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We Can Do Hard Things
Inside Trump’s Personal Profits: His Abuse of Power for Private Deals & Who is Paying the Price | Jessica Yellin & Amanda
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- [00:00]
Glennon Doyle
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- [01:05]
Abby Wambach
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- [02:03]
Glennon Doyle
Hey everybody. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. I for one am very grateful to be back with you. I have missed you dearly and miss to the opportunity to know what we need to know over the last week when Glenn and Abby and I have been on the road and so I'm so grateful to be back here with you and with Jessica, whom I also missed very much. Jessica Yellen I really did. I was like, I don't know if I'm missing my hour of rage and clarity or clarity, rage and missing you. How are you doing?
- [02:38]
Jessica Yellen
So sweet. I felt the same way. I don't know. I feel like this is cathartic and so last week I kind of had this pent up thing. I was like I need to talk to Amanda. Yes, tell me before we get into the news, how's your tour? I can't tell you how many people have said to me, oh my God, I can't wait, I'm flying to go see them on tour. You all are like rock stars.
- [02:58]
Glennon Doyle
Oh my gosh, we must be the most disappointing rock stars. But we are not disappointing talkers. It's been so great. I think there's something, it feels similar to how I felt about, like the news. It feels like all this stuff is flooding my head all the time. But then when we talk, it kind of puts it in order. It gathers it up and puts it in the right order and then I can kind of metabolize it better. That's what I feel like being with people has done. It's like, oh, wait, all of these people are out here and we want the same things for ourselves and our people. And there is, there's a lot of power in that and there's a lot of solidarity in that and there's a lot of solutions in being together. And it just feels, it feels really good, actually. It feels really. I feel very thankful for everyone who's coming out and devoting the time to be together. And it's been a great experience. I'm very thankful.
- [03:59]
Jessica Yellen
I love that. And it so resonates with what I keep hearing from people in general, which is, I mean, it sounds obvious, but we so rarely have these communal in person experiences anymore. And every time I'm at some group get together, I went to Denver and I told Denver folks in the news, not noise audience, if you wanna do a meetup, come meet me for dinner at this place.
- [04:22]
Glennon Doyle
Oh, that's so cool.
- [04:23]
Jessica Yellen
And we had the nicest conversation. And what came out was, how many people want to be together with other, like, valued people? They don't know how to initiate it. They sometimes want it to be strangers. Like there is something satisfying in finding strangers who are as concerned, as engaged, as caring as you. And people even said they want to have conversations with folks who don't agree with them on all the things because when they do, it reminds them how much we do have in common and how we're not quite as polarized as, like, the news makes it seem.
- [04:58]
Glennon Doyle
Yes, that's good. I think those people are very cool who want to seek out people who don't think like them. I think that's a very brave thing. And it also is. The more we think it's not possible, the more we're scared of it. And it's kind of when you confront it, you're like, hey, that wasn't so bad. We lived through that, and we found some common ground anyway, like, that's good.
- [05:20]
Jessica Yellen
I also think there's so much that's happening right now that when you start having conversations, you realize most Americans don't like some of these things.
- [05:28]
Glennon Doyle
Right.
- [05:29]
Jessica Yellen
And so it's not even like always. You're communicating with people with totally different views. In fact, there are growing consensus around some things that are happening in this country that are just like, this is un American. We're not into it.
- [05:43]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, that's good. That's good. I love that you met up with people. I think that there's also just something about reminding us. I mean, like, all the algorithms are meant to make us feel like we are alone. And I was. We had Dr. Ozaki on our podcast earlier this week, and he's the researcher into cynicism and stuff. Cynicism and stuff. Cynicism, skepticism, optimism. That's the stuff I was referring to. And he was talking about how, like, even in revolution and progress, historically, hopelessness is most people feeling like most people don't care. And so it's really just the perception of that. And I feel that that's not, like, a platitude. That's his research, and I get that. If most people feel like most people don't care, then I get that that's how you'd feel. But when you get in these rooms and you're like, I'm surrounded by people who care.
- [06:41]
Amanda Doyle
Right.
- [06:41]
Glennon Doyle
And everything else we can work out.
- [06:43]
Jessica Yellen
Right.
- [06:44]
Glennon Doyle
It's very invigorating, and I feel grateful for the opportunity. And also, I am convinced that the universe wants me back out on the road, which I'm leaving tomorrow to go see more people in different cities with Glenn and Abby, because I got hit by a bus this morning.
- [07:01]
Jessica Yellen
Wait, what? Are you serious?
- [07:04]
Glennon Doyle
I was dropping my kid off at school, and I was parked at a red light for, like, a minute, and a bus came behind me and just banged into the back of my car. And I was like, I hear you, universe. I hear you.
- [07:17]
Jessica Yellen
Was it like a love tap, or was it like a car crash? What are we talking about?
- [07:21]
Glennon Doyle
I feel like it felt like love.
- [07:23]
Jessica Yellen
Okay.
