Abby Wambach (3:22)

Welcome to We Can Do Hard Things. You are now hearing a special episode that we just decided to do last minute because although we asked 2025 to bring us more easy things, 2025 has thus had different ideas. And we are in the middle of a very, very hard thing, which is the fires that have been just raging through Los Angeles. And we are reporting to you from outside of Los Angeles in a place where I live and Abby lives that is pretty much sheltered from the fires, but close. So the town that I live in has become. All we've done all day, every day is watch and listen and field texts and calls from every friend we have, many of whom have lost their homes, many of whom don't know where to go. The outskirts of LA towns are filled with people like us who have been just trying to welcome people that need a place to stay. The streets are full of cars of people we don't know. The homes are open. There's a lot of beauty and there's a lot of terror. So my dear friend Jessica Yellen is sitting with me right now. We are in our home. We are in our office, slash Chase's room, slash now Jessica and Bruno's room.

Chase (4:56)

Thank you.

Abby Wambach (4:58)

Because Jessica is well. Can you explain? The POD Squad knows Jessica Yellen. Okay, Jessica Yellen, let me just read your formal bio so we can get this down even though they already know you well. Jessica Yellen, our dear friend, is the founder of News Not Noise, a pioneering Webby Award winning independent News brand. Over 1 million subscribers and followers across IG and other digital media rely on Jessica and News Not Noise to understand what matters, which experts to trust and to manage their information overload. She is the former Chief White House Correspondent for CNN and an Emmy and Gracie Award winning political correspondent for abc, MSNBC and cnn. You can follow her on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook. Jessica Yellen, you can also find the News Not Noise newsletter On substack. I can't believe.

Jessica Yellen (5:51)

Could you do Bruno's bio really quick?

Abby Wambach (5:53)

I know, I can't.

Jessica Yellen (5:53)

Whoever knows who Bruno is?

Abby Wambach (5:55)

I can't believe that Bruno is not in your bio. That is. I'm not. You want me to. I'm not gonna. What would you add? I mean, mother of. Well, he happens to be. He's a multipoo, so he's like 0.5 pounds maybe, right?

Chase (6:08)

Gained a little bit of. Since this fire.

Abby Wambach (6:10)

Yes, yes. Yeah, well, we've been stress eating. Yes, exactly. He's completely attached to Jessica. When she stands up and leaves the room, he gets very stressed and starts circling. He is a beta. I would say our French bulldog, Honey, is an alpha and is being such a bitch and is not at all offering the welcoming and comforting environment that I am effing trying to provide. Refugees from Los Angeles, it's like they walk in our house and we're like, welcome. And Honey's like, get the fuck out. Yeah, it's really upsetting. Actually. Jessica had to kind of encouraged me to calm down about it.

Chase (6:46)

Honey, like, wants to protect her place and y'all, I respect that.

Abby Wambach (6:50)

So rude. Anyway, okay, so Jessica, why don't we just start with how we ended up together? Let's. Let's just take people back. Do you even remember, like, if it's been five days, it feels like it's been a month.

Chase (7:08)

I know it does. So you know what's interesting is I first became aware that we were in danger of a fire last Saturday. Like a week ago Saturday, because I was traveling home from my vacation and I got this weird alert on my phone from the county saying extreme winds are headed to Los Angeles this Tuesday. And I can't remember if it said life threatening fire danger, but it had language like that. And I started looking around for other information and I couldn't find any. I was looking at the reports like, what are these winds that are. They said that where the winds. What's the danger? There was no more information after that until sometime late Tuesday morning when a fire broke out in the Palisades.

Abby Wambach (7:52)

So there was one morning where I just started texting people because I knew, okay, our town's gonna be all right. So just people that I. One morning I texted you and said, if you need to come, come. What day was that?

Chase (8:05)

I think it was Wednesday.

Abby Wambach (8:06)

Okay, so. And then you said to me, no, I'm good, we're okay.

Chase (8:10)

Uh huh.

Abby Wambach (8:11)

And then six hours later I said.

Chase (8:14)

Actually, would it be okay if I.

Abby Wambach (8:16)

Came down with Bruno with Bruno. And I said, absolutely. And you are also going to have my cousin, my cousin's husband, my cousin's three kids, my cousin's babysitter.

Chase (8:26)

It was just like a house full of Bruno's heaven.

Abby Wambach (8:30)

Yes.

Chase (8:30)

More dogs, more people, kids. He was in heaven.

Abby Wambach (8:33)

So at that point, you came. You just got out fast. You did not bring much.

Chase (8:37)

Yeah. First, I just want to say such a deep and heartfelt thank you to you and Abby. You've given me such an amazing welcome. I don't have enough gratitude to not just, like, a place to stay, but such a warm, safe, cozy environment. Thank you. And loving makes me feel safe. In a weird time, what happened is I have an uncle who is been running emergency rooms. He's a doctor for decades, and he lives in a wildfire zone up in Northern California. And. And he reached out to me after you'd texted, like, I don't know, a couple hours later, and he's like, can I call you? And we had a conversation, and he said, you know, I've lived in this area for a long time. You don't want to be the person who waits until they give an evacuation order to leave, because then you get stuck in crazy traffic. You don't know if your car breaks down, if you don't get gas, something. You want to get out ahead of it. If you think you might be in one of those zones, what's the harm? What's the harm in just packing and going? And I looked at the map, and I was like. And I started working over in my mind through the day, and I was like, I should be smart. Because at that point, it was just. It had gone from Tuesday morning, this terrible fire is in the mountains of Palisades to Wednesday. Tons of people I know had lost their homes. Entire neighborhoods were flattened. No authority was in charge. The mayor wasn't even in town at that time. It just felt like there was chaos. So I was like, yeah, I should just do the smart thing.

Jessica Yellen (10:04)

Jessica, has your. Where you live received an evacuation order as of now, or is it still pending where you actually are?

Chase (10:13)

So there's two categories. There's evacuation warning, which means pack up, be ready, and if you're smart, just go. And then there's evacuation order, which means drop everything, leave your house now. Your life is in danger immediately. And that's when the authorities knock on your door and you have to get out. I am not at order, but my place is at warning.

Abby Wambach (10:35)

Right.

Chase (10:36)

So it's in the red zone.

Abby Wambach (10:38)

Jessica, let's imagine that a Lot of people listening have no clue how LA works or what is happening right now. Let's just do a very quick version of what's going on. LA is a humongous city made up of a million different parts and neighborhoods and zones. And how would you describe this? Fire for Dummies?

