How Their Friendship Became a Revolution | Leisha Hailey & Kate Moennig of The L Word 03, 2025

Summary

Podcast Summary: We Can Do Hard Things – How Their Friendship Became a Revolution | Leisha Hailey & Kate Moennig of The L Word 03, 2025

Introduction

In the June 3, 2025 episode of We Can Do Hard Things, host Glennon Doyle, alongside Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle, welcomes special guests Leisha Hailey and Kate Moennig from the groundbreaking television series The L Word and its reboot, The L Word: Generation Q. The episode delves deep into the enduring friendship between Leisha and Kate, exploring their experiences on set, the cultural impact of their work, and personal journeys of self-discovery and coming out.

Meeting and Auditioning for The L Word

Leisha Hailey and Kate Moennig recount their first encounter during the audition process for The L Word. Amanda Doyle initiates the conversation by asking about their initial meeting.

• Amanda Doyle [02:16]: "Hi."
• Leisha Hailey [02:20]: "We're very excited about this."

Kate vividly remembers their first meeting:

• Kate Moennig [05:38]: "We met in a very echoey hallway on Wilshire Boulevard in Century City, on the 14th floor at the Showtime offices on a hard bench. I remember that."

Leisha adds a humorous touch to their initial interaction:

• Leisha Hailey [05:08]: "Oh, did they find Amelia Earhart?"

Their shared experience of auditioning for the same role—Shane McCutcheon—created an immediate bond.

• Abby Wambach [08:12]: "Yes. That's amazing. That's so. That jumbles my mind."

Developing Friendship and On-Set Dynamics

As they progressed through the auditions, both realized they were the only two contenders for Shane. Their mutual shyness led to a tentative friendship marked by awkward silences and side glances.

• Kate Moennig [11:20]: "We're both shy."
• Leisha Hailey [11:24]: "Yeah. Very shy."

Despite the initial discomfort, their bond strengthened, mirroring the authentic relationships portrayed in the show. Leisha reflects on the natural progression of their friendship:

• Leisha Hailey [27:02]: "The surprise to all of us was how close we became and how the on-screen dynamic became parallel to what we were experiencing off-screen."

Impact of The L Word on LGBTQ+ Representation

The conversation shifts to the cultural significance of The L Word and its role in advancing LGBTQ+ representation.

• Abby Wambach [15:49]: "I think it's so important that you guys know I think that the L Word had a huge impact on moving the needle forward for gay rights."

Kate discusses the show's unplanned yet serendipitous success:

• Kate Moennig [13:56]: "Timing was perfectly lined up. It was a lightning in a bottle moment that none of us could predict."

Abby emphasizes the show's forward-thinking portrayal:

• Abby Wambach [17:27]: "I just think it's so important that you guys know I think that the L Word had a huge impact on moving the needle forward for gay rights."

Personal Journeys of Coming Out

Leisha and Kate share their personal experiences with coming out, highlighting the pressures and expectations placed upon them as public figures.

• Kate Moennig [38:01]: "I was thinking about this the other day and how there seems to have been a shift in people respecting one's boundaries and how they want to come out publicly."

Leisha reflects on the constant scrutiny:

• Leisha Hailey [39:52]: "There was a lot around it and that was very weird to me."

Kate discusses the challenge of maintaining authenticity amidst external pressures:

• Kate Moennig [40:11]: "I just lived my life. I just was out. I just didn't do the Declaration on a magazine cover because that didn't feel right to me."

Abby shares her struggle with internalized homophobia and the fear of being pigeonholed:

• Abby Wambach [41:03]: "I was afraid if I came out that the world would only look at all of my teammates, who most of them were actually straight at the time..."

Challenges Faced by LGBTQ+ Individuals in Media

The guests discuss the evolving landscape of LGBTQ+ representation and the commercialization of queer identities.

• Kate Moennig [46:54]: "I understand, though, why they would say they don't want it. Because there is this feeling of inauthenticity. Like, oh, it's the right thing to do now. It's the trend to support the community when it benefits them."

Leisha emphasizes the importance of authentic representation:

• Leisha Hailey [48:14]: "We are like everybody. I don't know. It's a very difficult thing to answer."

Friendship and Support Systems

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the strength of Leisha and Kate's friendship and its role in their personal and professional lives.

• Kate Moennig [30:05]: "I was coming into her sexuality, and I think we just sort of had this nice little bond, like, almost like an older sister. But equal."

Leisha highlights the mutual support they provided each other:

• Leisha Hailey [30:52]: "It was like having your buddy that understood all the gay stuff or the dynamics like I was having with my girlfriend or Kate was dating someone. We just kind of had each other's backs at the time."

Current State of LGBTQ+ Representation

The conversation moves to the present-day context of LGBTQ+ representation, reflecting on how times have changed and the ongoing challenges.

• Abby Wambach [47:31]: "Bringing it all back, bringing it back, bringing it back."

Kate critiques the superficial support from corporations:

• Kate Moennig [46:54]: "Because there is this feeling of inauthenticity. Like, oh, it's the right thing to do now. It's the trend to support the community when it benefits them."

Reflections and Conclusion

As the episode draws to a close, Leisha and Kate express gratitude for the opportunity to share their stories and reflect on the enduring power of authentic friendships within the LGBTQ+ community.

• Leisha Hailey [50:58]: "We're fans of both of you, and this has been such a pleasure to talk to you."
• Kate Moennig [51:07]: "Yeah, thank you so much for having us on. And yeah, let's do this off the mic."

Abby encourages listeners to support their book:

• Abby Wambach [51:02]: "Yeah, let's hang out people. Get the book so Gay for Your which is the best title ever."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Kate Moennig [05:38]: "We met in a very echoey hallway on Wilshire Boulevard in Century City..."
• Leisha Hailey [27:02]: "The surprise to all of us was how close we became and how the on-screen dynamic became parallel to what we were experiencing off-screen."
• Kate Moennig [38:01]: "There seems to have been a shift in people respecting one's boundaries and how they want to come out publicly."
• Abby Wambach [17:27]: "The L Word had a huge impact on moving the needle forward for gay rights."
• Kate Moennig [40:11]: "I just lived my life. I just was out. I just didn't do the Declaration on a magazine cover because that didn't feel right to me."