- [07:23]
Glennon Doyle
Love doesn't hurt, Jessica. Love doesn't hurt.
- [07:26]
Jessica Yellen
No. Just to be clear. Not suggesting otherwise. Did the bus driver apologize? Like, what are you fine?
- [07:31]
Glennon Doyle
Well, I felt bad for the bus driver because, you know, these things happen. But, yeah, we're pretty banged up over. Not personally. Vehicles are banged up.
- [07:40]
Jessica Yellen
I'm sorry.
- [07:41]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, it's all good. So I'm like, I hear you, universe. I'll get back on that plane tomorrow.
- [07:46]
Jessica Yellen
Good.
- [07:46]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [07:47]
Glennon Doyle
Speaking of all banged up, I know there's so much that needs to be talked about this week and we're gonna have to just push through because we missed last week and there's many things. But what is happening are President is in the Middle east right now. Is that what's happening?
- [08:04]
Jessica Yellen
So today Trump is in Saudi Arabia on the first stop of a three leg trip through the Middle east where he's visiting Saudi Arabia, UAE and Qatar. In Saudi Arabia, he is getting an investment in the US that's right now at $600 billion. But he says he wants to get it up to $1 trillion. I don't know if that's really a thing over the next four years.
- [08:28]
Glennon Doyle
So.
- [08:28]
Jessica Yellen
So that Saudi would invest in artificial intelligence in the US and in partnership with the US and infrastructure, et cetera. What they get out of it is first of all, investments in the US and also some a defense deal. They have $142 billion arms deal that involves the sale of advanced US military equipment to Saudi Arabia. Their big goal is getting civilian nuclear power program. And again, they really want AI and technology collaboration that helps power what they want to build in Saudi Arabia for the future. The President is also looking at making certain sort of economic deals for the US with UAE and Qatar, as well as some personal deals we're going to talk about. I do want to point out while he is over there, he is not stopping in any place connected to Israel, Gaza or Egypt. Any of you know, the interest the US has there in creating, you know, a durable peace in the Middle East. And he's facing some criticism from people asking like, what are the US's foreign policy priorities? Is it peace or is it just getting dollars from some of these other countries?
- [09:43]
Glennon Doyle
It's very interesting. The three countries that made it on the President's list to receive visits are three countries that have announced enormous investments in Trump Incorporated companies over the past several months. So I thought maybe we could run through those because I'm wondering if the investments in Trump Incorporated are counting towards the trillion that he's trying to get for us or whether it will all be him.
- [10:11]
Jessica Yellen
No, I do think it's important to distinguish. He is getting the focuses on investment in the us.
- [10:17]
Glennon Doyle
Okay.
- [10:17]
Jessica Yellen
But also there's a question about why would he extend that opportunity to these countries? Why would he allow for some of the things they also want? And we can point out that at the same time that he's going over there. Saudi Arabia has approved a 47 story Trump Tower in Jeddah and developments in Riyadh. Qatar has approved a Trump International Golf Club, luxury villas worth $5.5 billion. The UAE has okayed an 80 story Trump International Hotel and Tower in Dubai. That's not to mention the cryptocurrency ventures, which would be too many to list here. But I will say that there's a stablecoin, which is a kind of cryptocurrency that's in the chump family name, and Abu Dhabi has announced plans to basically invest $2 billion in that. That's just one of the many cryptocurrency ventures that are at play here right now. There is also the Qatari jet controversy, about which you've heard a great deal lately, where Qatar's royal family is offering Trump a $400 million Boeing plane as a temporary Air Force One replacement, which is illegal, but the Justice Department has determined it is not illegal. Attorney General Pam Bondi, it's worth noting, did work when she was in the private sector for the Qatari government. Trump has said that he will use this plane as Air Force One while in office and then send it to his presidential library to be part of.
- [11:52]
Glennon Doyle
That collection, which would allow it to be for his private use.
- [11:56]
Jessica Yellen
We don't know like he says he won't, but by then, what will he do? You know, that's so far away, it's impossible to hold anybody accountable for that right now. It's bizarre in a number of levels. First of all, there's a joke going around. Jimmy Carter was required to sell his peanut farm before becoming president. So, you know, you can't take, you know, $100 meal from somebody. This is a $400 plane.
- [12:20]
Glennon Doyle
$400 million.
- [12:22]
Jessica Yellen
Sorry. $400 million. Yeah, yeah. Good, good, good detail there.
- [12:25]
Glennon Doyle
I mean, it's semantics, but I feel significant in this case.
- [12:28]
Jessica Yellen
Yeah. Thank you for.
