B (5:57)

The link will be in the YouTube show notes. It'll be in the audio show notes, wherever you listen to podcasts or you can find it on any of our social media pages.

A (6:06)

And now we give you a real tr. As our dear friend Allison's mom always says, I don't know, that means treat. And I'm not sure why that we use that abbreviation because it's longer than just saying treat. But for you, we have a real tr which is Akram Ibrahim, okay? He is our friend. He is a Palestinian American from Atlanta. He's based in Southern California. Lucky for us, Akram is currently volunteering as the PCRF Chapter president for LA O Cie. That's Los Angeles, Orange County, Inland Empire. He's held many speaker and volunteer positions with PCRF and other Palestine related nonprofits, all with the intended purpose of furthering the Palestinian cause and elevating Palestinian voices for humanitarian, cultural, and educational efforts. POD Squad, welcome our friend Akram.

C (7:06)

How are you?

D (7:07)

I'm.

C (7:08)

I'm better now that Akram is here to chat with us, because I love Akram's chats.

A (7:13)

I know. He's such a good chat.

D (7:14)

You guys are awesome. And by the way, I've just spent the last two weeks on the road. I got home last night. So, like, we did. We did our sound check yesterday. I was in Salt Lake. Before that was in Chicago, New Orleans, Atlanta, and Dallas. Since I saw you guys last.

C (7:27)

Oh, my gosh.

A (7:28)

Well, I have had a similar situation. I've been in my living room and then my kitchen and then my bedroom, and then I go to my bathtub, and then I go back to my kitchen, and it's like I never even know where that hell I am.

D (7:37)

Aim, I don't know how you do it.

C (7:40)

I think Glennon has probably actually traveled the same amount of miles inside her home that she just goes back and forth to all the different places. It's amazing.

A (7:52)

I have great adventures, Akram. Great adventures. Just all within these walls. Well, the POD Squad should know first of all, that Akram is our friend. We met at a protest at a block. The Bombs protest in Orange County. I just. Akram, I just remember, I think we just sat. We just stood and chatted for a while, right at that. And then we decided to be friends. And then you came over to our house, and we sat for hours and hours with Abby and Chase, and you told us stories about your life and your work. And we decided we just wanted to be friends with you forever. And so then I called my sister and said, you must meet Akram. And here we are.

D (8:32)

No, it was awesome. It was totally random, right? My friend Omar was like, hey, you gotta meet this lady, Glennon. She wants to help Palestinian kids. I was like, all right, great. So we went and introduced myself as I was on my way out. And you're like, hey, we should talk about this. You should come over and we should talk about this for real. Which was awesome. Like, it was totally out of the blue. I just happened to be an OC that day. And it worked out perfectly.

A (8:53)

Yeah, it was the best. I just shout out to Omar, Omar. All roads lead to Omar. Freaking love him. I mean, Omar is so fun and wonderful and Maybe once every couple weeks, we get a video of Hakeem, his son, throwing the football. This is an. He coaches. Anyway, this is a whole nother story, but he and Abby have a lot of sports. And you're sportsy, too.

C (9:20)

Yes.

A (9:21)

Right?

D (9:22)

Oh, yeah. When. When I left. When I left Yalls house, I showed the picture to all the girls that I trained because I trained high school soccer players on the side. And I was like, oh, yeah. I was just hanging out with Glennon and Abby. They're like, oh, wait, what are you talking about? I was, oh, yeah, me and Abby Wambach. No big deal. Like, it's fine.

A (9:38)

I love it.

C (9:39)

So good.

A (9:40)

Thanks for being so cool, babe.

D (9:42)

Yeah.

A (9:42)

Give us a little street cred. Yeah, you're welcome.

D (9:45)

Made me way cooler with the high school community of San Marcos, California.

C (9:48)

Yes, you're welcome, Akram.

A (9:52)

You're welcome, Akram. Tell us a little bit. Just put us in place right now. So many of us are paying close attention to the ceasefire. What does it mean to you? What's happening? What's on the ground? What do you want us to know about that?

D (10:06)

Sure. So, number one, I appreciate y' all having me on today. I mean, it's really great to see you all. Amanda, really good to meet you for the first time, but really excited to be here as a Palestinian and as your friend and as just somebody local in California. Right. So it's been. It's been awesome so far. And before I start, I want to say I'm speaking as a volunteer, as a Palestinian. Anything that I say, I know I represent a couple organizations here in Southern California. Anything that I say is representative of myself. I'm going to speak on behalf of some of the organizations, too, and we'll get into that. But I want to make sure that I'm going to give my perspective as a Palestinian, grew up in America, born in America, and I want to make sure that I put that out there in the beginning, because, again, it's a tricky time right now for nonprofits. It's a tricky time right now, just in general, in the world. So I want to make sure that I give that little disclaimer, as I'm a volunteer. I'm just somebody who's trying to help, and that's really what it is. And as far as, what do we want to know now with the ceasefire, with everything going on? We're happy that we have a relief in the bombing in Gaza right now, but I want to make sure that people know also that ceasefire for Gaza does not Mean, it's the end of the line for what we're working on. It's really the beginning because a lot of times people try to separate Gaza from the west bank, and really Palestinians are Palestinians. So Palestinians in Gaza were going through the brunt of the action for the last two years that we've watched. But also Palestinians in the west bank have been going through it for years as well. My mom is there right now, so I'm getting daily updates from my friends, my family that are there in the West Bank. The people that are in Gaza are happy that there is relief for now, but also, we don't know what tomorrow holds. So our goal and what we wanted to talk about is how we can be involved, because Palestine definitely needs all of us, Palestinians, non Palestinians, anybody who cares or wants to be involved. Because realistically, this was the beginning, not the end, if that makes sense.

A (12:02)

One of the things that every time we talk about Palestine, we remind people or ask guests to remind people. There are still many Americans who have this idea that this nightmare genocide began as a reaction to the horrific October 7th Hamas attacks. And so it's important to constantly remind people, as you mentioned, this is not the end, but the beginning, that October 7th was not the beginning of this. From your perspective, what was the beginning of this nightmare?

D (12:41)

I'm gonna use a phrase today that I'm gonna keep using, that I use with a lot of my friends who are starting to learn. And again, everybody knows I'm Palestinian. We joke around that my number one personality trait is that I'm Palestinian, that if I was getting kidnapped by somebody, they'd let me go really quickly because I just talk my. Talk their head about Palestine, and then they'd like to get out of here. Like, we're done. I had a off site with my company yesterday, and one of the things that they asked as an icebreaker was that question, what would you talk about to get a kidnapper to let go of you? And I was like, palestine. And then I sent the screenshot of the slide to my family, and I was like, what do you guys think? I said, yeah, Palestine. This is basically my entire personality trait. Every shirt that I have is a Palestine shirt. The books on my bookcase are Palestinian books. We like to elevate Palestinian voices because again, this is not brand new for us. So the phrase that I'll use is pay attention to when you started paying attention. People are paying attention now, and it's like, oh, wow. Like, this is crazy. What I'm seeing on the news, what I'M seeing on my social media is wild. But again, obviously history didn't start October 7th. You know, organizations have been a part of, have been involved in Gaza and the west bank and Palestine in general for the last 30 years, 40 years. Like people have been on the ground doing work forever. So, I mean, I went to my first protest when I was 11, 10, 11 years old. Like we're talking back, you know, 2000, 2001, right. So I know that's how we met and that's how we got connected, just because we were out in the community, being a part of the community. But again, I've been doing this for 25 years now, right? And that's just me as myself as a kid that my mom and, you know, my mom took me and my siblings to these events to make sure that we knew we were Palestinian, that we knew what was happening to our families overseas was not great. I also lived in Palestine in 2002 and I saw a lot of this firsthand, right? Like I went through checkpoints. You know, I've seen the restricted movement. And again, back then in the early 2000s was a tough time, obviously, just like it is right now for some people. So it hasn't changed it, but it's changed is how people are paying attention. So what I tell everybody is pay attention. When you started paying attention, you can go into the whole history and that's a whole different podcast. If we wanted to talk about the history of the 80 plus years of, you know, Palestinians going through this, of, you know, whether it's displacement, different communities, we're not going to get into that today because that's a whole three hour long conversation plus that we can get into. But what I will leave people with is to pay attention. When you started paying attention, because that is the phrase, because I'm thankful now people are paying attention. I'm thankful people are talking about us. We are trending. Being Palestinian and talking about the Palestinian cause is cooler now than it ever has been. It's really unfortunate why we're cool to talk about and it's really unfortunate that I'm good at talking about this stuff because I have to do it so often. Our goal is that one day I can stop talking about this and just talk about the fun things like our culture full time, right? Like our dance, our music, our food, our hospitality. All that stuff is what we want to focus on. But we can't lose sight of the humanitarian peace, which is what we'll talk about later, and all these other pieces of the puzzle that need to be solved first before we can get into just having fun about being Palestinian.