Chase (10:59)

Yeah. So LA is so vast. Think of it almost more like a small state, the size of like, Rhode island and Delaware together. And so you have different pieces that are, you know, completely different topography. But right now what you have is this one big fire. People keep hearing about the Palisades fire, which is by the beach. And let's just be straight to the point. It's a wealthy community.

Abby Wambach (11:23)

It's.

Chase (11:23)

It's got a lot of resources and it's huge parts of it have burned to the ground. That fire is raging. It feels like it's. It's a little contained, but it feels out of control because it's threatening additional communities in that very sort of wealthy part of town, moving into them, a lot of celebrities there, et cetera. On the other side of town, further east and inland is Aladena and Pasadena. And that has a more mixed makeup socioeconomically and racially, and all of that a little more urban. And it's also out of control fire. I say that. I mean, the feeling of it feels out of control because we don't know what's gonna happen. I think it might be a little bit contained. Technically, those are the two main ones. And then there are these other smaller fires that they have more control over. But, you know, the main thing that's happening is these crazy Santa Ana winds are coming in and blowing at very high rates, and. And even a little fire can suddenly turn into a conflagration. So you have to keep your eye on all of these, and they're dotted all across the region. I'd love to say something about these two fires and why those two, and I'm sure we'll talk more about what's happening. Why is this happening? Both those beachside fire and the in town fire I talked about started in mountains, in areas where people live in nature. And those mountains have dried up lately, and so they raged in these wildish areas where there's residential building. And it got so much fuel there, it sort of raced from those mountains into the flatlands, towns that surround them. And that's why you're seeing these two locations, because there's so much mountainous fuel for these fires.

Abby Wambach (13:08)

Oh, okay. And there's been no rain in these parts of LA for Six to seven months. Right, so this is all climate related. It's also, I think we have to talk about what is being perceived by many as a complete failure of leadership. Now I want to be careful. We've talked so much about how to talk about this outwardly because there are moments for just the survival and the getting together and the focusing on the heroes, which we will do. But it is real. It is also the challenges that have come up because of lack of leadership or organized leadership has now been taken as talking points by MAGA and the right, which is tricky. But as you and I have both said, there's parts of it that are real. So let's talk about first, let's talk about the devastation and then let's talk about the second terror which we all have all experienced, which is how did this happen? Why was there not more preparation? Where is the leadership? And why has the rollout been such fuckery?

Chase (14:22)

Which Totally, totally.

Abby Wambach (14:24)

Okay, so first of all, let's talk about who has lost what, like what has the law spin.

Chase (14:30)

Okay, can I back up for two seconds just to give people a setting the scene. California's largely desert parts of it and LA's built, surrounded by desert. We ship in water, we have deals to get water brought in here. For the longest time we had plenty of rainfall too, that made it very livable. But in the last 15 years or so we've gone through periods of extreme drought. I mean, years where it got dry so that it became normal in Los Angeles for the mountains to look brown and dry and everything to look like scrub brush. Then in 2022 and 2023, we got these huge rains that came in and all of a sudden Los Angeles looked like what it used to look like when I was a little kid. The mountains were green, there were trees with foliage. It was like, oh, this is la, I remember. And so we had this like lulling into complacency that, you know, this drought period was over this year, 2024, that changed and the drought came back. We haven't really had rainfall since April and those mountains have turned brown again. But what changed is that for those two years with the rain, there was all this new growth. So you had all this baby vegetation growing that then got very, very dry this year because of the drought. And all that dried out vegetation turned into fuel for this fire tinder. And so it's covered all those mountains we talked about all over the region. And you know, the duty on the part of officials and homeowners is to clear that vegetation, make sure. It's not in your hillside area. So it doesn't fuel fire. That didn't happen. So LA is covered. I mean there are spots where, you know, some responsible homeowners did, but largely not. And so that is provided like made this a tinderbox. On top of it we get these unusual winds, Santa Ana that blow in from the desert. And they're meaningful because they're very dry, they have no moisture in them. So they further dry out that vegetation. And on top of it, for whatever reason, it never happens. We got Santa Ana's are moving 50 to 100 miles an hour. That is faster than some hurricanes. So we got essentially a dry hurricane. And when I said at the beginning I got this notice that we're going to have life threatening winds with fire danger. That's what they're talking about. We're getting a dry hurricane inside a drought situation in a kind of desert area where if someone lights a match the things could all blow up. Right. And it happened. So the questions now are like who was responsible for not clearing that brush? Why was there not better preparation to acknowledge the kind of reality we're living in? So the first place where we had to go to your question now the devastation was the Palisades. And it hit this part of the Palisades which is there's this mountain bluff that overlooks the ocean where it's just beautiful homes with views. But it has a lot of that dry vegetation. It raced through there so fast that people that I know we're trapped at the top of the mountain with fire ringing the mountain at the bottom, they're up there with their kids and pets and couldn't get out of their houses one road down. How do we get out? So that all caught on fire and entire blocks and blocks are gone. Then it raced down from there into the town. There's a town down at the bottom and just it was old town like little small businesses that had been there for my whole life and just it looks flattened, gone, power down. You know, you've seen pictures. It's, it's wild looking. There were complaints that the fire hydrant stopped working and that they didn't have enough warning to get out. We can talk about why the fire hydrants stopped working. It's much more complicated than what they said. It has to do with water pressure. And urban fires don't usually burn for days because of those high, high winds which are also pushing the fire real time. Right. We couldn't put helicopters up in the sky because it's not safe for the pilots. We couldn't put planes up. And the firefighters say, with a fire like this, you need aerial firefighting. You can't fight it by ground. So they were all doing their best, pulling all this water from the same sources. It pulled out so much water that it didn't allow adequate water pressure to fill the hydrants back up. So they say it wasn't that the hydrants didn't have the water, they didn't have the system that pushes the water up was too strained to do its job. So there's this whole fight about where the fire hydrant's not working. And it's not about that, it's about physics, right? And the question is, like, maybe given climate change, we should not be relying on fire hydrants. We'll get back to that. Right then over in Altadena, another fire breaks out. Well, now you have all these resources already deployed in the mountainous canyons of Palisades that can't get over to the other side of town. And the other side of town is burning up and on fire too. And it's just draining the resources from both sides. Similar thing, mountainous terrain, vegetation that's dry races into town. The difference is that's a much younger, more diverse community, don't get me wrong, some beautiful homes and old, old restaurants. And like just such an important part of LA also burns through the town. And it's still raging. Now.

