← We Can Do Hard Things
Loading summary
Transcript273 lines
- [00:00]
Glennon Doyle
Welcome to We can do hard things. It's a terribly exciting day today. We have Rosie o'. Donnell. We're not doing a bio for Rosie because Rosie is in A League of Their Own.
- [00:17]
Abby Wambach
That's good.
- [00:19]
Glennon Doyle
I mute like my kid.
- [00:20]
Abby Wambach
Okay.
- [00:21]
Glennon Doyle
My favorite thing about this episode, she's talking about growing up, losing her mom, and how living in Ireland is healing her for the very first time. She talks about the first time she ever got a hug when she was 12 and the teacher that changed her life.
- [00:42]
My favorite part of the whole show was when she talked about the letter that she wrote to you, Abby, when you got your dui, and how it came out of her daughter's struggle with substance abuse. Just a deeply human, deeply Irish conversation.
- [00:59]
Amanda Nunes
Also, I made this connection today that maybe A League of Their Own was like a really big, important reason in the start of women's sports and the rise of women's sports in this country. I made that connection today. Thank you, Rosie.
- [01:13]
Glennon Doyle
Look at you connecting dots. The o' Donnell dots connected today. You're gonna wanna stick around.
- [01:27]
Abby Wambach
Rosie. Oh, my God. I have been this moment my whole life. How are you?
- [01:34]
Rosie O'Donnell
How are you guys? I feel like I know you. I watch you all the time. I listen to what you say.
- [01:40]
I love the money you're raising for charity. I'm like, look at them doing good.
- [01:45]
In the world and you being so honest and telling the truth about what you're going through. Very freaking inspiring.
- [01:53]
Abby Wambach
Oh, Rosie, back at you.
- [01:56]
Amanda Nunes
Yes.
- [01:57]
Abby Wambach
We have learned from the best.
- [02:00]
Rosie O'Donnell
Yeah, well, you're doing great is all I can say. And hello, sister.
- [02:06]
Abby Wambach
Hi, Ms. O'.
- [02:07]
Glennon Doyle
Donnell. Look at you. It's such a joy to be with you.
- [02:12]
Rosie O'Donnell
Excellent. Well, I love the sister bond you guys have.
- [02:16]
Abby Wambach
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Rosie, what's on your mind right now?
- [02:21]
Rosie O'Donnell
I'm trying to keep steady. I'm trying to keep my mental health in check. I'm. You know, my shrink said to me last week, make sure you call your psychopharmacologist. So I did.
- [02:33]
And I said, you know, my shrink.
- [02:35]
Wanted me to make sure that I'm calling you and having a check in. And, you know, he was like, I think you have a justifiable reaction to the realities that's happening in the world right now. So don't think this is all on you. This is like the world in crisis in our lifetime. And who could have ever predicted this, Right?
- [02:58]
Abby Wambach
I'm so glad that you said that. I feel like it is probably more of a sign of a mental disorder. If you are not breaking down right now.
- [03:10]
Rosie O'Donnell
I feel the same exact way. I feel like I want to say to my therapist, why aren't you this upset?
- [03:18]
And why aren't you this upset? How many babies do we have to see taking their last breath? How do we have to watch snuff films every day on what should be the mainstream media? It's absolutely overwhelming to me and shocking. And I try to keep it all, you know, in check while doing what I feel is my civic responsibility.
- [03:45]
Abby Wambach
What are your strategies?
- [03:46]
Amanda Nunes
Yeah, we help us.
- [03:47]
Abby Wambach
The reason I'm asking you that is because I'm not asking anybody that whose strategy seems to be hiding and not facing reality and not speaking up or using their agency in the way they can. You are using your agency in such beautiful ways. So you I am asking, and what else do you do to maintain your one wild and precious life?
- [04:15]
Rosie O'Donnell
You know, I have to say I have this little angel of a human who's 12 who has autism, and the gift of this child, you know, I was 50, I had had a heart attack. I got a call from the lawyer saying there was a birth mom who didn't want a dad in the family. And did I know any lesbians who were waiting with a current home study? And I keep my home study updated all the time just in case a phone call like this happens. Wow, 50. And I had just had a heart attack. And it was my first open adoption. This is my fifth child. And I had some foster kids as well in the interim, but my fifth adopted child. And.
- [04:57]
They had been diagnosed at 2 with autism. And it's been the most wonderfully beautiful, expanding experience, emotionally, of my life. And so I'm very lucky to have that ground in me.
- [05:13]
I'm very lucky to have her.
- [05:17]
The.
- [05:18]
Truth of who she is and what she goes through. You know, yesterday we had a hard day.
- [05:25]
She's 12 years old and has only had seven meltdowns in her life. So that's every other year, right? For an autistic kid, it's pretty miraculous. And yesterday was one of them. And.
- [05:40]
I woke up late at 7:30. It's normally 7. And they like the routine, you know, and why did you wake me up so late? I don't like this food in my lunch.
- [05:50]
I'm not wearing these pants.
- [05:52]
I'm not, you know, everything went wrong. And then she broke and they broke. Sorry. The she they is hard. I got they on my arm, see, so that they would know I'm trying to.
- [06:03]
But every time that I say she.
- [06:05]
They say to me, looks like your tattoo's not working.
- [06:12]
So, you know, they keep me on my toes, I can tell you that much. But all of the stress of having.
- [06:18]
Moved here and you know, we've only.
- [06:20]
We only got here in January and that's a lot for an autistic kid. It's a lot for a 63 year old woman, you know. But I knew because I read Project 2025 what was coming, I knew that this would be the reality in America now. And I knew that my emotional help would not be able to take it. I wouldn't be able in L. A where I was, and watch them taking people off the streets. I knew I couldn't watch the desecration of everything that Americans hold dear and, and sit there in my lovely house in Santa Monica and not know what to do. I knew I had to protect myself and this little Non binary autistic 12 year old.
- [07:09]
From all the horrors that were about to happen.
- [07:12]
And they have.
- [07:14]
And.
- [07:16]
I'm grateful every day that I'm here.
- [07:20]
I'm grateful every day that people in.
- [07:22]
My life believed me. Because I'm not a traveler, ladies. I don't travel, I don't go to Europe.
- [07:28]
You know, like, I like to stay.
- [07:29]
In the United States where I can say, I think it's my appendix, it.
- [07:33]
Could be my gallbladder in the emergency room, you know, I like to know.
- [07:37]
Where my kids are. I like to know. So I've never been a world traveler. So when, when he got the nomination.
- [07:45]
And then I read Project 2025 and.
- [07:47]
Then he actually won.
- [07:51]
I said, okay, here we go, we're going to implement the plan. And the plan was to get to Ireland as quickly and as quietly as possible. I was never one of those celebrities who said, if he wins, I'm going to go. Because I never imagined that he would win the first time or the second time. But I knew I had to leave. And so we did it and we got out before the inauguration, which I thought would be the safest thing to do. And then, you know, what has happened was expected by me, but it still is shocking and.
- [08:30]
So disorienting to think that this is America and my children, my grown children are there and it's the country that I love. And you know, he's threatening to take away my citizenship, which he can't do, although with this Supreme Court there, you never know what they'll give him the right to do because it changes every day. It's like less and less like America. And you know, I try to keep my head above the water. And keep treading and use my voice whenever I have a platform and speak to like minded individuals to encourage and inspire me. I look at all the people standing up to him and we're all in.
