Menopause: W.T.F?!?! (Stay till the end for a surprise guest!)

Summary

Podcast Summary: We Can Do Hard Things

Episode: “Menopause: W.T.F?!?!” (Oct 28, 2025)

Main Theme

In this candid, hilarious, and deeply honest episode, Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, Amanda Doyle, and a surprise guest, “Madam President,” take on the messy, under-discussed reality of perimenopause and menopause. The conversation is a mix of raw frustration, humor, solidarity, and practical sharing, aimed at validating experiences and dismantling the cultural shame and ignorance around this phase of women’s lives.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Untold Reality of Perimenopause (00:22–13:24)

• Glennon’s Perspective:
  Glennon opens by saying she has been looking forward to discussing menopause, but dreads that no one is talking about it in a way that matches her experience:
  • “I feel as if my mind and my heart and my body and my life and my relationships and my planet are all on fire.” (00:22–00:41)
  • She details her nightmarish symptoms: insomnia, racing thoughts (“a beehive in my head”), skin itching (“fire ants with tiny daggers”), night sweats, and being soaked in sweat (“Just try to think of it as a water bed.” 06:10).
  • The symptoms extend to daily life: sudden motion sickness, TV making her nauseous, changes in hair and skin, and a creeping sense of internal and external dessication.
  • Vivid self-portrait:
    “I am dried apple Colonial Shrunken Head Barbie…This is not just my appearance. This is my soul.” (11:52)

2. Emotional Toll & Identity Dissonance (13:26–17:13)

• Glennon notes the emotional flattening—and intermittent rage—that perimenopause brings:
  • “It’s not just my appearance…Perimenopause has shrunk my heart three sizes.” (13:26)
  • She describes the loss of joy and connection to positive emotions: “I can look at the exact same thing and be like, I can see objectively that that is a happy thing…Oh, look, a joyful occurrence.” (14:28–15:06)
  • Glennon’s main feeling: “irritation.”

3. The Broken Healthcare System (17:13–20:09)

• Systemic Neglect:
  Abby and Amanda discuss feeling dismissed by doctors and the lack of useful information in the healthcare system:
  • “I went from doctor to doctor saying something feels off. And they just kept telling me I was fine. I was not fine.” – Abby (18:48)
  • Amanda observes: “The healthcare system is failing women in midlife and doctors are uneducated and the guidelines are outdated." (19:23)

4. Impact on Relationships (21:16–29:59)

• Irritation and Negotiation:
  Glennon humorously and authentically describes how menopause-triggered irritability can target loved ones:
  • “I decided recently that the real problem…was that Abby makes too many noises.” (22:13)
  • The couple entered negotiation over “which noises” Abby could make—sneezing, clearing throat, “elephant sanctuary” mornings, etc.
  • “We just had a long list, and we talked about which was most important,” says Glennon (24:18).
  • Both agree that partnership during menopause involves offering each other enormous grace and patience.

5. Societal Expectations and Cultural Neglect (27:09–36:55)

• Invisible Suffering, Lack of Support:
  • “There’s no physical representation. We don’t have a thing we can point to…So it all just looks like you're crazy.” (26:29)
  • Glennon and Amanda discuss how pregnancy receives support and sympathy, but menopause—when women supposedly become "useless" to the culture—does not.
  • Emotional theme: Women have supported everyone else, but now are left unsupported.
  • “We have mothered you, we have sistered you, we have held up your sky, like, and now you’re just annoyed that we're annoyed. There’s just something…a moral wound to me.” – Glennon (45:09)

6. Medical Ignorance and the Need for Solidarity (36:55–49:25)

• Alarming Stats & Systemic Neglect:
  • Only 1/3 of OBGYN residencies have menopause training; 75% of women never receive treatment for menopause symptoms (37:12–38:34).
  • “We have conflated normal with acceptable,” says the medical expert, pointing out that just because menopause symptoms are typical does not mean they should be tolerated as untreatable (39:57).
• Call for Connection & Information-Sharing:
  • “We take care of us,” Glennon repeats, stressing the importance of women sharing their experiences and resources with each other.

7. Spiritual Perspective and Setting Boundaries (35:02–36:55)

• Glennon describes menopause as a spiritual culling—a time when she can no longer tolerate what doesn’t serve her:
  • “I am unable to enter anymore into situations that aren’t right for my soul…So I do understand that there’s something good spiritually going on with, you know, like a deep culling of shit." (35:02)
  • Many women share feeling adrift, despite resources and support—this is a structural, not personal, failing.

8. “The Do Not Care Club” w/ Surprise Guest: Madam President (51:00–55:10)

• “Madam President,” founder of the viral “Do Not Care Club,” brings levity and empowerment:
  • Membership in the club means: let go of unnecessary burdens and social expectations, embrace comfort, refuse to shrink or apologize.
  • “We do not care if we hurt your feelings. We said what we said. And we do not care if we have cellulite on our legs. Legs is legs. That’s it.” – Madam President (52:40)
  • Glennon’s list includes: no more stilts (high heels), no more makeup, no more “hard pants,” and—above all—no more fake laughs.
  • Madam President: “You are absolutely a member of this club. Approved.” (55:01)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “I feel as if my mind and my heart and my body and my life and my relationships and my planet are all on fire.” – Glennon (00:22)
• “It feels like bees activate…the second I lay my head down.” – Glennon (04:07)
• “I am dried apple Colonial Shrunken Head Barbie. This is not just my appearance. This is my soul.” – Glennon (11:52)
• “Perimenopause has shrunk my heart three sizes.” – Glennon (13:26)
• “Irritation…That is as close as I can get to a feeling.” – Glennon (16:25)
• “I went from doctor to doctor saying something feels off…they kept telling me I was fine. I was not fine.” – Abby (18:48)
• “Unreasonable times call for unreasonable measures.” – Medical Professional/Expert (26:11)
• “Only 1/3 of OBGYNs are trained in menopause management. One-third. And that’s deliberate.” – Medical Professional/Expert (38:00)
• “We have conflated normal with acceptable. We say, ‘It’s typical,’ but it should mean, ‘What are we going to do about it?’” – Medical Professional/Expert (39:57)
• “We take care of us. Who gets information to each other? We do.” – Glennon (44:28)
• “There is nothing more natural than being 90 and not getting an erection. But the DOD is gonna make damn sure that you can get [ED meds] by mail, and it's covered by your insurance.” – Medical Professional/Expert (47:27)
• “We do not care if we hurt your feelings. We said what we said.” – Madam President (52:40)
• “If Chad can walk around with his face hanging out, so can we.” – Glennon (54:06)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Nightmare Symptoms & Self Portrait: 00:22 – 13:24
• Emotional Flatness & Irritation: 13:26 – 17:13
• Medical Dismissal & Systemic Failures: 17:13 – 20:09
• Relationship Challenges: 21:16 – 29:59
• Society’s Indifference: 27:09 – 36:55
• Medical Education Gaps: 36:55 – 38:44
• Call for Solidarity & Information: 44:28 – 45:30
• Surprise Guest—Do Not Care Club: 51:00 – 55:10

