How to Parent While You Heal: Live on Tour

Summary

Summary of "How to Parent While You Heal: Live on Tour" Episode from "We Can Do Hard Things" Podcast

Release Date: July 31, 2025

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Introduction and Reflection on the Live Tour (02:11 - 04:32)

Amanda Doyle welcomes listeners back to the podcast, expressing immense gratitude for the overwhelming love and support received during their live episodes. She reflects on the significance of their "We Can Do Hard Things" tour, which aimed to create a sacred and joyful space amidst times of isolation, fear, and anxiety. Amanda highlights the transformative power of community, hope, and togetherness, emphasizing how these elements have been pivotal in navigating challenging times.

Amanda Doyle [02:20]: "And those are the things that are gonna get us through this. Every one of these nights reminded us of that connection and the power of being together and of feeling alive..."

Navigating Internalized Sexism and Personal Experiences (07:14 - 31:05)

Listeners engage with the hosts through heartfelt questions and personal stories, delving deep into topics like internalized sexism, fear, love, and the complexities of parenting while healing.

Listener Maggie's Query on Love and Fear:

Maggie shares her struggle with reconciling deep love for her transgender spouse with overwhelming fear due to societal challenges. She seeks advice on balancing these intense emotions.

Maggie [07:14]: "How do I reconcile deep love that has turned into such deep fear?"

Response from Tish Melton:

Tish eloquently addresses the intertwined nature of love and fear, emphasizing that true bravery lies in maintaining love despite fear. She underscores the importance of community and collective resistance against efforts to erase marginalized identities.

Tish Melton [08:14]: "Love is the opposite of fear. It always has been. And you know how much you love them, and you're gonna keep showing up because of that love."

Abby's Insight on Balancing Parenting and Self-Parenting:

Maggie further explores the challenge of parenting children while simultaneously healing oneself, questioning how to embrace self-care without neglecting parental responsibilities.

Maggie [17:41]: "How do you not only parent your kids the way that you wish you had been parented, but also at the exact same time, parent yourself the way that you wish you had been parented?"

Abby's Reflection on Self-Care in Motherhood:

Abby shares her personal struggle with balancing maternal instincts and self-healing, illustrating the constant interplay between caring for her children and tending to her own emotional needs.

Abby Wambach [20:07]: "I have a good instinct for what they need. Then I remember, oh, now I give that to myself. Yes, that gentleness, that forgiveness, that caring, that is what I need right now."

Redefining Bravery and Healing from Within (31:05 - 36:19)

The conversation shifts towards redefining what it means to be brave, especially in the context of personal healing and overcoming past traumas.

Abby's Definition of Bravery:

Abby recounts her journey through relapse and how she learned to recognize and manage the influence of her younger self that surfaces during moments of fear. She redefines bravery as the ability to take control of her actions and set boundaries, ensuring that her adult self remains at the wheel.

Abby Wambach [32:26]: "So I just pulled over, took a minute, said, thanks, sweetheart. Like, I know that you think that this is how we stay safe, but I have some bigger, more beautiful ideas for us."

Building and Sustaining Community Support (36:19 - 50:35)

Listeners continue to share their experiences, seeking guidance on building supportive communities and friendships that sustain them through life's challenges.

Listener's Struggle with Lack of Village Support:

A listener, a dean at a law school and primary caregiver to a terminally ill parent and neurodivergent children, expresses difficulty in finding a supportive community in the absence of traditional support systems like PTAs or church groups. She poses a poignant question about managing hard times without a readily available village.

Listener [47:53]: "How do the rest of us do in the meantime when we don't have a village around us to help support us while we're doing the hard things?"

Tish's Thoughtful Response on Friendship and Community:

Tish addresses the listener's concerns by sharing her own revelations about the true essence of friendship—not just as a support during crises but as a source of energy and lightness in daily life. She encourages embracing the "magic" of genuine friendships that offer mutual support and joy.

Tish Melton [50:43]: "Having friends is what makes life bearable. It's not that, like, they show up when it is. It's some kind of magic magnifier... You have energy... it’s magic."

Closing Remarks and Inspirational Messages (50:35 - End)

As the episode draws to a close, the hosts express heartfelt gratitude towards their listeners—referred to affectionately as the "Pod Squad." They reiterate their commitment to supporting each other through life's challenges and end the episode with an empowering affirmation.

Abby Wambach [53:35]: "Thank you, Pod Squad. Thank you for showing up and for helping us stay human with your brave and beautiful questions."

The episode concludes with a moving musical performance by Brandi Carlile, encapsulating the theme of overcoming adversity and embracing one's journey.

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Key Takeaways

• Resilience Through Community: Building and maintaining a supportive community is crucial for navigating life's hard times.

• Balancing Love and Fear: Understanding that love and fear are interconnected emotions can help in managing personal relationships and internal struggles.

• Redefining Bravery: Bravery is not just about grand gestures but also about taking control of one's actions and setting healthy boundaries.

• Authentic Friendships: Genuine friendships provide not only support during crises but also enrich day-to-day life with joy and energy.