- [12:29]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, I think it's worth pausing here because I think things have been so wild that we kind of passed over what is precedent in terms of just what we have normalized for a president's business holdings. So there is this part of the Constitution which we sometimes forget to think about. It's called the Emoluments Clause. Okay. It's a provision of the Constitution, and it basically says that federal office holders cannot receive any gift or payment or other thing of value from a foreign state or officer. And this idea is that it started in the 1700s when, you know, you got Benjamin Franklin over there accepting a snuff box from the king of France. You've got John J. He brings a horse home from Spain. And everyone's like, oh, this is going to be a problem. Because if foreign governments are giving federal officials things, there is either the appearance of bribery or overt or subconscious favor being bestowed upon these foreign governments. So, for example, you know, maybe it's a horse, maybe it's a snuff box, maybe it's a $450 million jet. So this exists in the Constitution. Separate from that, from the foreign piece. There is this idea that presidents have always done, which is basically divest their personal business while they're in office for the same reason. So Carter puts his farm in a blind trust. Everybody puts their investments, who is a president, in a blind trust. So they can neither see what they're invested in nor see people that are benefiting their own personal business. So there isn't the appearance of impropriety. Trump has not done this opposite at all. He's done quite the opposite. So the crypto thing you brought up, this is crypto that he called, quote, a haven for drug dealers and scammers. This was his prior approach to crypto, which he went from a critic to a cheerleader when he realized that this haven for scammers could actually enrich him personally. He introduces these coins on the weekend of his inauguration, tells people to buy them, these meme coins. They go up a hundred million dollars. Then people start losing money, which in any other world. There's an SEC investigation of this. And then when Trump takes office, coincidentally, his SEC announces that for the first time, the SEC will not be investigating meme coins. That's interesting. And then he's raising all this money for his actual. He has. What is it called? It's Liberty World Liberty Financial, which is a crypto bank. I bring that up because with this whole foreign investment situation that you're talking about in the Trump Incorporated crypto is notorious for you, the difficulty in tracking payments. But the investigations that are underway are showing that more than half of the investments in World Liberty Financial are outside of the United States. So it feels like we went from doing things to avoid the appearance of personal enrichment to just overt personal enrichment. I mean, isn't he hosting something that the top 200 investors in his world, Liberty Financial, are getting a dinner with him, and then the top of the top are getting tour of the White House? So it's like direct personal access for personal enrichment to the President.
- [16:09]
Jessica Yellen
It's the very thing that all those rules you mentioned are designed to prevent. And I'll just add for context, you know, remember in his first term, people were up in arms because foreign officials were taking hotel rooms at the Trump Hotel. So they're spending maybe $1200 a night. Compare that to one Chinese investor spent $30 million after Trump took office on his crypto. And an SEC investigation into that very same person was subsequently dropped.
- [16:38]
Glennon Doyle
Same with Justin Sun. Remember the guy who bought Banana for Six? Oh, okay, that's the same dude. Okay. So, yes, there's 20, 23 sec investigation. He buys $75 million of tokens from Trump, and then Trump gets elected and pauses the SEC investigation. Yes, it's wild, and I know we have to move on to other things, but the royal funds from all three states that he is visiting have committed more than 3.5 billion with a B in the private equity fund run by his son in law, Jared Kushner. It's just wild.
- [17:17]
Jessica Yellen
It's wild. He's also pushed for a new nuclear deal with Iran, and talks are going on, and he's meant to skip those to go to Qatar to get his jet. So there's a lot that's happening. Not just like, yes, his personal enrichment, which is beyond shocking, so wildly unheard of that people don't even know how to deal with it. Right. It's like, in your face, blatant, and no one's stopping it. And at the same time, making foreign policy choices that seem not to be aligned with our traditional interests. Exactly.
- [17:50]
Glennon Doyle
Mm.
- [17:51]
Jessica Yellen
I will say some right wing influencers and conservative influencers are also outraged about especially the Qatari jet, and they are raising alarms. So Laura Loomer, who seems to be like, I don't know, somehow magically directing decisions inside the White House, is outraged. Ben Shapiro, who is a conservative commentator, is also saying this cannot happen. And at least Rand Paul has spoken out, so who knows if there'll be some effort to roll it back. Trump said he would be an idiot or a loser if he didn't take a free plane.
- [18:23]
Glennon Doyle
Nothing's free.
- [18:25]
Jessica Yellen
Correct.
- [18:25]
Glennon Doyle
Nothing is free. That's the point of this.
- [18:28]
Jessica Yellen
And, like, are they going to sweep the walls to make sure it's not bugged or check, I don't know, under the floor to make sure something isn't being delivered in it? Like, what is this?
- [18:37]
Glennon Doyle
I mean, traditionally, my understanding is that the investigations into these types of things would be happening within the independent administrative state of the federal government, but he has appointed all of these loyalists and lackeys to those positions. So that is why the investigations of his actions are not happening.
- [18:57]
Jessica Yellen
Yeah, he doesn't care. Like we used to have ethics watchdogs inside the government. Do you remember in Trump 1, they made this whole show of how he is having his business run by his kids and he's not looking. And they didn't do any of that chit chat this time around.
- [19:12]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah, they're not even pretending anymore.
- [19:14]
Jessica Yellen
Yeah, it's his way. You like it or you stay quiet.