Conclusion

This episode of We Can Do Hard Things offers a heartfelt exploration of Leisha Hailey and Kate Moennig's friendship and their pivotal roles in The L Word. Through candid conversations, they shed light on the complexities of coming out, the pressures of representation, and the unwavering support that sustains them. Their stories underscore the importance of authentic connections and the ongoing journey toward greater acceptance and understanding within society.

Transcript

[Glennon Doyle]

Y' all, the gorgeous new weather is here and you know what that means. We are talking linen, poplin, gingham, tencel, all those soft easy fabrics that make us happy to be alive. And I want to tell you that you can get the highest quality, ethically sourced, honestly priced pieces in these beloved materials. At Quince I picked up their 100% European linen fitted tank for under 40 bucks, Tencel jersey fit and flare dress for under 50 bucks. They are super breathable, super high quality and look so cute. Plus they are upping their game in shoes and bags and jewelry with pieces that feel super special but are easy and practical for everyday wear. Give your summer closet an upgrade with quints. Go to quints.comhardthings for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q U I N C E D.com hard things to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com hard things let's be honest.

[Abby Wambach]

Finding supplements you actually trust these days. It's a challenge. So many are packed with fillers, vague natural flavors and ingredients I can't even pronounce. Taking care of your body shouldn't feel like decoding a science experiment. That's why I've totally fallen for Symbiotica. They're changing the game with clean science backed supplements that actually feel good to take and my body loves them. One of my staples right now is the magnesium L threonate. It's this creamy vanilla flavor that helps me wind down in the evening. I just squeeze it straight from the pouch. No pills, no mixing, just go and their liposomal vitamin C obsessed. It tastes like a creamsicle. Go to symbiotica.com glennon to get 20% off plus free shipping. That's C Y M B I o t I k a dot com Glennon for 20% off plus free shipping.

[Amanda Doyle]

Hi.

[Leisha Hailey]

We're very excited about this.

[Amanda Doyle]

We're very excited about this. It has been for some time.

[Kate Moennig]

Oh good. We're all excited. Thank you for having us today.

[Amanda Doyle]

Oh thanks for coming. Leisha Haley is an actor, director, executive producer, musician and podcaster. Haley is best known for her beloved breakout character Alice Piscki in the revolutionary Showtime series the L Word and the reboot the L Word Generation Q. Before making her mark on screen, Leisha co founded the band the Murmurs, recording three albums and touring worldwide including with Lilith Fair. More than a decade later, Haley co founded the indie pop band Uhuh her which toured internationally and sold albums worldwide. Kate Menig is a Critically acclaimed actor and executive producer whose work spans film, television, and theater. She is most known for her iconic role as Shane McCutcheon and in the Showtime series the L Word and the reboot the L Word, Generation Q. She's also starred in Showtime's hit series Ray Donovan and in Freeform's breakout series Grownish. Most recently, she can be seen in Liz Feldman's series no Good Deed on Netflix. And she currently co hosts the podcast Pants, which we love with Kate and Leisha. Leisha and Kate's new book, so Gay for your, is a D light, and it is on same. Welcome, Lisha and Kate.

[Kate Moennig]

You're our first interview about this book, by the way, just so you know.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yes.

[Kate Moennig]

You're getting us fresh as daisies here.

[Amanda Doyle]

That's really exciting. Fresh as daisies. Okay. Well, I enjoyed every word of your book.

[Kate Moennig]

I thank you.

[Amanda Doyle]

Feel like writers are always talking about, like, what's your favorite first line of any book? And so I have to ask you first to share. I think there's a new contender for great. People have mentioned Anna Karena. Whatever. I think it's you guys. Believe me, I have told this story maybe 30 times. Abby knows it's my new dinner party story. Okay, tell us the story about when someone sat you down and the L word was just a glimmer in someone's eye. And someone said to you, have you heard about the lesbian pilot?

[Leisha Hailey]

Yes.

[Amanda Doyle]

And you said.

[Leisha Hailey]

Oh, did they find Amelia Earhart? So I studied acting, but I was living in Hollywood and had no idea how Hollywood worked or what pilots were, or the word testing. Like, all these things I learned later was just jargon I didn't understand. So I had no idea what this person was saying to me when they asked me this.

[Amanda Doyle]

The lesbian pilot, Amelia Earhart.

[Abby Wambach]

So good.

[Leisha Hailey]

Well, and, you know, I don't need to like out Amelia Earhart by any means, because she's not here to defend herself or, you know, speak to it firsthand. But, like, she seems like our people.

[Amanda Doyle]

The signs are there. Okay. One of the things I love, so many things about your book and learning so much about you, but one of my favorite things is your friendship. So talk to us about when you first met. Can you tell us the story and all that you remember about each other?

[Kate Moennig]

We met in a very echoey hallway on Wilshire Boulevard in Century city, on the 14th floor at the Showtime offices on a hard bench. I remember that.

[Leisha Hailey]

Why do you remember the hard bench?

[Kate Moennig]

Because it was uncomfortable. The whole experience had an element of feeling uncomfortable. And you're a little on edge because of the circumstances. And it was hot and I just remembered the senses I had.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yeah. And the bright lights, that office lighting.

[Kate Moennig]

That awful lighting that does no one any favors. Yeah. Yeah.

[Leisha Hailey]

But we were young enough at the time. Who needed good lighting then.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah.

[Leisha Hailey]

We took everything true back then.

[Kate Moennig]

We took it all for granted.

[Leisha Hailey]

Totally.

[Amanda Doyle]

We really did, didn't we?

[Leisha Hailey]

I love a fluorescent. No problem.

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah, it's fine. I'm always gonna look like this.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Kate Moennig]

What are you talking about?

[Leisha Hailey]

Can I just say, when Kate walked in, honestly, like, and I know her so well at this point, like, her face is like, I don't know, secondhand to me, but she was like a creature from another planet. Like, I've never seen beauty like Leisha. See, I'm serious. You were like, unlike any person I had ever seen before.

[Kate Moennig]

Really?

[Leisha Hailey]

Yeah.

[Kate Moennig]

And I'm not fishing for a compliment by any means, but I never have heard you say that. And that's a very big thing to say.

[Leisha Hailey]

Well, I know it sounds odd, but I'm describing my feeling. When you first rounded the corner, I was sort of awestruck at your beauty. And not in a crushy way. I'd never, by the way, ever had a crush on Kate. We never crushed on each other.