A (15:41)

Yeah. So when. But we won't. We won't. This is not the podcast for it. I understand that. But just to say what you were protesting when you were a child, what you're talking about, that was going on, that was requiring all of this activism, is the occupation, is the Israeli occupation of the land that belonged to the Palestinians at that time. That's what you're talking about, correct? Yeah.

D (16:01)

So like I said, I've been going through checkpoints Since I was 11 years old in the West Bank. We've been driving through the settlements since I was 10 years old in the West Bank. My parents both were born in Palestine and they have restricted movement when they're there. Right. So like, my mom actually just got her birth certificate the other day while she was overseas. She got a copy of it on the birth certificate where it says hospital, it says. Which means in the house. Because she was literally born on the balcony of her. My grandparents house. So she's born like in the village. She's from the village. My dad's house. So my other grandfather's house is down the street. So my grandfather, my grandparents have been in Palestine for generations. And over time, you know, the land has gotten smaller. Movement's been restricted. You can't really go town to town very easily, which makes relief efforts harder and harder sometimes because you have to try to transport things between different checks and balances and approvals that you may or may not get as well. So that's the global picture of Palestine, if you will. And like I said, that's why I like to make it about not just Gaza, not just the west bank, because Palestinians exist in the entire region and Palestinians as a whole need to be elevated and spoken about, because otherwise that's how we slowly fade away, unfortunately.

A (17:12)

Yeah.

B (17:13)

And when you're talking about checkpoints and resources coming in humanitarian, it is correct to say that for decades Israel has controlled anything that comes into Palestine, anything that goes out of Palestine, movement of Palestinian people within their own land. And you referenced settlement. So I want to make sure that people understand that there are people who have lived generationally on land in Palestine, are faced with a situation that Israeli, quote, unquote, settlers will come and forcibly remove the people that have lived there for generations and. And set up their own houses. Removing Palestinian people by force from land that they have lived on generationally.

D (18:07)

Yes. Yep. So that's the settlement project within the west bank. There's about 700,000 settlers within the West Bank. But a really easy example of kind of the situation is how we enter Palestine. So like when I go to the west bank, there's two ways to get in. You either fly in through the airport in Tel Aviv or you go in through Amman, Jordan and you cross through the. We have a border crossing and depending on the passport you have depends on how you can get in. So we don't have an airport. So you can only get in between one of the two borders. Each one has its own challenges. Whether it's checks through the airport, I usually get private screening, like my VIP status, if you will. So I get, you know, my, my entry through there sometimes. This year we entered through the border in Jordan. And again, that comes with its own challenges. And some people are stuck choosing one or the other and they can't do what they can to get in, to get home. My mom was going in a couple weeks ago because she came with me, went back, she got to the border, it just got closed down. So she was there for four and a half hours waiting in Jordan to try to get in. They didn't open it up. They didn't know when it was going to open up. She ended up going to my aunt's house in Amman, flew backwards to Dubai, Dubai to Tel Aviv, and then entered through the airport at that point. So she had the privilege, the ability, the means to be able to do that. Not a lot of Palestinians can have, can do that time wise financially or even the right paperwork to do that. So it just depends on your luck of the draw, the paperwork sometimes, and the luck of the draw of who's working that checkpoint that day.

A (19:37)

Yeah, yeah, so. And you know, the international community has decided that this was all illegal and given Palestinians a right of return, which has never once been enforced. So that's where we are now. Can you tell the POD squad and my sister, I'm dying for you to, for her to hear. You sat on our couch and you brought a notebook and there was a picture of little Akram in, I think, elementary school by a little flag that said Palestine, I just need you because I also feel like the story tells us so much about your mom and I'm obsessed with your mom. So can you tell the POD squad that story?

D (20:20)

Sure. And by the way, this is not a prop. These are pictures that I keep on my desk as a reminder. So I lived in Palestine in sixth grade. We were there for seven months. My mom thought it was a good idea to take her four kids, move overseas for a little bit to make sure we got to know our grandparents, our. Our land, our culture. Just kind of immerse ourselves in there. So she took our books from the schools here. We did homeschooling for six months there. Great time. Even with all of the problems that the region had at the time and the lack of movement, we weren't able to go out much in those six months. We had a great time, but we came back after I told all my friends, hey, I was in Palestine. I was at my grandfather's house, and my mom used to come to my school all the time and bring her Palestine box to teach our friends where we were from. I grew up in northern suburbs of Georgia. We were one of the first Palestinian families people knew up there. We were one of the first Muslim families people knew up there. So a lot of my friends had never met a Palestinian and maybe never knew what a Muslim was before, Right. So my mom kind of brought us into the schools, and she was really involved with our schools. So my mom's great. She doesn't know I'm on the call today. I told her that I needed information to, like, prep for a call, but she didn't know why. So. Hi, Mom.

A (21:29)

Hi, Mom.

D (21:30)

So seventh grade, we had an international night. Our schools used to let each of the kids come in and represent their country in the cafeteria. It was like a nighttime event. You have a little table set up with food from your country, maybe a poster board, and there's like a little flag ceremony where everybody gets to walk in with their flag as, like, a little flag ceremony, right? Really exciting times. I was in seventh grade, and I was like, mom, we have this thing. So we signed up to go represent Palestine in this event. I went to the rehearsal, and I showed up, and there was no Palestine flag there. There was Jordan. And I was like, hey, there's no Palestine. They're like, oh, no, you're from Jordan. That's what the teacher told me. I was like, no, no. I'm like, I just came back from Palestine. My parents are from Palestine. I'm from Palestine. Like, what are you talking about? Like, no, no. The west bank is Jordanian territory. So at the end of the day, you can't represent Palestine. You can only represent Jordan. And there's a seventh grade teacher telling me a seventh grade. I'm 12, 13 years old at this time. So I went home, and I was like, hey, Mom. I went to the rehearsal, and there is no Palestine flag. And my mom is a very calm Palestinian Arab. Mom went down to the school and Like. Like this isn't happening. Like, we just came back from Palestine. My kids are Palestinian. What are you talking about? So after a little bit of back and forth with the school, they let me represent. But I keep this picture on my desk on purpose. So if you see this little flag right here, I didn't have a big flag. I got to walk in with a little flag. And then more importantly, if you see I was next to Pakistan and the Philippines, they let me represent the Palestinians. So I didn't get to represent Palestine because Palestine wasn't a place. I got to represent the Palestinian people. So that's actually a very important distinction in the conversation. I keep this picture on my desk at all times because the reminder of the mantra they created, I guess, because since then, I mean, I've been doing this nonstop for 20 years now, like, talking about being Palestinian and why Palestine is a place and why I made it a big distinction in the beginning to not just make this about Gazans, not just to make this about people in the West Bank. Like, Palestinians are everywhere, and there's Palestinians in the west bank, there's Palestinians in Gaza, There's Palestinians all over the world. But Palestine is a place. My parents were born there. My grandparents were born there. My great grandparents were born there. And our goal is to keep elevating our stories so people know that we do exist. We did exist, and we will exist. So that was part of the. My seventh grade training right here, which was I keep this picture. This is from February 27, 2003, when we had to go develop pictures. And this stayed at my desk at all times. I hate that I keep using this as a prop every time I talk to somebody new. And my mom's. Every time I tell this story, my mom's like, you're telling that story about the flag again. But it paints a picture, right?

A (24:05)

It does.

D (24:06)

Because back then and back then, we didn't have the support that we have now. And that's why I'm really thankful, know Glennon, for. For you and Abby, Amanda, for you. Now that I'm get to know you, too. Back then, we didn't have support. We didn't have people backing us up. We just. People just kind of let it go, right? There were situations that happened in the world back then that if people didn't talk about it, it just got wiped under the rug. Actually got into, like, activism and speaking work through Rachel Corey's parents. Rachel Corey was killed in 2003. She was in Rafa blocking a. A home from being demolished. She got run over. A really sad story, but her cousin was a professor at Emory University. And we got involved when they came to Atlanta and, you know, they got us involved in like the speaking and things like that. Because I was a young kid from the Atlanta area, also lived in Palestine. So I was able to speak to both sides as like a kid that said, hey, my name is Akram and I saw a gun pointed in my face at one point last year. Right? Like that's a crazy sentence for a 12 year old to say. But now we're able to take these stories and tell people that are actually listening now, which I'm very, very thankful for. I think we talked when we were at your house. Guys. I don't care when people get on board. I'm just glad people are here along for the ride now because we can't do it by ourselves. We've tried to do it by ourselves for so long. And now we have people who are hearing us, people who are elevating Palestinian stories, Palestinian voices. And it's really helping us kind of grow this movement of people who know Palestine exists and that Palestinians are humans. We teach life. We want to, we want to love, we want to learn, we want to grow, we want our kids to grow. And that's kind of the real, the real beauty of being Palestinian.