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Resources Mentioned

• Menopause Society (menopause.org): Directory of credentialed menopause providers (49:01)
• MIDI Health (joinmidi.com): Telehealth platform for perimenopause/menopause care (various mentions)

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Tone & Language

The conversation is frank, vulnerable, and layered with self-deprecating humor and warmth. The speakers don’t shy away from raw truths or messy details but always return to connection, empathy, and the clear message: you are not alone.

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Takeaways

• Perimenopause and menopause are uncharted territory for most women, filled with physical and emotional upheaval.
• The medical system is failing women at midlife, with stark gaps in knowledge and empathy.
• Social conversations, humor, and honest sharing—instead of shame and silence—are forms of collective care.
• Solidarity is essential: “We take care of us.”
• It’s time for women—and their partners—to “not care” about outdated expectations or performative suffering, and to demand the care, answers, and comfort they deserve.

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If you’re experiencing perimenopause or menopause—or love someone who is—this episode is a validating, riotous, and necessary listen.

Transcript

[Host/Announcer]

This episode is brought to you with the support of our sponsor, MIDI Health.

[Abby]

We are gathered here today to bitch.

[Glennon]

About this thing called perimenopause.

[Partner of Glennon]

Yeah.

[Glennon]

I have been very looking forward to. To this hour, maybe four months, because I don't hear anyone discussing this the way I am experiencing this, which is I feel as if my mind and my heart and my body and my life and my relationships and my planet are all on fire. And when I try to express that, someone says, have you tried some hematoma globinique? What, like, some word that is some sort of supplement, and I need, like, a fire hose.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

And they're like, we are beyond supplements, people.

[Glennon]

And that is how I feel like. And then. So I just need. I just ask for a little bit of time to try to express what the hell is going on. And.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

It'S a service to the people, Glennon. It's a service to the people. If you're able to put in words this godforsaken thing that everyone's going through, it would be. I. I thank you for your service.

[Partner of Glennon]

Yeah. And I also think if you're listening, maybe maybe include your. Your male friends in on this podcast just so that they could learn a little bit about either what to expect or what might be going on in their households. Yeah, this is. This. We have no answers, but this is a public. Public service announcement.

[Glennon]

But, boy, do I have about.

[Partner of Glennon]

What is.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Is it like, what to expect when you're expecting menopause?

[Glennon]

Yeah, maybe. I mean, I'd like to start with a self portrait that my team has. Allison and Audrey have created. It's a self portrait of me right now. And so I want you to look at this. It's just. It's. It's a Venn diagram is what it is. And. And this is menopause. And this is. This is menopause. And this is fascism. And this is me. This flaming hot fire is my self portrait right now. So if any of you are also living at this intersection, welcome.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

What's at the bottom? What's the picture at the bottom?

[Glennon]

Oh, we'll get there. Okay.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

We're not there yet, people.

[Glennon]

No.

[Partner of Glennon]

Now, do you want me to keep this up?

[Glennon]

I don't care.

[Partner of Glennon]

Like, let's see about it. How did you do that?

[Glennon]

Okay, so I want to tell you when this journey began. I think it began at night. Okay. Night for me has become a slice of solitary, lonesome hell, which, honestly, is not that much different than the slice of lonesome, ragey hell that is the day. But the night Is darker. Okay? Now what started happening to me in the night is that I would lay my head down and then some things would start happening. Okay? One of the things that would start happening is that my mind, you know, it's not. It's not a calm, quiet, relaxing, ordered place to be ever. I lay my head down and it's like, okay, well, I imagine it, you know. Have you ever seen a beehive? And then you see them on the. I've never seen one in real life who has but on the nature channels and like maybe someone brings some poison and then, or, or smoke and then the whole beehive goes crazy and, and comes alive and there's buzzing everywhere and it's just chaos.

[Host/Announcer]

Yes.

[Glennon]

That is what night started happening in my brain. Okay? So there was no. There's no order to the thoughts. There's no escape from the thoughts. There's no logic to the thoughts. It's just a million bees. Activate. The second I lay my head down and I try all the tricks, I count to a million. I do letters and think of words. I do know, the bees keep going. Now if somehow the bee's calm enough, don't worry. Because then another thing happens, which is that I started getting these unbelievable skin itches. Do you remember this time now when I call it an itch? It's more like a colony of fire ants. Okay, I don't know what fire ants are. I don't even know if they're real, but this is. It feels like I'm being stung and bitten or stabbed. Nope, it's a colony of fire ants with tiny daggers.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Tiny dagger wielding fire ants descending upon the hive of bees.

[Glennon]

Yes, yes, bees. And now I've got the bees and the ants. I've got the fire ants on the skin.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Armed, armed ants.

[Glennon]

The smoking bees in the head.

[Partner of Glennon]

Okay, Armed ants. Smoking bees.

[Glennon]

Okay. And so good title. So I wake up, it's like a band name. Yeah. And the fire ants are happening. And the skin is on fire. And the only relief that could possibly be brought for one second is the scratching. But then if you scratch, the fire ants come back. Double, double, double, stabby, stabby, stabby. Okay. All night now I'm only laughing because.

[Partner of Glennon]

This is exactly what's happening.

