← We Can Do Hard Things
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- [00:00]
Glennon Doyle
I'm always looking for simple ways to make my day feel a little more meaningful and Masterclass has become my go to for that. In just a few minutes, I can learn from world class instructors whether I'm waiting for my coffee or winding down before bed. One class that really stuck out with me. James clear on building better habits. He said, you don't rise to the level of your goals. You fall to the level of your systems. That one line just flipped switch for me. For just $10 a month, billed annually, you get unlimited access to 200 plus classes from the best in the world across businesses, wellness, cooking, writing and more. And with thousands of short on the go lessons across 13 categories, you can learn your way on your time. Right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership@masterclass.com hardthings that's 15% off@masterclass.com hardthings masterclass.com hardthings I think.
- [01:05]
Abby Wambach
That I know more than anyone on this entire planet that having the right therapist to talk to can make a life changing difference. That's why I think ALMA is so cool. Alma connects you with real therapists who understand your unique experience. You can use their directory to search for someone who specializes in the areas that matter most to you, whether that's anxiety, relationships, or anything else. And what stands out to me about Alma is that 97% of people seeing a therapist through Alma say their therapist made them feel seen and heard. You know, I love that that level of connection isn't something you can get from scrolling through online advice or following social media. It's about finding someone who truly understands your journey and is dedicated to helping you make progress, better with people, better with Alma. Visit hello Alma.com hardthings to get started and schedule a free consultation today. That's hello a LMA.com hardthings.
- [02:20]
Amanda Doyle
Welcome to We can do hard things.
- [02:25]
Abby Wambach
Well today, love bugs, we have the second installment of the Newlywed Game.
- [02:35]
Amanda Doyle
The Newlywed ish game.
- [02:37]
Abby Wambach
Yes.
- [02:37]
Unknown
Abby's in the hot seat today.
- [02:39]
Abby Wambach
Okay.
- [02:39]
Unknown
H o t t S e a t right. And I'm going to be asking her questions about you. But on Tuesday we did me asking you questions about her.
- [02:52]
Abby Wambach
Okay. And I know that you're wanting this to be a competition, Abbey, because you want everything to be a competition. So, yes, to that end, I will remind you that I did really, really well. I think I got them. All right.
- [03:05]
Unknown
I mean, to be clear, I don't feel like it's just you doing really well because you answered the questions and Then she answered. So I think you all did very well together. Right.
- [03:15]
Abby Wambach
Well, I would suggest that the was upon me to guess what she would say about herself. All her responsibility was, was to respond authentically in her own feelings.
- [03:30]
Unknown
Right. Which I consider an accomplishment to respond authentically in your own feelings. So I also say brava to Abby.
- [03:38]
Abby Wambach
Actually, that's true. Very good.
- [03:41]
Unknown
She could have thrown it. Yeah.
- [03:42]
Amanda Doyle
But I do think that is the way that I'm thinking about this. Like Glennon, she was answering the questions. And so all of what we did before on Tuesday, that those are Glennon's points because she had to answer them. And then I would confirm or deny. So those points will go to Glennon and how it goes today, those points will all go to me.
- [04:08]
Unknown
Okay, great. Well, let the competition begin. So you sister have to leave.
- [04:14]
Abby Wambach
Okay, tell me twice.
- [04:17]
Amanda Doyle
Get out of here.
- [04:18]
Unknown
Don't cheat. Cheaters never win. Except for most of the time.
- [04:21]
Amanda Doyle
Can you actually text me where you're sitting?
- [04:24]
Abby Wambach
I'm just gonna sit outside on the stairs.
- [04:25]
Amanda Doyle
Oh, no, no. You gotta go away. You can hear it. Yes. I went all the way upstairs in our bedroom and sat on the couch. And text me a picture of yourself when you get there.
- [04:35]
Unknown
You want her to verify? Yeah, Cuz she's there.
- [04:37]
Amanda Doyle
She is a cheater. Even though she says she's not competitive. If you're not competitive, then why ever cheat? Truth.
- [04:48]
Unknown
It's a great question.
- [04:49]
Amanda Doyle
She's yelling.
- [04:49]
Unknown
Great question. Either super competitive or super insecure.
- [04:52]
Amanda Doyle
One of the two.
- [04:53]
Unknown
Maybe both. All right, Is she gone or are we waiting until she verifies?
- [04:58]
Amanda Doyle
I hear her feet going up the stairs. I think we can go.
- [05:02]
Unknown
Okay. All right. Abby Wombach. Speaking of cheating, have you looked at my questions?
- [05:07]
Amanda Doyle
No. Okay.
- [05:08]
Unknown
She says no. Okay, Abby, what's Glennon's favorite room in your house?
- [05:16]
Amanda Doyle
This is difficult because of course, it would be our bedroom because she loves sleeping. It's like her favorite thing when we get into bed at night. But because her art stuff. Let me just give you a little bit of a visual.
- [05:35]
Unknown
I do want that.
- [05:36]
Amanda Doyle
We don't have an art room in our house. We don't have enough space. So upstairs on the top floor where we live, the living room and the kitchen are on the top floor. So Glennon set up her art studio at the end of our dining room table. And then there's a little nook where she sits and reads in the mornings. So sometimes. So I would say that area of that room, like the room is a big room. So it's you have the kitchen and the living room and the dining room all, like, right next to each other.
- [06:07]
Unknown
Yeah. It's all one open space.
- [06:09]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [06:10]
Unknown
Yes. Okay, so the reading nook slash art section of dining room table.
- [06:15]
Amanda Doyle
Yes. But I also will say that she very likely could say the bedroom, because she loves going to sleep.
- [06:21]
Unknown
That's where the magic happens. And by magic, we mean sleeping. Okay, which one of you is most likely to initiate a home improvement project?
- [06:32]
Amanda Doyle
Oh, Glennon. 100%. Okay.
- [06:35]
Unknown
Okay.
