We Can Do Hard Things: Jia Tolentino – The 1% of Life that Makes It All Worth It (Best Of)
Released on April 27, 2025
Hosts: Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle

In this compelling episode of We Can Do Hard Things, host Glennon Doyle, alongside co-hosts Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle, welcomes acclaimed writer and New Yorker staff writer Jia Tolentino. The conversation delves deep into the complexities of modern life, exploring themes of paradox, shame, motherhood, the pervasive influence of the internet, and personal growth. Through candid dialogue and poignant reflections, Jia and the hosts navigate the intricate landscape of human experience, offering listeners profound insights and relatable anecdotes.

Introduction and Background

Amanda Doyle opens the episode with enthusiasm, introducing Jia Tolentino and sharing personal anecdotes that underscore the genuine connection between the hosts, despite not having met in person. Jia's impressive credentials are highlighted, including her bestselling book Trick Mirror, numerous awards, and her significant contributions to The New Yorker.

Amanda Doyle [02:18]: “Gia Tolentino is a staff writer at The New Yorker, a screenwriter, and the author of the New York Times bestseller Trick Mirror...”

Jia Tolentino expresses her gratitude for being on the show, setting a warm and inviting tone for the conversation.

Jia Tolentino [06:32]: “I am so happy to be here. Truly. It's an honor to be here. Thank you for having me.”

Navigating Paradoxes in Personal and Social Contexts

The dialogue swiftly transitions to the concept of paradoxes, particularly within the framework of personal identity and social structures. Glennon Doyle reflects on her own experiences balancing activism with participation in seemingly contradictory systems.

Glennon Doyle [07:07]: “...we have been living in our lives to experience...”

Jia shares her tumultuous college years at UVA, navigating sorority life while grappling with her evangelical upbringing. This duality exemplifies the broader theme of living amidst conflicting values and expectations.

Jia Tolentino [08:42]: “...I have spent all of sorority rush getting super high and just seeing how much I could lie to people.”

The conversation delves into the internal conflict of participating in systems that one might simultaneously critique, highlighting the inherent contradictions in striving for personal growth within societal frameworks.

The Weight of Shame and Systemic Participation

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the concept of shame—both personal and societal. Jia articulates her feelings of shame in various aspects of her life, particularly regarding her inadvertent participation in exploitative labor chains and the childcare market.

Jia Tolentino [15:03]: “I feel ashamed when I order things online... there needs to be federally funded universal childcare.”

She emphasizes the need for systemic change, advocating for policies that address the root causes of these ethical dilemmas. The hosts explore how personal shame often intersects with broader social injustices, complicating individuals' relationships with their actions and choices.

Jia Tolentino [13:01]: “I think there's something about kind of baseline American emotional ideology...”

Motherhood: Beyond the Idealized Narratives

Motherhood emerges as a profound and multifaceted topic. Jia candidly discusses her experiences, breaking away from the often sanitized narratives to reveal the raw and existential fears intertwined with raising children in a tumultuous world.

Jia Tolentino [50:03]: “The way motherhood is often spoken about is this sort of sweet filigreed net that's hovering unspoken over a giant lake of existential fear and instability.”

She reflects on the moral and environmental implications of bringing new life into a world fraught with challenges, expressing a conflicted sense of responsibility and pride.

Jia Tolentino [52:19]: “I have some sort of moral trouble about having knowingly birthed an upper-middle-class consumer that will be probably as bad for the planet as I have been.”

The conversation highlights the paradox of motherhood as both an incredibly rewarding and deeply challenging experience, encapsulating the essence of doing "hard things" every day.

The Digital Dilemma: Internet and Connectivity

The hosts delve into the pervasive influence of the internet on personal well-being and societal structures. Jia shares her evolving relationship with the digital world, from leveraging it for her writing career to feeling increasingly alienated by its relentless pace and the rise of surveillance capitalism.

Jia Tolentino [29:20]: “I can feel my brain kind of leaking out my ears...”

She candidly discusses her proactive measures to regain control over her online presence, utilizing tools like Self Control and Freedom to limit internet usage and prioritize her real-life experiences.