- [19:18]
Glennon Doyle
Well, the good news is, is that in February, he signed an executive order that pauses the prosecutions of corruption under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. So luckily, he's keeping it clean. Like that should have been seen as a precursor to what's to come, which.
- [19:36]
Jessica Yellen
Is important to note. It means he's not the only one who can take what appear to be bribes. That there is a lot more flexibility in business to define what is and isn't, you know, a bribe on your own. They've loosened the rules around foreign lobbying, all these things, it's. It's just one of the many things. It's hard to keep track of where they're making it much easier to do the kind of business that's always been frowned on here.
- [20:11]
Abby Wambach
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- [20:58]
Amanda Doyle
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- [22:02]
Abby Wambach
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- [23:13]
Glennon Doyle
Speaking of bribes and lobbyists, I think it is a pretty easy segue to what is going on that the Republicans announced in the cuts. So can we talk about just generally, state of economy, spending bills, tariffs, like what is going on with the money?
- [23:34]
Jessica Yellen
Yes. So not good headline there. You know, the President, we've talked about this before, has not gotten major legislation passed. Yes, he's passed bills, but sweeping legislation that defines his agenda has defied him. And the one thing he really needs to get done and wants is this big beautiful bill which has those.
- [23:54]
Glennon Doyle
That's a quote, people. That's a quote. The big beautiful bill. If there's one thing this man can do, it's alliterate.
- [24:01]
Jessica Yellen
And may I add, it's also the official name of the legislation now. No, they have called it, Wait, I'll google it. The big beautiful tax cut bill or something. But in all caps.
- [24:12]
Glennon Doyle
It's just embarrassing intellectually, I mean, not to mention just the cruelty and the inhumanity. But just as an intellectual people, it's humiliating.
- [24:23]
Amanda Doyle
It's unbelievable.
- [24:25]
Jessica Yellen
I agree that this is bizarre to have to even say day to day. So here's the thing. Remember, they want to cut these taxes, and in return, they have to find some way to pay for some of the lost revenue. And they've been going back and forth with Trump, vowing over and over no one will touch Medicaid. In particular, Medicaid is off the table. So the House Republicans came out with their proposal how to pay for this, and that is not true. Medicaid is being cut. They want to cut about $880 billion, 715 in Medicaid and Affordable Care act care. 715 billion. And then the rest of it is by cutting things like nutrition assistance to families, snap, food stamps. Right. It's basic care for the neediest people in our society. And the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimates that their cuts to Medicaid alone will cause 8.6 million Americans to lose their health insurance within 10 years. And I just want to add one nuance on this. Those who want to get in a fight with you will say, oh, it's only undocumented people who will lose their Medicaid. Right. That's what they'll say, because that's the messaging. Well, Trump has said that he is going to deport the undocumented people. So that is the way he is, quote, saving money in their health care. This cannot account for that if he's going to deport all those people. So if anybody gets in a fight with you about this, ask them. I thought the undocumented people are leaving the country, so they're not entering the term.
- [26:07]
Glennon Doyle
And then ask them what the hell is wrong with them that they don't think undocumented people deserve healthcare. Yes, Ask. Say that to them right after.
- [26:13]
Jessica Yellen
I know.
- [26:14]
Glennon Doyle
So over and over and over. This is absolutely what we're not going to do. We're going to find the cut somewhere else. But then actually, this is what we're going to do. You said 800 billion with a B. Yeah. Dollars are going to be cut from Medicare.
- [26:31]
Jessica Yellen
Medicaid, 715 billion will be cut from Medicaid.
- [26:36]
Glennon Doyle
Okay? This is the insurance stuff.
- [26:38]
Jessica Yellen
That's the insurance that covers the lowest income kids, the elderly, especially in nursing homes and people with disabilities. Those are the people who are most in need in our society, and that is their coverage. So in California, Medicaid goes by the name Medi Cal, but in other states, it goes by the name of, like, Healthcare Company X. Like, you have to look up what it's called in your state. It might not resonate the word Medicaid might not mean something to you, but this means such a profound erosion in the insurance coverage for people most in need that it's ultimately going to drive up costs because they end up just going to the emergency room, which is more expensive care. It's unsustainable. But what they're trying to do is find these savings and they, you know, President Trump had surprisingly floated the idea of getting some revenue instead by raising taxes on people who make more than $1 million a year. Then he proposed, okay, that's unpopular. Let's just raise taxes on people who make more than $2.5 million a year. And they said, no, we don't want to raise taxes on any of those people. We're going to cut services to the neediest.
- [27:50]
Glennon Doyle
This feels unconscionable to do. You've got the most vulnerable children, the most vulnerable older people, the people with special needs who are going to have their health insurance cut. But this is not an austerity measure. This is not. We don't have enough money. So we're making these cuts. We are making these cuts because we are prioritizing tax cuts to the top 1% of American earners. Right. The reason they need to come up with this 800 billion is because their line in the sand is we will allow the richest of the rich to have even more money. The whole point of this is tax cuts for the rich. Right. Is that's why we have to find this money to pay for it.
