Liz Gilbert on Loving Without Losing Yourself - We Can Do Hard Things

Podcast Summary: We Can Do Hard Things

Episode: Liz Gilbert on Loving Without Losing Yourself
Hosts: Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, Amanda Doyle
Guest: Elizabeth Gilbert
Date: September 11, 2025

Overview

In this heartfelt and vulnerable episode, Elizabeth Gilbert joins Glennon Doyle to explore the complexities of loving someone deeply without sacrificing your own identity. Drawing from her relationship with Raya Elias, their shared journey through illness and codependency, and her recovery from love and sex addiction, Liz discusses how caring for someone else can edge dangerously close to losing self, and how the path back requires courage, honesty, and a reordering of one’s spiritual priorities. This conversation is a masterclass in boundaries, radical self-honesty, surrendering control, and discovering a higher source of love that never runs dry.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Trap of Codependency and Losing Self in Service

Codependency Cycle: Liz reflects on how in love and sex addiction, she would "abdicate my power" and make someone else her entire universe, ignoring her own needs and divinity.
- “I take the teeny, tiny, but incredibly sacred margin of power that I have over my life, and I hand it to you. And I'm like, now you’re in power over me. I’m giving you this.” — Liz Gilbert [03:20]
The Martyr Complex: Liz describes how over-giving, even for noble reasons like caring for a dying partner, ultimately led to degradation of her own sacredness.
- “I wrote a love song for Raya…I say, ‘I’m trying to give you a home. My body and my life are your own.’ …Honey, you can’t be somebody’s home. My body and life are my own that were given to me by God…not to be given to anyone under any circumstances for them to make into their home.” — Liz Gilbert [09:19]
Difference Between Service and Servitude:
- “That’s not service. Because that’s servitude.” — Liz Gilbert [09:56]
- Glennon notes that giving to get something in return (validation, gratitude) ultimately leads to resentment: “That sort of giving always ends in anger, right?” — Glennon Doyle [10:35]
- Liz: “Only. Always. Only 100%… martyring, mothering, managing always leads to rage.” [10:39]

2. Addiction, Power, and Learning to Put Self First

Liz unpacks how love addiction flips a natural spiritual hierarchy: the beloved comes first, she comes second, and the divine comes last (if at all).
- “Recovery looks like you turn that around…God is first...then you come second and then other people are last, which is shocking to even say.” — Liz Gilbert [06:31]
The culture reinforces self-sacrifice, especially for women, making it difficult to recognize when it’s unhealthy.

3. Self-Reliance, Childhood Roots, and Resistance to Self-Care

Liz shares how her family system overemphasized self-reliance, leaving her feeling alone—and prompting a lifelong quest to make others “her home.”
- “My mother…probably her biggest fear would be to raise a child who is dependent upon anybody for anything…So my system reacted to that [self-reliance] as: I am alone and no one will ever help me. And who’s got me?” — Liz Gilbert [21:53]
The resistance to self-care in recovery:
- “When I came into the rooms...the solution...was, ‘you're going to need to learn how to take care of yourself’ and I was like, no thank you. I have been told that since the day I was born, and I want somebody to take care of me.” — Liz Gilbert [21:17]

4. The Power of Boundaries and Trusting Others

Sponsors in recovery and therapists repeatedly challenge Liz’s deeply held belief that she’s responsible for everyone:
- Therapist: “Are you aware that people can take responsibility for their own lives?”
  Liz: “No…I have no experience with seeing this.” [18:45]
The practice of repeating: “I have complete faith in your ability to solve your own life,” both for others and for herself.
- “It gives them back...the most respectful thing you could do.” — Liz Gilbert [30:40], [44:11]
Liz and Glennon laugh about how codependents would “run themselves to death” searching for someone to rescue if told a suffering person was in the room.
- “How you kill a codependent: You put them in a round, empty, windowless room and you tell them there's someone sitting in the corner who's suffering, who needs their help. And then you watch them run themselves to death trying to find it.” — Liz Gilbert [13:30]