- [09:11]
Shock and we're all in trauma and.
- [09:15]
We have our own trauma experiences that we relate to him and how do we as a country heal? And one way that I think it is is to forgive the people who finally see the light. I see so many times on TikTok say, I'm sorry. I didn't know. I was lied to by the Apprentice. I was lied to by Fox News. I believed it. I'm sorry. And then you see people on the left saying, you know, you did this. It's your fault. Screw you deserve what you.
- [09:45]
Abby Wambach
No, no, no.
- [09:46]
Rosie O'Donnell
It's time to welcome everyone back from the cultish reality that they've been living in the lies that they've been living and say, we are America. Remember who we are. Remember what we fought for. Remember where we were before we heard his name in a political context that was actually viable.
- [10:07]
Abby Wambach
Rosie, do you ever. I feel so confused about how and where to use my voice because.
- [10:16]
I believe, like, I quit social media for a long time because I felt like, oh, this is a nightmare. And it's not a place, it's not a responsible thing for, for a leader of any kind to even host people on this site because I am bringing them here and it's a cesspool of what is destroying us. But also, I don't know where else to use my voice. I also don't want to abandon everybody right now. That is the place where, where, you know, brave, sane voices can speak out. But, Rosie, I feel like Abby and I were talking last night to a friend, like, we might just have to truly get the hell off of social media to save our souls.
- [10:56]
Rosie O'Donnell
Well, I believe that. I believe that in many, many ways. But, you know, in another way, if you have the luxury of being given a microphone of any capacity in today's world as a woman, as a gay woman, as a woman, period, because, you know, there's a war with us and, and we are next in their hierarchy of who they can take out, you know, the brown people, the black people, the trans people, and next it's the women and the gay people all together, you know, And, I mean, you don't need to be a brainiac to figure that out.
- [11:32]
Amanda Nunes
I lost her.
- [11:33]
Abby Wambach
Hold on one second. Rosie, we lost your audio.
- [11:35]
Amanda Nunes
I lost your audio. Did you lose her audio?
- [11:36]
Abby Wambach
Maybe I accidentally pressed mute.
- [11:38]
Rosie O'Donnell
Sorry about that. I Don't know what happened. I turned off my phone in case it was that. But I have to say, and everyone who's terrified there in America, I understand. And you know, people who say, why did you go? You know, I had to, I had to protect myself. It was self preservation. Number one, I didn't do so well when he was in the first term. I was overeating, I was over drinking, I was depressed beyond an ability to articulate how depressed I was. And my friends said, get your ass here.
- [12:10]
Abby Wambach
You're talking to some Irish girls here.
- [12:14]
Amanda Nunes
All three.
- [12:14]
Rosie O'Donnell
Yeah.
- [12:15]
Abby Wambach
What is it like there? What is it? I've never even been and I feel it in my bones. What is it like to live there? What is it?
- [12:23]
Rosie O'Donnell
Well, I have to say, Glennon, it's been glorious because everyone has been so welcoming. And I know that Billie Eilish said this and people got honor for it, but I'm going to confirm what she said. There's something about walking down the street and seeing so many people with your face. Now, I'm not saying that's what I chose or I wanted to only see people like me. And I don't think that's what Billie Eilish was saying either. But there's something about seeing your genetic heritage, your DNA on the faces of the people you pass in the street. Like, I'm confronted with my family and myself on a daily basis. I go to the Tesco shopping and I see an 88 year old woman taking the peaches and squeezing and I think, had my mother lived, that's what would have been my mom. And I see a 10 year old girl and I'm like, oh my God, that was me. And you know, it feels here like it felt to me in the 70s in America. It feels much more innocent, it feels much more community based. It feels much more empathetic and caring. It feels. Now, mind you, this whole country is the size of West Virginia, I believe, or North Carolina. You know, it's tiny comparatively. And so the culture that you feel here overwhelms and inspires on a daily basis. The commercials for rugby have me crying, right? They're like, you know, when you, when you play one of us, you play us all, and then everyone in the stands comes down and puts their arms out and I'm like sobbing at home watching it on tv, you know, I mean, there's, there's a culture here that is not obsessed with materialism and celebrity. And that has been exceptionally freeing for me that when you recognize me or see me, you know, what they say, they say, welcome to Ireland. You belong here. We're glad you're here, Rosie. Hope you're doing well. That's what they say to me. Nobody says, could I have your autograph? Or could I have your. Or what do you know about this celebrity? Or that they're not a celebrity based culture. And I remember reading years ago when Beyonce and Jay Z were here with their babies when they were little and they were in one of the greens, you know, which is the park, but they call it the green here. And they were not bothered the whole day and they were kind of like around, like, what is this? But that's what it's like. It is not a celebrity defined or a celebrity obsessed culture, which is unbelievably freeing for me.
- [15:07]
Glennon Doyle
I bet so much of what we're talking about. It seems to me that, you know, the trauma of living through what we are right now. And I'm wondering about, you know, you in many ways going to the place where.
- [15:22]
You are descended from what has that done for you? And the trauma of losing your mom so young. I mean, that was. You were 10. And I just imagine that there's that place in you that is still there.
- [15:39]
Has this done anything for you, being so close?
- [15:43]
Rosie O'Donnell
Oh, yeah.
- [15:44]
Well, first of all, after my mother died, my father took his five bereaved children to Donegal. As close as you could get to Northern Ireland without being in it. In 1973, at the height of the.
- [15:56]
Glennon Doyle
Troubles, oh, my God. That's a whole story.
- [16:00]
Rosie O'Donnell
He took us to a war zone, right? But he didn't know. And he was suffering and he didn't, you know, was trying to figure out, what do I do? And so now that I see, I was 11 when we came here that summer and now I brought an 11 year old over with me and they turned 12 while we were here. And I think of how the cycle of life, the circle of life, how it all comes back around. And, you know, when I was here, when I was young, it was scary and it was overwhelming, but it was also kind of unifying for our family. There were all these cousins and aunts and uncles that we didn't know that were all on my father's side. And.
- [16:46]
It felt like home in a way. And then sadly, when we got home, everything of my mother's had been taken out of the house at my father's request by the neighbors and the aunts and uncles. So there was nothing left in my house of my mom's besides her Barbra Streisand albums. Which no one knew that she would listen to every day when we came home from school. So that was the only connection that I had to having a dead mother, because you couldn't talk about having a dead mother. Nobody was, you know, watching Oprah back then going, how do you deal with a dead mom for your children? You know, now there are millions of books, and there are people like Hope Edelman, Motherless Daughters, Legacy of Loss. That book helped heal me in so many ways. That workbook and her work that she's done in this area.
- [17:42]
You know, it's a hole inside you that I don't think ever goes away. And for me, I know it hasn't. And it's shaped every part of my life. It's shaped every. Every facet of my being a mother. To try to be a mother while you're motherless is very difficult because, you know, you don't have all those memories of what you went through. You know, when my children, at the normal age of teenagers started pushing away and demanding their independence, I completely had a breakdown. You know, I was like, wait a second. What is this? I didn't do this. She died before I could do this. Why are you doing this to me? I love you more than anything. This is horrible. You can't be treating me like this. I did everything that I imagined I would have wanted if I had a mother. And it's still. You're pushing away. Well, that's human nature. Kids have to push away. But, you know, tell me that. 27 years in therapy, and I still don't believe it.