A (25:39)

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B (25:45)

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C (27:18)

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B (30:49)

Akram, when you talk about the distinction between carrying the flag that says Palestinians versus carrying the flag that says Palestine and your insistence that Palestine is a place, can you talk to us about the importance of that?

C (31:06)

The.

B (31:06)

The literal and figurative importance of being able to claim a place that is acknowledged and exists. Not only exists, but exists. It is understood that it exists.

D (31:24)

One of the things that I really harp on is people knowing where they come from. A lot of the events that I do, I spend a lot of time talking to these parents who have young kids who, whether they started to now or don't, I want them, their kids to be able to say, hi, my name is Akram. I'm from Palestine. Not my dad was Palestinian, my grandfather was from Syria, my great uncle was from Lebanon. I want them to be able to say, I'm from Palestine. And realistically, the more generations that pass through, if Palestine continues to shrink and then people lose the connection with the land, then all of a sudden Palestinians becomes a people who can live anywhere or can be from anywhere versus Palestine, which is a place like, I'm a Palestinian from Palestine, right? My grandmother is a Palestinian from Palestine. We're from a specific town in a specific place. We have a home, we have life, we have roots, we have land. All that is in a place versus saying that, hey, I'm Palestinian. It could be a theoretical I'm Palestinian from, from anywhere I'm Palestinian American. I'm Palestinian from Chile. I'm Palestinian from the uk it becomes a adjective versus a place, if that makes sense.

A (32:34)

And it's such gaslighting. It's like, if you're admitting there's Palestinians, but you're not admitting that. Like, I'm a Virginian, but there's no Virginia. Like, that's.

B (32:46)

But it's also very strategic. If your overall goal is to eliminate a place and to normalize the idea that these people can exist without their place, then you become someone like Netanyahu who can say, what's the problem? Why don't they just go somewhere else? They can still be Palestinian somewhere else, because I want their land. So, I mean, it is a very strategic move to separate a people from their place.

D (33:16)

And that's why I take that phrase. When people say, oh, how come Jordan or Egypt aren't taking more people in? Number one, they are taking people in. But the more important point is, why should they? Right? Like, why should the Palestinians leave Palestine? The people in Gaza already were refugees from 1948, right? So a lot of them have already been moved once, and a lot of them are saying, we're not moving again. And. And a lot of these people that are in Gaza, they have roots, they have a life. At the end of the day, yes, there was siege for a lot of years, but people within Gaza lived okay. Like, they didn't live great. They couldn't go a lot of places. They didn't have an airport. They still had to cross. And a lot of things were controlled by the Israeli, you know, security or Israeli government. But at the end of the day, it's funny, when you talk to somebody from Gaza, when. When they talk to somebody from the west bank, they look at us like, wow, you guys can't move around within the West Bank. You have checkpoints, right? Like, they have a different type of struggle, right? Like, it's still a Palestinian struggle, but it's a different type of struggle. But even we talk to people from Gaza, the first thing they say is, they want to go back. I spent the weekend actually in Chicago for the Chicago Marathon, and one of the girls I was there is 15 from Gaza. She's here for treatment, and she doesn't want to stay in America. As. As great as America is, and as much as we have here, her home is not here. She wants to go back. Everybody at the end of the day wants to go back to where they come from, where they feel comfortable, regardless of the beach she sees in California or The beautiful buildings in Chicago. At the end of the day, home is home. So that's why whenever I go back, people look at me like, are you sure you want to go back right now? I was there a month ago, right? Flying in and not a great time to get in. But at the end of the day, home is home. I'm not going to not see my grandfather. I'm not going to not see my mom. I'm not going to not see our family, our friends, our. Our life that we have there, too. And that's the importance of making sure Palestine is a place that we keep going back to. I can't go back there all the time. I don't have the paperwork to. And also, like, my life is here. My work is here. So I live here in America, and I'm happy to be American. America has given me a lot of opportunities, but at the end of the day, I'm Palestinian. And whenever people ask, I don't say, my dad's from Palestine. No, no, I'm from Palestine. It's written on my face. It's written on my shirts, all over my life, my license plate. There's no question about who I am.

A (35:26)

Beautiful. What do you love about. You said the dream would be that one day you get to just talk about the beauty of the Palestinian people and the culture and not this nightmare. So what do you love so much about being Palestinian and the Palestinian people?

D (35:44)

Objectively, we are just a hospitable people. It's part of the nature, it's part of the blood. It must be genetically coded or something, because at the end of the day, we all just want to gather. We're very simple people. We just want to hang out, drink some coffee, play cards, have family gatherings. And that's what the beauty of being Palestinian is. When I was overseas, we did nothing besides just hanging out on balconies or sitting outside and just talking. Right? Like, we are people that love to talk. We love to host, we love to be hospitable, we love to share our culture. We like to dance, we like to laugh. All these things are like basic, basic Palestinian structured lifestyle points of ours. Right. I don't even know how to say it right like that. It is. It is truly a beautiful culture. And we. We have artists, we have great thinkers, we have really, really smart people who have done awesome things for the world that have come from Palestine. And realistically, that's what we want to be able to share. We want to share that hospitality. I'll give you an example. We were In Nablus. Nablus is the home of Knafa. Knafa is a very well known Palestinian dessert. Okay. We couldn't go through one of the exits. It was closed off that day. So we didn't know how to exit the town and get back to the highway to go back to our village. So we asked a guy on the side of the road. He was driving a motorcycle. We said, hey, we're trying to get back to the highway to get back to our village. Can you help us out? Can you point us the right direction? I don't know who this person is. If I looked at him again, I won't be able to tell you who he was. He just said, follow me. And what did we do? We followed this guy for 13 minutes on his motorcycle. He just weaved through the town off side roads. We're like, I hope this guy's taking us to the right place right at the highway. So again, like, Palestinians just want to help each other out. The fight that everybody does to pay the bill at the end. It's a very, very generous culture. It's a very, very hospitable culture. Everyone to help each other out. And that's what I want to make sure we anchor to and we focus on, because that's the best part of our culture. We lived in Atlanta for a long, long time. 28 years in Atlanta, away from family, away from people we knew. But we found a community within our Arab and Palestinian community who were also moving to Atlanta as an international city, getting to know each other over the years. My dad passed away. My mom was with me. So what did we do? We closed up shop in Atlanta and moved west to California. And the reason we moved west to California is because the town I bought a house in has 94 people from my mom's side of the family. That's not an estimate. That is not a overblown number. That is a day. We sat and counted the households in this. In this town here, within 15 minutes of my house. So, and that's just my mom's aunts and uncles, my aunt, our cousins, close family members, all from, like, one grandfather. That's so I can send a text for people to come over for dinner. And we did that. You know, Ramadan last year, there was 117 people in my house. And they're not far. These aren't random people. These are just my mom's aunts and uncles, my aunts and uncles, and all the families that come beneath them. So, again, like, that community aspect, you can't buy it. That community aspect is just knowing people have your back. We have drama just like everybody else because we're humans and humans have drama. But at the end of the day, like, when push comes to shove, we stand up for each other, we help each other out, we back each other up, and we support each other.

A (38:56)

Can you just tell us real quick about your mom and her sisters?

D (39:00)

Yeah. So they're. So my mom and my aunts are wonderful people. There's four of them total. So my mom and three aunts. They are all. How do I say this nicely? Like, they're like psycho in the best way.

A (39:16)

We know it well. We know that vibe.

D (39:18)

Like, I love them. They are awesome. They're all over the world. Well, three of them live in California technically now, but my mom's overseas right now with my other aunt. So two are overseas, two are in California. They are very involved. Like, they're, they're family people. They are there to host. These people never have a off button. They are, their battery is always going. Like, one of my aunts had a surgery and like the next week she's up and running and hosting people in her house. Like, you got to slow down, lady. Like, what's happening? And then my aunt overseas, she's helping my aunt and my mom here doing things for, you know, House of Palestine, pcrf. Different non profits we have here. So she's always going. And then my mom and my aunt, who lives five minutes away from me, they're basically the same person. So I moved into a town, brought my mom, and ended up with like, both moms here and my mom's overseas and I got my other aunt telling me what to do. I'm like, I'm in my 30s, man. You can't tell me. But they're, they're, they're both super involved with, you know, the different non profits we have. They were basically the exact same person. They help each other out whenever we joke, like, oh, where's my mom? Oh, she's my aunt. Or they're on the phone together. Or they're, they're working on something. They're cooking something up. Like, they're, they're always on. They are, they are the reason that we are all brainwashed the way we are, like, as their kids. I mean, like, the other picture I keep on my, on my desk is this is from that. The protest that we had. So, so this is me as a kid and there's my mom, like, making sure that we knew who we were and we knew what was Going on.

