Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley

Summary

Summary of "We Can Do Hard Things" Podcast Episode: "Let Our Sundance-Winning Film Remind You What Love Is with Megan Falley"

Release Date: February 6, 2025

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Introduction to the Episode

In this heartfelt episode of We Can Do Hard Things, hosts Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle welcome their dear friend and poet Megan Fowle. The episode centers around the Sundance Film Festival premiere of the documentary "Come See Me in the Good Light," which poignantly captures the lives of Megan and her partner, Andrea Gibson, during Andrea’s battle with incurable cancer.

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The Origin Story of the Documentary

Amanda Doyle initiates the conversation by describing the deep personal connections that led to the creation of the documentary. She recounts the moment when a friend's doctor recommended Andrea’s poetry as a source of healing during a dark period of her own anorexia treatment ([07:09]). This recommendation sparked Amanda and Abby’s journey into Andrea and Megan’s lives, ultimately leading to the collaborative creation of the film.

Notable Quote:

Amanda Doyle: "It was incredibly amazing... a gift in this time of a very long shadow over a lot of beauty, to be able to be a small part of putting a light on the beauty just felt very like a gift." ([46:24])

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Filming and Production Insights

Megan Fowle delves into the intimate process of filming, emphasizing the authenticity and vulnerability captured throughout the documentary. She describes the initial awkwardness ([26:50]) and how the filmmakers, Ryan White and Jessica Hargrave, seamlessly integrated into their lives, creating a sense of family and community. Megan highlights the collaborative spirit, noting how the presence of the film crew became a source of support rather than intrusion.

Notable Quote:

Megan Fowle: "There's something about approaching poets who are more predisposed to vulnerability that made us good subjects in this way." ([28:34])

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Impact of the Documentary

The documentary received an overwhelmingly positive reception at the 2025 Sundance Film Festival, earning the Festival Favorite Award. The hosts and Megan express profound gratitude and humility over this achievement, underscoring the film's universal appeal and its powerful message of love and resilience.

Notable Quote:

Amanda Doyle: "What we have to tell you is the most beautiful creative story, one of the most beautiful creative stories we have ever been a part of..." ([03:03])

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Reflections on Love and Life

Throughout the episode, the conversation delves deep into themes of love, vulnerability, and living authentically. Megan shares her journey of self-discovery and body image, particularly how Andrea’s illness illuminated her own struggles and reinforced the importance of embracing one’s body and present moment.

Notable Quote:

Megan Fowle: "I don't want to say that small, because it's not. Because it's lifelong... but it made the discrepancy of not that this thing is small, but that this thing should be small." ([40:13])

Abby Wambach echoes these sentiments, emphasizing the significance of living fully in the present and loving oneself as is, without waiting for external validation or achieving certain milestones.

Notable Quote:

Abby Wambach: "If I'm suspending my ability to live to my fullest until X... then I'm actually not living." ([42:53])

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Achievements and Sundance Win

The hosts celebrate the documentary’s success at Sundance, reflecting on the unexpected yet joyous reception. They discuss the film’s ability to resonate universally, transcending specific communities and highlighting shared human experiences.

Notable Quote:

Megan Fowle: "When you watch it, you see us get hard news and then laughing in bed. It felt like, oh, my God, I get to, people get to understand now." ([34:37])

Amanda shares a moving anecdote about a straight ally at the Sundance premiere, who passionately advocated for the film’s widespread distribution, underscoring its profound emotional impact on diverse audiences.

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Future Projects and Closing Thoughts

As the episode winds down, Megan discusses her ongoing work on a memoir that intertwines her personal journey with Andrea’s illness. The hosts express their commitment to promoting the documentary, urging listeners to support its distribution to reach broader audiences.

Notable Quote:

Megan Fowle: "Our friend Heather is in the film... their presence helped us realize the importance of roping in more community to it." ([32:10])

Glennon Doyle passionately advocates for the film’s inclusion in more theaters and streaming platforms, highlighting its essential message of love and human connection.

Notable Quote:

Glennon Doyle: "This is a movie people need to see right now. And I'm not just saying that because we're part of it." ([56:58])

The episode concludes with a collective plea for listeners to support the documentary, empowering them to help spread its message of love, resilience, and the beauty of authentic living.

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Conclusion

This episode of We Can Do Hard Things beautifully encapsulates the essence of navigating life’s challenges with grace and love. Through Megan Fowle’s compelling narrative and the hosts’ empathetic dialogue, listeners are invited to reflect on their own journeys, embracing vulnerability and the transformative power of genuine connections.