[Glennon]

Yes. Then nature provides, I don't know, liquid, Maybe to help with the bees, maybe to help with the fire ants. But what happens next is I wake up in pools of sweat. I sweat through my clothes. I take off my clothes, I sweat into the sheets. I wake up in like just puddle, puddle Puddle I for the first month. Think this is great. Gross. For the next month. I don't give a. I just try to think of it as a water bed. Yeah.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

This is how we live now.

[Glennon]

This is how we live now. We just sleep in liquid. Okay.

[Partner of Glennon]

She's in a water bed.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Yeah. You're going back to your roots. Remember when that was your nickname, Puddles?

[Glennon]

Yeah, I do. Then I want to say I wake up, but, no, I just stand up. Okay. I don't wake up because I never fell asleep. I've been at war with nature all night. Like, the closest I've ever been to camping. Okay. And I stand up. I don't wake up. I stand up. And then more things happen. Okay. So first it was just a night experience, and then I started noticing the situation where airplanes. Airplanes. If I get in a car, first it was just airplanes and cars that suddenly made me motion sick. Okay. Then it became walking.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Any motion whatsoever, including with your feet.

[Glennon]

Then it became other people walking. Then. I kid you not, can I. I. There are many TV shows I can't watch anymore. I get sick to my stomach watching TV and my life. Yeah.

[Partner of Glennon]

Like, you know the ones like the Office, where they do, like. They do a lot of, like, tv, like, camera movement, right? And it's like to. To. They. They like, pan really quickly to. And she's like, can't do it. Can't do it.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

I've noticed that with Google Docs, like, if we're in a meeting looking at Google Docs, you're like, I can't watch that screen while it moves.

[Glennon]

Nope. Okay.

[Partner of Glennon]

So then that was fun. Last year when we were on the road for Tish's tour, it was fun.

[Glennon]

Remember, I couldn't even re.

[Abby]

Watch Friday Night Lights?

[Partner of Glennon]

Yep.

[Glennon]

Okay. Then some interesting things started happening, which is that I. Well, my hair, it turned a completely different category. I don't think it's. I don't think it's. It's the texture of hair. I don't know what it is. It's wire sticking out. This will last about 20. You know, it'll glass this. This. This show, and then it will just start spiraling out like. Do you know Ms. Frizzle from the Magic school Bus? Yes. Okay, so that's the vibe. It's a book. Yeah, It's a kid's book.

[Partner of Glennon]

Nobody read to me.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Is it a book, then? No.

[Glennon]

And then my. One of my favorite parts of this is that I started getting this, like, little weird red situation on my cheeks, and I was like, what this Is new. The cool thing about this perimenopause thing is, is for the first several months, you don't connect any of these things. You just think all of these different weird things are happening to me. Right. I started getting this red mask of what I now know is some sort of rosacea that comes with perimenopause. But I didn't know that for six months. So I just looked like Santa Claus. That's what I look like now. I have like 16 pound of shellac over my cheeks. Actually, I should have just not done that for this episode. I'll do. I'll show you guys.

[Partner of Glennon]

I love your cheeks.

[Glennon]

Thank you, baby. Yes. For real, the redness? Yes.

[Partner of Glennon]

I think it's so cute.

[Glennon]

Thank you.

[Partner of Glennon]

It is. It looks like she's been like sun kissed.

[Glennon]

Sun kissed by plastic. By the devil. Yeah. Been Satan kissed. That's what menopause feels like. So it's like the opposite of a fairy godmother. It's like ding. It's like ding. It's like you've been Satan has touched your. So I. And then we're moving. You know, we moved Tish into school the other day and we. I was carrying all this shit and I passed a mirror, a big mirror in the hallway and I looked into it and I realized I've been trying to figure out what I remind myself of during this six month period. And I looked in the mirror and I realized I know exactly what I remind myself of. This is who I am now. When I was in elementary school, we lived in Virginia. And so we used to go. Our big field trip each year was to colonial Williamsburg. Okay. You know, they'd like churn butter. It's like one of those places they pretend it's in olden days. And it's like a village, a colony. Like, we. We really used to celebrate colonialism in big ways. We would send kids to celebrate it. Anyway, they would have us. They would have a craft table. And at the craft table there would be these apples. And the apples had been shrunken. Okay. They had been laid out for a very long time. And so the app, all the moisture from the apple, it had gone away. So just become this little shrunken thing, like kind of like a grape becomes a wre. And this apple became this other like shrunken, shriveled thing. And then we would have to take the apple and there would be all these scraps around like that you'd make a dress out of and you'd put little eyeballs on the apple and you would make a doll. Dried apple doll.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

A dried colonial apple doll.

[Glennon]

Yeah. I am dried apple Colonial Shrunken Head Barbie. That's what I. Oh, yes. My team found. This is the shrunken. This is who I am now. Okay. I'm a shrunken. This is menopause. This is all of us. We are a group of shrunken apple. All the moisture has been taken. All the. And what I want you to know is the physical asp. I am not just a shrunken. This is not just my appearance. This is my soul. Right, right.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

This is not even necessarily what I look like on the outside. This is what I look like on the inside. If you're just listening to this, you have to go watch it on YouTube because you can see the portraits of Glennon as shrunken apple.

[Partner of Glennon]

That's right.

[Glennon]

Yeah. Oh, right, right. Because people are listening. Okay, Right. So what you need to know is it's not just the actual moisture. It is actual moisture.

[Partner of Glennon]

It is. I think that is a side effect of menopause. Decrease in and moisture.

[Glennon]

Human cactus. My skin, my hair, my body, my. Is it. Is it all the sweat that gets taken at night?

[Partner of Glennon]

Could be.

[Glennon]

I mean, maybe it is. I mean, guess what? We don't know. We don't know. We don't know anything because nobody tells us shit. I'm so furious. Okay, so the physical situation that I just described is the least of it. Doesn't matter.

[Partner of Glennon]

That's true.

[Glennon]

Does not matter. It is not just that I am an apple shrunken doll physically. It is that I am like the reverse Grinch. Like, the perimenopause has shrunk my heart three sizes.

[Partner of Glennon]

I don't think that that's the right cloud. You might feel that way.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

She does, Abby. She does feel that way.

[Partner of Glennon]

I'm not experiencing you that way.

[Glennon]

Really?