[Kate Moennig]

No.

[Leisha Hailey]

I mean, I don't know if you did on me.

[Kate Moennig]

No. I don't think we'd be in this place today if there was that little bit of funniness throughout these 27 odd years.

[Leisha Hailey]

Who needs that, right? But no, you were like the androgyny and the lips and the clothes. I mean, we've all seen it on the show, but, like, I saw her in person before. It was just like, what the. You know?

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah. And when I met Lisha, I thought, oh, I've seen your face on my television selling probiotics for like the last five years. And I felt like I knew you. I was like, oh, right, her.

[Leisha Hailey]

I'm very familiar.

[Kate Moennig]

But at that time, don't forget, that commercial was everywhere.

[Leisha Hailey]

It was everywhere. Yeah.

[Kate Moennig]

And that was back when we watched television with commercials and it was on at least five times throughout a show or a movie.

[Leisha Hailey]

I know. It got me through a couple of years in a tight spot.

[Kate Moennig]

I respect that.

[Amanda Doyle]

You were both auditioning to be Shane at that point, is that right?

[Abby Wambach]

Yes.

[Amanda Doyle]

Get out.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yes.

[Abby Wambach]

That's amazing. That's so. That jumbles my mind.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yeah. Disbelief.

[Kate Moennig]

Oh, but that we were both playing Shane.

[Abby Wambach]

That you were both trying to go for Shane.

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah. I was in New York when this happened, so my Manager said, there's gonna be only one other person testing for Shane. And she offered. She's like, I can suss out and figure out who it is. And I said, no, no, no, no, no. I was like, I'll see them soon enough. It's okay. But now, I didn't realize we would be the only two period. I thought maybe on another day they'd bring some more. But the way it was presented at the time was it was just gonna be you and I.

[Leisha Hailey]

And you said, describe me, because I know, like, it's hard for me to even believe that was real. But it was very real at the time. But I looked like I was a little edgier. Right. I could have been Shane a little bit, maybe.

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah, I remember you had. There was a lot of color. Leisha's a very colorful person. She'll always have some sort of interesting color palette on that's complimentary. And no one in New York, where I live. And so when I showed up, she had a pair of customized vintage Levi's. I recall bedazzling was very popular at that time. I don't think they were bedazzled. I'm not gonna throw you under the bus with that.

[Leisha Hailey]

Well, more like. A little more studded. Not like rhinestones.

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah, but there could have been a few studs, now that I'm thinking. But more importantly, there was a lot of patchwork, and there was very elaborate tiger or something on. On your coat. It was just. There was. It was a lot of very curated, well thought out flair. And I mean that with all respect in the world.

[Leisha Hailey]

Thank you.

[Kate Moennig]

And you had a pair of beat up boots on, and you had a cute haircut. And I was like, oh, okay. I thought, that makes sense. Like, it made sense when I saw you. But I also saw Leesha when I walked in to sign at the reception desk, and I saw the back of her head, and I saw a bunch of wispy things sticking out. And I thought, oh, that's her.

[Leisha Hailey]

Meaning my hair, not my cheeks.

[Kate Moennig]

Your wispy back of your hair. I thought, no, that's.

[Abby Wambach]

So I have to ask, though, like, when you're about to go read for this part, what the hell with that? Like, are you, like, side eyeing each other or are you actually friendly in this process? Most of our listeners probably have no background in acting auditions, but, like, what is that? Like, when you're sitting next to somebody?

[Kate Moennig]

Well, every actor has their own method, I think, for how they're gonna get through that awkward moment. Some people get competitive Other people brush it aside. Other people try to psych someone out. You know, there's varying ways of how to handle. Then there's overtly friendly ones.

[Leisha Hailey]

Oh, people love to chit chat. The chit chatters too, to throw you.

[Kate Moennig]

Off, or maybe not even throwing you off, but they do it to sort of normalize this very uncomfortable environment we're in, which is anything but normal. How did we do it? I think I'm not a believer in the competition and the psych outs. I just believe in just staying in your own peace of mind and being friendly. But we didn't really talk. We sort of gave it a low.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kate Moennig]

We're both shy.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yeah. Very shy.

[Kate Moennig]

And we just said, hey, how are you? Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you. And then it was some awkward silences and some funny, like, side eyes that we gave each other. Like, oh, well, here we are. When is this gonna start? Cause we were waiting for so long to go in, remember?

[Leisha Hailey]

Yes. And we heard all the girls auditioning for Jenny. You could hear overhear their auditions, which was also, like, you never want that.

[Kate Moennig]

People love to place actors right outside of the audition room. And the only thing dividing us versus the people inside the room is either a very thin wall of, like, drywall or a glass panel. So you hear everything. So we were in that place for about 35 minutes. And when you went in first, I said, break your face or good luck or something.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yeah.

[Kate Moennig]

Then when you were done, you just dipped. You left.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yeah. I said goodbye to you. Yeah, you did.

[Kate Moennig]

But once you get out of that room, you're like, whew. Made it okay.

[Leisha Hailey]

Let's go home. Yeah.

[Amanda Doyle]

So what was your next contact? And how did you become so close that people started calling you pants? I think that was Jenny. Right. So when the L Word came out, I was married to a man living in the most conservative county in Florida, had three children, and was a Sunday school teacher at an evangelical church. So I wasn't aware of the L Word. I just watched it after reading your book. Wait, I am? Yeah. I have What?

[Leisha Hailey]

Yes.

[Kate Moennig]

Wait, let me hear this correctly. You just watched the original show after you read this book.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yes. And I watched it like this, a lot of it, because one of my best friends is Alex Hedison, and she told me that her boobs are in the show. So I was so scared that Alex's boobs were gonna pop out at me. When Jodi and Alex are out, and somebody walks up to Alex and says, I saw you on the L Word. Every time the person walks away. Jodi goes. She's seen your boobs.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yep. They've all. Yeah. All of our boobs. No, Alex's boobs are definitely on the show. Dylan. Right. Dylan was a young character.

[Glennon Doyle]

Mm.

[Leisha Hailey]

The documentarian.

[Kate Moennig]

Yes. Who dated Helena.

[Leisha Hailey]

Helena Peabody.

[Kate Moennig]

But she was on for a number of years, so. Yes, I'm sure she was topless. Just like the rest of us.