Transcript

[Glennon Doyle]

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[Abby Wambach]

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[Amanda Doyle]

Megan Fowle is a nationally ranked slam poet and the author of three full length collections of poetry. Most recently her book Drive Here and Devastate Me. Since transitioning to writing prose, excerpts from her memoir in progress have won several first and second place national prizes. She runs an online writing workshop called Poems that Don't Suck, which has been heralded as a degree's worth of education in five short weeks. Andrea Gibson is one of the most celebrated and influential spoken word artists of our time. Best known for their live performances, Andrea has changed the landscape of what it means to attend a poetry show. Andrea's poems center around LGBTQ issues, spirituality, feminism, mental health and social justice. Andrea is the author of seven books, most recently you Better Be Lightning. Megan Fowley and Andrea Gibson are the subjects of the most beautiful doc we have seen, which hopefully you will see soon called Come See Me in the Good Light, which just won the festival favorite award at the 2025 Sundance Film Festival that we were all at. Welcome, Meg. Fion.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah buddy.

[Megan Fowle]

Hi. Hi Amanda, how are you?

[Abby Wambach]

Oh, it's so nice to see your beautiful face. Megan.

[Megan Fowle]

It's so good to see you. All of you.

[Amanda Doyle]

Okay, Pod Squad, how do we describe what's happening right now? Okay, today's episode is going to be a conversation between us and our dearest love, Meg Fowley, who you might know from so many previous episodes. We'll punch them in.

[Megan Fowle]

I just really like to be here. I live here now.

[Amanda Doyle]

Oh God, that's my dream. So what we have to tell you, Pod Squad is I think the most beautiful creative story, one of the most beautiful creative stories we have ever been a part of as a team, which is a story of friendship and also a Beautiful piece of art that was made called Come See Me in the Good Light, which is a documentary about Andrea Gibson and Megan Fowley. And I would say. No, no, you say what it is.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah, Meg.

[Amanda Doyle]

And then we're gonna tell you Pod Squad. How this magical situation came into the world and the story of how we all ended up in a six bedroom house in Park City at Sundance full of lesbians. Plus Sara Bareilles, because Sara Bareilles is always an honorary lesbian. I don't know how she's pulled this off, but she is.

[Glennon Doyle]

I mean, she wrote the gay anthem right years ago.

[Amanda Doyle]

Days of what we will tell you was a snuggle down. And then premieres of this documentary and how it has been received in the world, which has been a miraculous thing. So, Megan, how are you describing or thinking about Come see me in the good light in your miraculous octopoidal brain?

[Megan Fowle]

So Come See Me in the Good Light is a documentary and it focuses on the last year of Andrea, my partner's, cancer journey. And what has been incredible is that that sounds like just a pretty sad logline for sure. But when you watch the movie, Tig has compared it to a Will Ferrell movie because there is so, so much laughter. And of course there's tears, of course there's hardship. It follows us through doctor's appointments and scans and good news and bad news and radiation. But also it's followed us through our everyday life, which includes a lot of tiny dogs, a lot of working together as artists, and a lot of love and a lot of troubles with our mailbox and just the everyday parts of life. And I do think that it's sort of impossible to write the synopsis of it. You know, a poet with incurable cancer, that it just doesn't sound like what it is. We've noticed that a surprising community that's really responding. It seems to be the bros Frat brother feeling people. And I was trying to figure out why. And I think it has a really sort of YOLO message. And I think frat boys tend to gravitate in this direction. And rather than get it from a free solo or a surfing movie or something, they're seeing it in two queer poets lives in their everyday.

[Glennon Doyle]

Wow. Okay, Glennon, you have to tell the kind of the. The origin story of like, how this kind of happened. Like what? From your perspective. Because I think I want to give the listener like a kind of a timeline of like, when this. And I know you're not great with numbers, so I'll help right and also.

[Abby Wambach]

Because it feels like a love. This story, for me, is a love story. The movie is a love story, and it has all of the beautiful and brutality of all of it. And then the making of the project feels like it's like a parallel love story at the same time. You know? That's why I think it's so pure and beautiful, because it was made just by people who love y'all and love each other. So tell that love story too, Glennon.

[Amanda Doyle]

Okay. I'm gonna tell it from how it happened from my perspective, and then I want to hear from Meg's perspective how it intersected differently. Also, I would say before I start this, that if Tic had called us and said, this story needs to be made about Andrea and Meg and Andrea's love of life and Meg's love of life and Andrea and Meg's love of each other and there were no cancer involved, I would have said, that is a hell, yes. Like, it's not the cancer.

[Glennon Doyle]

That's right.

[Abby Wambach]

Right.

[Amanda Doyle]

It's the way that you two live individually and together. That is the YOLO message. And I'm not saying that like, I'm serious. I would have been like, yep, the whole world just needs to see a year of those two, and then that will fix the world. Okay, here's what happened in a nutshell. This is a long time ago. I am in my hellacious part of my last round of anorexia treatment. I am at a moment with the best doctors on the planet where I'm looking at one saying, I can't do this anymore. Nobody. All I can say to you is, I don't think it's gonna work. There's no. I kept saying I was crying on the phone, the zoom with her. And I kept saying, nothing is true enough.