- [06:36]
Amanda Doyle
For an example, she wanted to have Christmas in June. Oh, right. She needed to, like, a change up of energy, and she wanted to put up all the Christmas decorations. And I called marriage. I was like, no, that means I have to go get all the shit. I gotta put up the Christmas tree. No, I don't want to. She loves home improvement projects. She loves thinking about things. I mean, the amount of time we spend on Zillow and never buy a house is illegal. It should be illegal. Yes.
- [07:06]
Unknown
Anticipation is 90% of the experience.
- [07:09]
Amanda Doyle
Right, exactly.
- [07:10]
Unknown
So you could just. You could just anticipate and anticipate and never do anything, and then you have 90% out of the 10. That's pretty good.
- [07:17]
Amanda Doyle
Yes. One of the things about Glennon is that she likes to start the projects, and then, you know, she'll go through the whole house and clean out every cabinet in the house, and I just have to wait until she's done, and there's just piles of stuff to get thrown out. So it's. She's a starter of home improvement projects. Yes, for sure. She's the one that initiates initiator.
- [07:43]
Unknown
Not completed. Okay. What is Glennon's favorite family tradition?
- [07:48]
Amanda Doyle
Um, I mean, the Christmas holiday season. Yes, Literally.
- [07:53]
Unknown
She's really good at that. Other than anything related to the kids. What do you think is Glennon's proudest achievement?
- [08:03]
Amanda Doyle
I think her sobriety.
- [08:04]
Unknown
Mm.
- [08:06]
Amanda Doyle
She's said that before. And I think that probably, maybe even more recent is just this new. This newfound freedom she is experiencing. Though it's been difficult to cultivate over the last couple of years of this therapy. This is how we kind of define sobriety now, is just more peace, more freedom. So that definitely that.
- [08:29]
Unknown
What's a challenge you've overcome as a couple?
- [08:31]
Amanda Doyle
There have been a few. Well, I think the initial, like me coming into the family was a challenge and one that was really beautifully navigated by Glennon. She handled it so truthfully, so honestly with the kids and with Craig, and not an easy situation. I also think that we've gone through phases in our Relationship in our marriage that has allowed us, through different forms of therapy, through our own individual therapy, has allowed us to, I think, understand each other better and communicate through conflict so much better. You know, early days, I just took everything so personally, and it was like I was so scared of her leaving me. And I think we really try hard not to take advantage of our. Our softest parts and, like, our deepest wounds. But I think that she might say one of those two things. Okay.
- [09:42]
Unknown
Amazing. Okay. The working through conflict, communicating through conflict, and the blending your family.
- [09:47]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [09:48]
Unknown
Together.
- [09:48]
Amanda Doyle
Okay.
- [09:49]
Unknown
Who's more likely to burst out laughing at inappropriate times?
- [09:52]
Amanda Doyle
Oh, my God. Glennon.
- [09:54]
Unknown
Okay.
- [09:55]
Amanda Doyle
I think we've talked about it on the pod before, but we'll be in a conflict, be in a. Like, a fight, and I will come bring some sort of grievance to her about if she's hurt my feelings. And I'll be so earnest, and sometimes I'll be crying or even in tears or really upset. And I think her laughter is indicative of her guilt. I think that there's an overwhelming sense of. Well, it's just an overwhelming emotion that's happening. And I don't know if she. I also wonder if it's because I'm being so earnest so quickly and so vulnerable that it's almost, like, offensive to her because she's not learned that mentality and that way of being.
- [10:43]
Unknown
This is a real thing. We need to figure this out. I want to do a podcast on this of, like, Glennon and I both are, like, earnestness is like. Has a disgust response. It's like a nervous system disgust or sabotage with the laughter or something. That is so odd. I don't know if it's because we grew up in such a sarcastic home that everything was sort of addressed through the sarcasm prism to the heart of it, and just going to the heart of it feels so odd. I don't know.
- [11:20]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, it's funny. And unfortunately for me, the laughter also is like a. Like a levity in the intensity of my feelings. And so when she laughs, it makes me laugh. And so it's like, it eases my upsetness in a way, or it eases the intensity of which I'm feeling. And I'm like.
- [11:41]
Unknown
But it could easily go the other way.
- [11:43]
Amanda Doyle
No, totally.
- [11:43]
Unknown
If you were, like, crying and she laughed, you could easily be like, oh, that's further evidence that, like, I should be upset.
- [11:50]
Amanda Doyle
One time I looked at her and I said, do you see my sadness? And she said, yes. And I'm like, does it make you sad? And she said yes, and she just burst out laughing. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. She's like one of the biggest empaths I've ever met. But when it comes to her most personal relationships, it's really. It's almost like too close to the fire.
- [12:17]
Unknown
Yeah. Oh, my God. That's amazing. Okay, who's more likely to forget important dates?
- [12:24]
Amanda Doyle
Oh, this is a good one. I think she's going to say her, but. Okay. We both forget things all the time. Timing, scheduling. We've got a lot going on. Things fall through.
- [12:37]
Unknown
What is something Glennon is always right about?
- [12:40]
Amanda Doyle
Oh, facts. She's the fact finder. She remembers things. I don't remember things. I generally have, like, the right idea, the bigger picture, but, like, in the focused, factual moment, she wins. She's right about that. Grammar.
- [13:00]
Unknown
Grammar.
- [13:02]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, stories, like remembering, like, storytelling and.
- [13:06]
Unknown
Remembering stories, like how it actually happened versus how you.
- [13:09]
Amanda Doyle
I'm like a 75% correct story storyteller, and she's like a 99er.
- [13:16]
Unknown
Amazing. What is something she seldom write about?
- [13:19]
Amanda Doyle
Hmm. Numbers. Numbers, numbers and time.
- [13:25]
Unknown
Who's the better budget keeper?
- [13:27]
Amanda Doyle
I am. Well, I mean, yeah, Glennon doesn't do any of that.
- [13:31]
Unknown
That's interesting, because you did not used to be.
- [13:34]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [13:34]
Unknown
You used to be a budget buster.
- [13:36]
Amanda Doyle
I was a budget buster. And what I realized when we married was that Glennon wasn't going to take the reins, and. And so I had to do it.
- [13:44]
Unknown
What is a funny habit about Glennon that makes you smile?