[Partner of Glennon]

Yeah. I'm not experiencing. I'm experiencing lots of confusion, frustration. But you're not the Grinch. You're sad. It's a sad time. It's confusing because we don't have any answers. And, you know, everybody's different, right? So, like, you go, you talk to this one doctor, and they say one thing and you talk to another doctor because there's no real, like, steady, solid information for you. Because, like, your body is different and how your estrogen and progesterone are dropping is different than, let's say, somebody else, because you might be in a different phase of your menopause cycle.

[Glennon]

Well, yeah, it's just emotionally what I would describe it as is like, if the. If this menopause thing has taken the moisture from my body, it's like also, like, drop. Taken out, like, the joy and the will to love and live. Like, you know, things will happen that I know a few months ago would have brought. Made me feel a certain way. It would have brought me peace, brought me joy. I can look at the exact same thing and be like, I can see objectively that that is a happy thing.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Oh, look, a joyful occurrence.

[Glennon]

Yeah. No, no, no, no. That was far too much life. Oh, look, a joyful occurrence.

[Partner of Glennon]

Yeah. I think. I think also what we should talk about too is, like, not just. I think that the symptoms that you're experiencing physically are also playing a big role psychologically and emotionally for you. And what would be, like, the actual emotions that you're experiencing rather than like, classifying as Grinch, like, like, what are you feeling?

[Glennon]

Well, I think I actually am a person who feels like my. My emotions are very. I'm a very sensitive person. I. My challenge in life is usually like a high, high, low, low. Oh, my God. I feel that pain. I feel that joy. I feel that anger. I feel your feelings. I feel all the things. And. And right now, what I. When I experience depression in my life or what's happening right now, I feel it more as, like, an absence of any of that. Like, it is less for me of, like. Although I do feel my main feeling is irritation. That is. That is as close as I can get to a feeling.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Right.

[Glennon]

Okay. Every. Every other feel or like, well, the kids are a different thing. I mean, the world, the universe brings perimenopause to women at a time where you're like empty nesting and you're taking care of your. You're watching your parents get older. It's just every fascism, but it's just. It's not ideal times. I mean, I. When I want to make myself feel better, I read. And I was reading Virginia Woolf the other day, and I said to Abby, oh, my God, all these women, Virginia Woolf, Ann Sexton, Sylvia. Sylvia Plath. Like, what did we check their fucking hormone levels? All these women who had their main break breaks in their 50s. Holy shit.

[Abby]

And now it's time to thank the companies who allow you to listen to We can do hard Things for Free.

[Host/Announcer]

This show is a lot about giving voice to the problems we face, think are our personal failings, but are actually structural and cultural crises that are impacting all of us. And if we can give voice to those and connect with each other, we can find solidarity and Solutions. And I think this is true for perimenopause and menopause, which is why I'm grateful that we are talking so openly about it today. And I'm happy to share about the important work that our partner, MIDI Health, is doing. Too many of us are struggling out here on our own with perimenopause and menopause. And without access to informed health care, languishing on waiting lists, meeting with doctors who dismiss our symptoms, telling us just to suck it up, or worse yet, saying that it's all in our head. It's outrageous that 75% of women never get any treatment at all for their perimenopause or menopause symptoms.

[Abby]

Well, you both and the POD squad knows that I am in perimenopause right now, but I didn't know that for a long while. I just thought that I was losing my mind. I don't know that anyone had ever really said the word perimenopause to me before. And I had no idea that it was coming and no idea what to expect once it was there. And I was struggling mentally, emotionally, physically, all of that. I went from doctor to doctor saying something feels off. And they just kept telling me I was fine. I was not fine.

[Glennon]

Abby knows that none of us.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

The narrator reports she was not fine.

[Glennon]

For so many of us, it's when we're doing everything.

[Abby]

It's when we're parenting, it's when we're working, it's when we're caring for everyone. Many of us in that sandwich place where we're caring for parents, caring for children, and we cannot find a way to care for ourselves, even though our bodies are begging for support. So I tried everything. I kept trying to optimize my health, but the truth was, my body didn't need hacks. It needed care, attention, real information, and someone who understood what was actually happening to me.

[Partner of Glennon]

Yeah, the healthcare system is failing. Women in midlife and doctors are uneducated and the guidelines are outdated. And that's why MIDI founders resolved to build a company to step into this care gap and provide. I mean, honestly, this has been missing. MIDI is providing it, and it isn't just like hormones. They offer holistic care plans tailored to each patient's needs that may include hormonal medication, non hormonal medication, supplements, and recommendations for alternative therapies. Treatments work, and quickly. More than 90% of MIDI patients report symptom improvement within 60 days of their first visit.

[Host/Announcer]

I use MIDI and I tell all my friends about the ease of my Experience and to try it too. No more waiting months to get an appointment.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

You just go to midi.

[Host/Announcer]

Get an online telehealth appointment right away from the comfort of your own home. You meet one on one with a healthcare professional who takes the time to tailor a plan for your specific needs and they send prescriptions to your local pharmacy. Also, MIDI is the only, only women's telehealth brand covered by major insurance companies, making it high quality, expert care, accessible and affordable. Midi's mission is to help all women thrive in midlife, giving them access to the health care they deserve. You deserve to keep your quality of life as high as possible and not to break your back and soul getting the care you deserve. If you're not getting what you need, it's not you, it's. It's them. So give MIDI a try today@join MIDI.com that's join M I D I dot com.

[Glennon]

Okay, so the feeling is irritation. I'm irritated all the time. I think that one of the things that's happening with me, which maybe other people can relate to, is that I want to fix the problem. I want to stop being so. Feeling so awful. I want to. So I. What I do is I identify something that's irritating me and then I go full bore to try to fix that thing.

[Partner of Glennon]

Okay, so fascism, Abby. Things such as this, I mean, the.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Other day, I mean, first two priorities. Once I get those locked out, I'm.

[Glennon]

Coming for the rest of you.

[Madam President]

Yeah, beware.

[Glennon]

I mean, I. I'll tell you this story, even though I think Pod squad might get mad at me. And I'm just asking for some grace because I know you love Abby and I promise you I love Abby more than you.

[Abby]

Okay?

