Podcast Summary: "How to Create Your Own Belonging with Michelle Zauner (Best Of)"

Podcast Information:

• Title: We Can Do Hard Things
• Hosts: Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, Amanda Doyle
• Guest: Michelle Zauner
• Release Date: June 15, 2025
• Description: Hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle, We Can Do Hard Things delves into the everyday struggles and triumphs of life. The show fosters honest conversations about challenging topics, aiming to create a space where listeners can feel less alone and more empowered.

Introduction to Michelle Zauner (02:04)

Glennon Doyle introduces Michelle Zauner, renowned as the lead singer and guitarist of the indie pop band Japanese Breakfast. Michelle is celebrated for her critically acclaimed albums, including Psychopomp, Soft Sounds From Another Planet, and Jubilee, the latter earning her two Grammy nominations. Beyond music, Michelle authored the bestselling memoir Crying in H Mart, which has been adapted for the screen by MGM's Orion Pictures.

Notable Quote:

"Crying in H Mart is so flipping beautiful. It's like your music invites me into the singular ache." – Glennon Doyle [03:29]

Michelle's Early Life and Family Dynamics (05:03 - 07:35)

Michelle delves into her upbringing, highlighting the complex relationship with her mother. Her mother, who immigrated from Korea, exhibited a form of love that was far from traditionally affectionate. Instead, she was critical and culturally conditioned, aiming to prepare Michelle for a successful future, albeit in a manner that was challenging during Michelle's formative years.

Notable Quote:

"Her love was tougher than tough. It saw what was best for me 10 steps ahead and didn't care if it hurt like hell in the meantime." – Glennon Doyle [07:35]

Michelle contrasts her mother's parenting style with that of her mother-in-law, who embodies the "mommy mom" archetype—warm, supportive, and emotionally expressive. This stark difference fueled a tumultuous teenage relationship between Michelle and her mother.

Navigating Cultural and Personal Identity (09:25 - 16:49)

Michelle discusses the interplay between her Korean heritage and American upbringing, expressing the struggles of feeling fragmented and constantly balancing dual identities. She emphasizes how her mother's expectations and cultural background influenced her path, pushing her towards disciplines like piano and Korean language school, which Michelle initially resisted but later came to value.

Notable Quote:

"I always compare my mom to my husband's mom, who is big time mommy mom. And whenever I got like fired from a job... she could say, like, that's just so typical of the man." – Michelle Zauner [06:06]

This section also touches on Michelle's sensitivity and how ordinary experiences profoundly impact her creative process. She shares anecdotes about finding deep meaning in everyday words and moments, which translates into her music and writing.

Sensitivity, Mental Health, and Personal Struggles (24:44 - 33:27)

Michelle opens up about her sensitivity, describing it as being deeply affected by ordinary and intense emotional moments alike. She connects this trait to her artistic endeavors, where she channels these emotions into her work. Additionally, Michelle candidly discusses her mental health journey, including a severe breakdown during her high school years and ongoing fears related to her mental well-being.

Notable Quote:

"I've always been able to source everything from, you know, either from my genes or the way that I was raised. I feel like it's all their problems." – Michelle Zauner [40:13]

Michelle explains how her past experiences, especially the loss of her mother, have shaped her approach to mental health and her reliance on maintaining a busy and purposeful life to avoid succumbing to depression.

Understanding Belonging and Identity (33:27 - 43:42)

The conversation shifts to the concept of belonging, with Michelle articulating her sense of not fully fitting into any single category due to her biracial identity. She expresses feeling most at home within the artistic community, where her uniqueness is celebrated. Michelle reflects on the challenges of creating a sense of belonging when societal expectations often force individuals into predefined roles.

Notable Quote:

"I feel whole in being an artist. I feel whole when I'm playing on a stage and have people gathered to watch me do something uniquely my own." – Michelle Zauner [34:00]

Gender, Masculinity, and Interpersonal Relationships (43:42 - 56:48)

Michelle shares her complicated feelings towards masculinity, admiring the confidence it brings yet recognizing its limitations, especially in caregiving roles. She contrasts her father's straightforward, often blunt approach to caretaking with her mother's more nuanced, albeit critical, care for her. This contrast highlights the societal conditioning of gender roles and the impact it has on personal relationships.

Notable Quote:

"I wish I had the courage to take on things that felt kind of barred from me. Like, even just having a lot of young boys given toolkits, and I never had that." – Michelle Zauner [47:47]

Michelle emphasizes the importance of balancing masculine and feminine traits to foster healthier interpersonal dynamics and personal growth.

Love, Understanding, and Parental Relationships (56:48 - 60:59)

The discussion culminates in exploring the nature of love and understanding within relationships, particularly between parents and children. Michelle contemplates whether love can exist without understanding, ultimately concluding that while they are intertwined, deep friendships and familial bonds can sustain love even amidst misunderstandings.

Notable Quote:

"There is no love or no love. They're both like, on this slider of, like, I understand a deep part of you, but I also... love you in another way." – Michelle Zauner [55:56]

She reflects on her mother's unwavering love, acknowledging that while her mother may not have always understood her, the love remained constant. Michelle also discusses the concept of withholding certain truths as an act of love, a strategy her mother employed to protect her.

Conclusion (60:59)

The episode wraps up with the hosts expressing gratitude to Michelle Zauner for her candid and heartfelt insights. They underscore the importance of understanding and creating belonging, both individually and collectively.

Notable Quote:

"It's healing and caretaking. It's just a community, and we all bring something." – Glennon Doyle [53:45]

Key Takeaways:

• Complex Parental Relationships: Michelle's relationship with her parents, especially her mother, was shaped by cultural differences and differing parenting styles, leading to both challenges and personal growth.
• Navigating Identity: Being biracial presented unique challenges in forming a cohesive sense of self, leading Michelle to find belonging within the artistic community.
• Sensitivity and Mental Health: Michelle's heightened sensitivity influences her creative work and her approach to mental health, emphasizing the importance of balance and self-care.
• Gender Roles: The conversation highlights the impact of societal conditioning on gender roles, advocating for a balanced integration of masculine and feminine traits.
• Love and Understanding: Michelle explores the nuanced relationship between love and understanding, particularly within familial bonds, suggesting that love can persist even amidst a lack of complete understanding.

Overall, this episode offers a profound exploration of belonging, identity, and the intricate dynamics of parental relationships, all through the lens of Michelle Zauner's personal experiences and artistic journey.