[Amanda Doyle]

Just like the rest of you. Tell. The people who, like me, were not conscious of the L word somehow because it was probably blocked from our radio waves in those specific cities.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yeah.

[Amanda Doyle]

Can you tell us in a nutshell, or any way you feel like it, what the phenomenon of the L word was? What was is the L word in the world?

[Leisha Hailey]

Wow. That's a good question.

[Kate Moennig]

That's a big question. Timing, I think, is. Well, timing is everything in life. And that shows. Timing was perfectly lined up. And that wasn't planned. It just happened. And that was a lightning in a bottle moment that none of us could predict. We all felt it when we were making the pilot. We knew what we were doing was special. Right, Leesh?

[Leisha Hailey]

But, yes, very.

[Kate Moennig]

You can't control the outcome in any way, and it took on a life of its own. And look, you're watching it now after you read our book. So that's a trip.

[Amanda Doyle]

I told Abby, I'm all caught up. I'm finally caught up on lesbian culture. She said, you're caught up from a while back. We need to catch you up further. So that's what we're doing here.

[Leisha Hailey]

That is. I think that's an important place to start. I don't know if you're a responsible gay if you haven't seen that L word.

[Abby Wambach]

I feel that it's true. And, like, I don't know when the first year was that it aired.

[Kate Moennig]

0404. Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

And so I'm 23, 24, baby. Dyke, lesbian. And I don't know, I just want you guys to understand, and I'm sure you've heard it from a million people, but being in the sports world for so many years, my queerness was difficult because so much of what, women athletes, how we make our money. The big parts of making our money are endorsement deals. Right. And being seen in commercials. I mean, this is a storyline that happened in the very first season of the L Word. How Dana. How is she interacting with the corporate world of endorsement deals for pro athletes?

[Kate Moennig]

Sure.

[Abby Wambach]

And so for me, coming from, you know, a Catholic upbringing and really, I mean, like, at the time, it felt like lesbians were like, this it was like this underground thing.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yes, you nailed it.

[Abby Wambach]

And kind of cool and mysterious. And then when the L Word came out, and by the way, it is very provocative, there was no holding back. And for me, like, I respected that so much. I was just like, it was so fucking ahead of its time. There was parts of me that I was like, oh my gosh, don't show so much boobs. Because I was hoping this was a show made for lesbians, not for popular culture. And yes, I was like so into it. But I was also in this weird. I only really had a lot of straight friends. I didn't have a lot of queer friends. I mean, yes, I had like athlete friends who happened to be queer, but I was like straddling this time where I'm trying to get a lot of straight people to understand what a queer person is. That we're just like the rest of us. Like we're normal. We're like, we put our pants on. Same way maybe we put different kinds of pants on, you know, like, but we're still people. Studded pants. Yes. But I just think it's so important that you guys know I think that the L Word had a huge impact on moving the needle forward for gay rights. And I know a lot of that is being complicated and with what's going on right now in our current government, but I just. You guys made such an impact on me personally because I just kept thinking, well, I just basically wanted to be Shane, like every like lesbian watching the L Word. I wanted to be your character Kate.

[Amanda Doyle]

I wanted to be Alice.

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah, I don't know how well, I don't know if that's aged well in the year 2025, but in 2005 it certainly was the peak every everyone seemed interested in.

[Abby Wambach]

That's right. That's right.

[Amanda Doyle]

Wait, why hasn't it aged well?

[Kate Moennig]

Because she was. I always kind of see it as she was a bit polarizing. Especially now because what she did many people would find not only unethical but cruel and teetering on inappropriate because our lenses have changed so much since we were on. And so that's why I say I don't know how well she's aged now in the year of 2025.

[Abby Wambach]

That's interesting.

[Kate Moennig]

You know, in 2004, 2005, it was being written based on what people knew and the knowledge they had. And you know, and that has to be considered.

[Abby Wambach]

I think that we are coming full circle though because Gen Z kids, there's a push towards non committal, more non committal relationships. Which is I think in a lot of ways what Shane was for me that was like I'm such a monogamous. I'm like second date u haul for sure lesbian. Like that's my personality. But now they're like into the dating apps, you know.

[Kate Moennig]

Oh good. Then maybe, maybe Shane will hopefully come back around and maybe inspire in a better way.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Kate Moennig]

Foreign.

[Glennon Doyle]

This podcast is brought to you by Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues. It's that time of year again. The flowers are blooming and birds are chirping and also that time when allergies can test you and show up when you least expect. But with Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues, you can be ready to face them. Whether it's sneezes or watery eyes. You don't want to be caught without a tissue on hand to help. Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues are gentle on eyes and noses. They're for all the moments at home and on the go that allergies can disrupt this allergy season. Be better prepared with Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues, which are allergist approved so you can go on with your day. Life and allergies can both be unpredictable, but you can be prepared for that time of year by making sure you've always got Kleenex Ultra Soft Tissues ready for whatever happens next. Grab Kleenex. I have been using Bokeh for a few months now and it is a feel good part of my daily routine. Bokeh is this toothpaste that doesn't feel like toothpaste. It feels like a sort of little delight. The flavors there is this flavor called lemon lavender. It's so refreshing. It's a little bit surprising and it makes brushing your teeth feel more like a moment of self care and spa than chore. They use this thing that is a fluoride alternative that's inspired by nature and backed by science. It's actually a mineral your teeth are made of, so it helps strengthen and protect your enamel in a gentle way. And if you have teeth like mine, which chip if you're even looking at them, this is the way to go. For a limited time, Bokeh is offering listeners 15% off its best selling toothpastes on Amazon and bokeh.com with code Glennon15. That's Glennon15. Make the switch to Boca for the whole family.

[Abby Wambach]

Owning a small business means wearing all the hats all the time, including recruiter. That's why I rely on LinkedIn jobs. It works as hard as I do. I've used LinkedIn to find some of the best people on my team. It's easy to post a job, share it with my network, and get a steady flow of qualified candidates all in one place. I especially love the new feature that helps write job descriptions. Huge time saver. And when you post on LinkedIn, you're not just getting resumes, you're getting insightful candidates. Based on LinkedIn's data, 72% of small businesses say LinkedIn helped them find high quality talent. And I totally get why. You can even boost your post for more visibility or add a hashtag hiring frame to your profile pic, which actually helps you get twice as many qualified applicants. More than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring because it works. Post your job for [e-mail] hardthings that's LinkedIn.com hardthings to post your job for free. Terms and conditions apply.