• Parenting While Healing: Effective parenting involves simultaneously addressing one's own need for healing and providing for the emotional well-being of children.

Notable Quotes

1. Maggie on Love and Fear:

   "How do I reconcile deep love that has turned into such deep fear?"
   [07:14]

2. Tish on Love as the Opposite of Fear:

   "Love is the opposite of fear. It always has been. And you know how much you love them, and you're gonna keep showing up because of that love."
   [08:14]

3. Maggie on Parenting and Self-Care:

   "How do you not only parent your kids the way that you wish you had been parented, but also at the exact same time, parent yourself the way that you wish you had been parented?"
   [17:41]

4. Abby on Bravery:

   "So I just pulled over, took a minute, said, thanks, sweetheart. Like, I know that you think that this is how we stay safe, but I have some bigger, more beautiful ideas for us."
   [32:26]

5. Tish on the Magic of Friendships:

   "Having friends is what makes life bearable. It's not that, like, they show up when it is. It's some kind of magic magnifier... You have energy... it’s magic."
   [50:43]

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This episode of "We Can Do Hard Things" poignantly addresses the intricate balance between personal healing and the responsibilities of parenting. Through heartfelt conversations and shared experiences, Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle offer insightful perspectives on overcoming internalized societal pressures, fostering authentic connections, and redefining what it means to bravely navigate life's challenges.

Transcript

[Glennon Doyle]

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[Abby Wambach]

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[Amanda Doyle]

Welcome back pod squad.

[Tish Melton]

Today, after receiving so, so much love for our live episode that we shared.

[Amanda Doyle]

With you a couple weeks ago, we are taking you back into this sacred, joyful space of our We Can Do Hard Things tour. It is something that you all and we created together during this time in which so many of us are at home and feeling isolated with fear and anxiety and feeling a little bit desperate and a little bit hopeless. And the beauty of, of being together is that we found hope and joy and togetherness and community. And those are the things that are gonna get us through this. Every one of these nights reminded us of that connection and the power of being together and of feeling alive and a bunch of people feeling alive together is how we're going to change things. So it's Also what makes life worth living. So thank you for showing up with us in those rooms. Thank you for showing up for yourselves and for spending this time with us. We were in all sorts of places. Thousands of you. We saw in New York, in Boston and Philly and Washington, D.C. and Minneapolis and Denver and Portland, San Fran and Seattle. And then we ended the tour with an unforgettable night in Nashville, Tennessee, during Pride Weekend at the Ryman Auditorium. And I will never forget the end of that show with the lights of people's cell phones while Tish was singing. It was just as close to magic as I felt in today's episode. You're really gonna wanna listen to this. It is good. We are bringing you the live moments from a collection of those shows. We're talking about internalized sexism. What to do when you don't have a village. How to stay rooted in love when all you're feeling is fear. Why friendship might be the most important survival tool we have right now. And I talk a little bit about letting go of perfection, which I'm not yet perfect at. Let us jump in.

[Tish Melton]

High Squad. Oh, my God.

[Maggie]

It's the Pod Squad.

[Tish Melton]

I love it. The question is, what's going on with.

[Abby Wambach]

The Sarah Paulson playing Glennon and all that stuff? Wow. You are the first person to ask me that on this tour. I have to figure out how much of the truth I want to tell right now. Okay, I'll just tell the whole truth. When has that ever gotten me in trouble? So I believe that that project will happen at some point. I stopped it completely. I could not find any peace or comfort with my family in any way being on a screen. Like, when I write my stories about them, I get to completely. I want to use a better word than control, but I think that's the right word. Shepherd. This story, you know, it's for me. And so every word that I write about them and Craig or anybody else is truthful, but done with, like, great, great love. And we kept getting to parts where I just felt like, I don't think I have the right to do this. I can't explain it other than I could never get to a place where I felt like it needed to be done or that I had the right to make my kids, like symbols of anything or I just couldn't get comfortable with it. And so I canceled the whole thing. And I know it's kind of a bummer because. And Sarah Paulson is one of the most beautiful, wonderful people in the entire world, and one of my dearest friends now. And we. We both believe that we will figure out how it can be done eventually. And when it comes around and it's the right idea, it'll be perfect. It'll happen. But it just. I could not. I feel like more and more, I'm just not doing anything that doesn't feel right. And I feel like we also have, like, the most amazing level of, like, A list, B list. We're, like, w. We're, like, so low on the famous, and it's perfect, and I don't want it to get higher. Like, I think it's not. We're just in a good zone right now, you know?

[Maggie]

Yes.

[Abby Wambach]

So there wasn't enough in the plus column to keep it going, but there was so much risk that I just felt like it's not needed. Maybe one day. I'm sorry.

[Maggie]

Maybe one day. Okay, let's go up top now. Oh, my God. I feel like I could throw up.

[Tish Melton]

Sorry.

[Abby Wambach]

Okay.

[Maggie]

Actually, I do have a question.

[Olivia]

So when you were talking about how.

[Maggie]

Do we make peace with our bodies, it was making me think about my spouse. My spouse is trans, and my spouse.