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Abby Wambach (23:31)

What are people saying about the origins of these fires? I know they're not all the same, but how are they starting to the best of your knowledge?

Chase (23:43)

So the Palisades fire, we don't know. There's all this talk that it was somebody doing something in their backyard. I don't have any knowledge. I do know that in some cases embers can jump to a nearby location and start a fire. But the fires we're seeing at Embers are not close. Like I should also note that as of recording, I think there are like five active fighters, right. And then many, many little ones that they're putting out all the time. And there's a lot of talk and even, you know, some real evidence that there's arson. Yeah and we don't know, is it just jerks or is there some sort of motivation behind it? But there's clearly the level of difficulty for Los Angeles's leadership. It's sort of a nightmare scenario where they're fighting fires now, there's looting going on. They have to keep people safe. People are dressing as firefighters and going into homes to steal stuff. And there are arsons happening in crazy spots all over, like as far away as you can think. How do you fight all this at once?

Abby Wambach (24:47)

Yeah. God. Okay, so why, before we move on from the political stuff, why is everyone mad at Karen Bass?

Chase (24:56)

So I'm gonna say there's a couple things.

Jessica Yellen (24:58)

I mean, who is Karen Bass?

Chase (24:59)

Oh, the mayor of la. And I'll say there was a very brutal, like, very politically divisive mayoral race that happened not long ago between Rick Caruso, who's a very successful, accomplished real estate developer in Los Angeles, who also owns the fanciest mall in the Pacific Palisades, the area that just built that just burned. And it is one of the only structures that remain standing. And that is because he took extra efforts to protect the buildings, deploying fire retardant systems. I don't know what. There's, you know, maybe other things. And so there's sort of combo respect that his stuff standing and questions like, if you could do that for your mall. How about everything else? There's a lot of back and forth. Karen Bass is a longtime member of Congress, served in the California legislature, black woman, was on the short list to be Biden's vice president when that was being decided. She won. But it was very, again, divisive in la and there were a lot of people who are still Team Caruso. Right. And so I told you I got that warning alert last Saturday. Fires, life threatening danger winds that apparently LA was warned of that the Thursday prior to when I got the notice. I got that notice on Saturday. It went out to the public that Saturday. Bass, the mayor, got on a plane and flew to Ghana in Africa for a ceremony for the new president of Ghana as part of an official delegation that the White House asked her to join. So she was out of town. The fire started Tuesday. They said she was flying back, but she did not get back. Remember I said the fire raced through Palisades, burned down. The Palisades, raced through Altadena, burned down Altadena. She still was not back. And she got back like Wednesday afternoon or evening, obviously, like, yes, she's saying, I can deal from afar, blah, blah, blah, and all those things but what we lacked then, and I think still lack today, is sort of a commanding central voice doing, you know, a daily clear press conference, telling us, here are the assets deployed. Here are the regions burning. Here is our plan to tackle it. They are doing press conferences.

Abby Wambach (27:25)

Yes, they are.

Chase (27:26)

But I just, like. Am I allowed to say curse words here?

Abby Wambach (27:30)

Oh, it's encouraged.

Chase (27:31)

Okay. She's not working.

Abby Wambach (27:32)

No, you know, it's.

Chase (27:33)

It's not work. Like I told you, my thing is in the fire warning zone. I'm not getting. I signed up for every alert there is. I stopped getting official alerts from the city and county, like, 48 or 72 hours ago.

Abby Wambach (27:46)

Yeah. And what we should tell the pod squad also is that not only is Jessica not getting what she needs to get, although she had to go back home to her house yesterday and take what she wanted to keep, which I want to get to that experience for you. But the emergency evacuation system continuously sends out false alarms. So I'm sitting in my house with the kids, having just, you know, spending most of my day explaining to them why it's not coming to us and why it's okay and why they're okay and telling them facts. And then our phones blow up with a. With a sound that is even louder than, like, what you'd get on an Amber Alert. It's so scary and jarring. And then a flash comes up that says your. I'm paraphrasing, but it says, your area is in danger. Get in the car and leave now. And it's from LA county, so the first.

Jessica Yellen (28:42)

To your entire family.

Abby Wambach (28:43)

To my entire family. So Emma's at school. She's texting me, mommy, Mommy, you said it was. Are you leaving? What's happening? Tish is freaking out. Chase is out of the country. Like, they're all. And thousands of people get in their car in la or get in. You know, people run, they go. The roads are packed again. People's nervous systems are. And 25 minutes later, there's something that says that was an accident. Now, please understand that this has happened, what, three or four times? Like, it keeps at least happening. And so to you specifically, or is this just around.

Chase (29:24)

No, city wide, all these people are getting false leave notices. But people who are in the evacuation or, like, warning zones are not getting some notices. It's just food.

Jessica Yellen (29:35)

But also, it's a classic cry wolf case. Like, if you get. For the fifth time, you must evacuate now, you're going to be like, forget it. It's not anything. And like, how do you know when you really need to.

Abby Wambach (29:46)

And they keep having these press conferences where some poor guy who. I mean, as someone who can't even get my microwave to work, I do have a little bit of, like, sympathy about this, because I can't freaking imagine sending, like, the first time. I was, like, imagining this room with an intern where they're like, God damn it, Sheila, we told you to save it in draft. Sheila.

Jessica Yellen (30:05)

Jesus, we're not writing you a wreck for Yale, Sheila.

Abby Wambach (30:09)

But now I'm like, okay, no. Like, there has to be a button. Like, can you press off at least? Can you just press stop? And it's a. It's a mess.

Chase (30:18)

It's a mess. I mean, I wonder if they're being hacked, because they did say it's an IT problem. Like, it's not a person hitting a button button. Something in the system is doing it. They trying to get to the bottom of it, but it's just. It's fubar.

Jessica Yellen (30:31)

It's just, like, what that means. Fucked up beyond all repair, by the way, folks.

Abby Wambach (30:36)

Yeah. And I will say I just want to give a shout out to. I don't know who this person is, but I've appreciated her very much in the press conferences because, honestly, everyone feels a little. You want to get the feeling, even if it's fake, when you're scared for your entire city and everything's burning down, that someone has a plan and you want a sense of authority and you want a sense of, like, truly, we all know that's all fake, but please give it to us. Give us the fake version of this. There's none of that. It's very. Everyone in the meeting seemed very disembodied and confused, except for this one woman named Lindsay something. Lindsay Hargraf. Yes. Anyway, I don't know who she is, but. Shout out to Lindsay. I'm only watching you. You're amazing.

