Podcast Summary: We Can Do Hard Things

Episode: How to Stay In Love: Mandy Patinkin & Kathryn Grody

Release Date: October 16, 2025

Overview

In this deeply heartfelt and often hilarious episode, hosts Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle talk with legendary performers Mandy Patinkin and Kathryn Grody about the realities of sustaining love, partnership, activism, and creative energy over nearly five decades of marriage. The conversation meanders from the quirks of long-term commitment, aging, and parenting, to how Judaism influences their activism—especially their public stance on Gaza and Palestine. Brimming with vulnerability and wisdom, Mandy and Kathryn open up about the “brutalities of intimacy,” the art of staying connected, and the power—and limits—of memory and hope.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Aging, Creativity, and Kathryn's New Play

[06:12 - 10:25]

• Kathryn discusses her one-woman show, The Unexpected Third, a candid rumination on aging, optimism, and the transition into elderhood.
  • She critiques society’s discomfort with aging:
    “I've been pissed off about how this deals with age ... I hate, hate the term 'seniors'. I don't mind 'elder.' It has some dignity.” —Kathryn Grody [07:42]
  • Mandy champions her work and urges listeners to attend:
    “You will not be disappointed. It is beautiful, Becky. Be quiet.” —Mandy Patinkin [10:25]
• Kathryn shares a moving moment when a young woman told her, “My generation tells me unless I have my place, my person, my profession and my Botox account by 35, my life is over. And your play says that’s bullshit.” [09:29]

2. Marriage, Messiness, and Repeated Arguments

[13:26 - 38:37]

• The couple’s dynamic is both hilarious and deeply human, as seen in their playful “arguments” about everything from sleep schedules to thrown-away newspaper clippings.
  • Kathryn: “You threw out my John Leonard columns. I've forgiven you.”
  • Mandy: “Clearly, honey, you haven't completely succeeded with that. You just brought it up on a national podcast.” [17:14–17:55]
• Repetitive marriage “issues” include:
  • Kathryn’s talkativeness vs. Mandy’s need for quiet.
    “I am very afraid of quiet… I like to share. I like to turn my mind inside out… but sometimes, I’m not sensitive to my companion’s desires of maybe wanting to say something—or just being confident in the quiet, which he’s much better at than me.” —Kathryn [28:10–29:00]
  • Mandy values “negative space”:
    “I love quiet. I have so much noise in my head all the time… And I just, I wish for peace in my brain.” —Mandy [29:25]
• The “practice” of love is central:
  • “Love isn't a race or a prize. It's a practice. It's something you choose and keep choosing.” —Co-host [25:26]
• Mutual commitment to listen and try:
  • “He can expand his ability to be a little more interactive with fellow humans, and I can work on not taking up so much space.” —Kathryn [38:37]

3. Parenting and the Dog Analogy

[11:12 - 12:34]

• Kathryn shares a poignant story about finding meaning in raising children and caring for a dog, despite not being a “dog person”:
  • “I started and ended my day ... with little bags of dog poop, and I was so pissed off... Then [I saw my son help an elderly man]… and I thought, that’s what I’ve been doing. Raising decent human men.” —Kathryn [11:27–12:34]

4. The Passage of Time, Memory, and Holding On

[47:54 - 57:24]

• Kathryn and the hosts discuss the urge to hold onto tangible objects, memories, and moments—what lies beneath “collecting” and struggles to let go.
  • Kathryn powerfully quotes her own play: “Don’t grow, don’t change. … the way this is, is perfect. But living things do grow. We are not bonsai plants… all suffering comes from us grasping, holding on to that which is impermanent.” [53:35–54:30]
• Mandy invokes spirituality and memory:
  • “If I’m ever not here ... just go to the wishing well or go to the water and I’ll be there.” —Mandy [55:50]
  • “As long as there’s one person on earth who remembers you, it isn’t over.” —Oscar Hammerstein, quoted by Mandy [58:25]

5. Healing, Activism, and Jewish Values

[62:44 - 77:51]