[Olivia]

Has so much respect for their trans ancestors, and they care so much about.

[Maggie]

Fighting and staying here in the US and fighting.

[Olivia]

And I have so much, so much.

[Maggie]

Love that has turned into deep, deep.

[Olivia]

Fear, and I want to run.

[Maggie]

I want to take my spouse and run away so fast. So how do I reconcile deep love that has turned into such deep fear? Yeah.

[Tish Melton]

Well, what is your name?

[Maggie]

Yeah. Maggie.

[Abby Wambach]

Maggie, you're wonderful. Sissy. Do you have a response to Maggie about love and fear right now?

[Maggie]

It's a good question.

[Tish Melton]

It's a beautiful question. First of all, it's beautiful that your spouse is exactly who they are. It's beautiful that you love them exactly who they are. It's beautiful that you can connect your love and your fear, because I think that is probably 90% of the ball game. I think so much of love shows up as fear. And the fact you can connect that is a really beautiful thing. I think the fact that your spouse wants to stay is wonderful, because what is happening right now is this intentional strategy of erasure. I mean, that is what is happening with so many trailblazing, so many existences, so many beautiful ways to show up in the world are being literally erased. That's why they're trying to get rid of critical race theory. That's why they're trying to get rid of the celebratory days that mark these heroic people. That's why they're Trying to erase trans people from history. Trans people have been around for thousands and thousands of years, and they. By putting them up as if they are new, that is an effort to isolate. That is an effort to say you are new and strange and there is no precedent for you. And that could not be more just intellectually, factually wrong. So this is why that's happening. And I think that the refusal to be erased from any marginalized group, if we are not marginalized, the refusal to aid and abet and allow erasure is one of the most important things we can be doing right now. Because it's just. It's so necessary. It isn't about. It's about recognizing our history. It's about recognizing reality. And that's why they're trying to replace reality with a counter reality. So that the people who come up behind have to relearn that they are not alone. They have to relearn. They have to discover that they're part of a beautiful, long standing lineage on their own, which is bullshit. It shouldn't be the case. So, I mean, I think kudos to y' all for showing up and for refusing to be erased. And also, of course, love is the opposite of fear. It always has been. And you know how much you love them, and you're gonna keep showing up because of that love. They're the opposite sides of the same coin. And your fear is when it's gonna keep you loving, and your love is what's gonna keep you afraid of the eraser. So just, you're doing everything right.

[Abby Wambach]

And we're going to fight for you and with you, we're going to fight like hell.

[Maggie]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

You are not alone.

[Maggie]

Yep. Okay. So I think that it's really interesting, first of all, Tish, kind of when she went on earlier and she was talking about love and fear and how close they are on the spectrum. Like, I've been thinking a lot about that, and I think that. And for you and your spouse, the fact that you're even in the conversation of these two things to me, like in my body, like when you said that, I was like, oh, you're going to be okay. And I know it, because there's thousands of us in this room right now. It's a big reason why we wanted to do this book tour right now, because we needed to be around other people that could help us get through these bizarre times, these horrific times, that real people are suffering and real people are scared. And I think that if the love can live in coexistence with the Fear. And we accept both of those for, like, really what they are. And when fear shows up, Glennon has always said, like, when it knocks on your door, let it come in and tell it, and let it teach you what you need to know. And I think that we will get through this with love. But also, the fear is important. I don't think that we should just try to ignore it. I think that we have to listen to it. What is this fear trying to teach us? That's it.

[Tish Melton]

Also, I want to say something else, because the fear thing is huge. The fear, it's like, we are afraid. But you want to know who's more afraid? They are afraid. That's the whole reason for this entire bullshit. I think it was Paul Mason who said that fascism is fear of freedom triggered by a taste of freedom by those who. Fascists don't want to be free. Okay? So it is the very fact that. That freedom is coming and inevitable and we are pushing it forward no matter what, that they are so afraid that they need to do this. So it's not. Let's just remember we are afraid, but they are way more afraid, and they should be, because we are gonna keep going.

[Maggie]

Okay. I mean, I just have to do it. Woman in the white shirt.

[Tish Melton]

That's the standing up, going like this.

[Maggie]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

Hi.

[Olivia]

Hi, guys. My name's Abby, also.

[Abby Wambach]

Great.

[Tish Melton]

That's her name, too.

[Olivia]

So I promise there's a question at the end of this, but just a little bit of background. I grew up as an Orthodox Jew, and for anybody who grew up in any, like, devout religion, it's kind of the same.

[Tish Melton]

Same story.

[Olivia]

I was expected to grow up, marry the Jewish man, make the Jewish babies, and live happily enough ever after. And that's what I did. I went to college, I found the Jewish boy, we got married, we had the babies. And then within the first six months of the pandemic, I had the gay awakening.

[Tish Melton]

Yes. I was so hoping we were gonna get there. I didn't know I was gonna go here.

[Maggie]

I'm so excited now.

[Tish Melton]

I knew it the whole time.

[Maggie]

Thank God.