- [18:44]
Glennon Doyle
It's another abandonment. The closest person to you abandoned you, your mother, and again, yes.
- [18:50]
Rosie O'Donnell
And this, you know, this boy, my oldest boy, Parker, I made him go to therapy with me when he was 14, and he was like, you know, I want to go out with my friends and see movies and hang out with them. And, you know, and I'm sobbing for 40 minutes of the session, like, crying, saying, we used to be friends, and he used to tell me things, and he doesn't. And finally, at the end of the session, the doctor said to him, do you have anything to say? And he said, yes. Do you think you could adjust her medication?
- [19:19]
Okay. And you know what? He was right, because they did adjust it, and it all worked out a little bit better. So I'm just saying, you know, it wasn't really wrong of him. But that's, you know, when you don't have a mother and then you're faced with these maternal hurdles that if you did have a Mother, you remembered. Oh, I went through this with my mother, but we got past it. And then I, you know, went to college and it got better, you know, I didn't have that to know. You know, it's very hard, but it's brought me closer to my mother. I finished the Fringe Festival in Scotland with a one woman show that I wrote about my mother and mothering this little autistic child that I have and all of my other children and what I did right and what I did wrong and coming to terms with her death. And I had tried to do this for many, many years, even with playwrights helping me, and I never could do it. But once I got here, I was able to do it.
- [20:24]
Glennon Doyle
Wow.
- [20:26]
Abby Wambach
What? Why? Why do you think?
- [20:28]
Rosie O'Donnell
I think because I was able to sort of see her as a whole woman. I was, you know, she wanted to come to Ireland and never got to come. And my whole life I set up with her details. Like she died at 39. So by 40, I was going to retire. And I did. I left my show when I turned 40, and people were like, why did you leave your show? I'm like, first of all, they told me I had Oprah money, and I did. And I said, there's no reason to work, so I'm going to go take care of my kids, you know, because I. I never got to have a mother come to see me play basketball or see me in a play at school, and that's all that I wanted. I used to dream of it when I was on the basketball court. I would make a shot and then I'd look around to see if she was there clapping, you know, because that, that was the primary pull of my life. I remember Nora Ephron saying, are you ever gonna get over that? And I said to her, I don't think so, you know, because it was defining.
- [21:34]
Glennon Doyle
Part of you believed that she didn't die, that like, that you kept looking for her places, like maybe she just went away and she's coming back. So.
- [21:46]
Rosie O'Donnell
Well, I thought she was kidnapped like Patty Hearst, because Patty Hearst had been kidnapped right around that time by the sla. And I remember there was a photo of her with longer hair and a beret and a machine gun in a bank. And I remember thinking, well, this could have happened to my mother, because when no one tells a kid something, you'll make up anything in order to find some sort of reason for it to all have happened. And so I remember thinking, well, when my mother gets free of the SLA and she comes back, you know, so I thought maybe she would fly in and see me at my games, you know, because I was a big athlete in school and, you know, I thought maybe she would see me in the plays I was doing. But, you know, when I got out of high school, I went to college, and that was the first time I had to tell my roommate that my mother had died. It was the first. First time I admitted it. And I was in fifth grade when she died.
- [22:42]
Abby Wambach
Wow.
- [22:43]
Rosie O'Donnell
And Diane Kennedy, nice Irish girl from Boston, said, you talk about your dad a lot, but you never mention your mom. And I, like, remember thinking, do I do what I've normally done? Which is to lie. Like, I would lie to people on the phone when they'd say, is your mother home? I'd say, no, she's in the shower. Because I didn't want to say the truth. And I didn't really believe the truth. I guess I couldn't believe the truth, you know? So I said to her, no. My mother died when I was 10. And she was like, what? You know, because it was very rare. There was no other kid in our school that had a mother die. You know, in our elementary school. We were it. And my mother was the head of the PTA in our elementary school. And so after she died, they put a plan plaque up on the wall, and it was a stone wall, so I remember thinking it looked like a grave. And it said, ROSEANNE o', donnell, what we are given, we shall keep. And I remember thinking maybe that's where her body was in the middle of my school. You know, like the things that kids will tell themselves if you don't tell them the truth, you know, so it's why I'm a very, very fierce truth teller in my life in every capacity. And it hasn't always served me, but it's the only way I know how to live, you know, it may not.
- [24:06]
Abby Wambach
Have always served you, but it's always served the rest of us.
- [24:09]
Rosie O'Donnell
Oh, well, thank you for saying that. That's very sweet.
- [24:12]
Abby Wambach
When you lose your mom that early, do you just lose your sense of safety on the planet?
- [24:18]
Rosie O'Donnell
Yes.
- [24:18]
Abby Wambach
And if so, have you ever found that again? Because it's. The abandonment issue is really interesting. It's like you're abandoned by your safe place with your mom. I also understand the very. Having a very, very hard time with kids separating. I'm not doing that gracefully. And then the country.
- [24:36]
Not becoming a safe space. Like, is this. Do you ever feel safety?
- [24:42]
Rosie O'Donnell
No, I don't really, but I try to not buy into it. When I am forced to watch like I was as a kid during the Vietnam War, murder and mayhem and chaos on TV, which I did in the 1970s before my mother died. Around that same time, Saigon was falling, and it was on the news 24 7. You know, I would cry and say to my father, you know, we have to help them. We have to help them. How can we help them? And he would say, go to your room. You're not allowed to watch the news anymore. Because it was too painful for me. I was too. I felt too much for my own family to understand, you know, and like, they would often say to me, this didn't happen to you. Like, it doesn't happen to me in order for me to feel it, you know, Shrink once said, most people have a window and then a glass pane and a screen and a shade and curtains and shutters. She said, and you, all your windows are open to the outside, so everything comes in. You don't have any way to kind of filter it.
- [25:59]
Amanda Nunes
That's very helpful because that's my wife. That's a very helpful.
- [26:05]
Rosie O'Donnell
I feel very connected to you, Glenn, and I know all about you. I've read all about you all these years. We never really got to have this kind of one on one conversation. But I've always felt, based on what I know about you and what I felt and observed all these years, that we were very similar in our essence, you know, and that, you know, you are. The pain that you feel for others, I feel as well. And, you know, it's what inspires you to do the great work with your foundation and to give away all of this money and to throw light on the darkness. You know, the day after 9, 11, I called every celebrity I knew. But now, mind you, I was not in a good place, and I'm admitting that. So I don't know how my calls were received.
- [26:54]
You know, mind you, I'm hysterical and screaming at, you know, julia Roberts, you have to give a million dollars. You have to. Because my goal was the next day to have $100 million, not by anyone's name, just from the entertainment community, thrown at what we thought would be the survivors and the burn units and. But there weren't any, right? But at the time, that was what I thought to. How do you throw light on the dark? And every time that I hear of something else that your foundation done, I think she's doing exactly that. Right? You can't just sit by and go.
- [27:32]
Yeah, I'm not going to worry about that, you know, And These billionaires who I don't understand that they don't understand the joy they would get from opening.
- [27:47]
An emergency room named after Rosa Parks in every city in the country might be a good way to spend some of their money instead of just amassing more and what it would do for them spiritually and emotionally.