Chase (31:20)

I mean, we do. This is one of the reasons, like, Rick Caruso, who is talking about a minute ago, is getting all this love, because he's just going on air and talking and talking about, like, here's what we need to do. Here's what should have happened, blah, blah, blah. It's very, you know, like, he's criticized the mayor and he's criticized, but he's projecting a sense of authority. And there's just this hunger for that. Whether people, like, actually like the politics or not, they're just drawn to some sort of clear message. That's why I feel like when New Orleans went through Katrina, they brought in. Do you Remember Russell Honore? He was this guy with this old draw and he had been in the army for years running the Army Corps of Engineers, which is all about getting stuff to the front lines of a war. And they brought him into New Orleans to get stuff to the front lines of hurricane response. And I think we need somebody who's done response before to just take leadership here.

Abby Wambach (32:14)

Yeah, there are makeshift shelters and there are people. It's a tricky time right now and I want to say that Jessica and I are being very intentional about not putting out ideas that are actually might end up hurting the city. So this is going to be a very long process. Months, years. And we will be telling people how and where to serve. But right now we're kind of in a careful, intentional holding pattern on that because some of the help ends up getting in the way of. Even when it's just donations right now, like food, clothes. We just have to be careful about where we're sending people's love. But it's the beauty of people showing up for each other and helping and opening up their homes and people in parking lots making breakfast burritos for hundreds and hundreds of people and people showing up with all of their clothes from their closets and just feeding each other, letting strangers in their homes. It's just there's a lot of. There's as much beauty as there is brutal happening right now in la. And I, for the first time, have started to love la. Oh, that makes me so happy. I mean, I was telling Chase on the phone the other night, like, I just sometimes, I guess it's when bad stuff happens that you start to feel like, oh, no, this is my place. And even though the wild stuff, like, I don't watch the news and so I'm watching local news for the first time for days and days. And I told Jessica, y'all, LA is hilarious. Every person who gets stopped on the street, these people are evacuating their houses. They are in the most traumatic moment of their life. And when that camera goes on, they are on message. They are eyes in the camera. They are camera ready. It's like a casting call. They are pitching their podcast.

Chase (33:59)

They're playing their business.

Abby Wambach (34:01)

Yeah, LA is ready for, for the camera, no matter how much trauma you're in. Secondly, I was listening to this woman who had just gone into a parking lot and started feeding people so beautiful I could not stop crying. She goes, and I just need everyone to know we have vegan options.

Chase (34:20)

And I thought gluten free shelters, I.

Abby Wambach (34:24)

Thought, we will be reduced to tears. But we will not be reduced to gluten. No, not in LA Doggy Prozac at our shelter.

Chase (34:32)

I know, it's amazing.

Abby Wambach (34:34)

And the firefighters, I mean that is a whole. They are day in, day out. Just. I mean if you've seen on the news, you can see what they're up against.

Chase (34:44)

I mean, shout out to. First of all, the local news I think has been exceptional. We are in an information black hole. I have been very disappointed in the lack of communication from city and county officials. But the news has so stepped up and it's just a reminder. They are on 24. 7 and local news isn't used to that. They have brought in reporters from across the country. They're Connecticut reporters here and Telemundo reporters reporting in English and then going into Spanish and it's just like you see what a public service the news is and then the firefighters. The thing we all forget. I've covered fires is it's really hot. Like it seems so obvious but when you're in a fire it's really hot and hard to breathe and you're wearing all this gear and your face is covered. And so in addition to like putting their lives on the line and working like around the clock, some of their own houses have burned down and they're out there and they haven't seen their families. Your body feels like it's failing for days on end and they've just done the impossible. Like I can't imagine how scary it is. We've also gotten so many resources from Canada, sent these water scooping planes in Mexico, sent firefighters in. They've come from Oregon and across the country, Texas even, you know, California and Texas have this rivalry, doesn't matter emergency. They're here for us. And it's just really beautiful when people who are in public service step up and we get to see the great work they're doing and it's just like everybody pulling for one another. There's so much misinformation about it too. It really breaks my heart. But just know if you're seeing that online, nobody is being blocked from getting in because of environmental regulations. That's a full up, full lie. There's just it, it is beautiful here. And ignore the crazy stuff you're seeing online about that.

Abby Wambach (36:40)

Yeah, agreed.

Jessica Yellen (36:42)

What is the plan? If you were. If it is only last I saw it said like one of the fires was 11 contained and the rest were like 8 and under or 00. What changes that? Like how is it going to go down? How and when Are these going to stop? Because I keep like looking at the map and being like, what's going to prevent this from just eating up the rest of Southern California?

Chase (37:11)

That is the right. And a scary question. I mean, there's. I'm just going to say the scary thing. So we have like a frame which is. People are saying, is this just gonna burn all of la, like LA proper, not where we are. You can reassure your kids if we're not in la.

Abby Wambach (37:24)

That's all Jessica's been doing, is reassuring my particular children.

Chase (37:27)

But they've held the line and that's just the fear. Right. What we have to watch for, we're recording this, should I say Sunday, so things will change. For the last 12 or so hours prior to recording this, we had a break in the winds and they were able to build fire lines, which are these. They create a. A separate fire. And then when they control that, it's usually can work to stop, hold the fire back. It doesn't go further than that line. And because of the break in the winds, they were able to defend multiple communities. And that's when they. I mean, you just saw how the excellence of this fight these fire teams. Also the break in the winds means you can put the planes in the air. So we've seen nothing but all. You see Chinook helicopters, you see firefighting planes, like everything. So that allowed them to really get a hold on it. And while it's. It's weird, they say it's not contained, but we are holding the line. And I'm not a fire expert, I need to learn. So there's something in between, quote, containment and actually being able to sort of manage where it's going. The winds have picked up and they're forecasted to pick up again today into tomorrow, and then two Tuesday into Wednesday and then blah, blah, blah. So what we need is for these Santa Anas to stop and for the universe to smile on us and bring us some rain.