[Tish Melton]

I was like, that's where this is going.

[Maggie]

We needed to queer this shit up.

[Tish Melton]

A little bit more. Yeah.

[Olivia]

And I had two little babies at the time and was pregnant with the third. And I thought, well.

[Tish Melton]

I just want.

[Abby Wambach]

Yay.

[Olivia]

And at the time, I had started opening up to a few close friends that I worked with, and one of them said, you know, I just read this book that I think you might find relatable. I said, okay, well, I don't know anything right now. And I'm very scared, so. Absolutely. And she bought me a copy of Untamed. And the takeaway that I got from the book was that we all will die for the people that we love. We'll die for our kids. We'll die. And I knew then that instead of dying for them, I had to get up and live for them.

[Maggie]

Yeah.

[Olivia]

I was very scared. Glennon had seen Abby, and then at least she had that. I didn't have an Abby.

[Maggie]

I'm sorry.

[Olivia]

I know.

[Abby Wambach]

Me too. You were your own Abby.

[Olivia]

I mean, I guess I was more of a Glennon, though.

[Abby Wambach]

Yes.

[Olivia]

Sorry, I thought.

[Maggie]

Me too.

[Olivia]

This is what we're doing. We're gonna blow up our marriage. It's gonna be terrible. But I hope at the end of it, I will not only be able to live for my kids, but maybe I will find the Glennon or the Abbey to my Glennon. And I did.

[Tish Melton]

Woo. Don't tell me her name's Glennon, because that would be so weird.

[Maggie]

Yeah, it would. Very weird.

[Olivia]

It would be weird. Her name is Lauren. This is my wife.

[Abby Wambach]

Hi, Lauren.

[Olivia]

And you know, together we have blended our families. Together we have five beautiful children.

[Maggie]

Wow.

[Olivia]

All under the ages of eight.

[Maggie]

Wow.

[Olivia]

So I guess my question through.

[Tish Melton]

But.

[Olivia]

How do you not only parent your kids the way that you wish you had been parented, but also at the exact same time, parent yourself the way that you wish you had been parented? Because the only thing I know right now is that I don't know anything.

[Maggie]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

You know more than most people then.

[Maggie]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah.

[Maggie]

Than not knowing. Yeah. Thank you.

[Abby Wambach]

That's beautiful. Thank you, Abby. That's so brave, too, because you did the thing before the Lauren showed up. People ask me all the time, would you have been brave enough to leave had you not had Abby there? And I hope so. Like, I think I. But I don't know that answer. So. Awesome. You're awesome. Like, you did it and, like, you made the leap. And then just in faith and belief and truth to yourself before you had another person there to go to. That's amazing. Very cool.

[Olivia]

Yeah. I mean, I went through my hoe phase. Lots of dating.

[Maggie]

Well, listen here.

[Tish Melton]

You didn't have a hoe phase.

[Maggie]

Yeah.

[Tish Melton]

Yes, you did. It was just. Well, before that.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh, that's true.

[Maggie]

Now, listen, one of the things that you mentioned that I think is important about parenting, that is, like, makes me know that you're very wise, is that no parent knows what the fuck they're doing. Like, you're Just making it up as you go along. And the more, the more I parent, the more I realize that my ability to self regulate prior to going into any parenting interaction will either make or break that parenting interaction. And that is the only thing that I think about now. Like it doesn't even matter what I'm saying with my words. It is literally the energy in which I'm walking into a situation and if I'm bringing my five year old self, which I do quite often, or my 10 year old self, or my 18 year old self, I am a different parent. And so I have to check myself in those ways. So good on you. God bless you for taking care of five children under the age of eight. I do not know how you're here, why you're here.

[Abby Wambach]

That's why she's here.

[Tish Melton]

That's why she's here. She'd be anywhere else.

[Maggie]

I'd be sleeping in a hotel by myself somewhere.

[Abby Wambach]

I think that we do both of those at the same time.

[Tish Melton]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

Like I can tell you, for me it's always happening at the exact same time. Like when I, when a kid comes to me and I can one of my kids and I know what they need in that moment and I'm regulated enough to give them that. Whether it's like a listening ear or a gentleness or forgiveness or whatever it is, I always have this wave of gratitude that I was able to do this. But then there's this second wave that's like great sadness for my little girl self who didn't get that in that moment. That's how that happens for me every time. It is not like I heal myself as I'm mothering myself and then I mother them. It's like I mother them and then I think, oh, and then I just have to have like some moments with myself. And for me it's backwards. I have a good instinct for what they need. Then I remember, oh, now I give that to myself. Yes, that gentleness, that forgiveness, that caring, that is what I need right now. And then I find a way to mother myself in that way. But I always have to get it first through what I can instinctually do with the kids. Does that make sense?

[Maggie]

I sometimes do this weird thing where when you're. Because you are so good, I'm a little bit less regulated with the kids than you are. Like when the kids bring us some sort of drama because there's drama every day, you are like, oh, wow, tell me more about that. And I'm somewhere, I go somewhere else. And so I Then pretend that Glennon is, like, sweetly, lovingly talking to me and that little part of myself. And then I can get back into my situation. So you can maybe even help each other. Not that you're my mother, but I'm. I don't want that.