- [28:01]
Abby Wambach
The moreness, I think, is at the heart of everything. And I do, too. I have this, like, weird memory of the first time I sat with Oprah. At the end of the interview, she said, we were just talking about my book. And then she looked at me and said, what is at the heart of racism?
- [28:23]
And I was like, fuck.
- [28:26]
Rosie O'Donnell
Right?
- [28:28]
Abby Wambach
And I said, fear. And it still bugs me probably every night, because that's not true. I think what's at the heart of it is greedy. Greed is the driving force, the moreness, the conquering. The inability to sit and be grateful for what you have. The drive that keeps these men needing more land, needing more power, needing whatever. That's the thing. Then they make up racism. They make it up. They, we'll just think about America like we needed more, more, more, more, more, more. So we have to create a way of thinking that makes people think that a different group is less than them so that we can justify bringing the slaves over, so that we can justify genocide. So we have to make this up in their head. We have to create a poison that makes them think, that dehumanizes, so that they can use these people's labor to build what we don't need.
- [29:34]
Rosie O'Donnell
So true. And now it's exactly what the president and his administration is doing.
- [29:39]
Abby Wambach
Right?
- [29:40]
Rosie O'Donnell
It's exactly that. To diminish, deride all of these people and fraction them off and call them the doers of bad deeds and make them and their lives a joke so that you can put them in alligator, Alcatraz.
- [29:57]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. You know when you're saying, keep spreading light, it feels to me like a life and death situation, just internally, like a soul life or death. Because it's one thing for me to point greed, greed, greed, this is what's doing it. And then it's another thing to look at my own hoarding and my own life. If it's a sickness that I can see, I can see it now. I can see it. We can all see what unchecked hoarding and greed and individualism does. And we're looking at it. So it feels like it's the most important thing in the world then to say, if that is true. Maya Angelou said, if I am human, nothing human can be foreign to me, which means what is unchecked in them is also inside of me. And so I could have this equal and opposite reaction where I am looking inside and saying, if that's poison, then let me get it out of me. Let me live with such generosity and sharing and unhoarding and community. Let me just do the polar opposite and see if it doesn't bring magic to me and the people around me.
- [31:05]
Rosie O'Donnell
At the end of the day, as Joni Mitchell says, it all comes down to you, right? It all comes down to you because you can have these great philosophical understanding and this kind of meta concept of all the ills of the world, but at the end of the day, it comes down to you. And if you're still hoarding food, clothing, love, money, if you're still doing that in your own life, you see how hard it is. It manifests specifically with individual people, but on a sociological scale, it manifests exponentially, right? With all these billionaires and how we keep track of the billionaires and how we're saying very casually on the news, if they say it on the news, Trump has made this many billions of dollars since being in office.
- [31:56]
There's an emolument clause, ladies and gentlemen. He's a grifter. What will it take for America to really look and see that?
- [32:05]
Abby Wambach
And now it's time for our ads.
- [32:10]
Glennon Doyle
This year, I gave myself something that has genuinely made my life better. I built a little habit around watching classes on Masterclass most nights after the kids are down. Instead, instead of doom scrolling myself into a stress spiral, I put on a lesson 15 minutes. Something that stretches my brain and reminds me of who I want to be heading into a new year. I love Masterclass and you will, too. There are so many incredible classes, but the one that really got me this fall is redefining feminism with two of our favorite former we can do hard things guests, Gloria Steinem and Adrienne Maree Brown, as well as Amanda Nguyen and Tina Chen. It is grounding and motivating. And then there's classes with Roxane Gay and Spike Lee and just so many folks that make you smarter, more energized and ready for what's next. Masterclass always has great offers during the holidays, sometimes up to as much as 50% off. Head over to masterclass.com hardthings for the current offer that's up to 50% off at masterclass and.com hardthings.
- [33:19]
Amanda Nunes
AG1 is the daily health drink that combines your multivitamins pre and probiotics superfoods antioxidants, all into one simple green scoop. I use this every single day. It is my favorite way to start the day and make it make sure that I get all the right nutrients to keep me healthy and going. They've made something that actually tastes good at the same time that it supports gut, health and digestion. Things that make a big difference in how I feel every single day. AG1 has their best offer yet. If you head to drinkag1.comhardthings you'll get the welcome kit, a morning person hat, a bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2, an AG1 flavor sampler, and you'll get to try their new sleep supplement AGZ for free, which has been a total game changer for my nighttime routine. That's drinkag1.com hardthings for $126 in free gifts for new subscribers so my dog.
- [34:21]
Glennon Doyle
Seamus, I love him so, so much and he shows up for me in every single way and I want to show up for him in the best possible way for him and his health. So when I heard about Maeve, I was so relieved. Most dog foods lack transparency, but Maeve is different. It's the only fresh, ready to serve dog food made from actual human grade ingredients. Real recognizable food. Beef, kale, blueberries, sweet potatoes. The kind of ingredients that could just as easily be in my own grocery list. So if you've ever had that same little worry in the back of your mind, am I really giving my dog the best? I can't recommend maeve enough. It's 100% human grade, it's convenient, no thawing necessary, it's delivered right to your door. And most importantly, it's real food that helps our dogs feel as good as they make us feel. Go to meatmave.com and use code podsquad for 25% off your first order at checkout. That's M E E t m a e v dot com and use the code podsquad.
- [35:27]
Abby Wambach
20Th Century Studios presents the upcoming comedy Ella McKay coming to theaters December 12th from Academy Award winning writer director James L. Brooks, whose legendary credits include as Good as It Gets, Terms of Endearment, Broadcast News and the Simpsons. Emma Mackey plays Ella McKay, a passionate, idealistic young woman who juggles her family and work life in a heartwarming comedy about the people you love and how to survive them. Critics rave. It's quote, smart, funny and timely. It's quote, a feel good movie. And with Emma Mackey, a star is born. Ella McKay features an all star cast including Jamie Lee Curtis, Jack Loudon, Kumail Nanjani, Ayo Adebri, Julie Kavner, Spike Fern, Rebecca Hall, Albert Brooks and Woody Harrelson. It's a perfect holiday comedy about an imperfect family. Ella McKay. Only in theaters this Friday. Get your tickets now.
- [36:32]
Rosie, what was your favorite thing about having your show? Do you have a favorite moment?
- [36:37]
Rosie O'Donnell
I think my favorite moment was when this young boy did the opening announce and said that he had a Titanic.
- [36:47]
Postcard that his grandfather had given him because he had survived the Titanic and he was trying to sell it on the air in order to get his best friend's mother a bone marrow transplant. And I called the producers of the movie Titanic, and they were not interested in helping, but I called the producers of the musical on Broadway, the Titanic, and they said they would love to do it and that they would give the full price that the bone marrow transplant cost. And we had the entire cast come on as a surprise and sing and then take the postcard and give this boy a check to give to his best friend's mother, who happened to be there as well. So those moments, the human interest moments, are the moments that I remember now, of course, Barbra Streisand. I don't even. I can't watch it still. People like, oh, I watch it every year. I'm like, I've never watched it because I put it on and I start to cry. So I can't even watch it, the whole thing, you know? Yes. Because it felt like my mother was walking through the curtain. It felt like, you know, now listen, she's exactly 20 years older than me. Barbra Streisand. She's 83 now. I'm 63. She's born on April 24th. She'll be 84. And.