[Glennon Doyle]

This is two years ago. This part of the story.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yeah. And I don't know what that meant. Okay. But it felt like a serious proclamation at the moment. Like, I met nobody in therapy. Nobody. Nobody's being true enough. So I can't recover. Okay. My long suffering doctor looks at me and says the following. The only thing I can think of for you right now is Andrea Gibson's poetry. I'm like, who's Andrea Gibson? I laid in the fetal position in bed that night with Abby and said, the best doctor on the planet just told me that the only treatment she has left for me is poetry. Like, I am so fucked. That was my first thing. Next day, I order all Andrea's books. Abby and I leave for a vacation. I start Reading Andrea's poetry. And I, during our breakfasts, while we're.

[Glennon Doyle]

At, like, a romantic getaway, Glennon's nose is just in a book.

[Amanda Doyle]

I'm like, something about the body thing. Something about the life in it. Something about it. I just am like, oh, okay, this is true enough. Then I find, through Andrea's books, Megan. Then I order Megan's work. Then I. I'm like, oh, my God, I can't do anything except ingest these two human beings. Okay, I completely ignore my marriage. One day, Abby takes a picture of me at breakfast. We're by ourselves at a table of two at a restaurant, and I'm just reading your books and Abby's by herself.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah, I've had enough.

[Amanda Doyle]

I mean, so Abby takes a picture. DMs it to Andrea, right? That day, we end up in a conversation where Andrea says that they have to figure out how to tell the community that they had just found out that the cancer was incurable. Because, of course, Andrea's thinking, how are they going to handle this? How are my people going to handle this? I'm worried about them. The three of us end up on an episode of We Can Do Hard Things where Andrea is discussing their incurable diagnosis on the podcast. We all somehow become friends. That moment, I guess, is when we become friends. One night, Abby and I are in bed at 7:30pm this is like many months later. Tig calls us. Tig is our dear friend and Andrea and Meg's dear friend. Tig calls us and says, I think that there needs to be a documentary about Megan. Andrea and I think you guys should be involved. So tell me if you want to meet sometime. So we send Tig a link immediately to get on Zoom from bed. Tig says, pitches the idea. And we say very responsibly because we've heard this is what grownups do. We say, we hear you. We would like to think this over and we'll get back to you. We hang up the Zoom link, and 30 seconds later, we text Hank and said, we've thought it through. We've consulted our bodies and brains. We believe it's a good idea. We're all in throughout. Just fast forward and then I'm going to turn it over to you, Meg. During this, Tig contacts these two people from Tripod Media, Ryan White and Jessica Hargrave, who are unfreaking believable artists and directors and producers. They are all in. There is a moment where, and you'll see it in the doc, where Andrea is doing a performance, a Show Chase and Abby and I are sitting there, and I get a text from Sara Bareilles, and she's like, turn around. And I'm like, what? Because we're in this theater.

[Glennon Doyle]

Andrea was performing a live show.

[Amanda Doyle]

Right?

[Glennon Doyle]

Right.

[Amanda Doyle]

And Sarah. Sarah has flown to the show to secretly be there because she's so obsessed with Andrea and Mike. Okay. I go into the back room with Andrea, and there's a huge set of flowers. Set of flowers from Brandi and Cath. Because Cath and Brandi are so obsessed with Andrea and Meg that they have sent.

[Glennon Doyle]

So Brandi Carlisle and Catherine Carlisle.

[Amanda Doyle]

I'm like, oh, my God. It's just like this moment. So then we pull Sarah and Brandi into executive producing the doc. So then the doc becomes. Andrew and Meg are the people who. It's about subjects. Subjects. Tig Notaro and Steph Willen and Ryan and Jessica are making it. The executive producers are me and Abby, Brandi and Cath.

[Glennon Doyle]

Sara Bareilles.

[Amanda Doyle]

Sara Bareilles. Just this. And then we become this little family. And then it's the most beautiful thing that's ever happened. And then it gets into Sundance, and then we all have a house that we call the Snuggle down, where all of us just stay in this house for all the premieres. Okay, Meg, now you go.

[Megan Fowle]

I mean, I think you summed it up. No, from our perspective, our friend Steph Willen approached us about wanting to do a documentary. And Steph. We're so close to Steph. And apparently she had withheld approaching us for a year. She'd had this idea for a very long time and didn't know how we would respond. I have no idea why she thought. She didn't know if we'd be upset or offended or just not want that kind of attention. But her partner convinced her. She was like, no, just ask. It's a good idea. And she brought it to our attention. And like you all, I think it took about 30 seconds for us to think, do we want to do this? Do we want to invite cameras into our homes, into doctor's offices with us, into all of these ups and downs of moments that we were experiencing mostly alone? And it was such a clear yes. So quickly. I think for a few reasons. I think we'd already done two years of cancer treatment just as us, so that so far hadn't been working. I mean, it worked for us emotionally, but why not add another element? And the other thing was that it was so important to us during that time. There's this quote, don't waste the suffering. We wanted to not waste the suffering. We wanted to be making a gift or a lesson or a learning of this time for ourselves and the introduction of the camera and knowing that we would be in an active process of turning this into art just felt like such a natural. Yes. For us. And so they. They gave us a list of directors, and Ryan White and Jess Hargrave were on that list. We had months earlier, watched A Love Story, which was their documentary about Pamela Anderson, which is one of those films where it's my favorite kind of film. You have a preconceived notion of somebody and then you learn the story of their life and then you fall in love with them and you reflect on what the hell is wrong with me that I had those thoughts, that that was my perspective. It's my favorite kind of film. And so when we saw they were on the list, we're like them. We want them. We want them.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh, wow.