[Abby Wambach]

Congratulations, you guys.

[Maggie]

Yeah, good job.

[Brandi Carlile]

Foreign.

[Amanda Doyle]

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[Maggie]

Up top. Okay, I saw your hand. Second. First. Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

You know, she loves this part. She's just like, get.

[Tish Melton]

Hi.

[Olivia]

My mom actually read your book Untamed.

[Tish Melton]

To me when I was 12. We skipped the blowjob chapter. Glennon's also been skipping the blowjobs.

[Olivia]

Anyways, it had a really big impact.

[Tish Melton]

On my life then, and I listen.

[Olivia]

To your podcast now, and I just wanted to ask.

[Tish Melton]

I feel like I'm having such a hard time because I feel like I have to be sexist to, like, survive in the world and in my relationships. And I just feel like it's having a really negative effect on me as a woman. And I'm just wondering, like, if you.

[Olivia]

Have any advice about how to not internalize all that.

[Abby Wambach]

Okay, first of all, what's your name?

[Tish Melton]

I'm Olivia.

[Abby Wambach]

Olivia, you're so great. That was funny and touching and all the things. You should have a podcast, really. Olivia, can you just repeat for me what you're having a hard time not being? Did you say sexist?

[Tish Melton]

Like internalized sexism? Like internalized sexism. I support myself. Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh, shit. You go.

[Tish Melton]

Well, so does everyone who has been socialized and brought up as a female person. Yes, all of us. That isn't that there is something wrong with you. That is because from birth you've been receiving the messages over and over that you're not supposed to trust yourself, that you are supposed to be a certain way to be received, be a certain way to be loved, be a certain way to be palatable. It doesn't go from an Entire growing up in a culture in which you're stewed in that to an intellectual understanding and desire and switch overnight isn't. That's a. You should stop shaming yourself for having that, because we all do. And it's something that, I mean the most shame I have felt in myself recently. I didn't even tell you guys this because I was so, so humiliated by it, but I was traveling with my family and we stopped at this restaurant and this older gentleman came up and was talking with us. I was there with my daughter, my daughter's 10. And he was chatting and there was this moment where he was like, can I have a hug? And I did it.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh yeah, I get that moment. I really do.

[Tish Melton]

I did it and my daughter was there. It was uncomfortable for her, it was uncomfortable for me. This was a man in a restaurant in a state I didn't live in, a person I didn't know would never see again. And there would be zero consequences if I told him no or fuck off or anything. And instead, what my reaction is as a women's studies major, a feminist, an attorney, and a generally person who's not afraid to tell anyone when to fuck off. I said sure, weird old man who's making my 10 year old daughter and me uncomfortable. I'm going to give you a hug. Like it was so upsetting to me for hours because I realized that my internalized need, my internalization of my job to no matter what the hell else is going on, no matter what the cost to placate and make comfortable any man in my presence is so deeply embedded in me that I was willing to even model it for my daughter when I know better. It is a poison and it is in us. And we need to not be ashamed that it's in us. We need to be ashamed that this world keeps pouring it in us. And so don't beat yourself up. It's just you will get.

[Maggie]

That's so good.

[Tish Melton]

It's not you. And the more the fact that you've noticed it, the fact that you see it there, is the first step. Because when it's in you, you can't see it. When you take it out of you, you can look at it and that's what you're doing and you're on your way. And don't question yourself and make your comfort and your peace on your spreadsheet.

[Abby Wambach]

Yes.

[Maggie]

Let's go up top.

[Abby Wambach]

That was so good.

[Maggie]

Yeah, that was really good.

[Abby Wambach]

And Olivia, read the blowjobs chapter also. It will help. Okay.

[Maggie]

Okay, let's Go up top.

[Olivia]

Hi.

[Tish Melton]

First of all, I just want to say, say thank you. It is the biggest privilege to be alive at a time where you guys are on a podcast and we get.

[Abby Wambach]

To listen to you.

[Tish Melton]

We need more of you guys in the world. The question I have. I've been working a lot on vulnerability and changing my definition of bravery. I think, as you guys probably all understand, the definition needs be to. To change and change and change as our work changes. Before, it's like, come at your stuff and work on yourself. And then it's like, how do I embody? So I'm just interested in how has your definition of bravery changed and anything you've kind of learned from that evolving definition that we might be able to take. Thank you so, so, so much for existing.

[Maggie]

Wow. Great question.

[Abby Wambach]

I've been thinking a lot about, like, who's driving the car for me? So the last relapse I had happened right at November. Right in November. And what happens to me in relapse is that I get really scared. That's how it starts. I get scared somehow, whether it's something that's a macro in the world or micro in my life, I somehow get scared.

[Tish Melton]

Scared.