- [13:47]
Amanda Doyle
Funny habit. Okay. Something that makes me smile. I. This is gonna sound so weird, and it might not be funny, but, like, I am so amazed at how much she reads books. You know, like a normal person. Like the. The person who's listening to this podcast. Like, you know when you have, like, 10 or 15 minutes to spare, like, you grab your phone and you're, like, seeing what the kids are doing or, you know, looking at your emails. If she is, like, five minutes to spare, she's reading a book. I also think she might say that she's always fidgeting with her hands.
- [14:27]
Unknown
Oh, yes.
- [14:28]
Amanda Doyle
She might also say that that's an annoying thing. Annoying habit. I think that she does. I don't. I think it's cute because I know that she's, like, trying to, like, regulate. Oh, I think it's funny. Sometimes when we're watching tv, she will draw one. One word in cursive and she'll write it over and over and over again and erase it. Like, fake. Erase it with her hand. So with her left hand, let's just, like, say she's right. Somebody will say a word that was interesting to her. She'll start writing the word and then erase it, and then write it again. And then erase it and then write it.
- [15:04]
Unknown
But she's not writing it. It's just with her finger.
- [15:06]
Amanda Doyle
Just with her finger on the couch, on her leg. And then she'll erase it, and then.
- [15:10]
Unknown
With her hand, she wipes it away.
- [15:12]
Amanda Doyle
Wipes it away. Like, she's like, gotta start over. And then just does it. And so every once in a while, I'll say, what word are you writing? And she'll be like, details. I'm like, oh, that's fun. That is so funny.
- [15:25]
Unknown
Okay, when you're in the car, who controls the radio?
- [15:28]
Amanda Doyle
Amma.
- [15:29]
Unknown
Yeah. I knew it was gonna be one of the kids. Okay.
- [15:32]
Amanda Doyle
One of the children, for sure.
- [15:33]
Unknown
If Glennon could have a superpower, what would it be?
- [15:36]
Amanda Doyle
Probably to be less in her head to be. To not think so much.
- [15:42]
Unknown
Yeah. And she already has a superpower that she most would probably want, which is a speed reading.
- [15:47]
Amanda Doyle
That's right.
- [15:48]
Unknown
I didn't know. I mean, she is a bonafide speed reader. She can read a book in, like.
- [15:55]
Amanda Doyle
Two hours, you guys. She read three books in three days when we were in Seattle for ama soccer tournament just recently.
- [16:01]
Unknown
It's humiliating because I actually am a very, very slow reader, which is a special slice of hell if you went to law school. And I didn't know that I was a slow reader, but I am. And, like, we'll get an email 30 seconds later. It'll be like, pages and pages of things, and she'll call me and be like, what do you think? And I'm on, like, paragraph two of the thing. And it's humiliating because she's just wild.
- [16:30]
Amanda Doyle
I have to read next to her some emails. Like, I'll be like, oh, look at this. Or like, a text that. A longer text. And she's scrolling, you know, she's like, going. And I'm like. I read three words like, what the hell is happening?
- [16:44]
Glennon Doyle
It's.
- [16:44]
Amanda Doyle
It's embarrassing.
- [16:45]
Unknown
It is. It's embarrassing.
- [16:46]
Amanda Doyle
I would have said speed reading, but I do actually think that she likes the whole vibe of it. Like the sitting and the being there and the doing it.
- [16:56]
Unknown
Yes.
- [16:57]
Amanda Doyle
So, yeah, I don't know this one. I'm assuming that there's something that she's gonna say. Like to be magically dressed in the morning and comfortable in whatever she's wearing every day, or to be invisible Yeah.
- [17:10]
Unknown
I feel like she loves to observe things. She might just be like, I would like no one to be able to see me, but me to be able.
- [17:16]
Amanda Doyle
To see or maybe like having the, the ability to, like, know what other people are thinking.
- [17:21]
Abby Wambach
Oh.
- [17:21]
Unknown
Oh, God. That's my personal nightmare. I would never, ever, ever want to know what people are thinking.
- [17:26]
Amanda Doyle
Same. Oh.
- [17:36]
Glennon Doyle
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- [18:40]
Amanda Doyle
To tell you about Vuori.
- [18:42]
Glennon Doyle
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- [18:53]
Amanda Doyle
Just say, it's hands down the softest.
- [18:55]
Glennon Doyle
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- [20:04]
Amanda Doyle
That's the Ollie effect.
- [20:05]
Glennon Doyle
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- [20:15]
Amanda Doyle
Preservatives, that matters to me.
- [20:18]
Glennon Doyle
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- [20:52]
Unknown
Okay, if Glennon asked you to grab her treat from the store on the way home, what do you buy?
- [21:00]
Amanda Doyle
This is difficult because I would have to get two things. I would have to get something that I know she wants, and then I would also have to get her something that she thinks that she will want. So food and Glennon is a difficult. It's a difficult ask. So I would get something like a green juice.
- [21:27]
Unknown
Okay. Is that what she thinks she wants or what she wants?
- [21:29]
Amanda Doyle
That's what she thinks she wants.
- [21:31]
Unknown
Okay. So green juice. She'll be like, that's what I want. Thank you. But what she really wants is.
- [21:35]
Amanda Doyle
What she really wants is, like animal crackers or. Or some sort of, like, Doritos or chip that she really likes. Okay.
- [21:47]
Unknown
So you have to get both.
- [21:48]
Amanda Doyle
You have to get both.
- [21:50]
Unknown
Okay.
- [21:51]
Amanda Doyle
I feel like I'm gonna fail. This. This is going to absolutely go poorly. I.
- [21:55]
Unknown
But maybe she doesn't know. She will be learning things, secrets about her that you've been keeping. Okay, fill in the blank. One thing Glennon would never do is sports. What does Glennon talk about the most?
- [22:13]
Amanda Doyle
Patriarchy. And I would also say the children.
- [22:20]
Unknown
Okay, patriarch and the children. Not many people know it, but Glennon.
- [22:24]
Amanda Doyle
Is really good at a lot of things. It's so annoying. She's really good at distilling complex ideas. Simply.