- [28:38]
Jessica Yellen
Rich and for corporations. Yeah. And one of the things that's sort of tricky about how they talk about this is they'll say that they're only adding work requirements and new stipulations to Medicaid. So they're saying we're not actually taking coverage, we're just adding. Adding requirements. These are requirements that have the effect of causing people to lose their coverage. So there's a little bit of a dance going on in it. Right?
- [29:06]
Glennon Doyle
Okay. So they're going to require work requirements of the most vulnerable children and the most vulnerable elderly. I mean, that's a reach. Okay. So I was trying to explain this to my kids last night. This whole situation that we're under, and I feel like this is something that I'm like, there has always been an absolutely ridiculous wealth inequality in this country, but I feel like these people, if they want to maintain that, are really overplaying their hand. Because in this bill that they're talking about passing, the Republicans in Congress are talking about passing, per Trump's pressure is the top 0.1% gets more from this tax bill than the bottom 50% of America.
- [29:54]
Jessica Yellen
Yeah, that's what a former budget staffer told Axios.
- [29:57]
Glennon Doyle
I mean, that is wild in a system that is already. I mean, the top 1% of America holds more than 30% of America's wealth. Top 1% holds 30% of America's wealth. The bottom 50% of America holds less than 3% of America's wealth. That is like you're having a birthday party and you invite all the people in America and a hundred of them show up and you call one of them forward and you give them a third of the cake, and then you call 50 of them forward and you take a slice that is 1/10 of the piece that you just gave that one person and have all 50 of them share it. And that is the status quo. And then on top of that, they are taking away health care from the people who are sharing the one tenth of the pie and giving it to the person who has a third. I mean, you don't want a revolution, and you're doing that.
- [30:59]
Jessica Yellen
Yes. So couple things. One, this is not law. This is their proposal. They're now going to debate it this week. And there is pushback internally. So Senator Josh Hawley said it's morally wrong. Do we want to stand for working Americans or not?
- [31:14]
Glennon Doyle
I am morally opposed to Josh Hawley being our moral compass. But okay, he makes a point there.
- [31:19]
Jessica Yellen
But keep in mind, they don't have much margin, so they have to accommodate a lot of folks who have these differing points of view. There are some Republicans who think the cuts don't go far enough, so they're going to get some pushback there. I think a lot about how we've said all along it's going to take a minute for all Americans to really appreciate what's going on here and how deep their changes are and how radical they are. And this is another one that will cut the legs out from not just people that you know and that I know, but from our economy. Right. From the ability of our communities to support the healthcare costs of one another. And I think a good example is what's going on at Newark Airport, because you know how, like, their air traffic control has gone down three times now, maybe four, since we started talking. Who knows?
- [32:09]
Glennon Doyle
Yes.
- [32:10]
Jessica Yellen
And Elon Musk started playing around with the FAA system months ago, and we all said it's going to catch up with us eventually, and then we'll see. We're going to have the equivalent of an air traffic Control outage for people's health care, for their economic well being, for the functioning of our services. Soon enough, if they pass this sort of thing.
- [32:30]
Glennon Doyle
Okay. And so we'll find out about if that actually passes in the coming weeks, in the coming months. Like how. What should we stay tuned for on that?
- [32:38]
Jessica Yellen
Yeah. So this week the House is like debating it. They have to figure out where they land, and then they're sort of compiling it, pushing it all together. There's so many pieces. And then the House will have to vote on what they decide on. So that's gonna be one vote. Then you have to do this thing where it gets pushed together and reconciled with a version the Senate passed and it has to go back over for agreement. So there's going to be multiple stages of this. If Trump gets his way and they succeed, it'll pass in the next month.
- [33:10]
Abby Wambach
Wow.
- [33:10]
Jessica Yellen
Or even the next two weeks. However, we don't know how messy that process will be and it could take longer.
- [33:16]
Glennon Doyle
Okay.
- [33:26]
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- [36:13]
Glennon Doyle
I was watching your videos that you posted and you posted a montage of some of the most alarming coverage of. I don't even know how to describe it. ICE agents just pursuing people, tackling them to the ground, ripping them away from people. Like, what on earth is happening right now with ice? What can you tell us about what's going on? It just seems like it is increasingly more violent, more intense, more ubiquitous than every week prior.
- [36:52]
Jessica Yellen
I'm gonna try to start with just the hard facts. Cause I get really emotional when I talk about this.
- [36:57]
Glennon Doyle
Yes.