[Leisha Hailey]

I had a question. You were saying that when you were like, oh, don't show your boobs, was it like you were worried it was going to, like, take it back or make it. I'm so curious about what you said.

[Abby Wambach]

That was cool. I was worried. I come from like, the puritan culture, so, like, even with my kids now, when they're wearing like really short, they don't believe that butts are off limits. Like buttocks. They think ankles are. You do not show your ankles, but you can show your. The fullness of your buttock.

[Amanda Doyle]

Asses. Butt, not a private part. Yeah, Ankles.

[Abby Wambach]

Inappropriate. And I am a little bit like, let's just cover it all up just because of the conditioning that I had. And I was actually a little bit afraid. I didn't realize that no straight people were really watching the L word at the time. But I was afraid if they would watch it, that they would think that we're just like, all we're doing all day is walking around with our shirts off. I know it to be very. I know it's not that. And you guys weren't always taking your shirts off. You were a lot. There were. Every episode there was boobs.

[Amanda Doyle]

So it was your version of like, respectability politics. Like, don't be too that because then they won't think we're good and the.

[Abby Wambach]

Line of thinking is incorrect. The way that I was feeling about it was not analyzed or therapized in any way. I think very differently about it now, but there's a part of me that really does.

[Amanda Doyle]

I like what Alicia said in the book, though, when she was talking about how people were saying don't show so much. It's like, for the male gaze. Don't make it about the male gaze. And she was like, well, lesbians have a gaze too. We're gazing.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yeah, that's exactly like. I always felt like what people. What they hadn't seen yet was that we sexualize each other. And so it just was like a foreign concept that we objectify sometimes. You know, we like women to women. We can do that. And I don't think people really ever sat back and thought about that. They were like, that obviously has to be. A man wrote that or a man is directing that or women don't do that. And to me, that was kind of exciting that we were doing that also.

[Kate Moennig]

Considering that entire production was run by women.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yes. And written by.

[Kate Moennig]

And written by, I'd say 90, 95%.

[Abby Wambach]

Wow.

[Leisha Hailey]

And 95% gay women, you know?

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah, yeah.

[Amanda Doyle]

What was it like being a part of all of that at the time? For me, one of the things, I think that this. An unexpected beauty of this book was for me, being a person who came out when rainbows were in every Old Navy and on the White House. And everybody was like, yay, queers. Anyway, it was kind of like, isn't.

[Leisha Hailey]

As bad as they said.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yeah, everybody loves me.

[Leisha Hailey]

Being gay is a breeze.

[Kate Moennig]

I don't know what else are they talking about.

[Amanda Doyle]

But it's an interesting dynamic between the two of us sometimes because we have such. So the bad thing about that is re entering the time we're in now feels differently daunting to me than it does to Abby because she's like, yeah, this is gonna suck. But we've been here before. And in lots of ways it was fucking awesome. It was scary and different. And there's so much in your book that made me like, oh, oh. Like the beauty, the way you guys lived with each other in LA at that time, it felt so vibrant and strong and gorgeous and like community based and.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yes, yes. And especially like New York in the 90s. Like, that's where I really felt like I understood it all, like, what it meant. And it felt like what you were saying, Abby, like, it was like sort of underground. And there was a rebelliousness to it, you know, and it was like when we hit the streets, it would be like Gay Pride Day. It was like we all came out of the woodworks and we were like, yeah, we're here. You know? And it was just like that one day you could come out and say it and be it and feel it, and otherwise we had to figure out how to live in the world. And it wasn't easy navigating your day to day.

[Kate Moennig]

Also living in the moment too. It's just you don't realize it until you look back in hindsight and you think, oh, right, well, that was an incredible time. Or that was a challenging time, or that was a dark time. And we were just so busy just living in the moment that the only time we ever would really reflect on it truly was through this book deeply.

[Amanda Doyle]

Tell us a story about that time. Like when you remember those, that beautiful era that you were all in that together, what pops out the most for you?

[Kate Moennig]

Finding adventure on random days. And it could be as simple as deciding to go out to a new coffee shop that so and so has just discovered all the way across town on Commercial Drive. But let's go check it out because it seems fun and why not? And just going on some random Canadian adventure to get this coffee or this lunch spot and it would just turn into this sort of comedy of errors.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yeah. I think if, speaking like, like if we're talking about the show and that era, I think the surprise to all of us was how close we became and how the on screen dynamic became parallel to what we were experiencing off screen. And I think to me that was sort of the secret to the whole entire show that no one really knew. It wasn't like the cameras rolled and we were like, okay, let's play best friends. It was really happening, you know, and all the, the hours when we weren't on set, we would have every meal together, we lived together, we'd spend our weekends together, we traveled together. And so it just. One bled into the other and it just really made this nice realistic connection.

[Abby Wambach]

And I can imagine there's difficulty. I mean, I've been on teams my whole life and I love and respect so many of my teammates. And not every day. There was some hard moments that we had to deal with. Was there ever like a fight or something that happened while you were taping, that happened off screen that like affected could affect the actual taping of the show?

[Kate Moennig]

It wasn't a drama filled set. Contrary to what people may assume, everyone gets on each other's nerves at some point. I mean, Lisa wrote about when two of us were roommates with Mia. With Mia, we got in ridiculous arguments and 20 minutes later we'd be laughing. Cause we wouldn't remember what it was we were fighting about. Cause it got so in the weeds of nothingness.

[Leisha Hailey]

Look, I mean, like you're saying like a team is definitely the same as a cast, right?

[Amanda Doyle]

Sure.

[Leisha Hailey]

There's off days. People, like Kate said, they get on each other's nerves. Maybe something happened in the transpo van on the way to set that morning, and it's like everybody in the makeup chair is like, ooh, you know, but it's like it's nothing that lasts or was like a true barrier between anybody. Even if there were dynamics that. It's just not the book we wanted to write where it was like a tell all or, you know, we wanted to really just like, celebrate and like, basically write a love letter to that time in our lives.

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah. Also the memories of any. That sort of acrimony, I don't actually have them. Whereas writing about the times that I remember, to actually have, like, this joyous feeling behind it, because that's what I believe. I. And the rest of us took away from it more than anything. So if someone wanted. If our editor even said, well, what were some down times? I'd honestly be hard pressed to remember one.