[Glennon]

But relationships can be a challenge during this time. And I decided recently that the real problem was not menopause or fascism or the fall of democracy or the empty nesting or the. Whatever it was that Abby makes too many noises. Okay. This is a true story.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Two things can be true at once.

[Glennon]

So I had like ac. I sat her down with my apple shrunken head and said, explained why all the noises were the real problem and how. I mean, my sensitivity to noises just is.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Yeah. So you have a real.

[Partner of Glennon]

That's a real thing that's happening. And that's something I'm really trying to honor because I hear you.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Can we just dig into when you say noises? Let's just put a little color on that. Is this the sneezing thing?

[Glennon]

No. Well, there's a thing that happens in the morning. I Call it the elephant sanctuary.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Oh, yeah. It's like.

[Glennon]

Right. It's just a lot of, like, honking.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

And she really clears the decks in the morning. And it's like a. I.

[Glennon]

Not. It's just. It's un. Believable. That's what it is. It's also her body, her choice. All right, I understand. Please don't. Team Abby. Team Glennon. Just have some grapes.

[Partner of Glennon]

Yeah. Because here's the thing. This is the thing that I've come to accept that some of the things about living with somebody are harder than others. And. And when we all go through this time, some of those irritations that you might be able to manage on. On in a normal way, like, that's silly. You know, whatever. That's just her, you know, just woke up, she wants to clear her throat, whatever. But, like, times such as these are a little bit more sensitive. You're feeling. I really know that you're feeling more sensitive. And so you sat me down the other day and you said, so can we just do some negotiations on the sounds?

[Glennon]

I listed all the sounds, and I said, can you tell me which ones are most important to you? Yeah, this is for real.

[Madam President]

No joke.

[Glennon]

Can you tell me elephant sanctuary feels important to you? When we are doing a lot, a lot of sneezing, how do we feel about, like, 20% of the time muffling the sneeze instead of scream sneezing? Right. Like, how do we feel about. There's a lot of throat clearing during the day anyway. We just had a long list, and we talked about which ones are most important. The. I understand that this is not my.

[Partner of Glennon]

Best self, but we are not in a time such as that.

[Glennon]

No, we are not in best self time.

[Partner of Glennon]

No. I just don't think that that's a thing. So, like, why would I hold you to the. To be. To that account? Like, it is my job to roll with these times. And I think that, of course, my feelings do. I do have feelings.

[Glennon]

You do have feelings.

[Partner of Glennon]

I do have feelings.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Are they important to you, though?

[Abby]

I.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

You are feeling.

[Partner of Glennon]

But I do think. And you did mention. And I think it's really important that, like, I need. And we need to be considering each other.

[Glennon]

Right, Right.

[Partner of Glennon]

And you are going through a tougher time than I'm going through right this moment. I'm. I'm on menopause's doorstep.

[Glennon]

I know.

[Partner of Glennon]

So I want to try to give you as much fucking grace as I possibly can. And I'm not always perfect. And that's the thing that I struggle with. Is because when we have these conversations and we negotiate it, this is where we go, move on from here.

[Glennon]

Yeah. I like to have. We've decided something, and then we're going to move on from the conflict with a new plan. And Abby worries that if the plan doesn't go perfectly, I will say, but we. We started from a new place.

[Partner of Glennon]

Yeah. Whoopsies.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

We had a plan.

[Glennon]

Right.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Can I say something about the unreasonableness, too? Because I feel like what is so interesting is that of course, that's not reasonable to monitor her sounds.

[Glennon]

No.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

And also, unreasonable times call for unreasonable measures.

[Partner of Glennon]

Exactly.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

And this is like in. When you're pregnant and your hormones are insane. People understand that. They're like, that chicken can't be in this house.

[Partner of Glennon]

Yes.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Because that smell is. Is making me absolutely insane. But we don't have the physical representation, besides the apple smush face and everything. We don't really have a thing that we can point to and be like, that person needs special accommodation during this time because it's. Oh, I'm sorry, 15 years of your life. So. But it is the same kind of, like, aversions and sensitivities that we will excuse in some cases or even expect in some cases where your hormones are clearly going insane. But this is so invisible that everything looks like you're crazy.

[Abby]

And I think it's also because culture.

[Glennon]

Values that pregnancy in a woman, because we think of women as just baby makers. And so they're. They're doing their, you know, holy duty during that time. So we honor the chicken, but we don't give a shit about women who are going through menopause because they are becoming useless to culture in. In. In terms of our culture. So why would we care about making this part. This transition easier for them?

[Partner of Glennon]

And I think it's a test to. For me, being the partner who's not technically going through menopause in, like, the active physical symptoms phase, but I'm getting there. It is a test for all of. All of people in my position. So for anybody out there who. Who has a wife that is going through this for me, I like to think about this, like, this is. This is like, the ultimate love that I can give you.

[Glennon]

And.

[Partner of Glennon]

And one of the things that I have to work on not doing is locking myself in a room somewhere else, because I think that that would actually make you happier. No, seriously. Because you just take myself, like, the irritate. The thing that I think is probably irritating her the most out of the actual equation. Like, I have to. I have to force Myself, like, okay, no, like, even if you are making noises and if. Even if you are irritating her, we still need to figure out how to connect during this time. Yeah, so it's like. It's like getting in there and, like, taking some hits.

[Glennon]

Right? The sweetest thing is the next. Okay, so the next morning, we have this conversation where I bring the list of noises and I say, can we just negotiate which noises are most important to you? And then I realized in that moment, I am devoid of human emotion. I'm a robot right now. That made perfect sense to me. I didn't understand why that would hurt anyone's feelings. I have the list. It's a negotiation. Okay. Abby's feelings are hurt, obviously. So I put my head down. At night, the bees start. I'm like, I'm an awful person. I've hurt her feelings. The next morning, I called my doctor. I go to the doctor's office. I say, you have to see me today. I have to get in there. I don't care. I say, you have to do something. I am. I am now hurting my wife's feelings. I am doing. I am mean. I am a Grinch. So he. Anyway, that's a whole nother story. When I get home, Abby's not home for, like, hours. I'm like, where are you? So I finally.

[Abby]

I say, where are you?