- [36:58]
Jessica Yellen
So Donald Trump promised mass deportation and forced removal of undocumented people across the country, promised that to his base. And there's been restlessness among that base that he has not done that aggressively, forcefully enough, fast enough for them. And so partly to demonstrate how aggressive they are, they've now empowered ICE to work with local law enforcement, sheriff's offices, police departments, so that different kinds of law enforcement are merging with ICE into communities around the country where the local community agrees to do that. And they're ripping people literally off the street, out of their cars, in some cases out of their own backyards. People who have no criminal record. And they're doing it in ways that are clearly illegal, in many cases without a question denying them their due process rights. You know, there's story of teachers in Hawaii who were all living together and I showed up in their place of residence prior to going to school and sort of held them. They kept saying, we're legal. Can I go get my driver's license to show you my passport that I'm legal? They wouldn't let them. They begged ICE to let them call a principal to let them know class is about to start. Can we get out? Can we talk? The kind of illegal stuff that's taking place is so chilling. And, and we heard about this one story that went Viral When a 21 year old woman was walking down the street in a residential neighborhood in Worcester, Massachusetts and was tackled by men in paramilitary gear. She had three children, including a young, young child that was. They were all taken from her. Her 16 year old was thrown face down on the ground. She's a DACA covered individual. The 16 year old. And people in the neighborhood started screaming, stop, stop. One woman who came out to protect her was forcibly thrown by the police. That story got a lot of attention and I wanted people to see. That's just one instance of what's happening to thousands of people all over the country right now. Weirdly, invisibly, like, I don't know why this isn't the lead of the evening news. I don't know why it's not everywhere you look all the time. Right now we're employing tactics that we've read about in history books and people in this community are calling them the disappeared.
- [39:33]
Glennon Doyle
Do we know what we can do to stop this? Is there like a quota that he's trying to reach? Do we know where these people are being held? Are they all going to end up like Abrego Garcia and just.
- [39:49]
Jessica Yellen
Well, no, they won't end up all like Abrego Garcia because some of them will just are being deported. And so the system is extremely chaotic. There is a bunch of things that are really troubling. One is it's very patchworky. Some people are being held in like their local jail and it's so overcrowded that they don't have beds or places to rest, that they're stretched out across plastic chairs, that that's where they live. Sleeping on the plastic chair. There's no space for them. One video was smuggled out showing this. There are other places where they're being funneled into private prisons, which is why they're not all like Abrego Garcia because there's a whole industry that's profiting off of this and some people are just being shipped out to other countries that may or may not be their country of origin. And there's so much randomness and lack of care that there's not much tracking of who is Going where some people are getting to see lawyers, some are not. One of the themes you hear over and over from the people who are posting the videos are, I'm a human being. We are human beings. We're just treating people like animals. And this is our government that's doing it, and it's under our watch. And as somebody who studied all these things that have happened in other countries and wondered, why didn't people stop it, I now understand how it's like the apparatus of government is doing this thing. You don't know how to stop. The most we can do, or what we can at least do for now while we figure out more things, is to share the videos, share the stories, make more people aware, because awareness is driving outrage. Even people who voted for Trump are starting to show in polls that they don't like this. Yes, they might want the border enforced and they might want stricter deportations, but they don't align with treating people like this. That's not American to them. Right. And the problem is they're not seeing it in their algorithm. It's being suppressed on my Instagram. You know, I ask people, please go out of your way to share this. Like this, drive this. Otherwise, this stuff does not get circulated. So making more people aware is making a difference, because one of the few things that penetrates Trump's bubble is his approval numbers, Right? And as those fall, especially on immigration, that will become a problem for him and for Republicans in Congress. Those are the two places change can happen. Politically, it's possible. Best case scenario, Trump wants extreme cruelty in the public eye to, quote, appease the most radical parts of his base and then maybe backs off if public opinion turns forcibly against him. But the other thing is, we're waiting on the Supreme Court to rule. Remember, on Abrego Garcia, maybe. Hopefully they're working on some sort of 9.0ruling that would have implications for all of this. If not, there are a lot of court cases right now. We just have to hope that there's a court ruling that's, like, extremely declarative. No ambiguity. You can't do this.
- [43:10]
Glennon Doyle
I wonder if there's also anything that we can do at the local level, because I know that ICE is this beast of cruelty that it is. And it sounds to me like you're saying that ICE is partnering with our local enforcement, police enforcement, in many cases, to carry these out. I mean, I wonder, as local people, to our communities, we can call and find out, are you participating, doing this with ice?
- [43:43]
Jessica Yellen
Yeah.
- [43:43]
Glennon Doyle
And if so, I would like to Register my outrage that you would be using my local funds to terrorize people in this way. I mean, I wonder if there's a localized way that we can be putting pressure in our individual communities that you better not be doing this in my name on my watch, with my funds. Yes, to my neighbors.
