higher level than yours to ask for help. And since everyone's drowning, it feels somehow like cutting in line to say, yeah.

[Unknown]

But that's not it. It's not.

[Abby Wambach]

I know.

[Unknown]

Okay, okay.

[Abby Wambach]

Because, like, I know that's not it. I'm just saying that feel. Right.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Sorry.

[Abby Wambach]

And so I think a practical application of this might be in your friend groups, in our. Even in our work situation, which is like a friend and work thing to, like, every week, you actually have to bring one thing you're struggling with, or you actually have to bring one thing that if you were to get help on, it would be this thing. Because it also goes to this other part of the research, which is this thing called the illusion of transparency, where we don't notice other people's need as much as they think we do. It's called the illusion of transparency, the research shows, and it's the tendency for people to overestimate the degree to which their personal mental state is known by others and a tendency for people to overstate how well they understand others personal mental state. So we are operating. This is universally true. We are operating in a world in which we think other people understand where we are, and they think they understand where we are, and we are both wrong.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yes.

[Abby Wambach]

So this is where it comes from of, like, that idea of, like, why aren't people helping me? They see I'm struggling and. No, they don't. Like, they literally don't. We have to use our words because everyone thinks they know where someone else is, and everyone thinks someone else knows where they are, and no one does.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yeah.

[Unknown]

Okay. All right. So then two things, then. We need to report accurately.

[Amanda Doyle]

From your own mouth.

[Unknown]

Yeah, from your own mouth with someone. Right. Or, like, even to self might be good. Like, even in writing.

[Abby Wambach]

Self first. Yeah.

[Unknown]

Right. Report to self what you need or to another, what you need.

[Amanda Doyle]

Not even what you need. Maybe you don't know what you need, but, like.

[Unknown]

Yeah, what.

[Amanda Doyle]

What you're struggling with.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Amanda Doyle]

And then it's not happening.

[Unknown]

And then believing if you share it with someone, that it's a gift, not a burden. That's right, because we're not saying you go to your friend who's also dripping with children, and say, I need someone to cook me dinner five days a week. You're just saying, I'm struggling. And then that other person you think you're. You shouldn't bring it to your friend because your friend is also struggling. And then you're just adding another burden to your friend. But actually, your friend, more than anything, need somebody else to say I. That's why people love this podcast, because we're fucking mess. We're a cry for help. Like we are. Wink twice.

[Abby Wambach]

Pod Squad, if you really.

[Unknown]

Yeah, exactly. I feel like generally the Pod Squad doesn't feel like this is a burden. When we talk about things like this, it feels like a gift because people feel less alone, and that lessens our struggle. Just the knowing.

[Abby Wambach]

Yes.

[Unknown]

That we're not alone.

[Amanda Doyle]

And it might give somebody the ability.

[Unknown]

To help who has some, which could.

[Amanda Doyle]

Be something that's really good for them in a. In a life full of chaos and uncontrollables.

[Abby Wambach]

I also think there's that. You know how they always say, check on your strong friends. I think that also in this book that I read about this thing called the diffusion of responsibility, which is the more people that can help you, so the wider your. Your network, your support system seems to be, the least likely it is that anyone will help you.

[Unknown]

Oh, this is like the phenomenon of.

[Amanda Doyle]

Too many cooks.

[Unknown]

Too many cooks in the kitchen. It's the phenomenon of about how when children are swimming, the more adults that are watching, the more likely there'll be an accident, because if.

[Abby Wambach]

No. If everyone's in charge. No one's in charge.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Abby Wambach]

It's.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

So if you. If you're somebody who appears to have a lot of people who could help you, it's even more important that you ask for help. Because data shows that you are the least likely anyone is going to ever intervene on. You need to actually directly ask. Which is odd, right?

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

We're talking about this whole, like, interpersonal struggle with help. But then there's this actual bucket. If you need practical help for your business, for your. Whatever you're doing, there are these three things that are the ways you will actually get help. So this isn't like I'm struggling and I need to get sober. I. My family's falling apart or whatever. But practical. Three practical things if you actually need tangible, concrete help. One, I'm calling say no to the vague fave.

[Unknown]

Vague fave. Okay. All right.

[Abby Wambach]

So this is this idea of when someone writes to you and they're like, yeah, we should get coffee or I'd like to pick your brain or can we connect? These are hard no's.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Abby Wambach]

They are bad for you. They don't like people do not. They want to know what they're being asked and they want you to be specific. And they are demotivated when they don't understand the impact. So you need to say, I want to ask of you X. And if you do, it will result in yes. Okay. That's what you do. Also, this is terrible news. Number two is you have to do it over the phone or in person.

[Unknown]

What?

[Abby Wambach]

Because yes, you are 34 more times likely to get help if you ask over the phone or in person than you are if you Write an email 34 times. It takes 200 emails to reach the same success rate as six in person requests.

[Amanda Doyle]

You're kidding me.

[Unknown]

Okay, but that's a boundary thing. You can just call people, show up at their house.

[Abby Wambach]

Well, no, I'm. I'm talking about if you're in a situation where you are having the grand opening of your business, you send out a mass email to everyone on your list. You have to do that 200 to 200 people. Or you get on the phone and you say, hey, I know you're busy. I've been working really hard on this and it would mean so much to me if you would come to my grand opening. And I celebrate your no as much as I celebrate your yes. I just want you to know that having you there would mean a lot to me.

[Unknown]

Yeah, that's cool. I like to celebrate your no as much as your yes. We always do that.

[Abby Wambach]

CECE we always tell women, do that because it's true.