- [22:38]
Unknown
This is a thing. She calls it the. What does she call it? The simple after the complicated that she feels like she's got to really dive super, super deep in.
- [22:47]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [22:47]
Unknown
And like, immerse herself to come out with, like the one sentence thing that she.
- [22:52]
Amanda Doyle
Yes. And it's so. One of the things that I know about her is that when the moment happens when she's done it, when she's completed the simple after the complicated. She has this aura, this energy that's like, I fucking did it. She's like, read that. And I'm like, oh, shit, it's gonna be good.
- [23:14]
Unknown
What is something you think would improve Glennon's life if she would only freaking.
- [23:18]
Amanda Doyle
Do it, Honestly, at this point in her life? Stop trying to fix herself.
- [23:26]
Unknown
Ooh.
- [23:31]
Amanda Doyle
Ooh. That is compelling. Yeah. And I might get some backlash from the pod squad around this, because I think that she's done so much beautiful work, and it's like. I think that we need to, like, be in all of the after of the work for right now. I don't know. Work begets work, and then talking about your problems begets more problems at times. And I think we've done solid foundational building work, but I want to, like, live in it for a while.
- [24:04]
Unknown
Yeah.
- [24:04]
Amanda Doyle
I don't want to jump to the next thing quite yet.
- [24:06]
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [24:07]
Amanda Doyle
I shouldn't talk about it. I don't want to. Yeah, yeah. That's very.
- [24:11]
Unknown
Because, yeah. It could just be your own mental health. Could be just another, like, workaholism where you're like, I need to put up a new goal and a new goal and a new goal, and I'm. It's never good enough. And it's never enough.
- [24:21]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [24:22]
Unknown
If Glennon had to spend a hundred dollars on something, what would it be?
- [24:26]
Amanda Doyle
Probably, like, a. A shirt or a mani. Pedi. Okay. Or like, a massage or something. Yeah.
- [24:36]
Unknown
Yeah. What sense would Glennon say is best in you? Okay, so Glennon's saying this about you, Abby. Your sense of time, your sense of humor, your sense of adventure, or your common sense adventure. Okay. What's Glennon's favorite season?
- [24:53]
Amanda Doyle
Summer.
- [24:55]
Unknown
More than five years ago, when Glennon wrote Untamed, she described herself as midnight blue. And a lot has changed since then. What color would you say she is now? What color would she say she is now?
- [25:08]
Amanda Doyle
That's good. I would say she would say about herself that she's kind of like this yellowish beigey. I think that she might say that she's getting closer to that pearly, iridescent. Like, she's on that. The continuum towards there. But I think that she thinks that she's not quite there yet.
- [25:31]
Unknown
Amazing. All right, you did it. Okay, let's see. Let's see how the cookie crumbles.
- [25:37]
Amanda Doyle
I think I'm gonna do terrible. Glennon, she's coming.
- [25:41]
Unknown
I'm excited to see what she says. Because it's interesting. I know. Her theory is that, like, the person who's answering is the one carrying the lift, but the person who's giving the answers about themselves is doing some serious introspection. Or not it's true. Or self delusion.
- [25:56]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, it's tr. And also, maybe she's. We'll see. We'll see how. How I did.
- [26:01]
Unknown
We'll see. I'm excited. Hi.
- [26:04]
Amanda Doyle
It went great. I'm. I'm not sure.
- [26:06]
Unknown
Uh. Oh, I'm not sure. I'm not sure. She said no one can ever be sure.
- [26:12]
Amanda Doyle
It's hard. There's, like, so many different options. Because I know you.
- [26:16]
Abby Wambach
Well, I'm a.
- [26:17]
Amanda Doyle
You're not a one kind of exactly.
- [26:19]
Abby Wambach
You're confident I'm an enigma wrapped in a puzzle.
- [26:22]
Unknown
Not deny you contain multitudes.
- [26:24]
Abby Wambach
Trauma. Okay. I'm just gonna note that my wife does not look confident. We have a code at soccer. At AMAs soccer games, we can't sit next to each other because one time we didn't sit next to each other, and the team did really well. So now Abby doesn't let me sit anywhere near her because she. Of course, because she's not just a little stitious, she's superstitious. So a couple times a day, a game, I walk over to her from my spot far away on the sidelines, and I say, how are we doing? Because I can watch the whole game but not be sure how we're doing. Right.
- [26:58]
Unknown
You know, I understand.
- [27:01]
Abby Wambach
And if she says. She always only says one word. Okay? She says, good. But if she says it this way, good, that means we're doing shit. If she says, good, good. That means, oh, I'm so excited. We're really doing good. So what I'm saying is, when I came down here, I got a face. Good.
- [27:29]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, Good.
- [27:30]
Unknown
I think I'm feeling pretty good.
- [27:32]
Amanda Doyle
Well, there's so many answers to each question that it's like, how do I know what you're gonna say? It's, you know, it's hard.
- [27:38]
Abby Wambach
And I'm a shapeshifter in life, so I understand this.
- [27:42]
Amanda Doyle
I did give a lot of two and three possible answers.
- [27:45]
Abby Wambach
Okay, now that's already a clue. I don't know if we're allowed that, but I will accept it. I'll offer a few things as well.
- [27:52]
Unknown
Okay. That could backfire. Cause what if you offer one and then you offer two that weren't her two? So just think strategically.
- [28:00]
Abby Wambach
Number one, Landmines everywhere.
- [28:02]
Unknown
What's Glennon's favorite room in the house. Glennon, what would you say is your favorite room in your house?
- [28:09]
Abby Wambach
The family room, where we watch TV and read and sit and cozy and couch.
- [28:14]
Unknown
She said that it was two things. The family room area, where it's the reading of the nook, slash the part of your dining room table where the art gets done.
- [28:27]
Abby Wambach
Yes, that's same.
- [28:29]
Unknown
And then also the bedroom, because that's where the magic happens, which means sleeping.
- [28:34]
Abby Wambach
Which is your favorite. Yeah, I think that's right.
- [28:36]
Unknown
Number two, which one of you is most likely to initiate a home improvement project?