[Megan Fowle]

Yeah. And they came, they flew into our driveway and we met them there. They didn't fly into our driveway.

[Amanda Doyle]

I wouldn't be surprised.

[Abby Wambach]

I was like, wow, they're high rollers more than I thought.

[Megan Fowle]

They flew into the God awful Denver International Airport and then, you know, found themselves here into your mailbox Ubers. And. But we met them out there and just gave them hugs. And Andrea said, I guess you all are going to be here when I die. Welcome to my home. And I think that, I mean, speaks to who and how Andrea is, which is immediately vulnerable. Skip right past the small talk. Just go for it. Small talk. Allergic, probably. And they said to us, 1% of we'll shoot forever and 1% gets used. So just, you know, don't think too much about it. One thing that was really funny is we took a walk and they were filming us on a walk. And we went with Steph as well. And she had sort of forgot that Andrea and I were mic'd. And she came up to us and she goes, oh, thank God, I really like them. I was worried. And then we would just start laughing because we can see them in the distance laughing. But it felt so immediately connective. And by the time that they left, like the second day, they came with us, I think, to Andrea's first radiation session ever. And then they left from there and we were crying and telling them we love them. And it couldn't have been more true. So even that whole process was just like you said, Amanda. It was like a double love story happening at all of the times. And they. They would fly in every three weeks and stay with us for three days at a time, which is actually really interesting because Andrea's chemo cycle is also every three weeks. And we'd kind of been in a habitual pattern of a little bit of dread with finding out in those three weeks the status of the cancer. But then our new friends were coming that we're making this project with together, and it was like the joy of having them come was eclipsing that other sort of dreaded cycle.

[Glennon Doyle]

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[Abby Wambach]

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[Amanda Doyle]

When the documentary was premiered at Sundance, afterwards we were all in the theater together. And afterwards, this large, kind of like big, I mean, big bro guy, big straight looking white guy, stood up to speak as soon as the standing ovation was over.

[Glennon Doyle]

Well, and just so the folks know, there was a Q and A right after the film. And then the Q and A. This is what, the moment that this.

[Amanda Doyle]

Gentleman stood up and he was choked up. And he said, I have never. The whole theater went silent. And he said, I have never enjoyed crying for an hour and a half as much as I enjoyed that. And then he said, please, please, when this gets bought, please make sure that it's in every theater so that people can experience this in community. He was stunned. You could just tell he was stunned by his own love for this for U2. And I just. That's going to be the experience everywhere. And I can't. I think one of the reasons I feel so grateful for it is just the way the universe put it in this moment, in this country, it's such an undeniable piece. You just can't watch it and not have your heart explode with love for life and for your love. And I just wonder, what do you think is so special about you and Andrea? Because actually what's discussed behind the scenes is that this, there's a stakes right in the doc because of the cancer, but it couldn't be less about cancer. I truly believe in my whole heart that if it were just following you two for a year without the cancer, that it would also crack hearts open because there's something about you two individually and together that is so epitomizes love. So what the hell is it? What is going on with you two and you individually. But for real, like, what do you think in your hardest of hearts and your mindest of minds?

[Megan Fowle]

You know, I was telling Ryan in the green room the other day. It was after our third time we had seen the movie, and it was the first time that I felt like I was objectively able to be like, okay, this is good. Because the first time you watch it, you're just like, what? You're just watching yourself, and it's not like you're acting, and you don't know what lines you're going to say because they've only taken 1% of your life, and you just have no idea. And it was the most surreal experience to watch it. The first time. I just had no concept. But by the third time, I'm like, that is a beautiful film. And I said to Ryan backstage, you know, I've never really considered myself to be an interesting subject before I saw this. And the way I view Andrea is like, Andrea is so dynamic. They are mercurial, and they have every feeling in the whole spectrum, and they're funny and they're weird. And so I was always sort of able to see Andrea as like, you would be great in a documentary. But I didn't feel that in myself necessarily until I, you know, witnessed myself through another person's eye. And. Yeah. So I don't think I could have pitched it myself and been like, here's why I'm interesting and you should film me. I didn't inherently have that. And I do probably think that there is a slice of everyone in their life that could make a beautiful film with the right eye and attention and knowing what to notice. But what I will say that perhaps. I know documentaries don't typically happen in a year, and Ryan had told us that usually the first day is a total wash. And it was so awkward that first day. Yeah, I just. I. I wasn't used to it. I didn't know what to do. We were eating dinner, and I was so aware. Chew with your mouth closed. Make sure this is really important.

[Abby Wambach]

Don't you. Stupid.