- [38:10]
You know, she's not old enough to be my mother, but my mother revered her and loved her so much. And those records were the way that I stayed connected to her. So, you know, to me, that was like a manifestation of.
- [38:28]
Every moment of my childhood since my mother died. Like, I remember thinking, you know, I'm gonna be her friend one day. I'm gonna know her, and I'm gonna tell her. And. And then I got to, you know, and many years before, when I was on Star Search In 1984, I was 22 years old, and we were all, all the Star Search kids. We were all at the Planet Hollywood, which had just opened at the Beverly center or the Hard Rock, one of those two. And I think it was Planet Hollywood. And we saw Bette Midler sitting with a very young Sophie, her daughter, like a three or four year old. And the guys and the, you know, the. The people from the show said, let's go over and say hello to her. And they all ran over and I stayed in my booth. And when they came back, they said, why didn't you go? I said, because when I'm friends with her, that would be embarrassing if she remembered that I was one of the people annoying her at 1984 at the Beverly.
- [39:26]
Abby Wambach
Our daughter does that. Our daughter does that. Yeah. She'll be like, I'm not meeting that person with you. I'm gonna meet that person in 10 years on my own. And I don't want them to remember that I waddled up.
- [39:38]
Rosie O'Donnell
Isn't that interesting? And I was sure, like, your daughter probably is. Like, I was certain. You know, I went to a recently here in Ireland, a person who does a podcast. She's very good, and she was talking about manifesting. And I, you know, raised and had a comment. I said.
- [39:58]
Wouldn'T you advise before you can believe your manifestation, you have to have certainty. Yeah, I had certainty. I'm sure A.B. for you. You had certainty. You knew I was gonna be the star soccer player in the world. I was gonna be in the Olympics. I was gonna win all these things. I was gonna, you know, you had to know it in order to live it. Right. You have to dream it in order to live it. Yeah, I knew it.
- [40:27]
Amanda Nunes
Before women's soccer was even in the Olympics. I was writing, I will win an Olympic gold medal for women's soccer. And there wasn't even the thing. It wasn't even in the actual Olympics. It's the weirdest.
- [40:41]
Rosie O'Donnell
That's manifesting of a lot.
- [40:44]
That's manifesting of things that didn't exist yet, you know?
- [40:48]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. You proved wrong that saying, like, if you see it, you can become it. That's actually not true. You can become it even if you don't see it.
- [40:56]
Rosie O'Donnell
Yeah. If you dream it.
- [40:57]
If you dream it, you can live it. That's what I think. If you dream it. You know, I dreamed like people said, were you surprised you became famous? I'm like, no. And you don't like to say that because it sounds so egotistical. It's not because I thought I was so great. I just saw the movie of what my life was gonna be from the time I was very young, and I had a certainty about it. So that in my high school yearbook, everyone said, say hi to Johnny Carson.
- [41:24]
Abby Wambach
No.
- [41:25]
Rosie O'Donnell
Yes. My high school yearbook from 1980, before I even did stand up comedy was say hi to Johnny Carson. I know we'll see you on the Tonight Show. Because I would tell everyone, oh, I'm gonna be on the Tonight Show.
- [41:37]
Amanda Nunes
Then you'd be.
- [41:38]
Glennon Doyle
You didn't know you.
- [41:38]
Abby Wambach
I'm gonna be the Tonight Show.
- [41:40]
Amanda Nunes
You became Johnny Carson.
- [41:43]
Rosie O'Donnell
Yeah, but I never got to be on it with him. I got to be on it with his guest hosts a couple times. But when A League of Their Own came out, was right when he was retiring and everybody wanted to.
- [41:55]
Go on a show to say goodbye, you know, so I couldn't get on. But that was my dream of my life, was to be on with him. He was the best that ever did it, you know. And so that was like a dream not fulfilled, but still close enough, right?
- [42:10]
Glennon Doyle
Pretty damn close. Is that true in other parts of your life? That the ability to just know with certainty?
- [42:18]
Rosie O'Donnell
Yes, I have a knowing that I always tell people, they go, how do you know? I'm like, because I know, like. And I don't know how to explain that. I know. And it sounds very woo woo. And everybody's like, she's a little nuts, you know, and in some ways, maybe I think I am. But I, you know, I have a knowing and a certainty about some things that.
- [42:39]
Glennon Doyle
Like, what else?
- [42:40]
Rosie O'Donnell
Well, I was certain I was gonna adopt a lot of children.
- [42:43]
Abby Wambach
Okay.
- [42:43]
Rosie O'Donnell
I knew it from the time I was very young. And, you know, a lot of people were like, well, you don't know that you might get married. I'm like, not getting married. Lesbian. Not getting married, not having a baby, not doing it, you know. But I knew I would adopt because there was a teacher who took me under her wing. And first person to hug me, first person to say I love you to me was a school teacher, a public school teacher.
- [43:06]
Glennon Doyle
How old were you when you got your first hug?
- [43:09]
Rosie O'Donnell
12. About to be 13. She was. It was fifth grade that my mother died. And this was seventh grade. So two years later. And this was a brand new teacher. She was 27. And, you know, there was an English teacher. And my grandmother was in the hospital. My mother had died two years before, and my grandmother was quite sick who had lived with us. And this one teacher, Mr. Kaplan. And I don't blame him because he didn't know. He said to the whole class, roseanne, where's your homework? What's your mother's name? I'm gonna call your mother. And I didn't answer. And he kept saying, come on, tell me your mother's name. I'm gonna call your mother. And then somebody raised their hand and said her mother died. And then I ran away from school. I ran woods till it was dark. And then I went into my neighbor's backyard and snuck into their basement. And that teacher found out that story, Pat Maravel her name was, and asked me, asked the school guidance counselor if I could be her assistant in an eighth period. So she sat with me for 45 minutes every day for my entire junior high, seventh, eighth and ninth. And she was the first person to hug me and to say, I love you. And you know, when she first hugged me, she's like, what are you doing? I'm like, I don't know what to do, you know, I didn't know you were supposed to put your arms. I just stood there like this, you know.
- [44:38]
Abby Wambach
And now it's time to thank the companies who allow you to listen to We Can Do Hard Things for Free.
- [44:44]
Glennon Doyle
More than half of women experience vaginal dryness during or after menopause. That's where O Positive comes in. There are women's health companies serving over 5 million of us with supplements that support us through every stage of life. Their latest product, MENO Vaginal Moisture that's Men O is specifically formulated to support vaginal moisture and libido for women in perimenopause, menopause and postmenopause. It supports healthy sexual function, vaginal wetness, female arousal and desire, and even mood and relaxation. It uses ingredients that mimic estrogen to help maintain healthy vaginal tissue and moisture. Take proactive care of your health and head to o positive.com wecandohardthings or enter we can do hard things at checkout for 25% off your first purchase. That's O P O S I T I V.com WecandoHardThings for 25% off if you've been feeling meh, drained or like your engine's running on overdrive, your liver might be waving a tiny white flag. That's where dose for your liver steps in. It's a clinically studied liquid daily boost that helps your liver do what it's built to do. And the best part is that dose for your liver is not a giant pill or weird mystery powder. A two ounce shot that tastes like fresh orange juice minus the sugar, minus the junk, your liver handles over 500 tasks a day. When it's overwhelmed, you're the first to know. Two double blind placebo controlled studies show it can support healthy liver enzyme levels. Ready to give your liver the Support it deserves head to dosedaily.co hardthings or enter Hard Things to get things 35% off your first subscription. Your body does so much for you. Let's do something for it that's D O S E D A I L y C O hard things for 35% off your first month subscription.