Jia Tolentino [33:48]: “I tried to shrink my involvement with the Internet. I have to use programs like Self Control on my laptop and Freedom on my phone.”

The hosts and Jia explore the dichotomy between the benefits of digital connectivity and its potential to erode genuine human interactions, emphasizing the importance of balancing online and offline lives.

Amanda Doyle [40:26]: “How do we really connect when we're not body to body?”

Embodiment and Presence: The Quest for Authentic Connection

Furthering the discussion on digital engagement, the conversation shifts to the importance of physical presence and embodied human connection. Jia contrasts the disembodied interactions online with the profound sense of presence she seeks through real-world experiences like live music and intimate gatherings.

Jia Tolentino [41:53]: “Something like a podcast is different... it is connection... but it's the false disembodied connection of the Internet.”

Glennon Doyle and Amanda Doyle echo this sentiment, underscoring the emotional and existential fulfillment derived from face-to-face interactions versus virtual engagements.

Glennon Doyle [36:42]: “That's how you know you're human. You're being human.”

Personal Growth Through Transcendence and Responsibility

The hosts explore personal growth mechanisms, including Jia's use of psychedelics as a means of achieving transcendence and confronting existential fears. Jia reflects on her annual acid trips as a tool for emotional recalibration and reconnecting with a sense of smallness and transcendence.

Jia Tolentino [47:34]: “I really desire a sense of transcendence and of smallness...”

Amanda Doyle shares her own experiences with psychedelics, contemplating their potential therapeutic benefits and the complexities of integrating such experiences into a sober lifestyle.

Amanda Doyle [46:51]: “I am very seriously considering doing medicinal...”

The conversation highlights the delicate balance between seeking transcendence and maintaining personal responsibility, particularly in the context of motherhood and societal roles.

Final Reflections: Embracing the Beauty and Terror of Humanity

As the episode draws to a close, Glennon Doyle poignantly encapsulates the duality of human experience—the profound beauty and accompanying terror of deep connection and awareness.

Glennon Doyle [54:43]: “It's only beautiful because it's terrifying. And it's only terrifying because it's beautiful.”

Jia Tolentino echoes this sentiment, reflecting on the interconnectedness of life's challenges and the fragile yet resilient nature of human existence.

Jia Tolentino [54:27]: “Being here is a gift and it's a malleable one and that malleability is the most important part of it.”

The hosts and Jia leave listeners with a thoughtful contemplation of the "1%"—the small, meaningful aspects of life that render the vast expanse of challenges and paradoxes worthwhile.

Amanda Doyle [55:30]: “It's like, I have to make sure that doesn't only apply to my daughter...”

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Amanda Doyle [02:18]: “Gia Tolentino is a staff writer at The New Yorker, a screenwriter, and the author of the New York Times bestseller Trick Mirror...”

• Jia Tolentino [08:42]: “I have spent all of sorority rush getting super high and just seeing how much I could lie to people.”

• Jia Tolentino [15:03]: “I feel ashamed when I order things online... there needs to be federally funded universal childcare.”

• Jia Tolentino [29:20]: “I can feel my brain kind of leaking out my ears...”

• Jia Tolentino [50:03]: “The way motherhood is often spoken about is this sort of sweet filigreed net that's hovering unspoken over a giant lake of existential fear and instability.”

• Glennon Doyle [54:43]: “It's only beautiful because it's terrifying. And it's only terrifying because it's beautiful.”

Conclusion

This episode of We Can Do Hard Things offers a rich, introspective exploration of the multifaceted challenges that define contemporary life. Through Jia Tolentino's honest disclosures and the empathetic guidance of the hosts, listeners are invited to reflect on their own experiences with paradox, shame, and the quest for authentic connection. The conversation underscores the importance of embracing vulnerability, seeking genuine human connections, and navigating the complexities of personal growth amidst an ever-evolving societal landscape.

By shedding light on the "1%" moments that anchor us amidst life's turbulence, the episode serves as a testament to the resilience and courage inherent in confronting and transcending the hard things we all face.