5. The Gift (and Cost) of Giving Up the “One Thing”

Addiction is “giving up everything for one thing,” while recovery is “giving up one thing for everything.”
- Glennon Doyle: “Addiction is giving up everything for one thing.” [24:19]
- Liz Gilbert: “Yes…what I've gotten back is this vast landscape of so many other things. Like, my creativity has bloomed…My friendships have blossomed.” [24:29]

6. Freedom Through Spiritual Surrender

Recovery requires turning to a higher power—the "thing that does not run dry"—to fill the existential emptiness.
- “It’s the everything. It's what the yogis would call the Atman. It’s the dao. It’s the way. It's the thing that cannot be extinguished...I need to go to a source that does not run dry. And that is not me and that is not you. But it is in us and we are of it.” — Liz Gilbert [35:37]
God/Higher Power is framed not dogmatically, but as anything beyond self, the natural intelligence and love that made the world.
Liz describes the spiritual “switch” from living through self and others to trusting something bigger:
- “There’s door A, which is everything I've ever done. And I know how that ends…And then there’s door B, which is this big giant question mark on it that just says God. You go through door B, you have no idea what you’re going to get. But aren’t you slightly curious?” — Liz Gilbert [41:55]

7. Letting Others (and Yourself) Stand on Their Own

Liz movingly shares that when Raya passed away, she eventually stopped feeling her guiding presence:
- “I must be standing on my own two feet because you’re leaving. Right. You know that I can do this now.” [43:23]
The highest respect is to trust someone, including yourself, to govern their own life.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“I abdicate my power...That tiny little margin of power, control, and will that I have been given, it's essential that I use it well...”
— Liz Gilbert [03:20]
“After all I did for you, I spent like years after Raya died, like alternating between this tremendous grief at having lost her and this tremendous rage at what she took…without gratitude. Right. Where's my thanks? I almost died for you. Where's my thanks?”
— Liz Gilbert [10:45]
"You can’t be somebody’s home…My body and life are my own that were given to me by God..."
— Liz Gilbert [09:21]
"Addiction is giving up everything for one thing…And what you're doing here is you're giving up one thing for everything."
— Glennon Doyle [24:19]
“I have complete faith in your ability to solve your own life.”
— Liz Gilbert [30:40]
“When you come to me [God], I want you to come to me without a thought in your mind that there might have been something else I could have tried…when you've had enough and you're still exhausted and hungry and empty and lonely, come to me and let me show you what I have for you…”
— Liz Gilbert [40:40]
“Is there any higher honor that you can give to somebody than to trust them completely with their own life?”
— Liz Gilbert [44:12]

Important Timestamps

[03:20]–[07:19]: Liz breaks down how love addiction and codependency erode self, and how she handed her power over in her relationship with Raya.
[10:39]: Discussion on how martyrdom and codependency end in anger and rage.
[13:30]: The “codependent dog whistle” story: a codependent’s urge to rescue anyone who’s suffering.
[18:45]: Therapy stories: confronting the belief that others must be saved.
[21:53]: The root of Liz’s relationship to self-reliance and dependency from childhood.
[24:19]: “Addiction is giving up everything for one thing; now giving up one thing for everything.”
[30:40]: Practicing the mantra: “I have complete faith in your ability to solve your own life.”
[35:37]: What people in recovery are really finding: redefining God/higher power as a limitless source.
[41:55]–[44:47]: Liz reflects on losing Raya's presence and learning to trust in her own power.
[46:25]: Glennon’s story of naming her boat “Rhea,” symbolizing wild self-determination and honoring Raya.

Tone & Language

The episode is soulful, honest, raw, full of practical wisdom and hard-earned truths. Glennon and Liz’s rapport allows for confessions, laughter, mutual admiration, and, most importantly, the modeling of spiritual and emotional self-respect. The language alternates between deeply personal storytelling and universally applicable guidance, with memorable metaphors and compassionate humor throughout.