- [28:42]
Abby Wambach
Me, for sure.
- [28:44]
Unknown
Correct. What is your favorite family tradition?
- [28:50]
Abby Wambach
Christmas.
- [28:51]
Unknown
Great. Other than anything relating to the kids, what would you say is your proudest achievement?
- [28:58]
Abby Wambach
I mean, I don't know. Work, writing, this team together. Rising. My marriage. My marriage. My marriage. No, no.
- [29:06]
Unknown
She gave. What is your actual sobriety? You're just not so bright.
- [29:08]
Abby Wambach
Sobriety. Yes. Yes, yes. Yeah, Sobriety. That's right. Good job, Glennon.
- [29:14]
Unknown
You mean Abby. Okay. What is a challenge you've overcome as a couple?
- [29:22]
Abby Wambach
So many.
- [29:23]
Amanda Doyle
That's right.
- [29:25]
Abby Wambach
I think the first one that came to mind is power and control. Like, vibes of. We had, like, the honeymoon period, and then after that, there was whatever's the opposite of the honeymoon period. It was no moon. Scorching daylight. Just like the moon has set, the sun is arisen.
- [29:48]
Unknown
And now, yeah, it's blazing sun period. Scorched earth period.
- [29:52]
Abby Wambach
And it has lit up the sun. All the things that were hidden by the moon. And during that time, all of the things that I fell in love with Abby about started to drive me batshit crazy, and vice versa. And so we had a long couple years of, like, a power struggle, and we had to learn how to argue and learn that neither of us were gonna change really all that much. And so it was a time of acceptance.
- [30:19]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [30:19]
Abby Wambach
So that was a toughie. I think a lot of people don't even get out of that phase, so I'm proud of us for that.
- [30:24]
Amanda Doyle
That's right. And I didn't necessarily completely say that, but I kind of said it with conflict and getting through it a little.
- [30:31]
Abby Wambach
And I feel like communicating through conflict. I feel like we would say it was half learning strategies and really working our asses off inside of conflict, and half just a little bit of going dead inside. Right.
- [30:40]
Amanda Doyle
About just being like, well, that's who they are.
- [30:43]
Unknown
This is what it is.
- [30:44]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [30:44]
Amanda Doyle
This is who they're gonna be forever. Yeah.
- [30:46]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. Sometimes you keep it alive by going dead inside.
- [30:50]
Unknown
Right. Yeah. There's a lot to Be said hopefulness. Other people might call it radical acceptance. But going dead inside is another way of putting it.
- [30:57]
Abby Wambach
Yes.
- [30:57]
Amanda Doyle
I also said that because I went back to the beginning and the way that I kind of came into the family I think was a real challenge.
- [31:04]
Abby Wambach
Oh yeah. The blended family ness of it all.
- [31:06]
Unknown
Yeah, that was a challenge.
- [31:08]
Abby Wambach
But I don't feel like that's something we've overcome. That's just something that we continue to deal with and.
- [31:15]
Amanda Doyle
Oh, so you think we've overcome the power and control struggle?
- [31:19]
Abby Wambach
Mostly. I mean, I think we still get hitched like a little hitch, we still get a little hiccup, but I think mostly we have great.
- [31:27]
Unknown
Do you think mostly you have Abby? She said great in a very high pitched way.
- [31:33]
Abby Wambach
What do you think?
- [31:34]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, I mean, I think that the last couple of years have been interesting. We went through the first couple of years of Moon honeymoon and then we went through two years of power control struggle. We were fighting a lot like nitpicking and then we went two or three years with nothing. And then Glennon started her therapy again. So that's brought up a lot of stuff because I think that you buried stuff, I think dead inside. I think you went dead inside. And so now that you're really being true to how you feel, you are able to express yourself in certain ways that are. That is different than you did before. That it was just like either going to be your way or the kind of it's right or wrong.
- [32:21]
Abby Wambach
Right.
- [32:21]
Amanda Doyle
It was your way, which is right or it was wrong.
- [32:24]
Abby Wambach
Right.
- [32:24]
Amanda Doyle
And now you have a different way about it. And so the power and control is. It's almost like owning your discomfort with the situation rather than saying you're doing this wrong.
- [32:38]
Abby Wambach
Yes. I'm trying to regulate myself instead of controlling you to regulate me.
- [32:43]
Amanda Doyle
Yes. And you're doing an excellent job.
- [32:45]
Abby Wambach
Thank you.
- [32:46]
Amanda Doyle
Really working through it. So the issue itself is still alive, but the way that it's being handled is making it a non issue, if that makes sense.
- [32:58]
Unknown
That's so important.
- [32:59]
Amanda Doyle
Would you agree?
- [33:00]
Abby Wambach
Yes.
- [33:00]
Unknown
The gist of that, that you are trying to regulate yourself so that you're not controlling her in order to regulate yourself.
- [33:11]
Abby Wambach
That's the whole point.
- [33:12]
Unknown
So like this is something that happens all the time with kids. Right. So like I can't handle that my kid is being left out. Instead of dealing with my grief and shame and fear and projections into the future about what it means that they're being left out and all of my anxiety about that, I will control the situation. I will find other friends. I will make sure they're included, whatever it is. Because I need that situation to regulate me instead of just like dealing.
- [33:42]
Abby Wambach
Yes.
- [33:43]
Unknown
Because then it's whack a mole.
- [33:44]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [33:44]
Amanda Doyle
It's the whole shebang, I think.
- [33:46]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. I think in relationships that's the biggest thing in the entire world for me is learning how to be okay so that I can be of service to my people, not use my people to service myself than my own nervous system.
- [33:59]
Amanda Doyle
That's good.
- [34:00]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [34:01]
Amanda Doyle
You're doing good.
- [34:01]
Unknown
Yeah. And protect them because it's not. I mean, people think they're serving their people by protecting them, but really that need to protect is serving your need to feel. Okay.
- [34:17]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. Yeah. Our people are not existing just to make our not to be like, you know, cat scratching poles for us. And I don't think we really realize we're doing it.
- [34:26]
Unknown
No.