Abby Wambach (38:49)

But to answer your question, that is the question. Like, everyone is scared about that. And to be relying on the wind is a terrifying, confusing place to be. And then there's further back questions too, bigger questions of, like, everyone's saying, how will we rebuild? But there's people saying, should we be rebuilding? The Earth is telling us this is not habitable. There's big questions, very big questions, existential, like land planet questions here, which is important to ask. It is also important, I know, for me personally, to not only live in our heads about this, but to like, witness the pain and the Fear and the loss of these families. There's the macro and there's the micro happening to thousands and thousands of children, parents, you know, families that have, and I was just watching a lot about Altadena and families who bought their houses 30 years ago, black families who moved to Altadena because of zoning, because of redlining, because that was the only place they were allowed to have homes and who built homes, you know, with the purpose of creating generational wealth for their families there and have raised generations there. And now likely, I mean, I'm not a real estate expert but I know enough to know how are they going to rebuy there? Like how they're going to be priced out, like everything's going to get scarce. And so it's utterly devastating what has happened.

Chase (40:30)

There's also. You still have to pay your mortgage.

Abby Wambach (40:33)

Yes.

Chase (40:34)

On your burned down house.

Abby Wambach (40:35)

Yes.

Jessica Yellen (40:35)

What.

Chase (40:36)

And taxes on your burned down house. Now they'll reassess the value, but so those homeowners still have to pay for the home while also paying for their new living situation and remediation.

Jessica Yellen (40:48)

So you are going to get foreclosed on your burned down home.

Chase (40:53)

Yes. And people have to know keep paying your mortgage if you can afford to or contact your bank. So that doesn't happen. I'm sorry to say.

Abby Wambach (41:00)

It's true. And when you're also, when you're seeing the news, a lot of these neighborhoods are very wealthy people. Far from all, every socioeconomic group has been hit by this fire. So let us, please, I mean look, we shouldn't be dismissive of rich people either, but let's not be dismissive in general. Like this is all kinds of people.

Chase (41:22)

There's also beach vibe in the Palisades where yeah, there's like beautiful new homes, but there's like surfer dudes and folks who've lived there also for 30, 40 years and they can't afford to rebuild. I, I have a friend who had to end up as a renter and is like she has a GoFundMe now, you know, and she looks like the profile of somebody who wouldn't need that. So you don't know people's situation. And this really, it's just. And I'll say I also have covered so many kinds of disasters, floods and hurricanes and whatever. There's something about a fire that's so unusual because it's got like, there's this place that stood for comfort and security and your personal history is just ash. It's like in a flood you can see what happened to Your. You can see the devastation, but here, it's a cognitive challenge. It's just gone.

Abby Wambach (42:16)

Yeah.

Jessica Yellen (42:17)

It's like there is no body. It's like you're mourning the thing that doesn't exist anymore.

Abby Wambach (42:21)

Exactly. Ambiguous loss from all people. This is an unlikely source. But I thought John Mayer put out a beautiful thing. We were like. Abby's like, listen to what John Mayer said. I'm like, what? This is a weird time. Words I never thought I'd hear.

Jessica Yellen (42:36)

Listen to what John Mayer said.

Abby Wambach (42:38)

Yeah, but, I mean, no offense, John Mayer, but, you know, we've heard some things. Okay. Anyway, he wrote this beautiful thing about how everyone's saying it's just things. It's just things. But he was saying it's the loss of life that's devastating us, but it's also the proof of life. Yeah. The eyeglasses, the greeting. Like, all the things that you keep to prove that people you loved existed, and it's just gone. So, you know, it's not just things. It's hearts and memories and love and pasts just disintegrated.

Jessica Yellen (43:15)

It's your tethering to the world.

Abby Wambach (43:17)

Yeah.

Jessica Yellen (43:18)

Like, I was trying to think about, oh, my dear God, if my house burned down and everything that I've built and everything that I've loved and every little treasure and trinket and memory. That is one catastrophic, unimaginable thing. And then I was trying to think of that, plus my neighbors houses, my community center, my kids school, my church, my place, we play basketball. My place, where we go on the swings. Like, there isn't even Your entire attachment to the earth is gone. And there's not a like, oh, I can rebuild my house. Even if you're lucky enough to. Which we should talk about the myth of the insurance payment that's coming to you. It's like, what am I even rebuilding in? I'm not rebuilding in my community. My community is gone.

Abby Wambach (44:12)

I know.

Jessica Yellen (44:13)

Who knows who's gonna come back?

Abby Wambach (44:15)

Yeah. And it's also like, the idea of usually when the way community works is everyone's not in crisis at the same time. So your neighbor loses something, you has a loss, you all come together, and then you take turns. But when the entire community is decimated, that is a whole different paradigm.

Chase (44:35)

I will say on a hopeful note, I spoke to somebody who is in this exact situation, and every neighbor of hers has lost their house and her communities burned down. Schools, church, everything she said. And they're all on a WhatsApp group, and they're all in Touch all day and night. Who needs a thing? I have a thing. Where are you? And they've. Some are out of state, some are out of the region. And they've stayed connected as a community. And so I'm hearing all sorts of stories like that. We're seeing wildlife. I didn't even processes in LA running into the city. And people are finding ways to take them to shelters and get them back. And so there's into their habitats or get them to safety. There's this video going around of all these wild goats that are.

Abby Wambach (45:17)

Oh, yeah, I've seen the goats.

Chase (45:18)

So all these things we've talked about how we need to reconnect with one another. We need to reconnect with the land. You see small ways where people are doing that in this moment. And so I think there's this counter energy that's also happening where people are saying, I'm going to show up for you.

Abby Wambach (45:36)

Y.

Chase (45:36)

We're going to get through this. But we are still in the shock phase. Like, there's a numbing quality. You said people are dissociated in the pressers.

Abby Wambach (45:43)

That's how it feels. Everyone's dissociated. Like they're reading things. They're. They're not. Yes, it feels. Terror has dissociated even the leaders.

Chase (45:52)

I feel like it's worth saying, like when you're in here watching local news, as we've been doing, and we see these images, you see this fire marching across these mountains in. In like it feels. It looks biblical to me. I don't know what else to say.

Jessica Yellen (46:06)

And it's like football fields per second, just like.

Chase (46:10)

And it's this orange fire moving in across the mountains that you've, like, watched and the, you know, that you live in, your kids have played soccer there, you've gone for hikes. And they're like, we don't know if it's going to turn left into the Brentwood area. We don't know if it's going to go up into San Fernando and everybody. And so it's this constant re trauma and you're riveted to watch it. And then you're like, is it gonna be me? Is it gonna be my best friend? Is it gonna be. I don't know how else to like, convey the sense of like, terror and panic and anxiety. People are living with. A friend of mine said to me, because we keep checking in, like, how you doing? How you doing? She's like, just reach out if things get weird. And I'm like, could they get weirder.