[Megan Fowle]

Yeah, there's just an awkward, sort of an awkward silence. We were having dinner with our friend Steph, and what they actually ended up capturing that night ends up being in the film. It's one of the funniest scenes in the film, but it quickly pivots to tears. And I think that their team was in no way expecting that we would immediately go as vulnerable, real deep, exposed as we did the first day. And so maybe there's Something about approaching poets who are more predisposed, I guess, to vulnerability. That made us good subjects in this way. There wasn't pretense. We weren't rehearsing what we were going to say. It's all incredibly authentic. And Brandon, our cinematographer, our director of photography, who we absolutely fell in love with, he was so. It never felt like there was this big camera in our face. He just. He was always doing something handheld, and he was just, like, close and intimate. He said in an interview that he wanted the camera to feel like a fourth dog, which I thought was so brilliant. But there was just such an ease around them. I mean, I think the first night Andrea invited them into the sauna, and Andrea's, like, weightlifting with no shirt in the. Like, there was just instant vulnerability. And I think that you can feel that through the film.

[Glennon Doyle]

I think it's important for the folks that are listening. One of the things that not only shocked me, because, you know, you and Andrea are like rock stars in the poetry community, and you're beacons of the queer community. Like, we look to you. And what I found so fascinating about this film was that there was so much around this cancer diagnosis, around this story. It was just like a beautiful example, an elegant and classy example of how when given difficult news and over and over again throughout this film, at times, how love was the center of you all. And, yeah, fear can creep in at times, but I just felt so incredibly awed by how normal you two felt and how aspirational. Like, you're abnormal in the aspiration of dealing with something like this cancer diagnosis and letting folks into your home. But how real and true you showed up on screen, that even if you are a frat bro, you will find yourself in Andrea. Because this is like. I don't know. I don't know how to say it, but it was. To me, it was just like this beautiful documentary of us all watching ourselves in certain ways and in moments. And I know you guys are not us and you're different than everybody, but I just felt like it was so universal and so gorgeous, and I'm so grateful that you said yes. I have retroactive fear that, like, what if this never happened? You know, because it's so good and it needs to get out into the world anyways. That's my little.

[Abby Wambach]

It's so generous, Meg. You know, the reason that they did it abnormally and did it all in a year is because none of us know how much time we have. But you, especially acutely, are aware that that time is Limited. The generosity of letting us in to be part of that time is really amazing to me. Did you ever have moments throughout where you felt protective or territorial about your time? Like, you don't get to be here. This is mine, this is Andrea's. This is. Did you have that sensation at all? And if so, like, when and what did you do with it?

[Megan Fowle]

I wonder if maybe with a different crew of people, I might have had that sensation. But I can honestly say I didn't have that sensation one second.

[Amanda Doyle]

Wow.

[Megan Fowle]

Yeah. I felt. Well, they were so instantly our friends that we just felt like, why haven't we been doing this with our friends here? And since then, our friend Heather is in the film. She's an ex girlfriend of Andrea's. She's also Andrea's manager. And since the making of the documentary, Heather's come with us now to every single chemo, and she comes to most of our appointments with us because their presence helped us realize the importance of roping in more community to it, for sure.

[Abby Wambach]

Oh, so it wasn't just being a subject that was being observed. It changed having someone, having another presence there, having community there, actually helped you. How? Why?

[Megan Fowle]

I mean, Brandon is the one, the DP who director of photography, who came into most of the more intimate appointments with us because we couldn't really bring everybody in. So he was there with his camera. And Brandon and I would have a lot of conversations throughout, like about. He reads novels and we would talk about books and we would just. I think to have a third person present whose experience wasn't only Andrea cancerous opened up our peripheral vision, which was so important during times like this, to not just be inward, to have somebody else there to ask questions about their life and get their perspective and learn something new. And I think it just took us in some ways out of ourselves. And as soon as the third person is in, I can't help it, I want to make that person laugh. And so when Heather's there too now, Andrew is constantly having to, like, shush us because they're like, remember, this is a serious place. And there's just so much laughter when we invite another person in. Yeah. So it didn't feel territorial. It felt only like a gift to us.

[Amanda Doyle]

Does it help you? Sometimes I think that I don't understand what's going on in myself, in my life, until Abby tells me what she sees, like, good or bad. When Abby tells me, this is what I'm seeing in you, this is what I'm seeing, then I'm like, oh, I'm amazing or oh, I'm fucked, or oh, I'm whatever. But, like, was there something about having a witness to your story who is also going to project that story out to the world that made you understand the epicness of your lives? You know, Ulysses is nothing until somebody writes the story. Your story is epic. And you even know what you say in some parts of the doc, like, this is like biblical allegorical shit. Did it help you to take your place in that story as epic to have a witness?