[Glennon]

You're being weird. Where are you? I text her, and she said, I'm at the doctor's office. I made an emergency appointment so that I could get some medicine so I could stop annoying you. It was a gift of the magi. Medical situation. Like, we each went in so that we could try to have some sort of medical intervention to stop hurting the other person's soul.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

To the same doctor.

[Glennon]

To the same doctor, yeah.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Did the doctor mention, like, no, he can't.

[Glennon]

HIPAA or something? Right, right, right.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Oh, God, that's so good.

[Partner of Glennon]

I went. I got. I got my blood tested. I was like, prescribe me whatever the most allergy stuff, allergy medicine in the whole wide world is.

[Glennon]

And I said, give me something. Give me soul medicine.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Yeah, Morphine. Do you have any? Yeah.

[Glennon]

Yes. So the other thing is, I know that there are things to explore I've never been so baffled by. I have lost access to the part of me who can. Can do that. And by the way, I went to my gynecologist, and I thought about not telling the story, but I'm going to, because I think it's really important. And I did. I'll tell it kindly, and I Did talk to them direct about it. So I feel okay. But I can't go there anymore because I go to the gynecologist, and I'm going there for my health and to be. For a safe place to talk about my body and my health and my experience in the world as a human being. And in the gynecologist office, it's covered with posters, advertisements for weight loss, drugs, for Botox, for fillers for a.7 million different things that are not. That don't have anything to do with my experience of the world. It feel. I feel. You know what? I feel like I'm in there. I'm. I have my perimenopause fire, and I feel like I want to be fucking Jesus. And I want to start flipping tables and be like, this is a den of thieves. And I talk to them about it. I. I also. There's like one bathroom in this gynecologist, and. And in the bathroom there's a. One poster, one picture, and it's like six feet tall. It's huge. And it's a woman who has just been on a bender, and she's like, sitting on the toilet with her underwear pulled down and her legs crossed over, and she's holding a bottle of vodka and a cigarette. What. I swear to God to you, I.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Say to the doctor, what is the point of the poster? What does it say?

[Glennon]

I don't know. I say to the doctor months ago, I say, do you think that that is the message that you want to send women who, like, one of the number one leading causes of women's death is as addiction and, you know, alcoholism and smoking and. What. What are you doing? Like, what.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Anyway, what did they say to that?

[Glennon]

Okay, I hear you. No one's.

[Abby]

She.

[Glennon]

Well, the first thing she said is. No one's ever said that before. Like, that's because people fucking trust you. When they come in here and they don't know, they feel bad, they feel confused about that, I promise you. But they don't know what to say. So.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

But I don't think it's because they trust them. I think it's because that we've been taught to think of doctors as unquestioned authorities, and we are supposed to listen and not ask and not push back on anything that they say. So there's. And also it's a deep vulnerability. If you're. If you're relying on doctors to get what you need and you start questioning them, then it's your fault for not getting what you need. Like, it's a Very deeply problematic. I left my OB for the same reason I walked in 6 weeks postpartum where, where people are experiencing depression, body dysmorphia, everything, adjusting to all of the things in the world. And there were giant blow up body sculpt images offering body sculpt services at my OB who had delivered my baby six weeks before. And I was like, what is this doing here? Like, these services should be available to people who seek them out. These services do not belong in a place where people are coming, trying to adjust to their brand new bodies for the first time, and you're offering them. Hey, are you having some body confusion? How about we go back and instead of determining whether you might have postpartum depression, which a large portion of your people in the waiting room will have, we are going to tell you you're probably depressed because your body is fat and we have body sculpting for that. Like, it is such bullshit. And I was like, give me my file. I'm out of here in front of the whole place. Because I was like, this is absolute horseshit. You're not doing your job. First do no harm.

[Glennon]

And this is, that's what I kept thinking. This is a violation of your oath. First do no harm. That is, it is predatory. Yeah, I, I love that you just walked out. I kept going back and being like, why does this feel so bad? I, I, the idea of like finding a new doctor to me feels so daunting. Anyway, I'm not going back.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

It's overwhelming. Yeah, yeah, it's overwhelming.

[Glennon]

I'll tell you what, that is. One, when I think spiritually about menopause, I just feel that there is something, there's, it's a culling. Like, I will not go back to that doctor and I'm speaking of it now. And I will never set foot in there again. I'm done. It is like the things that shouldn't, that never, we never should have had to tolerate are now officially intolerable. Like, I am unable to enter anymore into situations that aren't right for my soul. That with, I'm unable to be in rooms with people who I never should have been in rooms with. I am unable to engage in parts of the culture that I never should have had to anyway. So I do understand that there's something good spiritually going on with, you know, like a deep culling of, of shit. But it is really. And, and I, I am very amazed by, I mean, I am a person who has a lot of extra time, who has extra money, who has so many more resources than so many people do. And I will still tell you that I don't have a single friend who knows what the hell to do. Yeah. And that makes me so furious because there's just. Sure all of our hormone levels are different. But if this were, if, if men went through this, if every 45 to 55 year old men man went through this, there would be national holidays to take off work to deal with this. There would be old boys clubs with all of this information like this is. It's just that we, we as a culture do not care about women. And all of my friends who know the best mechanic, the best dentist, the best whatever are baffled about what to do about this.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Well, they don't teach it. They don't like this is something so 1. More than a billion people B billion are menopausal women by 2030. Okay, that's 1 billion people.

[Glennon]

Half.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

So half of the population. This is what blows my freaking mind. Half of the population will spend one third of their lives. This is not a, this is not a brief period like perimenopause and menopause and the entire period of time that you're adjusting to that is a third of the average lifespan. And we are just like. They'll accommodate it, it, they'll swallow it. Oh, 40% of you are gonna experience depression. 40 of you. 40% of 1/3 of half of the pop. One third of the lives of half the population are going to experience depression. 75 hot flashes, 60% of women, brain fog. And so that like this is not unusual is what I'm trying to say. 85% of people who go through menopause have very life impacting symptoms. So that is just true. And in only 1/3 of the residency programs in OB GYN. I'm not talking about regular doctors. So I'm training to be a doctor. I am training to be an OB GYN in these United States of America. And one half, 100% of my population will spend a third of their lives in menopause. And only 1/3 of residency programs have a standardized menopause training program. That's fucking insanity. And it's deliberate. There's nothing, there's nothing point to one other thing that's going to affect that many people that people who are working as OBGYNs will need to be able to address. I know, just not being taught. So it's, it's like you that they're. We're not getting information from our doctors because it's not being treated. And that's why it is. It is like 60%, 60% of all women don't get their information about menopause from their doctor. They get it from each other. So it's all of us trying to figure out from. And the reason that is the case is because 75% of women never get treatment from their doctor. You go to your doctor and you say, here are my symptoms, and they say, that's normal. We have conflated normal with acceptable. We have said that's typical, as if that's the end of the story. That's typical. Should mean what are we going to do about it?