- [34:27]
Abby Wambach
But yeah, they need to know we're okay so that they can live fully based on their own desires and wants and feelings and not ours.
- [34:43]
Unknown
Here's the deal.
- [34:44]
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- [36:30]
Glennon Doyle
If you're someone who's curious about why we are the way we are, why.
- [36:35]
Amanda Doyle
We succeed, why we screw up, then.
- [36:38]
Glennon Doyle
You'Ll want to check out Armchair Expert. Hosted by Dax Shepard and Monica Padman, the show explores big, honest conversations with artists, thinkers, scientists, and cultural icons like Alex Cooper, Brad Pitt, and Monica Lewinsky, just to name a few. Together, they explore everything from identity and addiction to imposter syndrome and finding your purpose. Then on Fridays, they flip the mic.
- [37:02]
Amanda Doyle
To the listeners with Armchair Anonymous, a.
- [37:05]
Glennon Doyle
Listener driven series where real people call in with raw, funny and totally human confessions. From disastrous dates and family secrets to accidentally joining a cult, they've heard it all. If you love self reflection, big ideas, and embracing the comedic chaos of life, follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts and subscribe to armchair expert on YouTube.
- [37:36]
Unknown
Who is more likely to burst out laughing at inappropriate times?
- [37:39]
Abby Wambach
Me, for sure. 100%. All the time.
- [37:42]
Unknown
Yes. Who is more likely to forget important dates?
- [37:46]
Abby Wambach
Me, 100%. All of the time. Yes.
- [37:49]
Unknown
Okay. What is something that you are always right about?
- [37:56]
Abby Wambach
Oh, Jesus. What am I always right about? I truly don't know.
- [38:00]
Amanda Doyle
No, I know. I think you're getting a little bit too, like, bogged into the detail of it. Books just be like, just pull perspective out. It's not about a specific detail.
- [38:10]
Abby Wambach
Like emotional guidance of human beings.
- [38:14]
Amanda Doyle
I didn't say that. But yes, that's true.
- [38:16]
Abby Wambach
Like guiding the ship emotionally. Like what people need.
- [38:20]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [38:21]
Abby Wambach
Like being in touch with people's needs.
- [38:22]
Amanda Doyle
That is true. I said facts.
- [38:24]
Abby Wambach
Okay, so facts. Facts.
- [38:26]
Unknown
All right, she said facts. Whereas Abby's big picture ideas. She said remembering things you're good at. Remembering things you're good at telling stories as they actually happened in a factual manner. And she also said you're always right about grammar.
- [38:44]
Abby Wambach
That's right.
- [38:45]
Amanda Doyle
I struggled to figure something out.
- [38:47]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [38:47]
Unknown
What would she say that you are seldom right about?
- [38:50]
Amanda Doyle
I don't even remember what I answered here.
- [38:52]
Unknown
You answered correctly.
- [38:54]
Abby Wambach
Soccer.
- [38:55]
Unknown
Numbers and time.
- [38:57]
Abby Wambach
Numbers and time and dates and anything in the time and space continuum. Other continuums, spiritual continuums, emotional continuum. Yes, but time and space. Reality is not my jam.
- [39:12]
Unknown
Who is the better budget keeper?
- [39:14]
Abby Wambach
Abby.
- [39:14]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [39:15]
Unknown
What is a funny habit about you that makes Abby smile?
- [39:20]
Abby Wambach
I don't know.
- [39:22]
Amanda Doyle
Okay, come on, just think. Think about it like we're watching a movie. Oh.
- [39:26]
Abby Wambach
Oh. She Likes that I write with my fingers all the time, every important word that people say, which I always am doing.
- [39:33]
Amanda Doyle
But what's the cutest part of it?
- [39:36]
Abby Wambach
Oh, and then I. And then I erase it so I can start over.
- [39:41]
Unknown
So, like.
- [39:42]
Abby Wambach
But there's no writing because it's just my finger on my leg, but I have to erase it to start a new sentence. And that's what I do. Very good. All day. Yeah.
- [39:56]
Unknown
When you're in the car, who controls the radio?
- [39:59]
Abby Wambach
I do, because Abby's driving. But I don't do it. Well, I'm sure you mentioned that.
- [40:04]
Unknown
And who controls you controlling the radio?
- [40:06]
Abby Wambach
The children. They just yell at me about what to touch. Touch that Bluetooth. Something about connecting. Disconnect buttons. Do it faster. Volume.
- [40:16]
Unknown
Great. If you could have one superpower, what would it be?
- [40:20]
Amanda Doyle
I forgot what I said here, because this was a struggle for me.
- [40:28]
Abby Wambach
This is not right. This is not incorrect. But my first thought was I would just be everyone I love. Superpower. So I could whisper in their ear what they should do next.
- [40:38]
Unknown
So control over everyone.
- [40:41]
Amanda Doyle
Shit. That is the one.
- [40:44]
Unknown
Thank you so much.
- [40:44]
Abby Wambach
That is the one. Because I always have to remind myself on that.
- [40:47]
Amanda Doyle
Abby, what did I say?
- [40:49]
Unknown
Okay, you said so that she could be less in her head, maybe more embodied, so that maybe she would just wake up and be totally comfortable all the time.
- [40:57]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [40:58]
Unknown
And then we thought maybe, like, invisible, so she could just do her observing and not have to actually interact with people.
- [41:05]
Abby Wambach
Oh, God, those are all good. So. Yes, to all of those.
- [41:09]
Unknown
But controlling everyone that you love is more accurate.
- [41:12]
Abby Wambach
I would call it guiding. Loving. Yeah.
- [41:15]
Unknown
You would. You would call it guiding.
- [41:16]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. And I feel like. Because a lot of times a day I have to remind myself, because of my work in this area, like, that person has their own higher power. So it would be great if I was saying, that person has its own higher power. And it's you. So get in there.
- [41:30]
Unknown
You are the higher power of everyone you love. Oh, my God.
- [41:34]
Abby Wambach
That's.