Abby Wambach (46:50)

I think we're past that. I feel like things are weird. Things are weird.

Jessica Yellen (47:04)

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Abby Wambach (49:21)

I was thinking about my friend Adrienne Maree Brown who does beautiful social justice work and her lens is very environmental and like Octavia Butler vibes and she like a year ago was talking about climate change and all that's coming and preparedness for that and she was talking to me about like the importance of building scrappy real we've got each other community and the importance of always being ready. Like ready with your bag, ready with your go stuff that. That those things will become essential as the climate changes and these things continue to happen. And I do remember, I trust everything Adrian says, but even I at the moment was like, okay, all right.

Jessica Yellen (50:10)

You mean, like, metaphorically?

Abby Wambach (50:11)

Yeah. Like, I'm making my heart my bag in my heart. Right, right. I am telling you that I understand if you're not living in LA or you haven't, but that this might sound alarmist. I am now experiencing it. People have nowhere to go. People only have somewhere to go if they have family, community, friends. People who are like, come to my house now.

Jessica Yellen (50:37)

Yeah.

Abby Wambach (50:37)

Jessica yesterday had to go to her house. There was a break in winds, so she drove back to her home to get out what she could get out. And we were standing in the kitchen before she left, just looking at each other like, what do you get? What do you leave? Isn't this something we should know intuitively? Like, why are we so confused? What memories do you take? Can you talk to us a little bit about what that experience was? Like going back to your house and how you made decisions about what to take?

Chase (51:09)

Yeah. It's weird. You go into this, like, mindset where you're kind of. You feel like your mind's not fully connected. It wasn't exactly dissociated. It was like, I'm having a hard time focusing feeling. And there were some things I just knew. It's kind of amazing in that moment when you're like, why do I have all this stuff? I don't care about that. I don't care about that. I don't care about, what is all this stuff feeling. I should just. If I survive, I'm gonna dump all this stuff. And then you're like, these things. I know I want objects. Or, my dad died 20 plus years ago, and I was like, handwriting from him. And. But then there are things where you're like, I couldn't decide. And, you know, something my dad gave me, but it's not that special to me. Or clothing. Like, what clothing? I don't remember what clothing I need. And then especially documents. And valuable. Like they say, take your important documents. I'm like, what are my important documents?

Jessica Yellen (52:02)

Yes.

Chase (52:03)

Everything's digital, right? No. Yes. What do I need? Like, you know, and then I'm like, whatever I don't get is going to be the thing I needed. I told you. I have these two lamps that have been by my bed that I think of as my sentries that protect me. And I'm like, I can't take them. There's no room in the car. And that was really like, am I unprotected if I leave them? And then I had this very one moment where I was like, okay, I decided. I said in advance, I'm going to pack everything. I'm going to do it in stages, one room at a time, only the things that are essential. And when I'm done with that room, I'm not going back. And I'm only going to pack. And I'm not going to move anything till it's packed. So I know how to do things. And so I was like, everything's packed, and now I'm going to take it to the car. And then I couldn't find my keys.

Abby Wambach (52:44)

Yeah.

Chase (52:45)

And I was like, where's my key? And I searched and I. You know that thing where you've looked everywhere four times and you're like, it's in a bag somewhere. I'm gonna have to go through every bag. Oh, my God. What if a fire is coming? I'm not getting alerts. I can't. The tv. What? And I started freaking out, and I really got a panic. And that was when I, like, kind of lost it for a minute. Fortunately, I was, you know, on CNN for years. I have a producer from CNN I worked with who was like, my human chill pill. And I called her and I was like, I lost my keys. The bags are packed. I don't know where they are. And she's like, dude, there's no fire threat. It could take you hours. You're fine. Let's sit on couch and breathe. And I want you to start looking really slowly. Like, go much like yoga breaths. Let's go much more slowly than you need to. And within five minutes, I found them. They were under a jacket on my bed.

Abby Wambach (53:35)

Oh, bless her.

Chase (53:37)

Carrie's the best.

Abby Wambach (53:38)

Oh, Carrie. Can Carrie do the press conferences, by the way?

Chase (53:44)

Carrie does communications now, and she keeps saying, I just want somebody to get to Karen Bass. What exactly what she needs to do. Carrie does want to do the press conferences.

Abby Wambach (53:54)

Maybe we could have our own and just have Carrie do them. Oh, my God. Okay, so Jessica. And also, we are recording this on Sunday, and you guys are getting this on Tuesday. So we're just going to say we're expecting the winds to change on Monday. Things might be very different by the time that you get this, but right now. How would you describe where we are right now?

Chase (54:19)

It feels like we've had a reprieve, and we don't know if it's the quiet before another big firestorm. Now I want to acknowledge that it's not a reprieve for thousands of people who are still in fire zones. And the Eaton Palisades fire burning, and people have lost so much. Whether the rest of the city or where it's going to burn is on hold right now. But I know people who have been warned that they're no longer able to access their homes in evacuation zones. Before police were escorting them in to get prescriptions they may have left or vitals, and they have. Police have said no more. It's not safe. And so they're anticipating, with these winds coming back, another increased risk. So we're kind of at the edge of our seats to see which way this thing's gonna go next.

Abby Wambach (55:11)

Yes. Okay. We have been talking a lot, Jessica and I. First of all, I wanna let the pod squad know that we will let you know as reliable information comes in about where to give. But we do have two ideas right now. Do you want to tell them what your idea is?

Chase (55:30)

Sure. There's the LA Fire foundation, which gets necessary equipment and resources to the fire department outside the city budget, which is an issue we didn't discuss. But there were cuts to the fire department budget. That's become also big scandal and controversy here. They need stuff, and that helps them get them the stuff.

Abby Wambach (55:49)

And the vibe here is this is not Jessica condoned. I'm just gonna say what I have been feeling and seeing on people's faces is it feels like there's a rift between Karen Bass and the chief of fire. The chief of the fire department. The fire chief. Yeah. That the fire chief actually said in a interview a couple days ago that there has been a failure of leadership from Bass. And then there was, like, a rift. And then there was, like, another press conference right afterwards where it felt like they were trying to present a united front, but they both looked, like, unpleased.