[Abby Wambach]

And if I'm not really careful and if I don't stay really conscious, what happens is. And what happens to a lot of us is when we feel threatened, what takes over is a very young version of ourselves. Okay? So all of us were children in homes, and in many of these homes, we did not feel safe. And we learned ways to respond to the feeling of not being safe, to make ourselves safe. Right? So in my particular home, there was unpredictability and a lot of control. And it was not safe in my house to be free or to have big feelings or to grow or to have an appetite or to take up space in any way. It was a lot of eggshells, right? So I learned when things get scary, shut it down. Become hypervigilant. Do not eat, do not rest, do not sleep, do not. It's like when you're. If you're an animal in a plane, and the way that when you start to feel threatened, right, you just absolutely stay hypervigilant. And so what happened is that little self came back up, and I went completely unconscious. It took me four months. I was on a plane on the way home from New York, and I couldn't even sit in my seat. Like, my ass hurt so bad. And it was because my tailbone. I didn't even know what was going on until my tailbone Was sticking out of my body again, like I was so thin. And so here's what I did. This is what brave is to me now. All that happened and all that happens to any of us when we go unconscious like that is that we just forgot that we are adults now and that we don't have to use those old broken tools that our little girl self had because we have new tools, right? We can set boundaries. We can say no. We can refuse to be in spaces with people who do not make us feel safe. We have a whole new toolbox. So when I remembered that, I realized that my little girl self was driving the car. She just was like, oh, we're scared. I know what to do. I know how we stay safe. She told me all the things that we used to do in my family of origin to stay safe, right? And I ended up starving, paranoid, not sleeping. The results of all those things. So what brave now is to me is, first of all, not beating myself up for that. Waking up, saying, oh, I know what's going on. My little girl's at the wheel. The thing about responsible adults is that they just don't let children drive. Truth, right? Like, even if a kid really wants to, even if a kid thinks they have really good ideas, like a responsible adult's like, you know what? I think you belong in the backseat where you can rest and put on your little seatbelt, because that's all that little girl wants anyway, right? So I just pulled over, took a minute, said, thanks, sweetheart. Like, I know that you think that this is how we stay safe, but I have some bigger, more beautiful ideas for us. Now. The good news is there is maybe there wasn't the adult that you needed in the room when you were little and so you had to do all those things. But there is an adult in the room now, and it's me. I've got us, right? So I just put her in the back seat and I got in the front seat and I remembered all of my strategies. And now I'm driving again. And that's my definition of brave today.

[Tish Melton]

Foreign.

[Amanda Doyle]

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[Glennon Doyle]

If you're someone who's curious about why we are the way we are, why we succeed, why we screw up, then you'll want to check out Armchair Expert. Hosted by Dax Shepard and Monica Padman, the show explores big, honest conversations with artists, thinkers, scientists and cultural icons like Alex Cooper, Brad Pitt and Monica Lewinsky, just to name a few. Together they explore everything from identity and addiction to imposter syndrome and finding your purpose. Then on Fridays, they flip the mic to the listeners with Armchair Anonymous, a listener driven series where real people call in with raw, funny and totally human confessions. From disastrous dates and family secrets to accidentally joining a cult, they've heard it all. If you love self reflection, big ideas and embracing the comedic chaos of life, follow Armchair Expert on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts and subscribe to armchair expert on YouTube.

[Maggie]

You have two hands that are doing this. Yeah. Stand up. Yes. And if you wouldn't mind trying to walk your way to the aisle, just sorry everybody, you're gonna have to stand. And then up top, who wants it next? Yeah, two hands. Who wants like second to last row and then you went like that. It's you.

[Tish Melton]

That's the key to her heart.

[Abby Wambach]

Because of the shimmy. Yeah.

[Maggie]

Okay, go ahead down here.

[Tish Melton]

Hi, I'm Gonna pass out. Oh, my goodness. So longtime listener, first time caller, been love. I love listening to you guys out on tour and it's really exciting. What I wanna know is, is Amanda, what is it like for you to be out there doing your own deal? And Glennon, what's it like to watch her? I would love to hear about that.

[Maggie]

Yes. Cause this is the first time Amanda has been on stage and she's crushing it.

[Abby Wambach]

She's crushing it.

[Maggie]

Crushing it. What is it like?

[Tish Melton]

Sissy? I mean, to be honest, a couple of things about it. I'm usually like a hyper preparer person, but I started this new philosophy of holding things more loosely. Just. But it was right before this, which I felt like I was like a person training for the Olympics my whole life and doing it the exact same way. And then right before the Olympics I was like, I don't know, I might just feel around and try something else. And that's what this feels like. But it feels like maybe a universe spirit thing, because it's kind of like, well, that doesn't make any sense. Just to go up and have faith in yourself in this context when you wouldn't even like, have faith in yourself when you're like at midnight writing a report that no one's going to read, you know? So I feel like it's kind of been an act of faith to try this. But what I think is even more so than that maybe feels really beautiful to me because it feels like an indicia, like a proof that I really do believe that I want and deserve to change the way I live. And that feels good to me because I feel like it feels she can make it there. She'll make it anywhere. Yeah, that's what I feel like. And it's been on a more like global way, as opposed to my microway. It's been just such a damn joy and comfort for me to be in the presence of a community of people that cares so deeply and is so, so smart and is so engaged. And it's really invigorating me and it's making me feel hopeful and it's making me feel really excited about what's next. Because we exist, we are here. It's kind of like the Chavez. I have. I have seen the future and it is ours. That is how I feel when I'm out here. I'm like, I see us and I know that we are stronger than what's coming against us. And it. And it makes me feel really excited.