B (40:43)

What do your signs say in that? I'm interested in, like, timestamping. What are the signs in that photo? This one says that would have been how long ago?

D (40:50)

Yep. Stop the violence against Palestinians. And this picture was 2001, it looks like. Yeah, this is 01. This is stop the violence against the Palestinians. The other one says honk, honk to stop the violence. So, yeah, this was back in 01 that we were doing this. So again, I keep this on my desk. My mom, my aunts are awesome. I love them. They are the reason we stay involved. I literally was on work trips this whole weekend. And we have an event coming up this coming weekend and my aunt's calling me. I got a group chat with my mom. I got my other aunt calling me. It's a network of powerful ladies that again, psycho in the best way. And I love them for it because they just keep going. They just one project to the next project and the next project, and then eventually they crash and fall asleep for a few hours and they get up and do it all over again.

A (41:45)

Thank you for that and thank you for my next memoir title, Psycho and the Best Way. Akram, tell us about. I want to start talking about pcrf. How you all came to this organization, how somebody as brilliant and wise as your mom and fiery as your mom and her sisters end up choosing this organization to be one of the ones that they put their entire hearts and minds behind. What is pcrf? Because it's one of the reasons we are here today.

D (42:17)

Yeah. No, and I really appreciate you letting me talk about PCRF again as a volunteer. And that's what I wanted. When you asked me who would be the right person to talk about this, I wanted to come from a volunteer perspective. Right. I'm just a regular guy on the street that wants to help Palestinian kids. And that again, comes from my mom, my aunts, my dad. You know, this is a. Something we've been a part of for a long time. So PCRF is the Palestine Children's Relief Fund. We've been around for over 30 years now. Started in 1991 for people just wanted to help Palestinian kids. Right? Started off by bringing a kid from Palestine to America for medical treatment. Over time, it's exploded into this great global organization. Staff in Palestine, staff in the United States, chapters all over the country. So the way we got involved is we've been involved with PCRF for 17 years. My mom started off as a volunteer in the Atlanta area. We were part of all the events. My sister was part of the youth committee when she was a kid. We were all part of the different events we had in the Atlanta area. My mom was the president for the Atlanta chapter for a long time as a volunteer. My aunt is the current president for the San Diego chapter for the last several years. I'm actually the president for the LA chapter for la, OC and ie. So it's become like a family business. Right. But at the end of the day, we're all volunteers. My mom since then has started working for the pcrf. But for all of us, it's just been a volunteer project. It's been something that we just wanted to help out. And for us, it started by just going to these events. Right. You know, a kid would come to Atlanta for, you know, burn. Like a burn victim needed to come get treatment here that they couldn't get there. So we'd bring kids to the States, they'd get treatment, host families would host them, and we'd get to talk to these kids from Palestine.

A (43:56)

So was that the main. The main. The main goal of PCRF back then was to. To identify children who had been hurt by the.

D (44:06)

Whatever.

A (44:06)

By anything.

D (44:08)

It could have been anything. We had somebody who was hurt in a olive press accident.

A (44:13)

Okay, Right.

D (44:13)

That one did not have anything to do with, you know, occupation or anything like that. But it was a kid who needed treatment. We couldn't give him treatment, got it, so there. So they brought him here. So Palestine PCRF has both stated goals. It's the treatment abroad part, but also the infrastructure and the help there. So while we were bringing kids to the States, we're also sending doctors over the years for medical missions in Palestine. Whether it's doing missions and treating there or teaching doctors there as well. We've done infrastructure projects where we've refurbished and rebuilt hospitals, medical centers. We've built, you know, the first pediatric cancer unit in Gaza, the first public pediatric oncology and ICU in Bethlehem. Right. Like, there's a lot of projects that have been going on over the years because in 30 years, obviously the need has grown. And that's why I like to say, pay attention when you started paying attention too. Because, yes, we're talking about PCRF now, but we've also been in business for 30. 30 years. Why we needed to be in business for 30 years. Right. It wasn't always only olive press accidents. Like, there's been other things that, you know, whether it's from the occupation or whatever it is. And that's why, again, I wanted to speak from a volunteer perspective, because I See, the kids that come here, we. We get to know these kids, we hear their stories, and that's how we've. We've been involved. But the way I started getting involved, we were just moving chairs for events. Like, we were the hired help, right? Because nonprofit volunteer work requires a lot of hands. So the joke with all of our friends is that we just went to these events to move chairs.

A (45:34)

That's how it starts. That's how they get you.

D (45:36)

A problem is I'm 34 now, still moving chairs. So I haven't grown out of that, apparently. So we used to do events, and it was, like I said, a whole family affair. I'm the oldest of four. My mom was the president for the chapter, so we were at everything. We would host 5Ks in Atlanta, trivia Nights in Atlanta. We would host a gala every year, like a benefit dinner. We'd get involved with the different community, so we'd support other organizations, too. Because Palestine doesn't just need pcrf, it needs everybody working. So whether it's CAIR or any of the other organizations that are also working for the Palestinian cause here and abroad, we want to make sure we supported the others, too, so that nobody was there by themselves. We used to joke, my dad showed up at an event one time. We were there early with my mom setting up. My dad walked in a little bit later, and somebody was like, oh, you didn't want to come with the rest of your family today? He goes, you know what? I donated my whole family to the pcrf. I'm walking in when I get here.

A (46:28)

Fair.

D (46:30)

They're like, okay, that's fair enough. Like, your four kids are over here moving chairs. So again, like, over time, that's how it started. That's how we got involved. And now my brother, who lives in Denver, goes to the Denver events, and he was just in Chicago this weekend running with Team Palestine for PCRF in Chicago. My sister is back in Atlanta. She's involved the Atlanta chapter. So, like, we have been a part of this for a long time because we started as kids because we saw the value. We saw the benefit. My. My parents instilled it into us. Why we can't just help ourselves. We have to help other people. And if we can help other people, let's try to help our people that really need it. Because that was a way to, number one, be generous with our time, our money, our effort. But also, it was being generous, but also keeping us connected to our culture and our land and our. And our background, right? So it was like the best of both worlds. I'm so glad that they got us involved in this because it's opened up the doors for everything else we've been a part of over the years. And now we have chapters all over the country, all over the world, right? We have chapters in Northern California or like the Northwest, you know, down here in Southern California, we have New York, we have Chicago, we have in Texas, we have in Georgia, like there's chapters all over. And actually PCRF is one of the approved charities for the Chicago Marathon. So that's what I wanted to talk about today too, because we just came back, right? Chicago Marathon. Every year we get 80 runners. We've grown over time. So start off with, I think 10 runners that were approved entries. Now we're at 80 this year. So this year we had 80 runners. A lot of them are non Palestinians. People just wanted to help out. And each one of the runners had to raise a certain amount of money for PCRF to be able to run with the team. So I think the final count that I looked at right now was over $161,000 for as a project. And this is all just people running for the Chicago Marathon. So the last six years, I actually gone out to Chicago the weekend they do the marathon and hang out with my friends. Because what we do is we have the 80 runners run. We get them a pasta dinner the night before, we get them all pumped up, we make signs for them and then we bounce around the city during the race and like wave flags and play music and cheer them on because we track them on the app and we're just hanging out like, it's a beautiful, beautiful day. I mean, we were there. I did 20,000 steps on Sunday and I didn't run the marathon. We just bouncing around the city and jumping around. One of our girls who's here for treatment, her name is Jenna, she's 15, from Gaza. Her hand is cut here. Her house got bombed in Gaza. She came here for treatment and she was there jumping around and hanging out. And like this Sweet kid is 15 years old and she is loving seeing, you know, every running past saying like, go Palestine, team Palestine. Because it wasn't just our runners that were supporting us. Hundreds and hundreds of people the entire day were high fiving us, coming and thanking us for being there. And we were just there trying to hype them up. And they're over here coming up to us and thanking us for being there. It was awesome. And again, most of them were non Palestinian. So we told Jenna, like, look, isn't it crazy how much support we have here now? And it was eye opening because everybody just sees the news and sees what's happening. It's like, nobody cares. But no, there are people who care, and this is how we reach them. Through our chapters, through our engagement, through our ability to be in the community and be productive and helpful and just nice people in the community. That's what it comes down to. I will tell you this. Like, my mom told me this when I was 12, and it stuck with me forever. She goes like, you don't just represent your name. Other people get to represent themselves, right? Like, maybe my neighbor, if he does something stupid, they'll be like, okay, John did something stupid. But if A does something stupid, that says something about my last thing, my family, my religion, and my culture. So at the end of the day, and that's a really heavy thing to tell a kid. But it stuck with me, right? Like, I'm an ambassador, not just for myself, not just for my family, but for my culture, my. My people being Palestinian and for Muslims. Because at the end of the day, if I go to an event and I act a fool, somebody's going to say, hey, look at that angry Muslim over there. And I hate to say it like that, and I hate that where the world is, but it's the reality, right? If I go out there and we're at this, you know, Chicago marathon and I start, you know, pushing people around, all of a sudden, look, there's that angry Palestinian, right? So these are things that I had to take on when I was a kid. And now as an adult, I take that very seriously. And I want, you know, the younger kids who are coming up now to also stay involved, whatever that means. Not everybody has money to be involved. Nobody has time to be involved. But everybody can give in their way, whether it is time, money, resources, expertise, a prayer here and there. Like, there has to be something that everybody gives, because over time, you can give more.