[Abby Wambach]

And so, like, would you say that that was like, some of the happiest times of your. Not just like, your acting lives, but your personal lives too? Because it feels like there was so much overlap between the joy that you were getting and you said you were filming in Canada. Was that where you filmed every season?

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

Ooh, Vancouver. I love that place.

[Amanda Doyle]

How did you become so close? Tell us about the evolution of your friendship leash.

[Leisha Hailey]

Well, I was the only outcast member at the time, and Kate. And you can speak more about this yourself, but Kate was coming into her sexuality, and I think we just sort of had this nice little bond, like, almost like an older sister. But equal. Yeah, very equal. Not like I'm old and wise, but, like, I don't know, we just kind of. Right away it was like, oh, you. Yeah, we're gonna be it just. And then obviously our characters were friends, and I think there was just an authenticity to Kate that I was drawn to. And I appreciated what we had in common, you know, even our sexuality. It was just a nice. It was like having your buddy that understood all the. The gay stuff or the dynamics like I was having with my girlfriend or Kate was dating someone. You know, we just kind of had each other's backs at the time.

[Kate Moennig]

I remember it being immediate, and it's that thing so when you find your people, you just. Your body knows, your spirit knows. And we didn't see each other again until Vancouver, and Leisha was the first person I saw in the production office, and I was relieved to see her because I was genuinely wondering, is she gonna be on the show because she didn't get the part, so who would she be playing? And I didn't know that they were restructuring anything. And I didn't think to ask my manager or anyone who else is cast. Like, I never thought of asking that. So I just blindly got on the plane and flew to Vancouver and was kind of wondering who's gonna be there outside of Pam and Jennifer. So I sort of saw that. I can see that looking back. Oh, that was. This was meant to be. This was destined in some way or another. Because the chances of, you know, feeling that, like, it was a subtle connection at the audition, although. Because all the other energy was sort of taking it over, but still there was that subtle curiosity I had and then to actually see that person again and, oh, we're going to be on the show together from day one. Doesn't happen like that. Rarely. And then guess what, it's gonna last for six years, technically 20 if we're really gonna do the math.

[Leisha Hailey]

And then another three with the reboot.

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah. So it was just meant to be.

[Abby Wambach]

Now, you don't have to talk about this if you don't want to, but you were kind of coming out at the time. Lysha said, that's, like, so interesting to me. Did, like, playing the character of Shane help you learn more about your personal self and your personal coming out story? Kate?

[Kate Moennig]

I think the show in general helped me find a place in the world that felt safe to explore it. Not that I was in an unsafe place prior to that. It just. It was just this very warm environment and accepting environment. And because sexuality was on the forefront of the show's message and unapologetically so, everyone embraced it. I'm sure, truthfully, if even if I played a role like Alice or Dana, it would have the same kind of effect on me if I didn't play Shane. Shane was just sort of this amped up version of who I wasn't, by the way. But it was sort of like, oh, so this is what the world looks like in a very extreme version of the opposite of what I've experienced in life thus far. Can't say I agree with her, but. But okay, so that's what that looks like. And so it just was really more the people and the experience within it that gave me solace.

[Leisha Hailey]

I suppose you've also said that watching Eileen, because there were a lot of people in these long relationships, they had children and you were like, oh, wow, that's. So you can be gay and have all that too.

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah, it was just sort of like another day. It was just like here's another day. And there's Eileen with her wife and her two kids. Yeah. And then there's Leisha with her long term relationship. And oh, this is what it's like to live in la. Because LA was very foreign to me so I didn't know how people lived in la. And when I got to LA after the pilot I realized, oh, this is based in reality. A heightened version of it, but it's certainly based in what really exists here. I had, I had no idea. Oh well, now this makes sense.

[Amanda Doyle]

Cool. Most people don't realize that traditional non stick cookware still contains harmful toxins, including pfas, also known as forever chemicals. These can leach into food, pollute the environment and even linger in your home. In fact, studies have shown that a single scratch on a nonstick pan can release thousands of plastic particles. That's where our place comes in. They make toxin free high performance cookware designed for safer, healthier home cooking without sacrificing style or performance. Their four piece cookware set includes two always pans and two perfect pots in both full and mini sizes. These multitaskers replace a whole cabinet's worth of bulky cookware and with the Bundle you save $150 compared to buying each piece individually. It's a smarter, safer way to cook at home. Stop cooking with toxic cookware and upgrade to our place today. Visit fromourplace.com hardthings and use code hardthings for 10% off site wide with hundred day risk free trial free shipping and returns, you can experience this game changing cookware with zero risk.

[Glennon Doyle]

Father's Day is right around the corner, so let Macy's be your guide to finding the perfect gift for dad or any of the important men in your life. Whether he's into style, grilling, travel or tech, Macy's has something he'll actually use and love. Explore top brands like Lacoste, Calvin Klein, Tommy Hilfiger, Hugo Boss and more. From classic polos and tailored shirts to the latest in activewear, shoes and fragrance gift sets from names like Armani, YSL and Gucci. The options are endless. And if you're shopping for a grill king, gamer or Globetrotter, Macy's Gift Guide includes BBQ gadgets, barware, electronics, watches and even travel accessories. Neat ideas. Macy's has done the thinking for you. Thank God. Just browse the Father's Day Gift Guide online for thoughtful picks by category, interest and price. Shop now@macy's.com and make this Father's Day one he'll never forget. It's an interesting time for business. Tariffs and trade policies are shifting, supply chains are under pressure and cash flow tighter than ever. This means businesses need to adapt in real time. That's where NetSuite by Oracle comes in. Your AI powered business management suite. Trusted by over 41,000 companies worldwide, NetSuite is the number one cloud ERP, bringing accounting, financials, inventory and HR into one seamless system. You get one source of truth so you can make fast, informed decisions with confidence. With real time forecasting and AI automation, NetSuite helps you predict challenges, streamline operations and stay strategic no matter what the market throws at you.

[Amanda Doyle]

Netsuite.

[Glennon Doyle]

Know what's stuck, know what's costing you, and know how to pivot fast. It's one system, full control. Tame the chaos with NetSuite. If your revenues are at least in the seven figures, download the free ebook Navigating Global Trade. Three insights for leaders at netsuite.com hardthings that's netsuite.com hardthings.