- [47:03]
Amanda Nunes
Rosie, when did A League of Their Own come out? What was the year?
- [47:10]
Rosie O'Donnell
You know, I think we filmed it in 92, and I think it came out in 94, but I'm not exactly sure.
- [47:17]
Amanda Nunes
I'm just. I'm making this connection right now because that movie was really important to me growing up. I was 12, 14 years old when it was made and maybe came out, and.
- [47:30]
Quite frankly, women's sports became a thing.
- [47:37]
Rosie O'Donnell
Yes.
- [47:37]
Amanda Nunes
And I believe that potentially that your movie had a really big impact on that. Do you believe that?
- [47:45]
Rosie O'Donnell
I do. And I believe it was all Penny Marshall. She was a woman sports freak. She was a feminist. Even though I think she didn't like to think of herself as a feminist. You know, she was older than me, and. And I don't know that she wasn't an ardent feminist like me. She was kind of a closeted feminist in some ways. She didn't necessarily want to have the banner, but she really supported women and women's sports and women athletes in a way of no one else that I had met. And she loved sports. She was very athletic. She grew up with a mom who had a dance studio, and she was a dancer in the Bronx. It was all her vision. And I think she made a profound impact on women's sports in the history of the United States because of that move.
- [48:37]
Amanda Nunes
Totally.
- [48:37]
Rosie O'Donnell
I mean, I still see little kids coming to my door dressed as me, you know, and they. After they leave, my. My daughter will say, mommy, they didn't even know that you're Doris Murphy.
- [48:50]
I'm like, I know, honey.
- [48:51]
I know. They don't know.
- [48:53]
Amanda Nunes
It's just incredible. It's just incredible to me to think about that, because I just want to say thank you for that. Like, I know that it was a job for you, but to be the kid who was consuming that at the time helped me develop those weird dreams. You know, that was like, when I was around eighth grade.
- [49:12]
Rosie O'Donnell
I believe that. You know, it's funny, when I did that scene on the bus where I said, you know, it was written, I didn't make it up, but, you know, I never felt like a real girl or a normal girl, and. And then, you know, there's a lot of us, and I think we're okay. So after I did that take, Penny said, rosie, do it again, but don't do it so gay.
- [49:35]
She goes, you're doing it kind of gay. And I thought, it's a gay fucking speech. What? Like, what do you expect? You know? But I didn't say that to her. I was like, oh, yeah. She goes, yeah, do it again. And I did it again the same exact way. And she goes, much better.
- [49:49]
Abby Wambach
Much.
- [49:50]
Rosie O'Donnell
That was good.
- [49:51]
That was good. But that was the. You know, to me, that's what that speech said. And then we go to meet all these women, and even though many, many were still closeted in the 90s from doing that in World War II, they would say, you know, hi, I'm Beverly. This is my roommate, Nancy. How long have you been roommates? 52 years.
- [50:13]
Glennon Doyle
We got a rent control deal we couldn't give up.
- [50:16]
Rosie O'Donnell
Exactly. Like, I was like, okay. You know. But so much has. So many things have changed for gay women and for women in sports. I remember. I don't know, Abby, you're too young. But when I was around that age that you were, Billie Jean King and Martina Navratilova were accused of being gay. And they actually had to hold press conferences and deny it, and they did. And I remember it wounding me as a kid, feeling like, oh, my God, it's such a bad thing that they can't even say it. You know, it really had a profound effect on me, the fact that it was so foreboding, you know, that nobody could even talk about it in any way. And so I was sure when I did that scene to make it as gay as I could.
- [51:08]
Abby Wambach
Yes, and we appreciate that.
- [51:10]
Amanda Nunes
Well, you were speaking right to me. I mean, your whole character. I was just like, that's me.
- [51:15]
Abby Wambach
So good.
- [51:16]
Rosie O'Donnell
Yeah.
- [51:16]
And I think my character was madly in love with May, who was a straight girl, but she was mad. That's how I played it. I was madly in love with her and, you know, would do whatever she wanted and to be near her, and that was enough. And, you know, I know from reading all these stories of older lesbians, which, you know, I would love to do a documentary series show where I just go around the country and meet senior lesbian couples and have them tell me their love story, because that, to me, would be so fulfilling, you know, And I read all these stories about what they had to do in order to be with each other, and it's so heroic and so unbelievably.
- [52:03]
Inspiring and beautiful. And now with all these attacks on gay people and on trans People and, you know, we have to remember our history. We have to remember where we've come from, you know, in my lifetime. From that women I admire and adore having to say that in the time and now that they're icons of the gay community and how long it took for us to get here. And let us not forget the ones who got us here.
- [52:31]
Abby Wambach
You know, it's so beautiful. It makes me think of when you say the things that people.
- [52:39]
Deny or won't talk about. I think about that in parenting all the time, that we hide things from our kids because our, like, especially right now, that we are. Anyone who's paying attention or who's awake is in so much pain and is afraid and is angry. And we have this double thing where we. We feel like we're supposed to be hiding all of that from our children. Yeah. And I.
- [53:04]
Glennon Doyle
It's like Rosie's dad saying, you're not allowed to watch the news anymore.
- [53:07]
Rosie O'Donnell
Right, right.
- [53:08]
Abby Wambach
And there's some of that is good with kids. But I. I think I just want to say that maybe we have permission to show those things in appropriate ways to our kids, because when we don't show our fear, kids think, oh, mine is so bad that I can't even. It must be so shameful to be afraid.
- [53:31]
Rosie O'Donnell
No one else feels right.
- [53:33]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [53:34]
Rosie O'Donnell
Yeah.
- [53:34]
It's so true.
- [53:35]
And, you know, I have to say that, you know, it's always been a tightrope that I walk between how much to share and how much to. Not to my kids, you know, but they see my art. You know, when Gaza started, I couldn't help. Just like after 9, 11, I kept all the newspapers and then I had to glue them on canvases and paint on them because I couldn't throw them out. And so when Gaza started happening, and I knew what was going to happen, I couldn't help but taking all the photos, getting them printed, and then making collages with them to try to show people. Like the juxtaposition of my healthy American child at that age and this baby that was bombed to death. And, you know, and for my whole life I've done that. And when Parker got a little bit older, he's like, you know, it's so depressing, Mom. You take like the worst thing that happened to a kid and put my picture right next to him. Like, I was trying to show, you can love your child so much at that age and give them everything, and you can't protect them from what's going to happen, you know, But I always have to walk that tightrope of knowing when it's too much and when, you know, when you have to sort of pull back and, as my friends say, be the adult. You know, to be the adult, not the scared kid.
- [54:56]
Abby Wambach
Rosie, why does your bio say. Maybe you can just say Rosie O', Donnell, 40 years worth?
- [55:04]
Rosie O'Donnell
I don't know. Is that in my bio?
- [55:06]
I'm not sure.
- [55:07]
They said to me, they want to see a bio. I said, send them 40 years worth. You don't know why? Well, part of it is because I've been doing this for 40 years, and I think, what, do you want me to, like, list all my credits? Like, doing this for 40 years, it's like, just pick whatever you want. Like, and also, when you're famous for that long, like, people ascribe a character to you because everyone, you know takes you as a public figure and casts you as villain or hero or somewhere in between. And you have to be all right with the fact that in their universe, their algorithm, their fyp, you are that to them, but that doesn't mean you are that innately.