A (50:49)

As an aside, I just wonder if this. I was talking to one of my kids recently after I'd just gotten back from a meeting to prepare for Block the Bomb. So it was like, me and I think six or seven mostly Palestinian men. And I got home and my kid said, so how was it? And I said, I think. I don't know. This is like a final frontier for me. I've never organized with these kinds of people. And my kid said, palestinians. And I said, no men. Like I am having. Anyway, I'll talk to you about this another time, Akram, But I. I'm just having such an interesting experience. It's my first experience organizing with men, and it's so different than other experiences that I've had organizing near American men. But anyway, that's another story. So.

D (51:43)

We'Ll table that.

A (51:44)

Yeah, we take that offline. I want to ask you. So right now you're talking to the Pod Squad, which is made up largely of a community of people that my sister and Abby and I have been doing Life with for 20 years. We have always understood that art is a beautiful way to heal yourself, and that it is also an incredible vehicle to create healing in the world. And that when people feel seen and cared for, they end up wanting to see, see and care for wider and wider circles of people. And so, over time, we have collectively, as a community, raised $56 million for Communities all over the world. The average donation has been $27. So this is people. So right now, we are. You're speaking to a group of people who are the ones who care.

D (52:43)

It's amazing.

A (52:45)

And care deeply about children. Children have always sort of been this mountain that this community is willing to die on. And so in terms of the children that PCRF over time has served, the ones who are not being hurt by olive presses. But, I mean, it is true that Palestinian children are the highest. The amount of amputees coming out of Palestine children. Amputees are higher than anywhere else in the world. Is that something that PCRF has seen? And are these children that you all have been healing and serving?

D (53:24)

Yes. So I can give a little bit of background on some of the projects we have, and if anybody wants more information about the projects. PCRF.net has all of our projects, our annual reports. It's actually really cool that PCRF has actually had 12 years straight of top ratings on Charity Navigator, so, you know, four out of four stars. Which is why we like to be involved with them, too, because we like to know that what we're asking people money for is getting to where it needs to go. Because again, as a volunteer, the way we raise money and the way we get these projects funded is I literally go out in the community and we ask people to help support these. These projects. That's what Chicago Marathon was, right? Like, we called it in Amana, like a trust. So in Arabic, it's called Amana. This is like a trust that people are putting in us and people are putting in me. Okay. I know Akram. I trust him that this money is going to get to where it goes. And it's nice to have the backing of Charity Navigator to prove me right. Essentially right. Because I don't take that for granted. I know that thankfully I have a big mouth for this stuff and people have trusted me over the years to put their money behind projects. So PCRF has a lot of different projects ongoing. So the treatment abroad stuff is great. We bring kids to the States, they get medical treatment here, they go back to where they need to go. Right now, nobody can go back to Gaza yet. So a lot of these kids are going back to Egypt, for example, and we're setting them up for a year in Egypt where we're paying for their rent and we're helping them out for a year to kind of get on their feet, and then maybe when the borders open, they're able to go back home to be with the rest of their families. Now, as far as the other projects, so kind of to your point about the amputees that are local. Yes. Gaza is one of the highest recorded number of children amputees in recorded history now. Right. So we have the Gaza Amputee project, and that's actually, I think, what the Chicago Marathon runners were raising money for. The 160k was tagged to that project. Right. We have the Orphan Care project. We have, you know, nutrition that we're bringing to these communities. We have, you know, the hospitals that we're also trying to rebuild there too. So obviously a lot of the hospitals have been hit and a lot of these hospitals, we had wings in those hospitals. Right. Rantisi Hospital was a pediatric hospital that we had work in. There's different cancer units in different places within Gaza that have been hit. So what PCRF tries to do on the ground too, is get operating rooms back online. Maybe we can't renovate the entire hospital yet, but we want to make sure we get these hospital rooms back up and running that not even just PCRF people are able to use, anybody's able to use. Right. That's the thing. There's a lot of organizations working in, in Gaza right now, depending on who can get in, who can get materials in. It's all kind of outside of our control a lot of the time. And that's why when you asked a ceasefire question in the beginning, you know, how do we feel? Like we feel good that things have stopped, but we still don't know what that means yet. Right. Like, PCRF put out a statement. You know, we're, we welcome it. We're, we're obviously happy about it. You know, we've been operating Gaza for over 30 years. But our main goal right now is, like, for these thousands of orphan, maimed and these kids with trauma that we want to make sure that we're able to get these hospitals back up and running as much as possible, restore pediatric initiatives as much as possible, you know, treating that malnutrition as much as possible, and getting the rehab and the psychological support up and running, too. And that's actually one of the things that I care most about too, is the psychological support, because these kids who have gone through, you know, five, six wars now, sometimes if they're, you know, 18, 19, 20 years old, they've seen a lot. Even the younger kids have seen a lot. This last two years is going to change a lot of us here in America. So I can't imagine what it's doing to the people that, that saw it there. Right. So the psychological support is huge, especially for these kids that are orphaned now, for example, or these kids that lost a limb. Like, how do you live now with your new normal, right? If you don't have a leg anymore, how do you live? How do you get by? How do you continue your life if you don't have your parent, one or both, how do you continue? How do you move on? Because you don't move on, but you have to move forward. And we want these kids to be able to try to enjoy their life as a kid, because that's the thing when we talk about kids. I'm so glad your community cares about the kids in general, because we want to have Palestinian kids grow up the same way that other kids get to grow up. I grew up very privileged here in America, in the suburbs of Georgia. I went to baseball practice. I went to soccer practice. My family was awesome. My friends were awesome. I never worried about my roof falling. I never worried about if I didn't have a meal. Like, these are things that I never thought about as a kid. And that's why now, as an adult, we try to make sure we share awareness about what's happening to the kids of Gaza, because these kids deserve the same life that I grew up with. And that's what we're trying to help out with.

B (57:53)

You mentioned the kids that were orphaned. And I have been blown away and heartbroken to learn the actual numbers. And it feels awful to even say a number, because these are human beings and lives and souls and families. But in the wake of the last two years of genocide, 32,132 children have lost their fathers. 4,417 children have lost their mothers. 1,918 children have lost both parents.

D (58:36)

So I gave Glennon those numbers because I wanted to kind of add to it as well. That was the numbers we had when we did a presentation for this, like, at the end of last year, actually.

B (58:46)

Oh, shit.

D (58:47)

Yeah. So those numbers are much higher now, and it's unfortunate. And that's just what we know. So I hate to be dark and I hate to be like the mic drop moment right there, but I gave you those numbers as kind of the lead in right now. I believe the estimates, like, over 40,000. I mean, PCRF is supporting at least 7,000 kids right now, just like through our efforts on the ground in Gaza. So that's why these numbers, again, the numbers that the kids that there are. The cost per kid, too, everything's gone up.

A (59:20)

Right?

D (59:20)

And that's the unfortunate thing. So again, I gave those numbers as a. Here's a teaser because I wanted to kind of bring where it is right now. And this is like, as of September, it's over 7,000 kids that we're working with, the orphan kids in different communities. Right.

A (59:35)

And there's a. There's a. It has become. It is such a crisis. There are so many children who are hurt and have no parents to help them that there's a new term that the Palestinian community and the international community is now using. Tell us what that term is to describe these children.

D (59:58)

Yeah, and actually, when you said that, it gave me chills, like I'm about to say it, right? That term is from Doctors Without Borders, who have been operating in Gaza for the last two years. It's wcnsf. That stands for Wounded Child, no Surviving Family. That phrase didn't really exist before the last two years.