- [41:34]
Amanda Doyle
I've never heard somebody say that. And it's perfect for you. And also incredible. That is my worst nightmare, is to be somebody else's higher power.
- [41:47]
Abby Wambach
No, imagine, like, our kids would be like, go down to say their prayers and be like, oh. And then I would. I would get a message that's like, oh, Emma needs some help. And then I would be able to be like, it's okay, honey. You're perfect. Blah, blah. Like, I could just like, yeah.
- [42:00]
Unknown
So I think I'm gonna get you a shape that has yhp.
- [42:04]
Abby Wambach
Your higher power.
- [42:06]
Unknown
You just fly in. Exactly. Exactly.
- [42:11]
Abby Wambach
And I want it to be like, I don't have to fly. I want to just be able to teleport my thoughts.
- [42:15]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [42:16]
Abby Wambach
You know what I mean? Yeah.
- [42:17]
Unknown
No flying. That's too active.
- [42:18]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [42:19]
Unknown
Okay. That's like my worst nightmare. When analysis. I would play an active game.
- [42:23]
Abby Wambach
Oh, no. You need to learn from your sister. You know what I say to Alice? I don't like that.
- [42:30]
Unknown
I don't feel like crawling on the ground.
- [42:31]
Abby Wambach
I don't want to play that. I don't. Alice looks at me like, oh, I'm sorry. I thought you said, I don't want to play.
- [42:38]
Amanda Doyle
And I'm like, I don't.
- [42:40]
Abby Wambach
I don't like that game.
- [42:41]
Amanda Doyle
She's like, you don't like that game?
- [42:43]
Abby Wambach
What?
- [42:44]
Unknown
How is that relevant? My mom does so much shit she hates.
- [42:48]
Abby Wambach
Exactly. Why are you telling me these things that don't matter to me? Get on the floor and crawl like a giraffe.
- [42:54]
Amanda Doyle
Does it matter that you don't like this? Aunt dei.
- [42:57]
Unknown
Okay, if you told Abby to grab you a treat from the store on the way home, what does she buy for you?
- [43:06]
Abby Wambach
I don't know. I'm suck at this game. I don't know. What do I like for treats?
- [43:10]
Amanda Doyle
You're doing great.
- [43:11]
Abby Wambach
Candy. A kombucha.
- [43:13]
Amanda Doyle
Oh, that's close.
- [43:17]
Unknown
Explain Abby. Or I can explain Abby the answer, which was illuminating and wise. Okay, so you don't know this Glennon, but what Abby has to get for you as a treat is actually two things. One, which is the thing you will think that you want, and one, which is the thing that you actually want.
- [43:38]
Abby Wambach
So the kombucha or the juice, but then also the Twizzlers?
- [43:42]
Unknown
Basically, yes. The green juice is the thing you will think that you want, but the thing you actually want is some kind of like, animal cracker or Doritos or.
- [43:51]
Abby Wambach
Chips or something like a Hostess cupcake with the cream inside.
- [43:57]
Amanda Doyle
I mean, you've never bought that in your life.
- [43:59]
Abby Wambach
Well, maybe you should bring it home every once in a while.
- [44:02]
Amanda Doyle
That's.
- [44:02]
Unknown
Oh, she's telegraphing things right now.
- [44:04]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, I love a Hostess cupcake with the cream inside. I've purchased those for myself.
- [44:09]
Abby Wambach
Yeah, there is a level of this is the thing I should have. And then you better also get me the Twizzlers. Yeah.
- [44:15]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah.
- [44:15]
Unknown
Do you even know me? Okay, one thing Glennon would never do.
- [44:19]
Abby Wambach
Is, what's something I would never do? Throw a party.
- [44:26]
Unknown
That's good.
- [44:27]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, that's true.
- [44:27]
Unknown
She said Sports.
- [44:29]
Abby Wambach
Oh, yeah. Sports. Yeah. Well, that's sad for me, but yeah.
- [44:32]
Unknown
Okay, what is something that Abby thinks would improve your life if you would only freaking do it?
- [44:41]
Abby Wambach
Maybe, like, just relax and have fun and do more joyful things and stop, like, worrying about making everything better and, like, growing and working and doing the work and doing the work. And, like, what am I working on all the time? And can you just ever fucking relax and be okay? What's the hell's the problem? That vibes.
- [45:01]
Unknown
Yes.
- [45:01]
Amanda Doyle
Yes, that's what I said.
- [45:06]
Unknown
Okay. Not many people know it, but Glennon is really good at.
- [45:12]
Abby Wambach
I have no idea.
- [45:13]
Unknown
This is really hard getting to the simple after the complicated that you're really, really good at, like, diving in and distilling really complicated things very simply. And that. That gives you great joy.
- [45:23]
Abby Wambach
Okay, but everyone knows that. That's why I'm a writer and a podcaster. That's, like, literally my whole thing.
- [45:30]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, I know, but that's right.
- [45:33]
Abby Wambach
Then, no, it's. The question was not everybody knows that. That's, like, the only thing people don't.
- [45:38]
Unknown
It's the only thing I'm good at. And tell us, do you know, I was.
- [45:41]
Abby Wambach
I was hoping for something that was hidden and, like, another thing, it would.
- [45:46]
Unknown
Be, like, if Abby was, like, writing. She's really good writing.
- [45:48]
Abby Wambach
Yeah. Or like, if I was, like, soccer. Abby's really good at soccer.
- [45:52]
Amanda Doyle
Well, okay, I will tell people this.
- [45:54]
Abby Wambach
Not many people know this.
- [45:56]
Amanda Doyle
Not many people know this, that Glennon knows all of the rules of the game of soccer, and she is not pretending.
- [46:02]
Abby Wambach
Oh, that's a good one. Thank you. That's better. Yeah. So people think that because I do the bit.
- [46:09]
Unknown
The funny stick, as it were, stick.