- [44:07]
Jessica Yellen
Yeah. And so Tennessee is a good example where their governor has allowed local law enforcement to work with ice. But the community of Nashville is extremely opposed to that and has been very outspoken, pushing back, posting on this, using their rights as citizens to peacefully object. Another example though is the state of Massachusetts. They are not allowing their law enforcement to participate. And yet there are instances where like these young kids, these 16 year old kids were playing with a BB gun, not hurting anybody, and they got taken to the police department because of that. And after they were booked, ICE was waiting outside the door to whisk them away. These 16 year old boys who had no criminal record and they weren't hurting anyone and their family is shrieking, it's unthinkable. And what law enforcement there speculated is that they are surveilling the systems. And so once they were entered into the database, it alerted national ice. We know that the federal government has expanded, expanded its contract with the data company Palantir, which effectively does surveillance and helps law enforcement agencies find and track people using sort of available information about their biography, where they live, their legal documents. You know, they pull in all sorts of data to track people. And now it's being pointed at the undocumented community in a really serious way. Ever see Enemy of the State? Go rewatch that movie. I will say one thing. You asked what we can do. Couple things that are worth noting. And this is collected from some of the immigrant advocacy places. One is if you are especially a white person and a US citizen and you see ice, you can yell la migra to alert anybody in the area that immigration is around. Then you can also, if you see somebody being taken, you can peacefully and calmly start recording and at a distance, don't interfere physically. But you can also ask the person who's being taken, would you like to tell me your name and a phone number so I can call a loved one and let them know if they speak English. You can ask that. You can also ask the person taking them for their name and get their badge and license. Never be aggressive, never interfere, follow their instructions. If they ask you to step away, et cetera. Those are a couple of steps that immigrant advocates say are helpful to take if you feel safe doing it.
- [46:46]
Glennon Doyle
And maybe if you don't and get people into a home. Like, if you can make sure that they're in a home, the reason why they're trolling the streets and following people is because they don't need a warrant if they're on the street. But if people are in their homes, they have to have a warrant. They can't legally enter a home and apprehend someone. Now, I'm not saying they're not doing this illegally, but they can't legally enter a home without permission if they don't have a warrant. So whatever you can do to get people in, if you know ICE is coming to get them into homes and then not open the door, you do not have to open the door if they do not present a warrant. And in so many of these cases, they do not have one.
- [47:42]
Jessica Yellen
One other thing is you can call your member of Congress and ask them to get a tour of detention facilities in your state or in your area. Because one of the biggest unknowns is, you know, what are the conditions, how are people being held? In some cases, they've reopened facilities that were closed. And for all we know, are they up to, you know, inspection? Has anybody checked them out? We don't have a lot of information on what's going on inside.
- [48:11]
Glennon Doyle
I'm going to call my local law enforcement today and make sure that I know whether they are colluding with ice. And I think that's important for all of us to know what's happening with our local dollars and resources.
- [48:30]
Jessica Yellen
Yeah. Even if you're a sanctuary place, State City, ICE has the right to operate there, but your local law enforcement does not have to participate with that right. And that's the thing you can call your members and ask.
- [48:45]
Glennon Doyle
It's very shocking to me that we are having this conversation about the violence and dehumanization of brown immigrants in our country at the exact same week that the United States has chartered a private plane to fly to South Africa to personally escort white South Africans and invite them to be members of the United States community. It is so clearly not about protecting our borders or reducing immigration. It is so clearly about protecting whiteness. This entire conspiracy that is happening right now, the juxtaposition should alarm everyone. And it's based on complete bullshit. I mean, Donald Trump is surrounded by so many South Africans. This is the home of apartheid. This is the place where white people make up 7% of the South African population, but own at least half of South African land. This is the place where apartheid, which set the rules about whether you could vote, whether you could play sports, whether you could do a skilled trade, whether you're allowed to travel, whether you could go to the hospital depended on the color of your skin until 31 years ago. And they still own half the land. Even though they represent 7% of the people, the actual police statistics show that they are not any more vulnerable to violence, white people than any other population, and they fare far better on every single economic indicia than any other population in South Africa. And Trump has identified these people as his heroes and these people as his identified victims. I mean, I just spent 10 days in South Africa and went to the Robben island where Nelson Mandela was imprisoned for, you know, his total imprisonment was 30 years for seeking justice. I mean, this is fresh. The fact that we are identifying South Africa as the place to sow the fear of white America about the retribution that is coming for the injustices that we have perpetrated against the people in our land is alarming and it's revealing. It's thou doth protest too much. People need to pay attention to the parallels and really see this for what it is, that it has nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with white people's fears.
- [51:46]
Jessica Yellen
They're being welcomed as refugees and they're being given asylum, citing claims of racial discrimination, which is striking given that the administration has taken a policy of not recognizing asylum claims or refugee status for the undocumented people here. And also, can I just point out for the translators, aides, fixers who stood by US Troops in Afghanistan at great risk to themselves, the very people that Trump campaigned with great outrage, saying that Biden abandoned when the US Pulled out of Afghanistan. And how could we abandon the people who helped U.S. troops? Their status is being revoked. Those people are in danger, physical danger for their lives. But the Afrikaners, the white Afrikaners you mentioned, are being recognized as political refugees who get that special status in the.