In Summary

This episode is an essential listen or read for anyone struggling with boundaries, codependency, or the temptation to rescue others at the expense of self. Liz Gilbert’s journey from losing herself in love to finding freedom in spiritual surrender is both a cautionary tale and a beacon of hope—reminding us that true service must always begin with honoring our own sacredness, and that the most loving act is to trust others, and ourselves, to walk their own path.

Transcript

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Glennon Doyle (2:18)

Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. If you haven't yet listened to Tuesday's gorgeous Part one conversation with our beloved friend Liz Gilbert, trust me, go back and start there. Because today we're going to keep going deeper into Liz's relationship with Rhea, into the tender, messy, miraculous place where caring for someone else can push hard against the need to care for yourself. We talk about the quiet traps of codependency, the heartbreak of giving away all of your power, and the freedom that comes when you turn to a higher voice for guidance. Thank you Liz for this gift. For your honesty for your heart, your courage, and for sharing with us the story of you and Raya. Let's jump back in. Okay. Say God is speaking. How would God describe your part in creating. How does a love addict and a sex addict create the very trauma and drama that they are saying is ruining their life?

Liz Gilbert (3:20)

I abdicate my power. So I want to talk about the word power. So one of the most beautiful things I ever heard anybody in recovery say was, I love this. She said, I am loved beyond measure by a high. By a God who has given me power over practically nothing. Let me say it again. I am loved beyond measure by a God who has given me power over practically nothing. But that tiny little margin of power, control, and will that I have been given, it's essential that I use it well and that I use it only in sacred and good ways. Not good in a moralistic way, but toward the creation of light, right? It's tiny, tiny, tiny little measure of control that I have, right? So what I do in my addiction is I take the teeny, tiny, but incredibly sacred margin of power that I have over my life, and I hand it to you. And I'm like, now you're in power over me. I'm giving you this. You have all the power over me now. So now my focus is entirely on you. When whatever you want, I will serve. Whatever you say I will do, right? So. And voluntarily. I mean, I remember the tremendous, strange, almost like this is probably what heroin feels like feeling that I had when I left my marriage and I came to be with Raya and she was dying, and I was like, my purpose in life is so clear now. My only job is to serve her every need, right? And this relief of, like, I don't have to think, I don't have to feel, I don't have to make decisions. This incredibly powerful person is dying, and I am her servant. And. And no one would begrudge me for giving her everything and doing everything for her because she has such a very, very, very short time to live, right? And God was like, perfect story. We're not going to make it such a short time, because I want you to see what happens when you do that, even for a short time. Because I was like, well, I can give all my power to somebody who's only got six months to live. And God's like, yeah, I'm going to let her live a little while longer so that you can see the same thing will happen. As always happens. You will have a complete and utter degradation of your sacredness, right? So What I can't do is anything like that, you know, I can't do anything like that. So a way I've seen it described as a sort of chart is that love addiction and codependency is this reversal of the natural and healthy and sacred order of things. So what it looks like is that I, let's say I'm love addicted to you. I make you the most important thing in the entire universe. I come second and divinity and sacredness are last. They don't even exist anymore. It's just me and you. There is no rest of the world, which is what I always wanted in my life. It's like, let's just go into a bedroom, shut the door, turn off all the phones and there is no world. There is no world, there is no universe. There is nothing but you. And I'm going to dive into and eat, pray, love. I even described it as diving into someone the way like a circus high diver in a cartoon dives off a high dive into a small glass of water. I'm just going to pour disc and dive into you completely so that I do not have to be and I do not have to feel and I do not have to suffer, right? So recovery looks like you turn that around where it's like divinity is first, like God is first. Honoring the sacred is first. Turning your will and your life over to the care of a higher power. Finding that, listening to that, getting guidance from that, anchoring yourself in that your day begins there. Every minute of uncertainty, you're like, you look, you look above and within, like, what is the right action here? How can I be of service? What do you want me to do? And then, and then you come second and then other people are last, which is shocking to even say.