[Glennon]

Exactly.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

And that is. It's.

[Glennon]

It's.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

It's absolute insanity and it should make everyone crazy.

[Glennon]

I mean, I just truly, this was my intention for this hour and I don't have. I am open to. I don't know what I'm open to. I know there has to be a way to figure this out. Like, I. When I went to the doctor that day, he prescribed me. I love my doctor. I love my general. What's it called? General. Oh, that's actually, I can't. I don't know anything.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

General practitioner, gp.

[Glennon]

Right. Right.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

This is not the one with the signs, right?

[Glennon]

No, no, he has no signs.

[Partner of Glennon]

It's a doctor's office. At his office. Which is what it should be.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Yeah, it's a. He has a crazy old fangled idea to be a doctor.

[Glennon]

Exactly. On a den of thieves. Anyway, he gave me a patch, like an estrogen patch.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Oh, hormone replacement therapy.

[Glennon]

Yep. And then also a pill to take each night. I haven't started this yet because I'm so nervous about all of it. I just. Anyway, something called, like, progesterone that I'm supposed to take, I think, each night. So I put the patch on and change it every two weeks and then progesterone every night. Yeah. So I guess maybe I'll start that soon. But, you know, it's just. It's weird to. The way it feels in. In a moment is like. You know, a few days ago I was trying to put some things in the foyer and I dropped. Broke this vase and I just was like, screamed. I was just like, God damn it. Like, I don't give a. This is a seven dollar. Like.

[Host/Announcer]

Yeah.

[Glennon]

And then. And then I'm standing there in the foyer and I'm suddenly like, so embarrassed. It's like a flash of rage and then I'm so embarrassed. So then I go into the bathroom by myself. I'm just standing there and. And I'M like, the best way I.

[Abby]

Can describe it is I can't figure.

[Glennon]

Out, like, how to exist. Like, I wanted to crawl out of my skin. I'm like, try to get in the bathtub, try to get out. I'm change my clothes 17 times. I'm just trying to feel okay in my own body and in my own skin. And there's nowhere to go to get comfortable. Because the place that feels like suddenly it's not home is my own.

[Partner of Glennon]

But yeah, I think one of the things that I think is really fascinating about this is so many of us women didn't hear about this from our mothers, like, their experience with menopause. One of my friends, Katie from. From Naples, she's very, very much down like the menopause, which actually we should call her. She knows a lot about this stuff. And she said one of the most important things you can do is ask your mother about what her process was when she started to go into perimenopause. What were her symptoms? Because a lot of it is genetics. But because we. Because they had the memo they got was like, this is a thing we don't talk about. We just deal with. I think it is really important that everybody listening to this who may have gone through it or maybe going through it or know somebody who's going through it to normalize the talking about it. Because I think you just having the. This conversation with us where we're just kind of like venting about it, I think is a very important thing. Becoming aware of some of the changes that are going on. Because so much of. Of of it gets conflated with aging. Right.

[Glennon]

Like when, when typical.

[Partner of Glennon]

Exactly. You're like, oh, I feel like. And, oh, I guess this is what aging feels like. And it is not right. Like, these are. All these symptoms are very separate. And it makes. It can make somebody feel like they're crazy. And I just want you to know that I. I think it is very important what you're doing right now just by. By really having a good, solid session. Because I think what you're going to notice is a lot of people are going to come around and talk and wanted to keep talking about this so that we can find the right answers for you.

[Glennon]

So the suffering is less. It feels like, you know, what is always said in collective liberation moments where it's like, we take care of us. Like, that's how I feel about this. Because who protects us? We protect us. Who gets information to each other? We get information from, like, the institutions and are not going to do it for us. And it makes me feel so connected to every other woman going through this and in such solidarity because we have spent our lives caring for people, like, for our children, for our parents, for communities, for our businesses. And then when we go through this, it's crickets. And that is like, deeply hurtful. Yeah, like it. And, and I think that's mixed up in it. Wait, what about us? Like, what about we have mothered you, we have sistered you, we have held up your sky, like, and now you're just annoyed that we're annoyed. There's just something. It's, it's, it's a moral wound to me.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

It is a wound because it's also. Okay, world, I hear you loud and clear. And what you are saying unequivocally is we are absolutely okay with women having one third and let's just put aside the other third of like menstruation and pregnancy and childbirth, which are not given the things that they need. Okay? But let's just pretend that, that 2/3 of life is just a real pleasure cruise. We are okay with women having.

[Glennon]

A.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Poor quality of life for one third of their lives. We are okay, we co sign on that. And if you want to make a big deal out of what's quote unquote natural, you are having an out of portion, out of proportion response to what's natural. When there is nothing natural about accepting people not being able to sleep, being depressed, not having the medications and the treatment that they need. Like there can be a natural process. And then we have. Humans have decided what is okay and what requires intervention in a natural process. If we're not okay with the status quo. But the saddest, most crazy making part of this is we are in fact okay with the status quo. We are okay with women living shitty quality of lives when it only affects them.

[Glennon]

Exactly. Yeah. It's like, you know what else is natural? Getting a limp dick when you're old.

[Abby]

Right.

[Glennon]

But guess what? Oh no, no, no. Stop the presses. There's more funding put into Viagra and those those than there's for all of menopause. There's a lot of things that happen that are natural that are unacceptable if you're a male. Exactly.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Exactly.

[Glennon]

Right.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

There is nothing more natural than being 90 and not getting an erection. But the DOD is going to make damn sure that you can get that by mail and it's covered by your insurance. Like the DOD spends more money on getting erectile dysfunction drugs to their people than we spend on menopause. Because that is natural and unacceptable.