A (60:16)

Wounded Child, no Surviving Family. Wounded child, no Surviving Family. Okay, so that group of children is who we are here for today. That is, those children are who we, as the POD Squad, are going to show up for now in this moment, the children who are wounded children with no surviving family. One of our operating principles is that there is no such thing as other people's children, which means there is, in some sense, surviving family, and that is us. Now is the time that we step in to provide, not saving these kids. Akram. Don't want to be taken out of Gaza. Is that correct? We are not stepping. Stepping in to take them out. We are stepping in to provide funds so that their Palestinian community and doctors can come around and support them. Is that correct?

D (61:17)

Yeah. So one of the biggest things I like to make sure I mention is that again, PCRF does not relocate these kids, nor do we want to relocate these kids. At the end of the day, even the kids that come here for treatment are kids that eventually want them to go back to Palestine. Because, again, this is now Akram's opinion, and a lot of Palestinians agree with me. We want Palestinians to stay in Palestine. The more you take out, the easier it is to be like, this land is open. Let's move in. So it's. It's really frustrating that a phrase like that exists. Wounded child, no surviving family. And what's even more crazy than we've ever seen before is in years past, because, again, we've been through this before. 2021, there was a war in Gaza. 2018, 24, like, there's been. This has been ongoing for the last 20 years, right? When somebody loses their. Their parents before there was enough family around that, you know, the family would take them in right away. Because, again, Palestinians, one thing we do is we reproduce a lot.

A (62:13)

You teach life.

D (62:15)

I'm one of 30 cousins on one side. I'm one of 30 cousins on the other side. My cousins on one side have kids. My aunt has nine kids. I mean, we. We have a. We reproduce. We. It's great. I love big families. Sorry, that's. I'm not trying to make a light of a tough situation, but that's how we. That's how we do it. In the past, there was never a need for people to even bring up adoption, right? Like, adoption wasn't like a common thing within the Gaza community, the Palestinian community, because at the end of the day, remember, I wanted the kids to keep their last name, keep their identity, and they had their family there. Their uncle would take them in, their aunt would take them in, their grandparents would take. Take them in. Now, in this current situation, maybe a whole bloodline is gone, right? And the craziest thing is, you know, we've been reading stories of these kids who get brought to the hospital, and they're trying to find out who. Who knows this kid, who's related to this kid, and they can't find anybody. So that's. That's the crazy thing with, you know, big families like this. They can't find a relative. So a lot of things. A lot of times what PCRF is doing is supporting the communities that have orphans within the community, right? So it's not like we're finding, you know, this kid right here. We're gonna sponsor this kid. We're sponsoring these communities that are helping provide care for. Maybe they have multiple orphans in their community. That need food, medication, medical treatment, mental health support. So that helps bring the resources. It also helps, you know, take care of our staff that are, that are there because again, I'm a volunteer, but we have staff that works for PCRF that need to be able to continue to live. Things are expensive in Gaza right now because again, trucks are getting in. Not everything's getting in. So supply is still scarce throughout the entire strip. So, so yes, that's who we're trying to help. We're trying to help the kids in Gaza so they stay in Gaza. You know, one of, one of our recent posts on our, on our Instagram on the pcrf, you know, there's a pilot in camp right now where there's 91 orphans for them and like if they have a family member that they're living within this camp and they're getting orphan support from PCRF in like a specific camp too. So there's a lot of really good that's happening. It's unfortunate that it has to happen. But thankfully we have the teams in place that are able to help support these kids and support the communities so that it's not also a drain on the community too. Because right now it's a tough time for everybody in Gaza. Like they're, they don't know what's next, right? Like they don't know, they don't know some. I was talking to a guy on, on Sunday. He's, he's from Gaza. He was in Chicago with us. He was. One of the simplest things that we don't know right now is where one person's land starts and one person lands ended because it's been, it's been like mowed down. So these are just, these are basic things that the communities have to figure out. So we want to help these communities with at least one part of it where we can help the kids that happen to be with them in the communities while they figure out how to get back to living in like a structured society that they just haven't been able to for the last two years.

A (65:02)

And now it's time for our ads.

B (65:07)

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A (68:22)

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B (70:00)

The ceasefire is a welcome reprieve and also it is unclear whether the ceasefire will hold. It is also a huge open question whether it is consistent with the end goals of a liberated and dignified Palestine. But can you talk to us about pcrf, how you have operated during the war? Because if I'm listening to this, this is going to go up to our people in a couple weeks. I want people to understand about your operations both if the ceasefire holds and if it doesn't. Like how you, how you get to the kids. I know you're, you're seriously embedded and have been doing work throughout the bombings. So I guess how does it work either way in those instances to be prepared for.

D (70:56)

I think it doesn't change anything. So the way I look at this is like ceasefire is a point on the timeline. The timeline's continuing, right? So before ceasefire, after ceasefire, PCRF was doing work and we just continue that work now if ceasefire holds and we're able to get the people and the resources in, that's gonna make the relief work easier to take care of, if that makes sense. So Realistically, before the ceasefire, it was hard to get things in, it was hard to get resources in, it was hard to buy locally, it was hard to do all these things, it was hard to rebuild. But the Palestinians just find a way to do it. And that's the beautiful thing about the Palestinians. They just figure it out. If they don't have the resources, they'll MacGyver something and it'll be put together, right? And they'll laugh through it. Like, I'm watching videos from Gaza, people still having weddings. I'm watching, like there is, there's videos of these guys getting ready for their weddings and then going on a honeymoon in the next row of tents. And my mom's like, you can't even get married. And you got these guys living in Gaza and they're, they're over here having weddings. Like, what's happening? I'm getting roasted by my mom using like Gaza as like the benchmark, which again, like, we, we, we just like to live. And my mom is a very sweet lady who wants to roast me, so it's fine. But again, I say that in a sense that like, we laugh through it, we work through it. It's very, very stressful. It's, it's not normal. Let me put it this way, in a quick story of why it's not normal. So we were in Chicago for the Chicago marathon. We're there with Jenna. Jenna's 15. While we're there, we're thinking through all this. We're like, we're jumping around in the streets enjoying our time. And then it hits us why we're jumping around the streets enjoying our time because we want to raise money and raise awareness from Palestine. Number one thing, that's not normal, right? Like we're literally raising money for kids who are, who are amputees. But we're over here dancing and laughing and singing and we're like flexing between the two. Couple hours later, the news came out about the journalist Sal Hajafarawi. He was killed. He was one of the most well known journalists that was in everybody's face like a smiley guy, just cheering people up and singing songs and trying to keep people upbeat and happy. And he was one of the ones in one of the videos I used to share all the time of Sofa Napko Hana, which means we're going to stay here. So he continued to post things like that to cheer people up around him. He continued to report. And then on Sunday, news came out that he was killed in Gaza. The second Jenna, the 15 year old saw that news, she broke down crying because again, she's 15 and she's hearing the Gaza stories the same way we're hearing them through the social media, through the faces that we've gotten to know, right? Like a lot of people have, you know, have, you know, died in Gaza over the last two years. But it's the faces that you continuously see that it's different, right? Like there's certain names, there's certain faces, like, man, this was a constant part of my life for two years and now this happened. So she's here with her aunt and her aunt looked at me, she goes, hey, can you go cheer her up? So then I'm going to sit next to Jenna, she's crying on the curb and just doesn't want to talk to anybody. And I'm over here cheering up a 15 year old who's there with an amputated hand who's crying about a journalist who died in Gaza. And now I'm trying to cheer her up using jokes about again, she was like, yeah, the day of your wedding, I'm going to be sitting on the stage with you and your wife and like joking around about my wedding in the future eventually. So, like, this is not normal, right? Like it's not normal for a 15 year old to see that start crying. We try to cheer her up, but in the back of our minds we know this is still happening and we know that that just happened, but we're trying to like give these kids a normal life. So no part of this is normal. No part of this is something we prepared for as a volunteer and I'm sure the staff would say the same way, like, this is different. This is uncharted territories, unprecedented waters, whatever we want to call it. So to answer your question really directly, Amanda, the ceasefire is welcome. It's great, it's awesome. But everything is continuing the way it was. So if we have more access, obviously the organization will get more in. If we're able to get more people in, we'll get them, we'll get more people in. But just like before Ceasefire, we were working through it and doing our best and trying to live our lives. We are going to continue trying to live our lives, teaching life, enjoying our time, joking, laughing, dancing, singing, all with the background in our mind that we know what's happening is still happening. And all while we know too that ceasefire in Gaza doesn't mean that this is the end of it all anyways. So we all have to stay involved, we all have to stay focused and motivated. Because there are kids in the west bank, too, that also need help. Right. There's kids all over Palestine, all over the world. So, again, I know we're talking about Gaza right now because it is the. The most important thing that we're working on. But at the end of the day, we can't forget the rest of the Palestinian kids or the kids all over. Right. Like every kid deserves to have a life, deserves to have treatment, access to care, access to school, access to a regular child's life. That the ceasefire then will hopefully start paving the way for that. But whether it does or not, we as Palestinians are going to continue for, like, forging our way to that, if that makes sense.