Chase (56:32)

Yeah.

Jessica Yellen (56:33)

United under duress.

Abby Wambach (56:34)

Yeah. Like I kept saying to Abby, do you think one of them's gonna blink twice? Like, it feels like they're not under their own free will in this conversation. So something's going on.

Chase (56:44)

And some firefighters have said that they were asked to, like, prior to the fire, clear brush in their free time because there's no money for overtime. Like, stuff like that is getting around, and it's pretty. Yeah. Backed up. So it's. Yeah. Problem.

Abby Wambach (56:58)

The autopsy will be interesting to see, like, what has happened and why.

Chase (57:04)

There's also this creepy reality where a bunch of wealthy people are hiring their own private firefighting force. And. Yeah, that's going to be a huge thing.

Abby Wambach (57:14)

What do you think about that?

Chase (57:16)

It's just. It's weird. It's like, why aren't we paying that into the city budget to have everybody have the firefighting force? Like, it's just, we need to rethink how these people are buying into these territories that are like, you know, climate change is saying, maybe we should be rethinking how we're where we're living and how we're building. And instead of doing that, you fight. Hire your own firefighting force to protect your. Your property, but not the neighbors. Like, it's. That's fucked up.

Abby Wambach (57:46)

Yeah. Yeah, it really is. Oh, God. It's like. Well, it is. It's. It's what you see in dystopian novels. It's like, suddenly when the infrastructure feels like it's breaking down, instead of all pitching in together, the people with the resources just protect themselves and themselves and themselves until it's just them left.

Chase (58:05)

It's upsetting. We also do hear stories of people who stayed to fight the fire on their own house and protected their neighbors. And the bright side, there, the death toll has been unbelievably low so far.

Jessica Yellen (58:17)

Shockingly.

Chase (58:18)

I mean, maybe we're going to see that rise as they go in, but that is really underplayed. Only 16 people so far. Like, each of those is a life. But you'd imagine in conflagration like this, it would be higher.

Jessica Yellen (58:31)

Yeah, you would think it would be hundreds at this point. Like, it's wild. That whole, like, private firefighter thing reminds me of that Native American proverb that only when the last tree has been cut down and the last fish has been caught and the last stream poisoned, will we realize we cannot eat money.

Abby Wambach (58:47)

Yeah.

Jessica Yellen (58:48)

It's like the idea we can continue to buy our own protection. Buy our own protection, Buy our own protection until it's like, the whole moral of this is that we can't buy our own protection. Like, we need to fix this.

Abby Wambach (59:00)

I know.

Chase (59:01)

That's one of the most frustrating things to me is for the people who are upset about this and they're blaming only city leadership without understanding. Like, this is a climate crisis, too, and we have to rethink our. Our systems, and we need to exercise imagination and creativity about how we use water, where our relationship to the land, et cetera.

Abby Wambach (59:25)

Yeah.

Chase (59:26)

It's not. You know, even if the mayor had been here the whole time and all the alerts were working, that wasn't going to stop this from being devastating.

Abby Wambach (59:34)

Yeah. And it really does seem Like a call of like, will we step up together or not? Like, it feels like the human race would. The whole project could explode and burn down, literally, while we're just pointing at each other. Like, that is the vibe. I've been confused a lot over the last five days in terms of responding to how other people are responding. And I feel and understand the anger. Absolutely. I don't even. I feel angry at people who aren't angry. So I get that. But there is a vibe of just immediate nastiness, blame, or like almost. It feels like profiteering, like taking a moment and making your agenda. There's an ugliness that doesn't feel like righteous fury. It doesn't feel like righteous rage. It feels like uncreative, opportunistic. Yes, exactly. Whereas it really. I think the question is, this is an unprecedented moment of what are we going to do? And not working together isn't working. So, like, we can either win or we can survive. I want to end by talking about something that Jessica and I have been. Well, first of all, I want to tell you that if Jessica gave you a resource to give to the firefighters. I also have been following my dear friend who I trust with my life, Brittany Packnett Cunningham. And she has on her feeds been putting out a beautiful, well curated collection of GoFundMes from families from Altadena, which is that historically black neighborhood that we were discussing earlier. If that is interesting to you, go check out Brittany's feed. Her information can be trusted. And I love the idea of getting funds directly to these families because the red tape after this situation with insurance and it is going to be a second wave of nightmare for all of these people. So do check that out too, if that's interesting to you. And Jessica and I have been spending hours and hours, not only just these last five days, but or two days or 30 days, I don't know.

Chase (61:53)

Yeah, baby. Unclear, Unclear.

Abby Wambach (61:57)

But before that, you know, Jessica's. I don't. It's not job with you. It feels and looks like it's just like a calling. It's a. How do you. How do you describe what you do with the news?

Chase (62:10)

Like my work.

Abby Wambach (62:11)

Yeah.

Chase (62:12)

I try to make it accessible to people who are either overwhelmed or panicked or don't have the time and curate what matters, put it in context and make it relatable to you. I think the news is, as I said, a public service. And it's essential to understand our world, especially as we're all. I mean, this proves it. We're all impacted by our Environments, what's outside our door? We have to be informed.

Abby Wambach (62:37)

Yeah.

Chase (62:37)

And so how do we do that in a way that's less traumatizing than what legacy media has been doing? That doesn't give you a panic attack every time, you know, they compete for your anxiety?

Abby Wambach (62:47)

Yes.

Chase (62:47)

They focus on the negative. They build up the conflict. And as we've been doing right here, we're not avoiding the negative stuff. We are very clear about what's difficult. But there's also empathy. There's also the human beautiful stories, and there's the bigger idea that we're within this climate idea. What is that? How do you break it down? How do you make that understandable? Those are all part of what the news should be doing. And I often think legacy news fails at that. And so I'm trying to kind of innovate into that. How do we talk about the difficult stuff in ways that don't give you panic? How do we talk about the big ideas in ways that are relatable to you so you can act within them.

Abby Wambach (63:25)

Yeah.

Chase (63:26)

And make decisions in your life?