[Megan Fowle]

I think mostly I felt that not so much when they were here and doing the filming, because we were just living our lives, but through the editing. And our editor is Berenice Chavez. And I don't know how somebody does that job who sits with hours and hours and hours of footage. Some of it's monotonous and mundane and connects it all together. To tell a story in 90 minutes, I cannot fathom it. So I don't know if I felt anything epic in the day to day, but when I saw it all collected, what I mostly felt was, thank God I have something that I can show people so that they understand what it's been. Because you can tell people what the ups and downs feel like. You can try to put it into words, but it's really just an approximation of the thing. And you can say, no. We actually don't worry too much about us. We've been really joyful. We've been dancing in our kitchen, we've been loving and laughing. But when you actually, you see it, you see us get hard news and then laughing in bed. You see us, you know, have a difficult day and then dance or however it is it. It felt like, oh, my God, I get to, people get to understand now. And I'm a writer, you know, I, I my whole life, I'm trying to write my experience in a way that people will understand and like what you said, Glennon. Find something true enough, but to see it, to have the actual images and really invite people into our home in that way without having to constantly have people in our home. I cannot wait to share it with more people, but especially people close to me.

[Glennon Doyle]

Foreign.

[Abby Wambach]

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[Glennon Doyle]

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[Amanda Doyle]

Sometimes Meg, when someone asks you a question, I don't know if you know that you do this, but if someone asks you a serious question like how are you? You'll go, language, language. And it makes my heart swell when you do that because to me it's like this moment where you are wanting to answer with your whole self and truth and body. And you know you only have this one tool, which is language, which is never going to be enough. And you're just, to me, it's like your signal, like, okay, you'll never be able to know just from the words I pick. But I'm going to try.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah, but that's why this film is.

[Amanda Doyle]

So incredible, because you can your whole body and the feeling it made me appreciate embodiment and movie so much because you had more than language to tell and show. And I wonder, what do you think when you watch it? That Makes you an interesting subject, like when you are finally able to admit, oh, I'm an interesting subject. You described why Andrea is. Why are you an interesting subject?

[Megan Fowle]

I think that there's a tension in our differences that. In a good way, but there's a juxtaposition of. Like Andrea says in the film, I am not a big worrier. I really try to just be with the moment in front of me, and my head is very rarely on the future outcome. So that's not to say if the moment in front of me is really hard, I'll have a hard time in that moment. But I tend not to be having a hard time in a future that doesn't exist yet, which I think is probably healthy, but that it's also extremely uncommon. And so I think there's just this push and pull of experience. So Andrea is really good at feeling all of the feelings through in real time, like every one. And it's fast and they, you know, just. It's a whirlwind. And I am more. A bit more level, I think, and steady. And there's something about, I guess, the relationship as its own wholeness or its own person and then pulled apart. I think there's something in that, too. And, of course, I've had my own journey with my body through Andrea's diagnosis as well, that I've spoken about. But how having someone face an incurable cancer diagnosis and the threat of potentially not having a body anymore soon threw cold water on the face of me having body image issues. And how. I don't want to say that small, because it's not. Because it's lifelong. And something I've held and carried since I was a kid and somebody told me to, and a culture reinforced it, but it made the discrepancy of not that this thing is small, but that this thing should be small. And I think I was glad that they weaved my story about that into it side by side, in case other folks, and I'm sure all of us, have our, whatever, insecurities. And I hope that the telling of that could illuminate something for other people watching who weren't necessarily facing a health scare, but some other issue, and we all have them, of living in the bodies we're living in.

[Abby Wambach]

I think about it once a day from the film, like that piece of it of. I mean, I don't think it's a little parallel track. I think it's the whole main track, too. Like, I want to live. And if I'm suspending my ability to live to my fullest until X, until something looks like or feels like or I achieve X, whether it's body or job or whatever, then I'm actually not living. I'm not taking the life and living it now. And so I think it's feels like all exactly the same thing to me when I watch it. And it's that part of your journey I think about once a day in my life and to love the body that I have and live in it right now, today. So that was incredibly powerful. And I also think that the way that you describe your experience of not future tripping, and in some ways I feel like you think you're having a maybe a more limited experience because so many people are future tripping and you're not, or you say like, I don't do that, but it is so rare that to me that's like you are having the full experience. Because when I am in a moment, and I think this moment may be sort of okay, or maybe there's some good things happening, but I know it's just all gonna be really bad. I am actually never. I am not having the full experience. I am only living in the future, potentially horrible outcome all the time, which isn't even real. It isn't real, right? You are actually experiencing the real thing that is actually happening in that moment every time it's happening. Instead of having this future filter on every experience that doesn't actually allow you to engage with it, which I feel like is what I do, so I can never be here.

[Amanda Doyle]

What do you think about that, Meg?

[Megan Fowle]

I have never thought about it that way. I love how you just phrased it that way. And thank you. Well, first of all, even you saying that you think about any part of a movie once a day, it's so validating and affirming and just heart opening that we could have turned this into something that is helping or changing things for other people. But yeah, I think you're right. Like there was part of me that was like, am I having a limited experience because I'm not in constant turmoil? Does that make sense? That sounds so weird when I say it back to you now. But yeah, on days when Andrea is in a lot of pain, it's very painful for me. But on days when they're not, I am not being like, well, it's going to be something or other in the future because I don't and can't know that. And you're right, that is. Why would I have thought that being present with it is somehow less so? Thank you for that, sister.