[Amanda Doyle]

Didn'T somebody say to you, I think this was you? Someone said, you don't have to come out, just be out, just live out.

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah, that was Liz Feldman. Yeah. Yeah.

[Amanda Doyle]

What do you guys think in general about the whole concept of coming out? We talk about this in our family all the time because we have little. Little queers, old queers, middle people. We have all the people in our family, so. And they think about it so differently. What do you guys think about it?

[Kate Moennig]

I was thinking about this the other day and how there, like, there seems to have been a shift in people respecting one's boundaries and how they want to come out publicly. And I think of Billie Eilish who got outed on the red carpet, and she directly said, are you outing me? Whereas 20 years ago, like 2005ish, there would have been an expectation, like an entitlement to knowing. And I thought that was interesting that now she was able to call that out and she was applauded. She wasn't put down for it personally. Everyone can do what they like. I believe everyone should trust their own rhythm, their own internal rhythm of how they want to do it. And it should never be because you're being pressured or forced or because it's not lining up with another's timeline, because I think that will wind up doing more harm than good. But that's me.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yeah. And I think, you know, back then there was a lot of pressure. If you were in the public eye, you two can Speak to this too. Like, it was almost like, okay, well, it's your responsibility to let people know, you know, because we need people as representation out there. The more the merrier. Right. If the world sees how many of us there are, how great is that gonna be? And I kind of get that concept. I was already out when the show came around, so it wasn't like I had a big coming out, so I didn't really have to feel the pressure. But I can say that there was a lot of focus on me because I was the only out one. And it was strange. It was almost like not using me. I don't wanna say the network used me, but it was like I legitimized the show. They would often say that as a tagline or it would be the first question asked. So you're really gay. So you're the only gay one. So, like, who else is gay, though? There was a lot around it and that was very weird to me.

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah, they always had Alicia Haley, the one out lesbian of the cast. Yeah, yeah. It was just that it was pointed.

[Amanda Doyle]

That's so much pressure.

[Kate Moennig]

But on the flip side of that, I also felt it because it's like, oh, I'm not living up to people's expectations, but what good am I gonna really do anyone? Just to fulfill your need.

[Amanda Doyle]

I know.

[Kate Moennig]

To get that information out now when I'm not ready.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yeah. And you could tell it was angering so some of the journalists that either I wouldn't answer about Kate or Kate wasn't answering about herself.

[Kate Moennig]

I got a lot of passive aggression thrown in my way because I wasn't giving them what they wanted. But I always would think, so you're gonna feel good about yourself. Cause you can go home and say, I got her, but how am I gonna feel? Because I'm not ready to talk about it. Cause I don't really know what this means yet to me. Also, I'm wildly inexperienced up to a certain extent, so what do I have to share? But if you get to feel good, well, I guess that's all that matters, right? And so I just. I rebelled and I said, no, you're actually not going to get it. Sorry.

[Amanda Doyle]

Were you getting that pressure from the queer community too? I imagine that there was a whole. The reporters just wanted to get the scoop. But was it?

[Kate Moennig]

Oh, yeah, all of it. All of it.

[Leisha Hailey]

But it wasn't even just getting the scoop. It felt like. Like I was saying, like, you're gay, you have to come out like people.

[Abby Wambach]

Deserved the answer and like you were the spokesperson. And then they really wanted more of you Leash, like, Kate, you have to come out for us. It's bullshit, and it's so unfair because it's not on your own time. And, I mean, I didn't end up coming out until 2013 when I was, like, married. I was like, this is what happened. And I look back at that time, and I like, you know, hindsight's 2020 in a way, but, like, I feel bad for that part of myself, for those very scared and fearful parts. And we were living in a very different time. It was very different.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yes, very different.

[Abby Wambach]

It was very scary to be the out one, because then you're the spokesperson. And I was also dealing with a team that I was afraid that if I came out that the world would only look at all of my teammates, who most of them were actually straight at the time, that we would be then classified as the gay team because I had so much internalized homophobia that lived inside of me that I didn't want to do that. So there's all these implications. And, Leisha, I just feel like, good job for being the out one. And, Kate, good job for holding your ground.

[Amanda Doyle]

Totally.

[Abby Wambach]

That had to have been so hard.

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah.

[Leisha Hailey]

I mean, it was then I recall.

[Kate Moennig]

It was. Yeah. But truthfully, the fact of the matter is, the people who were in my life, the people that were close to me, knew, and that's all I cared about. And the support system that I had with Leisha and the girls from the show, that's what counted to me.

[Abby Wambach]

Mm.

[Kate Moennig]

So thank you. But it really has to go for the community, my own people that I was around, who also took care of me as well.

[Amanda Doyle]

What were you gonna say?

[Leisha Hailey]

Lisa, thanks for saying that. It's. I kind of, like, back then, I would just think, like, well, just live authentically. Like, you don't have to be, you know, this, I don't know, picture perfect gay. The focus was pretty large. I remember feeling like, don't mess up, or I didn't like it all on me. Like, I just. That's what I'm saying. I didn't like it. And I would try to talk myself out of worrying about it. Kind of like what you had, Abby. Like, you don't want to mess the show up. You don't want to mess your life up. You don't want to mess your character, you know? And then also, the focus on our personal lives was very surprising. I didn't. You know, I thought we were on the show, and then people, like, the second they'd sit you down. They're like, tell me what's going on backstage. Tell me what's going on in your home. What are your friends doing? And you're just like, whoa. It's a weird part, but we got used to it. Right. After a while, we kind of, like, figured it out.

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah, we could kind of sniff out, okay, these things are gonna be ass now. So you learned a discern tone and approach pretty quickly.

[Amanda Doyle]

Was there like some interview or something, Kate, where you were just finally like, fuck it, and you just said, I'm gay. Or like, how? Or did you just live out loud? You never had a moment?

[Kate Moennig]

No, I just lived my life. I just was out. Like, it's just that thing that Liz Feldman said so perfectly. Just be out. That's what I was. And I always was. I just didn't do the Declaration on a magazine cover because that didn't feel right to me. Sorry if that was a disappointment, but it just felt really inauthentic to who I was as a person. So I said no.

[Amanda Doyle]

Good for you. Do you think that moving from the time you were in with this underground vibe that you're talking about into Old Navy Rainbow Land?