Abby Wambach (63:29)

Yeah. And I guess for me, it feels like sometimes people have these callings that they are loyal to for years and years, and then they hone their craft. And even when people are telling them no, and then there comes a moment where it is very clear why they've been preparing, why they've been relentless. Like, there becomes a moment where it all makes sense and all the. I'm going to probably start crying, but where I feel like you. Fuck. I miss my black surprise so much. I love you. Okay, so what I'm trying to say is that I have watched you for so long, be so true to your calling, even when it would have been easier for you to stop, like, because people have told you no, and you have still stayed true to the idea that no. It is very important that people get the news. And it doesn't have to be done the way it's being done. It doesn't have to be an opportunity to sell shit. It doesn't have to be just an opportunity to get people fearful enough to become addicted and keep their attention. That there is a beauty to it, and you've stayed true to it. And now it feels like, Jessica, you know, right after this last election, I don't think it's, like, admirable or valorous. Like, not something I like to talk about a lot, but I was like, fuck it, I'm out truly to the news, to following things. I decided that for my own one wild and precious Life that I could not give my nervous system over to this system anymore, every day. And so I just stopped because there is no safe place. And look, I felt I have tried to find it. I have tried to arrange things that maybe if I just expose myself to this, to this. I have started to feel like I used to in my drinking days, where I was like, okay, I'll just try beer after five. Okay, I'll just have clear liquids. Okay, I'll just, you know, like. So I do think that a lot of us did that after the election. And I also think that there's this coming together of what you do and exactly what is needed in this moment for so many of us, which is we don't want to be checked out. We do want to know what's going on with our world. We know we have to because of what we've talked about today, because we have families that we need to prepare for this world, because being completely clueless is a privilege that we shouldn't take. But we need someone that we can trust that is not using us for their own means. And so here's what we're wondering. Pod Squad. This is what Jessica and I have been talking about the last 48 hours. And then I talked to Sister about it yesterday, and we just all got excited about the possibility. Like, what if we just trust Jessica with this? Oh, my God. Like, what if we don't, like, sorry, but no to the cable. Like, no to whatever is it. Do we call it cable anymore? What is the things that we turn on on our tv.

Jessica Yellen (66:52)

Well, the. The chaos rage circus. Like, the people that you feel rage and chaos. Because that is the point. Because the more you feel like that, the more you feel like the answer to that is there. That whole vibe.

Abby Wambach (67:05)

Yeah. So we were like, what if we just have. We beg Jessica to come to us on the we can do hard things feed and give us the news that we need. Not in a ragey, nervous system, hijacking way, but in a way that makes us feel connected to others and that keeps us informed on this planet that we live in in a new, fresh way. And so we want to know if you want that Pod Squad, if that. Because this isn't easy. Look, it sounds like we're just getting on and talking, but it actually is a lot of fricking work doing this podcast. So we only want to do it if you want it, right?

Chase (67:47)

Yes. Yes. I'm so honored and flattered. That is the kindest. I can't. I'm sort of out of Body as you're saying this, thank you for your level of trust. I feel like deeply gratified, like I don't know what the right words are.

Abby Wambach (68:01)

Well, I've seen it up close. It's not something. I've experienced it with you as a friend and watched how much you care and how devoted you are and how it's been in your mind and body for years and years. Like people are just starting to talk about this now. Like the news exodus and now everybody and their mother has like this sort of vibe. But you were the first one to do it. And like, listen to me, Pod Squad. I have watched so many people kind of take your idea and switch it up, but you are the original and you are the one that should be pioneering this because you have been for so long.

Jessica Yellen (68:40)

I get the tendency to be like, fuck it, it doesn't matter anyway, we tried, blah, blah, blah. I'm not gonna pay attention to that. But there really is a civic responsibility. You have responsibility to yourself as a person in this country and with people you care about in this country to pay attention to what you need to pay attention to because that's your only chance to influence and be aware. And you also have a responsibility to yourself and to your mental health to take care of that first responsibility in a way that is not taking years off your life.

Abby Wambach (69:19)

That's right.

Jessica Yellen (69:19)

So this model that you're suggesting here, Glennon, is a very sane, responsible, self respecting way to deal with that kind of dual responsibility. And I, I love it.

Abby Wambach (69:37)

Yeah, so we'll see, you guys, let us know. Write to us or I don't know, how should they tell us? I really don't know how we should do this. This is all there.

Jessica Yellen (69:46)

Tell us on social or email or call in. Is it. Do you have an appetite for this? Is it, Is this something that you would like? I mean, we're talking like, what? Just what do I need to know this week? What actually happened? Because everyone's screaming at me and I don't actually know what happened and my Aunt Betty keeps posting about it and I know that's not what happened. 7472-005307-77200-5307 or WCD H T. That's the words where we can do our things. Podmail.com all right.

Chase (70:21)

I would love it.

Abby Wambach (70:22)

Me too. So, yeah, I feel like I could because I do feel, yes, that we have a responsibility. But people take that responsibility and then they switch it into their own. Because truly the news is only Rage baity. Because they're selling shit. Like, it's all just another. It's just about selling stuff. So it's like the need for faith. Like, we want faith, but then we go to these places and then they take it and then they use it to make money or whatever. So it's the same old same old. And I think it would be cool to do it in a new, fresh way so we can get what we need and deserve and love in a way that is not opportunistic and taking advantage of us and ruining our lives.

Chase (71:04)

We also cover news that doesn't suck, which is news that inspires curiosity, creativity, hope, optimism. Not fake happy stuff, but like scientific breakthroughs, medical breakthroughs, reminders that there's progress in our world still. Good things. So I can promise some of that.

Abby Wambach (71:22)

That's part of survival right now. Like, we cannot become shells of ourselves. We cannot allow it. Like, we need all of the creativity and energy and love and life. We need it to make community, to solve problems. We don't get to give it all away every day by doing the same old things, by turning on the same shows, by giving our attention to the same old people. We have to be more intentional than that. Protect ourselves and each other. So anyway, let us know and we're gonna go. And we love you so much. We're gonna go get Bruno and Honey. And Abby's upstairs having peace talks between them, petting each of them on her separate side.

Jessica Yellen (72:04)

It's so cute.

Chase (72:05)

She's also a dog whisperer.

Abby Wambach (72:07)

She is a dog whisperer.

Chase (72:08)

I did not know that. That was very impressive.

Abby Wambach (72:09)

She's an everything whisperer, that one.

Chase (72:11)

I can see that.

Abby Wambach (72:12)

Oh, God. Okay. We love you, POD Squad. Please take care of each other. We can do hard things.

Chase (72:19)

Yeah.

Jessica Yellen (72:20)

Bye.

Abby Wambach (72:26)

If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the POD helps you because you'll never miss an episode. And it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand. Corner, corner. Or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner and Bill Schultz.