Podcast Summary: We Can Do Hard Things Episode: How to Find DELIGHT Today (and Every Day) with Ross Gay (Best Of)
Release Date: May 31, 2025
Hosts: Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, Amanda Doyle
Guest: Ross Gay, American poet, essayist, and professor at Indiana University

Introduction

In this heartfelt episode of We Can Do Hard Things, hosts Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle engage in a profound conversation with Ross Gay, an acclaimed poet and essayist known for his explorations of joy, connection, and community. The discussion delves into how embracing delight and joy can transform our daily lives, fostering deeper connections and resilience in the face of life's challenges.

Defining Joy and Connection

Ross Gay begins by redefining joy, emphasizing its foundational link to connection. He shares, “[...] joy is actually the evidence of connection and it's the evidence of participating in connection” (04:59). Drawing from his book, Gay explains that joy isn’t a superficial feeling but a profound practice of entanglement with others and the world around us.

Abby Wambach adds depth to this definition, stating, “What you're suggesting is that the experience of joy makes us feel connected to each other and the world...joy is connected to saving the world” (05:30). This highlights the transformative power of joy as a catalyst for societal and personal healing.

Joy as a Practice of Connection

Gay further elaborates on joy as an active practice of being connected. He references Anna Singh's Mushroom at the End of the World to illustrate how joy signifies our fundamental interconnectedness. “To be a creature is to be connected, you know, and to imagine otherwise is, in a way, to be brutal” (04:59). This perspective frames joy not just as an emotion but as a tangible link that binds us to one another and to the environment.

Joy and Resistance

The conversation shifts to the notion of joy as a form of resistance against oppressive systems. Gay challenges the idea that joy is mere escapism, arguing instead that it is a truthful assertion of existence and resilience. “Joy is actually the truth...the offenses of joy...it's dangerous” (14:10). By embracing joy, individuals resist being subdued by societal expectations and constraints.

Amanda Doyle connects this to the concept of loitering, suggesting that simple acts of not conforming—like relaxing or being non-consumptive—are inherently disruptive to systems that prioritize control over genuine care. This symbolizes how joy can disrupt oppressive structures by fostering authentic, grassroots connections.

Community and Joy: Building Together

The discussion transitions to Ross Gay's involvement in community projects, particularly the Bloomington Community Orchard. He narrates the organic, often chaotic process of community building: “We were broken into teams. And it's just like the most lovely experience in the process of doing it...” (43:00). Despite initial inefficiencies and logistical challenges, the open-heartedness and collaborative spirit prevailed, leading to a sustainable and welcoming community space.

Abby Wambach highlights the significance of maintaining openness over imposing restrictions: “You said we decided that somebody stealing a few trees wouldn't be the worst thing. The worst thing would be putting a lock on the dream of free fruit for all” (45:51). This decision reflects a commitment to collective joy and shared resources, prioritizing community over individual protection.

Joy in Adversity and Vulnerability

Gay touches on the societal pressures, especially around masculinity, that suppress genuine emotional expression. Recounting his experiences with a football coach, he reveals the internalized fear of vulnerability: “I would have had to kill everyone and everything around me” (35:20). This hyperbolic expression underscores the intense stigma around showing emotions like crying.

The hosts and guest explore how embracing vulnerability and allowing oneself to feel deeply can foster stronger connections and personal growth. Amanda Doyle remarks, “You need to fall apart to connect with other people” (39:14), emphasizing that moments of vulnerability are essential for authentic relationships.

Joy in Relationships and Change

The conversation delves into how relationships evolve and the importance of witnessing each other's changes with love and acceptance. Gay shares his fears of being unrecognized by a close friend as he changes, illustrating the delicate balance between personal growth and maintaining connections: “I feel like we're always just gonna miss each other. And those rare moments you connect, there's so much joy because of that” (54:36).

Abby Wambach adds a personal anecdote about adjusting to changes in her relationship after her own recovery journey, highlighting the mutual process of growth and acceptance.

Joy in Everyday Interactions: Pickup Basketball

Ross Gay uses the metaphor of pickup basketball to illustrate how spontaneous, rule-less interactions can foster a sense of community and joy. He describes the fluid dynamics of the game, where “there are no referees and there are no coaches...the people who are playing the game are going to decide how we're going to play the game every single time” (26:35). This flexibility promotes trust, cooperation, and continuous reinvention, mirroring the organic connections he advocates for in broader life contexts.

Conclusion and Recommendations

As the conversation winds down, the hosts and Ross Gay reflect on the pervasive presence of delight in their lives and encourage listeners to cultivate their own delight practices. They endorse Ross Gay’s works, recommending Inciting Joy and The Book of Delights as essential reads for anyone seeking to deepen their understanding of joy and connectedness.

Abby Wambach passionately concludes, “Pod Squad, go get Inciting Joy. Go get the Book of Delights. Go get all of Ross Gay's work. You won’t regret it” (60:21), urging the audience to embrace joy as a means of fostering stronger, more resilient communities.

Notable Quotes

• Ross Gay: “Joy is actually the evidence of connection and it's the evidence of participating in connection” (04:59).

• Abby Wambach: “What you're suggesting is that the experience of joy makes us feel connected to each other and the world...joy is connected to saving the world” (05:30).

• Ross Gay: “To be a creature is to be connected...to imagine otherwise is, in a way, to be brutal” (04:59).

• Ross Gay: “Joy is actually the truth...the offenses of joy...it's dangerous” (14:10).

• Abby Wambach: “You said we decided that somebody stealing a few trees wouldn't be the worst thing. The worst thing would be putting a lock on the dream of free fruit for all” (45:51).

• Amanda Doyle: “You need to fall apart to connect with other people” (39:14).

• Ross Gay: “I feel like we're always just gonna miss each other. And those rare moments you connect, there's so much joy because of that” (54:36).

• Ross Gay: “Joy is like the reason to be alive...connection is the reason to be alive” (13:04).

• Abby Wambach: “Pod Squad, go get Inciting Joy. Go get the Book of Delights. Go get all of Ross Gay's work. You won’t regret it” (60:21).

Key Takeaways

• Joy as Connection: Joy is not merely an individual emotion but a manifestation of our connections with others and the world.

• Active Practice: Cultivating joy requires intentional practices that foster deeper connections and communal support.

• Resistance and Resilience: Embracing joy serves as a form of resistance against oppressive systems, emphasizing authenticity over conformity.

• Community Building: Collaborative efforts, like community gardens, exemplify how collective joy can lead to sustainable and inclusive communities.

• Vulnerability: Allowing oneself to be vulnerable and express emotions openly strengthens personal relationships and fosters mutual understanding.

• Everyday Joy: Simple, spontaneous interactions, such as playing pickup basketball, can significantly enhance our sense of community and personal fulfillment.

Recommendations

Listeners are encouraged to:

1. Cultivate a Delight Practice: Engage in daily activities that bring joy and share these moments with others to strengthen connections.

2. Embrace Vulnerability: Allow yourself to express emotions openly to build deeper, more authentic relationships.

3. Participate in Community Projects: Join or initiate community-driven projects that promote collective joy and mutual support.

4. Read Ross Gay’s Works: Explore Inciting Joy and The Book of Delights to further understand the profound impact of joy on personal and communal levels.

By integrating these practices, individuals can navigate life's hardships with greater resilience, fostering a more connected and joyful existence.