[Abby Wambach]

I mean, how it feels to me like I can You. It's mind blowing. It's like, I'm back. I'm back there. I'm, like, holding my stuff. Sister, who I've been doing life with since I was three. How did I survive those first three years? Holding her hand, holding Abby's hand. Watching Tish sing, watching you all receive. Tish and my sister and us, like you always have. It's a freaking miracle to me. I will never get over it. I will never get over that you have, for some reason, agreed to do life with us. It blows my mind. I think about it all the time. I will. I am terrified of any sort of, like, promise or commitment, but I know that I will keep showing up for you until I die. And I will take breaks because I will lose my mind every five years. That's what I do.

[Tish Melton]

But then she write a book about it, and that'll please you, right?

[Abby Wambach]

So it's either a good day or it's a good story, right? Either way, it's good. And I just. Well, one thing that I think is weird is how good she is at it right away. Like, I just thought.

[Tish Melton]

I don't know.

[Abby Wambach]

It took me. When I first started speaking on stages, I was so terrified that I would make my sister sit in a chair behind me on stage. I don't know if any of you.

[Tish Melton]

No, I said, wait, this is worth pausing with.

[Abby Wambach]

This is a true story. I would just be speaking at, like.

[Tish Melton]

A convention, and I can't understand how awkward this was. I only thought of that the other day because someone said. Because you said on the podcast, this is your first time on a stage. And I saw someone who was at that event, and they said, actually, this isn't your first time on the stage. Because the first time I saw Glennon speak, you were on the stage, but literally. Okay, so this is. She's speaking right here. But she tells the people, my sister needs to be there. And they're like, cool, your sister can be there. And she's like, no, no, no. My sister needs to be there. So there was a chair that I was sitting in, and Glennon is giving a keynote for, like, 35 minutes.

[Maggie]

It's a true story.

[Tish Melton]

While I'm sitting in the chair with no explanation to anyone. And then she's finished. And then I get up, follow her off. She had us do that four times.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah. Remember the lady who was like, I've seen you. You were doing some weird panel where you didn't let the other person talk.

[Maggie]

That's embarrassing.

[Tish Melton]

I came. Embarrassing. Let us do that. They're probably. Why didn't they say no? You can't have someone sitting on the stage.

[Abby Wambach]

I feel like there's a lesson in.

[Tish Melton]

It, which is tell us we can make our own accommodations. That's true. That's true. Right?

[Abby Wambach]

Like, fine, I'll do your thing, but.

[Tish Melton]

I'm gonna do it my way.

[Abby Wambach]

My sister's coming. Like, right? We can do. Yes. So the point is that my sister's been through a lot. That's what the point is. And also, y', all, like, when I'm the only one talking.

[Unknown]

A lot of.

[Abby Wambach]

The shit's from my sister anyway. Like, you know that, right?

[Tish Melton]

Like, most of them, I'm like, I.

[Abby Wambach]

Gotta be all fiery now.

[Tish Melton]

I gotta sail this stuff like this. And I'm like, I don't even know that. Like, that's her.

[Abby Wambach]

So now she can say her fiery shit and I can just be me and you can. It's like we're all individuating.

[Maggie]

I think that's a good idea.

[Tish Melton]

This is like a codependency decoupling. Just uncoupling.

[Abby Wambach]

It's beautiful. I'm so happy and proud of her. I think that she is like a healer in the world. I think she's a leader that we need right now, and I'm so excited to support her.

[Maggie]

Okay, we're gonna go up top.

[Unknown]

First, I just wanna say thank you. This must be really emotionally draining for you to do this tour. So I just wanna say thank you for the work that you're doing, and we see it and we feel you, and we appreciate what you're doing for us.

[Maggie]

Thank you.

[Unknown]

I am a lawyer. I'm the dean. I'm a dean at a law school, actually. Santa Clara.

[Maggie]

Go Broncos.

[Unknown]

I'm trying to be a captain in the save hire ed and the rule of law vote. And I have two kids who are neurodivergent. They're seven and 10 years old. And I'm the primary caregiver of my dad, who has terminal leukemia. And I am learning that I have collected really, really beautiful, deep friendships in my life. But we are spread across the globe. And because I'm not a PTA mom and I'm not a church mom, I don't have a village that shows up with casserole when I need it. And so I know that this is maybe something that Glennon struggles with a little bit. And you've talked to Michelle Obama about it.

[Abby Wambach]

But until we fix as you.

[Tish Melton]

I feel like Michelle Obama would like her.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, she would.

[Unknown]

Until we fix Things. What do the rest of us do in the meantime when we don't have a village around us to help support us while we're doing the hard things? Thank you so much.