- [55:52]
Abby Wambach
I think one of the. The questions that people ask themselves most is, can I give what I've never gotten? So that is like a question of existence. If I've never experienced, if I've never seen healthy, romantic love, can I create it in my life? If I've never been mothered? Well, can I be a good mother? There seems to be this miracle where you can. So what did you do right?
- [56:19]
Rosie O'Donnell
Well, I can. You know, first of all, the first thing that comes to my mind is the things I do wrong.
- [56:24]
Right.
- [56:25]
So I kind of had a child's version of what a mother should be. So I thought, if I only had a mother, this is how my mother would be. And that's the kind of mother that I was. But unbeknownst to me, they hadn't suffered the loss of their mother. So they weren't thinking that. They were comparing me, maybe, to other mothers who were able to sort of function within the confines of the archetype of mother in our society. But I kind of didn't know. So I had a child's view. And what I wanted when I was a young kid was someone to take care of me and someone to smooth the road before me. And you know what I did, you guys? I made the road too smooth.
- [57:12]
My children.
- [57:13]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [57:13]
Rosie O'Donnell
So that even the little speed bump throws them, because I made it all blacktop for them. Let me just see what I can do. Let me go fix it in School. Let me see what I. How can I. Your friends are having trouble. Come here. Let me see what I. Let me pat down this blacktop and make it just. You don't have any bumps. Keep going, keep going. I love you. I love you. You know, we were not an I love you family. We were not a hugging family. So I overemphasized all of that. You know, we were not a family that talked about feelings. So I constantly talk about feelings. Like when I, you know, I wrote my kids recently something about their. Their trust, right? Because they're getting to be older now. And so I had. I go, we need to have a group family meeting about this, and I want to discuss with you the ramifications and the guidelines and whatnot. And all three of them wrote me back. Do we have to. Can't you just write me an email? Like, they didn't want all of my emotional stromanjer, you know, Let me tell you what it feels like. I hope this is the right thing, but I don't know. I never knew anyone with a trust fund. I didn't know how to set it up. It was probably a mistake. I'm sorry. I don't know what I was doing, you know, and so I can tell you everything I did wrong, but what I did right, I think we're gonna have to leave up to them, you know, we're gonna have to leave that up to. You know, I always say, listen, you guys write the books as soon as I'm doa, right? The day that they say, she's done, you go start writing that book, get a good deal and write whatever your truth is, you know, because it's hard to live in the shadow of a famous mother. When you have kids and you, like, you guys were walking through the mall with your babies, everybody would stop and say, oh, my God, those are the cutest babies in the world. Right? When you're with a famous mother, they stop and say, oh, my God, is that Rosie o'? Donnell? And they ignore the baby.
- [59:14]
You know, there's a lot of life in the shadow when your mother's famous. And it's hard to get over that because kids are used to everyone thinking that they're adorable when they're adorable and 4 and 5 and 6. But when they were that age, I was, you know, on TV every day in their living room. And that's a big shadow to be under, you know?
- [59:37]
Abby Wambach
It sure is. What is one of the only things that's keeping us sane.
- [59:43]
Amanda Nunes
Ish.
- [59:43]
Abby Wambach
Is art these days? Just Diving into. I mean, sometimes when I turn from my phone to a book, I can just feel. I don't know if it's just that.
- [59:58]
I just can feel my nervous system calm. I can feel that I'm in a different world that is saner and slower and more beautiful and intentional and not designed to stress me out. Anyway, Is there any art lately? Whether it's a book or a TV show or something, a song that has felt especially delightful and healing to you?
- [60:23]
Rosie O'Donnell
Well, I've been listening to Hozier since I got here to Ireland, and I went to the Electric Picnic, which was my first music festival I'd ever been to. Chapel Roan was. Was on first, and she was astounding. And it was like, excellence. Like, every single song was a music video. And with different staging and choreography and the lighting, it was, like, precise. It was like a Gaga show. And then out comes this spiritual tall Irish man who just took me away. You know, he took me away. And I've been listening to.
- [60:59]
His music lately and painting. You know, I do a lot of crafts, for lack of a better word, but like, doodles and paints and, you know, I'm. I'm not a trained artist in any way, but I love to do it. And. And when I need my brain to stop thinking, that's what I let my hands be busy. So lately I've been doing Legos, like, enormous. Like the gumball machine. Lego.
- [61:25]
Glennon Doyle
Oh, nice.
- [61:27]
Rosie O'Donnell
It's. It takes a lot, trust me.
- [61:28]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [61:29]
Rosie O'Donnell
And I. Painting and doing that. But there are people like Annie Lamott, who. Anytime she has anything, I run and grab it. And.
- [61:38]
You know.
- [61:40]
What do you think about that new Elizabeth Gilbert book?
- [61:43]
Abby Wambach
Well, Elizabeth Gilbert is one of my best friends, and I walked.
- [61:47]
Rosie O'Donnell
You read the book?
- [61:47]
Abby Wambach
Yeah, I walked through that with them. We were.
- [61:51]
Rosie O'Donnell
We were there when it was in the middle of that. Did you know this was going on?
- [61:56]
Abby Wambach
I knew some of it, but I didn't know all of it. When I first read the book a while ago, I felt like, oh, my friend was going through so much more than I knew she was going through. My heart was hurt reading it.
- [62:11]
Rosie O'Donnell
Yeah. It was so interesting. Maybe this is unfair, but I don't know her at all. Obviously, I've never met her, but I've read everything she's written. I felt like you presented me one story of Eat, Pray, Love of you in sort of.
- [62:27]
A mindset that I understood, and it turned out to be a completely different one.
- [62:32]
Abby Wambach
Oh, interesting.
- [62:34]
Rosie O'Donnell
You know what I'm saying?
- [62:35]
Like, it made me go, really? Elizabeth Gilbert like, how did this happen to my Elizabeth Gilbert from Eat, Pray, Love? How did she get so lost in that? How did she not understand a woman who seemed to have so much.
- [62:52]
Introspective brilliance, not have anything in the midst of that?
- [62:57]
Abby Wambach
I mean, I can tell you that one of my favorite things in the world about Liz Gilbert is. I think what you're touching on is one of the things that makes her so magical to me, which is that.
- [63:10]
So my faith tradition is Christianity. That's my first language. I always go to that. That's how I see the world, really. And there's something beautiful about, like, the Trinity, right, Where there's God, and God always is just the spiritual knower of everything. Just this wise, sage, knowing. And then there's the Jesus who's just like, I'm just gonna be human with you, and, like, be all messy and go through everything and feel all the humanity of being human. Because that is love is being in it. And I always say, feel like Liz is both at the same time. Like, Liz has this knowing. That is a knowing, a spiritual intelligence that I've never experienced with anyone else, truly.
- [63:56]
Rosie O'Donnell
I mean, well, that's what I got from her books, right? So then this book, it felt like you took me on a U turn. Honey, what did you do? I had you in a different place. Just like I was saying about when you're famous, but people cast you in a role. I cast her in a role of sagey, spiritual woman, feminist, icon.