[Unknown]

We will honor your no because that's equally badass.

[Abby Wambach]

Don't you think? It goes with the whole idea of, like, diffusion of responsibility. If you know you're in a mass email list, you don't think it is important that you are there. You just think it's important that some people are there. And we think they've got it covered. Look, they have this huge network. It actually doesn't matter if. About me.

[Unknown]

Totally.

[Abby Wambach]

If someone says you matter, this is why you matter. Here's what your impact will be on me. Suddenly, again, the greatest, quickest way for me to feel good about myself is to help someone. You mean I can help someone.

[Unknown]

Right. What I just want to emphasize there is I don't think it's about the phone call. I think it's about the personalization. So whatever that means. Because, for example, if someone called me, I would be like, this person doesn't know who I am. They don't respect any of my boundaries. They know. They don't care that I hate the phone. Like, so I don't think it's about the phone. I think it's. I think what that study is saying, what's beneath, what's underneath. The thing is, it's the personalization.

[Abby Wambach]

That's the showing that your particular help matters.

[Amanda Doyle]

You're also a writer.

[Abby Wambach]

Helps.

[Unknown]

Right.

[Amanda Doyle]

You're also a writer, so you prefer to write things.

[Unknown]

Okay, so personalization. Say no to the vague fave. Make it personal.

[Abby Wambach]

Yes. And then also I feel like some people try to think that if you do this for me, I'll do this for you. That that's like an evening that's making it less of a burden.

[Unknown]

Oh, I hate that.

[Abby Wambach]

But the. Yeah, the study showed that. That when you make it in exchange, like, if you do this. I'd love to. I don't know. What do people like to do? Take you to lunch? I'd love to. I will do it for you. Whatever it is that it actually diminishes you making an offer connected to your request diminishes the likelihood they will do it for you.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

Because again, people want to be able to feel effective and helpful. They don't want whatever it is that you are willing to give. That's interesting.

[Amanda Doyle]

Interesting. So that's what's quid pro quo?

[Unknown]

Yeah. It feels icky. Is the way that. The only way that I can describe that one, if somebody says, I really need you to do this, it feels like I could. My. My best Self could step up to that. But if somebody says to me, if I, if, if you do this, I will post your whatever, if I do this, I, if you do this, I will. It feels like my, my worst self is being invited forward. Like I'm trying to get something instead of give something. Well, it's a manipulation which makes me feel not so good.

[Amanda Doyle]

It's a right.

[Abby Wambach]

And if you do need something, you would rather have it be like, I helped you. Now, I know in the future, since we have a relationship that's now built on this, since I now, the data shows, feel closer to you, since I've helped you, I will then organically reach out to you if I need something because I feel closer to you. Not because I did this for you, I want you to do this for me. It's just a relationship thing. So I think they're all helpful things on help.

[Unknown]

So.

[Abby Wambach]

But just this wasn't in the research. But I just think anecdotally there's also this boy who cried help phenomenon where I do feel like I have certain people in my life that if they say, I need your help, I will quite literally drop everything and be like, this is a first class emergency. I will do anything right now. And then I have some people in my life, they say I need help. I'm like, give it 20 minutes. Yes, it's not gonna be a thing. So I do feel in all this effort to ask for help, it's like concentrated family time. It's like vital for health and joy. But it should be used sparingly, like when you actually.

[Amanda Doyle]

Need it.

[Unknown]

Yeah, yeah. That's why I like the idea of God, because.

[Abby Wambach]

Why do you like the idea of God?

[Unknown]

Because.

[Abby Wambach]

Tell us again.

[Unknown]

Because the reason I like the idea of God is because I don't have to worry about that. Like, I can say help 49,000 times a day and do. I am with Liz Gilbert about, you know, she talked about it on her episode about how every minute she's just like, I can't do this. Can you do it? I can't do this. Can you do it to God all day?

[Abby Wambach]

God?

[Unknown]

Yeah. Like, I can't do this meeting. I can't do this phone call. I can't order pizza directly. Can you just do everything all day and then, and then you just, you never run out of helps. So many helps.

[Abby Wambach]

God is forever helps. Well, maybe you should try that with a remote. Glennon, have you tried that as God's help with the remote?

[Unknown]

God's like, bitch, figure out that remote for God's sake. For myself sake. Okay, love bugs, what's gonna be our next right thing here? I think that it would be cool for all pod squatters just to think about if.

[Amanda Doyle]

What they need help with.

[Unknown]

Yeah. Like what area of their life are they in the messy middle of that they haven't figured out what's needed, but they just know that something is help wise.

[Amanda Doyle]

Two parts. Figure out what you need help with and maybe share it with the one person.

[Unknown]

Yeah, or maybe they could share with us. They could call us. Yeah, because wouldn't it be cool if we had like, category? What if everybody says the exact same thing? I just do. I want to know what the pod squad feels in the messy middle of. Like what they need the most help with.

[Abby Wambach]

Yes.

[Unknown]

Right. So call us.

[Amanda Doyle]

747-2530-774720-05307.

[Unknown]

Yeah, wouldn't it be cool if everybody told us what they needed help with and then we could see somehow make a whole help encyclopedia. Okay. We love you, pod Squad. Thanks for helping us through this really freaking weird hard life. We love you so much.

[Amanda Doyle]

We love you.

[Unknown]

See you next time.

[Amanda Doyle]

Bye.

[Unknown]

If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the POD helps you because you'll never miss an episode. And it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso Ellison Shot, Dina Kleiner and Bill Schultz.