- [46:11]
Abby Wambach
Of, like, I don't get the soccer, that I don't know anything about sports, but actually, I know a lot about sports. That is a vehicle that I use that. That humorous. I'm an alien. I've just landed. I've never seen a soccer game. That beginner's mind of. It is something that I use as a joke to talk to people about soccer. Because when Abby and I first met and I started learning all the stories about the women on this team, and it just started to blow my mind. I promised myself I would get as many people as possible from my little world to soccer. And I felt like the middleman between people and sports is so gendered and so, like, ridiculously male and so meant to turn people away, that it would be funny to have another sort of middleman inviting people in who didn't know much, but I actually really do know what offside is. And lots of rules.
- [47:06]
Unknown
Amazing.
- [47:07]
Amanda Doyle
Probably more rules than I do. Honestly. She probably knows more rules than I do. She's like, what is that? And I'm like, I don't know. I never knew any of the rules. I just complained all the time.
- [47:18]
Abby Wambach
Just complain.
- [47:18]
Unknown
That is the rule. Complain about every call.
- [47:20]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [47:21]
Unknown
What do you talk about the most?
- [47:24]
Abby Wambach
Just family and my family. Everyone in the soap family. Yeah.
- [47:30]
Unknown
The children and patriarchy.
- [47:32]
Abby Wambach
Yes. The children and the patriarchy. Yes.
- [47:34]
Unknown
What would you say is the best thing in Abby? Her sense of time, her sense of humor, her sense of adventure or her common sense?
- [47:42]
Abby Wambach
A sense of adventure.
- [47:44]
Amanda Doyle
Yes.
- [47:45]
Unknown
What is your favorite season?
- [47:47]
Abby Wambach
Well, we don't have seasons in California, but I like all the seasons.
- [47:55]
Amanda Doyle
Have to pick one that I said.
- [47:57]
Abby Wambach
Okay. I guess I'd say fall slash winter because it's like I like the candles that are of the pumpkin and I like the idea of football in the air even though I don't want it on.
- [48:07]
Amanda Doyle
I said summer because the kids are off of school and you get to see them more. And you love that.
- [48:12]
Abby Wambach
I do. I love summer when the kids are home and don't have to go to school. You're right. And then also right after summer comes fall and then right after fall comes winter, which is Christmas, basically.
- [48:21]
Amanda Doyle
She loves the seasons because it's. We're always changing.
- [48:24]
Abby Wambach
Yeah.
- [48:25]
Amanda Doyle
There's always some sort of thing to look forward to.
- [48:28]
Abby Wambach
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
- [48:30]
Unknown
Okay, here's the last one. More than five years ago, you wrote in Untamed that you were midnight blue. A lot has changed since then. What color are you now?
- [48:45]
Amanda Doyle
Now?
- [48:46]
Abby Wambach
Purple. Fuck.
- [48:48]
Amanda Doyle
God damn it.
- [48:49]
Unknown
Amazing. Tell us why.
- [48:51]
Abby Wambach
Well, first of all, all of my. My answers are always aspirational. Okay. So like, like my writing, like if I'm writing a book about something, you can bet I have not figured out that thing yet. But in about five years I'm going to. I'm like my own self help author. I'm like pointing myself towards what I think things could be. Right.
- [49:14]
Unknown
Right.
- [49:15]
Abby Wambach
Purple. Because I feel like I'm entering a sort of time in my life where I need to be the like solid, grounded crone, matriarch of the family. Which is. Has an element to me of the like divine, feminine, royal situation. Like I need to be sitting in my sovereignty on a throne, unmoving, scepter in hand, letting the people come to me. Like I'm an oracle when I'm good of the realm. Yes. And I mean the children. Okay? I don't need anybody else coming to me like an oracle. Unless you want me to be your higher power. Well, I'll have an opt in button for that, but so purple. A touch of royal. A touch of. Listen, everybody. We did the best we could, all right? Now you go ahead and you do the best you fucking can and then come back to my throne and you tell me how that fucking goes for you. That's my vibe.
- [50:27]
Amanda Doyle
That's so good.
- [50:28]
Abby Wambach
It's quite a vibe.
- [50:29]
Unknown
Well done. Well done. I like. I like viewing you.
- [50:33]
Abby Wambach
Oh, yellow. Why did you say yellow?
- [50:35]
Amanda Doyle
I said yellow. Beige, like you're coming into.
- [50:39]
Unknown
I don't know, I just see, like, pearly, iridescent. You said.
- [50:42]
Amanda Doyle
Yeah, that's nice.
- [50:44]
Abby Wambach
Thanks, babe.
- [50:45]
Amanda Doyle
But yours, your answer was good.
- [50:47]
Abby Wambach
Okay. I love you. I think you did great.
- [50:49]
Amanda Doyle
I think I did worse.
- [50:50]
Abby Wambach
I think you did great.
- [50:51]
Unknown
Yeah, I think you all did great.
- [50:53]
Abby Wambach
Thank you, sister. That was fun.
- [50:54]
Unknown
It was very brave of you. And I feel like I learned some new things about you, which was a real treat for me.
- [50:59]
Abby Wambach
Oh, a real tr. All right, well, thanks, team. We Can Do Hard Things. We will see you back next time. You know what we should do? Let's put these questions in whatever the place is where we put things for people to find it who are in the POD squad so that they can ask their people these questions. These are good question starters for dinners and stuff.
- [51:17]
Amanda Doyle
Love it. Yay.
- [51:19]
Abby Wambach
Okay, Pod squad, we love you. We will see you back here next time. Bye.
- [51:25]
Amanda Doyle
Bye.
- [51:30]
Abby Wambach
If this podcast means something to you, it would mean so much to us if you'd be willing to take 30 seconds to do these three things. First, can you please follow or subscribe to We Can Do Hard Things. Following the POD helps you because you'll never miss an episode, and it helps us because you'll never miss an episode. To do this, just go to the We Can Do Hard Things show page on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Odyssey, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and then just tap the plus sign in the upper right hand corner or click on follow. This is the most important thing for the pod. While you're there, if you'd be willing to give us a five star rating and review and share an episode you loved with a friend, we would be so grateful. We appreciate you very much. We Can Do Hard Things is created and hosted by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle in partnership with Odyssey. Our executive producer is Jenna Wise Berman, and the show is produced by Lauren Legrasso, Allison Schott and Bill Schultz.