- [64:17]
Abby Wambach
Live there. She knows that. And she could stay there, but, like, in my imagination, Jesus is like, I'm just. I could stay up there, but I'm gonna come and roll around with you and. And experience all of it.
- [64:31]
Rosie O'Donnell
Live it all.
- [64:32]
Abby Wambach
She does. Like, she's as wise as you think she is, and she's as human as you think she is. And she's both at the same time, and she won't be pegged down in either one. And that's why everybody feels betrayed by her, no matter what story she tells.
- [64:48]
Rosie O'Donnell
Yeah, it must be hard.
- [64:50]
Amanda Nunes
I also think that the time that Eat, Pray, Love came out, she, like the world, was only accepting women that Liz wrote about in one way. And yes, in Eat, Pray, Love. And now it feels like what she's doing is beyond what.
- [65:08]
Rosie O'Donnell
What is acceptable.
- [65:10]
Amanda Nunes
What is acceptable right now. But she's creating the path for it.
- [65:14]
Abby Wambach
Yes.
- [65:15]
Amanda Nunes
She was doing something back then that was kind of revolutionary. Like a woman going out on her own to figure her own life out and not being reliant on a man to do it. And now she. This new book to me is like. Not only. It's like this, this, this idea of, of a woman going through grief and what that looks like, but really getting to the bottom of some of the. The totality of our neurosis down here and what we kind of experience and to showcase it in a way and to go through it in the way that she kind of is doing publicly now. Obviously, with the release of this book. She's one of the baddest ass I know.
- [65:53]
Abby Wambach
And also, I think it's strange when people read Eat, Pray, Love and think it was all sorted, like, Eat, Pray, Love. So what she talks about so much is her desperation for love and her desperation for. And this is just. I guess I, as a person who have been. I have been dealing with my thing with eating disorders since I was 10.
- [66:15]
Rosie O'Donnell
Right.
- [66:15]
Abby Wambach
And I am still in fucking recovery and still in some ways as clueless as I was when I was 10. I, I have to assume I'm making some sort of progress, but it often doesn't feel like that. It just feels like this is my thing and gonna be my thing that I circle around forever. And I think that's just Liz's thing.
- [66:35]
Amanda Nunes
Yeah.
- [66:36]
Abby Wambach
And so she's.
- [66:37]
Rosie O'Donnell
I guess you're right.
- [66:38]
I guess it's the extreme.
- [66:40]
You know, the extreme that it went.
- [66:42]
To, like, scared me, I think. I know I'm very boring. Like, I never would, you know, I smoked pot, but that's it. I never did anything else because I thought I was, you know, gonna jump out a window and hallucinate and kill someone. I just, I'm such an. Like everyone says, oh, you're so tough. You're. You know, there's not a lot of Rosie o' Donnell and Rosie o' Donnell because I'm not, I'm a softy. I'm like a mush and. But I have this exterior from New York, tough. I'll tell you off. I'll tell you what's wrong, but I'm not like that. So when I read this book, I thought, this is my Elizabeth Gilbert. What the hell happened to her? You know, like, it scared the shit out of me, you know?
- [67:20]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [67:21]
Glennon Doyle
Yeah. A lot has happened to her. That's what's so cool, what has happened to her. And she's not preserving an image of herself. She's just sharing what's happened to her, which is wild.
- [67:34]
Rosie O'Donnell
She is brave to admit it all. I agree. And you know, people like me got scared about it, just so you know.
- [67:41]
Glennon Doyle
But it's Understandable to be scared. You know, we like to have our things as we understood them. And it's interesting, kind of full circle for this. It's like the abandonment thing that I thought I knew something. I thought I knew what my life would be. I thought I knew what my country would be. I thought I knew. And then this change and it's fear and it's. It's really a human thing to want things to be the way you thought they were.
- [68:09]
Rosie O'Donnell
So true. It's so true. And growth only comes from when you press the boundaries, you know? Not that I would ever be able to press those kinds of boundaries, because I wouldn't, you know, because I'm a nerd. Seriously. I like to stay home and do Lego and watercolors and Sharpies. I mean, so does Liz.
- [68:25]
Abby Wambach
Liz spends hours a day collaging, doing what you do. She sits at my table, she brings all of her little accoutrements, and if we don't have enough, we have to go to Michael's and buy some more little stickers. And then hours and hours collaging.
- [68:41]
Rosie O'Donnell
Yeah, I gotta say, we. We gotta. I have to meet her one day because I think we would have a lot to talk about if I could get over being mildly afraid. You know what I'm saying?
- [68:51]
Abby Wambach
I think she'd like that.
- [68:53]
Amanda Nunes
Sure.
- [68:54]
Abby Wambach
Rosie, you are so special. We are always have been on Team Rosie forever and will remain on Team Rosie forever. If you make the old lesbians documentary, please call us.
- [69:07]
Amanda Nunes
We want to be a part of it.
- [69:08]
Rosie O'Donnell
We want to help. Totally. Let's do that, ladies. I want to do it. I'm so interested. I'm so wanting to tell their stories. I'm so wanting to tell our stories, you know, especially nowadays in this political climate. I want, you know, gay women to know where we're from and what we had to fight to get to where we are and how we need to hold on to our dignity amongst this horrific onslaught against our community.
- [69:37]
Abby Wambach
Amen. Love to your family, Rosie. Please stay in touch with us.
- [69:42]
Rosie O'Donnell
And to you three, thank you so much. And Abby, I'll never forget when you were playing, I watched you all the time and I was like, look at that one. And I don't know if, you know, but when. When everything happened with the, you know, dui I wrote you. Did you ever get that email?
- [69:58]
Amanda Nunes
No.
- [69:58]
Abby Wambach
You wrote to her?
- [70:00]
Rosie O'Donnell
I wrote you an email at that time? Yeah.
- [70:02]
Abby Wambach
What did you say?
- [70:03]
Rosie O'Donnell
I said that, you know, you're a champion and you can get through this, too. Like, you have everything else. And there are people rooting for you, Rosie.
- [70:13]
Amanda Nunes
I'm gonna look and see how that. I don't know how I didn't get that.
- [70:17]
Rosie O'Donnell
Yeah, it was way, way back when, but I definitely did.
- [70:20]
Amanda Nunes
I'm almost 10 years sober from that.
- [70:22]
Rosie O'Donnell
Day, so Good for you. It was really so that's the best.
- [70:26]
Amanda Nunes
Thing that ever happened.
- [70:28]
Rosie O'Donnell
And, you know, it's interesting because that's right when my daughter was in so much trouble. She still is suffering, my Chelsea, but was 10 years ago when she ran away, and it was the same time as that. And I remember people struggling with substance abuse and thinking they all need to hear that you haven't abandoned them.
- [70:46]
Abby Wambach
You know, so many people show up when things are good. When I'm down, whether something's going on on the interwebs or I'm being whatever's happening, I never forget the people who reach out. Then you're one of those.
- [71:01]
Rosie O'Donnell
Thank you. I try my best. All right, ladies.
- [71:04]
Thank you so much.
- [71:05]
Thank you so much.
- [71:07]
Abby Wambach
Pod Squad. We love you, Rosie. We love you. We are in this together. We can do hard Things, and we'll see you here next time. We Can Do Hard Things is an independent production podcast brought to you by Treat Media. Treat Media makes art for humans who want to stay human. And you can follow us. We can do hard things on Instagram and we can do hard things show on TikTok.