[Amanda Doyle]

Why did you decide to come on in as an executive producer? Because actually, Sara Bareilles is not the only non lesbian bonus.

[Glennon Doyle]

Oh, yeah, that's right.

[Amanda Doyle]

Producer.

[Glennon Doyle]

That's right. That's right.

[Amanda Doyle]

Sarah and Amanda.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah.

[Abby Wambach]

I also get my medal of honor. Oh, my gosh. It just wasn't a question of being invited into something so beautiful. What a gift. Gift in this time to this time of a very long shadow over a lot of beauty, to be able to be a small part of putting a light on the beauty just felt very like a gift. A gift to be able to do that, you know, for myself. Very selfish gifts. And I think what I love a lot about what this film will do is like, yes, the subject matter, yes, the communities, yes, all of the people who have struggled with a lot of this particular hard thing, but also for people to see, knowing that if someone had a camera on your life, you would be a hero, too.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yes.

[Abby Wambach]

Everybody has in their life something like, if your childhood had been documented and you had the director and the editor that you deserved, you would see yourself and you would cry because of how you survived. And if there was one on your divorce, you would see those cuts of what you said to your kids. You would see those cuts of the days you woke up and pushed through, and you would be like, I'm a goddamn hero. And so when we see you two living the way you are, with just such a ferocious will to live, I think that we can see some of those moments in ourselves to be like we're doing it. Like, if we could actually see the story of each of our lives and the story of each other's lives, we would be like, everyone is out here trying so hard to survive and to live and to do their best for each other. And that's really. If we could do that for each other, we would live in a very different world for ourselves and for each other, you know?

[Amanda Doyle]

Yeah. We only have a few minutes left, so I want to talk about two things. Damn it. Number one, I want to talk about what you're doing creatively right now, because, like, what have you done for us lately is my question. It's been a week since Sundance, so I want to know what we're going to get next. And then also, we have to tell the pod squad what happened. So we were home for two days after Sundance, and then I was in the basement, and Abby was upstairs. And I hear Abby yelling, and she's running down the stairs with the phone, and she says, megan and Andrea and Jess and Ryan are on the phone, and they have to tell us something. And then, Meg, what do they tell us?

[Megan Fowle]

They told us that our film won festival favorite at Sundance, which means that of all of the films that premiered there, viewers voted it their favorite one. Now, we called Abby immediately because we were tapped into Abby's competitive edge and the fact that she loves winning and is great at it. And I will say Abby said something that Andrea and I still quote to each other, which was the sweetest, most earnest thing. And she said, this is better than any Olympic gold medal I've ever won, because this is about love.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah, it is. And it was. And it's true. And like, P.S. the very first meeting that we had with Ryan and Jess, the director and producer of this film, I was like, okay, so what awards can we win if winning was.

[Amanda Doyle]

Believe it, Meg, what does being a.

[Abby Wambach]

Champion look like in your film context?

[Glennon Doyle]

I just need to know.

[Amanda Doyle]

Winning. We're making winning.

[Glennon Doyle]

I just needed to know. And Ryan, he's like, we won't be up for any of the awards for various, like, Sundance rules reasons. And I was like, I'm. Oh, this is terrible news for me.

[Megan Fowle]

I'm out.

[Glennon Doyle]

So now I'm just gonna, like, enjoy the process. Which was actually a good lesson. But then when you guys called, Ryan said, this award is so beyond what I even could potentially dream of that I didn't even wanna tell you this was a possibility. This is like the award they give for the favorite. We're favorites.

[Amanda Doyle]

And also, like, Hot Squad. Just listen. The only. You know, it's something like 30,000 films are submitted to Sundance, and then, like, 39 get in. I'm making these numbers up. Just. It's like that, though. And then Andrea and Meg's doc won. Of those 39. Andrea and Meg's doc Of the people who voted.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah.

[Amanda Doyle]

Of all the movies. Not the docs. All the movies. The favorite.

[Glennon Doyle]

It's so exciting.

[Megan Fowle]

I think it's 17,000 submissions and then 88 films shown.

[Glennon Doyle]

Wow.

[Megan Fowle]

Yeah.

[Glennon Doyle]

Wow. That's so redonkulous of you all.

[Amanda Doyle]

And, Meg, Abby said when Ryan said, there's no. We're not gonna be eligible for anything at dinner that night, Abby goes, I know that Ryan said that, but I know. I know there's an. There's competitions, and I know we're gonna win it. I don't know what it is. I just know we're gonna win.

[Glennon Doyle]

I know. I knew it. I said that. I'm like, I know we're gonna win something. And there has to be something we can win.

[Amanda Doyle]

There can't be art for art's sake.

[Abby Wambach]

Like, what?

[Megan Fowle]

Oh, my God.

[Glennon Doyle]

And it's just because I. Look, I believed in this project so much, and I believed in the way that this project came together, because it was just like everybody who participated and said yes was like a full body yes. It was like, not like, oh, like.

[Amanda Doyle]

Let me talk to my agent.