- [52:42]
Glennon Doyle
US and it's not even true. They're not even subject to more violence. They are a symbol of, oh, if there is any kind of pushback against white power and white supremacy, which by definition the elimination of apartheid is, then you people are necessarily victims. Like it's not even true when apartheid was ended, they negotiated a peace, which they should be so lucky that Mandela and the ANC didn't actually seek justice. What they sought was a peace, and the negotiation was, hey, remember when 7% of the people had a hundred percent of the power? And at that time, well, more than 50% of the land. We're gonna undo that arbitrary system of violence and corruption. And it was negotiated that the land would be transferred back to the people to whom it belonged. And it has been 31 years, and that hasn't been done. The people of South Africa have waited 31 years for a semblance, a taste of what should have happened then, and they have gotten zero of it. And now that it looks like we are actually going to buy back the land that you should never have had. Colonizers, Afrikaners, suddenly we care about justice. It's absolute insanity. And just remember that the people are starving in Sudan and are not allowed to come here. The people in Afghanistan who put their lives and their families on the line based on our word that we would stand by them if they stood by us, are being abandoned. But you're a white African who had undue privilege for your entire existence based on racism. And the minute you think that things aren't going your way, we're going to throw you asylum and send you a charter plane. It's outrageous. It's outrageous. And people should be paying close attention and people should be studying the history of South Africa because the people who are perpetrating this right now are fascinated, fixated, and want to sow the fears that are happening in us. And it's insanity, and we need to reject it.
- [55:00]
Jessica Yellen
Can I add one thing?
- [55:02]
Glennon Doyle
Please add seven things.
- [55:03]
Jessica Yellen
We didn't mention tariffs, so I just want to say tariffs.
- [55:08]
Glennon Doyle
Okay, Tariffs. Here's what you need to know about tariffs. Tariffs. Always going to have them, never going to let them go. People are going to be kissing my ass to try to get me to get rid of those tariffs. Oops, that didn't work. Let's take away the tariffs.
- [55:21]
Jessica Yellen
Kind of take away. With zero concessions, Trump radically dropped tariffs on China, but now they're still at 30%. And I hear from businesses that the level of chaos cannot be captured in words or even outraged faces. People don't even know how to charge for things or when they're coming on what price. It's absolutely meltdown.
- [55:46]
Glennon Doyle
I mean, my big question is, what is the tariff on a $450 million cutter jet?
- [55:58]
Jessica Yellen
I feel like they should consult with Trump because maybe he'd give them a waiver.
- [56:02]
Glennon Doyle
I mean, no.
- [56:04]
Jessica Yellen
Yeah, yeah.
- [56:04]
Glennon Doyle
Gonna do any self dealing like that, Jessica?
- [56:07]
Jessica Yellen
I'm just crazy. Maybe.
- [56:08]
Glennon Doyle
Oh, Lord. Y' all all right? That was that better than getting hit by a bus.
- [56:16]
Jessica Yellen
What do you think of we are trying to do calm news, or we can try to do calm news.
- [56:22]
Glennon Doyle
Can we? I'm not even trying anymore here's what I'm trying to do. I think that, first of all, we need a different name. But second of all, I just keep thinking of the quote like you should be outraged by outrageous things. I don't want people to necessarily stay calm. What I want them to do is stay informed. Activated and engaged. Engaged and integrated. They're trying to flood us with this shit so that we either turn away or go numb, so that we feel like we can't handle it. We can handle it. We will handle it. And we're trying to make sense of it. And we're trying to cut through all the bullshit.
- [57:03]
Jessica Yellen
Noise.
- [57:03]
Glennon Doyle
Noise. No, I don't want to take your thing. News, not noise. We're trying to cut through the noise, give you the news and show what's important and show how we can handle it. And we must, actually, we must.
- [57:16]
Jessica Yellen
We're doing it.
- [57:17]
Glennon Doyle
We're doing it. Jessica, thank you. Thank you for always bringing all of the stuff we need to know, telling me when I'm wrong and sticking with us. We can do hard things and we must.
- [57:32]
Jessica Yellen
It's a slog, but this is such good therapy to just talk to you every week. I'm very glad the bus just did a little bit of damage to your car and that's all.
- [57:41]
Glennon Doyle
Me too.
- [57:42]
Jessica Yellen
Wtf?
- [57:45]
Glennon Doyle
Okay, you guys, we're going to stay on it. You now know what you need to do. Call your congressperson. Call your local police force. Find out if they're colluding with ice. Maybe read up on the ACLU website to figure out what you can and should do in any situation when you are facing ice. They have really, really helpful checklists there. Keep that in your purse. Keep that in your pocket. We need to be prepared for when these things happen in front of us, because it's a matter of time until they do. We can do hard things. We will see you next week. Bye Bye.
- [58:21]
Jessica Yellen
Foreign.
- [58:27]
Amanda Doyle
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things. Following the POD helps you because you'll never miss an episode. And it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We can do hard work. Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso, Allison Schott and Bill Schultz.