Podcast Summary: We Can Do Hard Things
Episode: How to Know if You’re in a Cult with Tia Levings (Pt. 2)
Release Date: December 12, 2024

Introduction

In this profound and emotionally charged episode of We Can Do Hard Things, hosts Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle sit down with Tia Levings to delve deeper into her harrowing journey of escaping a high-control religious group. This second part of their conversation explores the intricate dynamics of fundamentalism, the multifaceted process of recovery, and offers tangible strategies for those seeking to break free from similar oppressive environments.

Tia Levings' Journey to Freedom

The Breaking Point
Tia recounts her final escape from the Covenant Reformed Evangelical Church after seven years of subtle manipulations and escalating control. The pivotal moment occurred during Halloween when her husband, in a violent psychotic break, threatened their lives. [03:27]

Impact of Loss and Grief
Tia reflects on the profound loss of her daughter, Clara, in 1999, which acted as a catalyst for her questioning the fundamentalist teachings she had long accepted. Clara's death shattered her worldview, compelling her to seek authenticity and personal growth beyond the restrictive confines of her church. [05:15]

Themes and Insights

Societal Barriers for Women
Tia highlights the societal obstacles that prevent women from leaving abusive relationships, such as the lack of access to no-fault divorce and financial independence. She emphasizes that these systemic issues prolong the suffering of women trapped in high-control systems. [03:27]

Isolation and Control in Fundamentalist Communities
The episode delves into how isolation and constant surveillance are tactics used by fundamentalist groups to maintain control over their members. Tia describes living in an isolated mountain house, constantly monitored, and the severe consequences of stepping out of line, including excommunication and communal shunning. [05:02]

The Role of Online Forums in Empowerment and Entrapment
Tia shares her experience of initially finding solace and empowerment in online Christian forums, which gradually became a gateway to questioning and ultimately rejecting the fundamentalist doctrines she was raised with. [07:18]

Recovery and Healing

Evolving Language of Recovery
Tia discusses the evolution of trauma recovery language since her escape in 2007, noting that terms like "religious trauma" and "deconstruction" were not prevalent at the time. She underscores the importance of embracing new therapeutic modalities such as EMDR, brain spotting, and somatic therapy to heal from deep-seated trauma. [20:08]

Integrating Trauma into One’s Story
Through intensive therapy and personal resilience, Tia has managed to fully integrate her traumatic experiences, allowing her to share her story without being retraumatized. She embodies strength and redemption, illustrating the possibility of reclaiming one's narrative after systemic abuse. [22:39]

Inner Child Work and Self-Compassion
Tia emphasizes the significance of inner child work in healing from indoctrination and religious trauma. By nurturing the wounded inner child with love and advocacy, individuals can overcome the negative self-beliefs instilled by fundamentalist teachings. [31:09]

Understanding Fundamentalism

Definition and Core Characteristics
Tia defines fundamentalism as any ideology attached to rigid, step-by-step formulas promising ideal outcomes if strictly followed. The prioritization of ideological purity over human needs and well-being is a central tenet. She succinctly states, “Ideas over people,” contrasting it with her personal philosophy of placing people above all else. [46:47]

Psychological Appeal of Fundamentalism
The conversation explores why individuals, especially those experiencing chaos and uncertainty, gravitate toward fundamentalist systems for structure and assurance. Tia explains that fundamentalism offers a sense of order and security that is deeply comforting in times of instability. [40:40]

Empathy Over Vilification
Tia advocates for holding space and empathizing with those entrenched in fundamentalist beliefs rather than vilifying them. She shares her own journey of understanding and compassion, aiming to bridge gaps and foster understanding without judgment. [49:30]

Strategies to Leave Abusive Groups

Preparation and Tactical Planning
Tia provides actionable steps for individuals considering leaving abusive or high-control relationships:

1. Untraceable Funds: Accumulate secret savings or gift cards to ensure financial independence.
2. Educate Yourself: Read stories of others who have escaped similar situations to build resilience.
3. Reach Out for Support: Connect with trusted individuals or professionals who can offer safe harbor.
4. Utilize Safe Communication Methods: Use encrypted apps like Signal to maintain privacy.

[56:21]

Building a Support Network
Having a reliable support system is crucial. Tia recounts how a progressive-minded priest aided her escape by providing a safe space and orchestrating a formal goodbye, ensuring her departure was free from accusations of kidnapping. [56:33]

Room for Flexibility and Possibility
Tia emphasizes the importance of keeping an open mind and heart, trusting that the universe will provide the necessary resources and support when needed. She highlights that leaving an abusive situation is not an immediate decision but a process that requires readiness and planning. [56:45]

Conclusion

This episode of We Can Do Hard Things provides a compelling exploration of the complexities surrounding fundamentalist religious groups and the arduous journey toward personal liberation and healing. Tia Levings' story serves as both a cautionary tale and a beacon of hope for those entangled in similar oppressive environments, offering valuable insights and practical advice for reclaiming one's life and identity.

Notable Quotes

• Tia Levings:
  “Maybe there wasn't a savior coming. Maybe it was up to me to save me.” [03:27]

• Tia Levings:
  “Trauma took my past. It's not going to get my present and future too. My present and my future fall under the line of things I can control, I can change my future.” [20:05]

• Tia Levings:
  “Fundamentalism is ideas over people. And I put people over ideas.” [46:47]

• Amanda Doyle:
  “Not everyone in a fundamentalist group needs to align perfectly, but their collective impact can’t be ignored.” [52:29]

• Abby Wambach:
  “Silent solidarity is not an option. We have to stand and speak out.” [54:03]

Final Thoughts

We Can Do Hard Things continues to provide a safe space for honest conversations about life's challenges. This episode with Tia Levings is a testament to the strength of the human spirit and the power of community in overcoming adversity. Listeners are encouraged to seek support, embrace their authentic selves, and remember that they are not alone in their struggles.

Follow Tia Levings and Continue the Conversation:

• Tia Levings' Social Media: [Insert Links]
• Tia's Book: [Insert Purchase Links]

Join us next time as we explore more stories of resilience and empowerment.