Podcast Summary: "How to Stay Human with Suleika Jaouad"

Podcast Information:

• Title: We Can Do Hard Things
• Host/Author: Glennon Doyle and Audacy
• Episode: How to Stay Human with Suleika Jaouad
• Release Date: June 12, 2025
• Guest: Suleika Jaouad, author and Emmy Award-winning journalist

1. Introduction to the Conversation (02:18 – 05:59)

The episode transitions from initial advertisements to the heart of the discussion as hosts Amanda Doyle and Abby Wambach welcome guest Suleika Jaouad. Amanda passionately introduces Suleika, highlighting her accomplishments, including her bestselling memoir Between Two Kingdoms, her Emmy-winning Life Interrupted series, and her involvement in the Oscar-nominated documentary American Symphony. Amanda further praises Suleika’s creative talents, particularly her stunning large-scale watercolors and her latest book, The Book of Alchemy: A Creative Practice for an Inspired Life.

Notable Quote:

• Amanda Doyle (05:59): "She is one of the great creative forces of our time, not just in what she does with words and paint, but in how she approaches life itself."

2. Authenticity in Creative Work (07:08 – 21:17)

The conversation delves into the challenges creatives face when promoting their work. Amanda shares a humorous anecdote about Suleika’s dog matchmaking adventure, highlighting the unpredictability and emotional labor involved in creative endeavors. Suleika recounts her experience of desperately finding the perfect dog for a friend, illustrating her commitment and the unforeseen complications that arise.

Amanda then shifts the discussion to her personal struggles with creativity and the emotional toll of pre-launch activities for her book. Suleika empathizes, sharing her own experiences with anxiety and the disconnect between public perception and internal reality. Both Amanda and Suleika explore how external validation often conflicts with personal authenticity, leading to cognitive dissonance.

Notable Quotes:

• Amanda Doyle (07:08): "We laugh and cry and help each other carry the hard so we can all live a little bit lighter and braver, free-er, less alone."
• Suleika Jaouad (15:03): "There’s so much shame, especially when you feel like you’re living your quote unquote dream but it doesn’t sync up with what you thought it should be."

3. The Pressure of Public Image and Social Feedback (21:17 – 32:53)

Abby Wambach introduces the topic of body image and public perception, sharing her uncomfortable experience of being complimented on her appearance despite battling anorexia. Suleika relates by discussing her own struggles with weight loss due to leukemia and how positive comments from others often trigger complex emotional responses.

The hosts and guest dissect the societal obsession with productivity and appearance, linking it to deep-seated insecurities and the need for external validation. Suleika emphasizes how public feedback can distort one's self-image, pushing individuals to present a perfected version of themselves rather than their authentic selves.

Notable Quotes:

• Abby Wambach (16:31): "I have a severe mental disorder called anorexia and I starve myself and I can’t get out of it."
• Suleika Jaouad (32:53): "The commodification of self is not. There’s nothing natural about that."

4. The Role of Journaling in Self-Discovery (43:18 – 62:07)

The discussion shifts to the therapeutic benefits of journaling. Suleika shares her transformative journey with journaling, particularly during her battle with leukemia. She describes how committing to a 100-day journaling project helped her process complex emotions and facilitated deeper connections with herself and others.

Amanda relates by likening her digital journaling to Suleika’s practice, emphasizing the importance of self-examination before presenting an authentic self to the world. They explore how journaling serves as a sacred container for unfiltered expression, allowing individuals to explore their inner selves without external judgment.

Notable Quotes:

• Suleika Jaouad (48:57): "The journal is a sacred container where I can puzzle out my thoughts and be my most vulnerable self."
• Amanda Doyle (49:21): "We cannot show ourselves to others until we show ourselves to ourselves."

5. Balancing Art and Capitalism (32:53 – 40:00)

Amanda and Suleika critique the intersection of creativity and capitalism, questioning whether artists can maintain authenticity while engaging in self-promotion and marketing. They discuss the inherent conflict between creating art for self-expression and commodifying it to reach a broader audience.

Suleika proposes the idea of separating the creation from the promotion, allowing creatives to focus solely on their art while others handle marketing and publicity. This separation, she suggests, could help artists preserve their authenticity and reduce the emotional burden of public engagement.

Notable Quotes:

• Suleika Jaouad (39:44): "Can I make the thing and allow other people who enjoy doing these things to handle the marketing and publicity?"
• Amanda Doyle (38:03): "Why do we sit down and believe in this magical power of art but don’t trust it to find its way without capitalist interference?"

6. Coping Mechanisms and Community Support (62:07 – 63:13)

As the episode nears its conclusion, Suleika emphasizes the importance of community in the creative process. She shares how journaling not only serves as a personal practice but also fosters deeper connections with others when shared in a supportive environment. Amanda advocates for communal journaling practices, such as journaling clubs, to enhance collective healing and understanding.

The hosts express mutual support and encouragement for each other's work, reinforcing the podcast's overarching theme of collective resilience and authenticity.

Notable Quotes:

• Suleika Jaouad (62:57): "Journaling is very connective and relational, even though it's something you do privately."
• Amanda Doyle (61:27): "This conversation is proof that we can do it our way."

7. Insights and Conclusions (63:05 – End)

In their closing remarks, the hosts and Suleika reiterate the importance of staying true to oneself amidst external pressures. They encourage listeners to engage in self-exploration practices like journaling to foster genuine connections and maintain mental well-being. The episode concludes with heartfelt affirmations of support and love among the hosts and guest, embodying the podcast's mission to help each other carry the hard things together.

Notable Quotes:

• Suleika Jaouad (61:53): "We need to be real, not holograms."
• Amanda Doyle (63:08): "We love you. POD Squad. Go forth. Be real, not a hologram."

Key Takeaways:

• Authenticity vs. Public Persona: Balancing genuine self-expression with societal expectations and external validation can lead to internal conflict and anxiety.
• Therapeutic Practices: Journaling serves as a powerful tool for self-discovery, emotional processing, and fostering deeper connections with oneself and others.
• Impact of Capitalism on Creativity: The pressure to commodify art for public consumption can compromise authenticity, suggesting a need for alternative models that preserve creative integrity.
• Community Support: Sharing the journey with supportive communities can alleviate the burdens of creative and personal struggles, promoting collective resilience.

Final Thought: The episode underscores the profound challenges creatives face in maintaining their humanity and authenticity amidst the demands of public life and societal pressures. By embracing practices like journaling and fostering supportive communities, individuals can navigate these complexities with greater ease and connection.