B (76:05)

Well, I can attest to our own experience with that because our nonprofit Together Rising has been involved with PCRF since 2021. We provided a $100,000 grant in 2021 and then a $50,000 grant in July 2023. And it was during 2021 when there was a. Israel had a bombardment of the west bank and there were 67 Palestinian kids killed in that and so many maimed. And it was active bombardment. But. But PCRF was going in during that period with the funds and helping these kids. So I know that they make a way when there is not a way. And God willing, the ceasefire will hold. And if it does not, I know y' all will be there regardless.

A (77:02)

And as an organization that has over 20 years provided funds to get the communities the help they need, I know that it is extremely hard to get into Palestine because it's an occupied territory. But also, it's always hard. It's always hard to get funds into places where they're needed, especially when they're controlled by other places. And I have never in 20 years heard such a bombardment of kind of an. A talking point of don't do it because it won't matter. Don't do it. Doesn't matter. Don't do it. Won't matter. You can't get. They can't get it. They can't get it. It's not entirely true. And I'm suspicious of it because it feels like. It feels to me like a talking point from the another side that is meant to create apathy or hopelessness so that people who usually show up for places where it's hard to find a way to do not show up just wanted to say that. Go ahead, Akram.

D (78:11)

You're 100% right.

A (78:13)

Okay.

D (78:14)

It's the scariest thing somebody can say is, I can't. Like, what can I Do that would be enough, or I can't do enough to make a difference or what is this going to help? At the end of the day, every little bit matters, to be honest, because whether somebody has $5 or $500, whether somebody has time to speak or can only do silent prayer, at the end of the day, it all matters because ultimately we're trying to increase our range. So raising money is awesome. I love raising awareness because here's the unfortunate thing. PCRF raised money, raised a lot of money over the years, but the spikes in money come when Gaza is getting bombed, right? And it's. We joke around like, man, we're really good at fundraising, but also Gaza kind of does it for us, right? 20, 21, Gaza was getting hit. You know, donations increased, obviously, the last two years as people have learned about what's going on, people are looking for reputable organizations to support. Donations have increased. The biggest thing that I worry about is what happens tomorrow. Yeah, right. I worry about, you know, ceasefire. The only thing I worry about ceasefire is people to see. Oh, ceasefire. We did our part. We're all done, right? Mission accomplished. Right, Right. When realistically, ceasefire, like I said in the beginning, is the beginning. Yeah, right. At the end of the day, if somebody gives $5, now they're involved with PCRF, for example, and they are going to be getting a newsletter of ongoing projects that are happening in the future if they've been to a different event. I mean, I did an event last year for a group that was raising money for girls scholarships in Palestine to stay in Palestine. So we were raising money to keep these girls educated and then working in Palestinian cities, Palestinian towns, to make sure that we're continuing to elevate the level of education, the. Elevate the level of professionalism in Palestine as well. Palestine is already one of the highest per capita that. One of the highest per capita educated populations in the world. And we want to keep that going. So even with the bombardment of Gaza, these kids are still going to school. Right? Even with the west bank restrictions and movement checkpoints, people are still finding a way to go to college. People are finding a way to go to school. So we want to make sure that their work is not in vain or their. Their lifestyle is not in vain, which is why I spent all my time talking about this. And it's again, eventually I'll be able to just talk about dancing and singing and music and food. But until then, we're going to keep Palestine on the top of people's minds so that ceasefire does not become the end. Because we want to continue this, this effort, we want to continue this energy, we want to continue this trend that we don't become just a passing trend. Palestine does affect all of us, whether people know it or not, whether it's through our tax dollars or not. Like Palestine does affect all of us. People want to help the kids, people want to help the adults. People want to help culturally, economically, politically. There's so many ways for people to get involved. Again, I'm here to talk about my involvement humanitarian wise. But there's always something for somebody. So again, I never want somebody to say whatever I do is not going to be enough. Because that one person might tell one person at dinner that they supported the pcrf and that person might tell the next person might tell the next person. It becomes the domino effect that we've been working on for the last 25 years. Because before it was Palestinians in a vacuum with just a couple people here and there. Now I'm over here in the streets of Chicago high fiving strangers and people are coming up asking me to take a picture because I had a big flag with me like, hey, can I take a picture with you? Like, I was a celebrity, right? I felt like Abby Wambak here. I'm over here with a flag and people come like, hey, can I take a picture with you? And I got friends telling me, hey, I saw your picture on some random Instagram page. I'm just full with a 6x4 flag walking on the streets of Chicago that I put on a big shower rod that I could walk around with. Because again, I want that to be, you know, my legacy when it comes to the Palestinian causes. I want that to be something that doesn't die with me, that we then get the next generation involved. The, the 18 year olds, the kids that are in college right now who are going to take this forward because eventually the people who still agree with the opposite side or still agree with, you know what's happening to the Palestinians over time. You can't hide what's happening. So people are all starting to wake up and that's what we're here for.

A (82:36)

That's right. So what do we do? I as after everyone follows you on Instagram and we'll leave all this information for people to find the organization and start learning and learning and learning. In the meantime, today we are going to show up financially for the children who are wounded now and have no surviving family. Tell us a little bit. Speak directly to the POD squad about what their funds that they give we Actually, this particular community you're speaking to right now, a couple of months ago, we had Dr. Thayer Ahmad on our podcast. He spoke about the needs for the healers, the doctors and nurses in Palestine. And the POD Squad showed up in such a big way. I think they raised 383. So this is a community that moves. We have shown up for the Palestinian healers. Today we are showing up for the Palestinian children, the ones who are wounded and have no surviving family. What can the POD Squad do? What can they give and what will. Where can they give and what will the money do?

D (83:50)

We have, you know, the Gaza Orphan sponsorship program that I was mentioning, kind of in passing through the different points, but kind of to be very specific and clear about it, we support these communities that have orphans there. So the wounded child, no surviving family, or just children who are in these communities. We want to provide funds to these communities to help support these children with medical needs they need, with nutrition that they need some. We have infant support that we provide as well, eyeglasses for kids that need eyeglasses, and really the mental health support, too. So this money that we raise for the orphan sponsorship program is directly so that our staff can shop locally and keep providing things for our communities. It also helps provide for our staff. It's very directly, you know, focused on the project for these orphaned kids in Razza, which is a community that we really don't want to forget, and we don't want them to get lost or passed over or not have this life as a kid that I grew up with. So that is the. The way we can help today is we'll have a link. We'll have a link specifically for this podcast so we can see how much this community is able to come together. And realistically, we just want to help these kids as much as we can. And then over time, little by little, Whether it's the $5 or the $50, it all adds up. It all means something. I also encourage everybody to check out at the pcrf on Instagram, pcrf.net on online. We have all of our projects online. We like to make sure that we are transparent. We provide our operational reports, our annual reports, where the money's going. So after this podcast, if you want to continue supporting PCR up, if you want to learn more about it, we have so much going on, which is a blessing and a curse, right? Because we have so much going on because it's needed, but the curse is that it's needed. So eventually we want to continue providing this help for these Kids that truly need it, because it doesn't end just the ceasefire, it doesn't end tomorrow when everything falls. We have to continue supporting these kids through mental health work, through doctors that we can hopefully get in here in the future, through the hospitals that we're going to try to renovate and rebuild and then expanded throughout the west bank and beyond.

C (85:50)

And I just want to say this one thing, because this is something that our family has decided to do, that we are trying to utilize things that are Palestinian made and exports of Palestine in our daily life. So all of the olive oil we eat now in our family, Palestinian olive oil. And if you've not tasted Palestinian olive oil, you need to go to the store right now. And so what are some other ideas like that that are like Palestinian exports that people can kind of input into their daily life, things that we're already using that we can just support the Palestinian community around?

D (86:31)

Sure. I mean, number one, I love that you love the olive oil. Let me tell you this. My mom's not coming back from Palestine until the end of November because my grandfather won't leave his home until all the olives are off the tree. Because we have, we have our own olive trees too. So he makes olive oil and he won't leave before the last olive is down. So this is a, it is a deep rooted piece of Palestinian culture is the olive trees. It's the olive oil. We use the olive tree as a symbol of Palestinian people because they're so rooted in the ground.

B (87:02)

Oh, damn.

C (87:04)

So good.