• The couple’s activism is shaped deeply by their Jewish identity, particularly the principle of tikkun olam (repairing the world).
  • Kathryn: “You stand up for injustice wherever you see it. You practice common humanity. … Don’t use [antisemitism] as an excuse to commit heinous wars against humanity.” [64:29]
  • Mandy: “The bottom line is, people on either side who are running these two entities ... are not interested in creating a peaceful solution … find a friend and a partner and come up with more humanitarian solutions.” [69:01–72:03]
  • Kathryn calls for women leaders: “Let women run the world for just 200 years. We absolutely have a better ability to compromise.” [72:35]
  • Mandy concludes with an appeal to elders:
    “Use your voice. Use it twice, three times, thousands of times, for those who are not able to use their voice or too afraid. … Speak your heart and your mind. … The world is dependent on your voice.” [75:33–77:51]

6. Human Connection in the Age of Content

[48:03 - 51:38]

• The hosts and guests joke about the safety of video conversations versus face-to-face meetings, and Mandy’s appreciation for “the back door—the escape” that Zoom provides.
• Kathryn and the hosts reflect on creating “authentic, non AI community” and “a kind of messy embrace of the messy human.” [46:09]

Notable Quotes & Moments

• “They have, over the years, survived and thrived through the brutalities of intimacy.” —Host recalling Mandy/Kathryn [03:07]
• “I think it's interesting that if you're sitting around a table... and there's a pause. ...Why don’t you just wait?” —Mandy [34:00]
• “I love people. They are my passion, my interest, my curiosity. … the pandemic was extremely difficult, because it was the two of us and the trees.” —Kathryn [35:04]
• “All suffering comes from us grasping, holding onto that which is impermanent. … we are all impermanent, and we are future dust.” —Kathryn [54:30]
• “As long as there’s one person on earth who remembers you, it isn’t over.” —Oscar Hammerstein, quoted by Mandy [58:25]
• “You do what you can. You practice kindness. You stand up. This is what I was raised with as a kid.” —Kathryn [64:29]
• “If you want to connect with any entity that was made up of protons and neurons and energy, ... sound never dies. ... It travels.” —Mandy [57:24]
• “Let women run the world for just 200 years... We can help people come together because we are friggin genetic nurturers.” —Kathryn [72:35]
• “Use your speech. Don’t remain silent. The world is dependent on your voice.” —Mandy [77:51]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [06:12] Kathryn describes her new play on aging and optimism.
• [10:25] Kathryn shares impact on younger generations.
• [13:26] Insight into marriage, mutual support, and everyday challenges.
• [17:14] Humorous argument about thrown-away treasures.
• [28:10] Kathryn opens up about her “excessive speaking.”
• [29:25] Mandy on the value of “negative space” and quiet.
• [35:04] Kathryn reflects on loving people and surviving the pandemic.
• [53:35] Kathryn on holding on to impermanence and the suffering it brings.
• [55:50] Mandy on memory, rituals, and the enduring quality of love.
• [64:29] Kathryn on Jewish identity, tikkun olam, and global activism.
• [69:01] Mandy’s plea for peace in Israel and Palestine.
• [75:33] Mandy’s appeal to elders to “use your voice.”

Tone & Takeaways

This episode is candid and emotionally rich, full of playful banter and loving ribbing between Mandy and Kathryn, but also raw, direct, and philosophical about the griefs, hopes, and imperatives of long life and love. Listeners will come away with practical wisdom on partnership (“no one is edited, everyone’s a mess”), aging (“we are not bonsai plants”), and making a difference (“the world is dependent on your voice”).

Memorable Closing Words

• “Be here now as fully as you can, ... and live and breathe in this moment till it takes you to the next one.” —Kathryn [54:30]
• “Thank you for your love for each other, for your love for family, for your love for the planet, for your love for humanity. It comes through in every word that you say.” —Host [78:18]

This summary captures the spirit and wisdom of the episode, offering heartfelt lessons for anyone braving love, aging, and action in a messy, beautiful world.