[Tish Melton]

That's a good question. And it's also not. It's like, the people like her who are trying to, like, save the legal system, which is the last bulwark we have against what's going on, who are taking care of kids who need it.

[Abby Wambach]

Taking care of parents who need it.

[Tish Melton]

Those are the people we all need support. But those people need support, but they're, by definition, not plugged into the daily community because they're doing all that other stuff. So how the hell do we fix that?

[Abby Wambach]

I'm just hoping Abby knows, because I know. I don't know. You have friends. I feel like you're.

[Maggie]

Yeah. I mean, I think that I'm feeling. In this moment of my life, in my mid-40s, my parents are aging. My kids are still in a place where they need us. And so it's this weird time of life that you feel pulled in every direction. And then you have this other thing that you're trying to protect. The sanctity of our legal system. And we're so grateful. I don't have answers.

[Tish Melton]

I have a thought.

[Abby Wambach]

Do you have a thought?

[Maggie]

Go.

[Tish Melton]

I have a thought. Oh, no. I thought you were saying, I don't have an answer. I'm done.

[Maggie]

No, no. Go, go, go, go, go, go. I was. I did. I said, I don't have an answer.

[Abby Wambach]

Was that like a period or comma after that?

[Tish Melton]

Was it like, I don't have an answer, but I'm going with this.

[Maggie]

Please go.

[Abby Wambach]

Okay.

[Tish Melton]

What I'm wondering, because I was like, that's a real situation you're talking about, and I don't have an answer. But then I thought to myself, wait a second. You're saying you're doing all of these hard things and you need a friend and community so they'll show up for you in the hard things. And it made me think of myself because, okay, so I have this. I had these good friends from college, but I don't keep in touch with anyone because it's. I. I'm really bad at it. The only people that are still in my life are the people who wouldn't let me leave. Literally, those are the friends I have. The ones who just kept. Were like, we're not letting you escape us. And we were going through this situation, and she was really upset with me. She's one of my dearest friends in the world. And she was like, you're not in my life. And if you want to have people in your life, you need to be in their life. And I realized that the way I thought about friendships was like, okay, I'm a really good foxhole friend. If you need something, if you call me in the middle of night, I'm gonna show up. But I'm not gonna go to dinner night or coffee or whatever the hell people do. But when you need me, if you call me, and if you call me, it better be a problem. But if you call me, I will fix your problem. And that was my whole view of friendship, is that, like, in those crisis moments, that's why we have friendship, so that in the unbearable moments, people will show up for us. And, like, over the last couple years, I have because of the come to Jesus my friend had with me. And she's a little scary. So it worked. But, like, I realized that I had it all wrong, that I thought, you just pay the price to have a friend so that when things are unbearable, they'll show up. And I realize now that having friends is what makes life bearable. It's not that, like, they show up when it is. It's some kind of magic magnifier. It's like you don't have the energy to have friends, so how the hell do you have a friend? But then you have a friend, and somehow you have energy. Even though they took your time and energy, you have more of it. It's magic. I don't. I can't. I can't explain it, but it works. I swear. And when I hear you talking about all the hard things that you're doing, I'm like, you deserve that kind of magic in your life. You deserve friends. Not just to bring a casserole, but to make your life feel lighter and better. And so I think you might need to trust the magic and use time. You don't have to get those friends because it won't just be casserole. It'll be a lighterness in your life.

[Abby Wambach]

Thank you, Pod Squad. Thank you for showing up and for helping us stay human with your brave and beautiful questions. I will never forget those moments with you on the road. We cherished every single moment being together with you in person. God, we love doing life with you. We're closing this episode the same way we ended each unforgettable night with Tish singing, We can do hard things. Until next time, I give you Tish Melton and Brandi Carlisle.

[Brandi Carlile]

I walked through fire. I came out the other side.

[Maggie]

I.

[Brandi Carlile]

Chased desire I made sure I got what's mine and I continue to believe that I'm the one for me.

[Abby Wambach]

And.

[Brandi Carlile]

Because I'm mine I walk the line Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks on map A final destination we lack We've stopped asking directions to places they've never been and to be lost loved we need to be known we'll finally find our way back home and through the joy and pain that our lives bring we can do a hard thing I hit rock bottom it felt like a brand.

[Maggie]

New start.

[Brandi Carlile]

I'm not the problem Sometimes things fall apart and I continue to.

[Tish Melton]

Believe.

[Brandi Carlile]

The best people are free and it took some time but I'm finally fine Cause we're adventurers and heartbreaks are map A final destiny we lack We've stopped asking directions to places they've never been and to be loved we need to be known we'll finally find our way back home and through the joy and pain that our lives bring we.

[Tish Melton]

Can do hard things.

[Brandi Carlile]

Cause we're adventurous and heartbreak so mad we might get lost but we're okay with that We've stopped asking directions to places they've never been and to be loved we need to ignore finally find our way back home and through the joy and pain that our lives bring we can do hard things yeah, we can do hard things yeah, we can do things hard.