[Kate Moennig]

Corporate sponsorship.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yes.

[Kate Moennig]

Capitalism of the gays.

[Amanda Doyle]

The capitalism of the gays. Okay. Do you think that anything has been lost that can be reclaimed as we enter the time when lesbians are no longer capitalistically beneficial?

[Kate Moennig]

Well, that's on the companies. It's not on us.

[Amanda Doyle]

Well, I mean, like, the assimilation. Because there's a lot of people that we talk to that are mostly older lesbians, honestly, who are, like, won't say this out loud because it's too complicated and nuanced. But they're like, I didn't want this shit. I don't want any of this shit. I want it all to go away. I didn't ask for this. Like, everybody happy with me all the time. And they can't, like, verbalize it exactly, but they're pointing to something that was, like, something was lost.

[Kate Moennig]

I didn't want Nike shoes with rainbow flags on them. Like, I don't need that. That makes sense. I get it.

[Leisha Hailey]

I can say that part of. When I first moved to New York and I was 17, and I would, you know, sneak down to the cubbyhole. I did like that being gay was like other. I did like that I was sort of in this. I don't know, and I don't want to say secret group, but there was something special you felt. I don't know. And now that it's you know, gays are boring. We're boring. We're like. We're just like anybody else. But that was the point the whole time, is that we are like everybody. I don't know. It's a very difficult thing to answer.

[Kate Moennig]

I understand, though, why they would say they don't want it. Because there is this feeling of inauthenticity. Like, oh, it's the right thing to do now. It's the trend to support the community when it benefits them. And I mean them meaning the companies with the dollars who, you know, buy massive signage at the parades. And they're like. And they're like so and so for. And it rings hollow. And then suddenly when shit hits the fan, bye. And all of it's gone, and you're like, where did you go? I thought you were my friend. Oh, so we don't care about sneakers with rainbow flags on them anymore. Okay, thanks. And so I get it. Like, I understand.

[Abby Wambach]

I saw this video the other day that really rang true to me. And this person was talking about the difference between the word gay and queer and how we are born into our gayness, our sexuality, like, who we choose, and then we are choosing the lifestyle of queerness. Meaning we are kind of going against the grain, looking at the world through kind of this lens of questioning. And is that the way Non conformity, Non conformity. And I loved that. I was like, damn, that's right. Like, that feels really true to me.

[Amanda Doyle]

That's what I liked about the book.

[Abby Wambach]

Bringing it all back, bringing it back, bringing it back.

[Leisha Hailey]

It's just, like, so gayforyou.com.

[Amanda Doyle]

But I'm serious about this, like, because it felt like the goal can't be the grain. If you're going against the grain, then winning isn't just marriage. That kind of looks a lot like a heterosexual marriage. 3.5 children, the white picket fence, the old Navy. The grain isn't what the goal was. So the experiences that you discuss in your book, I mean, like, the commune living and the freedom and the friendship and, like, the friendships that are kind of, like, deeper than whatever Platonic is. Like, just.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yes.

[Amanda Doyle]

And like, you guys getting together, everyone just coming over to your house all the time, doors open, watching, by the way, when it was upstairs reading, screamed.

[Kate Moennig]

You'Re in their book.

[Amanda Doyle]

You're in their book.

[Leisha Hailey]

Of course.

[Amanda Doyle]

Cause they watched you play the sports.

[Leisha Hailey]

Yes.

[Amanda Doyle]

Like, so you guys were watching women's sports before. It was the grain. Just all of it felt so juicy and beautiful and queer. And so it gave me hope. Like, maybe that Juicy queerness will necessarily be brought back now that we're against the grain again.

[Kate Moennig]

But that's who we are.

[Leisha Hailey]

I love it. I love what you're saying.

[Kate Moennig]

I do, too. But I also don't think the problem isn't with us. And we're always gonna be who we are. We're always gonna, like, chosen family. That's part of our world. And for some, that's all they have. Right. So that's never gonna go away. And those. I love how you said, you know, friendships that are platonic, but they're deeper than that, a hundred percent. So that's always going to be there. So it's not us that's the problem. It's the people that are trying to capitalize off of it. And so I think what's most important is that we remain authentic to who we are and not be like, oh, are we in now? Are we not? You know, are we popular? Are we trendy? No, fuck that.

[Abby Wambach]

It's a drive to be to aliveness. Like, that's kind of the way that I see queerness. It's the need and the requirement of depth within, not just, like, friendships or relationships, but with the world that you're living in. And I just can't thank you guys enough for participating in my own personal growth as, like, a closeted queer athlete. And then, you know, look at where we are now, like, whether or not we get to stay out in these.

[Amanda Doyle]

Times or in little communes where we're watching women's sports. That sounds better.

[Leisha Hailey]

Honestly, you guys have just done better.

[Kate Moennig]

If our marriage licenses aren't revoked. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, exactly.

[Amanda Doyle]

You guys are so awesome. Lisha, I don't know if you remember, but I met you very briefly at Fortune Feimsters thing. And this was before I was caught up on lesbian culture. And we were walking away, and Abby was like, how did that go for you? Cause I have a little bit of social anxiety, so she's always checking in afterwards. And I said, I really like that blonde lady we were talking to. I really liked her energy. Abby goes, the blonde lady? Do you mean Alice?

[Leisha Hailey]

You're killing me.

[Amanda Doyle]

And I just remember thinking, I don't think that's what she said her name was.

[Abby Wambach]

But it wasn't.

[Leisha Hailey]

That's so funny.

[Abby Wambach]

That's how we know that now.

[Glennon Doyle]

I know.

[Amanda Doyle]

I am caught up. And I love you both, and I'm so grateful for your book and all your work.

[Leisha Hailey]

We're fans of both of you, and this has been such a pleasure to talk to you.

[Kate Moennig]

Yeah, thank you so much for having us on. And yeah, let's do this off the mic.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, let's hang out people. Get the book so Gay for your which is the best title ever.

[Leisha Hailey]

Thank you, thank you.

[Abby Wambach]

Get the book. We love you guys. Thanks for coming on. Bye bye POD Squad.

[Kate Moennig]

Bye Bye Bye.

[Amanda Doyle]

If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to Weekend Do Hard Things? Following the POD helps you because you'll never miss an episode, and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the Weekend Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on Follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things especially is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our Executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso, Allison Schott and Bill Schultz.