D (87:06)

One of the rules my grandfather has is we don't sell land. Like, that's, that's how valuable it is. My, my grandfather is 82 years old. He's a little tired. He's, he's older. But when he's talking about land, that guy all of a sudden is up straight. He's got a loud voice like, man, where did this come from? Like, what is happening? You were just asleep a second ago. But no, when it comes to the land, when it comes to the olive trees, that is the most important thing for us because it is our connection to the land. And that's why it's so frustrating when we see online these olive trees getting burned or uprooted because a Palestinian would never uproot olive trees. Because that is, it's a source of our economy, it's a source of our culture. It is truly a symbol of our deep rooted place on the, on the land.

C (87:47)

So beautiful.

D (87:48)

I had to say that because you brought the olive oil and we have, I'M part of a depka group, a Palestinian dance group called Zaytuna, which Zaytuna means olive tree. Like it's a zetuna is an olive and we call like, like the olive tree. So we are rooted, we are teaching the roots for these kids. So it is a very big symbol of our Palestinian culture. So thank you for letting me rant for about olives for a second.

A (88:10)

Yeah.

D (88:11)

But otherwise, honestly, the best way to support, you know, different Palestinian exports and things is to follow and elevate Palestinian voices, right? Like, like my friend Jinan Matari. She wrote this book, Everything Grows in Jiddah's Garden. It's a children's book. It's a, it's an awesome book. It's supporting a Palestinian author, a Palestinian creator, and helping us get our voices out to the world. So everything grows in Jeddah's garden means everything grows in grandfather's garden in Arabic. So she wrote this book, right? We have different, you know, clothing companies, merch companies. We want to support these Palestinian businesses. If you're in certain towns and areas, we go into these Palestinian pockets, right? Like Chicago has Bridgeview, Illinois, we go support Palestinian businesses. When you want to go eat, you know, go find a Palestinian owned restaurant. And if you ever need recommendations or, you know, if your community is looking for recommendations for restaurants in different communities, we can provide those. Right. So we want to make sure that we are letting these businesses stay in business because we want to support the people who are willing to speak up and lead from the front as a business too. Right. There's been, there's been a lot of businesses who have got a lot of heat over the last couple of years, are speaking out or posting on social media about things, Palestinian and non Palestinian, who just want to speak up and be a part of the change. So we want to make sure we support those businesses. When you do buy from a Palestinian business, leave them a good review, right. If it's not a great service, don't leave a bad review. Just don't leave a review at all.

A (89:40)

Exactly.

D (89:41)

But realistically, right, like I, I try to help, you know, our friends, businesses, our family's businesses so we can continue to elevate these voices. Voices. Because for a long, long time, and I'll say it like this, my father came to America. They were all heads down. Let's provide for our family. Let's learn this language, let's learn this culture. They didn't know what they were doing. My mom was 19, 20 years old. She was a first time mom. With me, she was figuring it out as she go. My mom was feeding me shrimp and I was getting sick and didn't realize it might be a allergy to shrimp. And I worked my way through it. She's like, well, you did, you survived, didn't you? Like, that was how they figured it out back in the early 90s. Now as we've gone past, like my parents generation who laid the groundwork for us, built the foundation, helped us go to school, helped us open businesses, helped us be successful, whether it's corporate America, whether it's their own businesses, now that we have the foundation now it's on us to help take it to the next level. So now again, my dad's generation was, I'm going to grind it out. I'm going to do whatever I can for my family to have a good life because we can get an education and opportunity here that we couldn't back there at the time. So now that I don't take that for granted, now I want to make sure that we're elevating these other businesses, these other voices, creators, musicians, restaurants, groceries, whatever it is, to make sure that the next generation continues to hear about Palestine. Because I came knowing the language, I went to school here. I got to start up a step ahead before my dad. So now it'd be a real waste if I did not take advantage of that opportunity.

C (91:10)

Beautiful.

A (91:11)

Well, for today, I'm going to ask you actually to send me a few links of Palestinian businesses that people all over the country might be able to access so that we can get that out to people. And for today, POD Squad, if you would like to support the communities who are supporting these babies who have lost their health and their homes and their families. If you would like to argue with the alleged claim that these kids have no surviving family, if you would like to suggest that you in fact might be part of their surviving family, if you do believe that there's no such thing as other people's children, which would mean that the Palestinian children are in fact our children and you would like to, to support them, please give at the link that we will provide to you. Every penny of that will go to PCRF. Abby and I will be matching up to $100,000 of that. Personally, I probably should have run that by Abby first. Is that fun? Yeah. So go, go, go. Let us prove together what we always have, which is that we belong to each other, that we can do hard things, and that the only thing we cannot do is believe that there is nothing that we can do we do what we can do and we can do this today. Akram, we just love you. Most importantly, can you send me that shirt?

C (92:40)

Yeah.

D (92:40)

Yes.

A (92:41)

Okay.

D (92:41)

Hold on.

C (92:43)

Most importantly, I love that shirt.

B (92:44)

I also just want to say, when we say the link provided, we will put it everywhere. If you are listening to this on audio, we will put it in the show notes below. So just look in the description. The link will be there. If you're watching on YouTube, the link will be on YouTube or the link will be on, I should say. And the link will be on each of our social platforms so you can find it any of those places.

D (93:12)

Can I just say one thing?

A (93:13)

You can say whatever you want. Forever.

D (93:15)

Okay. So, number one, you. Y' all are amazing. Thank you for being such amazing people. Thank you for being so generous. Thank you just for having me on today. Because, number one, I love talking to you and y' all are way too generous and way too nice and I'm glad there are people who care. So I really do appreciate that and I appreciate your community. But one thing I want to leave with is something that we talked about when we were at your house that I want to make sure your community knows too. Everything is tough right now. I know it seems really dark. I know we talked about these really heavy topics today. Wounded child. No. Surviving family is not a normal phrase to say. Going back and forth between living your life and going to see what's on Instagram is not normal. But at the end of the day, if you're feeling down, don't let that swallow you up. Still go to brunch. We talked about this together. Glennon was like, like, going to brunch doesn't feel right right now. At the end of the day, I still need everybody to go do that thing that they love.

C (94:14)

Right?

D (94:14)

You know, like for me, it's like the Palestinian community is my fun stuff. It's. It's fun for me. I love teaching the dance, the culture, the food and all that. I also coach athletes on the side. Right? Like that for me is fun. That for me keeps me going. It doesn't feel right sometimes going, how am I coaching a 16 year old who's trying to go play soccer at, you know, some D1 school? But also in my phone, I have, you know, I'm seeing what's happening in Palestine. But at the end of the day, if I let myself get swallowed up by the dark stuff, then I can't help out the way that I know I need to help out my contribution. I'm not a Doctor, I don't have a ton of money. My contribution is I can tell stories, and I go to Palestine and I come back with more stories, right? So I want everybody to be able to do their thing. If their thing is go to brunch, if their thing is to go to the beach, if the thing is to hang out with their dog, with their family, with their kids, with their friends, don't let the heavy stuff take you away from doing the stuff that you love, because then you'll just stay in this dark corner by yourself, and that's not good for yourself, number one. But then you're not as helpful for the causes that we're trying to help out, too, because, again, this is a marathon. I've had people tell me over the last two years, like, man, this is taking a long time. We've been protesting, we've been raising money. What's going on? Is this not over? I'm like, man, we've been in this a long time. It didn't start yesterday, so it's not going to end tomorrow. What it's going to take is all of us collectively continuing to raise each other up, help each other out, back each other up, and. And really take the Palestinian cause and the Palestinian message to the world. And that only happens if everybody has that thing in their life that helps them do that. So if that thing is brunch, go to brunch. So, Glennon, as a Palestinian, I'm telling you, please go to brunch and enjoy your brunch.

C (95:55)

I love it.

A (95:56)

Okay. But I will be bringing my olive oil.

B (95:58)

Yes.

D (95:59)

Great.

A (95:59)

Yeah.

D (96:01)

We are. We are such a people that love our olive oil. Again, House of Palestine, down here in San Diego, we bring it straight from Palestine. So that's the one that I brought to your house. Like, literally, we know the olive trees that it came from. So we. We. We love our olives. We love our land. We just love sharing it with everybody. So hopefully I can keep sharing with you all, too.

A (96:20)

Okay, POD Squad, go to the link. Let us show up for each other. Thank you so much. You are so wonderful. Thank you for this time. Thank you for the work that you do in the world, and thank you for being our friend. And POD Squad, we will see you next time. Bye. We Can Do Hard Things is an independent production podcast brought to you by Treat Media. Treat Media makes art for humans who want to stay human. And you can follow us. We can do hard things on Instagram, and we can do hard things show on TikTok.