[Glennon]

Why is the word menopause? We can't even have womanopause. Like, even the word is men.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Well, it's. It's menstruation. It has to do.

[Glennon]

I stand by.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Okay, okay, okay.

[Glennon]

All right, all right.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

I'm saying we could get into that etymology, but. But I'm willing to get on this rage train. I don't want to interrupt.

[Glennon]

I mean, it is nice when you think of it as a sentence, like men. Pause.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

Pause. It is the answer to the Venn diagram.

[Glennon]

All I want to say to the pod squad. Anyone who's going through this is, I. As I stumble and rage my way through this, I promise to tell you whatever the hell I find out that is helpful, I will just tell you anything that works, that has worked. I don't know if I'm going to be able to find anything that's helpful, but I promise to share it with you. And I love you and we. We take care of us, and I'm grateful to you and thank you both. I know you guys have ridden this roller coaster with me, and I'm grateful for your grace and your innocent. And you have been. Thanks.

[Medical Professional/Expert]

You have done such a good job with your noises, Abby. Such a good job. We commend you. You and your patience. Loads of money. Noises. The Menopause Society is actually a good place if people are looking for doctors who actually know what they're talking about. The Menopause soc society is menopause.org and that. That they have, like, a listing of providers that are actually credentialed in having some kind of training. So that's. That could be a place to start for people.

[Madam President]

Okay.

[Glennon]

And then after that, there's only one other person that I think might be able to help us honestly on this planet. We're about to meet her in a minute. Stay tuned. We can do our things.

[Abby]

And now it's time to thank the companies who allow you to listen to to. We can do hard things for free. This episode is brought to you by MIDI Health. If anything in this episode is resonating with you, then you might want to check out MIDI Health. Midi Health built their company to close the care gap because every woman's menopause journey is unique and her care should be, too. There are dozens of symptoms linked to. Oh, my God. There are dozens.

[Glennon]

Is this one of them?

[Abby]

There are dozens of symptoms LinkedIn to hormonal changes, and most of us don't even realize they're connected. Mitti clinicians specialize in this Stage of life. They listen, personalize your plan, and stay on top of the latest research. And it's not just about hormones. MITI takes a holistic approach that can include supplements, lifestyle support, and non hormonal options too. Over 90% of MITI patients report symptom improvement within 60 days. And midi is the only women's telehealth brand covered by major insurance, which is huge. And this makes expert care accessible and affordable. Visit join midi.com today that's join midi.com the Care Women deserve.

[Glennon]

Madam President, Hello.

[Partner of Glennon]

How are you?

[Glennon]

Well, Madam President, I've been better. Honestly, I've been better. But I'm really, really grateful that you are here today as the president of the Do Not Care club, which everyone I know is a member of. Can you explain to me, Madam President, why you were moved to create this club?

[Madam President]

As I sat in my car one day, I looked at myself in my rearview mirror and I just realized I was putting so much pressure on myself to be so much, to do so much, to accept so much. And it was time for me to just stop caring anymore. And I just hit that record button and asked women did they want to join me in a club. And overwhelmingly, absolutely. We're 4 million plus strong right now.

[Glennon]

4 million of us. Okay, Madam President, what can you give us? I have made a list of some things that I am not going to care about anymore. And I'm wondering if I could read it to you and then you could let me know if I could be officially accepted into the club based on what I am suggesting.

[Madam President]

Yeah, let's do it.

[Glennon]

Okay, well, why don't you go first? Tell us your favorites. I would love to hear a list of things that we are not going to care about anymore as menopausal women.

[Madam President]

Okay, that's good. We do not care if we forget what we are talking about. Just start a new conversation and if we remember, we'll come back to it. We do not care if we need to turn down the music to bag out of our parking spot. We do not care if we hurt your feelings. We said what we said. And we do not care if we have cellulite on our legs. Legs is legs. That's it. So those are a few of my favorites. We don't.

[Glennon]

Excellent.

[Madam President]

We just don't care.

[Glennon]

We don't care. Okay, here are a few of mine. Okay. We don't care if we are not going to wear stilts on our shoes anymore. In retrospect, that was dumb.

[Madam President]

You're right.

[Glennon]

Thank you. Thank you, Madam President. We don't care if we're not gonna wear makeup anymore. We are not contouring or concealing or highlighting and we're not concealing anything anymore. Not our rage, not our under eyes. If Chad can walk around with his face hanging out, so can we. We are not gonna wear hard pants anymore. If the kids can wear pajamas to school, so can we.

[Madam President]

Absolutely.

[Glennon]

It's soft pants or maybe no pants. We don't care. We can do soft pants. My last one is this. We don't care if we're not going to laugh anymore at the thing you said, that's not funny. We are out of lie laughs. Expect this face from us. We hope you don't care. But if you do care, we don't care.

[Madam President]

I love them, love them, love them. You are absolutely a member of this club. Approved.

[Glennon]

Madam President, thank you for your service to the people of this planet going through this phase. You are the one we've been waiting for. Please rest, protect your spirit, because we need you. Thank you, Madam President. Thank you. The only thing I care about is you.

[Host/Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Midi Health. You know what blows my mind? 75% of women who go to the doctor for menopause or perimenopause get no treatment at all. None. It's not because we're not asking for help. It's because the system wasn't built for us. For decades, women in midlife have been told to just deal with it. The hot flashes, the brain fog, the sleepless nights, like it's all just some sort of rite of passage that we're supposed to endure. But it's not. These are real medical issues that deserve real medical care. Midi Health makes it easy to meet one on one with a menopause trained clinician from home. Someone who actually understands what's going on with your body and knows how to help. They'll personalize your plan, send prescriptions straight to your pharmacy, and best of all, MIDI is the only women's telehealth brand for midlife care covered by major insurance. Visit join midi.com today. That's joinmitty.com midi the Care Women Deserve.

[Abby]

We Can Do Hard Things is an.

[Glennon]

Independent production brought to you by Treat Media. We make art for humans who want to stay human. And you can follow us. We can do hard things on Instagram and we can do hard things show on TikTok.