[Glennon Doyle]

Let me talk to so and so. I mean, look, one of Andrea's greatest dreams and you can speak to this, was to write a song with Brandy Carlile. And in the movie, tell the story. This is an important part of this story, too.

[Megan Fowle]

Yeah. Andrea's poems are woven throughout, but the film ends with lyrics. Andrea wrote that Sarah and Brandy turned into a gorgeous song, and Sarah's singing it. I don't know if I think Brandy might end up singing on it as well later in the process, but the credits were. And it's this another collaboration, really, another beautiful collaboration. It's been so incredible to make something. I mean, as writers, it can feel like such a solo process. And if you win something, you win it, but you're up there alone. And so, Abby, you probably. You have a different experience winning something as a team. And winning as a team just feels so. It's so much better.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yes.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yes.

[Megan Fowle]

All of it as a team is so much better. I don't know how I'll write anything alone again. I'm just going to invite everyone over.

[Abby Wambach]

All right, fine. Meg, I'll do it with you. Could have asked.

[Amanda Doyle]

Meg sent us a video. It's important. Yes. Sara Bareilles and Brandi and Andrea and this big song, and it's on the credits, and it's huge. But a couple days later, after Sundance, Meg sent us a video of Andrea in the doctor's office at chemo with Heather sitting next to them, and Andrea's feet are just bopping in the bed to the song that they're listening to during chemo. It's just. It's all very. It's not just what's shown. It's. It's really real. The project is fueling all of us in our lives, not just out there.

[Glennon Doyle]

Okay, what's next?

[Amanda Doyle]

What are you working on right now? Megan Fowle?

[Megan Fowle]

I'm working on completing my memoir. I feel like I'm in the home stretch here, and I had started writing a book about my body many years ago, and I didn't know the plot twist of my partner getting cancer would happen and how it impacted me physically and emotionally and spiritually. Would happen. So, yeah, that has ended up being a big, big part of the story as well. And, yeah, I'm still working on that. And my hope is that the film just. We keep going to festivals, honestly, so we can keep all being together and keep laughing and crying in community and. Yeah.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yeah. We love you, Meg Fowley.

[Megan Fowle]

I love each and every one of you for individual and specific cherished reasons.

[Amanda Doyle]

Language, language, language. So we'll see if this most beautiful film in the entire world that all of Sundance decided was the best film, if in this moment, there is a network or streamer that will be brave enough to go against the tide of this moment in the world and put this film in living rooms all over the country and world, which is where it should be.

[Glennon Doyle]

Yeah. Because we went into the Sundance Film Festival as an independent, not attached to a network or a distribution network. So the hope is somebody buys it up so we can put it in theaters, slash get it into every television, because this is this movie people need to see right now. And I'm not just saying that because we're part of it. If I had nothing to do with this movie, I would also be saying this.

[Amanda Doyle]

Hi, Apple. Hi, hbo.

[Abby Wambach]

Is there anything the good people of America can do? Like, I want to be able to send this to people. Is it. It's not like calling your congressperson.

[Amanda Doyle]

Yeah.

[Megan Fowle]

Call your local streaming service.

[Glennon Doyle]

This is a good question.

[Amanda Doyle]

I think they're gonna know what to do, right, Nike? I mean, do you know anything specific they can do? Because I don't. I just think they're gonna know what to do.

[Megan Fowle]

Well, what. One thing I want to say just about all of this is we had somebody say similar to what you're saying. I hope that someone will be brave enough in this current administration to put this out. But this. It's not in any way a political film.

[Glennon Doyle]

That's right.

[Megan Fowle]

It's a love story. We happen to be queer. Andrea happens to be non binary, but the focus isn't on that. It's such a human story and such a love story, and I think anyone could watch it and see that they have way more in common with us than they have differences. And I think that's sort of something that's most important because you can invite these two people into your home via a streaming service that you probably wouldn't necessarily maybe invite into your home, you know, if you're on the other side of things and realize the commonality and the shared humanity. And I actually think for that reason, it's so important that it gets to a larger streaming service or to more people because I think it can bridge what we imagine as our differences and show that this, you know, mortality, cancer, death, that it's not a two party system. It will happen to us all and we all have love. And yeah, I think that this is the time for a movie like this to come out.

[Glennon Doyle]

Damn. That's the way to end it.

[Amanda Doyle]

Oh, some good language, Megan.

[Glennon Doyle]

Good language.

[Amanda Doyle]

We love you, Pod Squad. Reach out to your local senators, your local streaming president. I don't know, just. You'll know what to do.

[Abby Wambach]

Yeah, we did our part.

[Amanda Doyle]

Okay.

[Glennon Doyle]

Call your people.

[Abby Wambach]

Reach into your soul and ask your soul not what the movie can do for you, but what you can do for the movie.

[Amanda Doyle]

Exactly. Does somebody have an Aunt Carol that works at HBO or Apple? Or call Aunt Carol. We love you, Pod Squad. Bye Bye. If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things? Following the pod helps you because you'll never miss an episode, and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would. Would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso, Allison Schott, Dina Kleiner and Bill Schultz, SA.